The (hostile) "vocal" users of the community do not represent the silent majority. They are VASTLY outnumbered by the nice guys and usually they back themselves up into a corner eventually and either finally shuts up or leaves the community altogether.
To find friendly help you have to look in the right places. IRC channels are hardly that right place. The mailing lists are fine provided you respect the guidlines of the lists (e.g. don't post to the wrong list, don't crosspost...) and you should at least make a modest effort to find if your question has been answered via either google or the mailing list archives. If you can't at least spend a few minutes if your precious time doing that, how can you expect some complete stranger (who you are not paying) to be nice and cheery when he points you in the right direction?
Line count percentages
on
SCO SCO SCO!
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Ok so we have this quote:
"The month of June is show-and-tell time," McBride said. "Everybody's been clamoring for the code...and we're going to show hundreds of lines of code."
So lets assume "hundreds of lines of code" is our N value. Now let N equal... oh... we'll be lenient on our definition of "hundreds" and make N = 5000.
Ok so we've got our hypothetical 5000 lines of offending code. Now lets count the number of lines in every.c file in linux-2.4.20.tar.bz2...
TMPFILE=`mktemp/tmp/$0.XXXXXXX`
for i in $(for i in $(for i in $(find./|grep "\.c"|grep -v Documentation);do cat $i|wc -l;done);do echo $i;done);do echo -n $i+>>${TMPFILE};done;echo "0">>${TMPFILE};echo quit>>${TMPFILE};bc -q ${TMPFILE};rm ${TMPFILE}
Which gives us 3332935 (including comments but hey we're lazy).
And this seems reasonable give that according to this link which shows ~1.8 million for a 2.2 kernel so yeah hey what's another 1.5 million between friends? (think of all the new hardware support)
Ok so we've got our probably bogus number of ~3.3 million lines of code.
Remember N? Come on you can do the next step its fun!
5000 / 3332935 == 0.0015% and lets be super generous and assume comments make up 40% of our line count...
5000 / 1999761 == 0.0025%
I wonder what the statistical liklihood of having similiar blocks of code of some signifigant size that happen to be the same (excluding format and variable differences). I mean there's only so many ways one can _intelligently_ code a given function
Given those kind of percentages I doubt a judge or jury could be convinced of any copyright infringement of any signifigance. It'd be kind like trying to sue a competing encyclopedia company for swiping that one entry in the "P" volume on "Petards" ("hoisting", "petard", look it up) from you and demanding millions of dollars in compensation for this plagerism (ok so this analogy sucks but I had petards on my mind so...)
There are quite a few issues with KVM's and wscons (the driver that controls keyboard/mouse input). I know I've run into many similiar problems but haven't been able to nail down the exact cause.
So yeah this might hit closer to home to some of you now. The DARP grant was to the U. of Penn. and a chunk went to OpenBSD with another smaller chunk to OpenSSL.
The article is referring to the upcoming 3.3 release and the code involved in helping stop buffer overflows is the propolice protection added to gcc and the entire distribution (and most of the ports when you compile them) are done so with propolice (google for it). 3.2 has already added non-exec stack protection to (every?) platform and a massive setuid binary reduction (I think they went from 40 in 3.1 to 9 in 3.2). 3.3 also implements privilege seperation in alot more places, including X Windows.
Now it appears as development for 3.4 is starting up since the release will be coming soon, is a massive audit of the codebase to eliminate dangerous functions (strcpy, strcat, sprintf, etc).
In short... they've set a pretty high standard and I hope a number of other free unixes pick up on the ideas. It'd be nice to hear on a monday morning "Oh look another vulnerability in SomePopularUnixDaemon... but its not exploitable on LongListOfUnixes"
When I was a freshman 2 years ago in the dorms there were NO limits at all... then coming back from winter break we noticed an upstream cap of 50kb/sec, and then downstream caps for what were the more common p2p apps. It has just been recently when UCI solidified the traffic shaping policy, included just about every p2p app on the market and publically disclosed the whole setup. You guys should also realize that the net admins _know_ that online gaming needs low latency and that is why it has 2nd priority.
Oh and crude? CRUDE? its a SYSCTL VARIABLE! sysctl kern.maxproc you @#$@#$! if you need more, INCREASE IT! sysctl -w kern.maxproc=N
NetBSD crashed alot on a laptop of your friends? excellent anecdotal evidence! hell Linux 2.2 and 2.4 kernels crashed ALOT on my hp omnibook 6000 laptop so I run openbsd on it... does that lead me to claim that linux sucks just because my particular hardware sucks? No.
I fail to buy the idea that buying a certain piece of software because the creator is "evil" is equivalent to a gypsy supporting a nazi or that because so, I am an indecent person. Your problem here is that you've taken the simple issue of: Is it good to stand by your value of NOT buying anything that uses the DMCA for protection vs Buying it won't help teach Blizzard that its customers do not support their decision into GOOD vs EVIL. The obvious problem here is that you've blown this minor ethical issue into what you've considered some utterly critical moral decision, when it is not. This not so logically strong arguement of yours is nothing more than a straw man fallacy (nazi's make wonderful straw men don't they?). Next time use a more down-to-earth analogy.
I may not be a decent person in your opinion but at least I know a stupid arguement when I see one.
Dude I saw this thing with my own eyes today and it those screenshots don't do justice to monsters. Far above par as far as the graphics go (OOH and the shadows.... let me tell you about those shadows). And there is one BIG mother of a monster not shown in the pics thats in the demo... think a cross between the predator and the queen alien and it looks utterly amazing. Compared to some other big demos, the characters in quake3 are much much much better than others *cough*LoTR game demos*cough* (although they get bonus points for cool gifts and _comfy_ blue chairs). Too bad the story looks a little TOO much like half-life's storyline.
Just a quick note on distro-on-disk BSD's I'd look towards ClosedBSD (freebsd based) or emBSD (openbsd for embedded systems). Both are basically stripped down systems, with closedbsd probably being closer to IPCop since its targetted to easy to setup net access gateways.
uh... reality? earth? what the fuck do you mean define real land mass? dirt? sendiment? LAND? prepare to argue what at length you halfwit? the definition of what the REAL WORLD is? stop watching the matrix so much when I say "real world" I mean "the real world as opposed to a video game fantasy world"... but that was kind of implied. Now I remember why I dont' post on slashdot, all the idiots come out of the woodwork and attempt to interpret what you say through the lense of a kaliedascope and glass of bong water.
"But then, this is Microsoft logic. Sort of like buying the keys to a car, but not being able to let anyone else use the car."
Hello! welcome to the WORLD OF COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE! Did you sleep through the 1980's and 1990's? Flunk out of your macroeconomics class? Live in a small sovereign communist nation for the past 30 years? Well then boy are YOU in for a SURPRISE!
It's NEW! It's TRENDY! It's ON THE CUTTING EDGE! What is it? CAPITALISM! ("Yay capitalism!") This wonderful new concept where you can CREATE SOMETHING and then SELL IT HOWEVER YOU WANT WITHIN REASON CAUSE YOU OWN THE DAMN THING.
Comparing cars to microsoft (aka per-seat license software) is more brain damaging of a thought then a bucket full of lead paint. You probably could have made a less WEAKer ANALOGY by saying that This is like a bucket of horse piss thrown onto wet dog... namely: IT MAKES NO GOD DAMN SENSE. When you buy a car, you're buying the damn car, not the privalege to sit in the drivers seat... for what you pay GM doesn't give a rats ass if you curl up in a fetal position and suck your thumb in the TRUNK. They don't care, thats not what the agreement was when you bought the car. You bought the car to use it however you want (within reason.. namely you cannot buy a car, reverse engineer it and sell it as Schubert Motor's(TM) SexMobile)...
As with someone like microsoft and say office xp and a per seat license... well JEE GUESS WHAT... PER SEAT means *drum roll* PER SEAT! *tada* If you're somehow implying all of their software or most or all commercial software is as restrictive as per-seat you better lay off the lead paint.
Are the moderators paying attention today? (yes yes a rhetorical quesiton...) How the fsck did THIS brain damaged ill thought out retort get to +3?
shepd were you born an idiot or did you have to work at it? Hate to flame but holy crap a 7 year old with the basic understanding of the word COPYRIGHT would get this one right yet you managed to screw it up in a fleeting little sentence.... Well I suppose thats better than spending a books worth of words to make the same mistake as many academics have done.
Sounds like a reasonable explaination to me... however given that we the USERS/PLAYERS/ONLOOKERS know this, we should be rather PISSED that C.E. is targetting the "littlest guy" (the wounded giraffe on the African Plains if I may make such a silly analogy:-)
In otherwords: I think C.E. is the bully here, they are going to beat up the small guy to make it easier to scare the big guys into playing ball with them... so who gets trampled on here? Mythic.
Slashdot Mirror
http://schubert.cx/osx/rpc.rquotad-osx.tar.gz
complete untested but it builds and runs (I think). A real kludge feel free to fix it up.
When the only tool you have is an axe, everything looks like fun. :-)
It has been in OpenBSD since at least 3.2 if memory serves (http://www.openbsd.org/plus32.html | grep non-exec)
To find friendly help you have to look in the right places. IRC channels are hardly that right place. The mailing lists are fine provided you respect the guidlines of the lists (e.g. don't post to the wrong list, don't crosspost...) and you should at least make a modest effort to find if your question has been answered via either google or the mailing list archives. If you can't at least spend a few minutes if your precious time doing that, how can you expect some complete stranger (who you are not paying) to be nice and cheery when he points you in the right direction?
Ok so we've got our hypothetical 5000 lines of offending code. Now lets count the number of lines in every .c file in linux-2.4.20.tar.bz2 ...
TMPFILE=`mktemp /tmp/$0.XXXXXXX`
for i in $(for i in $(for i in $(find ./|grep "\.c"|grep -v Documentation);do cat $i|wc -l;done);do echo $i;done);do echo -n $i+>>${TMPFILE};done;echo "0">>${TMPFILE};echo quit>>${TMPFILE};bc -q ${TMPFILE};rm ${TMPFILE}
Which gives us 3332935 (including comments but hey we're lazy).
And this seems reasonable give that according to this link which shows ~1.8 million for a 2.2 kernel so yeah hey what's another 1.5 million between friends? (think of all the new hardware support)
Ok so we've got our probably bogus number of ~3.3 million lines of code. Remember N? Come on you can do the next step its fun!
5000 / 3332935 == 0.0015% and lets be super generous and assume comments make up 40% of our line count...
5000 / 1999761 == 0.0025%
I wonder what the statistical liklihood of having similiar blocks of code of some signifigant size that happen to be the same (excluding format and variable differences). I mean there's only so many ways one can _intelligently_ code a given function
Given those kind of percentages I doubt a judge or jury could be convinced of any copyright infringement of any signifigance. It'd be kind like trying to sue a competing encyclopedia company for swiping that one entry in the "P" volume on "Petards" ("hoisting", "petard", look it up) from you and demanding millions of dollars in compensation for this plagerism (ok so this analogy sucks but I had petards on my mind so...)
*shrug* It worked for Theo.
There are quite a few issues with KVM's and wscons (the driver that controls keyboard/mouse input). I know I've run into many similiar problems but haven't been able to nail down the exact cause.
So yeah this might hit closer to home to some of you now. The DARP grant was to the U. of Penn. and a chunk went to OpenBSD with another smaller chunk to OpenSSL.
The article is referring to the upcoming 3.3 release and the code involved in helping stop buffer overflows is the propolice protection added to gcc and the entire distribution (and most of the ports when you compile them) are done so with propolice (google for it). 3.2 has already added non-exec stack protection to (every?) platform and a massive setuid binary reduction (I think they went from 40 in 3.1 to 9 in 3.2). 3.3 also implements privilege seperation in alot more places, including X Windows.
Now it appears as development for 3.4 is starting up since the release will be coming soon, is a massive audit of the codebase to eliminate dangerous functions (strcpy, strcat, sprintf, etc).
In short... they've set a pretty high standard and I hope a number of other free unixes pick up on the ideas. It'd be nice to hear on a monday morning "Oh look another vulnerability in SomePopularUnixDaemon... but its not exploitable on LongListOfUnixes"
its not physical storage IIRC (did you read it?) its the costs of the their commercial database being able to address this amount.
actually there is a great big gob of it out there... public mailing list archives.
When I was a freshman 2 years ago in the dorms there were NO limits at all... then coming back from winter break we noticed an upstream cap of 50kb/sec, and then downstream caps for what were the more common p2p apps. It has just been recently when UCI solidified the traffic shaping policy, included just about every p2p app on the market and publically disclosed the whole setup. You guys should also realize that the net admins _know_ that online gaming needs low latency and that is why it has 2nd priority.
Wow, just because they didn't help you with YOUR problem you dismiss them completely? If the police didn't do anything about it, tough nuts.
And why are you blaming them for not knowing security? _you're_ the one that got your password stolen. Be responsible for your own information.
Actually (at least on openbsd) fork does NOT return -1, it returns EAGAIN....
/* Resource temporarily unavailable */
if ((nprocs >= maxproc - 5 && uid != 0) || nprocs >= maxproc) {
tablefull("proc");
return (EAGAIN);
}
#define EAGAIN 35
So not exactly -1, check your facts.
Oh and crude? CRUDE? its a SYSCTL VARIABLE! sysctl kern.maxproc you @#$@#$! if you need more, INCREASE IT! sysctl -w kern.maxproc=N
NetBSD crashed alot on a laptop of your friends? excellent anecdotal evidence! hell Linux 2.2 and 2.4 kernels crashed ALOT on my hp omnibook 6000 laptop so I run openbsd on it... does that lead me to claim that linux sucks just because my particular hardware sucks? No.
So in conclusion, twinkies taste good.
Actually if you BOTHERED TO LOOK you'd notice that as of at least 3.1, OpenBSD's inetd ships with the following turned on by default....
/usr/libexec/identd identd -el /usr/libexec/identd identd -el /usr/libexec/comsat comsat /usr/libexec/comsat comsat /usr/libexec/rpc.rstatd rpc.rstatd /usr/libexec/rpc.rusersd rpc.rusersd
ident stream tcp nowait nobody
ident stream tcp6 nowait nobody
comsat dgram udp wait root
comsat dgram udp6 wait root
daytime stream tcp nowait root internal
daytime stream tcp6 nowait root internal
time stream tcp nowait root internal
time stream tcp6 nowait root internal
rstatd/1-3 dgram rpc/udp wait root
rusersd/1-3 dgram rpc/udp wait root
Think first, type later and you'll save yourself looking like a fool (although an anonymous one at that)
emBSD does it better in IIRC under 32MB
I fail to buy the idea that buying a certain piece of software because the creator is "evil" is equivalent to a gypsy supporting a nazi or that because so, I am an indecent person. Your problem here is that you've taken the simple issue of: Is it good to stand by your value of NOT buying anything that uses the DMCA for protection vs Buying it won't help teach Blizzard that its customers do not support their decision into GOOD vs EVIL. The obvious problem here is that you've blown this minor ethical issue into what you've considered some utterly critical moral decision, when it is not. This not so logically strong arguement of yours is nothing more than a straw man fallacy (nazi's make wonderful straw men don't they?). Next time use a more down-to-earth analogy.
I may not be a decent person in your opinion but at least I know a stupid arguement when I see one.
Dude I saw this thing with my own eyes today and it those screenshots don't do justice to monsters. Far above par as far as the graphics go (OOH and the shadows.... let me tell you about those shadows). And there is one BIG mother of a monster not shown in the pics thats in the demo... think a cross between the predator and the queen alien and it looks utterly amazing. Compared to some other big demos, the characters in quake3 are much much much better than others *cough*LoTR game demos*cough* (although they get bonus points for cool gifts and _comfy_ blue chairs). Too bad the story looks a little TOO much like half-life's storyline.
Horrible for pictures? tell me about it, porn just doesn't look the same on my princeton 17" LCD like it did on my old 19" sylvania.
Just a quick note on distro-on-disk BSD's I'd look towards ClosedBSD (freebsd based) or emBSD (openbsd for embedded systems). Both are basically stripped down systems, with closedbsd probably being closer to IPCop since its targetted to easy to setup net access gateways.
and yet posted anonymously. What bravery we displayed here. Take authorless words with a grain of salt
uh... reality? earth? what the fuck do you mean define real land mass? dirt? sendiment? LAND? prepare to argue what at length you halfwit? the definition of what the REAL WORLD is? stop watching the matrix so much when I say "real world" I mean "the real world as opposed to a video game fantasy world"... but that was kind of implied. Now I remember why I dont' post on slashdot, all the idiots come out of the woodwork and attempt to interpret what you say through the lense of a kaliedascope and glass of bong water.
"But then, this is Microsoft logic. Sort of like buying the keys to a car, but not being able to let anyone else use the car."
Hello! welcome to the WORLD OF COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE! Did you sleep through the 1980's and 1990's? Flunk out of your macroeconomics class? Live in a small sovereign communist nation for the past 30 years? Well then boy are YOU in for a SURPRISE!
It's NEW! It's TRENDY! It's ON THE CUTTING EDGE! What is it? CAPITALISM! ("Yay capitalism!") This wonderful new concept where you can CREATE SOMETHING and then SELL IT HOWEVER YOU WANT WITHIN REASON CAUSE YOU OWN THE DAMN THING.
Comparing cars to microsoft (aka per-seat license software) is more brain damaging of a thought then a bucket full of lead paint. You probably could have made a less WEAKer ANALOGY by saying that This is like a bucket of horse piss thrown onto wet dog... namely: IT MAKES NO GOD DAMN SENSE. When you buy a car, you're buying the damn car, not the privalege to sit in the drivers seat... for what you pay GM doesn't give a rats ass if you curl up in a fetal position and suck your thumb in the TRUNK. They don't care, thats not what the agreement was when you bought the car. You bought the car to use it however you want (within reason.. namely you cannot buy a car, reverse engineer it and sell it as Schubert Motor's(TM) SexMobile)...
As with someone like microsoft and say office xp and a per seat license... well JEE GUESS WHAT... PER SEAT means *drum roll* PER SEAT! *tada* If you're somehow implying all of their software or most or all commercial software is as restrictive as per-seat you better lay off the lead paint.
-- schubert
Are the moderators paying attention today? (yes yes a rhetorical quesiton...) How the fsck did THIS brain damaged ill thought out retort get to +3?
... Well I suppose thats better than spending a books worth of words to make the same mistake as many academics have done.
shepd were you born an idiot or did you have to work at it? Hate to flame but holy crap a 7 year old with the basic understanding of the word COPYRIGHT would get this one right yet you managed to screw it up in a fleeting little sentence.
Sounds like a reasonable explaination to me... however given that we the USERS/PLAYERS/ONLOOKERS know this, we should be rather PISSED that C.E. is targetting the "littlest guy" (the wounded giraffe on the African Plains if I may make such a silly analogy :-)
In otherwords: I think C.E. is the bully here, they are going to beat up the small guy to make it easier to scare the big guys into playing ball with them... so who gets trampled on here? Mythic.
-- schubert