Im not a major developer by anymeans but for what its worth I've been writting a Java application that works on both handhelds and PCs for the last year.
And let me tell you it is a pain in the arse.
The JREs that are available tend to be commercial and on WinCE certainly - far slower than the (free) beta JRE that Sun (silently) dropped support and development for last year. Add to the speed problems the fact that the supported JREs (if they are not embedded already into ROM) add SERIOUS bloat to memory (3-6 MB ) and being tied (realistically) to 1.1.8 (if not 1.0.2 in some case) in order to obtain wide portability and you have some major hassles in store if you want to develop a single codebase for multiple platforms.
I would STRONLY advise anyone considering developing any substantial application for handhelds to avoid Java like the plague and instead concentrate on writting efficient portable C or C++ code.
Agreed. Also, although I have absolutely no idea where the tsetse fly fits into its native ecosystem it is almost bound to be the prey/foodsource of some other animal.
The worse part of this is that 95% of the eradication process involves the use of pesticides...polluting the food chain and further endangering what is already a very fragile eco system.
I would MUCH rather see a species controlled by a long term sterilisation/population reduction process ( 10-20 years to impliment effectively, and long term maintainance ) than this cheap, dangerous and ultimately short-term solution.
Re:Move along, no neutrality here...
on
What is .NET?
·
· Score: 1
agreed - anyone who wants to understand.Net and what CLR is should read this - it certainly opened my eyes and I currently have projects in both.Net and Java.
I dislike Java. Immensly. Mainly because I've written a LOT of code for it and am tied to 1.1.x versions of the language (Cross platform portability? FEK OFF!!).
Having played with.Net it HAS learnt from Javas mistakes but its going to be a few years before it matures and it is going to make the same mistakes I suspect. Cross platform portability though? FEK OFF!!!
The reason BT are going after this is that they are BILLIONS ($40+ I think) in debt and need a way to pay it off. They may well win...be prepared for that. Even if they could only get a few thousand out of ever ISP/web publisher they would make a considerable dent in their debt - hence dont expect this to go away.
Its is bad - gone are the days of peeps who knew HTML+JavaScript making 100k on contract - hell these days even making 50k on contract is difficult given the amount of peeps on the market. And the permie jobs are few and far between and again there is one hell of a lot of competition. However it is possible to get a job still or contract - I'm just finding that I am having to weigh in with prices at the low end of the market and deliver a high end product/service on several small contracts rather than one big one.
The real problem is that things are probably going to get worse rather than better - big companies are still shedding, the remaining dotcoms are running out of money, there are no really BIG ideas out there for companies to focus IT investment on - I dont see a REAL recovery until mid 2003 when Im hoping 3G will pull the market back up. *sigh* In the meantime at least I get to read a lot more than I used to;)
Java? Oohhhhh that's that cross platform language isn't it? The one I spent 8 months developing a product on with the intension of it running on X, Windows and WinCE. The one that my clients bought into having seen the beta running on WinCE..... The one that Sun quietly DROPPED support/development for the WinCE VM leaving me with a bill for several thousands $ in licensing fees for a proprietary VM. Point is it may be an open standard but I haven't noticed Sun releasing many of their products as open source. Not that MS is likely to either - they will both make decisions for commercial reasons and you could find yourself damned whichever beast you choose to side with.
is that.Net's component languages are primarily BUSINESS languages for putting together BUSINESS applications...and for their primary purpose they are going to have HUGE benefits. VB programmers WILL be able to deal with C# and vice-versa, the languages are so simplified that their should be fewer bugs and productivity should be increased. Does ANYONE REALLY like multiple inheritance or use it frequently? (yes I know!!)
I pray that universities/ colleges etc DON'T teach C# as their language of choice though - it is totally inappropriate for many projects and that is part of the skill that we acquire as developers - right tool right job. A broad view is very important.
No ones linked to them yet this article and this article give a bit more information on what LGPL is and why there is an issue.
Although I understand the reasoning this sort of issue is what will drive companies away from adopting Linux. I'm already finding that I have to read the small print for every damn piece of software/code that I use just in case I end up using something which I will have to pay for or be prohibited from using if I use it commercially. Pain in the backside.
should be using open source software. Yeah Germany. Apart from the fact that open source software IS of good enough quality now to be practicle to use and deploy it would save the tax payer MILLIONS of (£$E) every year, create a host of jobs AND improve the very software that was being deployed.
As a bandwidth hog myself ( I watch all my favorite TV shows on the web ) $80 sounds CHEAP. In the UK I pay about $70 US for 512k down, 256k up. 2MB/256K would cost me the equivilent of about $200 US per month.
I wish they would come over here and Roger me like they are doing the Canadians *grin*
PvR software has been around for AGES for the PC - just do a quick search on Freshmeat. Theres is NOTHING new about this product. It has a server? PAH!! ( What the hell are Linux, Apache, IIS etc? )Can play movies on the pocketpc? PAH ( pockettv is about 2 years old and pocketdivx rocks ). You can send recordings over the internet? PAH!! I've been downloading and burning episodes of trek for the last 3 years or so. I am REALLY suprised to see something like this on slashdot.....
Its NOT a threading or a load issue that is the problem with TCP/IP - its the fact that its a stateful, connection oriented protocol. Even slight packet loss on a number of clients above a certain threashold will bring the server/system to its knees as TCP/IP tries to resend large chunks of lost data. If the point arrives where the resend doesnt arrive due to congestion/load issues - you have a problem.
That is why most MM games use UDP largely and have gaming models that support the shortcomings of UDP. UDP for data where reliability and order is unimportant ( just impliment your own protocol on top of it to solve the problem of dropped / out of order packets), TCP/IP for reliability.
The last MMORPG to use TCP/IP primarily was AO. Very successfull implimentation Im sure youll agree.....
Its really inpossible to give anything more than general advice due to the lack of information about this project..for example how many clients, how large a server/systems budget, is the gameplay turn based or real time etc etc?
That said....on a MASSIVE scale split up the individual subsystems - AI, client handling, client updateing, world updating, communications etc and then delimit zones/areas of control for each server/thread would be my recommendation. Ensure that threads for each server ( logical rather than physical ) are aware of each other and can request state. Pass along objects between servers for zone transitions etc..
I know the above model is vague...it may not even be very good but it should allow you to deploy the hardware to allow the system to scale....
*Shrug* shame I havnt done my Masters yet - I'm hoping to do it in just this area....
not integrated into the kernel? That is FRIGHTENING!!!
It wont be long before the MS camp picks up on this and starts to use it as a weapon - not that we havnt had to wait a year or two for bug fixes from them in the past. But Mr Torvalds isn't doing himself or us any favours on this one.
Did you do anywork on the dating agency that used to live at http://project-entropia.com? (It aint there anymore ) MatchMakers or something. That was one thing I did find VERY strange about PE - that they would risk an otherwise very professional profile by leaving junk such as that in prominant display.
I've been looking forward to this game and its a pitty to hear that MindArk dont treat their staff correctly. I've also found them incrediby rude to their player base in the past so it sounds like the culture their has a few problems.
I HOPE that things are better with the game than I've suspected.....
Seems Expensive to me. I've been downloading and installing Suse using FTP and floppy disk for my last few installs, getting all the support I need from newsgroups. The financial support comes in the form of the 3 distros I've bought from them over the years. (Total cost about 3 years subscription to a $5 a month service)
I know the various distibution makers HAVE to make money but I cant see that this adds any REAL value to the product by subscribing.
already outstrip real ones. This article claims that Everquests ( a similar MMORPG ) platinum pieces are wort more than the Yen - people have been playing EQ for years in order to make a living. At one point I heard someone was making about $10,000 per month ( that is extream though ). However EQ does NOT tie its virtual economy to the real world which is why PE is different and exciting.
Personally I cant wait to get a job as a gnome slayer in some virtual world *chuckle*. Beats my current bug slaying job any day.
Comments....
on
Pay to Play
·
· Score: 1, Informative
In the UK BarrysWorld has had a semi-successful p2p system for years - hosting servers for the most popular games and charging for league games, dial up access to lower pings etc. Sadly they went bankrupt last year but were happily bought up by (I think) EB.
As many have pointed out a p2p FPS just isnt going to work because of latency issues - a ping over 50 is considered bad by many FPS players. MMORPGS over come this problem by having high latency tolerant game systems - however that really limits the type of play. Even now that market is starting to stagnate due to the number of poor clone type games being foist onto the market in order to cash in.
project entropia has an interesting slant on all of this - players get the game and play for free but to get the most from the game they have to put real money into a virtual economy - check it out, very nice concept.
Of course the REAL p2p market doesnt exist in the states - people are paying to play games via SMS now ( mobile phone text messages ) and download the games to their phones. Once 3G ( NOT 2.5 ) appears with high powered mobile devices and good quality displays the p2p gaming market is going to EXPLODE!! In fact I've been developing a 3G p2p game for the last 2 years - anyone wnat to through me a few million?;)
www.theregister.co.uk also covered this with editorial this week.
My stance is that if they dont treat security seriously then it WILL only be a matter of time until more secure operating systems erode their market share. Pure lower cost of ownership and reduced administration hassles will drive this.
However they have a HUGE problem in that current versions of windows are so riddled with holes of one shape, size or form so much so that they realistically should be providing free upgrades to every user to make their systems secure.
Microsoft give a free upgrade though? Lol choke - wheres the ambulance?
Sorry matey pips - Until I can't tell the difference between a photorealist scene being rendered in real time and....the real scene itself (!!!lol) I want games companies to keep pushing and pushing the graphics.
When that point is reached and we have true photorealistic FPSs, Racing games etc etc there will be plenty of time for developers to sit back and spend years on gameplay and content rather than technology.
5 to 10 years I reckon and we should start to see some STONKERS!!!
Just LOOK at the specs required to run the latest engine in top notch mode and get decent framerates - painful!!
However the orginal Unreal was one of the reasons I shelled out for a PII 233 and a 12MB voodoo way back then. It was gorgeous and wonderful havnt a system capable of allowing me to lead the pack in deathmatches. Guess its time to sell the children again *sigh*
Point is that this is a engine/game that I WILL upgrade for ( I bet DNF ends up being delayed while they port to it ) and Im sure lots of other peeps will.....I guess games still are driving hardware sales:)
Slashdot Mirror
Im not a major developer by anymeans but for what its worth I've been writting a Java application that works on both handhelds and PCs for the last year.
And let me tell you it is a pain in the arse.
The JREs that are available tend to be commercial and on WinCE certainly - far slower than the (free) beta JRE that Sun (silently) dropped support and development for last year. Add to the speed problems the fact that the supported JREs (if they are not embedded already into ROM) add SERIOUS bloat to memory (3-6 MB ) and being tied (realistically) to 1.1.8 (if not 1.0.2 in some case) in order to obtain wide portability and you have some major hassles in store if you want to develop a single codebase for multiple platforms.
I would STRONLY advise anyone considering developing any substantial application for handhelds to avoid Java like the plague and instead concentrate on writting efficient portable C or C++ code.
Agreed. Also, although I have absolutely no idea where the tsetse fly fits into its native ecosystem it is almost bound to be the prey/foodsource of some other animal.
The worse part of this is that 95% of the eradication process involves the use of pesticides...polluting the food chain and further endangering what is already a very fragile eco system.
I would MUCH rather see a species controlled by a long term sterilisation/population reduction process ( 10-20 years to impliment effectively, and long term maintainance ) than this cheap, dangerous and ultimately short-term solution.
agreed - anyone who wants to understand .Net and what CLR is should read this - it certainly opened my eyes and I currently have projects in both .Net and Java.
.Net it HAS learnt from Javas mistakes but its going to be a few years before it matures and it is going to make the same mistakes I suspect. Cross platform portability though? FEK OFF!!!
I dislike Java. Immensly. Mainly because I've written a LOT of code for it and am tied to 1.1.x versions of the language (Cross platform portability? FEK OFF!!).
Having played with
DRINK!!!
The reason BT are going after this is that they are BILLIONS ($40+ I think) in debt and need a way to pay it off. They may well win...be prepared for that. Even if they could only get a few thousand out of ever ISP/web publisher they would make a considerable dent in their debt - hence dont expect this to go away.
Yes, I noticed that one about 2ms after hitting submit :)
I assume youre unemployed since you have time to comment upon my grammar/spelling.......*grin*
Its is bad - gone are the days of peeps who knew HTML+JavaScript making 100k on contract - hell these days even making 50k on contract is difficult given the amount of peeps on the market. And the permie jobs are few and far between and again there is one hell of a lot of competition. However it is possible to get a job still or contract - I'm just finding that I am having to weigh in with prices at the low end of the market and deliver a high end product/service on several small contracts rather than one big one.
;)
The real problem is that things are probably going to get worse rather than better - big companies are still shedding, the remaining dotcoms are running out of money, there are no really BIG ideas out there for companies to focus IT investment on - I dont see a REAL recovery until mid 2003 when Im hoping 3G will pull the market back up. *sigh* In the meantime at least I get to read a lot more than I used to
Java? Oohhhhh that's that cross platform language isn't it? The one I spent 8 months developing a product on with the intension of it running on X, Windows and WinCE. The one that my clients bought into having seen the beta running on WinCE..... The one that Sun quietly DROPPED support/development for the WinCE VM leaving me with a bill for several thousands $ in licensing fees for a proprietary VM.
Point is it may be an open standard but I haven't noticed Sun releasing many of their products as open source. Not that MS is likely to either - they will both make decisions for commercial reasons and you could find yourself damned whichever beast you choose to side with.
is that .Net's component languages are primarily BUSINESS languages for putting together BUSINESS applications...and for their primary purpose they are going to have HUGE benefits. VB programmers WILL be able to deal with C# and vice-versa, the languages are so simplified that their should be fewer bugs and productivity should be increased. Does ANYONE REALLY like multiple inheritance or use it frequently? (yes I know!!)
I pray that universities/ colleges etc DON'T teach C# as their language of choice though - it is totally inappropriate for many projects and that is part of the skill that we acquire as developers - right tool right job. A broad view is very important.
No ones linked to them yet this article and this article give a bit more information on what LGPL is and why there is an issue.
Although I understand the reasoning this sort of issue is what will drive companies away from adopting Linux. I'm already finding that I have to read the small print for every damn piece of software/code that I use just in case I end up using something which I will have to pay for or be prohibited from using if I use it commercially. Pain in the backside.
should be using open source software. Yeah Germany. Apart from the fact that open source software IS of good enough quality now to be practicle to use and deploy it would save the tax payer MILLIONS of (£$E) every year, create a host of jobs AND improve the very software that was being deployed.
;)
Time to hassle my MP
The U.S. Dept of Commerce reports that more than half of the nation is now online
;)
No wonder its so damn laggy today
As a bandwidth hog myself ( I watch all my favorite TV shows on the web ) $80 sounds CHEAP. In the UK I pay about $70 US for 512k down, 256k up. 2MB/256K would cost me the equivilent of about $200 US per month.
I wish they would come over here and Roger me like they are doing the Canadians *grin*
PvR software has been around for AGES for the PC - just do a quick search on Freshmeat. Theres is NOTHING new about this product. It has a server? PAH!! ( What the hell are Linux, Apache, IIS etc? )Can play movies on the pocketpc? PAH ( pockettv is about 2 years old and pocketdivx rocks ). You can send recordings over the internet? PAH!! I've been downloading and burning episodes of trek for the last 3 years or so.
I am REALLY suprised to see something like this on slashdot.....
Its NOT a threading or a load issue that is the problem with TCP/IP - its the fact that its a stateful, connection oriented protocol. Even slight packet loss on a number of clients above a certain threashold will bring the server/system to its knees as TCP/IP tries to resend large chunks of lost data. If the point arrives where the resend doesnt arrive due to congestion/load issues - you have a problem.
That is why most MM games use UDP largely and have gaming models that support the shortcomings of UDP. UDP for data where reliability and order is unimportant ( just impliment your own protocol on top of it to solve the problem of dropped / out of order packets), TCP/IP for reliability.
The last MMORPG to use TCP/IP primarily was AO. Very successfull implimentation Im sure youll agree.....
I've seen a java client for a MMORPG. It was cute in a Commodore 64 kind of way.
There were about 800 players on line.....
Some nice advice :)
Its really inpossible to give anything more than general advice due to the lack of information about this project..for example how many clients, how large a server/systems budget, is the gameplay turn based or real time etc etc?
That said....on a MASSIVE scale split up the individual subsystems - AI, client handling, client updateing, world updating, communications etc and then delimit zones/areas of control for each server/thread would be my recommendation. Ensure that threads for each server ( logical rather than physical ) are aware of each other and can request state. Pass along objects between servers for zone transitions etc..
I know the above model is vague...it may not even be very good but it should allow you to deploy the hardware to allow the system to scale....
*Shrug* shame I havnt done my Masters yet - I'm hoping to do it in just this area....
not integrated into the kernel? That is FRIGHTENING!!!
It wont be long before the MS camp picks up on this and starts to use it as a weapon - not that we havnt had to wait a year or two for bug fixes from them in the past. But Mr Torvalds isn't doing himself or us any favours on this one.
in connection to project entropia? Yeesh I know Ill be modded down for this but please peeps a little credit ;) lol
Did you do anywork on the dating agency that used to live at http://project-entropia.com? (It aint there anymore ) MatchMakers or something. That was one thing I did find VERY strange about PE - that they would risk an otherwise very professional profile by leaving junk such as that in prominant display.
I've been looking forward to this game and its a pitty to hear that MindArk dont treat their staff correctly. I've also found them incrediby rude to their player base in the past so it sounds like the culture their has a few problems.
I HOPE that things are better with the game than I've suspected.....
Seems Expensive to me. I've been downloading and installing Suse using FTP and floppy disk for my last few installs, getting all the support I need from newsgroups. The financial support comes in the form of the 3 distros I've bought from them over the years. (Total cost about 3 years subscription to a $5 a month service)
I know the various distibution makers HAVE to make money but I cant see that this adds any REAL value to the product by subscribing.
Im sure someone will now inform me other wise...
already outstrip real ones. This article claims that Everquests ( a similar MMORPG ) platinum pieces are wort more than the Yen - people have been playing EQ for years in order to make a living. At one point I heard someone was making about $10,000 per month ( that is extream though ). However EQ does NOT tie its virtual economy to the real world which is why PE is different and exciting.
Personally I cant wait to get a job as a gnome slayer in some virtual world *chuckle*. Beats my current bug slaying job any day.
In the UK BarrysWorld has had a semi-successful p2p system for years - hosting servers for the most popular games and charging for league games, dial up access to lower pings etc. Sadly they went bankrupt last year but were happily bought up by (I think) EB.
;)
As many have pointed out a p2p FPS just isnt going to work because of latency issues - a ping over 50 is considered bad by many FPS players. MMORPGS over come this problem by having high latency tolerant game systems - however that really limits the type of play. Even now that market is starting to stagnate due to the number of poor clone type games being foist onto the market in order to cash in.
project entropia has an interesting slant on all of this - players get the game and play for free but to get the most from the game they have to put real money into a virtual economy - check it out, very nice concept.
Of course the REAL p2p market doesnt exist in the states - people are paying to play games via SMS now ( mobile phone text messages ) and download the games to their phones. Once 3G ( NOT 2.5 ) appears with high powered mobile devices and good quality displays the p2p gaming market is going to EXPLODE!! In fact I've been developing a 3G p2p game for the last 2 years - anyone wnat to through me a few million?
www.theregister.co.uk also covered this with editorial this week.
My stance is that if they dont treat security seriously then it WILL only be a matter of time until more secure operating systems erode their market share. Pure lower cost of ownership and reduced administration hassles will drive this.
However they have a HUGE problem in that current versions of windows are so riddled with holes of one shape, size or form so much so that they realistically should be providing free upgrades to every user to make their systems secure.
Microsoft give a free upgrade though? Lol choke - wheres the ambulance?
Sorry matey pips - Until I can't tell the difference between a photorealist scene being rendered in real time and....the real scene itself (!!!lol) I want games companies to keep pushing and pushing the graphics.
When that point is reached and we have true photorealistic FPSs, Racing games etc etc there will be plenty of time for developers to sit back and spend years on gameplay and content rather than technology.
5 to 10 years I reckon and we should start to see some STONKERS!!!
Just LOOK at the specs required to run the latest engine in top notch mode and get decent framerates - painful!!
However the orginal Unreal was one of the reasons I shelled out for a PII 233 and a 12MB voodoo way back then. It was gorgeous and wonderful havnt a system capable of allowing me to lead the pack in deathmatches.
Guess its time to sell the children again *sigh*
Point is that this is a engine/game that I WILL upgrade for ( I bet DNF ends up being delayed while they port to it ) and Im sure lots of other peeps will.....I guess games still are driving hardware sales :)