Here's my summary of the article (deep embedded wisdom and all) in one million words or less:
People don't buy things to *have* things, people buy things to *do* stuff. Focus on letting them do stuff.
For example: I got into the IS/IT business practically by accident because I've been spending 5-10 hours a day with computers every day since I wrote my first AppleBASIC programs in junior high school. For me, this is a hobby, a pastime, what I think about first in the morning and last at night (other than my wife, of course). For me, the point of having a home network with a fast internet connection is having the home network with the fast internet connection. I guess I'm like a plumber who's *really* *into* connecting pipes together; I could give a rat's ass about what comes out of the faucet - that's the water company's problem.
As a result, when I've gotten bored with my current stable of computer toys I do surprisingly little with my PC every day: I check my email, I read/., I sacrifice another 18/50 human warrior to the Emporer Lich in umoria. This takes 15 minutes, tops. Every so often I need a new infusion of toys to give me a reason to play with things again.
If I had the money, I'm the guy that would have bought Betamax, but I am not most people.
Now, let's say I had a friend named Bob, so has a different hobby... for example... say... collecting transvestite GI-Joe action figures. Before 1995 Bob's life is an isolated wasteland. In fact, if transvestite GI-Joes carry any significant weight in determining how he goes about the process of living, then he is quite likely the only guy in town he can relate to. PERIOD.
Since the proliferation of the internet and community communication services like AOL, however, Bob has found an entire universe of people out there who not only share his peculiar action-figure interest, but are into even weirder things he likes such as writing religeous haiku about TV anchorwoman and investigative reporter Paula Zahn.
Bob is a VHS buyer.
For him, $22.95/month for access to AOL's lame chat rooms is a way around the inherent unfairness in the universe that left religiously poetic transvestite-GI-Joe-loving Paula Zahn fans too geographically scattered to have any sort of imapact, especially during the 60's, when they *really* could have done some damage. For him, the computer is incidental; it's a tool to another end. If Guatemalan-Death-Lizard owners could find and communicate with other Guatemalan-Death-Lizard owners for free using a toaster, they'd have one in every room of their houses.
You see, I adopted my geek and brought him home (his name's Mike!) and put him in a jar by the computer so, you know, he could program when I wasn't using the computer and he could help my wife with her email quesions and so on.
Anyway, this morning I went to change the paper and feed him (pepperoni pizza - yum!) and he's *not* *moving*. I prodded him with a Playstation controller and even offered him a game of Moria, but he won't budge.
Should I try calling tech support?
Do I need to put air holes in the jar?
Does anyone know CPR?
Ya know, that's an **AWFUL** **LOT** of pictures of the logo and system case without a single screenshot, and the marketing pitch sounds like it was done by the company that makes my cable TV converter box.
This is stupid, and I'm ignoring it until they come clean about this fictional 32K games number - whaddayawannabet the overwhelming majority of those games are crappy CGA graphics shareware games they downloaded from SIMTEL?
There's nothing to see here.... move along.... move along.....
a) There's no reason to use someone's email address when signing up for Netflix... It essentially gives that someone access to an account paid for with YOUR credit card.
Like I said, I did not access the account, so I do not know if Netflix provides no-CC options or not, whether the CC used was valid or not, nor whether the card itself was stolen or not. Here's a thought - let's say that it **was** a stolen credit card. Now my email address is on an account that's using a stolen card. Prove that I didn't sign up for the account and fill in a bogus mailing address. There'd be no point you say? Maybe, if I was actually after the movies, but it's still fraud and theft *AND* now carries the added weight of being a FEDERAL crime because the transaction crosses state lines **AND** My email address is listed as a contact on the account. Excuse me for letting paranoia get the best of me, but if I were the FBI, I would AT LEAST sent a couple of agents out to investigate the owner of the email account, so I'm going to complain early and often to make sure that my position is understood by everyone with whom I come in contact.
Plus, now the credit card companies are involved and they have attorneys who's job it is to fight this kind of stuff - ALL DAY LONG. I've heard too many horror stories about innocent people plea-bargaining to make problems like this go away because they cannot afford the battle.
b) How the hell did this guy order DVDs if he didn't have access to your email (and hence the account password).
He put my email address on the sign-up form and Netflix didn't verify it was his. I don't know if he ever accessed the account after his initial order, because I didn't stick around long enough to find out.
c) You would have had nothing to worry about - Whoever was at that address is a different story though. More importantly, whoever's CC# was used to sign up would've had something to worry about.
I would hope so, but I can't assume that -- not when there isn't some sort of clear legislative or legal precedent to identify this sort of thing as identity theft.
It's also possible it was an honest mistake like a typo, though I clearly can't assume that either. It's better to avoid the accident if you have the opportunity than let the accident happen and be in the right.
Here in parts of NE Ohio (Akron, Canton, Mansfield, Youngstown) we've had to do this for a couple of years now because we have two area codes (330 and 234) covering the same region. Technically, though, it's really just 10 digit dialing because the leading '1' is only necessary for long distance calls.
One day a couple of months ago, I got a "Thanks for joining!" message from Netflix. A few hours later, I got several "Thanks for your order, Your DVD rental is on its way" messages. Apparently, some jerk-ass had used **MY** email account to sign up for the service. Sure enough, when I called their customer service department (who were very helpful once they called the phone number on the account and got a non-residential warehouse in California) and complained that I was the victim of, you know, **FRAUD**, they changed the email address to something invalid to prompt a customer service call from the dude who signed up.
The problem is who do they go after when this asshead absconds with the DVDs? Me? I didn't do anything except have an email address someone else used fraudulently. Unfortunately, I'm probably the only contact information they have on the account that leads to an actual human being, and that's why I was so vigilant about complaining early and often.
If anyone was at fault, it was Netflix - mailing lists learned long ago that you cannot assume an email address is valid because someone stuck it in a web form, so they send confirmation messages through an autoreply address validation system.
BTW, one of the early messages I got also included the password for the account. (Good move, NetFlix!!!) I looked up the account to get info for my records, but I didn't change the password or log on to the account (though I was prepared to do so if Netflix couldn't fix the problem). My concern was that some boneheaded prosecutor somewhere would have interpreted that as acknowledging ownership of the account, and I didn't want to be involved any more than I already was.
Wow, the internet r0cks! It's chock-full of useful information. It only took me 12 seconds to find that with Google(TM)!
Yes, that was a joke.....
No, it really wasn't funny.
No, I haven't had coffee yet.
Yes, I *am* sorry I bothered, but I couldn't resist the whole 'ploids' thing. What I can't figure out is how Frito-Lay got ahold of a word from genetics as a boxtop currency. Maybe it just sounds funny... ploids, ploids, ploids.... Yeah, that has to be it.
No, I don't work for Frito-Lay.
Yes, I hate myself now.
Because after you screw up and graffiti in the upper-case "C", the undo buffer gets re-written and the original text is lost. (IIRC, it was a bigger problem with "cut", which (I think) was [commandstroke]+[x]. It *should* be as easy as you say, but it's waylaid by frustratingly bad design. Eventually, I did start using the (much slower) edit menus because of this.
Look, it wasn't that big a deal, just an annoyance I had to learn to live with.
I also remember something from my old Palm V manual about "if you have trouble making certain characters, try writing them backwards (mirror image)" or words to that effect. Sure 'nuff, most characters and numbers can be written that way as well.
My big gripe with Graffiti was that the cut-and-paste commands were easy to botch. I lost data several times because I overwrote the stuff I was trying to copy with a capital 'C'. If you didn't realize right away or the data was too big to undo -- oops! And with PalmOS, it's not like you can quit without saving.:(
CIC's Jot recognition software has long been found on competing handhelds running on the Pocket PC platform. As with Graffiti, its alphabet is based on block characters. However, unlike Graffiti, some characters require two rather than one stroke. Therefore, Jot characters more closely resemble common block letters than Graffiti characters. According to Marlene Somsak, Palm's VP of Communications, this will reduce the learning curve. "For new Palm users, Graffiti 2 powered by Jot is more intuitive and natural than Graffiti," Ms. Somsak told Brighthand.
The letter 'x' requires two strokes on old graffitti - why doesn't that count?
I used X: as a variable since I don't know on which drive his %systemroot% folder is located. Citrix allows you to remap the local drive letters (C, D, E, etc.) on installation to something that won't conflict with the client PC's (M, N, O, etc.). This is taught in the Citrix cert classes, so he'll be aware of it.
I guess on second thought, I should have sent him to search %systemroot% and avoided the issue, but I haven't managed a Citrix network in a few months, so I'm a bit rusty.
Also, when you installed Office, did you run the appropriate app-tuning script afterward? (Search in x:\wtsrv for *.cmd and you'll find a whole bunch of them.) These scripts can make a big difference with certain versions of Windows.
Ahem... No way I would have come up with this on my own, but here goes....
Slashback: Gandalf Cracks WEP With Frodo Card
Wireless (MiddleEarth)Posted by Gandalf-Lover on 09:35 AM January 7th, 2003
from the Sauron-still-uses-WEP?-WHAT-A-TOOL! dept.
elfznic writes "There is a new wardriving utlity for Middle-Earth OS X 10.2 that can put the Frodo card into Ringbearer mode and collect and crack WEP-enabled 802.11b TolkienRingOfPower wireless networks. The application is called 'Fellowship' and it relies on the 'Mordor' driver to put the Frodo card into Ringbearer mode. Both the application and the driver are in beta."
Man, what a bunch of sissies. My wife has a friend that married a gentleman named "Dorkson".
Yup, you heard me, "Dorkson".
He's a great guy, and all, but man - what do you say to that? Understandably, she insists that we pronounce it "Dorrson" because the 'k' is silent, you know.;)
More specifically, it requires you to be able to "get some people together".
On the other hand, it might actually be possible to develop a sort-of geekiness scale to descibe for this sort of project using exchange rates to convert people, money and parts into a common currency of 'Geeks'.
To that end, I therefore propose the following first draft exchange rate schedule subject to negotiation, and (of course) public ridicule:
1 Geek for each potential human participant eliminated.
1 Geek for each $100 spent on hardware/parts.
-1 Geek for Each $500 spent on commercial software.
0.2 Geek for each year of age of legacy or vintage tech parts used (> 5 years).
1 Geek for each 1000 Lego(TM) blocks used.
1 Geek bonus if a new language (human or computer) resulted from the project.
1 Geek bonus for posting it on your web site.
3 Geek bonus for getting it posted on/.
5 Geek bonus if your web server doesn't melt as a result.
10 Geek bonus is your project *IS* the web server.
I'm sure we can flesh it out a little, but that's a start.
so, let's try it out:
1......1 Human statistician eliminated .5......$50 in parts
-.5......$250 in commercial software (Win2k + Access)
0......0 Legos
0......0 Legacy factor (old parts)
9......Posted on web site, made it to/., server didn't melt.
=====
So, by my calculation, this project rates 10 Geeks.
Not bad, but 90% of that rating comes from the publicity, so I think the scale needs some tuning. I guess the first thing we need to do is calibrate the scale by rating some standard projects so we can figure out what we want a standard 'Geek' to be.
Sigh... *You* still don't understand. I get what you're saying, I just think the proposed alteration is superfluous. There **IS** a way to get from page 2 to page 3 - it's called the browser history. Altering the back button behavior to browse the whole history is redundant.
Furthermore, let's say you do 'back-button' to a node (like #1 above) with several branches. If you 'forward-button' again, which branch do you take? Do you display a menu? Do you take the most recently retreaded path? If so, then you're in the same boat.
It seems to me the problem you have is not with the 'back' button, but the 'forward' button.
What *I* would find useful is adding an alternate page-history view to the browser to display it in a tree-format rather than a flat list, but that has nothing to do with the 'back' button.
Look, we are just going to have to agree that we want it to work two different ways. Please, let's end this so we can get back to something more productive than arguing about back-button behavior.
ALTERNATE INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE NEAR-CRIMINALLY NITPICKY
1. Create a web page www.bozo.com/index.html with links to www.yahoo.com and www.msn.com. Spend big-bucks to rent a server on rackspace to host my 1337 paradigm-shattering pagX0rz.
2. Lather, rinse, repeat my original instructions using the web page to type in the URLs for you.
If you really have that big a problem with the way the back button works, fine. Just make sure you leave an option so I can switch the behavior back to "broken" and we can all be happy.
BTW, It's pretty lame to accuse me of not understanding how the stupid 'back' button works. You are apparently not able to correlate the similarities between a clicked link and a typed-in URL. How weak is that?!?!
Hey, does anybody else out there think that this has less to do with Bill and more to do with Monkeyboy? AFAIK, Bill hasn't been involved in the daily operations since we wandered off into the woods to meditate about the interenet in '97. Steve's the guy that's really been running things.
I don't think it has anything to do with going "up in the heirarchy" to the slashdot main page on any web site.
1. type in www.slashdot.com
2. type in www.yahoo.com
3. hit back
4. type in www.msn.com
Now, try to get to www.yahoo.com using the back button. See? Same thing, no site organization or heirarchies involved anywhere.
Rather, the problem is that the back and forward buttons move you within a linear chain of pages independent of the sites they are on. If you go back in that chain and then type in a new URL, you've truncated off the tail end of that chain and replaced it with the new page.
I've been aware of this effect or years, but I never considered it a problem that required a solution.
Methinks the researchers doth smokest too mucheth. That or they're desperate for more researchbucks(TM).
Slashdot Mirror
because an msql server is not a car. it's refrigerator and you are leaving it out on the street, then you wonder why people are stealing your food.
put it in the house behind the front door where it belongs
Embracing and extending the analogy...
It's more like a refrigerator in a resturant: the only access to the data should be through the restaurant staff.
Ugh.
Here's my summary of the article (deep embedded wisdom and all) in one million words or less:
People don't buy things to *have* things, people buy things to *do* stuff. Focus on letting them do stuff.
For example: I got into the IS/IT business practically by accident because I've been spending 5-10 hours a day with computers every day since I wrote my first AppleBASIC programs in junior high school. For me, this is a hobby, a pastime, what I think about first in the morning and last at night (other than my wife, of course). For me, the point of having a home network with a fast internet connection is having the home network with the fast internet connection. I guess I'm like a plumber who's *really* *into* connecting pipes together; I could give a rat's ass about what comes out of the faucet - that's the water company's problem.
As a result, when I've gotten bored with my current stable of computer toys I do surprisingly little with my PC every day: I check my email, I read
If I had the money, I'm the guy that would have bought Betamax, but I am not most people.
Now, let's say I had a friend named Bob, so has a different hobby... for example... say... collecting transvestite GI-Joe action figures. Before 1995 Bob's life is an isolated wasteland. In fact, if transvestite GI-Joes carry any significant weight in determining how he goes about the process of living, then he is quite likely the only guy in town he can relate to. PERIOD.
Since the proliferation of the internet and community communication services like AOL, however, Bob has found an entire universe of people out there who not only share his peculiar action-figure interest, but are into even weirder things he likes such as writing religeous haiku about TV anchorwoman and investigative reporter Paula Zahn.
Bob is a VHS buyer.
For him, $22.95/month for access to AOL's lame chat rooms is a way around the inherent unfairness in the universe that left religiously poetic transvestite-GI-Joe-loving Paula Zahn fans too geographically scattered to have any sort of imapact, especially during the 60's, when they *really* could have done some damage. For him, the computer is incidental; it's a tool to another end. If Guatemalan-Death-Lizard owners could find and communicate with other Guatemalan-Death-Lizard owners for free using a toaster, they'd have one in every room of their houses.
Umm.... how long are they supposed to sleep?
You see, I adopted my geek and brought him home (his name's Mike!) and put him in a jar by the computer so, you know, he could program when I wasn't using the computer and he could help my wife with her email quesions and so on.
Anyway, this morning I went to change the paper and feed him (pepperoni pizza - yum!) and he's *not* *moving*. I prodded him with a Playstation controller and even offered him a game of Moria, but he won't budge.
Should I try calling tech support?
Do I need to put air holes in the jar?
Does anyone know CPR?
Oh well, back to dot.kde.org!
This may or may not help, but if you think software might help to manage the support process, you might try Double Choco Latte.
Ya know, that's an **AWFUL** **LOT** of pictures of the logo and system case without a single screenshot, and the marketing pitch sounds like it was done by the company that makes my cable TV converter box.
This is stupid, and I'm ignoring it until they come clean about this fictional 32K games number - whaddayawannabet the overwhelming majority of those games are crappy CGA graphics shareware games they downloaded from SIMTEL?
There's nothing to see here.... move along.... move along.....
a) There's no reason to use someone's email address when signing up for Netflix... It essentially gives that someone access to an account paid for with YOUR credit card.
Like I said, I did not access the account, so I do not know if Netflix provides no-CC options or not, whether the CC used was valid or not, nor whether the card itself was stolen or not. Here's a thought - let's say that it **was** a stolen credit card. Now my email address is on an account that's using a stolen card. Prove that I didn't sign up for the account and fill in a bogus mailing address. There'd be no point you say? Maybe, if I was actually after the movies, but it's still fraud and theft *AND* now carries the added weight of being a FEDERAL crime because the transaction crosses state lines **AND** My email address is listed as a contact on the account. Excuse me for letting paranoia get the best of me, but if I were the FBI, I would AT LEAST sent a couple of agents out to investigate the owner of the email account, so I'm going to complain early and often to make sure that my position is understood by everyone with whom I come in contact.
Plus, now the credit card companies are involved and they have attorneys who's job it is to fight this kind of stuff - ALL DAY LONG. I've heard too many horror stories about innocent people plea-bargaining to make problems like this go away because they cannot afford the battle.
b) How the hell did this guy order DVDs if he didn't have access to your email (and hence the account password).
He put my email address on the sign-up form and Netflix didn't verify it was his. I don't know if he ever accessed the account after his initial order, because I didn't stick around long enough to find out.
c) You would have had nothing to worry about - Whoever was at that address is a different story though. More importantly, whoever's CC# was used to sign up would've had something to worry about.
I would hope so, but I can't assume that -- not when there isn't some sort of clear legislative or legal precedent to identify this sort of thing as identity theft.
It's also possible it was an honest mistake like a typo, though I clearly can't assume that either. It's better to avoid the accident if you have the opportunity than let the accident happen and be in the right.
Here in parts of NE Ohio (Akron, Canton, Mansfield, Youngstown) we've had to do this for a couple of years now because we have two area codes (330 and 234) covering the same region. Technically, though, it's really just 10 digit dialing because the leading '1' is only necessary for long distance calls.
Damn right it's identity theft!
One day a couple of months ago, I got a "Thanks for joining!" message from Netflix. A few hours later, I got several "Thanks for your order, Your DVD rental is on its way" messages. Apparently, some jerk-ass had used **MY** email account to sign up for the service. Sure enough, when I called their customer service department (who were very helpful once they called the phone number on the account and got a non-residential warehouse in California) and complained that I was the victim of, you know, **FRAUD**, they changed the email address to something invalid to prompt a customer service call from the dude who signed up.
The problem is who do they go after when this asshead absconds with the DVDs? Me? I didn't do anything except have an email address someone else used fraudulently. Unfortunately, I'm probably the only contact information they have on the account that leads to an actual human being, and that's why I was so vigilant about complaining early and often.
If anyone was at fault, it was Netflix - mailing lists learned long ago that you cannot assume an email address is valid because someone stuck it in a web form, so they send confirmation messages through an autoreply address validation system.
BTW, one of the early messages I got also included the password for the account. (Good move, NetFlix!!!) I looked up the account to get info for my records, but I didn't change the password or log on to the account (though I was prepared to do so if Netflix couldn't fix the problem). My concern was that some boneheaded prosecutor somewhere would have interpreted that as acknowledging ownership of the account, and I didn't want to be involved any more than I already was.
I'm just glad it's over.
HEY, THAT'S **MY** EMAIL ADDRESS!!!
Get your own lies, thief!
Sincerely,
G.Steve Arnold
a@b.com
Whoever you are, you sure get around.
For those of you who are wondering what a "ploid" is, here's an FAQ on the subject.
Wow, the internet r0cks! It's chock-full of useful information. It only took me 12 seconds to find that with Google(TM)!
Yes, that was a joke.....
No, it really wasn't funny.
No, I haven't had coffee yet.
Yes, I *am* sorry I bothered, but I couldn't resist the whole 'ploids' thing. What I can't figure out is how Frito-Lay got ahold of a word from genetics as a boxtop currency. Maybe it just sounds funny... ploids, ploids, ploids.... Yeah, that has to be it.
No, I don't work for Frito-Lay.
Yes, I hate myself now.
Because after you screw up and graffiti in the upper-case "C", the undo buffer gets re-written and the original text is lost. (IIRC, it was a bigger problem with "cut", which (I think) was [commandstroke]+[x]. It *should* be as easy as you say, but it's waylaid by frustratingly bad design. Eventually, I did start using the (much slower) edit menus because of this.
Look, it wasn't that big a deal, just an annoyance I had to learn to live with.
I also remember something from my old Palm V manual about "if you have trouble making certain characters, try writing them backwards (mirror image)" or words to that effect. Sure 'nuff, most characters and numbers can be written that way as well.
My big gripe with Graffiti was that the cut-and-paste commands were easy to botch. I lost data several times because I overwrote the stuff I was trying to copy with a capital 'C'. If you didn't realize right away or the data was too big to undo -- oops! And with PalmOS, it's not like you can quit without saving.
Really?
CIC's Jot recognition software has long been found on competing handhelds running on the Pocket PC platform. As with Graffiti, its alphabet is based on block characters. However, unlike Graffiti, some characters require two rather than one stroke. Therefore, Jot characters more closely resemble common block letters than Graffiti characters. According to Marlene Somsak, Palm's VP of Communications, this will reduce the learning curve. "For new Palm users, Graffiti 2 powered by Jot is more intuitive and natural than Graffiti," Ms. Somsak told Brighthand.
The letter 'x' requires two strokes on old graffitti - why doesn't that count?
Uhh, yes they do, just not the kinda of apps *everyone* uses.
Thankfully, they are in fact dying off, however slowly.
I used X: as a variable since I don't know on which drive his %systemroot% folder is located. Citrix allows you to remap the local drive letters (C, D, E, etc.) on installation to something that won't conflict with the client PC's (M, N, O, etc.). This is taught in the Citrix cert classes, so he'll be aware of it.
I guess on second thought, I should have sent him to search %systemroot% and avoided the issue, but I haven't managed a Citrix network in a few months, so I'm a bit rusty.
If the problem is 16 bit DOS apps, Tame can help.
Also, when you installed Office, did you run the appropriate app-tuning script afterward? (Search in x:\wtsrv for *.cmd and you'll find a whole bunch of them.) These scripts can make a big difference with certain versions of Windows.
You might also try the MetaFrame Installation and Tuning Tips. You might find a more recent version if you dig around.
Ahem... No way I would have come up with this on my own, but here goes....
Slashback: Gandalf Cracks WEP With Frodo Card
Wireless (MiddleEarth)Posted by Gandalf-Lover on 09:35 AM January 7th, 2003
from the Sauron-still-uses-WEP?-WHAT-A-TOOL! dept.
elfznic writes "There is a new wardriving utlity for Middle-Earth OS X 10.2 that can put the Frodo card into Ringbearer mode and collect and crack WEP-enabled 802.11b TolkienRingOfPower wireless networks. The application is called 'Fellowship' and it relies on the 'Mordor' driver to put the Frodo card into Ringbearer mode. Both the application and the driver are in beta."
Man, what a bunch of sissies. My wife has a friend that married a gentleman named "Dorkson".
Yup, you heard me, "Dorkson".
He's a great guy, and all, but man - what do you say to that? Understandably, she insists that we pronounce it "Dorrson" because the 'k' is silent, you know.
More specifically, it requires you to be able to "get some people together".
On the other hand, it might actually be possible to develop a sort-of geekiness scale to descibe for this sort of project using exchange rates to convert people, money and parts into a common currency of 'Geeks'.
To that end, I therefore propose the following first draft exchange rate schedule subject to negotiation, and (of course) public ridicule:
1 Geek for each potential human participant eliminated.
1 Geek for each $100 spent on hardware/parts.
-1 Geek for Each $500 spent on commercial software.
0.2 Geek for each year of age of legacy or vintage tech parts used (> 5 years).
1 Geek for each 1000 Lego(TM) blocks used.
1 Geek bonus if a new language (human or computer) resulted from the project.
1 Geek bonus for posting it on your web site.
3 Geek bonus for getting it posted on
5 Geek bonus if your web server doesn't melt as a result.
10 Geek bonus is your project *IS* the web server.
I'm sure we can flesh it out a little, but that's a start. so, let's try it out:
1......1 Human statistician eliminated
-.5......$250 in commercial software (Win2k + Access)
0......0 Legos
0......0 Legacy factor (old parts)
9......Posted on web site, made it to
=====
So, by my calculation, this project rates 10 Geeks.
Not bad, but 90% of that rating comes from the publicity, so I think the scale needs some tuning. I guess the first thing we need to do is calibrate the scale by rating some standard projects so we can figure out what we want a standard 'Geek' to be.
Sigh... *You* still don't understand. I get what you're saying, I just think the proposed alteration is superfluous. There **IS** a way to get from page 2 to page 3 - it's called the browser history. Altering the back button behavior to browse the whole history is redundant.
Furthermore, let's say you do 'back-button' to a node (like #1 above) with several branches. If you 'forward-button' again, which branch do you take? Do you display a menu? Do you take the most recently retreaded path? If so, then you're in the same boat.
It seems to me the problem you have is not with the 'back' button, but the 'forward' button.
What *I* would find useful is adding an alternate page-history view to the browser to display it in a tree-format rather than a flat list, but that has nothing to do with the 'back' button.
Look, we are just going to have to agree that we want it to work two different ways. Please, let's end this so we can get back to something more productive than arguing about back-button behavior.
We can *both* do more damage if we split up.
Criminy! Gimme a frickin' break!
ALTERNATE INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE NEAR-CRIMINALLY NITPICKY
1. Create a web page www.bozo.com/index.html with links to www.yahoo.com and www.msn.com. Spend big-bucks to rent a server on rackspace to host my 1337 paradigm-shattering pagX0rz.
2. Lather, rinse, repeat my original instructions using the web page to type in the URLs for you.
If you really have that big a problem with the way the back button works, fine. Just make sure you leave an option so I can switch the behavior back to "broken" and we can all be happy.
BTW, It's pretty lame to accuse me of not understanding how the stupid 'back' button works. You are apparently not able to correlate the similarities between a clicked link and a typed-in URL. How weak is that?!?!
Hey, does anybody else out there think that this has less to do with Bill and more to do with Monkeyboy? AFAIK, Bill hasn't been involved in the daily operations since we wandered off into the woods to meditate about the interenet in '97. Steve's the guy that's really been running things.
I don't think it has anything to do with going "up in the heirarchy" to the slashdot main page on any web site.
1. type in www.slashdot.com
2. type in www.yahoo.com
3. hit back
4. type in www.msn.com
Now, try to get to www.yahoo.com using the back button. See? Same thing, no site organization or heirarchies involved anywhere.
Rather, the problem is that the back and forward buttons move you within a linear chain of pages independent of the sites they are on. If you go back in that chain and then type in a new URL, you've truncated off the tail end of that chain and replaced it with the new page.
I've been aware of this effect or years, but I never considered it a problem that required a solution.
Methinks the researchers doth smokest too mucheth. That or they're desperate for more researchbucks(TM).