It's a shame that you got marked troll. It's not like this is not a pattern of behavior going all the way back to the MS-DOS days of computing....Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it I guess.
No no no - Every time you engage in illegal music downloading, God causes a barrel of oil to get lost in shipping; that's the reason for higher gas prices according to RIAA internal memo of Ms. Mia Bonus...
(What? It's no more absurd than some of the other insanity we hear from this group.)
"Are newbie's now required to show greater grace, more patience and richer respect than those already in the community? I'm not sure that's a better way."
Why yes, yes they should - in much the same way younger people should respect their elders. A lot of older generations will criticize the youth, and of course the youtful think that the stodgy old folks don't get it because they don't see the "new way" but every now and then you get that one old person that sits down, has a chat, and enlightens a few generations by the action.
I read this and I am not ignorant enough to see that the underlying point of this persons views has merit; it's just that this person gives to much weight to it. The thing that struck my nerve was that not only should newbies not be responsible for their actions but the more priviledged knowledgeable ones should make accomodations and concessions for the newbies. I can assure you that if you read the original article it sounds likes the "Linux gurus" went ape shit but the part that was left out was the same person blasting the same questions in every channel, message board, and newsgroup over and over. It also neglected the part where the person who went ballistic actually has 10+ years experience and has to listen to someone who knows nothing argue about something they know nothing about. Not one time did this person take the time to google and see Results 1 - 10 of about 25,600,000 for setting up webserver linux. (0.29 seconds) That's a lot of hits...And what's more is that a good portion of it is duplicated thus proving my point about people even trying.
I can honestly say that there isn't a single question I have asked or could have asked on IRC that isn't answered by a quick visit to google. All that being said I will still help someone that displays the smallest amount of effort on their part...And surprise - no flames with it.
Beggers can't be choosers. (If you have nothing to offer you shouldn't be demanding) Anything worth having requires work. (You learn to apreciate and value that which takes effort) Never take any one source as Bible. (Learn to expand your own mind by being open to ideas)
"And how much effort would it have taken to have courteously replied with that exact piece of information instead of a snub?"
How much effort? Not too much really...But then combined with doing 50 time over in the matter of a few hours it does tend to become effort. So you make a FAQ, if for nothing else than to stop repeating yourself. Of course it doesn't stop you from repeating yourself because there you are, repeating yourself. What to do? You make a topic complete with hyperlinks and a very short and direct point about the problem and to read this first. So now you are directing them to a topic, that can direct them to a FAQ, that can direct them yet even more places for in depth information - just as sure as I am typing this you will be repeating everything regardless...Multiplied times a healthy number of newbies who will rinse, lather, repeat.
How much effort? Well I am changing my answer to a lot less than it took to learn the damn thing myself...And sometimes I don't even have a need to learn it! (Read as I have been able to learn something I don't even use and get others up and running)
Lets just face a very real and simple fact: Some of you people just aren't smart enough to run Linux...Some of you shouldn't be running Windows either. Am I Linux snob? Are you the reason the internet boggs down from the congestion of the latest windows worm? My advice - go buy a Mac.
Really? As opposed to any other *nix distros that uses lilo or grub? Or do you mean that you DO NOT have to install Windows first THEN your other non-windows operating systems? Curious what makes SuSE stand out in this instance. Windows has always been a pain in regard to playing nice with anything non-windows it touches - and this isn't a group think/. moronic troll, just the simple truth...Like installing Windows AFTER you have some other OS installed.
I meant to add that Linux users probably due more updating of software than any OS around since it "grows" so rapidly due to the model of development, choice, freedoms, etc. I was inferring that the updates are being done because of security breaches alone, which I don't think is the case.
"The reason Linux users don't sweat is because flaws are spotted quickly by many people who read the code, and fixed quickly too."
It leads me to assume as though you are implying that "Linux users" as a whole also UPDATE patched software compared to Windows users which I have a hard time believing personally. I am NOT implying however that Linux users are worse at maintaining updates than Windows users...It would be interesting to know a factual study since many Linux distros as well as Windows provide an almost brain-dead background process of updating a system for you.
"...There are more secure options out there you know..."
I think you missed my point entirely. So long as these people have that someone to bail them out they have no incentive to listen to advice; be it advised of anti-virus/spy/adware or running alternative software like a different OS even.
I realize this isn't the sole reason people don't get it but I believe it would make it a noticeable difference: When will the technical people quit rescuing their friends and family concerning the data on these rooted boxes? I would be willing to bet a considerable amount that if these some people lost all their precious photos, music and e-mails that not only would they take a more proactive stance on security, they may also be more vigil about back-ups too.
Dad's computer is running slow again? Aunt's computer keeps blue screening? Instead of installing some spybot/adware cleaner to salvage that install, tell them they lost it all - needs a complete format. Too harsh? It's called tough love and you probably got it as a child too when you didn't want to learn. All to often these same people have a friend or family memeber that is a "comtpuer guru" that can fix anything; why should they learn to be responsible with such an easy out?
I mean, really. If you fall into that category, what distinguishes you from a monkey pressing a lever?
On a long enough timeline of exposure to different situations in life we are all idiots by your criteria, instead of just being ignorant of a particular situation. Idiot has a connotation of being mentally retarded and unable to improve where being ignorant is a lack of education or knowledge.
I would not call you an idiot for being unable to descern the two terms; just ignorant - if you can't grasp this after the knowledge parted with you then you may well be an idiot. Hope this helps!
"I suspect that the Open Invention Network was set up to defend against this very possibility. If Microsoft makes a move the alliance will use their patents to counter. Which the companies involved have a pretty comprehensive portfolio."
This sounds like a Star Wars plot only better. Too bad you can't have voice over sound effects of snythetic breathing and symphonic music of the Imperial march theme.
Darth SourceSafe: "The IP is strong in this one" Ob1_compile to Luke SyntaxWalker: "Luke, use the source"
I personally do not care for Microsoft BUT I think it serves a purpose*
"will be more capable of a move to alternatives and will be at the right age and income bracket on a large scale."
I am unable to parse this statement as a whole, moving on...
"Pretty much anyone 40+ that don't use computers at work only use it for email, and right now all the 40+ people know or care about is Windows."
I will not pick a nit other than to say that you can remove the "40+" and regex it with "average computer user or below" and be even more accurate.
*As a programmer, I do not care for Microsoft's platform and would be glad to school you on any underlying platform technologies that have been pushed by Microsoft, pick your poison for debate. Sorry, I don't see innovation on a technical level from the company in general as a whole but I am impressed in other aspects of Microsofts achievments, namely market/business, copius blunders and uncanny ablitity to recover and still be able to throw around a word like innovative. That being said I am thankful that Microsoft is around to cater to all my friends, family, and customers who aren't like me or my peers that I am impressed with.
Could it be something like an incorrect configuration file for it?...Perhaps say doing math difference on swap when there isn't any enabled for example.
Unix and its variants cater to the technical minded people. Written by programmers for programmers. For example well behaved programs don't babble on success, very terse documentation geared towards like minded people who know and are willing to research concepts further. A technically superior product for people that program and maintain networked systems and infrastructures..
Windows has a different value system. Windows caters to the non-technical minded people like the average Joe Sixpack, Grandma, etc. For example, user feedback by dialog boxes and progress indicators to let Grandma know the "doo-hickey" she clicked on will eventually open her e-mail, plus knows the average Joe will not read help page after help page for the most part so documentation is geared towards people who won't remember the contents of the previous page of information. A technically superior product for the average person with no technical computer skills that are task oriented.
To say Vista is "not people ready" would indeed be a true statement if security and stability are at the core of Vista unlike any other attempt Microsoft as made. To put it simply you can't have Windows with Unix power and vice versa without compromising some of the core principles of where these platforms came from. An example is the MacOS X - they have taken parts of Unix and meshed with the working parts of Windows excluding the suck parts of Unix and Windows; but it doesn't behave like either to the Unix power user nor to the Windows power user.
This is the biggest challenge Microsft faces now with healthy competition. If Joe Six pack and Grandma have to get smarter then why wouldn't they consider Macs or some Unix variant at some point? Reminds me a lot of how AOL works in conjunction with people as they "mature" about internet usage...
Of course others did, and they still do to my knowledge. My intention wasn't to paint a picture that only Google does this but more to say even if they spin it that way, the company doesn't have much of a case as you just pointed out.
Seems like the case would have merit if Google picked at random that this business was unjustly targetted for punishment, failure to pay an extortion fee for rankings, etc. A more realistic scenario is that this company probably tried to do something to unfairly get its pages ranked higher, which does happen and Google will not deny that when an entity is caught there are consequences. It probably isn't too strange a coincedence that this comes at a time when Google is being plastered all over the headlines (Federal Judge denies Google hand over keywords, etc) this company thought it might be slick, found out it wasn't.
Basic behavior you're taught in kindergarten - play nice with others or get punished.
Is this anything like the hacker versus cracker? I'm not criticizing your standpoint more so than saying that people can complain hackers are good, crackers are bad. The public perception, and reality is, crackers are thin crisp wafers or biscuit; not some rogue hacker with malicious intent.
Worms, trojans, viruses - pretty sure this will fall under the above: For the technical minded and educated these are indeed very different things. The masses will lump the nomenclature of each together as synonyms for all.
Slashdot Mirror
It's a shame that you got marked troll. It's not like this is not a pattern of behavior going all the way back to the MS-DOS days of computing. ...Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it I guess.
"And in what universe is anyone who can intelligently speak about (much less code around) memory and VM management an 'incompetent idiot;?"
According to some, like Java and C# fanboys for example, just about anyone who programs still using C...
No no no - Every time you engage in illegal music downloading, God causes a barrel of oil to get lost in shipping; that's the reason for higher gas prices according to RIAA internal memo of Ms. Mia Bonus...
(What? It's no more absurd than some of the other insanity we hear from this group.)
"Are newbie's now required to show greater grace, more patience and richer respect than those already in the community? I'm not sure that's a better way."
Why yes, yes they should - in much the same way younger people should respect their elders. A lot of older generations will criticize the youth, and of course the youtful think that the stodgy old folks don't get it because they don't see the "new way" but every now and then you get that one old person that sits down, has a chat, and enlightens a few generations by the action.
I read this and I am not ignorant enough to see that the underlying point of this persons views has merit; it's just that this person gives to much weight to it. The thing that struck my nerve was that not only should newbies not be responsible for their actions but the more priviledged knowledgeable ones should make accomodations and concessions for the newbies. I can assure you that if you read the original article it sounds likes the "Linux gurus" went ape shit but the part that was left out was the same person blasting the same questions in every channel, message board, and newsgroup over and over. It also neglected the part where the person who went ballistic actually has 10+ years experience and has to listen to someone who knows nothing argue about something they know nothing about. Not one time did this person take the time to google and see Results 1 - 10 of about 25,600,000 for setting up webserver linux. (0.29 seconds) That's a lot of hits...And what's more is that a good portion of it is duplicated thus proving my point about people even trying.
I can honestly say that there isn't a single question I have asked or could have asked on IRC that isn't answered by a quick visit to google. All that being said I will still help someone that displays the smallest amount of effort on their part...And surprise - no flames with it.
Beggers can't be choosers. (If you have nothing to offer you shouldn't be demanding)
Anything worth having requires work. (You learn to apreciate and value that which takes effort)
Never take any one source as Bible. (Learn to expand your own mind by being open to ideas)
"And how much effort would it have taken to have courteously replied with that exact piece of information instead of a snub?"
How much effort? Not too much really...But then combined with doing 50 time over in the matter of a few hours it does tend to become effort. So you make a FAQ, if for nothing else than to stop repeating yourself. Of course it doesn't stop you from repeating yourself because there you are, repeating yourself. What to do? You make a topic complete with hyperlinks and a very short and direct point about the problem and to read this first. So now you are directing them to a topic, that can direct them to a FAQ, that can direct them yet even more places for in depth information - just as sure as I am typing this you will be repeating everything regardless...Multiplied times a healthy number of newbies who will rinse, lather, repeat.
How much effort? Well I am changing my answer to a lot less than it took to learn the damn thing myself...And sometimes I don't even have a need to learn it! (Read as I have been able to learn something I don't even use and get others up and running)
Lets just face a very real and simple fact: Some of you people just aren't smart enough to run Linux...Some of you shouldn't be running Windows either. Am I Linux snob? Are you the reason the internet boggs down from the congestion of the latest windows worm? My advice - go buy a Mac.
Really? As opposed to any other *nix distros that uses lilo or grub? Or do you mean that you DO NOT have to install Windows first THEN your other non-windows operating systems? Curious what makes SuSE stand out in this instance. Windows has always been a pain in regard to playing nice with anything non-windows it touches - and this isn't a group think /. moronic troll, just the simple truth...Like installing Windows AFTER you have some other OS installed.
"If you have two engineers who you will never see, doing the same job and one will cost you half as much what would you choose?"
A CTO that cost six times more than both combined and knows less than a fraction of either.
submit != preview
(D'oh!)
I meant to add that Linux users probably due more updating of software than any OS around since it "grows" so rapidly due to the model of development, choice, freedoms, etc. I was inferring that the updates are being done because of security breaches alone, which I don't think is the case.
"The reason Linux users don't sweat is because flaws are spotted quickly by many people who read the code, and fixed quickly too."
It leads me to assume as though you are implying that "Linux users" as a whole also UPDATE patched software compared to Windows users which I have a hard time believing personally. I am NOT implying however that Linux users are worse at maintaining updates than Windows users...It would be interesting to know a factual study since many Linux distros as well as Windows provide an almost brain-dead background process of updating a system for you.
Because this still applies.
"...There are more secure options out there you know..."
I think you missed my point entirely. So long as these people have that someone to bail them out they have no incentive to listen to advice; be it advised of anti-virus/spy/adware or running alternative software like a different OS even.
"I am still amazed that people don't get it."
I realize this isn't the sole reason people don't get it but I believe it would make it a noticeable difference: When will the technical people quit rescuing their friends and family concerning the data on these rooted boxes? I would be willing to bet a considerable amount that if these some people lost all their precious photos, music and e-mails that not only would they take a more proactive stance on security, they may also be more vigil about back-ups too.
Dad's computer is running slow again? Aunt's computer keeps blue screening? Instead of installing some spybot/adware cleaner to salvage that install, tell them they lost it all - needs a complete format. Too harsh? It's called tough love and you probably got it as a child too when you didn't want to learn. All to often these same people have a friend or family memeber that is a "comtpuer guru" that can fix anything; why should they learn to be responsible with such an easy out?
Otherwise known as "idiots."
I mean, really. If you fall into that category, what distinguishes you from a monkey pressing a lever?
On a long enough timeline of exposure to different situations in life we are all idiots by your criteria, instead of just being ignorant of a particular situation. Idiot has a connotation of being mentally retarded and unable to improve where being ignorant is a lack of education or knowledge.
I would not call you an idiot for being unable to descern the two terms; just ignorant - if you can't grasp this after the knowledge parted with you then you may well be an idiot. Hope this helps!
"I suspect that the Open Invention Network was set up to defend against this very possibility. If Microsoft makes a move the alliance will use their patents to counter. Which the companies involved have a pretty comprehensive portfolio."
This sounds like a Star Wars plot only better. Too bad you can't have voice over sound effects of snythetic breathing and symphonic music of the Imperial march theme.
Darth SourceSafe: "The IP is strong in this one"
Ob1_compile to
Luke SyntaxWalker: "Luke, use the source"
I need more sleep...
I personally do not care for Microsoft BUT I think it serves a purpose*
"will be more capable of a move to alternatives and will be at the right age and income bracket on a large scale."
I am unable to parse this statement as a whole, moving on...
"Pretty much anyone 40+ that don't use computers at work only use it for email, and right now all the 40+ people know or care about is Windows."
I will not pick a nit other than to say that you can remove the "40+" and regex it with "average computer user or below" and be even more accurate.
*As a programmer, I do not care for Microsoft's platform and would be glad to school you on any underlying platform technologies that have been pushed by Microsoft, pick your poison for debate. Sorry, I don't see innovation on a technical level from the company in general as a whole but I am impressed in other aspects of Microsofts achievments, namely market/business, copius blunders and uncanny ablitity to recover and still be able to throw around a word like innovative. That being said I am thankful that Microsoft is around to cater to all my friends, family, and customers who aren't like me or my peers that I am impressed with.
"Thing is dude" - how have you said anything I haven't already? Your comment was pretty much my point. My apologies if I am missing yours.
Could it be something like an incorrect configuration file for it? ...Perhaps say doing math difference on swap when there isn't any enabled for example.
Unix and its variants cater to the technical minded people. Written by programmers for programmers. For example well behaved programs don't babble on success, very terse documentation geared towards like minded people who know and are willing to research concepts further. A technically superior product for people that program and maintain networked systems and infrastructures..
Windows has a different value system. Windows caters to the non-technical minded people like the average Joe Sixpack, Grandma, etc. For example, user feedback by dialog boxes and progress indicators to let Grandma know the "doo-hickey" she clicked on will eventually open her e-mail, plus knows the average Joe will not read help page after help page for the most part so documentation is geared towards people who won't remember the contents of the previous page of information. A technically superior product for the average person with no technical computer skills that are task oriented.
To say Vista is "not people ready" would indeed be a true statement if security and stability are at the core of Vista unlike any other attempt Microsoft as made. To put it simply you can't have Windows with Unix power and vice versa without compromising some of the core principles of where these platforms came from. An example is the MacOS X - they have taken parts of Unix and meshed with the working parts of Windows excluding the suck parts of Unix and Windows; but it doesn't behave like either to the Unix power user nor to the Windows power user.
This is the biggest challenge Microsft faces now with healthy competition. If Joe Six pack and Grandma have to get smarter then why wouldn't they consider Macs or some Unix variant at some point? Reminds me a lot of how AOL works in conjunction with people as they "mature" about internet usage...
Of course others did, and they still do to my knowledge. My intention wasn't to paint a picture that only Google does this but more to say even if they spin it that way, the company doesn't have much of a case as you just pointed out.
Seems like the case would have merit if Google picked at random that this business was unjustly targetted for punishment, failure to pay an extortion fee for rankings, etc. A more realistic scenario is that this company probably tried to do something to unfairly get its pages ranked higher, which does happen and Google will not deny that when an entity is caught there are consequences. It probably isn't too strange a coincedence that this comes at a time when Google is being plastered all over the headlines (Federal Judge denies Google hand over keywords, etc) this company thought it might be slick, found out it wasn't.
Basic behavior you're taught in kindergarten - play nice with others or get punished.
I would think that they have Google Backup. Beta of course...And only employees can be invited.
I am out of mod points today but I would have thrown one your way - that was funny.
Is this anything like the hacker versus cracker? I'm not criticizing your standpoint more so than saying that people can complain hackers are good, crackers are bad. The public perception, and reality is, crackers are thin crisp wafers or biscuit; not some rogue hacker with malicious intent.
Worms, trojans, viruses - pretty sure this will fall under the above: For the technical minded and educated these are indeed very different things. The masses will lump the nomenclature of each together as synonyms for all.
Ovaltine? A crummy commercial? Son of a bitch!
A little re-arrangement of words:
/.
Many things does it
but from Microsoft it is
be good must it not
Now instead of haiku (on topic within the context of Origami) you get mod points for sounding like an insightful 400 year old Jedi Knight here on