But you still avoided the main issue. Why I can't sprint & shot in a third person shooter? I do these type of things on movies, so... why not in a game?
Also, play Mass Effect 2. EVERYTHING is a cover. The whole map of the game is made of cover areas. Is like a Doom2 map made of barrels on fire. I think this "shot from cover" gameplay break the inmersion, is too "gamey" and result on a very artificial, predictible, (and imho) boring gameplay.
My comment is not a troll, but don't deserve a 2 either. I was talking (mostly) to myself. Yours is very interesting, so pleased mods, mod parent up!.
Maybe "Gears of War 3" sounds much like a twist of the formula, and we know this will not be true. Is also not 3.0, we know will use the same engine, maybe with minor buffs. A more honest name could be "Gears of War: Episode 3".
A ironic name will be "Gears of War, Episode 3: shot from cover", or "Gears of War, Episode 3: Run, Sprint, Shot..choose only one" based on the limitations of the FPS genre on the console where a especial cover system is added, to let players choose one action, to cope with the unability to do two things at once.
Telefónica is like neandertal people, really. I have read some declarations from the director, and I was forced to check the date.. I was like a talk from the dictator Franco. And France Telecom is everything that is wrong with corportations plus everything that is wrong by govern owned industry.
Id Software did the open source thing, and now lots of games use the engine. Unreal never did that, It was midly succesfull. Unity opened (as in beer) the engine to attract dev's, soon after that Unreal opened his sdk too (almost like in beer, but no). Seems Crytek (that have a amazing good engine) want to do the same thing: create a population of cheap workers that have experience on his engine.
Theres a formula to make AAA games that is: Students + Middleware + lots of money = AAA game. It only make sense if you have very good middleware, and these unskilled labor (the students) already have some experience with these middleware so are somewhat proficient. These AAA games are generic blockbusters, but since the marketing budget will be also huge, its a "hit" and get your money back, and more. And I don't think everyone can pull a game with this formula.
It will take years to optimize HTML5 to something comparable to Flash. And maybe it will still be a bit slower than Flash. The point is not speed. The point is not scripting. Scripting is as bad if not worst, than a binary stream vectorial format. The points is a document model, that is easier to examine by bots and archivers, that can be modified by external tools, that can be linked, and all the good and cool features we have learn a Hyper Text have.
A binary stream of bits that render vectorial stuff is not fun, because you can't do much with these bits. A greasemonkey script is fun, google page rank search engine is fun.
Even if Flash is fast, a what price?, you have to support a separate things, with his own memory management and probably bugs. And is not that good either, Linux users have bad experience with Flash banners that take the 100% of the CPU.
Having everything following the document model (dom), any optimization made will touch all. Any optimization on the memory handling will affect all. Any safety mechanism. Updating the browser will update the rendering of such canvas thing, or svg thing.
I don't think Flash game dev's will move to HTML5 in 5 or 8 years. Flash will still be more interesting. But there will be a "leak" of the good features of Flash into the web, so the web will get whatever good we have learn from Flash. So Flash will not be required for some things. At a point, you will not *need* Flash. Needing Flash is *mucho* wrong, and we DO NOT WANT.
Some people will argue that "Flash-like" features in the web are bad news. These people are right. Animated banners in HTML5 are not better than in Flash. But with a better model, these will be more easy to control, limit, optimize. And people want these Flash features. I serve no one to ignore that Flash add value to the web. We will steal (with HTML5 and SVG and Canvas) part of these value, to make the web AWESOME.
The problem is that people like Sony and Microsoft are soo greedy, that want to control *everything* you say and do. Do you want to use a name with the letters "gay"? banned till 9/9/9999.
All these people (MS, Sony...) want to work in the "Bridge Tol" bussines. Just getting a piece for everything that moves in "his" hardware. Parasiting the work of others.
My main problem with IE is not speed, is rather fast. The real problem with IE is how broken, unsafe and unstandard is. Making it faster, will just make it faster to infect computers, show poorly rendered pages, and ignoring standard CSS3 keys.
var node = document.createElement("I"); var n = document.createElement("disagree"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("there"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("is"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("a"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("missing"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("parenthesis"); node.appendChild(n); n = document.createElement("somewhere"); node.appendChild(n); ..
Ignore the whole article. Or anything after "Theres no standard".
The real thing here, is that some game dev's have moved to the console, where can live easier, can "monetize" everything than on the PC is free. These dev's want the PC platform to die, and are badmounthing it. Just ignore these people.
The PC platform is in good state, and is evolving, theres less of the AAA "megablockbuster generic shooter" games, and more indie and "small" games with genuine original ideas. PC gaming is evolving to a market of Culture and Quality. While the Console platform and these developers are evolving to a remake of the Hollywood culture.
Some people like Blockbusters like Independence Day(HALO), other people like 'smaller' movies like District 9 (Stalker). There are more in Stalker than where you will ever get from Halo.
Another reason to attack the PC platform, is that theres a type of gamer, the fanboy, that really like to read about how correct is his decission to love a platform, and how wrong is to choose other platforms, or like more other platforms. Badmounting the PC platform is lame fan service.
If PC gaming is dyiing, then probably Steam will close soon, Ok? do it look like Steam is the wrong thing and will close soon?
Maybe the future of consoles is Steam, a service like Steam to download games from internet, socialize, and things. The market of the very noise MegaBlockbuster Teenager Generic Shooter is not that big anyway. For every FPS gamer, there are 3 RTS gamers/players and 8 puzzle players. Hell... there are 85 million of FarmVille players. How much people play Halo 2 or BF2 now on the console?
This is not the gamification that seems in vogue betwen game dev's.
The one that is too popular, is the use of "MMORPG" adiction to everything. Give tiny rewards for completing boring task, to train people to LIKE to grind. And it works. Imagine a framework around your work, where you get and complete quest (task) and get XP for these quest, and level up, and stuff like that.
It looks to me, from the video, that the military detected or gueses weapon like rpg and ak47.
Soldiers are (probably) trained to shot to other army people. This could be a false positive, but in a battlefield, is best to shot to something like a tractor, than to get shot by a tank.
The problem here is having a militar force patroling a city. Thats whas WTF about it. But maybe you can't have something less letal than this so, false positives will happend.
If flash games are made on the Flash studio, then I don't think flash will go away easyly. Theres a lot of expertise already on flash. But if people is using platforms like Flex, maybe, and only maybe, is easy for these people to move to different stuff that is not that different. Since Flash run in actionscript and actionscript is Javascript, then maybe, and only maybe, these people would see as "easy" to switch, or test the other platform. Who knows?
Anyway I doubt WebGL is part of any standard that will be widely available, more widelly availbale than the unstandard that is flash.
There are rumours of Nexuiz in Google Chrome OS, but Nexuiz is not Quake2, is a very high intensive opengl app, so It will need a rather good graphic card to run.
The key here is why Second Life is popular for journalist. How is that? is a very minor game, played by few people, that hype his number of accounts to pretend is big, still it get frontpage news often. Why is that? Is not that journalist are stupid, is that theres a type of people where the virtual reality is much more atractive than something abstract. The abstract shotter mean *nothing* to these people. A game played by 80 millions is ignored, by one played by 120.000 becuase the first one is abstract, so It don't make sense to these people.
I don't claim the people that play realistic shotters can't play abstract shotters. I claim that theres a bias, a preference for the realist one. The realist one has more meaning, it make sense to these people, much more than the abstract one.
I will not say this is good or bad, but I will say is boring to see lots of similar raycasting engines. Theres very small variation *IN* the realistic shotter. The technology is not there to produce good voxel FPS's, or cartoon rendering FPS's (other than maybe Borderlands). Not all abstraction will be good, but we live in a world where most videogames look alike, and try a type of realism, variation here will be rather good:-)
Flash is like the dishonest brother, that has managed a fortune, and have sexy girls, cheating and stealing money. While HTML is the honest brother, that is hardworking, and respect all rules.
One want the dishonest brother to fail hard. What is around, gets around, and Flash sure, deserve a painfull death. The technology is a pure WTF. A binary object stream in my text based internet protocols? But Adobe has managed to make people angry, by producing half-assed versions of the plugin. Maybe here the thing to blame is the very idea of a plugin. Will you want a monocultive of a single binary on all computers with who knows what bugs in all computers? What could have fixed that? maybe different clients, but that is something that would have created worse and different problems. So the plugin thing is un-fixable. Is just a idea that was not good. Only 2 plugins managed to get universal support, flash and java, and only flash is universally usefull, and for a unintended purpose: streaming video. Now.. seems is doing a good work at it, at the expense of poor perfomance on different machines than the ones Adobe seems to test his plugin.
You could convert a library into a cybercafe or a disco, and that may atract more/different type of people. But thats not really atracting more people to a library, more like atracting people to a cybercafe/disco that use to be a library.
The idea sould be make the library more interesting, that could be adding a cybercafe to it, anything really, but thats that "fit" the existing things, so the core of the experience is not damaged.
If you want to make a romantic sci-fi movie, your first step can't be to drop the romantic and science fiction part of it. There are parts of things that are esential to the experience, you sould never make concesions on core values, because the result will not be great. A Disco or a cybercafe will not make concesions, or only where it not affect the core experience, as a result most Disco or Cybercafes are great.
Games made for consoles, must have smaller maps than the PC version. The games that are created for both platforms use the small size. Also, since the pad is a poor control method, the console games stuff like inventory and skills are limited. Tons of games have a limit of 4 skills, just because the pad use the 4 directions of the digital pad to select these skills. With the PC you would normally use 9 or more.
But not all "streamlining" or all "dumbing down" is bad. Making this for more people, not just the experts and vets, is good, making this easy to use is good. AND the PC will never lost the deep of gameplay that the console people can't ever dream off. So the PC will have the best of the console, and the best of his heritage.
You just have to avoid games born on the console, because these are shallow, dumb and boring, and with lame mechanics like Quick Time Events and Savepoints.
I want this. How I can get that? I have already tried to recompile the network driver in promiscuos mode. But all I get is the packets of other peers on my lan:-/,:-I ,:-),:-O
The PC market is much bigger. The problem here is that is moving to digital, where is invisible to the usual metric systems. Also is "multishape", games like FarmVille get 80 millions. How much million play most console games? on the PC, you have to count webgames, flashgames, casual games, indie games, open source games... not everything shows on a phisic shop, since most are online transactions.
I mostly agre... Is true, this type of gameplay was popular 10 years ago. Nowdays? no soo much.. and on the console is almost nowhere to be seen.
People is free to make whatever want, and this type of comunities want Quake3-like games, so thats what you get. If you don't like that, get a compiler and make a fork.
And I hope the community follows. And Xenotic be great.
I don't really like the style of artwork on the original Nexuiz, and I think a "reboot" could be a good thing, even if is just a tiny fork that after some time die. Forks can also get merged on the main tree, so no work will be wasted, I think.
"Also, what's the history regarding licensing of the content (artwork, levels, models, etc)? - These are all clearly "new" developments that have little to no traceability back to the original iD release, since the original content of Quake was NOT covered in the GPL release. Have all content contributors approved this?"
I think nothing of the original art from Quake will be in use. Its very old art, low resolution stuff, 256 colors.. you don't really want to go there. I have read that are tryiing to license some maps made by community menbers, maps that are already a "classic" or are very interesting maps, you want to play on the console Nexuiz.. Hell.. maps are about a 70% of what "made" a FPS. Is a separate thing to the engine thing, but probably will be handled in a similar way. If fail to adquire the rights to one map, will just ignore that map. Anyway from the videos and screenshots seems everything has been remade with a fresh and very modern style. Thinks Tron Legacy meets Unreal.
Slashdot Mirror
Your comment is very good. Full of substance.
But you still avoided the main issue. Why I can't sprint & shot in a third person shooter? I do these type of things on movies, so ... why not in a game?
Also, play Mass Effect 2. EVERYTHING is a cover. The whole map of the game is made of cover areas. Is like a Doom2 map made of barrels on fire. I think this "shot from cover" gameplay break the inmersion, is too "gamey" and result on a very artificial, predictible, (and imho) boring gameplay.
My comment is not a troll, but don't deserve a 2 either. I was talking (mostly) to myself. Yours is very interesting, so pleased mods, mod parent up!.
Maybe "Gears of War 3" sounds much like a twist of the formula, and we know this will not be true. Is also not 3.0, we know will use the same engine, maybe with minor buffs. A more honest name could be "Gears of War: Episode 3".
A ironic name will be "Gears of War, Episode 3: shot from cover", or "Gears of War, Episode 3: Run, Sprint, Shot..choose only one" based on the limitations of the FPS genre on the console where a especial cover system is added, to let players choose one action, to cope with the unability to do two things at once.
Humm.. no. Google for "AAA games". And about all the others, seems gramaticall errors. I make lots of these, sorry :(
Telefónica is like neandertal people, really. I have read some declarations from the director, and I was forced to check the date.. I was like a talk from the dictator Franco. And France Telecom is everything that is wrong with corportations plus everything that is wrong by govern owned industry.
Can these two companys die, please?
Id Software did the open source thing, and now lots of games use the engine.
Unreal never did that, It was midly succesfull.
Unity opened (as in beer) the engine to attract dev's, soon after that Unreal opened his sdk too (almost like in beer, but no).
Seems Crytek (that have a amazing good engine) want to do the same thing: create a population of cheap workers that have experience on his engine.
Theres a formula to make AAA games that is:
Students + Middleware + lots of money = AAA game.
It only make sense if you have very good middleware, and these unskilled labor (the students) already have some experience with these middleware so are somewhat proficient.
These AAA games are generic blockbusters, but since the marketing budget will be also huge, its a "hit" and get your money back, and more. And I don't think everyone can pull a game with this formula.
It will take years to optimize HTML5 to something comparable to Flash. And maybe it will still be a bit slower than Flash. The point is not speed. The point is not scripting. Scripting is as bad if not worst, than a binary stream vectorial format. The points is a document model, that is easier to examine by bots and archivers, that can be modified by external tools, that can be linked, and all the good and cool features we have learn a Hyper Text have.
A binary stream of bits that render vectorial stuff is not fun, because you can't do much with these bits. A greasemonkey script is fun, google page rank search engine is fun.
Even if Flash is fast, a what price?, you have to support a separate things, with his own memory management and probably bugs. And is not that good either, Linux users have bad experience with Flash banners that take the 100% of the CPU.
Having everything following the document model (dom), any optimization made will touch all. Any optimization on the memory handling will affect all. Any safety mechanism. Updating the browser will update the rendering of such canvas thing, or svg thing.
I don't think Flash game dev's will move to HTML5 in 5 or 8 years. Flash will still be more interesting. But there will be a "leak" of the good features of Flash into the web, so the web will get whatever good we have learn from Flash. So Flash will not be required for some things. At a point, you will not *need* Flash. Needing Flash is *mucho* wrong, and we DO NOT WANT.
Some people will argue that "Flash-like" features in the web are bad news. These people are right. Animated banners in HTML5 are not better than in Flash. But with a better model, these will be more easy to control, limit, optimize.
And people want these Flash features. I serve no one to ignore that Flash add value to the web. We will steal (with HTML5 and SVG and Canvas) part of these value, to make the web AWESOME.
The PC is the Unique Gamming Platform.
The problem is that people like Sony and Microsoft are soo greedy, that want to control *everything* you say and do. Do you want to use a name with the letters "gay"? banned till 9/9/9999.
All these people (MS, Sony...) want to work in the "Bridge Tol" bussines. Just getting a piece for everything that moves in "his" hardware. Parasiting the work of others.
He... It make sense, since "Hardware is cheap and programers are expensive".
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/hardware-is-cheap-programmers-are-expensive.html
My main problem with IE is not speed, is rather fast. The real problem with IE is how broken, unsafe and unstandard is. Making it faster, will just make it faster to infect computers, show poorly rendered pages, and ignoring standard CSS3 keys.
Look at this tables, the support for CSS3:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc351024(VS.85).aspx
var node = document.createElement("I");
var n = document.createElement("disagree");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("there");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("is");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("a");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("missing");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("parenthesis");
node.appendChild(n);
n = document.createElement("somewhere");
node.appendChild(n);
..
Ignore the whole article. Or anything after "Theres no standard".
The real thing here, is that some game dev's have moved to the console, where can live easier, can "monetize" everything than on the PC is free. These dev's want the PC platform to die, and are badmounthing it. Just ignore these people.
The PC platform is in good state, and is evolving, theres less of the AAA "megablockbuster generic shooter" games, and more indie and "small" games with genuine original ideas. PC gaming is evolving to a market of Culture and Quality. While the Console platform and these developers are evolving to a remake of the Hollywood culture.
Some people like Blockbusters like Independence Day(HALO), other people like 'smaller' movies like District 9 (Stalker). There are more in Stalker than where you will ever get from Halo.
Another reason to attack the PC platform, is that theres a type of gamer, the fanboy, that really like to read about how correct is his decission to love a platform, and how wrong is to choose other platforms, or like more other platforms. Badmounting the PC platform is lame fan service.
If PC gaming is dyiing, then probably Steam will close soon, Ok? do it look like Steam is the wrong thing and will close soon?
Maybe the future of consoles is Steam, a service like Steam to download games from internet, socialize, and things. The market of the very noise MegaBlockbuster Teenager Generic Shooter is not that big anyway. For every FPS gamer, there are 3 RTS gamers/players and 8 puzzle players. Hell... there are 85 million of FarmVille players. How much people play Halo 2 or BF2 now on the console?
This is not the gamification that seems in vogue betwen game dev's.
The one that is too popular, is the use of "MMORPG" adiction to everything. Give tiny rewards for completing boring task, to train people to LIKE to grind. And it works. Imagine a framework around your work, where you get and complete quest (task) and get XP for these quest, and level up, and stuff like that.
It looks to me, from the video, that the military detected or gueses weapon like rpg and ak47.
Soldiers are (probably) trained to shot to other army people. This could be a false positive, but in a battlefield, is best to shot to something like a tractor, than to get shot by a tank.
The problem here is having a militar force patroling a city. Thats whas WTF about it. But maybe you can't have something less letal than this so, false positives will happend.
If flash games are made on the Flash studio, then I don't think flash will go away easyly. Theres a lot of expertise already on flash. But if people is using platforms like Flex, maybe, and only maybe, is easy for these people to move to different stuff that is not that different. Since Flash run in actionscript and actionscript is Javascript, then maybe, and only maybe, these people would see as "easy" to switch, or test the other platform.
Who knows?
Anyway I doubt WebGL is part of any standard that will be widely available, more widelly availbale than the unstandard that is flash.
There are rumours of Nexuiz in Google Chrome OS, but Nexuiz is not Quake2, is a very high intensive opengl app, so It will need a rather good graphic card to run.
*pat in the back* good one Microsoft, now you test your software. What about now to change and respect standards, PLEASE.
The key here is why Second Life is popular for journalist. How is that? is a very minor game, played by few people, that hype his number of accounts to pretend is big, still it get frontpage news often. Why is that? Is not that journalist are stupid, is that theres a type of people where the virtual reality is much more atractive than something abstract. The abstract shotter mean *nothing* to these people. A game played by 80 millions is ignored, by one played by 120.000 becuase the first one is abstract, so It don't make sense to these people.
I don't claim the people that play realistic shotters can't play abstract shotters. I claim that theres a bias, a preference for the realist one. The realist one has more meaning, it make sense to these people, much more than the abstract one.
I will not say this is good or bad, but I will say is boring to see lots of similar raycasting engines. Theres very small variation *IN* the realistic shotter. The technology is not there to produce good voxel FPS's, or cartoon rendering FPS's (other than maybe Borderlands). Not all abstraction will be good, but we live in a world where most videogames look alike, and try a type of realism, variation here will be rather good :-)
Flash is like the dishonest brother, that has managed a fortune, and have sexy girls, cheating and stealing money. While HTML is the honest brother, that is hardworking, and respect all rules.
One want the dishonest brother to fail hard. What is around, gets around, and Flash sure, deserve a painfull death.
The technology is a pure WTF. A binary object stream in my text based internet protocols? But Adobe has managed to make people angry, by producing half-assed versions of the plugin. Maybe here the thing to blame is the very idea of a plugin. Will you want a monocultive of a single binary on all computers with who knows what bugs in all computers? What could have fixed that? maybe different clients, but that is something that would have created worse and different problems. So the plugin thing is un-fixable. Is just a idea that was not good. Only 2 plugins managed to get universal support, flash and java, and only flash is universally usefull, and for a unintended purpose: streaming video. Now.. seems is doing a good work at it, at the expense of poor perfomance on different machines than the ones Adobe seems to test his plugin.
You could convert a library into a cybercafe or a disco, and that may atract more/different type of people. But thats not really atracting more people to a library, more like atracting people to a cybercafe/disco that use to be a library.
The idea sould be make the library more interesting, that could be adding a cybercafe to it, anything really, but thats that "fit" the existing things, so the core of the experience is not damaged.
If you want to make a romantic sci-fi movie, your first step can't be to drop the romantic and science fiction part of it. There are parts of things that are esential to the experience, you sould never make concesions on core values, because the result will not be great. A Disco or a cybercafe will not make concesions, or only where it not affect the core experience, as a result most Disco or Cybercafes are great.
Games made for consoles, must have smaller maps than the PC version. The games that are created for both platforms use the small size. Also, since the pad is a poor control method, the console games stuff like inventory and skills are limited. Tons of games have a limit of 4 skills, just because the pad use the 4 directions of the digital pad to select these skills. With the PC you would normally use 9 or more.
But not all "streamlining" or all "dumbing down" is bad. Making this for more people, not just the experts and vets, is good, making this easy to use is good. AND the PC will never lost the deep of gameplay that the console people can't ever dream off. So the PC will have the best of the console, and the best of his heritage.
You just have to avoid games born on the console, because these are shallow, dumb and boring, and with lame mechanics like Quick Time Events and Savepoints.
I want this. How I can get that? I have already tried to recompile the network driver in promiscuos mode. But all I get is the packets of other peers on my lan :-/, :-I , :-), :-O
The PC market is much bigger. The problem here is that is moving to digital, where is invisible to the usual metric systems. Also is "multishape", games like FarmVille get 80 millions. How much million play most console games? on the PC, you have to count webgames, flashgames, casual games, indie games, open source games... not everything shows on a phisic shop, since most are online transactions.
I mostly agre... Is true, this type of gameplay was popular 10 years ago.
Nowdays? no soo much.. and on the console is almost nowhere to be seen.
People is free to make whatever want, and this type of comunities want Quake3-like games, so thats what you get. If you don't like that, get a compiler and make a fork.
And I hope the community follows. And Xenotic be great.
I don't really like the style of artwork on the original Nexuiz, and I think a "reboot" could be a good thing, even if is just a tiny fork that after some time die. Forks can also get merged on the main tree, so no work will be wasted, I think.
Open source games is the topic.
Could you list 4 open source FPS games? other than Open Arena, Alien Arena and Cube, please.
"Also, what's the history regarding licensing of the content (artwork, levels, models, etc)? - These are all clearly "new" developments that have little to no traceability back to the original iD release, since the original content of Quake was NOT covered in the GPL release. Have all content contributors approved this?"
I think nothing of the original art from Quake will be in use. Its very old art, low resolution stuff, 256 colors.. you don't really want to go there. I have read that are tryiing to license some maps made by community menbers, maps that are already a "classic" or are very interesting maps, you want to play on the console Nexuiz.. Hell.. maps are about a 70% of what "made" a FPS. Is a separate thing to the engine thing, but probably will be handled in a similar way. If fail to adquire the rights to one map, will just ignore that map.
Anyway from the videos and screenshots seems everything has been remade with a fresh and very modern style. Thinks Tron Legacy meets Unreal.