I was pointing out how easy it is to do on OS 9, just to contrast, and maybe bring up the question of whether it's better for it to be easy like this or be part of the framework of the OS like OS X.
I never got that from your post. Good point though.
And I thought the tone was a bit rude, as it was assuming that I just wasn't paying attention
Sorry you took my post so personally. I was not trying to be rude. I appologise for that. Below is what I was trying to say.
The discussion was about OS X and quicktime, not OS 9. Considering the *large* architectural changes between OS X and OS 9, I felt your example had no bearing on the conversation and therefore was "meaningless".
If it were something along the lines of say, Win98 and WinME (very similar OSes) it would have been different.
didn't re-think their controller (already large for US hands)
I still don't really understand the flack they get for their controller size. It fits my hands perfectly, in fact much more comfortably than any previous controller I've used.
Not to mention the fact that when I asked my little sister (5'2" with hands to match) if the controller was to big, she looked at me like I had crabs crawling out of my ears and said "No".
I really doubt they are that worried about losing money on Halo. It was just announced that it has become the systems first million seller (faster than the first ps2 million seller.
Not to mention the fact that it wasn't delayed for a year.
Looks like my memory failed me a little bit. The post in question wasn't quite as cut and dried as I made it. Here it is:
http://www.shacknews.com/funk.y?id=2486169
By: GeorgeB3DR [Dec 6th 2001, 03:53:20 pm Duke 4 & Bots] #20, >>A while back it was anounced that DNF would be arriving on the gamecube at some point. Is this still the case? And will it be going to all of the consoles? I know it might be to early to tell, but i was curious what your plans were for the consoles.
We really don't know what consoles DNF would go to, but you can be assured that we'll try all of them. I really think memory is going to be an issue. Max Payne barely, and I mean barely, squeaked into a PS2 and Duke is more memory intensive than Max is.
In the end, we'll do what we can on the ports. And the port teams are amazing with what they can manage to do.
Here's a follow up answer in the thread. This is the one I made my statement because of:
GeorgeB3DR [@Dec 6th 2001, 04:55:35 pm]
#133, I believe the PS2 has 32 megs, and the GameCube has less, at 24 megs.
I don't know if he's just plain wrong or talking about usable memory?
"-- Technically I said games I'd buy...." Thats why I said "If you like any of the games they make this does have bearing."
HDTV: Yes ultimately the games are what matters. But a good game that looks better usually wins. Well see in a month or so how good HD games look. Also consider that the Xbox has a significantly higher number (all, I think) of 480p games. GC has a few and PS2 none. Granted you need a tv capable of it, but its a huge picture quality improvement.
DD5.1: Fact. Only Xbox has real time in-game DD5.1 EA is hacking in DTS support for a couple of its PS2 games but the console itself does not support it. The GC has a game that supports DPL2, any of the consoles can support DPL2 if the game is encoded in that format. The Xbox is heads and shoulders above the other two consoles when it comes to audio.
HD: Its mostly a blessing. If you like memory cards you can still buy them. Its only $100 more than a GC (add $$ for how many mem cards you need), same price as a PS2 (without HD, without ethernet). Custom soundtracks makes it more than a glorified memory card. But, even as a glorified memory card, you have no idea how nice it is to not worry about how many blocks you have free. Its just one of those things you can't truly appreciate until you have it.
Ethernet: Its about install base. EVERY XBox has ethernet. Unless they bundle the adapter with the game (doubtful considering the cost) there is a much smaller base for developers to make games for.
Ram: I brought this up because I've seen a developer (3DRealms) talk about how they no problems porting Max Payne to the Xbox, but had problems porting to the PS2 because of memory (had to significantly lower the texture quality) and no plans to port to the GC because it was pretty much impossible to port it and still have it look good.
The games always have and always will determine the winner. As for dramatic difference, well it depends on if you're hooking your console up to a 13" tv or a 65" home theater. The 13" will be about the same but on the 65" its a very dramatic difference.
Right now the Xbox wins for me on all counts. Of course, as soon as Mario, Zelda and company show up I expect to have a GC to keep it company.
"Actually, according to the story, Sony offered to only permit its own employees to operate the PS2's"
That statement (or anything like it) is nowhere in the linked article.
Also Microsoft was not the only company to complain.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
"A spokeswoman for CeBIT told BBC News Online: "We received complaints from many, many exhibitors about Sony, including from Microsoft." [snip] The spokeswoman added: "Both companies were showing their machines but Microsoft followed the rules and did not have any games to play on it, while Sony did. CeBIT is not for playing games."
She said CeBIT asked Sony to switch the games off but instead the company removed all of its consoles from the fair.
Slashdot Mirror
Is this the same Senator Hatch that thought the DMCA was a good idea? Sounds like maybe his judgement is a little suspect.
Umm...Ok.
How about this?
Week 4/8-4/14, Japan Hardware Sales
* PS1: 3,000 units (total this year: 74,000)
* Xbox: 1,800 units (total this year: 169,000)
Thats not what I would call outselling.
I never got that from your post. Good point though.
And I thought the tone was a bit rude, as it was assuming that I just wasn't paying attention
Geez, I already apologized, no need to rub it in.
Oops, my fault. I misquoted the post I was replying to.
Sorry you took my post so personally. I was not trying to be rude. I appologise for that. Below is what I was trying to say.
The discussion was about OS X and quicktime, not OS 9. Considering the *large* architectural changes between OS X and OS 9, I felt your example had no bearing on the conversation and therefore was "meaningless".
If it were something along the lines of say, Win98 and WinME (very similar OSes) it would have been different.
Heh, I wasn't blaming CE, just deflecting the jokes.
:(
Agree on the DC work of art comment.
Only the good die young
Sorry, but your example is meaningless.
/points to subject of your post
OS 9 != OS X.
I still don't really understand the flack they get for their controller size. It fits my hands perfectly, in fact much more comfortably than any previous controller I've used.
Not to mention the fact that when I asked my little sister (5'2" with hands to match) if the controller was to big, she looked at me like I had crabs crawling out of my ears and said "No".
I own an Xbox. It has crashed on me. But so has my psx and my dreamcast (yeah I know winCE). Can't remember if any of my older ones ever did.
I really doubt they are that worried about losing money on Halo. It was just announced that it has become the systems first million seller (faster than the first ps2 million seller.
n m/ 20020408/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_xbox_dc_2&cid=581
Not to mention the fact that it wasn't delayed for a year.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/
Some of us wait for the games to come out before we buy the system.
The PS2 has 32MB of dual channel PC800 RDRAM (main) and 4MB eDRAM (video).
1 4
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=
Or you could just turn it off so you don't have to hold down any keys.
"Democracy is alive and well outside the USA."
Psst. The USA is a Republic.
Hmm, so the plot thickens. I was starting to think George was smoking something with that 24 MB ram comment.
l ?i=1561&p=1
l ?i=1566&p=1
:)
You're right about the PS2. 32 main and 4 embedded.
Ok, I did some looking.
The 24 MB is video memory (plus another 3 MB embedded)
The 16 MB is audio memory, but apparently developers can use some of this memory for general data storage.
Now that I understand the memory in the GC a little better I can see how a game would be a bit dificult to fit on the GC, especially a port.
If you haven't already you should check out these AnandTech articles:
Xbox in-depth with a PS2 compairison
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.htm
GameCube in-deptch with a Xbox and PS2 compairison
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.htm
Thanks for the fun conversation. Its amazing what you can still learn even when you think you know a lot about a subject
Looks like my memory failed me a little bit. The post in question wasn't quite as cut and dried as I made it. Here it is:
http://www.shacknews.com/funk.y?id=2486169
By: GeorgeB3DR [Dec 6th 2001, 03:53:20 pm Duke 4 & Bots]
#20, >>A while back it was anounced that DNF would be arriving on the gamecube at some point. Is this still the case? And will it be going to all of the consoles? I know it might be to early to tell, but i was curious what your plans were for the consoles.
We really don't know what consoles DNF would go to, but you can be assured that we'll try all of them. I really think memory is going to be an issue. Max Payne barely, and I mean barely, squeaked into a PS2 and Duke is more memory intensive than Max is.
In the end, we'll do what we can on the ports. And the port teams are amazing with what they can manage to do.
Here's a follow up answer in the thread. This is the one I made my statement because of:
GeorgeB3DR [@Dec 6th 2001, 04:55:35 pm]
#133, I believe the PS2 has 32 megs, and the GameCube has less, at 24 megs.
I don't know if he's just plain wrong or talking about usable memory?
A day late, but...
"-- Technically I said games I'd buy...."
Thats why I said "If you like any of the games they make this does have bearing."
HDTV: Yes ultimately the games are what matters. But a good game that looks better usually wins. Well see in a month or so how good HD games look. Also consider that the Xbox has a significantly higher number (all, I think) of 480p games. GC has a few and PS2 none. Granted you need a tv capable of it, but its a huge picture quality improvement.
DD5.1: Fact. Only Xbox has real time in-game DD5.1 EA is hacking in DTS support for a couple of its PS2 games but the console itself does not support it. The GC has a game that supports DPL2, any of the consoles can support DPL2 if the game is encoded in that format. The Xbox is heads and shoulders above the other two consoles when it comes to audio.
HD: Its mostly a blessing. If you like memory cards you can still buy them. Its only $100 more than a GC (add $$ for how many mem cards you need), same price as a PS2 (without HD, without ethernet). Custom soundtracks makes it more than a glorified memory card. But, even as a glorified memory card, you have no idea how nice it is to not worry about how many blocks you have free. Its just one of those things you can't truly appreciate until you have it.
Ethernet: Its about install base. EVERY XBox has ethernet. Unless they bundle the adapter with the game (doubtful considering the cost) there is a much smaller base for developers to make games for.
Ram: I brought this up because I've seen a developer (3DRealms) talk about how they no problems porting Max Payne to the Xbox, but had problems porting to the PS2 because of memory (had to significantly lower the texture quality) and no plans to port to the GC because it was pretty much impossible to port it and still have it look good.
The games always have and always will determine the winner. As for dramatic difference, well it depends on if you're hooking your console up to a 13" tv or a 65" home theater. The 13" will be about the same but on the 65" its a very dramatic difference.
Right now the Xbox wins for me on all counts. Of course, as soon as Mario, Zelda and company show up I expect to have a GC to keep it company.
Its not that hard to measure.
Assume graphics are equal (I don't believe they are, but for the sake of argument)
Xbox: Supports HDTV resolutions
GC: Doesn't
PS2: Doesn't
Xbox: Supports Realtime DD 5.1
GC: Doesn't
PS2: Doesn't (PS2 has DD5.1 in cutscenes, but not in-game)
Xbox: Onboard ethernet
GC: add-on coming
PS2: add-on coming
Xbox: Has a HD (allows such nice things as not needing a memory card and allowing custom soundtracks to some games)
GC: none
PS2: add-on coming
Xbox: 64 MB memory
GC: 43 MB
PS2: 32 MB
Clearly the Xbox has superior hardware.
MS does make games for the Xbox. Sony makes games for the PS2. If you like any of the games they make this does have bearing.
So you only want Microsoft to follow rules?
I find it interesting that so many people here are upset that a company was forced to follow the rules.
"Actually, according to the story, Sony offered to only permit its own employees to operate the PS2's"
w _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
That statement (or anything like it) is nowhere in the linked article.
Also Microsoft was not the only company to complain.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/ne
"A spokeswoman for CeBIT told BBC News Online: "We received complaints from many, many exhibitors about Sony, including from Microsoft."
[snip]
The spokeswoman added: "Both companies were showing their machines but Microsoft followed the rules and did not have any games to play on it, while Sony did. CeBIT is not for playing games."
She said CeBIT asked Sony to switch the games off but instead the company removed all of its consoles from the fair.
"It could be they were angry," she added.
If they had used such "gruesome tactics" during the trial then they wouldn't have faked that video.
Even reporters troll.
Microsoft can report a violation, they can't make anyone leave. Thats up to the organizers.
And don't tell me the organizers were scared of big bad Microsoft. Sony is just as big and bad.
You can argue when it comes to software, but on the hardware side the Xbox is easily superior to the GC/PS2.