I think that the reference is to exclusion of gays. The "christian values" mention gave me that. I'm not sure I'd put an all-white social club together with the KKK, having different agendas, so I probably wouldn't put them in with the BSA either, but, hey, it's his/her life and his/her opinion.
It is relatively easy to use XDM "choosers" to get around this fact. DHCP + NFS server, two or more X servers, and specific application servers for resource hungry apps will virtually eliminate the problems you mention. The DHCP server goes down and it's easy to temporarily enable the ready-to-go service on one of the other machines. Redundant X servers, capable of doubling as app servers but not doing so unless in an emergency will generally not stop the office on failure of one machine, but may cause a temporary slowdown while the problem is being fixed.
As to your maintenance problems, how is this different than fat clients, and why would you not be able to incrementally upgrade during the day. I do it all the time on a running system. Put in a new NFS structure, change the DHCP entry, restart the services, and next reboot of the thin clients, your maintenance is done.
That is why you get a large application server and use the power of X to open that application remotely. Kind of a per-application terminal server. Use even lower spec machines and go thin client totally, like Ernie Ball did. OO.o has chinese localized versions. Perhaps you should get your outsourced company (being that you are paying the bills) to use that, so that MSOffice is not required at all. Am I off base here?
But he did have lots of reasons. I'll list them below after I'm finished. Sometimes, however, people make a moral stand on something. He is a family owned business (at least the FA says so), and so it is his right to lead it in a way that he feels is correct. He is not beholden to shareholders or the bottom line. He wanted to make a stand on an issue (being raided with no volutary audit then being held up as an example for the world to see) and so threw everything into the mixer and came out with margaritas. I say good for him!
The end reasons for the swith:
It's so funny--in three and half years, we went from being these idiots that were thinking emotionally rather than businesslike...to now we're smart and talking to tech guys.
I know I saved $80,000 right away by going to open source, and each time something like (Windows) XP comes along, I save even more money because I don't have to buy new equipment to run the software. One of the great things is that we're able to run a poor man's thin client by using old computers we weren't using before because it couldn't handle Windows 2000. They work fine with the software we have now.
One of the analysts said it costs $1,250 per person to change over to open source. It wasn't anywhere near that for us. I'm reluctant to give actual numbers. I can give any number I want to support my position, and so can the other guy. But I'll tell you, I'm not paying any per-seat license. I'm not buying any new computers. When we need something, we have white box systems we put together ourselves. It doesn't need to be much of a system for most of what we do.
What about the cost of dealing with a virus? We don't have 'em.
How about when we do have a problem, you don't have to send some guy to a corner of the building to find out what's going on--he never leaves his desk, because everything's server-based.
If all you need is word processing, that's all you're going to have on your desktop, a word processor. It's not going to have Paint or PowerPoint. I tell you what, our hits to eBay went down greatly when not everybody had a Web browser. For somebody whose job is filling out forms all day, invoicing and exporting, why do they need a Web browser? The idea that if you have 2,000 terminals they all have to have a Web browser, that's crazy. It just creates distractions.
Look, when you've got Windows 98 not being supported, NT not being supported, OS/2 not being supported--if you're a decision maker in the IT field, you need to be able to look at Linux as something that's going to continue to be supported. It's a major consideration when you're making those decisions.
Microsoft and some analysts will tell you about all the support calls and service problems. That's hysterical. Have they worked in my office? I can find out how many calls my guys have made to Red Hat, but I'm pretty sure the answer is none or close to it...It just doesn't crash as much as Windows. And I don't have to buy new computers every time they come out with a new release and abandon the old one.
I'm definitely money ahead now and I'm definitely just as productive, and I don't have any problems communicating with my customers. So thank you, Microsoft.
He's using a thin client setup, limiting his employees applications to increase productivity, lowering his downtime, and decreasing his support and hardware budgets. I'd say those are good enough reasons.
That's because "in the old days," at least in america, it was a law called "equal time." They had to give balanced views. That law was removed, and the tabloid TV show was born.
LinuxTLE! Now you've heard of one. Actually, there are several, with Connectiva being the fist, if I'm not mistaken. They have been available for quite some time now, so you should've dropped it "back yonder."
If you are referring to the terms "premillenialist" and "postmillenialist," in the slashdot summary, these terms refer to different doctrines of Christianity. If you were not, then don't read further.
These terms deal with the second coming of Christ and whether his faithful sheep will be pulled from the Earth before or after his arrival. For those that have heard of the rapture, and some NYT best seller series written off of them (can't remember / don't care) the subjects are closely related.
This is dying, though, isn't it? It's the reason for seeing the phrase "a thousand million," which so confuses Americans, and yet many British are unaware of the non-American meaning.
Why did you choose PhProjekt? Did you compare it to PhPGroupware? Can you give some more details? Groupware is one of the sticking points for deployment of Linux in the workplace. If we can get over this hurdle and accounting software, we will be mostly home.
etting rid of the dumb terminal was the foundation of the late 20th century capitalism.
Dumb terminals generally failed because of limits in network topology. The speed was just unacceptable for large numbers of clients in a GUI framework. This is no longer the case with gigabit cards. Things happen almost instantaneously on the screen.
Moving to fat terminals happened first in small businesses, which could not afford the mainframe then needed. It later caught braindead momentum and moved into large networks. Currently, servers capable of handling small offices are well within cost reach of these businesses, and previously expensive thin clients have been completely commoditized, mostly by Linux and BSD.
The late 20th century was a boon to the computer industry because of fat clients, but I don't believe anyone has (or even can) show that the results of this move exceeded staying on a thin client model.
If you think dumbterms are so great, use one yourself first.
I do, and so do a lot of schools and small businesses. The momentum for thin clients is waxing, not waning. I can set up a base system, including networking and failover, for eight clients for under 60,000 Baht, or about $US1400 for the whole setup. It is set to become an official project of the ICT Ministry here.
Thin clients are far from dead! This 20% market in the workplace will probably come in large part from them.
Read my post again. I said pre-workstation autologins. That means that my clients all share the same gdm server, and I would like workstation01 to autologin as user user01, while workstation02 logs in as user02. This can't be done with GDM. Trust me on this.
GDM doesn't kill processes from logged out users correctly, which KDM does. KDM also allows a per workstation auto-login.
These are the two major reasons that LTSP folks ditch it almost immediately. I don't want all the KDE libs loaded all the time, so I use XDM. Minimal, for sure.
Well, it does a lot of stuff... you might not use it all, but it's there.
That's why I went to the less able ROX-filer RTFM? Try "gnome-cd-properties". This isn't nautilus' fault in the first place.
Since I'm not using it in Gnome, I didn't think to read the Gnome pages, but I did read the info on Nautilus Then you haven't really closed it now, have you? What do you think is managing your desktop? If you don't like it, there's always KDE, or TWM if you'd prefer...
Well, I had thought that I was using icewm, and that if I wanted to browse some files, I could use nautilus, but I was wrong. Nautilus takes over the whole desktop, placing icons. Again, the reason I went to ROX, so I didn't have to deal with having some monstrous program taking over my desktop just to browse the filesystem and launch files. Finally:
You haven't really answered my questions, now have you, nor did the article. I am honestly curious. I would like to see a Gnome that is less heavy on resources. Is that happening?
not flamebait
Does it fix any of those annoying problems in the current versions like:
Nautilus takes an ungodly amount of memory to run
It can't seem to associate file type with applications consistently
It has that annoying "feature" where any time I insert removable media, it opens a window of the media automatically. (I was going to bitch about it mounting automatically, as well, but I suspect that's RH's doing, there: god, sometimes I want to dd, you know)
You close it and it still takes up the same ungodly amount of memory. If I want that kind of behavior, I'll look for it in Windows, thank you.
No. Keeping the lid down allows you to be lazy and change nothing about the way you do things, while I have to change the way that I have been peeing since I was two years old. Why don't we eliminate the lid, and make a catheter for it, so that you can pee standing up, too? That's not fair?
On a more serious note, an example of a good compromise would be to check before you poo or pee, just like I do, and change the configuration accordingly. Do exactly what I have to do every time, anyway. You don't change the way you do things significantly, and neither do I. Neither of us demands that the other be our toilet servant
It isn't only me, my girlfriend thinks 1) you're a princess, 2) you probably want me to wipe for you, too, and 3) you need a stupid sign. Her words, not mine. Quit expecting compromise to come mostly from the other side, and you'd do better.
As an aside, I always put the seat down when I was married, because I wanted to coexist with her, but it is a symptom of severe selfishness to demand it.
My point was that it is an incredibly selfish argument, similar in character to a two year old's. Just check the seat before you sit down, like I check the seat before I either sit down or pee standing up, because if I don't check, there's hell to pay either way.
Yeah, I never bought this argument from my ex. I sit on the toilet all the time, and I never fall in. Somehow, I always manage to check first. Your laziness is not my problem, but if you want to insist, we can be fair, and I demand that you help me not pee on the seat by raising it after every flush, or I can't guarantee the results.
I can guarantee you that if you do something for 60 hours a week you're going to get sick of it, regardless of what it is.
I'm sorry for you, but that's bullshit for a lot of people in the world. I have spent most of my life working longer than 60 hours, and when I am doing something I love, like cooking or being in front of a computer, I have no problem with it. Neither did my father with flying. It's a concept I call pay per subjective hour (PSH). Something you like to do that pays less almost always makes you more (PSH) than something you don't like to do which pays more.
It's also the reason people code all day and then go home to work on their "hobby" code.
Ironic is aready an adjective: there is no need to add -al to it. What? Do you think you are in a rock band or something? (obscure reference). Please see associated/. story for further details.
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Did you mean to reply to me? I don't understand the connection.
I think that the reference is to exclusion of gays. The "christian values" mention gave me that. I'm not sure I'd put an all-white social club together with the KKK, having different agendas, so I probably wouldn't put them in with the BSA either, but, hey, it's his/her life and his/her opinion.
You haven't read my jounal, have you?
It is relatively easy to use XDM "choosers" to get around this fact. DHCP + NFS server, two or more X servers, and specific application servers for resource hungry apps will virtually eliminate the problems you mention. The DHCP server goes down and it's easy to temporarily enable the ready-to-go service on one of the other machines. Redundant X servers, capable of doubling as app servers but not doing so unless in an emergency will generally not stop the office on failure of one machine, but may cause a temporary slowdown while the problem is being fixed.
As to your maintenance problems, how is this different than fat clients, and why would you not be able to incrementally upgrade during the day. I do it all the time on a running system. Put in a new NFS structure, change the DHCP entry, restart the services, and next reboot of the thin clients, your maintenance is done.
So, since they dropped the copyright notice, they really don't have the right to use and distribute it, now do they?
That is why you get a large application server and use the power of X to open that application remotely. Kind of a per-application terminal server. Use even lower spec machines and go thin client totally, like Ernie Ball did. OO.o has chinese localized versions. Perhaps you should get your outsourced company (being that you are paying the bills) to use that, so that MSOffice is not required at all. Am I off base here?
The end reasons for the swith:
- It's so funny--in three and half years, we went from being these idiots that were thinking emotionally rather than businesslike...to now we're smart and talking to tech guys.
- I know I saved $80,000 right away by going to open source, and each time something like (Windows) XP comes along, I save even more money because I don't have to buy new equipment to run the software. One of the great things is that we're able to run a poor man's thin client by using old computers we weren't using before because it couldn't handle Windows 2000. They work fine with the software we have now.
- One of the analysts said it costs $1,250 per person to change over to open source. It wasn't anywhere near that for us. I'm reluctant to give actual numbers. I can give any number I want to support my position, and so can the other guy. But I'll tell you, I'm not paying any per-seat license. I'm not buying any new computers. When we need something, we have white box systems we put together ourselves. It doesn't need to be much of a system for most of what we do.
- What about the cost of dealing with a virus? We don't have 'em.
- How about when we do have a problem, you don't have to send some guy to a corner of the building to find out what's going on--he never leaves his desk, because everything's server-based.
- If all you need is word processing, that's all you're going to have on your desktop, a word processor. It's not going to have Paint or PowerPoint. I tell you what, our hits to eBay went down greatly when not everybody had a Web browser. For somebody whose job is filling out forms all day, invoicing and exporting, why do they need a Web browser? The idea that if you have 2,000 terminals they all have to have a Web browser, that's crazy. It just creates distractions.
- Look, when you've got Windows 98 not being supported, NT not being supported, OS/2 not being supported--if you're a decision maker in the IT field, you need to be able to look at Linux as something that's going to continue to be supported. It's a major consideration when you're making those decisions.
- Microsoft and some analysts will tell you about all the support calls and service problems. That's hysterical. Have they worked in my office? I can find out how many calls my guys have made to Red Hat, but I'm pretty sure the answer is none or close to it...It just doesn't crash as much as Windows. And I don't have to buy new computers every time they come out with a new release and abandon the old one.
- I'm definitely money ahead now and I'm definitely just as productive, and I don't have any problems communicating with my customers. So thank you, Microsoft.
He's using a thin client setup, limiting his employees applications to increase productivity, lowering his downtime, and decreasing his support and hardware budgets. I'd say those are good enough reasons.That's because "in the old days," at least in america, it was a law called "equal time." They had to give balanced views. That law was removed, and the tabloid TV show was born.
Was this a joke, or did you unintentionally, totally screw the grammar in your grammmar lecture?
LinuxTLE! Now you've heard of one. Actually, there are several, with Connectiva being the fist, if I'm not mistaken. They have been available for quite some time now, so you should've dropped it "back yonder."
If you are referring to the terms "premillenialist" and "postmillenialist," in the slashdot summary, these terms refer to different doctrines of Christianity. If you were not, then don't read further.
These terms deal with the second coming of Christ and whether his faithful sheep will be pulled from the Earth before or after his arrival. For those that have heard of the rapture, and some NYT best seller series written off of them (can't remember / don't care) the subjects are closely related.
This is dying, though, isn't it? It's the reason for seeing the phrase "a thousand million," which so confuses Americans, and yet many British are unaware of the non-American meaning.
Why did you choose PhProjekt? Did you compare it to PhPGroupware? Can you give some more details? Groupware is one of the sticking points for deployment of Linux in the workplace. If we can get over this hurdle and accounting software, we will be mostly home.
etting rid of the dumb terminal was the foundation of the late 20th century capitalism.
Dumb terminals generally failed because of limits in network topology. The speed was just unacceptable for large numbers of clients in a GUI framework. This is no longer the case with gigabit cards. Things happen almost instantaneously on the screen.
Moving to fat terminals happened first in small businesses, which could not afford the mainframe then needed. It later caught braindead momentum and moved into large networks. Currently, servers capable of handling small offices are well within cost reach of these businesses, and previously expensive thin clients have been completely commoditized, mostly by Linux and BSD.
The late 20th century was a boon to the computer industry because of fat clients, but I don't believe anyone has (or even can) show that the results of this move exceeded staying on a thin client model.
If you think dumbterms are so great, use one yourself first.
I do, and so do a lot of schools and small businesses. The momentum for thin clients is waxing, not waning. I can set up a base system, including networking and failover, for eight clients for under 60,000 Baht, or about $US1400 for the whole setup. It is set to become an official project of the ICT Ministry here.
Thin clients are far from dead! This 20% market in the workplace will probably come in large part from them.
Read my post again. I said pre-workstation autologins. That means that my clients all share the same gdm server, and I would like workstation01 to autologin as user user01, while workstation02 logs in as user02. This can't be done with GDM. Trust me on this.
GDM doesn't kill processes from logged out users correctly, which KDM does. KDM also allows a per workstation auto-login.
These are the two major reasons that LTSP folks ditch it almost immediately. I don't want all the KDE libs loaded all the time, so I use XDM. Minimal, for sure.
Well, it does a lot of stuff... you might not use it all, but it's there.
That's why I went to the less able ROX-filer
RTFM? Try "gnome-cd-properties". This isn't nautilus' fault in the first place.
Since I'm not using it in Gnome, I didn't think to read the Gnome pages, but I did read the info on Nautilus
Then you haven't really closed it now, have you? What do you think is managing your desktop? If you don't like it, there's always KDE, or TWM if you'd prefer...
Well, I had thought that I was using icewm, and that if I wanted to browse some files, I could use nautilus, but I was wrong. Nautilus takes over the whole desktop, placing icons. Again, the reason I went to ROX, so I didn't have to deal with having some monstrous program taking over my desktop just to browse the filesystem and launch files.
Finally:
You haven't really answered my questions, now have you, nor did the article. I am honestly curious. I would like to see a Gnome that is less heavy on resources. Is that happening?
Does it fix any of those annoying problems in the current versions like:
No. Keeping the lid down allows you to be lazy and change nothing about the way you do things, while I have to change the way that I have been peeing since I was two years old. Why don't we eliminate the lid, and make a catheter for it, so that you can pee standing up, too? That's not fair? On a more serious note, an example of a good compromise would be to check before you poo or pee, just like I do, and change the configuration accordingly. Do exactly what I have to do every time, anyway. You don't change the way you do things significantly, and neither do I. Neither of us demands that the other be our toilet servant
It isn't only me, my girlfriend thinks 1) you're a princess, 2) you probably want me to wipe for you, too, and 3) you need a stupid sign. Her words, not mine. Quit expecting compromise to come mostly from the other side, and you'd do better.
As an aside, I always put the seat down when I was married, because I wanted to coexist with her, but it is a symptom of severe selfishness to demand it.
My point was that it is an incredibly selfish argument, similar in character to a two year old's. Just check the seat before you sit down, like I check the seat before I either sit down or pee standing up, because if I don't check, there's hell to pay either way.
Yeah, I never bought this argument from my ex. I sit on the toilet all the time, and I never fall in. Somehow, I always manage to check first. Your laziness is not my problem, but if you want to insist, we can be fair, and I demand that you help me not pee on the seat by raising it after every flush, or I can't guarantee the results.
But, the question is, can I finally afford to put wireless on my thin clients? Until now, any wireless solution cost four times what my clients cost.
I forgot to mention that this closely parallels my own dream: to quit my full time job to sell porn all day. What did you say? No, I an not sick.
I can guarantee you that if you do something for 60 hours a week you're going to get sick of it, regardless of what it is.
I'm sorry for you, but that's bullshit for a lot of people in the world. I have spent most of my life working longer than 60 hours, and when I am doing something I love, like cooking or being in front of a computer, I have no problem with it. Neither did my father with flying. It's a concept I call pay per subjective hour (PSH). Something you like to do that pays less almost always makes you more (PSH) than something you don't like to do which pays more.
It's also the reason people code all day and then go home to work on their "hobby" code.
Ironic is aready an adjective: there is no need to add -al to it. What? Do you think you are in a rock band or something? (obscure reference). Please see associated /. story for further details.