Re:Cross-platform web design issue
on
Safari 1.0 Released
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· Score: 3, Informative
This is insufficient, because WebCore fixes a lot of bugs still present in the latest KHTML. I found this out (to my unceasing joy:D ) when a friend of mine with MacOS X started testing a few sites for me.
(For the record, the two that I've noticed so far are: 1) Safari knows how to draw a "dotted" border properly, and 2) Safari appears to support the max-width: property.)
Frisbee! Any chance I can get.;) I'm also a big fan of bicycling and occasional walks. I used to play paintball occasionally with my brother and father, but the last time I did that was years and years ago...
My father (from whom I inherit much geek-ness) is very much into genealogy, too. Occasionally I'll be helping him out with that - mostly exploring cemetaries looking for the graves of ancestors. Is pretty nifty.
Taking Notes in class is very similar to highlighting in textbooks as you read.
That's not the correct way to take notes, although unfortunately most folks seem to do them that way. I find that what you're supposed to do is write down in your own words what you've just heard. That makes it a whole heck of a lot easier to go back over them, makes them much more useful, and helps you remember them in the first place.
Oh, and to be back on topic, I don't think any amount of technology rearranging is going to do anything useful if you're not properly motivated. I never got anywhere with my PDA while I was in college. I couldn't live without it now, but back then I never really got anything done with it, despite many attempts to do so. I tended to play games on it more than anything. (I distinctly recall playing Kyle's Quest for PalmOS through most of my CS101 classes, only barely paying attention - and aceing the class anyways, but still.:) ) And when I got myself a laptop, I only used it to play games while still in my upper bunk.
If you're far enough off course that you're looking at juggling your personal tech to keep yourself focused, you've got other, more serious problems to take care of first. (I know I did.)
Frankly, there are some songs I love and want to listen to all the time; these are ones I'd want to "own" so I can have them available whenever/whereever, and be able to demonstrate to others and stuff like that.
And then there's others that I have a sort of periodic interest in, and usually stop caring about after a few weeks. These are ones I'd prefer to "rent", because there's no point in paying more so as to keep them later.
Plus, I'd like to be able to control the difference between these two states easily.
Does *anybody* offer something like that? Not that I can see...
This is something I've been trying to investigate myself, without much success. We (that is, me and my father, from whom I inherit my geekiness) have tried an older version of SpamAssassin in the past, but she seemed to have a problem with false positives with it (or at least she was extremely worried about them; I dunno if any actually happened), so it got rejected.
I've been strongly considering trying the new version with the Bayesian filtering capabilities, but this brings to mind two issues - 1) we don't actually run our own mailserver, which complicates things (I use it myself via a Sylpheed plugin), and 2) I've yet to actually try that filtering capability myself (have yet to run the trainer).
If anybody knows how effective it really is, I'd love to hear about it.
They already did that; it was called the Palm IIIe, and it was out years ago. You can prob'ly easily find one on eBay or maybe even in a few stores.
Admittedly, the fact that it's not currently on most store shelves kind of limits its current accessibility, but the point remains that they've done all this already.
Why on earth do you feel you need to develop for specific browsers? I develop to W3C standards, and test it on NS4, MSIE, Mozilla/Phoenix (depending upon requirements).
Strange; if you're developing to W3C standards, then you shouldn't have to someday develop to Opera, 'cause it's the only browser out there that's strict about these things (including Mozilla and its 'legacy' support). You do validate what you're putting out, right?
And if you've managed to develop fully compliant HTML 4.01 Strict that doesn't look barebones in Netscape 4, please show me how you pulled that trick, because I have found no way to manage it at all. (It is a common misconception that validating as "transitional" means you're fully compliant with the standards. You're not. Transitional is just what the name implies - a transitory step, not a final destination; sometimes necessary for folks who won't move ahead, but NOT the ultimate goal.)
Other than the totally borked horror that is Netscape 4.x, modern web clients - including Opera - generally do things right as long as you do it right. 'Generally' isn't good enough if browsing is integral to a person's career or to their study. Netscape 4 is a solid browser, even if CSS support is lacking, JavaScript 1.3 is satisfactory.
CSS isn't merely "lacking" on Netscape 4 - it's irrerievably broken. Outside of treating it like a verbose alternative to <font>, you simply can't use CSS with any degree of complexity in Netscape 4; it'll come out terrible.
It's not sub-standard to those of us that use it. Maybe I should have termed it "not as standards compliant as others"?
You could, but this is incorrect (so far as I've experienced) for 7.x. Slamming Opera's scripting support for 6.x and earlier is entirely justified; 7.x is a whole 'nother animal. (Literally - they rewrote it.)
And why do you write web pages for Netscape 4.x (which you mentioned at the start of your trolling) which is clearly sub-standard in every possible way? Trolling? That's right, you don't believe in free speech. Netscape 4 was a very popular browser. The deployment environment dictated by the clients will determine whether I develop for NS4.
"Was" being the operative term; it's really not prepared for the modern world. Although, yes, if clients insist on it, I'll admit it's necessary. (It's never a job I look forward to, though.)
Lovely unfounded "probably" there. I guess you also turn off cookies in your browser and demand that web sites you visit turn off IP logging... HTTP requests are often logged by servers, especially advertisements. I do turn off cookies by default, and allow the 10 or so sites that do require it. Sites who bypass this are added to my hosts file.
Opera's got a pretty strictly detailed policy regarding how they collect information for their ads; have you read it? Personally, I've never had a problem with the ads (but admittedly, I'm also not as strict as you apparently are with cookie control).
This is absolutely the wrong perspective to take on web standards, because it essentially assumes that MSIE is forever. The equivalent in the OS world would be to dump POSIX in favor of Win32 because Win32 is more common (and I'm hoping that sounds as ridiculous to the rest of you as it does to me:) ).
The idea behind having decent standards-compliant-only browsers is that it's supposed to tune people in to the fact that some websites aren't doing what they should, and that they should start complaining to the site designers themselves. "Your website is broken!" ought to be pretty motivational. (Whether or not this tactic has any chance of success is another matter, but I still support it.)
(And beside from all that, being a web developer myself, I normally have this holy fanatical hatred of anything suggesting that MSIE is the One True Standard; its lack of adherence to standards that Microsoft helped develop causes me more problems than any other browser on the planet. Admittedly, Konqueror is an extremely close second, but that's mostly because of its successful attempts to emulate MSIE.)
There is no Gameboy Advance emulator for this thing as far as I can tell. There's Game Boy Color and original Game Boy, but no Game Boy Advance.
So, you *could* play LoZ4: Link's Awakening on this thing, but not the recent LoZ3 remake. (Although the SNES emulation could sort of cover that, too...:) )
Ha! That less-than-familiarity is their own damn fault. They deliberately refused to hire for residential computing work more than a few folks with alternate OS experience. (I wasn't one of them at the time, but they did turn me down).
I frankly found that place a pain in the butt, especially after the dongle on my laptop's NIC broke and I had to get a new one and it took them two weeks to realize I'd changed (in the meantime I just dumped use of DHCP entirely and demanded the address they always gave; worked like a champ!)
And the resnet was horrifyingly slow; there were more collisions on that net than in a national bumper-cars event. I distinctly remember my old workaround for this - walk over to Olscamp Hall with my laptop, tape an "OUT OF ORDER" sign to one of the iMacs in the hallway, and subsequently "borrow" that iMac's Ethernet port. If anyone asked what I was up to, I just had to say I was from RCC (I knew more than most of their "field techs" at the time anyways, so I could pull it off when necessary; it only was once or twice. Nobody seemed to make the mental connection that RCC didn't handle the academic halls, thankfully.:) ).
Gosh, the memories.:)
(Of course, this was back in 1998-1999 or so; they've likely improved since then (if not, God only help those who go there now). They started the MAC address thing, as far as I can recall, in spring quarter 1999)
Maybe if you don't count sales tax or anything like that. When faced with a $999 price tag, most folks I know don't think of that as "under a thousand bucks"; they think "about a thousand bucks" or somesuch.
(And here I thought I was going to replace my grandmother's system for around $800 or $950... how dare you mislead me so!)
Okay, this has got to be an all-time high for SlashDot irresponsibility. The site *just* got rebuilt, the submitter specifically DIDN'T include a link to same (likely out of consideration there), and then timothy goes ahead and adds it anyways!
It's not like the editors DON'T know about the/. effect; hell, the servers necessary for Slashdot itself would tell about that. So why add the link regardless?
"2.x version" = that which shipped with KDE version 2, all the way up to 2.2.2. "3.x version" = that which shipped with KDE 3.0.x. (I haven't tried 3.1, as it's just released.)
Quite frankly, I've stopped caring about MacOS compatibility in light of announcements like this.
Frankly, KHTML is trash, pure and simple. The 2.x version can't handle CSS2 worth a damn, I see the 3.x version crash and burn on more sites than *Netscape 4*, and the design philosophy attempts to be to bring WinMSIE's boneheaded and f***ing annoying bugs to other platforms.
If Mac users want to go for substandard garbage like that, they don't deserve quality. Let 'em die. Watch me not care.
Okay, I'm convinced that this is April 1st in disguise. First the quardruple-speed browser, then the SCO patent issue, then the porno cellphones, and now this - Microsoft Lisp.
Slashdot Mirror
Hardly. MSIE just became abandonware, remember?
This is insufficient, because WebCore fixes a lot of bugs still present in the latest KHTML. I found this out (to my unceasing joy :D ) when a friend of mine with MacOS X started testing a few sites for me.
(For the record, the two that I've noticed so far are:
1) Safari knows how to draw a "dotted" border properly, and
2) Safari appears to support the max-width: property.)
Let's say I've been ordering a box of cigarettes every week like clockwork for a decade, and this phone is trained to recognize this.
Now let's say I decide to quit smoking.
Frisbee! Any chance I can get. ;) I'm also a big fan of bicycling and occasional walks. I used to play paintball occasionally with my brother and father, but the last time I did that was years and years ago...
My father (from whom I inherit much geek-ness) is very much into genealogy, too. Occasionally I'll be helping him out with that - mostly exploring cemetaries looking for the graves of ancestors. Is pretty nifty.
Anyone got ideas for what to do with an old GBA?
Well, it is theoretically capable of running Linux... naturally, somebody's got to suggest a Beowulf cluster.
Taking Notes in class is very similar to highlighting in textbooks as you read.
:) ) And when I got myself a laptop, I only used it to play games while still in my upper bunk.
That's not the correct way to take notes, although unfortunately most folks seem to do them that way. I find that what you're supposed to do is write down in your own words what you've just heard. That makes it a whole heck of a lot easier to go back over them, makes them much more useful, and helps you remember them in the first place.
Oh, and to be back on topic, I don't think any amount of technology rearranging is going to do anything useful if you're not properly motivated. I never got anywhere with my PDA while I was in college. I couldn't live without it now, but back then I never really got anything done with it, despite many attempts to do so. I tended to play games on it more than anything. (I distinctly recall playing Kyle's Quest for PalmOS through most of my CS101 classes, only barely paying attention - and aceing the class anyways, but still.
If you're far enough off course that you're looking at juggling your personal tech to keep yourself focused, you've got other, more serious problems to take care of first. (I know I did.)
Frankly, there are some songs I love and want to listen to all the time; these are ones I'd want to "own" so I can have them available whenever/whereever, and be able to demonstrate to others and stuff like that.
And then there's others that I have a sort of periodic interest in, and usually stop caring about after a few weeks. These are ones I'd prefer to "rent", because there's no point in paying more so as to keep them later.
Plus, I'd like to be able to control the difference between these two states easily.
Does *anybody* offer something like that? Not that I can see...
This is something I've been trying to investigate myself, without much success. We (that is, me and my father, from whom I inherit my geekiness) have tried an older version of SpamAssassin in the past, but she seemed to have a problem with false positives with it (or at least she was extremely worried about them; I dunno if any actually happened), so it got rejected.
I've been strongly considering trying the new version with the Bayesian filtering capabilities, but this brings to mind two issues - 1) we don't actually run our own mailserver, which complicates things (I use it myself via a Sylpheed plugin), and 2) I've yet to actually try that filtering capability myself (have yet to run the trainer).
If anybody knows how effective it really is, I'd love to hear about it.
Out of curiosity, what is a "health salt"? I've never heard of such before...
(oh, and for some reason, this keeps coming to mind: http://www.angryflower.com/nacl.gif.)
They already did that; it was called the Palm IIIe, and it was out years ago. You can prob'ly easily find one on eBay or maybe even in a few stores.
Admittedly, the fact that it's not currently on most store shelves kind of limits its current accessibility, but the point remains that they've done all this already.
And if you really have a problem with that and want to just keep appointments, there's the original Zire.
They actually *make* devices for segements like that; what's the point of mocking the other segment for not being in yours?
Why on earth do you feel you need to develop for specific browsers?
I develop to W3C standards, and test it on NS4, MSIE, Mozilla/Phoenix (depending upon requirements).
Strange; if you're developing to W3C standards, then you shouldn't have to someday develop to Opera, 'cause it's the only browser out there that's strict about these things (including Mozilla and its 'legacy' support). You do validate what you're putting out, right?
And if you've managed to develop fully compliant HTML 4.01 Strict that doesn't look barebones in Netscape 4, please show me how you pulled that trick, because I have found no way to manage it at all. (It is a common misconception that validating as "transitional" means you're fully compliant with the standards. You're not. Transitional is just what the name implies - a transitory step, not a final destination; sometimes necessary for folks who won't move ahead, but NOT the ultimate goal.)
Other than the totally borked horror that is Netscape 4.x, modern web clients - including Opera - generally do things right as long as you do it right.
'Generally' isn't good enough if browsing is integral to a person's career or to their study. Netscape 4 is a solid browser, even if CSS support is lacking, JavaScript 1.3 is satisfactory.
CSS isn't merely "lacking" on Netscape 4 - it's irrerievably broken. Outside of treating it like a verbose alternative to <font>, you simply can't use CSS with any degree of complexity in Netscape 4; it'll come out terrible.
It's not sub-standard to those of us that use it.
Maybe I should have termed it "not as standards compliant as others"?
You could, but this is incorrect (so far as I've experienced) for 7.x. Slamming Opera's scripting support for 6.x and earlier is entirely justified; 7.x is a whole 'nother animal. (Literally - they rewrote it.)
And why do you write web pages for Netscape 4.x (which you mentioned at the start of your trolling) which is clearly sub-standard in every possible way?
Trolling? That's right, you don't believe in free speech. Netscape 4 was a very popular browser. The deployment environment dictated by the clients will determine whether I develop for NS4.
"Was" being the operative term; it's really not prepared for the modern world. Although, yes, if clients insist on it, I'll admit it's necessary. (It's never a job I look forward to, though.)
Lovely unfounded "probably" there. I guess you also turn off cookies in your browser and demand that web sites you visit turn off IP logging...
HTTP requests are often logged by servers, especially advertisements. I do turn off cookies by default, and allow the 10 or so sites that do require it. Sites who bypass this are added to my hosts file.
Opera's got a pretty strictly detailed policy regarding how they collect information for their ads; have you read it? Personally, I've never had a problem with the ads (but admittedly, I'm also not as strict as you apparently are with cookie control).
This is absolutely the wrong perspective to take on web standards, because it essentially assumes that MSIE is forever. The equivalent in the OS world would be to dump POSIX in favor of Win32 because Win32 is more common (and I'm hoping that sounds as ridiculous to the rest of you as it does to me :) ).
The idea behind having decent standards-compliant-only browsers is that it's supposed to tune people in to the fact that some websites aren't doing what they should, and that they should start complaining to the site designers themselves. "Your website is broken!" ought to be pretty motivational. (Whether or not this tactic has any chance of success is another matter, but I still support it.)
(And beside from all that, being a web developer myself, I normally have this holy fanatical hatred of anything suggesting that MSIE is the One True Standard; its lack of adherence to standards that Microsoft helped develop causes me more problems than any other browser on the planet. Admittedly, Konqueror is an extremely close second, but that's mostly because of its successful attempts to emulate MSIE.)
There is no Gameboy Advance emulator for this thing as far as I can tell. There's Game Boy Color and original Game Boy, but no Game Boy Advance.
:) )
So, you *could* play LoZ4: Link's Awakening on this thing, but not the recent LoZ3 remake. (Although the SNES emulation could sort of cover that, too...
Posting a dupe of a story, and then two and a half hours later posting ANOTHER dupe of the SAME story?
Taco, I sincerely hope this is your idea of an April Fool's joke, because otherwise... you've got some serious attention span issues, hon.
Ha! That less-than-familiarity is their own damn fault. They deliberately refused to hire for residential computing work more than a few folks with alternate OS experience. (I wasn't one of them at the time, but they did turn me down).
:) ).
:)
I frankly found that place a pain in the butt, especially after the dongle on my laptop's NIC broke and I had to get a new one and it took them two weeks to realize I'd changed (in the meantime I just dumped use of DHCP entirely and demanded the address they always gave; worked like a champ!)
And the resnet was horrifyingly slow; there were more collisions on that net than in a national bumper-cars event. I distinctly remember my old workaround for this - walk over to Olscamp Hall with my laptop, tape an "OUT OF ORDER" sign to one of the iMacs in the hallway, and subsequently "borrow" that iMac's Ethernet port. If anyone asked what I was up to, I just had to say I was from RCC (I knew more than most of their "field techs" at the time anyways, so I could pull it off when necessary; it only was once or twice. Nobody seemed to make the mental connection that RCC didn't handle the academic halls, thankfully.
Gosh, the memories.
(Of course, this was back in 1998-1999 or so; they've likely improved since then (if not, God only help those who go there now). They started the MAC address thing, as far as I can recall, in spring quarter 1999)
Ooh. I'd love to see this happen. Might be my best chance to get a tech job. :D
Yeah, I know about that trick. I was commenting on the point that I wouldn't expect a fellow geek to buy into that to that depth. :)
Maybe if you don't count sales tax or anything like that. When faced with a $999 price tag, most folks I know don't think of that as "under a thousand bucks"; they think "about a thousand bucks" or somesuch.
(And here I thought I was going to replace my grandmother's system for around $800 or $950... how dare you mislead me so!)
Okay, this has got to be an all-time high for SlashDot irresponsibility. The site *just* got rebuilt, the submitter specifically DIDN'T include a link to same (likely out of consideration there), and then timothy goes ahead and adds it anyways!
/. effect; hell, the servers necessary for Slashdot itself would tell about that. So why add the link regardless?
It's not like the editors DON'T know about the
This is just plain irresponsible.
"2.x version" = that which shipped with KDE version 2, all the way up to 2.2.2.
"3.x version" = that which shipped with KDE 3.0.x. (I haven't tried 3.1, as it's just released.)
(Mod me down! I'm trolling!)
Quite frankly, I've stopped caring about MacOS compatibility in light of announcements like this.
Frankly, KHTML is trash, pure and simple. The 2.x version can't handle CSS2 worth a damn, I see the 3.x version crash and burn on more sites than *Netscape 4*, and the design philosophy attempts to be to bring WinMSIE's boneheaded and f***ing annoying bugs to other platforms.
If Mac users want to go for substandard garbage like that, they don't deserve quality. Let 'em die. Watch me not care.
Okay, I'm convinced that this is April 1st in disguise. First the quardruple-speed browser, then the SCO patent issue, then the porno cellphones, and now this - Microsoft Lisp.
Here's a few I'd want to second:
Adm. Grace Hopper
Bill Atkinson
Bill Joy
John Carmack
James Gosling
Tim Berners-Lee
I hesitate a bit to put Richard Stallman on that list; arguably his is more of a social creation.
Eh. I'd call that a hardware innovation. :D