If America as an entity deserved / left the door open for attacks, why were more innocent people killed? They didn't do anything wrong. Because we've done it to other countries? Well guess what. We're still doing it, this time in rebuttal to what happened last year. It's a never ending cycle, people should just stop bitching about who's right. Because we're all wrong.
Right, we're on the same page. But nobody deserves do die. I can bet your Gospel says that, if not it should. Nobody deserves to fly planes into buildings. Nobody deserves to die because an improperly aimed missle hit a school instead of the building a block away housing the tally-ban. The common element here is death. Nobody deserves it. America did not deserve the attacks. They deserved a sanctioned talk to generate peace between the factions that don't like us. Nobody deserves to die because of what America has done.
ESPECIALLY the people in the buildings. If anybody in that radical group had any brains they would have realized that killing innocent people is not the way, no matter how many have died at the hands of America, Isreal, Etc. Hell, if they really wanted to strike us, they should have hit our military. But they can't so they resort to petty cheap shots like what happened last year.
I cannot think of any other country I'd rather live in. Can you? (If you happen to NOT live in America, well.. nevermind.;))
Along the same lines as your Gospel quote, I'm remembered of the law of three. If countries don't work on peace without war, the law of three will keep happening and shit will still be flung at the fan.
Exactly. I agree with you completly. People die. People have died at the hands of Every country in existance today. Nobody can keep pointing fingers, nobody should. Especially today.
This is complete and utter idoicy. The media and you people with the black hearts pick up on the propaganda that the other nations we've attacked distribute. Propaganda about how we're so evil that we don't care about killing innocent people. This is coming from the same people that didn't have the balls to attack America properly, instead just flying planes into large buildings.
I'm not mocking the fact that this happened. Don't get me wrong. I'm still getting lightheaded and faint whenever I think about / read about this.
But the fact that there are people who can say "America deserved." or even worse "The people in the buildings deserved, corporate slaves". Just sickens me. Nobody deserves to die. Muslim, Christian, Wiccan, Jew, Marklar. Nobody.
If the people around the world, and especially America at the front lines, would realize that people die in war things might be different. They have to realize that when we bomb cities in Afganistan we're hitting (or trying to) targets with military personell. We do not seek out the largest most populated buildings and blow them up. No matter how America has killed innocents in Afganistan, the fact remains that both sides have done it. If you want the lesser of two evils, America is just that. It's complet cowardice to do what happened this time last year to any country. Anybody.
Keep in mind, I said "Deserved". America may have left the door wide open with the breeze flying through.. But that's different. Completly. America didn't deserve this. Afganistan didn't / doesn't deserve what we're doing to the cities and military and civilians there. But, that's what happens when you go to war. The Taliban don't care about the civilians in their own country, which is why they shack up in the mountains and in cities as well.
If I didn't have so much code to write before Tomorrow's "demo" I'd reply in length. (Yeah, read "demo" as "lets see what we really asked for before we work up specs");0)
I guess I wasn't really questioning free will, maybe I was. I was curious where people thought that God's influence left the Human to be Human. We all make mistakes, and you're right, we all would rather have benefits than having to deal with the bills of those who passed.
I guess it's kind of "non-religious" to say that Humans are all "free" will, and are influenced by no outside forces. It's also kind of impossible.
I, for one, am terribly influenced by the world around me. It's hot, sticky, muggy, and my allergies are acting up today. Therefore, I'd much rather be inside in the AC.;)
One can only hope they wouldn't be clear, that'd make for more pain than one would expect.
Placing faith in God, like everything else, holds different meanings. You make sense, but I know some people do exactly as you speak, others who place faith in "karma" or "the laws of three" and still some who just let what ever happens, happen. In all aspects, if you choose unwisly, you will feel the personally gained neglect from it. Same, but inverse, applies to "Good" decisions. I don't feel that one can say that all life decisions are placed in the hands of the Bible's God (not to be a derotgatory (sp) term, but simple ownership of the definition) and still have a consience. If anything, a consience is the voice of reason between "right" and "wrong" and "left". If decisions were up to God, you would not need that part of the day-to-day thought process. Or, maybe God has given you those "roads to take" out of the many he could have given you, therefore, no matter *what* road you take, you're going down a path chosen by God. Simply because he picked the choices out of the lot of 'em. Then again, does the phrase "God has given you those "roads to take" out of the many he could have given you" mean "Your past decisions have filtered down your current decisions to these in front of you..". Which begs the question, when does God leave us to ourselves? Never? Or after we take our first walking steps? Or did God leave "us" after Adam and Eve and from that point on, the steps and paths the Human race took were decided by your parents, and your parent's parents, etc..
hehe. I agree with you, I like our thread as well. Fire insurance is only needed if you believe in fire. Personally, I think "Hell" is anything you create it to be. If you live the life of a model Human, (The mold being the Bible, et atl) then your "Hell" is fairly nonexistant. But if you take it apon yourself to lie, cheat, steal, murder, and do other unjust harm, your hell is well deserved and brought on by yourself. "Hell" being the consiquences (sp) of your actions, all across the board. Make sense? (Not asking if you believe, but I'm asking if I made sense in my definition..;))
Ahh, yes.. "color ignorance", thank you for defining that for me, I didn't even make that connection.
Exactly. Yet people think they can prove it and have wars that last thousands of years and take the lives of many people "getting back" at other people. Sigh. Speaking of colors, I've always said that maybe "color blind" is in the eyes of other beholders.. If I raise a child to think that the color of a "red light" is "blue, then orange, then black", will the child be colorblind?
Clinical colorblindness isn't exactly that, but the ability (or lack thereof) to see the differences between colors or any color at all (B&W).
If we measure the peak-to-peak value of the wavelengths, how will we know we're all measuring the same thing? We all have different ways to measure! Inches, feet, seconds, Marklar. It's all a big big circle, this "Human mind" is.
The universe could not even exist, we could be floating thought and all have memories to each our own. Sort of "lucid dream" like. Hrm, Matrix/Vanilla Sky like...
They have seeing eye chimps? And all along I thought he was just to help get chicks.
Then again, "God" can exist and does because I define it as I did above. "God" may not exist to me via your definition. That is up to each person to decide.. Which is why I think we're both on the same page, or at least within the same paragraph. If I define "God" as something that does not exist, such as.. an uncrashable version of Windows, then "God" may never exist, unless that comes along some day... (yeah, right !;))
But if people can say "God exists to you because of what you believe", then we can all get along. I really dislike people who say "God doesn't exist, God is really just Christian crap" then go on to say they worship God and Goddesses. They're talking about the same thing, just using your definition of God to gain self esteem because they can offend you.:(
First "bullet": Here's where it gets interesting. Does the way you percieve things or the way you want them to be affect in any way the actuality of that thing?
Before reading your deaf-blind-pinball-wizard example below, here was my thought:
On a purly mythical/out of my hands/bigger than I am standpoint, if I don't believe in something it may as well not exist. But like you pointed out.. that thought process and discussion is very unending. There are many many things out there that we have no knowledge of. Like you said, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. But nobody can say that it means that they do.;) So I guess everybody with religous "God exists" and "God does not exist" arguments can boil the conversation down to what we just discussed and all the wars can end. Sadly, it's Human nature to be stubborn.:(
Bullet two: Ham Sandwich?
Bullet three: If I am deaf and blind, I probably shouldn't be in the street alone.;)
Marklar is everything. I think it was just the first word that came to my head.;)
I agree with how you define "God", I've always had the question of "what created whatever created.." Unless I remind myself that I can define "God" however I feel happy defining it. For the record, I am not Christian, but Pagan. Therefore "Mother Earth" is my "God". I find the Christian religion interesting, but I prefer to onlook and study. Various other religions as well, if anything from a "people" or "user" perspective, not historical. Anyway, I ramble.. The Bible refers to God as "I Am", meaning that god exists outside of the constraints of time..., what exists outside of God? Can there be "nothing" (or maybe I mean "that's it"). One can only go so small, maybe they can only go so large..
"Order" and "Chaos" are relative terms, and the definitions differ between different sources. One man's trash is another's treasure. I think the universe is in a constant state of flux, not order nor is it chaos. It just is. If people define "chaos" as "the world no longer exists" then they're fooling themselves because they are not looking outside.
You just proved your statement wrong by yourself..
Throw the second law of thermodynamics together with the law of conservation of energy, and I'm thinking that the leap of faith that it takes to believe that random chance "created" the earth is far greater than the leap of faith it takes me to believe that someone gave it a push.
"someone" as in "God"? That would tend to say that God is a physical being, something "touchable" (for lack of a better term). In that aspect, what created this "touchable" God? Why cannot "God" and "Goddess" and "Marklar" mean the same thing.. Be a "capsule" for the terms and feelings behind Nature, Emotion, those things? If the people who believe in Faith, and the people who believe in Evolution can agree on the question I just asked, then we're really talking about the same thing. Only arguing about symantecs. (spelling, I'm a geek..)
When I say God, or Goddess, or Marklar, I am really placing a visual/marker on the group of emotions I am caring/thinking about in that moment in time. I think that is Human nature. Sure, "God" created the world/universe/all life, but by "God" I mean, Nature and scientific evolution. But I can still say "God". That's what I think most people are forgetting about.. "God" is not something "touchable", not someone but rather a wrapper for the collection of emotions, thoughts, seasons, and events we attribute to daily life.
but still had depth perception I think that's just it. If you're living on a 2d plane, you cannot have depth perception. It reminds me of CAD Diagrams on graph paper for some reason. If depth perception was represented by color (red shift like) then you could tell, but only by infering because of the change in color.
Then again, IMHO, if you're living on a 2d plane, EVERYTHING is nothing but black. All around you.
Please, mod this up. Hyperspace is a Great book, that I have read many times. It's made the permanent collection above my toilet. Where all the good reading is done!
If your son is a student in computer science, have him come in on the weekends and do his projects on your office computer. Ted will be there for you when your son's illegal copy of Visual Basic 6.0 makes the Access database keel over and die.
I wrote a signup/cc processing system for an ISP I worked for. During "test" phases, rather than bill my card the full signup price, I had something similar to this article's practice.. I appended something to the url and my card was billed 99cents.
I got fired for other reasons, various reasons...
Left really quick. Like, "boom - fired - out the door".
Part of the problem is the fact that IE pages simply *look* better. Take form inputs, buttons, etc. Netscape/Mozilla/Opera/etc simply lost. If they stepped up a few steps on the "make it look better instead making things that never work anyway" ladder, we'd be singing a different tune.
Slashdot Mirror
If America as an entity deserved / left the door open for attacks, why were more innocent people killed? They didn't do anything wrong. Because we've done it to other countries? Well guess what. We're still doing it, this time in rebuttal to what happened last year. It's a never ending cycle, people should just stop bitching about who's right. Because we're all wrong.
Right, we're on the same page. But nobody deserves do die. I can bet your Gospel says that, if not it should. Nobody deserves to fly planes into buildings. Nobody deserves to die because an improperly aimed missle hit a school instead of the building a block away housing the tally-ban. The common element here is death. Nobody deserves it. America did not deserve the attacks. They deserved a sanctioned talk to generate peace between the factions that don't like us. Nobody deserves to die because of what America has done.
;))
ESPECIALLY the people in the buildings. If anybody in that radical group had any brains they would have realized that killing innocent people is not the way, no matter how many have died at the hands of America, Isreal, Etc. Hell, if they really wanted to strike us, they should have hit our military. But they can't so they resort to petty cheap shots like what happened last year.
I cannot think of any other country I'd rather live in. Can you? (If you happen to NOT live in America, well.. nevermind.
Along the same lines as your Gospel quote, I'm remembered of the law of three. If countries don't work on peace without war, the law of three will keep happening and shit will still be flung at the fan.
Exactly. I agree with you completly. People die. People have died at the hands of Every country in existance today. Nobody can keep pointing fingers, nobody should. Especially today.
This is complete and utter idoicy. The media and you people with the black hearts pick up on the propaganda that the other nations we've attacked distribute. Propaganda about how we're so evil that we don't care about killing innocent people. This is coming from the same people that didn't have the balls to attack America properly, instead just flying planes into large buildings.
I'm not mocking the fact that this happened. Don't get me wrong. I'm still getting lightheaded and faint whenever I think about / read about this.
But the fact that there are people who can say "America deserved." or even worse "The people in the buildings deserved, corporate slaves". Just sickens me. Nobody deserves to die. Muslim, Christian, Wiccan, Jew, Marklar. Nobody.
If the people around the world, and especially America at the front lines, would realize that people die in war things might be different. They have to realize that when we bomb cities in Afganistan we're hitting (or trying to) targets with military personell. We do not seek out the largest most populated buildings and blow them up. No matter how America has killed innocents in Afganistan, the fact remains that both sides have done it. If you want the lesser of two evils, America is just that. It's complet cowardice to do what happened this time last year to any country. Anybody.
Keep in mind, I said "Deserved". America may have left the door wide open with the breeze flying through.. But that's different. Completly. America didn't deserve this. Afganistan didn't / doesn't deserve what we're doing to the cities and military and civilians there. But, that's what happens when you go to war. The Taliban don't care about the civilians in their own country, which is why they shack up in the mountains and in cities as well.
Deserved last year's attacks? No.
Wait. You mean that there are people still using Python? I thought Parrot was supposed to be the be-all-end-all? :)
Good point, You're good at this..
;0)
;)
If I didn't have so much code to write before Tomorrow's "demo" I'd reply in length. (Yeah, read "demo" as "lets see what we really asked for before we work up specs")
I guess I wasn't really questioning free will, maybe I was. I was curious where people thought that God's influence left the Human to be Human. We all make mistakes, and you're right, we all would rather have benefits than having to deal with the bills of those who passed.
I guess it's kind of "non-religious" to say that Humans are all "free" will, and are influenced by no outside forces. It's also kind of impossible.
I, for one, am terribly influenced by the world around me. It's hot, sticky, muggy, and my allergies are acting up today. Therefore, I'd much rather be inside in the AC.
One can only hope they wouldn't be clear, that'd make for more pain than one would expect.
Placing faith in God, like everything else, holds different meanings. You make sense, but I know some people do exactly as you speak, others who place faith in "karma" or "the laws of three" and still some who just let what ever happens, happen. In all aspects, if you choose unwisly, you will feel the personally gained neglect from it. Same, but inverse, applies to "Good" decisions. I don't feel that one can say that all life decisions are placed in the hands of the Bible's God (not to be a derotgatory (sp) term, but simple ownership of the definition) and still have a consience. If anything, a consience is the voice of reason between "right" and "wrong" and "left". If decisions were up to God, you would not need that part of the day-to-day thought process. Or, maybe God has given you those "roads to take" out of the many he could have given you, therefore, no matter *what* road you take, you're going down a path chosen by God. Simply because he picked the choices out of the lot of 'em. Then again, does the phrase "God has given you those "roads to take" out of the many he could have given you" mean "Your past decisions have filtered down your current decisions to these in front of you..". Which begs the question, when does God leave us to ourselves? Never? Or after we take our first walking steps? Or did God leave "us" after Adam and Eve and from that point on, the steps and paths the Human race took were decided by your parents, and your parent's parents, etc..
hehe. I agree with you, I like our thread as well. Fire insurance is only needed if you believe in fire. Personally, I think "Hell" is anything you create it to be. If you live the life of a model Human, (The mold being the Bible, et atl) then your "Hell" is fairly nonexistant. But if you take it apon yourself to lie, cheat, steal, murder, and do other unjust harm, your hell is well deserved and brought on by yourself. "Hell" being the consiquences (sp) of your actions, all across the board. Make sense? (Not asking if you believe, but I'm asking if I made sense in my definition.. ;))
Ahh, yes.. "color ignorance", thank you for defining that for me, I didn't even make that connection.
Exactly. Yet people think they can prove it and have wars that last thousands of years and take the lives of many people "getting back" at other people. Sigh. Speaking of colors, I've always said that maybe "color blind" is in the eyes of other beholders.. If I raise a child to think that the color of a "red light" is "blue, then orange, then black", will the child be colorblind?
Clinical colorblindness isn't exactly that, but the ability (or lack thereof) to see the differences between colors or any color at all (B&W).
If we measure the peak-to-peak value of the wavelengths, how will we know we're all measuring the same thing? We all have different ways to measure! Inches, feet, seconds, Marklar. It's all a big big circle, this "Human mind" is.
The universe could not even exist, we could be floating thought and all have memories to each our own. Sort of "lucid dream" like. Hrm, Matrix/Vanilla Sky like...
They have seeing eye chimps? And all along I thought he was just to help get chicks.
Then again, "God" can exist and does because I define it as I did above. "God" may not exist to me via your definition. That is up to each person to decide.. Which is why I think we're both on the same page, or at least within the same paragraph. If I define "God" as something that does not exist, such as.. an uncrashable version of Windows, then "God" may never exist, unless that comes along some day... (yeah, right ! ;))
:(
But if people can say "God exists to you because of what you believe", then we can all get along. I really dislike people who say "God doesn't exist, God is really just Christian crap" then go on to say they worship God and Goddesses. They're talking about the same thing, just using your definition of God to gain self esteem because they can offend you.
First "bullet": Here's where it gets interesting. Does the way you percieve things or the way you want them to be affect in any way the actuality of that thing?
;) So I guess everybody with religous "God exists" and "God does not exist" arguments can boil the conversation down to what we just discussed and all the wars can end. Sadly, it's Human nature to be stubborn. :(
;)
Before reading your deaf-blind-pinball-wizard example below, here was my thought:
On a purly mythical/out of my hands/bigger than I am standpoint, if I don't believe in something it may as well not exist. But like you pointed out.. that thought process and discussion is very unending. There are many many things out there that we have no knowledge of. Like you said, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. But nobody can say that it means that they do.
Bullet two: Ham Sandwich?
Bullet three: If I am deaf and blind, I probably shouldn't be in the street alone.
Marklar is everything. I think it was just the first word that came to my head. ;)
I agree with how you define "God", I've always had the question of "what created whatever created.." Unless I remind myself that I can define "God" however I feel happy defining it. For the record, I am not Christian, but Pagan. Therefore "Mother Earth" is my "God". I find the Christian religion interesting, but I prefer to onlook and study. Various other religions as well, if anything from a "people" or "user" perspective, not historical. Anyway, I ramble.. The Bible refers to God as "I Am", meaning that god exists outside of the constraints of time..., what exists outside of God? Can there be "nothing" (or maybe I mean "that's it"). One can only go so small, maybe they can only go so large..
"Order" and "Chaos" are relative terms, and the definitions differ between different sources. One man's trash is another's treasure. I think the universe is in a constant state of flux, not order nor is it chaos. It just is. If people define "chaos" as "the world no longer exists" then they're fooling themselves because they are not looking outside.
How about my $0.02? (For lazyness and to keep it short, I'll post the url)
i d=4054729
http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=37829&c
You just proved your statement wrong by yourself..
Throw the second law of thermodynamics together with the law of conservation of energy, and I'm thinking that the leap of faith that it takes to believe that random chance "created" the earth is far greater than the leap of faith it takes me to believe that someone gave it a push.
"someone" as in "God"? That would tend to say that God is a physical being, something "touchable" (for lack of a better term). In that aspect, what created this "touchable" God? Why cannot "God" and "Goddess" and "Marklar" mean the same thing.. Be a "capsule" for the terms and feelings behind Nature, Emotion, those things? If the people who believe in Faith, and the people who believe in Evolution can agree on the question I just asked, then we're really talking about the same thing. Only arguing about symantecs. (spelling, I'm a geek..)
When I say God, or Goddess, or Marklar, I am really placing a visual/marker on the group of emotions I am caring/thinking about in that moment in time. I think that is Human nature. Sure, "God" created the world/universe/all life, but by "God" I mean, Nature and scientific evolution. But I can still say "God". That's what I think most people are forgetting about.. "God" is not something "touchable", not someone but rather a wrapper for the collection of emotions, thoughts, seasons, and events we attribute to daily life.
Just my $0.02USD
but still had depth perception I think that's just it. If you're living on a 2d plane, you cannot have depth perception. It reminds me of CAD Diagrams on graph paper for some reason. If depth perception was represented by color (red shift like) then you could tell, but only by infering because of the change in color.
Then again, IMHO, if you're living on a 2d plane, EVERYTHING is nothing but black. All around you.
Please, mod this up. Hyperspace is a Great book, that I have read many times. It's made the permanent collection above my toilet. Where all the good reading is done!
If your son is a student in computer science, have him come in on the weekends and do his projects on your office computer. Ted will be there for you when your son's illegal copy of Visual Basic 6.0 makes the Access database keel over and die.
I thought they came that way. Dead that is.?!
Most of the perlmonks.org form field names were called things like "sex is good" and the like, last I remember.
Did anybody remember what happened if you said "Is Jeeves gay?" to the search engine? ;)
I wrote a signup/cc processing system for an ISP I worked for. During "test" phases, rather than bill my card the full signup price, I had something similar to this article's practice.. I appended something to the url and my card was billed 99cents.
I got fired for other reasons, various reasons...
Left really quick. Like, "boom - fired - out the door".
Checked a while later, and it was still there..
No wonder a British engineer figured this out. They've got enough empty tooth cavities anyway..
Part of the problem is the fact that IE pages simply *look* better. Take form inputs, buttons, etc. Netscape/Mozilla/Opera/etc simply lost. If they stepped up a few steps on the "make it look better instead making things that never work anyway" ladder, we'd be singing a different tune.
I hope he straightened his legs like his instructor was telling him to do. ;)
http://www.rocketguy.com/rocket/skydive.jpg