Starbucks Drops T-Mobile For AT&T

stoolpigeon writes "Ars reports that Starbucks is replacing T-Mobile with AT&T as their Wi-Fi provider. AT&T broadband customers will be able to access the service for free. Starbucks card users will get 2 hours a day free. 2-hour, daily, and monthly rates will be lower than they were with T-Mobile. Starbucks says that their previously announced deal to tie in with iTunes will continue under AT&T. For now AT&T isn't offering free Wi-Fi to iPhone users, but says it expects to accommodate them soon. Quoting the article: 'The companies didn't specify exactly when the rollout would begin, only saying that it would take place this spring... [The company plans] to install all new equipment at Starbucks as part of this agreement, so the changeover won't be as simple as flipping a switch.'"

Comments

Hooray?

[Arclight17]

If I want wireless while I'm out and about, I go to Panera or a local cafe that offers it for free....
So BFD if it changes!
I use http://www.wififreespot.com/ to find free wifi when I'm away from home. (No, I don't work for them or get money for it :)

Re:Hooray?

[ScentCone]

If you RTFA, you'll see that people who use one of those Starbucks cards at the register (which you can fill by dropping some cash in it once in a while) will get 2 hours of no-extra-charge WiFi while they're there. Sure you can be a parasite at Panera without buying anything, but it's fairly bad form. Starbucks will get clobbered on bandwidth, but they'll sell some more coffee, and they'll earn a little interest on the $5 everyone will have sitting on those pre-loaded cards.

Re:Hooray?

[Divebus]

Of course! How else would you order a double shot half-caf skinny almond latte with your iPhone before you get there?

Re:Hooray?

[tirerim]

How do you get to that website when you don't have wireless access? Seriously, free wifi is great, but unless you plan carefully in advance, it's not always easy to find. Starbucks, on the other hand, is everywhere, so I'm glad that on the rare occasions that I'm willing to pay for wireless it will be cheaper. ($4 for two hours is about on the upper end of what I'm willing to pay; I still want to see a micropayments model, where I can buy 15 minutes for 50 cents. At that point, it would be worth it just to quickly check my email and look something up online.)

Re:Hooray?

[tony1343]

I agree, I go to a Panera. Actually, in the city I live in, the two closest Starbucks to me are both right next to a Panera. People sit in Starbucks and use Panera's WiFi. The one Starbucks is by a University. From within the Starbucks you can pick up multiple free WiFi signals. I do not understand how Starbucks can justify charging. Who actually pays for this? I will simply go somewhere where it is free (and there are multiple other coffee shops that have free WiFi in my city). I always thought this was because they were locked into a contract from before places started offering WiFi and they would eventually offer it for free. Turns out not; they're just idiots (at least in places where there are free signals available).

Re:Hooray?

[Arclight17]

Blackberry to find the wifi.
Coffee to refresh the brain.
Then computer to check email, look up article, send documents, or whatever...

Re:Hooray?

[Hadlock]

That's pretty bad ass about the card. I typically buy a NYT every day at lunch - now I can eat my (bag) lunch at SB and (hopefully meet the minimum purchase on the card) and surf the web.

Re:Hooray?

[amRadioHed]

Why be a parasite? Panera has coffee too. I'm in total agreement with the OP, any coffee shop worth spending any time in already has free wifi. Who needs Starbucks?

Re:Hooray?

[EggyToast]

Places like Baltimore, which have no good coffee shops. There's an area near my work that has 1 starbucks and 3 local shops. The 3 local shops serve bad coffee and have a horrible attitude, but offer free wireless. Unsurprisingly, no one there is ever using a laptop. At starbucks, where you have to pay to use it? Packed. Consistently packed, at that, with paying wireless users.

Maybe it's cos they make your coffee, however you like it, and still smile about it (no eye rolling or snooty remarks). Maybe it's a consistent cup of coffee (consistency is worth something to some people). I've been places where starbucks is low rung on the ladder (the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities campus is a great example), but in a lot of places they provide a service that no one else wants to provide (custom coffee with a smile). That's worth something to a lot of people.

Re:Hooray?

[clarkkent09]

The only reason I go to starbucks (and unfortunately pay for the wireless) is that where i live they are the only 24 hour coffee shops and call me crazy but i get the most work done at a coffee shop late at night. In fact I get more done in about 3 hours (midnight to 3am or so) than i would if i was working in the office for 8 hours. I know its not everybody's cup of tee (coffee?), but hooray indeed from me if it means i'll be paying less than t-mobile overpriced service.

Re:Hooray?

[kithrup]

It's not clear from TFA whether the card they are referring to is the gift card, or the Starbuck's-branded credit card. My money (pardon the pun) is on the latter.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, but why wouldn't I go to any of the other coffee shops in my city? They offer better coffee, same-or-cheaper prices, and indefinite free wifi.

Anybody who knows the first thing about coffee or wifi will tell you that going to Starbucks at all is bad form. You're just paying more for the green logo. It's the Windows 95 of coffee shops: known for ubiquity, not low price or quality.

Re:Hooray?

[amRadioHed]

That's true, I guess I'm just lucky to live within a half mile of about 5 really good local shops with free wi-fi, along with the obligatory 2 Starbucks which I've never had to bother with.

I've lived in other places which weren't so lucky, but Panara was still available in those places too.

Re:Hooray?

[AKAImBatman]

TFA links here: https://www.starbucks.com/card/

That's the pre-paid "gift" card, not the branded credit card. So unless Ars is confused (possible), wireless users may find themselves reloading their pre-paid cards on a regular basis. Meanwhile, Starbucks makes mucho-dinero on the "float" of the money.

FWIW, Starbucks often runs deals where you get a free bag of coffee beans if you load up your pre-paid card with $20. This is probably cheaper for them, and far more encouraging for their customers.

Re:Hooray?

[gad_zuki!]

>Sure you can be a parasite at Panera without buying anything,

You might find the definition of parasite to be interesting when it comes to coffee shops.

I read a study (or perhaps a well written rant) about how places that offer unlimited wifi tend to do much, much worse than places that dont. Why? Because people will turn a table into their office and fill up all the seats, thus providing a big disincentive for people to actually go in there and drink coffee and buy a baked good.

I live in a major city and I can picture all the free-wifi places in my neighborhood and I absolutely hate them all. Theyre all packed with kids/students who are myspace addicts and your 9-5'er doing work. There are no free tables. And the best part is that these people are there ALL DAY and I'm sure barely spend 10 dollars, if that. In fact the big free wifi place here recently went out of business. I dont know how they stayed in business. You had 15 people there taking all the seats for hours and buying a 3 dollar product!

So it turns out that if you want to stay in business and sell coffee you need to not turn your shop into a laptop hangout. Even starbucks knows this. They can easily foot any bandwidth cost but they would know their shop would turn into a 'business center' in no time and that will hurt them badly in the end. Instead they want you to buy product and get the hell out. If you need wifi its there but you'll need to pay. Interesting that they are going with the starbucks card approach.

Interesting stuff. Panera suffers from this but your typical panera is much larger than your typical starbucks and all the noise doesnt make it conducive to getting things done like a coffeehouse does.

Re:Hooray?

[metlin]

To answer you, Starbucks is charging because making it free will only make more people flock there for the wrong reasons. Starbucks tries hard to be open yet picky about its customers (notice their prices, compared to say, McDonalds?). It's that fine balance.

And in most cities, Starbucks are usually too crowded - too many people loitering around for the wifi would only make it worse.

If you are really desperate, just buy an EVDO card from one of the providers, and you can have Internet wherever you want (well, almost). And if you are like me, on the road a lot, it is worth its weight in gold.

Re:Hooray?

[Falstius]

The other week I missed my bus so decided to take refuge from the cold in the Starbucks across the way, bought a coffee and tried play with my new internet tablet for half an hour. Turns out Starbucks doesn't have free wifi. I won't be going back. It is bad enough that the coffee is mediocre, but no wifi??

Re:Hooray?

[AndGodSed]

Oh how I wish to live where free wifi is common! Here, even if you visit a coffee shop its a paid for service, or with a 10mb cap...

sigh

Re:Hooray?

[Zemran]

any coffee shop worth spending any time in already has free wifi.

I am sitting in the coffee shop of the art gallery in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, using the free WiFi... Where is Starbucks? (O.K. we have got SB here but who needs it?). As you say, every decent coffee shop now has free WiFi...

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Seattle. There are easily 2 dozen coffee shops within 10 blocks of my apartment, and every one of them except Starbucks has free wifi. The two best places (neither of them Starbucks, of course) have huge rooms of tables for laptop users. Sure, people come in from time to time and use the wifi without paying, but it's not that common.

Free wifi is a competitive advantage. For a while, my company (employee count at the time: 2) didn't even have an office, and simply worked from coffee shops. If you don't have free wifi, we're not going to hang around and drink your coffee all day -- it's not like you don't have competition.

I'm not alone here -- this sounds just like what Joel wrote about it in his book:

That's a childish approach to strategy. It reminds me of independent booksellers, who said "why should I make it comfortable for people to read books in my store? I want them to buy the books!" And then one day Barnes and Nobles puts couches and cafes in the stores and practically begged people to read books in their store without buying them. Now you've got all these customers sitting in their stores for hours at a time, mittengrabben all the books with their filthy hands, and the probability that they find something they want to buy is linearly proportional to the amount of time they spend in the store, and even the dinkiest Barnes and Nobles superstore in Iowa City rakes in hundreds of dollars a minute while the independent booksellers are going out of business. Honey, Shakespeare and Company on Manhattan's Upper West Side did not close because Barnes and Nobles had cheaper prices, it closed because Barnes and Nobles had more human beings in the building.

The store with the best cup of coffee in Seattle also has a big room with free wifi. People don't go there for the wifi -- they go there for the coffee. It's just convenient that there's a good place to work. Maybe if you have ho-hum coffee like Starbucks you'd have problems with nonpaying customers. But for the shops offering a quality product, it's not a problem.

Imagine the nicest steakhouse in your city. Do they have a problem with people coming, getting a small side salad, and taking up a table for 2 hours? Not hardly -- but McDonald's might. If you have a quality product, you don't need to nickel-and-dime your customers to keep them paying or leaving.

Re:Hooray?

[QuantumG]

It all began with the death of table service. Was a time when the waiter would kindly ask people if they wanted another coffee or a snack at regular intervals.. if the customer refused, say, 3 times, the waiter would ask them to either order something or leave - this isn't a library.

But hey, that was back when your coffee didn't come in a paper cup.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is very much the case in Tokyo. The company that I work for is the largest WISP in Japan, yet very few people have heard of us. The reason is that there is no advertising at the hotspot locations. When the service first rolled out 6 years ago, there used to be little signs telling you that the service was provided at the shop (kind of like the ones T-Mobile has/had at Starbucks in the U.S.), but shops quickly discovered they had a problem with wireless users taking up seats for hours at end. As such, all the signs were removed. We still provide service at all of the same places (and I've witnessed first-hand how people "in the know" abuse it), but there is no advertising any more.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's more mentality in the restaurants in the United States.

In Europe (in Vienna specifically, famous for it's cafes) you could spend several hours reading a newspaper or talking with friends. In restaurants, you can talk with friends after the main dish. Maybe order a desert, maybe not. Probably order a drink. Since restaurants were historically one of the highest profit businesses -- this lounging mentality has never hurt them (obviously).

Its a culture shock in America, when you're done your meal, you practically barraged by your waiter to order a desert or a drink. Every 3-5 minutes. And if you don't -- they practically chase you out after 10 minutes. Pretty rude after eating a meal and you just want to relax. I had this happen to me in places that were 90% empty even - it's just ingrained in the serving staff -- two different cultures.

As for the wifi -- that's easy. The internet is not a social activity in the traditional sense that adds to the atmosphere around you -- you're zoning out onto your computer screen and become oblivious to everything and everyone around you. It's a social/antisocial activity at the same time and that is the clash between say, a cafe atmosphere and people browsing the net.

If worse went to worse, I would just have print up something like coasters that had a unique code printed on each to get another 10/15/30 minutes of surfing time. Want more surfing time? Order another drink. Simple, polite, and still treating the customer with respect. Either that or have no wifi and just a couple of pay-for internet kiosks. Same thing.

Re:Hooray?

[QuantumG]

Riight. Can you please give me a list of restaurants in the US where you've gotten this treatment? Because I often have to yell to get service like that. I especially hate the 10 to 15 minutes it often takes between me asking for the bill and them delivering it.. only to walk away before I can give them my credit card.. so I have to wait another 5 to 10 minutes.. then they take another 5 to 10 minutes to return the bill and then I get the joy of playing the "how much is 15% of that" game (which you have to add even if the meal and the service was terrible, otherwise you're a prick) and then, after I make my mark, I'm finally free to leave. Average time from asking for the bill and getting out of the freakin' restaurant? 20 minutes or so, but sometimes 30.

Re:Hooray?

[KDR_11k]

Imagine the nicest steakhouse in your city. Do they have a problem with people coming, getting a small side salad, and taking up a table for 2 hours?

Depends on how many customers they get. I regularly go to a pretty good and popular restaurant (fairly cheap too) and during peak times you'll have a hard time getting a free seat (not just table, during peak times all seats are taken and families will regularly split themselves across several tables), if someone took a table for two hours during those times that'd make all the people waiting for a seat pretty angry and would probably cause a few lost sales. Of course if that was during the off-times noone would care.

Re:Hooray?

[blackest_k]

I wish it was that easy here, the only place with free wifi, that'll be mcdonalds.
I just love the ambiance...

Re:Hooray?

[MightyYar]

Yup... I live in NYC - a pretty big city :) The free Wifi is now restricted to McDonalds, the new Juan Valdez chain, and a few holdouts. When you pay $20,000/month in rent for a 1000 sq ft store, you can't have people camping out with their laptops. DTUT just closed up shop on the Upper East Side, and the only other free Wifi shop just pulled the plug on their router. This will be very welcome in NYC, where Starbucks are located every 3 blocks and already serve as the public restrooms.

Too bad their coffee is burned-tasting. Not horrid if you go for cream and sugar, but a bit disappointing to us black-coffee drinkers. Still better than the "improved" brown cardboard water at McDonalds! :)

Re:Hooray?

[MightyYar]

LOL on the credit card thing... same thing happens to me all the time. It mostly irritates me when I'm alone.

Just have it out when they bring the bill and don't even let them put the bill down.

They are assuming that you want to look over the bill... not a bad assumption if you've ever sat next to a table full of senior citizens.

Don't ever eat in Europe. The servers are apparently paid by the hour and not based on tips, so they sort of disappear when it's time to get your bill. I think you would sit there all night if you don't go chasing them down. And indeed, customers seem to WANT to sit there all night - all hail cultural differences. No wonder they feel "rushed out" in the US.

Re:Hooray?

[mtmra70]

My Panera has tons of people that use it to conduct meetings, hog tables, etc. Of course there is usually a line out the door for people ordering food, so they aren't exactly hurting either.

Re:Hooray?

[Jellybob]

Starbucks coffee is indeed consistant. It's consistantly a huge jug of muddy piss, which contains next to no actual coffee.

Really, what is it with the Americans and their "quantity is better then quality" attitude to anything you can consume?

Re:Hooray?

[RulerOf]

McDonald's might. If you have a quality product, you don't need to nickel-and-dime your customers to keep them paying or leaving.

I see you have never had McDonald's flapjacks. Best microwaved pancakes. Evar.

Re:Hooray?

[Jellybob]

You're right in saying that waiting staff over here are paid by the hour, but generally they still rely on tips to make a decent wage - most of them are working minimum wage, at least in the UK.

However, we also have the good sense not to pay a tip if the service was crap - although we do offset that by paying a good tip if the service was excellent. I never managed to understand the theory that people somehow "deserve" a tip just for doing their job.

Re:Hooray?

[Kugrian]

Agreed. Can see the grandparents point, but seriously, Starbucks coffee tastes like shit.

Re:Hooray?

[word munger]

Have you ever tried Panera coffee? It's worse. It's watered down, and there's absolutely no flavor to it.

Re:Hooray?

[geminidomino]

The 3 local shops serve bad coffee and have a horrible attitude, but offer free wireless.

As opposed to Starbucks, which serves expensive bad coffee, has a horrible attitude, then charges you for wireless?

They aren't at starbucks for the coffee. They're there for the oxymoronic "hipster cred".

Re:Hooray?

[papasui]

Dumb question, when you say Panera are you refering to Panera Bread? Those just started showing up here recently in Wisconsin.

Re:Hooray?

[iocat]

Panera saved my life (well, my job anyway) once when I was in the bowels on Tennessee a few years ago and there was simply no Internet access to be found (not at Starbucks, not at the library, and certainly not at Grandma's). I think I bought like six loaves of bread, I was so thankful. Since then, if I see one (they're not that common in CA), I stop there, generally. Their free wifi earned them a customer for life. I think this program is geat, esp. since you can fill a starbucks card with cash, so it should be pretty anonymous surfing (unless you'll still need a login/pw).

Re:Hooray?

[mrcparker]

So, why not just go to the other coffee shops then? Oh, you just want to bitch about Starbucks!

Re:Hooray?

[petecarlson]

been to The Grind in Fells Point? Good coffee and good Wi-Fi. Drinking a cup right now. No Starbucks though. Most of us won't stand for that on the FP side of the line.

Re:Hooray?

[Shakrai]

Starbucks will get clobbered on bandwidth

They could pay for a OC-192 with the markup they are making on their coffee ;)

Well, maybe not that extreme, but I'm sure that they did studies proving that whatever the bandwidth costs is more then made up for by people sitting there and buying products. Bandwidth is cheap. All the more so if they have a nationwide deal and AT&T is bringing the pipes in.

Re:Hooray?

[aclarke]

There are two schools of thought for eating out. Let's call them the American way and the European way.

In the American way, you sit down, eat your meal, get your bill, and leave. The wait staff is there to get you what you want, and mostly to do it quickly. "Moving tables" is encouraged, and most Americans don't like or want to sit down and wait a long time for anything. They are there to eat, and to get out.

In the European way, you sit down, are brought what you want, and are not pressured for what you want to do next. Your next stage of the meal may not come for another half hour, but that's OK because you are there to enjoy your afternoon or evening, and enjoy your time with family and friends. You may sit down after the meal with a coffee or glass of port, and not be asked anything by the wait staff for maybe 45 minutes, unless it appears that you want more of something. You certainly will not be brought your bill before you ask for it, as the wait staff does not want you to feel that you are being rushed out the door. That would not be relaxing.

When I spend a bit of time in Europe and then come back to North America, I find the attitude in most restaurants, even "higher end" ones, to be rushed and not that relaxing. When my steak is arriving 5 seconds after I'm done my salad, it just doesn't feel right. On the other hand, if you are used to that, and you go to a "European" style restaurant, you may feel like it's too slow and people aren't attentive to your needs.

Your commentary was responding to poor service. When you ask for your bill and it takes 15 minutes to get it, that's poor service. The grandparent was referring to feeling rushed when they're in a restaurant in North America. That's not "good service", that's just being rushed. But it's what most Americans (including you, most likely, and that's just fine) want, so that's how most restaurants are. It's what I want too, when I'm in a rush :-)

Re:Hooray?

[ScentCone]

The other week I missed my bus so decided to take refuge from the cold in the Starbucks across the way, bought a coffee and tried play with my new internet tablet for half an hour. Turns out Starbucks doesn't have free wifi. I won't be going back. It is bad enough that the coffee is mediocre, but no wifi??

I know it's too much trouble to actually read the article and everything, but how about reading the comment to which you just replied? The point is that you CAN get free WiFi there as a coffee-buying customer. That's what this new deal is all about.

Re:Hooray?

[MightyYar]

In the US, the "minimum wage" for wait staff is actually lower than the minimum wage for everyone else because it is assumed that they will make their money with tips. They only make about $2/hr in wages - which is effectively nothing. Thus, not leaving a tip is like asking them to serve you for free. That is why we tip, even if the service is not excellent. Hot food delivered to my table is always worth SOMETHING, even if not the full 15-20%. Hell, in a diner or really low-cost place, I'll leave a lot more than 20% just because the food bill is so low that I don't know how the waitress will make any money, and I figure that they need it a lot more than I do. I always feel weird leaving a measly $1 tip on a $5 bill (say, coffee and a bagel) - but that's actually a really good tip by the 20% rule of thumb.

Re:Hooray?

[afidel]

If you are eating at a higher end restaurant and you feel rushed then the staff is most certainly NOT doing its job right and MY tip would definitely reflect that, and I'd probably inform the maitre'de/head waiter. Of course by higher end I'm thinking $100+ per plate. I think one of the big causes of the differences is that many Americans don't cook at home anymore and so the restaurants have to turn over tables in order to serve all their clients whereas in Europe eating out is much more a special occasion thing and so the potential number of patrons is lower.

Re:Hooray?

[SethJohnson]

Chiang Mai? Chiang Mai is a warzone. You bringing any weapons? No? You aren't changing nothing.

Rambo

Re:Hooray?

[QCompson]

Starbucks coffee is indeed consistant. It's consistantly a huge jug of muddy piss, which contains next to no actual coffee. I have a hard time believing you have ever been to a Starbucks. Their coffee may not be the best, but it's certainly not weak.

Re:Hooray?

[crimsun]

Try Caribou Coffee.

Re:Hooray?

[cashman73]

Starbucks is alright,... not great, but certainly decent coffee. But I actually prefer the more localized coffee shops versus the national chains like Starbucks. In Pittsburgh, stop by Caribou Coffee; in Flagstaff, Arizona, go to Late for the Train. Both are superior to Starbucks, with free wi-fi.

Re:Hooray?

[steveo777]

That's a pretty good point. I was talking with a Caribou (very big in Minnesota, I prefer it to SB, and they have free wifi) executive some years ago and she mentioned that any coffee shop can take on Starbucks, Caribou, Dunn Bros as long as they have something worthwhile to offer. This is why you see a lot of corner coffee shops in college towns.

Personally, I have no qualms about ordering a standard cup of coffee at a free wifi hotspot and surfing for an hour. If it's not crowded then I don't feel bad, they made a buck, and probably a return customer.

Re:Hooray?

[cashman73]

Uh, yeah,.. Panera refers to Panera Bread. They're almost on every street corner here in Pittsburgh (but there's none in Arizona). Good food, and good wi-fi. Haven't tried their coffee, though.

Re:Hooray?

[ckaminski]

I've got a dunkin donuts down the street, a starbucks a mile away, and if I'm not brewing my own dunkin' beans, I'm buying at Coffee Sensations, which has an unbelievable selection of hot coffee on tap, REAL Kona beans, hot food, free wifi and a dining area uncluttered with 100's of useless branded trinkets blocking the way and making an already crowded store less appealing.

Starbucks might be hip if it wasn't for the crass commercialism...

How much of every cup of starbucks coffee is advertising?

Re:Hooray?

[Falstius]

If I have to have a special prepaid card for the coffee just to use the wifi, it isn't free. It is lock-in. Free would be including a 1 use code on the receipt with every purchase.

Re:Hooray?

[rtilghman]

Input the address info you find for a Directory listing into Google Maps or Mapquest to find the location on a map. For real?!? I mean, they couldn't just write a freaking definition and set-up their own mash-up with google maps? What kind of wi-fi organization is this, Mennonites for Free Internet?

Ridiculous... hunt for addresses in NY and then type them into google maps. It's like the freaking dark ages!

-rt

Re:Hooray?

[ScentCone]

it isn't free

Other than not costing you anything.

It is lock-in

Who's locked in? Just go away, and use someone else's bandwidth. You're not locked into anything. This is their way of keeping their network resources tied to their customers, not to just anyone to whom a paper reciept is handed on the way out of door. It's not a public service, it's a coffee vendor providing something that many of their customers want, at no charge.

Are you really so worried about tying up $10 in a card? If you're that tight, you have absolutely no excuse for irresponsibly blowing $1.50 on a cup of coffee in the first place.

Re:Hooray?

[mcsqueak]

They aren't at starbucks for the coffee. They're there for the oxymoronic "hipster cred".

Hipster cred... a starbucks? You almost made me spit tea all over my keyboard. Starbucks hasn't been cool in years. You really haven't seen people trying harder for "hipster cred" then those that go to "Stumptown coffee" in Portland, Oregon. You'd think Jesus had come down and roasted the coffee himself the way people talk about it. It's "ok", but doesn't seem to me to be really better then anyplace else, other than being a local company.

As for Wifi, I never go to Starbucks when I need to work on my laptop because they charge for it. It's pretty annoying to me, really... but I guess enough people pay that it's worthwhile to them to keep charging for it.

Re:Hooray?

[ckaminski]

During a recent crazy snowstorm up in the metro Boston area, I spent four or five hours camped out in a Bertucci's eating, drinking, having coffee, surfing the net on my evdo card, and doing work on my english final. I get more "work" done out of the office than in it.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do. I'm sick of going into Starbucks to sit for a minute while I drink my coffee and never being able to find a spot. You'll have people with laptops who have decided to turn it into their personal office space while they nurse a coffee for 4 hours. Go work at your home/dorm room.

Re:Hooray?

[cHiphead]

Find a Caribou Coffee, its miles beyond Starbucks in quality even if its the same corporate froofy bs experience. Albeit, if you have a dunkin donuts with wifi, might as well save $2 on a cup of coffee and go there, their stuff aint too bad.

Re:Hooray?

[InsaneProcessor]

There are two other good coffee houses where I live that have free WIFI. Why pay for it?

Re:Hooray?

[CottonThePirate]

Remember if it's not 100%, it's not Kona Coffee. Brought to you by you Hawaii County coffee police. Seriously though I important Dunkin Donuts coffee, it costs as much as Kona here on Hawaii, but I like my bland swill!

Re:Hooray?

[zdickinson]

"I read a study (or perhaps a well written rant)" Well, I read a study or perhaps it was this post, that said shops that offer unlimited free wifi do much better than those that don't. Seems like our facts are about the same.

Re:Hooray?

[plien]

Actually in my town, Starbucks is cheaper than Dunkin Donuts for regular drip coffee. A medium at Dunkin Donuts is $2.19, while a medium at Starbucks is $1.89.

Re:Hooray?

[IronChef]

It seems like whenever I am in need of wifi, there is never an open AP around.

I work in Bellevue, WA. According to that web site, there are 7 places that offer free wifi in the whole city. I am sure the site isn't completely accurate, but still, there don't seem to be a lot of opportunities. Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing. Certainly when I check with my PDA, I rarely find anything, no matter where I am. (anecdote != data, I know)

It's strange that some kind of connectivity are getting easier and cheaper. Wifi, for example... I complain about the lack of it, but it IS improving. Compare to cell phones/SMS where rates apparently only go up. And, I was on a cruise recently, where internet access was $0.75/minute. In 2004, it was $0.35/minute.

The glorious freely connected future of my dreams seems to be receding rapidly... unless you are near a Panera.

Re:Hooray?

[Longstaff]

As a former waiter / bartender, the size of the bill is *usually* related to the length of time for the transaction. Leaving a dollar on that $5 coffee / bagel is fine because the server will be doing a significant number of transactions over places with larger ticket items. A server can complete that entire transaction in less than a minute on its own. If you get multiple, similar requests at or near the same time, the server will also combine these actions; so, while they can do a single coffee in 45 seconds from station to table, they can do 6 coffees in only 90 seconds.

Also, at a diner, you might be able turn a table over every 30 minutes. At a nice, elegant restaurant, you may only turn the table over two, *maybe* three times a night depending on scale. People eating an expensive meal tend to like to sit, talk and enjoy the food rather than getting quick body-fuel. That requires more attention and round-trips to make sure everything is going well, drinks are filled, etc.

Waiting tables is a Hell job. Long hours on your feet (I used to do 6 doubles@16+ hours each and a dinner on the 7th day) and being barked at by inconsiderate jackasses make it a largely thankless job. If you can get things as efficient as possible, your customers will appreciate it and tip in kind. If you just try to get through the hours, it will show and reflect in your tips. Those servers that just try to grind through without regard to their customers don't deserve 15%. Their choice to work in a customer-oriented business while note caring about said customers does not require me to subsidize their life. Remeber TIP = To Insure Prompt/Proper Service.

That said, I regularly earned 20% average per shift; on everything from $10 lunches to $500 two person dinners. I tip the same when I am being served. Good service to me will get you a minimum 20%. With supremely excellent service, I typically ignore the percentage completely and have been know to leave well over 100%.

Any place offering free wifi should have a person that will swing through the dinning room to ask if people want anything else. Put up a sign that says "complementary wifi with service" or some such. Make it an honor system and police it when you're not totally slammed.

Re:Hooray?

[Allador]

Usually for the quality and consistency of service.

In the last 4+ years I've been using it, I think I've only seen downtime twice. Both times a call to the people got it resolved (restarted the local equipment) or a refund for the month.

Compare that to the local mom and pop, the damn thing is crappy, service is slow, it goes down all the time. It's generally unreliable, and downtime is more like one out of every 5 visits.

Re:Hooray?

[Allador]

How exactly do you reconcile a cup full of coffee with 'contains next to no actual coffee'?

Who said anything about Starbucks is about quantity? You can get coffee of any size you want, from tiny (short) to huge (venti).

Re:Hooray?

[Allador]

As opposed to Starbucks, which serves expensive bad coffee, has a horrible attitude, then charges you for wireless? Where I'm at, drip coffee from starbucks is like a buck and a half to two bucks, depending on the size, and a quarter for refills. 4-shots of espresso over ice is like $2.40. Neither is expensive.

You can buy a $5 fancy 700-calorie white mocha if you want, but no one is making you.

And 'horrible attitude'? What planet are you living on?

Everyplace I've been across this country, the Starbucks folks are significantly and noticeably more pleasant, friendly, fun, and make every attempt to remember you and your drink if you go there more than twice. And its that way no matter where you go, from Pike Place market in Seattle, to Phoenix, to bumfuck Indiana, to New York.

If they're not, you go to the website, and complain about it. They get their butts kicked by the area manager.

And frankly, I'd rather pay $30 per month for consistent, reliable, fast wifi thats everywhere I go throughout the entire country, than argue with the owner of some mom and pop shop with free wifi who cant figure out that you have to reboot the cable modem before the wap otherwise it doesnt work right.

Re:Hooray?

[cHiphead]

You must live in the northwest then, Dunkin is ~1.99 for a large coffee in downtown Chicago.

More to the point, a Dunkin coffee with cream and sugar tastes about as good as a $4.00 latte from starbucks, add a donut and it wins hands down. ;)

Cheers.

Re:Hooray?

[Allador]

TOTAL AGREEMENT!

I personally like starbucks better overall, particularly if I'm travelling (like a bit of home wherever I go).

However, Caribou has the BEST iced totti/totty (sp?) on the planet that I've had.

I so wish Starbucks would do this drink .... its so much better than everything else.

Re:Hooray?

[Allador]

I do not understand how Starbucks can justify charging. Who actually pays for this? Starbucks doesnt charge, T-Mobile does. I'm sure there are kickbacks in both directions on the deal though.

And as I've said to others before, there are compelling reasons for some folks.

For me, its mostly about convenience, quality, consistency, and ubiquity.

Everywhere I go in the city, or across the country, there's a starbucks. And I'm going there anyway to get my coffee, so the wifi is convenient. If I have to go hunting around for local coffee shops, and then the subsets of those that have free wifi, and then the subset of those where the wifi is actually up and functioning, I've spent far more than the $30 per month, in value of my time.

T-Mobile hotspots are pretty much always up, always work, and are always fast. The opposite is often true of the local shops. The wifi is down, or someone is bittorrenting off it, or the folks running it dont know any better and restart the network equip in the wrong order. I dont need that hassle, I want it to 'just work'. T-Mobile does this for me.

It's not for everybody, I agree. But with this combo, anywhere in the country I go I can find a good cup of coffee, and fast, reliable wifi that just works with no hassle. It's a no-brainer for $30 per month, at least in my case.

And those are the folks who they are appealing to.

Re:Hooray?

[ChaosDiscord]

Barnes & Noble is trying this crazy idea of providing lots of chairs and tables throughout the store. This is obviously a bad idea. Have you been there? I have, and the chairs and tables are full of people reading, but not buying books. The little attached cafe is full of kids doing their homework! I hate it. Clearly they're losing piles of money, and I expect them to go out of business any day. After all, I've been buying books for years, so I'm clearly a qualified expert to tell other people how to run their business.

Back in reality, have you actually chatted with the staff and owners of the places offering free wifi? I'm on reasonably good terms with the manager of the campus coffee shop I frequent, and they're doing well. They're doing so well that they opened their first branch a year ago, and it's doing just fine. While it is frequently busy, I've never failed to find a seat and have always enjoyed the atmosphere. Meanwhile, the suburban local coffee shops I frequent are the ones I'll actually occasionally camp out in for several hours. I know I'll buy several drinks over that time period. Watching my fellow customers, they generally don't stay more than an hour or so.

Free wi-fi draws customers in who otherwise would go elsewhere. It builds goodwill. Indeed, I avoid a more convenient Starbucks and go to a less convenient local shop that offers free wifi, even if I'm not using my laptop. The local place has offered me a little nicety, so I prefer them.

Fretting about someone quietly loitering around and potentially not making you money is short sighted. It took Barnes & Noble's realization that reaching out to customers with tables and chairs indirectly increased sales.

Re:Hooray?

[ChaosDiscord]

Wow, a smug and lazy attack on Starbucks is somehow "insightful." How unsurprising.

Maybe you don't like Starbucks. That's fine. I don't care for them either. But don't project unfounded assumptions as to why everyone else goes there. Shocking though this may be, people genuinely enjoy Starbucks. I find the automatic espresso machine a bit soulless, and it never pulls a great shot of espresso, but it also never pulls a terrible shot of espresso. It pulls a consistently good shot. I prefer my local places, and I accept that I'll occasionally get some terrible drinks, but in exchange I also sometimes get exceptional drinks. As for the attitude, the Starbucks baristas never struck me as being quite a competent as someone who actually knows their way around an espresso machine, they have been consistently friendly and helpful.

(I won't defend the prices. When you're a name brand you get to charge a premium. Such is life.)

Re:Hooray?

[bataras]

>>>I just love the ambiance...

Sorry to correct your spelling: it's "Ambulance"

Re:Hooray?

[bataras]

parasite? no way. it's symbiotic. And starbucks failure to see that is a shame. I telecommute and work out of coffee shops all around town. I always buy a coffee or something first before sitting down with wifi. I spend hours and hours in multiple coffee shops all around, watching people come and go, coming and going myself and I don't recall seeing anyone just flop down and surf away without patronizing the shop in some way.

Re:Hooray?

[bataras]

>>Starbucks is charging because making it free will only make more people flock there for the wrong reasons.

wait a minute. Starbucks has always been charging for wifi. The whole point of this article is they are now backing off of that and not being so rigorous about charging for wifi.

To all those who are arguing "charge for wifi! or you'll go out of business like the shop down the block from me". Starbucks is saying "we tried what you said on a massive scale and didn't like the results". Before Starbucks saw the err of that way, when you sat down and opened your laptop, you got a screen that wanted a credit card.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut it you emo fag hipster. Why don't you quit your little libertarian ron paul stance if you're just going to sell out to some shit coffee place because it's popular. You really make me laugh. Defending Starbucks, probably because they have a deal with Apple for itunes or they play emo fag music. Get a job. Using your mac to photoshop your imaginary girlfriend doesn't count.

Re:Hooray?

[cthulhu11]

I dislike Charbucks as much as the next guy, but if AT&T can actually provision *working* wifi in their locations I'll be there. Hell I can't even stand coffee, but I often need a place to work in town. I've given up on Tully's, who advertise free wifi but cripple it with some flaky antediluvian proxy server that renders the service useless, eg. SSH connections wedge after 5 minutes. I tried the Charbucks/Tmobile thing a couple of times a few years back, and it was massively flaky and authentication was hit or miss for a really staggeringly high price. I look to be getting an AT&T wireless data card soon, so if the plan for that qualifies as "broadband" (man, I wish people who aren't signal engineers wouldn't [mis]use that word) I'll benefit massively from this, as Charbucks are much easier to find than one-off's with working wifi -- and some of them even stay open past 5pm.

Re:Hooray?

[Anonymous Coward]

Continental on 3rd and St Marks has Free Wifi. Never understood why a bar needed free wifi. Actually most of the free wifi spots i've found are small shops (Pizza places, coffee places, some diners even) in the village and some parts of Soho. You should also check out ThinkCoffee if you're in that area as it is cozy, has good service, and the drinks aren't bad too.

Re:Hooray?

[cthulhu11]

In the handful of years that coffee shops have offered free wifi at all, I've yet to see a single occasion where there was a shortage of tables, whether people were using wifi or not. Three dollar product? Do you live in rural Iowa or something? Around here all you could get for $3 would be a Lipton teabag in an 8oz cup. For reasons that aren't important here I've often found myself having to be 40 miles away from my home office for a whole day with a need to do my job. I can either go sit in a Motorhead-concert-loud machine room with chillers that rival 747's, or I can pay $5 for a rice chai that costs $1 to make, and occupy 5% of their free space for a few hours. I don't have a problem with paying for what I use, but I do have a problem with being gouged. Hotels that charge $12.95 for net access from noon to noon, for example, or the absurd rates that Tmobile's been charging at Charbucks for their flaky service. I rarely see many kids hogging tables for extended periods, even right around UW, and even more rarely see other people with jobs doing so. If you don't think people should be able to do our jobs in mostly-empty coffee places, where would you like us to go? Sitting outside the homeless shelter^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hlibrary for two hours until they can be bothered to open, and forgo food/water all day because I can't run to the bathroom?

Re:Hooray?

[MightyYar]

Alas, I'm on the Upper East Side - might as well be Mars if your trying to get to the Village :)

I'm actually sitting in a coffee shop now, but sitting near the window to get the neighbor's Wifi... Very weak signal.

Re:Hooray?

[ThatGamerChick]

I just want to agree with the above poster. As a ex-waitress myself, I've found that most people do not realize that we are paid just enough to make sure taxes are properly taken out of our checks. Sometimes I wonder if some people even know this, since they leave such low tips. When asked, I tell my customers that I am taxed according the amount of sales. So if I make $X, then I am assumed to have made $X*.15. Also, I, like most servers, had to 'tip out' to the bartenders, hosts, bus staff, etc according to that sales number, too. So if customers do not tip or under tip, I don't make any money. This could be wrong, but that's what I've been told and it sounds like it could be correct. /rant

Well, that's not to say that all servers need to be tipped 20%+. In my opinion, some people just shouldn't be in any service based jobs or at least, they need to improved something. It be customer service skills, time management skills, or whatever so their customers will feel better about leaving a tip for them.

Re:Hooray?

[qopax]

Living in new york, and having been to other cities, it's difficult to find a table at any starbucks I've been during weekday work hours. Nowadays, it's sometimes hard to find a table even in the evenings and on weekends. People love to use them as a lounge space.

Re:Hooray?

[cthulhu11]

/me is glad he's living in the Seattle area, not New Yuck.

Re:Hooray?

[qopax]

Oh cmon, flamebait without even the simplest of explanations? Or is the reason being because our coffee shops are crowded? You're right, that is downright ATROCIOUS!

Re:Hooray?

[ckaminski]

Yes, the local shop carries 100% Kona, and Jamaican Blue Mountain (which I can't really stand). My favorite times in Maui were sitting outside BadAss and just watching the waves break...

But my mates girlfriend buys the $8 blend crap at Stop & Shop. :(

'bout bloody time

[keraneuology]

I'm not much of a coffee drinker, nor am I a starbucks wallflower. But from time to time there have been occasions when I liked to grab a nice cup of herbal tea and just chill in a comfy chair in a coffeeshop. Starbucks was never on the list because they are/were the only shop in town that didn't offer free wifi.

Re:'bout bloody time

[Anonymous Coward]

nor am I a starbucks wallflower I've got a collection of pressed Starbucks wallflowers preserved in a really big book. They still smell like coffee.

Re:'bout bloody time

[djupedal]

T-Mobile has been running a free six-month Hotspot campaign for PSP users since mid-2007...still in effect thru end of March I believe.

Re:'bout bloody time

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you're not the only one who felt strongly about this!

Re:'bout bloody time

[value_added]

I'm not much of a coffee drinker ...

LOL. Nor are most Starbucks patrons, it seems. Those folks in line are mostly ordering "drinks" which, from what I can gather, amount to a slice of chocolate cake thrown into a blender with some coffee, and served up with whip cream in a plastic cup and a straw. I guess drinking coffee out of a cup while using a fork to eat your desert is too fattening, or maybe just too old skool. ;-)

That said, I agree about the "comfy chair" environment. Whether you want to socialise, hit on babes using Thinkpads (I've seen them!), or just hang out, it's hard to beat. The fact that people are conducting actual business (interviews, meetings, etc.) in those same comfy chairs shouldn't surprise anybody.

As for the wireless thing, it's obviously a business decision to counteract the falling stock price and stave off competition from the bottom feeders like MacDonalds and donut stores, but it does translate into a nice perk for Starbucks patrons. I have ATT DSL, so I believe I have (or soon will have) free wireless, but I've not bothered yet to check it out yet as I already have a comfy chair and espresso machine. If I do get free wireless, then I expect I'll be spending more time sitting among the "coffee drink" drinkers.

Cutting out the middleman

[0xdeadbeef]

Of course the NSA wants to offer WiFi at Starbucks. Dangerous radicals often meet at coffee shops.

And the So What Meter reads...

[ismism]

...nada. Zip. Needle didn't even budge. Starbucks is nuckin futs to think they can still charge for what every half-rate cafe gives away these days. Oh yeah, they're the ones who also charge around 30% more than my local coffee place charges, and I'm more than happy to give the nice people there the difference and then some for a tip. Puh-lease.

Re:And the So What Meter reads...

[Mean Variance]

Oh yeah, they're the ones who also charge around 30% more than my local coffee place charges, and I'm more than happy to give the nice people there the difference and then some for a tip.

Perhaps the devil's in the details, but I believe that little extra you might pay at Starbucks gets them health insurance, probably more of a bennie than a 50c tip. And as far as cost, the decent quality indie coffeehouses I frequented in the San Jose Bay Area - Coffee Society and Campbell Roasting - were as expensive, for the latter, or weirder/ruder in service, for the former.

Re:And the So What Meter reads...

[pgillan]

Didn't Coffee Society end up buying Campbell Roasting a few years ago?

it's all about the execution

[abes]

There was a cafe nearby my old school in NYC which I used for doing a large part of my thesis writing. They started off having free wi-fi, but I think got sick of the freeloading (lots of students in the area), and so switched to an hourly-ticket system. Unfortunately whoever implemented the system did a very bad job of it. The problems ranged from making the network really unstable to having to rely on a printer to get your ticket (it's on a frigg'n network .. make a renewal webpage!), to the amount of time allotted (1 hour is not nearly long enough -- especially if someone comes up and starts talking to you).

Which is not to say Starbucks will be doomed. Only that past experience with other systems (esp. counting every hotel and airport I've been to) has shown very few businesses know how to do these things right.

It is *really* nice they're doing away with the pay-system for already paying customers. The amount T-Mobile was charging for access was crazy, and in the end I suspect all Starbucks cares about is getting more people into their store over-paying for the coffee. I have the option of working in Cafes, only I require internet-access. Until now I've been to chea^H^H^H^H thrifty to pay the additional cost (especially since I'm already paying for it at home). I'm much more likely now to spend some quality time in their stores.

I used to work there....

[russlar]

Currently with T-Mobile, they use Cisco 1700 series routers. Upgrading the hardware is a good call.

Re:I used to work there....

[petecarlson]

I thought they were using the 2800 series. I don't think that the package they use will run on the 1700. I will try to look up some data as I am looking for 7500 used 2811s to hit the used market...

Re:I used to work there....

[pak9rabid]

I used to work for the company that sets up and maintains the AT&T wifi hotspot locations. They will be 'upgrading' to an AT&T DSL connection, Netopia CPE, and a Linux router to do the actual serving of welcome pages and network management.

As simple as flipping a switch

[joshv]

"[The company plans] to install all new equipment at Starbucks as part of this agreement, so the changeover won't be as simple as flipping a switch."

No, it will be as simple as shipping out a new wi-fi hub and walking a barista through plugging it in and registering it over the phone.

Re:As simple as flipping a switch

[russlar]

Speaking as a former barista, they don't know shit about the wi/fi, and are guided by strongly worded policies not to touch the equipment under any circumstances. Baristas are not usually technically inclined, at least in Boston/Cambridge. This will be done by AT&T techs.

Re:As simple as flipping a switch

[Anonymous Coward]

As a current barista, I can vouch for what this person say is correct.

At the 3 locations I have worked, 2 have had the T-mobile wifi. They usually park the equipment 2/3's up on a 7 foot server mount with signs like "Property of T-mobile" and "Do not touch without permission from T-Mobile". The smartjack is usually 7+ foot high bolted on the wall, or at least it was at both of my stores.

I, however, know the T-mobile data plan rates, and warn customers... Well, I warn our regulars. They're our bread and butter ;)

You're missing the real story...

[ntimid8]

The main reason for the switch is that virtually every executive at their Seattle headquarters wants or already has an iPhone and they want the corporate discount.

Re:You're missing the real story...

[catmistake]

Am I the only one that thought T-Mobile's wifi was a pain in the wallet? They were trying to do with wifi what all cell co.s did for SMS.

'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[Anonymous Coward]

B&N has a coffee shop and of course reading material while you're there.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[netringer]

What B&N doesn't have is any power outlets. I needed a place to get a few hours work done on the road. I have AT&T WiFi with my home DSL. The B&N was about the only place in town. I checked the whole store to see if there was a place to let me work. Not an outlet to be seen. They must use battery powered vacuum cleaners.

Pathetic geek story: I had a battery/invertor box in the car so I dragged in and used that to get me an extra hour to work. It was kinda bad when the battery ran low and started beeping.

At least Panera has outlets. I dunno about Starbucks. I never went for the T_Mobile deal.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Not an outlet to be seen. They must use battery powered vacuum cleaners."

Look around a retail store sometimes. See those round or square plates[PDF] in the floor? Remove one and the outlet's behind that. Only problem is it would look a bit obvious if you did it.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[p0tat03]

Many places use specialized "vacuum" power connectors to avoid others leeching power. Next time you're there watch out for these circular three-prong looking contraptions.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[Brobock]

What B&N doesn't have is any power outlets I am about to open a Steampunk inspired coffee shop in the imminent future and have been doing research in this subject. It seems not offering outlets is a strategy. By not doing so, people will stay as long as they have battery power. Once power is exhausted they will leave. This keeps people from loitering way beyond the reasonable limit.

It could be architectural that there are no outlets, or it could be strategic ultimately.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[GiMP]

Panera, at least here, really pushes to get people out of there in 30 minutes or less. Their Wifi splash page clearly says that if your plate is empty, get out!

The two B&N' near me have power outlets. Too few, but some. Actually, I suspect they're trying to minimize laptop usage because they recently changed their table layout which significantly reduced the number of laptops that could be powered... I wonder how much these store owners think about the power outlet availability, if at all.

The next great thing right now might just be coworking spots, providing hotdesking for telecommuters. Such a place just opened up in Philadelphia, Independents Hall, and there are a few other such areas scattered around the country. I'm thinking of getting a desk there.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[OldManAndTheC]

I am about to open a Steampunk inspired coffee shop in the imminent future and have been doing research in this subject. It seems not offering outlets is a strategy.

That plan will start to unravel when someone shows up with a steam-powered laptop and a bag full of coal.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[bataras]

And yet places like People's Coffee in Berkeley (http://www.peoplesjoint.com/) purposely put an outlet every 2-3 feet, is always crowded almost impossible to find a seat and pretty much every person has an unfinished cup in front of them when I've been there.

Great news..

[GiMP]

I work from "home" and often head out for a change of venue. I normally go to Barnes & Noble because they have AT&T Wifi which has partnered with Boingo. The nice thing about Boingo is that it is only $20/mo, month-to-month. Both AT&T or TMobile are about $40/mo, month-to-month. Unfortunately, I still ended up paying some nasty fees to TMobile for the few times I've chosen to, or had to work from Starbucks. Now, I'll be able to use both, and thats a great thing, as where I am there isn't a whole lot of other choice. With a typical month including over 40 hours of coffee-shop patronage, a change of venue is much appreciated.

For the 'just use free hotspots' crowd, my area generally has no coffee shops other than at Barnes & Noble and Starbucks. Both charge for their Wifi. We also have Burger Kings and Panara Bread with free internet. Unfortunately my area Burger King's don't have open power outlets and smell like burgers; Panara Bread requests that patrons limit their sessions to 30-minutes, and at least where I am, have had sub-par connectivity.

Re:Great news..

[ckaminski]

I've got a Treo 700 with a tethered data plan for $80/month with a 4GB cap. Use that and a decent power-managing laptop, and I average 4-5 hours unplugged. I get 600 or 750minuts of airtime, free nights and weekends, and unlimited SMS. Gosh, I remember when SMS was free for me...

Re:Great news..

[GiMP]

I had a dataplan in Poland when I lived there a year, $40/mo for their "up to 3.7mbps" service. Realistically, I often got no more than 128kbps due to over-subscription, but towards the end, I was getting over 1mbps often enough. Regardless, there is no way am I going to pay $80-90/mo for a data plan in the US.

The nice thing in the US is that a few carriers have inexpensive non-tethering data plans that while not permitted, have no technical barriers to doing so. Thats good for occasional access, for when you can't find anywhere else, or are otherwise tied to a non-wifi location.

As I noted earlier in this thread, I'm considering coworking opportunities as an alternative to the coffee-shop.

Re:Great news..

[ckaminski]

I'm sorry, I thought I was clear that that was a data AND voice plan.

Verizon Wireless does offer a ~$40 broadband plan.

Coworking, interesting concept, best suited for urban/dense suburban areas I'd guess?

Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[Fencepost]

For quite a while AT&T has offered access to their network to their DSL customers for $2.99/month, but recently they announced that they were dropping that to "free for our DSL customers." So, in addition to McD's, Barnes & Noble and some other locations, you can now get effectively free access at Starbucks as well.

Handy, that.

If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores?

Re:Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[afidel]

My company just got a ton of BB 8820's with WiFi, I wonder if our unlimited data plan is going to include use of the hotspots now...

Re:Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[Macrat]

If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores?

Airports, hotels and Kinkos.

Re:Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[ccoder]

I was in a borders on Saturday 2/9/08 (sitting in the Starbucks section) in Macon, GA and paying the $2.99 for 2hr fee to AT&T. They got rid of T-Mobile already.

Re:Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the free government spying that comes with it!

Seriously, everyone should boycott AT&T for their treasonous act. But this is America so free services displace our freedoms.

Re:Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[Allador]

If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores? Airports (go go DFW), Hotels, and of course, Starbucks.

If you read TFA, T-Mobile customers will still be able to roam for free into Starbucks hotspots.

wired at public library

[bzipitidoo]

Wireless is a pain, as connection problems are more difficult to diagnose than they should be. Problems could be not getting a good signal, authorization information is bad, or someone's configuration (yours or theirs) is wrong, and it is sometimes difficult to tell which of those it is thanks to lousy feedback to the users.

Public libraries are everywhere, not too difficult to find, and pretty much all of them have computers connected to the Internet. No guilt trip either for not buying anything. Downsides are libraries often have weird hours thanks to budget difficulties (will open late or close early on random days of the week), and the computers tend to be in demand so that sometimes there's a wait, and of course being public computers you can't and wouldn't want to do stuff like make a VPN connection to your employer's network. But I'd rather visit a library for a bit of surfing or a check of my web mail than hunt around for a wireless connection that works. Motels are pretty poor at running wireless. Down half the time, misconfigured, poor coverage, intermittent signal, etc. And they don't know what to do about it when they have problems, just have to wait whatever expert they've contracted can fix things.

Re:wired at public library

[Basehart]

Ever tried looking at porn on a Library PC?

Re:wired at public library

[Cardcaptor_RLH85]

Where I live (Genesee County, Michigan), all of our county's District Libraries have free WiFi. Just bring a laptop (or other 802.11 b/g enabled device) and you're good. Also, while some of the branches have quite...interesting hours due to the budget concerns you mentioned, two locations (on in a local mall and the headquarters) are open for 6 and 7 days per week. All of this in an area that's not exactly known for being well-off economically. If our area can do it I certainly believe that areas with a larger (or higher income) tax base could definately do it.

Re:wired at public library

[JK_the_Slacker]

Who told you?

I was young, I was stupid, and I was weak. It won't happen again.

Re:wired at public library

[tirerim]

Unfortunately, public libraries tend not to get much funding even in fairly wealthy areas. My local library in Cambridge, MA is only open five days a week, and most of those days it's not open in the evenings. (Though I'm sure that there that are branches with better hours.)

Headline is completely wrong

[PitaBred]

According to TechDirt at least. Seems they're just going to allow a choice, rather than replace T-Mobile with AT&T. But why let the facts get in the way of a good headline...

Re:Headline is completely wrong

[Lemmy Caution]

The headline is essentially accurate. T-Mobile and AT&T have made an agreement to allow T-Mobile users to continue connecting at Starbucks. They are being "grandfathered in," so to speak. Thus, T-Mobile users don't get hosed, but it still remains the case that Starbucks is no longer working with T-Mobile.

I'm a subscriber to a pretty substantial package of T-Mobile services. I have been happy with their service offerings, and their customer service has been outstanding. I can't help but wonder, though, as they fail to get the iPhone and start losing valuable partnerships like Starbucks, whether the benefits of their excellent service will start to mean less if they don't provide offerings with major partners like Apple. When these kind of alliances create unique opportunities, it is a path to monopoly - think Microsoft.

Re:Headline is completely wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would T-Mobile want the IPhone when they have the Shadow and the Wing?

Twice the functionality at one fifth the price. Although the article is about the Nokia E70, the same thing applies to the T-Mobile phones http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone

I visited starbucks

[EEPROMS]

here in Sydney, I cant believe you guys call that crap coffee.

Re:I visited starbucks

[kaos07]

Depends how you say it. In Australia we get good tasting "Coffee". However in America their "Cawfee" taste like a goat lactated in a cup full of mechanical oil.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate coffee.

That aside, just because a place is cookie-cutter doesn't mean the product will still taste the same. For example, I remember that for the longest time there was a huge difference between a McDonalds in London and a McDonalds in New York.

Terry Prattchet goes into this a bit in "Good Omens" sort of. In "Good Omens" he says the difference is that in the UK they take away the speed in which it is served and how hot it is. Having eaten at the 'same' resturant in different places, it's possible that the people in Sydney just suck at making coffee.

Captcha Crochet.

Of course, people don't go to Starbucks for coffee. They go there for milkshakes with coffee in it.

Freaking wierdos.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Hadlock]

Even for people in that part of the northeast, that's a fairly uncommon accent (cawfee).

Re:I visited starbucks

[mjwx]

Actually as an Australian I notice that it is actually a common accent for USians. USians don't notice it because they are exposed to it constantly. I don't think I have an Australian accent but when I go overseas I notice that my Australian accent really begins to come out.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Hadlock]

wait, wait, are we talking "kawe-fee" or "Ca-fee" (long A)? kawe-fee is specific to parts of NYC and boston, which make up a very small percent of the US, but very large percent of US sitcoms

Re:I visited starbucks

[tuomoks]

Here in Seattle - come and smell the real coffee. But don't go to Starbucks, any corner has a better coffee shop and real cups. And who drinks coffee out of paper or plastic mug anyway?? This city is full of free wifi places, not much reason to pay. Maybe not as good as S.F. but getting there.

Re:I visited starbucks

[pandrijeczko]

Here in the UK, if I've ever been to a Starbucks it's because the missus and I are out shopping of a weekend and she seems to like their coffee.

I must admit that the coffee served in Starbucks and other chain coffee outlets is distinctly "average" and highly overpriced. The problem seems to be that these places are run by teenage kids who are just interested in churning out as much of the stuff as possible rather than delivering coffee drinks of any quality - bearing in mind we pay £2.50 (approx. $5 US) for a Starbucks coffee here, about 20% of the time I end up taking my (simple to make) Americano back to the counter because it tastes awful and for that kind of money, I'm not prepared to just sit and take it.

We also go out to Spain a lot and I have never yet had a bad cup of coffee out there. Unlike UK coffee shops, the ones in Spain seem to be run by proper "barristas" who know how to use and maintain their coffee machine. Out there you'll pay 1.20 (approx $1.50) for a coffee at the most.

The coffee shop chains are a rip-off - let's face it, how else could Starbucks have two shops within 2 minutes walk of each other in an average-sized town centre like mine.

Re:I visited starbucks

[fyrewulff]

1) Americans, not USians. you AUSian.

2) Fast food coffee is completely different to what people make at home. Do you want it fast, or do you want it to taste good? Either way I drown it in creamer.

Re:I visited starbucks

[hxnwix]

here in Sydney, I cant believe you guys call that crap coffee. Did the coffee swirl backwards?

Re:I visited starbucks

[MightyYar]

You can get good coffee in the US - just not at a fast food place (including Starbucks). They over-roast the beans to make the - ahem - "quality" consistent, and then you have to drown it in milk or cream to make it drinkable.

The place around the corner from me has such good coffee that I think they must be putting crack in it.

Re:I visited starbucks

[edbob]

Being from Australia, you probably hear "beer" whenever someone says "coffee".

Re:I visited starbucks

[ynososiduts]

You forgot New "Joisey" in general. Being from New Jersey, I have no idea how else you are suppose to pronounce coffee. I have yet to hear someone call it anything but cawfee.

Re:I visited starbucks

[pimpimpim]

Starbucks in Basel, Switzerland has nice porcelain mugs. As for the quality of the coffee, it's pretty easy to find some very good italian coffee at a small shop, and I like to support local business more than a multinational chain. Unfortunately (?), with people going to a coffee shop for the coffee, there's not much reason to install wi-fi in this places.

Re:I visited starbucks

[ckaminski]

It's amazing the consistency you can get at a single store as well. My local dunkin's makes a sweet cup of coffee in the mornings, 5 - 7, but after that I can't get a good tasting cup until the next day. I'm not sure if it's just that the machines are clean or the crew, but the dunkin's two miles away makes crap every day of the week.

Re:I visited starbucks

[ubuwalker31]

Coffee can be pronounced either as kaw-fee, kof-ee in the U.S. I'm not sure of the regional breakdown, but I know that I switch back and forth between both. Couldn't find a good geographic guide to coffee pronunciations on the internet unfortunately.

Elsewhere, coffee is written (not sure how some of these are pronounced though):

Czech: káva
Danish: kaffe
Dutch: koffie
Estonian: kohv
Finnish: kahvi
French: café
German: der Kaffee
Hungarian: kávé
Icelandic: kaffi
Indonesian: kopi
Italian: caffè
Latvian: kafija
Lithuanian: kava
Norwegian: kaffe
Polish: kawa
Portuguese: café
Romanian: cafea
Slovak: káva
Slovenian: kava
Spanish: café
Swedish: kaffe
Turkish: kahve

Re:I visited starbucks

[Plumber, Programmer,]

Try Usonian instead. If it's good enough for Frank Lloyd Wright, it's good enough for an Australian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usonia

Re:I visited starbucks

[MightyYar]

Yeah, you have to get fresh coffee. Even the coffee place that I was glowing about only has really good coffee during the morning, noon, and evening rush. Go when it is slow and the coffee is old and not as tasty. I just had a 2PM cup and it wasn't very good.

People do seem to like Dunkin's coffee, but I find it a bit weak. And no wonder - if you buy it by the pound for home brewing, you have to use 2x the amount of most other ground coffee. Still better than the burnt stuff at Starbucks.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Allador]

Can you be more specific? What didnt you like about it?

What did you have? I assume drip, or was it an espresso drink, or maybe a french press?

Was it too weak, too strong, or what?

Which beans did you have? They always have at least 2, sometimes 3 different drip types running. Usually House, a light blend, and a bold bean/blend.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Allador]

The coffee shop chains are a rip-off - let's face it, how else could Starbucks have two shops within 2 minutes walk of each other in an average-sized town centre like mine. Wait, are you saying that your evidence for Starbucks being a ripoff is its insane success and high (and repeat) volume of customers willing to pay a price premium? So much so that several stores within a few minutes walk of each other can operate successfully?

I think this is evidence that, at the very least, Starbucks has its customers believe its very much NOT a ripoff.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Allador]

They over-roast the beans to make the - ahem - "quality" consistent, and then you have to drown it in milk or cream to make it drinkable. You do of course realize that for a very large chunk of the population (ie, starbucks customers) this is exactly how they like it roasted.

For those of us, what you call a 'regular roast' is watery and bland.

Now mind you, a Toddy (sp?) or a french press tastes better, and Starbucks will sell you the latter. Wish they would the former.

Re:I visited starbucks

[MightyYar]

Starbucks doesn't just make a dark roast - they over-roast. They do this to ensure a consistent taste even as their supply changes. As a result, when I have Starbucks coffee, I just add some milk or cream... no biggie. It actually can taste quite good with enough cream. I don't know many Starbucks fans who drink black coffee - most of them drink the fancier drinks, or at least add cream. There is a reason for this :)

However, I do (slightly) prefer my coffee black - and Starbucks coffee is not pleasant when black because of the burned taste. A true "dark" roast will roast the beans without burning them. I like a dark roast - I'm not a weak coffee fan.

A toddy is just cold-brewed coffee - it has nothing to do with how well-roasted the beans are. Same with the French press - it's just a different method of brewing and doesn't have anything to do with the roast.

Re:I visited starbucks

[pandrijeczko]

I would suggest that most customers who visit Starbucks are paying a premium simply because they know no better.

I'm not denying Starbucks (or any company) their success, they're exploiting a part of the populace who obviously have money to burn so good luck to them.

But the fact is that a £2.50 cup of coffee probably costs about £0.25 to make so therefore I'd suggest that Starbucks (and the other High Street coffee chains) are probably making a 1000% profit on each cup. Compare this to a retailer of CDs or clothes, where their profit markup is probably around 50-80%.

Re:I visited starbucks

[Allador]

I'm sure they're making a good profit, nothing wrong with that if they can convince people to pay it.

But its not like all that money is flowing right back to shareholders and C-level executives. Starbucks pays their baristas well (compared to other coffee shops), they pay full benefits, 401k, stock options, and frankly makes for an excellent place to work for those in the position to want that kind of a job.

So their expenses are going to be higher than your typical mom & pop store, which, all things being equal, means their prices will also be higher. Of course, their supply chain & distribution network is probably far more efficient than a mom&pop, so not sure where it balances out.

I guess my biggest problem with your posts though are the unnecessary loaded words. Things like 'exploit' and 'know no better' which brings out imagery of greedy evil geniuses sitting around a republican board room figuring out how next to bilk the stupid masses.

But believe it or not, there are those of us who actually like and prefer Starbucks. And do so through an informed, educated choice.

I've tried ALL the coffee shops where I live. For most of them, the regular coffee (drip) is weak and tasteless. And their fancy drinks are also not very good. And they look at you weird and do a crappy job if you want something simple like 4 shots of espresso over ice (for those places who dont do iced toddy (sp?)). And several of the locals have horribly inconsistent performance. It's a gamble from one day to the next what quality of coffee you get.

And the food is crappier, and the baristas are not as friendly, and the wifi is slower.

This doesnt even get into the fact that with Starbucks & T-Mobile, I can go pretty much anywhere in the US (where I live) and get exactly the coffee I want and like, know exactly how it'll taste, wont get any hassle from the baristas (and get an incredibly nice smiling face), and have a fast, reliable internet connection. This is true pretty much everywhere in the US, even down in the depths of Indiana and equivalent places.

Now mind you I've run into some equally good places I like. Caribou Coffee being one, but there isnt one where I live. I also have been to some amazing local coffee shops in Seattle, and I keep hearing about great ones in the bay area. But locals that are that good are few and far between.

In the "So What" School here

[rijrunner]

Honestly, I was not even aware that there were still wifi coffee shops that you had to pay for internet access. Is that a Bay Area thing? In the Fort Collins CO area, most coffee shops I have been around have free wifi with no time limits.

Seriously.. small shops have been doing this for years. DSL is down in the $20/month range and a wireless router is cheap. I suspect that the administrative overhead of managing a system like this one for Starbucks is not really worth the effort. Starbucks may have made their money on the T-Mobile deal, but I doubt it. IIRC, it was a $500 mill contract. And, a quick websearch shows a series of price cuts.

Here's one from 2003:

http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/1855971

"In the original story regarding the price drop, Starbucks New Ventures Director Lovina McMurchy is quoted as saying that even the busiest Starbucks shops get about 20 Wi-Fi devices on the network per day. While T-Mobile doesn't release cost information for providing the hotspot, the revenue generated from so few customers is probably not enough to cover costs of a high speed line -- the T-Mobile Hotspots are served by costly T1 lines -- and the revenue sharing between T-Mobile, Starbucks, and HP, which provides some software for the services."

http://www.lockergnome.com/mobile/2006/03/09/t-mobile-answers-the-cries-of-starbucks-owners/

"All the mom-and-pop coffee shops offer free Wi-Fi. In fact, most everyone does except Starbucks. The Seattle-based coffee house gets its hotspot piped in by T-Mobile. It's been reported for years that store managers at Starbucks has been complaining to upper management for a while about losing business because customers don't want to pay for their Internet after forking out $4 on a foo-foo drink."

Here's my favorite:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/23/fonbucks-wifi-starbucks-ent_cx_mc_0226fonbucks.html

"FON, a community WiFi provider headquartered in Madrid, Spain, is offering wireless Internet access to Starbucks' latte-sipping surfers for just $2 a day--versus the $10 users pay to sign onto the 5,100 T-Mobile hotspots at U.S. Starbucks (nasdaq: SBUX - news - people ).

Just how does FON plan to steal away Starbucks Internet users? By offering FON wireless routers, also known as "La Foneras," free to anyone who lives above or next to a Starbucks. The routers, which usually cost $40, split an Internet broadband connection into two wireless signals--one for personal Internet use and the second for public use, which can be accessed by anyone within range for $2 per day. The routers' owners get to pocket half of the sign-on fee, and FON takes home the rest."

Re:In the "So What" School here

[flynnternet]

Ahh, another FtFun geek.

Gotta love this town! (The Town Pump rules.)

Although it snows all the time, so you do not want to move here...

Peace!

Re:In the "So What" School here

[Allador]

Seriously.. small shops have been doing this for years. DSL is down in the $20/month range and a wireless router is cheap. Yeah, and you get what you pay for.

$20 per month and a cheap wifi router does not give you the same quality connection as you get with T-Mobile in a starbucks.

There you get a low-latency, synchronous* 1.5mbps connection, with reasonable quality cisco equipment.

$20 per month of DSL backhaul will, maybe, get you a 384/128 kbps (down/up speeds). Thats just crap.

* Actually I dont know whethers its synchronous, but its close if not. I've had to push files from my laptop via CIFS on top of a VPN now and then and it was reasonably fast. I've not run a dslreports speed test from there in years though, and dont remember what it comes out to.

Bring on the freaking bums and bandwidth hogs

[Anonymous Coward]

As a paying T-Mobile customer, I don't see this as any kind of a positive change for Starbucks. I never even think about going to Starbucks anymore because there's never any place to sit, with all of the leechers and freeloaders plugging up their laptops into the free electrical outlets and taking up permanent residence. All I want is to buy a Frappuccino and relax for a few minutes. With my T-Mobile account I can get a good wi-fi signal anywhere I go, so I've never had any great need to park my ass inside a Starbucks so I could check my email.

Encouraging the loafers is going to make Starbucks even less appealing for those of us who actually want to sit down and drink coffee. And maybe I'm just getting old, but I've never drug my laptop out to Starbucks because I think it's just this side of insanity to whip out a machine I paid two grand for, show it off to the world, and then get back on the subway a couple of hours later, making me a perfect target for muggers and thieves.

Re:Bring on the freaking bums and bandwidth hogs

[FunkSoulBrother]

Some of us live in the goddamn suburbs, where walking from a Starbucks to your car is really not frightening, even with a $2000 laptop.

Re:Bring on the freaking bums and bandwidth hogs

[Allador]

And maybe I'm just getting old, but I've never drug my laptop out to Starbucks because I think it's just this side of insanity to whip out a machine I paid two grand for, show it off to the world, and then get back on the subway a couple of hours later, making me a perfect target for muggers and thieves. Where do you live, Baghdad?

Everywhere I go, every tom, dick and harry (and their dog) has a $2000-3000 macbook or macbook pro. I'm not sure what would make a mid-range laptop stand out in the crowd, to make you a target for attack.

If you're really worried about it, consider getting a CCW, and start carrying a handgun. Or at least taser, pepper spray, or a baton or similar.

Panera

[dekkerdreyer]

Try Panera. Their Wi-Fi is free, remarkably uncluttered for the amount of people in there using it, and the food is significantly better than StarBucks (and the coffee is cheaper).

Re:Panera

[Datamonstar]

thanks for the tip. If I could only get three of them to open up on any given street corner in my neighborhood I'd be glad to switch.

Re:Panera

[Anonymous Coward]

>amount of people

Try "number of people": http://www.writing.com/main/books/entry_id/318060

HTH. HAND.

Re:Panera

[Anonymous Coward]

Try "amount of people" OR "number of persons"

http://www.writing.com/main/books/entry_id/318060

HTH. HAND. GDMFSFBPA.

And I work at a Starbucks...

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at a Starbucks, and have for 4 or so years. It's a great job, provides insurance for us on the treadmill of bachelors/masters programs when the school insurance plain stinks. We get lots of benefits, and a lot of latitude in how we do our job (make people happy above all else).

Now, when it comes to that occasional "I need to check my email" or what have you, the T-mobile price and 'service' is just disgusting. 10$ a day, or 30$ a month?! Yeah, it's that bad. It's not like they have any choices here, do they? Well, yes, they do. All our Subways offer free wifi, as does a popular pizza chain, as does ALL the hotels in our area, as does other coffee shops, as does even the bar.

Yeah, Starbucks is premium and all, and I can understand that. However, what seems simple is to print off the WEP key on a receipt so paying customers have free access. Our server could be easily tied into that kind of setup, in that it would provide no impact on us partners: we see this kind of integration in the drive thru stores, along with the "Bean Screens", and some stores the sticker machines.

And I wouldn't see customers get disgruntled over paying 2$ for a cup of coffee then immediately going to Subway for their email.. We simply don't have the complete package that other coffee houses do.

Re:And I work at a Starbucks...

[Zephyr14z]

I also work at starbucks, and our store is strategically located in the parking lot such that you can't actually quite reach the free wifi of the neighboring businesses who have been kind enough to provide it. We actually do lose quite a few customers who come in expecting free wifi, and are disappointed. This AT&T deal is actually a good thing.

How does it affect WiFi @Home (T-Mobile) customers

[fuocoZERO]

I currently subscribe to T-Mobile's WiFi@Home feature so that I can place calls on my BlackBerry through WiFi. One of the coolest features was being able to place those calls from Starbucks for no additional charge. I wonder if there will still be some type of deal between AT&T and T-Mobile to allow that feature to continue.

Apple Connection

[ThatsNotFunny]

Apple allows people to leach bandwidth at Starbucks for iTunes purchases.... Apple partnered with AT&T for their iPhone... Starbucks is now using AT&T as their wi-fi provider... hmm.... quite an interesting circle of coincidence!

latte from your iphone

[knowledge651]

the only reason they did this is to gear up for the iPhone starbucks app where you will be able to order your coffee from your iphone for pickup. and it'll just charge to your phone plan. going to get interesting real soon.

Well it was working...

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Make hay while the sun shines and all that. People daft enough to pay $4 for a coffee are prime candidates to sting for some wifi too!

Re:Well it was working...

[Anonymous Coward]

And people stingy enough to pay less than that are idiotic self-centered pauper strivers who don't give a shit about the people serving them having health insurance.

HTH

Re:How does it affect WiFi @Home (T-Mobile) custom

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA says yes. An agreement between AT&T and T-Mobile was made for this very purpose.

Its about time!

[mikeinwa]

As others have said... it couldn't come soon enough. TMobile prices were outrageous when you only needed a couple minutes. 2 Free hours is maybe even too much, but still not bad. Nice work for once, Starbucks!

Doesn't anyone pay attention?

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't dropping T-Mobile, they've just opened up the network to AT&T customers. Additionally, AT&T wifi hotspots will now be available to T-mobile Hotspot-at-home subscribers. This is really just an effort to open up the networks to benefit both companies; somehow the blog-o-sphere managed to spin it "Starbucks dumps T-mobile."

But yeah, as mentioned above, don't let the facts ruin the story.

Re:Headline is completely right

[node 3]

No, TechDirt is absolutely wrong.

From Starbucks:
In recognition of the many T-Mobile customers who enjoy visiting Starbucks, the Company is also announcing that T-Mobile HotSpot customers will be able to continue to access Wi-Fi services at no additional cost, through an agreement between AT&T and T-Mobile.

T-Mobile's hardware and network are being removed, and AT&T's are being installed. What's happened is AT&T and T-Mobile have a deal (probably at Starbucks' behest) to allow T-Mobile customers to access the AT&T hotspots in Starbucks.

But why let the facts get in the way of a good headline... Indeed...

not free? it is where I am

[dwater]

Every Starbucks I've been to in the last 5 years or so, has had free wifi - except one, and I think that was because it was in an area covered by a commercial wifi service (but I'm not sure).

But

[Wolfier]

Why not make it customer only for limited time and then you can buy more time?

I can understand the price being there to deal with the freeloaders, but when I buy something there, they used to give me 30 minutes of free Wifi (that was 4 years ago).

Now, customer or not they're charging.  Those who called the shot were boneheaded.

Starbucks with the what now?

[Trogre]

Hang on, I thought Starbucks was just another coffee shop. What do they have to do with T-Mobile, T-Rex or news for nerds for that matter?

Re:Starbucks with the what now?

[Allador]

T-Mobile is the commercial wifi provider for all (or all that I've seen) Starbucks retail stores.

This is a big deal because a lot of IT road-warrior or consultant types live off of starbucks and wifi.

Mmmm for that

[Colin Smith]

Starbucks, double latte, iPhone lifestyle...

Free WiFi making inroads in Yurup

[Dobeln]

I was pleasantly surprised to find Free WiFi making inroads into Europe - using my iPod Touch at my local Café, Skype and Aftonbladet (the major Swedish tabloid) offered free Wi-Fi. Let's hope it spreads.

Re:Free WiFi making inroads in Yurup

[Tony Hoyle]

It doesn't make the same inroads because it doesn't get used the same.. you can pick up a 3G dongle for your laptop for next to nothing (£10 a throw in the UK) and have internet wherever you are, so Wifi really isn't seen as being needed, as it's way more expensive than mobile data. Starbucks and McDonalds do it (never seen anyone using the McDonalds one though) but for smaller shops it's not worth the hassle.

I wonder what starbucks in europe will do now? OK in many of their shops their advertised wifi doesn't in fact work.. but in those that it does, it's all T-mobile and there's no AT&T to take over.

Re:Free WiFi making inroads in Yurup

[Tony Hoyle]

Rereading your post you say you've seen free wifi? Wow.. that's a rarity. None at all within about 10 miles of here that I've ever seen. McDonalds is free but also crap (it throws adverts at you), so nobody uses it. Starbucks of course is the usual £5 per hour fare.

Re:Free WiFi making inroads in Yurup

[Dobeln]

Oh, I know that 3G is where most mobile data is at - part of the reason I was pleasantly surprised by the initiative. And 3G can be a dog sometimes if you are unlucky with the base station load, etc., so having some WiFi around can be neat.

New T1's for every store

[mbone]

This means a new T1 for every store, as a T-Mobile provided T1 was part of the original deal.

That means a lot of work for AT&T installers, and will take a while.

Re: Closing Out of Restaurants

[TaoPhoenix]

Tip that has worked for me: Combine steps.

1. If you're a regular, order when the server first appears.
2. The moment they bring the order, ask for the bill.
3. While they're away, get your credit card in hand.
(You can now go back to your meal.)
4. When they arrive with the bill, snap the card down pronto.
(Continue with your meal.)
5. Your tip is $2 if your meal is up to $15.00, $3 if your meal is up to $22.
      *Your* time is worth more than agonizing over the calculation.
      If you didn't want to be spending up to $25 including tip on a meal,
      you would have never entered at all.

About the time you're done with your meal, this whole sidebar transaction is done.
The service provided for the $18 meal is usually the same as the $22 meal, so it justifies the same tip. Since you declined the need for extra service visits, you compensate for the couple points below the 15% mark on the $22 tip.

why not free?

[onegear]

One of the reasons I really like visiting the smaller, local, coffee shops is that most offer free WIFI. I never just sit there and use the free wireless. I always go through my share of coffee. I just don't understand why Starbucks charges? Another reason I visit the local coffee shops is because they actually have good coffee....Starbucks IS NOT good coffee.

Public WiFi

[EmagGeek]

I haven't needed a public hotspot since I starting getting online through a bluetooth link to my 3G phone. I usually get about 1mbit in both directions, which is plenty for what I need to do on the road, and it's only $20/mo for unlimited data through my provider (AT&T + Ginormous Employer Discount).

Cellular data networks are becoming more ubiquitous and AT&T's is by far the fastest (I've tried them all). Public hotspots are the pay-phones of the 21st century.

Re:Public WiFi

[Allador]

Are you kidding me?

AT&T uses an archaic technology for data connectivity.

Both Sprint and Verizon's service (based on EVDO RevA) are significantly faster. Maybe not in your specific area, but in the underlying technology, its not even close.

In particular, the latency and packetloss of AT&T's data service is just terrible. Much worse than the first-gen EVDO. And latency was one of the big improvements with EVDO RevA.

And even if you get a solid, synchronous, 1mbps link on your AT&T phone (which I dont believe for a second), thats significantly slower than a T-Mobile hotspot at a Starbucks.

Not to mention the huge packetloss and latency differences. Try doing a VPN to your office, and then doing file sharing (CIFS) across that supposed 1mbps link. You'll see how bad it is.

Bundling not very nice for independent ISPs

[Anonymous Coward]

One unfortunate side effect ----

Bundling free benefits like this with home DSL service is another stab to the heart of local ISPs, who can't afford to make the same deals with national chain stores. Think bundled free browsers and all that ....

Bundling hurts independent service providers

[Anonymous Coward]

I just made the point elsewhere that this sort of exhibition of market power hurts independent ISPs who can't make megadeals for coffee shops or airports too, just like it's hurting an idependent telephone service provider like T-Mobile (who knows how long they're grandfathered in for?).

Are there any alternatives other than keeping ownership of basic infrastructure (like roads, water and power systems, maybe network access) separate from end user sales and delivery? It's often prohibitively costly for anyone else to overbuild and create another parallel system.

OLPC

[mors.cs]

Where oh where can i use my free T-mobile hotspot crap now with my OLPC!!!!

Hope the new equipment is better....

[otis wildflower]

... than the junk providing 'tmobile' SSIDs.. Every time I try to get onto the tmobile network with my E70 the goddamn thing panics, it's the only network this happens to.

When this finally happens, it'll probably be about the time my tmo contract runs out.. Methinks it'll be time to change, if the network plans are not completely retarded..

I miss the Speakeasy cafe in Seattle

[infonography]

Run by Speakeasy (the ISP, it's how they started) they had beer smoking and bands. of course free intenet on Wyse terminals or wireless. You could talk right to the Sysadmins about your case over coffee or beer.

Of yeah much better coffee and Microbrew.

Starbuck? Meh

From the SysAdmin side

[mediis]

Hot Spot was "that step child organization" that was forced into T-Mobile Corporate Submission with a painful re-org. I'm willing to bet that those who survive the layoffs will be thankful. The sad thing is, though, there are a lot of good people working there.

Technology to kick the bums out...

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

There are many restaurants (e.g., McDonalds) that install seats LESS comfortable than they could so you're not encouraged to stick around. "Turns" is a big concept in most businesses, but especially so in restaurants that need to meet demand during peak mealtimes to turn a profit.

Re:Hooray? Find a coffee-shop with a Clover

[clivus]

Not sure about the wi-fi you will find, but this machine makes the best "drip" coffee. Actually more of an inverted automatic French Press with suction. Not too many in the states - though here is a map http://cloverequipment.com/find_a_clover.aspx After this - I can't drink Starbucks coffee.

Hooray?-Bonus jar.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I never managed to understand the theory that people somehow "deserve" a tip just for doing their job."

Apparently you won't feel too bad if you don't get a christmas bonus this year.

"hipster cred"

[jotaeleemeese]

I like the smell of class envy in the morning.

With one tall skinny cap please.