Until they hit the $30 mark (or less), it won't matter to these people.
Like I said -- they only see the up-front cost. Trying to make them see that such a printer will cost them *far* more in the long run is like trying to convince Glenn Beck that he's wrong -- about *anything*.
It's even worse where I work. Most of the departments *have* workgroup-class laser printers (or huge copy machines with network print capability). Many of the staff just can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses to walk down a hall to their workroom to get their printouts. Yes, it's that simple...:(
It's not as simple as you'd think (though there is no good reason it shouldn't be simple!).
See -- I work in the ITS department in a college. We strongly discourage the individual departments from purchasing inkjet printers, however, because they're "cheap", and since we're facing huge budget reductions, the departments purchase them anyway. They're then upset at the ink costs, which we warned them about. They're even more pissed when they find out we can't obtain parts to fix their cheap pieces of garbage (let alone that, even if parts were available, our time spent fixing such a POS would make it too expensive). It all boils down to short-term thinking. They *never* take into account how long they'd like the printer to work, and it's total cost of operation. They only see the initial bottom-line.
AT&T just built another in my town, and put one some miles away to cover some smaller towns (less than a few thousand people, total). Last night, I watched a friend lose a call he was in the middle of, on a brand new phone (not an iPhone). My house is only, at most, 2 or 3 miles away from the "new" tower (as the crow flies). That is not a very ringing endorsement of their service. Meanwhile, my friends and I on US Cellular and Sprint (I have Sprint) have never had any such issues...
What's worse is AT&T decided to have the local paper report on how "much cash AT&T is infusing into our market to improve service" (such as our market is -- we're a town of roughly 17k people, though we do have a medical (osteopathic) and liberal arts college in town). Nice going, AT&T...
After having just looked at it, it appears to just "call forward" to your Google Voice account. At least for Sprint (the carrier I use), it called it "conditional" call forwarding -- for busy signals or unanswered calls (otherwise calls to your mobile number ring as normal). The instructions also said Sprint won't support conditional call forwarding 'till mid-November, so if you were to enable it now, you might get charged (most likely just minutes usage) 'till they have that support in place.
It's actually a good deal for the carriers, I think. It has the potential to off-load a lot of the voice mail they'd otherwise have to handle to a third party at very little (if any) cost to them, which also reduces any support costs associated with providing voice mail...
That depends upon which specs you ignore. For example, Consumer Reports shows Apple as having the highest hardware reliability and customer satisfaction of any vendor in there most recent evaluation. Xoticpc, does not show up on that report at all. Do they use the most reliable or the least reliable brand of hard drive in their machines? What about all the other components?
Err.. You *are* an Apple "fanboi", aren't you... I realize this is a difficult concept for someone like you to understand, but Xoticpc will never show up in something like Consumer Reports. They're a reseller, NOT an OEM. Do you also expect your local computer stores are going to show up too?
As to your assertion that they might be using "sub par" parts -- Corsair, Seagate/Western Digital, Intel (for both CPU and Wireless), Kingston, nVidia/ATI, MSI, Asus, Sager -- *ALL* quality hardware (I personally don't like WD, but they still somehow get great reviews, so meh...). Seems like it's *exactly* the same parts as in the Apple machines to me (well, obviously MSI/Asus/Sager are the OEM's of the base notebooks and not individual laptop parts, but they *ARE* well known/respected brands).
If you had to read the source code for the page, your browser is broken.
So, now, Firefox is broken, eh? Yeah... you know what? UH-UH! It's poor design on Apple's part that I could search (with CTRL-F) for "Warranty" on the main MBP 17" product page and watch Firefox zoom right to an area on the page, but have NOTHING highlighted until I actually clicked on a poorly marked "Learn More" link - which was actually connected to their silly extended protection crap. Every *other* OEM page has it clearly marked as "Warranty", why not Appl... Oh, yeah, "Think Different"... "My bad".
Quit being an asshole. I thought we could have a civil conversation, but obviously you have too much of the Apple kool-aid in your system for *that* to happen...
You go find a 13" or 15" machine with 7 hour battery life, that weighs 5lbs or less, operates on a 1066 bus with a full featured Core 2 (including VT!), comes with descrete graphics, 1200x800 or better screen, Wireless N, bluetooth, and has an internal optical drive that costs less. I can't find a competitor more than $80 lower in price that meets that, and that's without throwing in the backlit keyboard, 8GB ram max (not 4), memory card reader, firewire ports, a webcam, and other non-essential "specs" and that's also without any of the software you're going to need to buy for a Windows box (OK, some people buy,/.ers know how to get other ways).
http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3551-built-msi1651id2-gt628-p-2596.html?wconfigure=yes FORCE 3551 (Built on MSI-1651-ID2 / GT628) - 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050) - Standard Dead Pixel Policy - -Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt - Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - nVidia GeForce GTS 160M 1024MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 - 4,096MB (2 SODIMMS) DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to utilize 4GB+) (Corsair, Kingston or Crucial) (8GB max) - Standard Finish - Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software - 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) - Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO) - Internal Bluetooth + EDR - Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n - Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera - Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included - Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell) - - Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's - Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher) - 1 Year Complete Care Warranty - 1 Year Parts with 2nd Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty
$1888
So, according to your comment I quoted above:
15" or better -- Check @ 15.6" 5lbs - You beat me by 1.2lbs -- the horror! 7 hours battery -- close, but your MB will not run that long, either (no matter what Apple shovel-feeds you) Full featured C2D -- Check Discrete Graphics -- Check, nVidia GTS 160M w/1GB RAM Wireless N -- Check Bluetooth - Check Internal Optical drive - check Memory card reader - check, and more functional than the one in the 15" MBP this system is competing against.
So you beat me with the battery technology and the weight. I have a better machine at $411 less.
You're also wrong about Dell's available options:
Studio 15 Laptop: COLORS Black Chainlink PROCESSORS Intel® Coreâ i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB Cache, Turbo Boost) VIDEO CARD 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570 OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit OFFICE SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 9 WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 30-Day Trial HD DISPLAY 15.6â Full High Definition (1080p) High Brightness LED Display with TrueLifeâ and Camera MEMORY 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz (8gb MAX) HARD DRIVE 500GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) OPTICAL DRIVE 8X Slot Load CD/DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive) BATTERY OPTIONS 85 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell) WIRELESS CARDS Intel 5300 Ultimate-N Half Mini Card (3x3) with MyWiFi BLUETOOTH Dell Wireless 365 Bluetooth Internal (2.1) SOUND OPTIONS High Definition Audio 2.2 KEYBOARD Back-lit Keyboard
$1284 -- 1015 LESS than the equivelent MBP 15"
You still get me by a pound (or so) of weight, but both machines pretty well meet your "requirements", WELL UNDER what Apple is asking.
Macs cost more because of OS X. Microsoft gives Windows to OEMs for practically nothing.
That's Apple's fault, not Microsoft's.
Apple has been reported to have nearly *given* various bits of hardware to schools in the past (I worked for several K-12's that received such computers ranging in prices from $50 a machine to a couple hundred per machine). Apple computers cost more because Apple marks up their parts to ridiculous levels. Why can't MS "give" away their OS if Apple is/was doing the same with hardware? Besides -- if Apple really wants more market share, why aren't they "giving" THEIR OS away like MS does? If I were a shareholder, I'd be pissed at how Apple is doing business, if the only goal was to rake in cash as fast as possible (which seems to be what every *other* shareholder is wanting out of other companies)...
Examples:
(from 17" MBP product page, since that's the page I already have open from a previous comment) $300! difference between 2.8Ghz C2D and 3.0Ghz C2D $1000!!!! difference between 4gb DDR3 and 8gb DDR3 (the HIGHEST price memory on newegg is only $779!! Is Apple fucking HIGH?!)
Other Apple PC product pages have similar examples. It's no wonder Apple is seen as being more expensive. That difference in price on the RAM alone is just crazy. Don't even think about giving me that "no one buys accessories from Apple" crap excuse. No PC OEM is that way (to Apple's extent, anyway). It's just insanity.
Of course, if it's a bargin you want you can also go to Apple's web site and buy refurbished Macs and save 10-20%.
On the flip side, like certain cars Macs also have a fairly high resale value. After a year or so you might be able to resell that Mac for half (or more) of what you paid for it. Whereas after the same period of time you might be lucky to get 20-30% of your purchase price for that Dell off eBay or Craig's list. (And you had to use a Dell, to boot!)
How is purchasing someone *elses* previously broken Apple at a "20-30% discount" a good deal? I'll buy certain things referbed (routers/switches, cable modems, some audio equipment, etc), but a computer? No thank you.
If you want a better example than Dell (I work on a campus with over 2000 Dells and we rarely have hardware issues with them, but I digress...):
HP often offers $300 to $400 off laptops over $1000/1100 "coupons" (always posted to slickdeals, if not right on their own web page). They have laptops that are *very* similar to the various MacBooks.
FORCE 3751 (Built on MSI-1722) - 17" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050) - Standard Dead Pixel Policy - Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt - Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - nVidia GeForce 9600M GT 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 - 4,096MB DDR2 800MHz KINGSTON HyperX Matched Kit - Low Latency CL5 (2 SODIMMs) Dual Channel Memory SPECIAL! - Standard Finish - 2X Blu-Ray Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) - Internal 5-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/ xD-P) - Internal Bluetooth + EDR - Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link - Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera - No TV Tuner - Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included - Smart Li-ion Battery (6-Cell) - Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's - Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher) - 3 Year Complete Care Warranty - 3 Year Parts with Next Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty
Total price was $2,182.00. Total price without extras $1884.00
I took some liberties by adding the Blu-Ray reader (it *added* $139 to the cost) and adding the three year next day shipping warranty (which ran an extra $159) I didn't see anything on the Apple page that mentioned the warranty until I finally found the "Learn More" link that explained the MacBook Pro came with a standard 1 year with 90 days free phone support. Even the basic 1 year warranty with the laptop I put together has 24/7 tech support and lifetime labor warranty. Removing the "extras" takes us down to $1884. Yes, the screen still isn't 1920x1200 (the MSI web site says it's available with a 1920x1200 screen -- the xoticpc web site just doesn't have the option), and the keyboard isn't backlit (a USELESS drain on the battery, in my opinion), The weight of the MSI is 7lbs. I couldn't find anything on the MPB 17" product page that lists the weight (even looking at the page source, which is how I had to find the warranty info -- POOR UI design Apple!). After doing a search on Apple's site, I found the 17" MBP to be 6.6lbs (which didn't come up in the search, but a link for the 15" did, and the 15" page had a link to the 17" specs -- ANOTHER POOR DESIGN, APPLE!). VERY close between the two. There is an optional 9 cell battery for the MSI which should make it last nearly as long as the MBP.
If this post does anything, it shows that you can get *extremely* close to the MBP specs (only very minor differences between the MBP 17" and the system quoted above), and while not half as expensive, you can still save a very significant amount($615, roughly, in this case) (of course, I've never been one to claim a similar PC was half the cost as the OP did, I've only ever claimed that similarly spec'ed PC's are less expensive).
My thoughts are scattered -- wish I had more time to hash this out, but with previous experience, it's unlikely this message will get read/replied to anyway...:(
Between my experiences with Extron/AMX and Crestron at work, I can tell you that Crestron will *never* have any gear in my home -- ever.
To tell a guy that just spent thousands on automation gear that he can't have the software because he's "just an end user" is crazy. I bought the hardware. I'm not leasing it. There was no "license" for how I can use the hardware. It's *MINE*. If you're not going to let me have the software to program it, you're also not going to get any cash from me.
I suspect many of the eBay dealers are using this to produce unrealistically low page counts on older printers.
Not that it matters as the early 4000 series HP's are built like tanks, and parts are still available (some via 3rd parties, which are even cheaper and just as good from what I've seen). The 4050 (not a N, though I put a JetDirect in it anyway) in my office was "born" May 1999 and is still going strong with pickup rollers being replaced as needed.
The 4000/4050's may not be the fastest printers on the market, but they print every time.:)
No harm in deploying Exchange on the back-end and using Evolution or Thunderbird or web based Exchange on the front-end.
The web-based Exchange does not work as well or have as many features as real Outlook. Where I work we have a Windows Server 2003 box set up for the sole purpose of Mac users connecting in via RDP to use Outlook.
Also how about common accessories like power adapters for 100 laptops
Our D400's, D520's, D600's, D610's, D620's, D630's, D800's, and D820's all have the same power adapter, as do the docking stations they all dock in (in fact, ONE docking station model works for all of the laptops).
and a single OS image that will work for everything?
We have two images. One for lab/classroom use, and one for faculty/staff use. Both work on *every* model PC we have. That includes the Lattitudes listed above, and includes Optiplex GX240, GX260, GX270, GX280, GX620, 745, 755, and 760's (in the case of the 760's, that'd include both the SFF and standard mid-tower models), in addition to an HP 2140 (I think that's correct) netbook.
If our ePO server is correct (and it's not, it's under-reporting because not every machine is directly managed by our department, and it doesn't include the servers which are running a different AV solution), that's just under 2300 machines on a single campus.
easier deployment of apps and policies
Being as I'm not exactly well versed on the OSX side of things, you'll have to describe what you mean here. AD and GroupPolicy take care of any policies we want to enforce on our workstations, and SMS takes care of software deployment ("self installs/on demand" installs via "Add/Remove Programs", or automatically forced installs where the client has no choice).
Howabout encryption software
TrueCrypt. OSS/Free. Rather easy to use, from what I've been forced to experience by my employer (who requires *all* employee systems to be fully encrypted with it).
However I will admit managing more than 1000 of these puppies could be challenging
I'm glad to see you admit this. According to our campus "Mac Expert" (who is rather far from that description in my eyes), every machine is hand-installed/configured (as far as software goes), and other than the units that go into a lab, they're all slightly different, and *all* software requires her touch. NONE of it can be installed post-image/deployment for whatever reason, and shockingly, she has emphatically stated that she can't even see the utility in doing so! She refuses to use MS Entourage (being as we have an Exchange server) and insists "Mail" is 'better and easier', but thus far has refused to answer my inquiry as to HOW it's 'better and easier'. This stubborn refusal only results in the Apple folks on campus having reduced functionality.
From what I've experienced watching her work, I really don't understand how she has the time to manage just 100 of them, let alone the few hundred that exist on our campus.
I do agree with you that the CAL crap with MS is stupid. In my opinion, it really only serves the purpose of raking in cash for MS. The uselessness of it is evidenced by the fact that the servers will work with as many clients as you throw at it *without* adding the CAL's. Beyond a cash conduit that leads directly to Redmond, I see absolutely no purpose to them. If MS hosted/operated/OWNED all the servers being connected to, I could understand, but since they *don't* host/operate/own any of our hardware, I don't see how they can get away with that shit.
Evolution of technology from a tethered limited device to a wireless version does not a failure make.
As to your water -- I hope you did some research and purchase water that doesn't just get bottled right from a municipal tap, as is the case with much of it...
Electricity -- I've never lived in an area where the city controlled it. It's either been a regional commercial provider or a local co-op...
Telephone... Being replaced by commercial cell towers.
Uhhh, no. In my 15-ish years as a PC tech, I've not once run into an ATX machine that didn't turn off when the power switch was held unless there was a malfunction in the power supply or the switch itself. Some machines take a few seconds longer to power off than others, but they *all* work.
I'd modify your statement to read something more along the lines of "The first three are people who like to have relationships and sex in ways that aren't historically accepted by the "Christian" based religions."
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Until they hit the $30 mark (or less), it won't matter to these people.
Like I said -- they only see the up-front cost. Trying to make them see that such a printer will cost them *far* more in the long run is like trying to convince Glenn Beck that he's wrong -- about *anything*.
It's even worse where I work. Most of the departments *have* workgroup-class laser printers (or huge copy machines with network print capability). Many of the staff just can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses to walk down a hall to their workroom to get their printouts. Yes, it's that simple... :(
It's not as simple as you'd think (though there is no good reason it shouldn't be simple!).
See -- I work in the ITS department in a college. We strongly discourage the individual departments from purchasing inkjet printers, however, because they're "cheap", and since we're facing huge budget reductions, the departments purchase them anyway. They're then upset at the ink costs, which we warned them about. They're even more pissed when they find out we can't obtain parts to fix their cheap pieces of garbage (let alone that, even if parts were available, our time spent fixing such a POS would make it too expensive). It all boils down to short-term thinking. They *never* take into account how long they'd like the printer to work, and it's total cost of operation. They only see the initial bottom-line.
[jealous]Must be nice to have FiOS, Jerk![/jealous]
AT&T just built another in my town, and put one some miles away to cover some smaller towns (less than a few thousand people, total). Last night, I watched a friend lose a call he was in the middle of, on a brand new phone (not an iPhone). My house is only, at most, 2 or 3 miles away from the "new" tower (as the crow flies). That is not a very ringing endorsement of their service. Meanwhile, my friends and I on US Cellular and Sprint (I have Sprint) have never had any such issues...
What's worse is AT&T decided to have the local paper report on how "much cash AT&T is infusing into our market to improve service" (such as our market is -- we're a town of roughly 17k people, though we do have a medical (osteopathic) and liberal arts college in town). Nice going, AT&T...
After having just looked at it, it appears to just "call forward" to your Google Voice account. At least for Sprint (the carrier I use), it called it "conditional" call forwarding -- for busy signals or unanswered calls (otherwise calls to your mobile number ring as normal). The instructions also said Sprint won't support conditional call forwarding 'till mid-November, so if you were to enable it now, you might get charged (most likely just minutes usage) 'till they have that support in place.
It's actually a good deal for the carriers, I think. It has the potential to off-load a lot of the voice mail they'd otherwise have to handle to a third party at very little (if any) cost to them, which also reduces any support costs associated with providing voice mail...
Way to take bits of my post out of context.
That depends upon which specs you ignore. For example, Consumer Reports shows Apple as having the highest hardware reliability and customer satisfaction of any vendor in there most recent evaluation. Xoticpc, does not show up on that report at all. Do they use the most reliable or the least reliable brand of hard drive in their machines? What about all the other components?
Err.. You *are* an Apple "fanboi", aren't you... I realize this is a difficult concept for someone like you to understand, but Xoticpc will never show up in something like Consumer Reports. They're a reseller, NOT an OEM. Do you also expect your local computer stores are going to show up too?
As to your assertion that they might be using "sub par" parts -- Corsair, Seagate/Western Digital, Intel (for both CPU and Wireless), Kingston, nVidia/ATI, MSI, Asus, Sager -- *ALL* quality hardware (I personally don't like WD, but they still somehow get great reviews, so meh...). Seems like it's *exactly* the same parts as in the Apple machines to me (well, obviously MSI/Asus/Sager are the OEM's of the base notebooks and not individual laptop parts, but they *ARE* well known/respected brands).
If you had to read the source code for the page, your browser is broken.
So, now, Firefox is broken, eh? Yeah... you know what? UH-UH! It's poor design on Apple's part that I could search (with CTRL-F) for "Warranty" on the main MBP 17" product page and watch Firefox zoom right to an area on the page, but have NOTHING highlighted until I actually clicked on a poorly marked "Learn More" link - which was actually connected to their silly extended protection crap. Every *other* OEM page has it clearly marked as "Warranty", why not Appl... Oh, yeah, "Think Different"... "My bad".
Quit being an asshole. I thought we could have a civil conversation, but obviously you have too much of the Apple kool-aid in your system for *that* to happen...
You go find a 13" or 15" machine with 7 hour battery life, that weighs 5lbs or less, operates on a 1066 bus with a full featured Core 2 (including VT!), comes with descrete graphics, 1200x800 or better screen, Wireless N, bluetooth, and has an internal optical drive that costs less. I can't find a competitor more than $80 lower in price that meets that, and that's without throwing in the backlit keyboard, 8GB ram max (not 4), memory card reader, firewire ports, a webcam, and other non-essential "specs" and that's also without any of the software you're going to need to buy for a Windows box (OK, some people buy, /.ers know how to get other ways).
http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3551-built-msi1651id2-gt628-p-2596.html?wconfigure=yes
FORCE 3551 (Built on MSI-1651-ID2 / GT628)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- -Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- nVidia GeForce GTS 160M 1024MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10
- 4,096MB (2 SODIMMS) DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to utilize 4GB+) (Corsair, Kingston or Crucial) (8GB max)
- Standard Finish
- Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
- 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s)
- Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell) -
- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher)
- 1 Year Complete Care Warranty - 1 Year Parts with 2nd Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty
$1888
So, according to your comment I quoted above:
15" or better -- Check @ 15.6"
5lbs - You beat me by 1.2lbs -- the horror!
7 hours battery -- close, but your MB will not run that long, either (no matter what Apple shovel-feeds you)
Full featured C2D -- Check
Discrete Graphics -- Check, nVidia GTS 160M w/1GB RAM
Wireless N -- Check
Bluetooth - Check
Internal Optical drive - check
Memory card reader - check, and more functional than the one in the 15" MBP this system is competing against.
So you beat me with the battery technology and the weight. I have a better machine at $411 less.
You're also wrong about Dell's available options:
Studio 15 Laptop:
COLORS Black Chainlink
PROCESSORS Intel® Coreâ i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB Cache, Turbo Boost)
VIDEO CARD 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit
OFFICE SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 9
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 30-Day Trial
HD DISPLAY 15.6â Full High Definition (1080p) High Brightness LED Display with TrueLifeâ and Camera
MEMORY 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz (8gb MAX)
HARD DRIVE 500GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X Slot Load CD/DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
BATTERY OPTIONS 85 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell)
WIRELESS CARDS Intel 5300 Ultimate-N Half Mini Card (3x3) with MyWiFi
BLUETOOTH Dell Wireless 365 Bluetooth Internal (2.1)
SOUND OPTIONS High Definition Audio 2.2
KEYBOARD Back-lit Keyboard
$1284 -- 1015 LESS than the equivelent MBP 15"
You still get me by a pound (or so) of weight, but both machines pretty well meet your "requirements", WELL UNDER what Apple is asking.
Macs cost more because of OS X. Microsoft gives Windows to OEMs for practically nothing.
That's Apple's fault, not Microsoft's.
Apple has been reported to have nearly *given* various bits of hardware to schools in the past (I worked for several K-12's that received such computers ranging in prices from $50 a machine to a couple hundred per machine). Apple computers cost more because Apple marks up their parts to ridiculous levels. Why can't MS "give" away their OS if Apple is/was doing the same with hardware? Besides -- if Apple really wants more market share, why aren't they "giving" THEIR OS away like MS does? If I were a shareholder, I'd be pissed at how Apple is doing business, if the only goal was to rake in cash as fast as possible (which seems to be what every *other* shareholder is wanting out of other companies)...
Examples:
(from 17" MBP product page, since that's the page I already have open from a previous comment)
$300! difference between 2.8Ghz C2D and 3.0Ghz C2D
$1000!!!! difference between 4gb DDR3 and 8gb DDR3 (the HIGHEST price memory on newegg is only $779!! Is Apple fucking HIGH?!)
Other Apple PC product pages have similar examples. It's no wonder Apple is seen as being more expensive. That difference in price on the RAM alone is just crazy. Don't even think about giving me that "no one buys accessories from Apple" crap excuse. No PC OEM is that way (to Apple's extent, anyway). It's just insanity.
Of course, if it's a bargin you want you can also go to Apple's web site and buy refurbished Macs and save 10-20%.
On the flip side, like certain cars Macs also have a fairly high resale value. After a year or so you might be able to resell that Mac for half (or more) of what you paid for it. Whereas after the same period of time you might be lucky to get 20-30% of your purchase price for that Dell off eBay or Craig's list. (And you had to use a Dell, to boot!)
How is purchasing someone *elses* previously broken Apple at a "20-30% discount" a good deal? I'll buy certain things referbed (routers/switches, cable modems, some audio equipment, etc), but a computer? No thank you.
If you want a better example than Dell (I work on a campus with over 2000 Dells and we rarely have hardware issues with them, but I digress...):
HP often offers $300 to $400 off laptops over $1000/1100 "coupons" (always posted to slickdeals, if not right on their own web page). They have laptops that are *very* similar to the various MacBooks.
Well, this isn't a perfect match (NO PC OEM makes a perfect match), but it's closer than the OP:
http://www.xoticpc.com/force-3751-built-msi1722-p-2500.html?wconfigure=yes
Configured as follows:
FORCE 3751 (Built on MSI-1722)
- 17" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Coreâ2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- nVidia GeForce 9600M GT 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10
- 4,096MB DDR2 800MHz KINGSTON HyperX Matched Kit - Low Latency CL5 (2 SODIMMs) Dual Channel Memory SPECIAL!
- Standard Finish
- 2X Blu-Ray Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- 500GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s)
- Internal 5-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/ xD-P)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (6-Cell)
- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit + Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Coupon w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Microsoft Office 2007 SBE - (Word/Excel/Outlook/PowerPoint/Publisher)
- 3 Year Complete Care Warranty - 3 Year Parts with Next Day Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty
Total price was $2,182.00.
Total price without extras $1884.00
I took some liberties by adding the Blu-Ray reader (it *added* $139 to the cost) and adding the three year next day shipping warranty (which ran an extra $159) I didn't see anything on the Apple page that mentioned the warranty until I finally found the "Learn More" link that explained the MacBook Pro came with a standard 1 year with 90 days free phone support. Even the basic 1 year warranty with the laptop I put together has 24/7 tech support and lifetime labor warranty. Removing the "extras" takes us down to $1884. Yes, the screen still isn't 1920x1200 (the MSI web site says it's available with a 1920x1200 screen -- the xoticpc web site just doesn't have the option), and the keyboard isn't backlit (a USELESS drain on the battery, in my opinion), The weight of the MSI is 7lbs. I couldn't find anything on the MPB 17" product page that lists the weight (even looking at the page source, which is how I had to find the warranty info -- POOR UI design Apple!). After doing a search on Apple's site, I found the 17" MBP to be 6.6lbs (which didn't come up in the search, but a link for the 15" did, and the 15" page had a link to the 17" specs -- ANOTHER POOR DESIGN, APPLE!). VERY close between the two. There is an optional 9 cell battery for the MSI which should make it last nearly as long as the MBP.
If this post does anything, it shows that you can get *extremely* close to the MBP specs (only very minor differences between the MBP 17" and the system quoted above), and while not half as expensive, you can still save a very significant amount($615, roughly, in this case) (of course, I've never been one to claim a similar PC was half the cost as the OP did, I've only ever claimed that similarly spec'ed PC's are less expensive).
My thoughts are scattered -- wish I had more time to hash this out, but with previous experience, it's unlikely this message will get read/replied to anyway... :(
Between my experiences with Extron/AMX and Crestron at work, I can tell you that Crestron will *never* have any gear in my home -- ever.
To tell a guy that just spent thousands on automation gear that he can't have the software because he's "just an end user" is crazy. I bought the hardware. I'm not leasing it. There was no "license" for how I can use the hardware. It's *MINE*. If you're not going to let me have the software to program it, you're also not going to get any cash from me.
I suspect many of the eBay dealers are using this to produce unrealistically low page counts on older printers.
Not that it matters as the early 4000 series HP's are built like tanks, and parts are still available (some via 3rd parties, which are even cheaper and just as good from what I've seen). The 4050 (not a N, though I put a JetDirect in it anyway) in my office was "born" May 1999 and is still going strong with pickup rollers being replaced as needed.
The 4000/4050's may not be the fastest printers on the market, but they print every time. :)
Why are you not using MS Entourage?
No harm in deploying Exchange on the back-end and using Evolution or Thunderbird or web based Exchange on the front-end.
The web-based Exchange does not work as well or have as many features as real Outlook. Where I work we have a Windows Server 2003 box set up for the sole purpose of Mac users connecting in via RDP to use Outlook.
Also how about common accessories like power adapters for 100 laptops
Our D400's, D520's, D600's, D610's, D620's, D630's, D800's, and D820's all have the same power adapter, as do the docking stations they all dock in (in fact, ONE docking station model works for all of the laptops).
and a single OS image that will work for everything?
We have two images. One for lab/classroom use, and one for faculty/staff use. Both work on *every* model PC we have. That includes the Lattitudes listed above, and includes Optiplex GX240, GX260, GX270, GX280, GX620, 745, 755, and 760's (in the case of the 760's, that'd include both the SFF and standard mid-tower models), in addition to an HP 2140 (I think that's correct) netbook.
If our ePO server is correct (and it's not, it's under-reporting because not every machine is directly managed by our department, and it doesn't include the servers which are running a different AV solution), that's just under 2300 machines on a single campus.
easier deployment of apps and policies
Being as I'm not exactly well versed on the OSX side of things, you'll have to describe what you mean here. AD and GroupPolicy take care of any policies we want to enforce on our workstations, and SMS takes care of software deployment ("self installs/on demand" installs via "Add/Remove Programs", or automatically forced installs where the client has no choice).
Howabout encryption software
TrueCrypt. OSS/Free. Rather easy to use, from what I've been forced to experience by my employer (who requires *all* employee systems to be fully encrypted with it).
However I will admit managing more than 1000 of these puppies could be challenging
I'm glad to see you admit this. According to our campus "Mac Expert" (who is rather far from that description in my eyes), every machine is hand-installed/configured (as far as software goes), and other than the units that go into a lab, they're all slightly different, and *all* software requires her touch. NONE of it can be installed post-image/deployment for whatever reason, and shockingly, she has emphatically stated that she can't even see the utility in doing so! She refuses to use MS Entourage (being as we have an Exchange server) and insists "Mail" is 'better and easier', but thus far has refused to answer my inquiry as to HOW it's 'better and easier'. This stubborn refusal only results in the Apple folks on campus having reduced functionality.
From what I've experienced watching her work, I really don't understand how she has the time to manage just 100 of them, let alone the few hundred that exist on our campus.
I do agree with you that the CAL crap with MS is stupid. In my opinion, it really only serves the purpose of raking in cash for MS. The uselessness of it is evidenced by the fact that the servers will work with as many clients as you throw at it *without* adding the CAL's. Beyond a cash conduit that leads directly to Redmond, I see absolutely no purpose to them. If MS hosted/operated/OWNED all the servers being connected to, I could understand, but since they *don't* host/operate/own any of our hardware, I don't see how they can get away with that shit.
Bah -- I've rambled on long enough. Ta!
I always thought it was : "On Track, On Time, and On Budget -- Pick two"?
Evolution of technology from a tethered limited device to a wireless version does not a failure make.
As to your water -- I hope you did some research and purchase water that doesn't just get bottled right from a municipal tap, as is the case with much of it...
Electricity -- I've never lived in an area where the city controlled it. It's either been a regional commercial provider or a local co-op...
Telephone ... Being replaced by commercial cell towers.
Uhhh, no. In my 15-ish years as a PC tech, I've not once run into an ATX machine that didn't turn off when the power switch was held unless there was a malfunction in the power supply or the switch itself. Some machines take a few seconds longer to power off than others, but they *all* work.
So, then, you didn't "break in" to anything. You accidentally dialed a number that happened to belong to the military.
Wouldn't happen to be Truman State University, would it?
I guess I'm failing to see what is broken. Everything looks good to me. I can even see the subject lines on each post...
How can you "not know", unless you put your head in the sand when you look at office supply web sites/go to any store with office supplies?
I mean, REALLY?
http://tinyurl.com/pv534w
www.newegg.com part number N82E16820148240. 9.99, free shipping, and no tax. 5 egg rating @ 15 reviews.
These chairs aren't as nice/comfortable as they're marketed to be. I've had to sit on one for the last three years and am growing to hate the thing. :(
Contrary to your belief, homosexual "relations" are *not* historically frowned upon -- See any number of empires in antiquity: Romans, Greeks, etc.
See : Clicky!
I'd modify your statement to read something more along the lines of "The first three are people who like to have relationships and sex in ways that aren't historically accepted by the "Christian" based religions."