Slashdot Mirror
Phantom Game Console
jasoncart writes "In a bold move newly formed US technology company Infinium Labs Corporation have announced the release of a new gaming console. They promise that it will be faster than any other console on the market, and have a huge games catalog (32k+ games apparently) available over broadband. Can they take on the big boys? Is broadband pentration high enough? Only time will tell - prototypes are promised in March." There's also an interview with their PR spokesdrone. *cough*Indrema.*cough*
This is doomed to failure. Without any of the big name gaming companies to back them up, noone will buy the console.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the next 3do
no
It's either fraud, stupidity, or MAME-in-a-box.
can you heat an egg on its heatsink?
REAL gaming machines cook eggs.
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
But can it topple Duke Nukem Forever as the #1 vaporware item for this year?!?!?!
Pong, Breakout, Space Invaders..
Trolling is a art,
Who wants to bet they'll be the 32000 worst games ever.
more than just 32k games and a great console. They need the mindshare and advertising power that Sony and Microsoft have, and to a lesser extent, Nintendo.
Even then, I think consumers already have enough with the PS2, XBox, and GameCube. Will they pick up a fourth?
The idea of playing games over broadband is interesting, but that's already a common use for computers (where you would have the broadband!).
--------
Free your mind.
Think they're seeking capital?
I hope it's quicker than their web server
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
Itdosn't seem like they've got the bandwidth to survive a slashdotting. how do they expect to push the games down constantly?
sounds like a rom box, every rom ever made for every console and 3 included ok games
-NM
i wonder how long they debated whether or not to keep "phantom" or go with the name "vapor".
How in the world are they going to have 32,000 games to start with? Are that many in the world now? This must be a case of quantity over quality.
(32k+ games apparently) available over broadband
That's nothing! My old Apple IIe could play 64k games!
Something tells me this is just a joke. I sat and listened to the little media hype thingy, and I actually laughed out loud.
It shows a little rendered image of a console, while saying things like "Imagine being able to pay for each play" and "Imagine downloading the latest patches and bugfixes".
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
If they try to take this device and compete with Nintendo, MS and Sony they have no chance to survive. The product is too ahead of its time to make any money. However, it could be succesful if they market it to hotels, airlines, trains, doctors, dentists, cafes, etc. Put a money slot on it and put it in various public places. I think if they market it this way they can be quite profitable.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
... because calling it vapor would have been too obvious.
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
What variation of solitare do you want to play today?
It is interesting that the richest company in the world (Microsoft) released a game console to take on the clear leader in the console market (Sony), and has lost TONS of money attempting to gain market share in this market. Now, an unknown company with who knows how much cash on hand is going to attempt to squeeze out these 2 leaders... Someone get the company e-mail address and send them Chapter 11 paperwork now.
I don't think 684 versions of Tetris, each with slightly different graphics, should count as distinct games.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Instant Vaporware!
yup. they claimed 32k games served over broadband. how do they expect to sell anything at all now that their server is slag?
What Would Satan Do?
Anyway, if they actually did make 32,679 separate games, most of them probably suck due to lack of imagination, polish, play testing, or they simply aren't fun. The idea is halfway decent, though I don't think enough people have broadband to make this viable, but the details are rather far-fetched.
... Let's hope they have better luck with their console than with their web applications!
I guess broadband penetration is good enough to slaughter their current server... hope they're investing in some infrastructure.
It's not 32,000 games, it's 32K games. Games which fit in 32K.
But this machine will play them very quickly, as it's the fastest machine on the market.
And, you've got to admit, "Phantom" is the perfect name for a vaporware console.
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
It's always great to see some competition in the stagnant console market. Also, I wonder if they've given any thought to releasing a Linux distro for this sucker. If I read the article correctly, it has support for Ethernet, so this might make a cool little X terminal for mom.
Supporting Linux would be a key advantage over existing console makers, who go out of their way to prevent customers from running a real OS on their devices.
Maybe this time next year I'll be posting this comment from a GNU/Phantom boxin! Here's hoping they see the light.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
... those 32K games will likely be made up of 6000 different versions of Super Mario Bros. 1, 3000 versions of Tetris, 2000 versions of Contra and 3400 versions of Kid Icarus, all with minor sprite changes throughout. The games list will also include a handful of throwaways like Section Z, Lunar Pool and Mappy Land.
J
How can they have that many games for it - I didn't know that many had ever been written for any computer or console. It seems like bullshit / april fools to me.
If it is real, I bet it's just a PC in a box... it's all it can be.
-- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
Whatever I happened to that?
To think, I was -this- close to packing my bags and going to work for an Indrema developer.
*whew*
The project seemed pretty exciting.
We don't need your (what you think are) witty comments making fun of a real business
And you Maaam are a gutless wonder, who posts crap w/o backing any of it up when called.
Where are the PR's you submitted where you document the bugs you claim to have found?
A pity this "startup" borrowed the name of a 1981-founded company that owns infinium.com NASDAQ: INFM which doesn't mention this announcement.
It's not like it's a common english word...
Just tried to read the arcticle again, and it's not slow anymore. It responds with a runtime error in under 2 seconds :) Can anyone else smell burning?
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
Interviewer: Hey, why are there wheels on the console? Spokesman: It's faster than any other console on the market. Interviewer: Umm... usually when referring to the spees of the console, you quote the processor speed, or some benchmark. Spokesman: You want a benchmark? This thing gets 112 Miles per gallon. The tank holds a pint. You do the math. Interviewer: What's the purpose of a moving console? Spokesman: It's the ultimate mobile platform.
Karma: Raspberry Kiwi
A small goup here in the U.K. think we might have a solution to entry into this sort of market: possibly utilising open-source software & tech. (But ultimately in a no idealistic way).
;)
Don't worry we're not thinking of releasing a console (ala Indrema). And hopefully we wont be needing huge ammounts of start capital. Aside from that we're in early stages so I'm keeping quiet for now.
Well, anyway, good luck to these guys; they'll need it. Even if they don't make it, we may have a pleasant suprise for you in Winter 2003/04
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Flash games freely availible that'd get them a large catalog...why someone would want to use their console to play those games is another question.
------ Work is so much easier when you don't
Hey Junis won't have to work so hard now to get games to work on his Comodore 64 from under the sand.
The C64 should handle the 32K games alot better than the Divx movies he normally watches- and he's already got a high speed hookup...
Anyone else remember typing in games from magazines?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
From what I read when downloading and testing Windows 2003 server RC 2 (aka .Net Server), it was not to be used in production environments as it is still in a beta stage??
Oops. Looks like someone didn't get the memo.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Yeah, OK, I'll bite.
Console gaming systems are among the highest selling products of all-time. What's fascinating is that sales figures of console systems like PS2, X-Box, Gamecube, etc. have shown to be recession-proof and nearly always in the black year after year for the past decade or two.
So, while yours was an interesting troll attempt, your inclusiong of a blatant and easily-disproved non-fact in the first sentence is what messed you up.
Re-write for a B-.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
web server is down, did however give an intresting error page. I wonder if the code is right from the config file or if that is just example code
:/
also there is no google cache either
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
I grew up with the rise of consoles - from the early ones like the atari and pong - through NES and its siblings to now, the ps2 xbox etc, just as many of us have. But I still do not own one.
I had a sega, I had NES and super NES and dreamcast. But I choose not to buy any new ones now.
I have played computer games religously ever since I was in 3rd grade. I play games on my PC and thats how I like it.
I have a big comfy chair - a huge monitor and a very fast machine - in a room dedicated to computer gaming. I prefer this setup greatly over sitting on the floor in front of my TV. I prefer the level of interaction that a PC can provide.
I dont have any desire for an xbox, ps2 gamecube or other... my PC is just fine. and it serves a hell of a lot more functions than a console system.
The current prices of hardware is incredible. I just built another great system for $400. at just twice the price of an xbox/ps2 I get 1000 times the functionality.
Unless the system they are offering is $25.00 and I dont have to pay any sort of monthly access (like if it were to utilize my *exisiting* lan and broadband connection - without a large price for a lan adapter - i will continue to have no interest in console systems.
What they should do is focus on making a PCI card that you can insert into your PC and utilize its hardware to make it a "console" system in that it can hold the controllers and play all the games - for a minimal cost.
then make all the money off the price of the games (which are already overpriced at $50.)
They claim to ship bundled a 2.4G wireless controller, which would be a great addition to the standard box of any console. Wireless controllers have gotten much better than the ol' Atari with an antenna.
The distribution of games seens overly ambition, but it's an interesting concept. It'd be like getting the Playstation Underground demo disc automatically as soon as a game is released...instant demo for all games. And purchases would be relatively immediate as well, no need to go to the store and actually shop. Add the possibility of rental and consolidation of MMORPG payments into that, and there is some potential for continuous sales and income.
Maybe it is a really big MAME box...or more like Citrix hooked up to a really big MAME box. Technology rarely pushes the success of a console faster than quality titles and developers, so it's likely this will become vaporware due to lack of developers rather than the failure of a broadband box. But if this has the potential to pull more game sales into the homes of gamers (like Xbox's project that every xbox sold will purchase 9 games) than other consoles, it might just be crazy enough to work.
-Barkeep, a draft of your most hazardous brew, for the world is slowly stepping into focus, and I don't like what I see.
Boy that flash intro with 4 static images was really worth the download/loading time.
Their blurb reads like toxic corporate MBA talk. "It'll change the world forever, parents will be able to monitor what their children play." blah blah blah.
This is a company which -obviously- doesn't know who it's target audience is. You don't win people over with a cheesy looking computer model of your console. You win them over by showing flashy graphics in your commercials matched with good games.
This company is doomed to go down in flames unless they figure out how to play with the big boys and their big PR companies.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
Gosh, gang! My uncle's got a barn! We could put on a play!
I meant "stagnant" in that the companies, consoles, and games tend to stay relatively the same. That is, there's a dearth of competition in the industry. I'd say the same of the bread industry, even though they also make lots of money. Not many players and little innovation.
-tp
No really, go read it. It'll take a little extra time, but it could be the most hilarious thing you'll see in months.
2 0P ress%20Annoucment%204.0.htm
.
http://www.infiniumlabs.com/PR/Infinium%20Labs%
I've seen companies promise a subset of the features that I want in product XYZ, but this is the first time I've ever seen a company promote that it has every single feature ever
A good quote: "Combining skills from Telco, Data Communications, Digital Rights Management, Software Development and Security, the management team brings together a unique array of skills to develop the most robust next generation gaming console and delivery network on the market."
Wha?
It's just too funny on its own... I can't add to anything they've said...
DNF was named correctly, it will take them forever to write it.
By my count, MAME 0.63b has about 3700 ROM's (give or take a couple, some are just varients of each other), 32k is almost 10x more games than that. Seeing how it took about 25 years alone to make those ROM's, I can't see how it is humanly possible to create 32k games. Even a rehash of games of yore (PC, NES, SNES, SEGA, etc) would hardly break the 25k mark. That's a LOT of games.
Is that socialist halfwit Michael Sims even awake? Ordinarily he would have bitch-slapped this post into oblivion long ago.
The man tends to be keen on dissent only when it agrees with his distorted view of the world( in which he, of course, is always right ), so I am quite surprised to see this still at +2.
Whether he's asleep or getting slow in his old age remains to be seen.
Moreover, foresee the ability to develop games on a nonproprietary system, which is Windows based, something relatively unheard of today.
How nonproprietary can it possibly be if it's "Windows based"? Do they mean Xwindows?
Ryan T. Sammartino
"Ancora imparo"
Redundant maybe but hardly a troll. Fricken dumbass moderator
According to the interview link, the console will use PC hardware and be able to run PC games. Somehow I'm envisioning lots of crappy bargin bin games. And if the system doesn't come with a mouse and keyboard I really don't see the point.
I think I have the answer to everyone's questions about this machine: the whole thing is B.S. - B.S. hoping for some V.C.
This is more or less a PC with Windows and TV out. Which makes it nothing more than the Indrema rehashed, except it uses Windows as the OS instead of Linux.
Using Windows allows them to claim 32k games (they are listing pretty much all retail games that have ever been released for Windows as their 'launch titles')...But it also means this box is going to be EXPENSIVE compared to other consoles because each one will need a licensed copy of Windows and something tells me Microsoft isn't going to bend over backwards to give these guys a sweet bulk licensing deal.
I think the fact that Microsoft spend billions on the XBOX launch and is still trailing pretty far behind the big boys in the console market shows how difficult it is to get a foot in the door here.
These guys are fucked..Just plain fucked.
My guess is that because their system can take PC games, they're claiming that every game made for the PC counts as a game for their platform. Hence the 32,000 games. Thing is, though, if all their platform is is just a PC, why not just buy a PC? I mean, with the X-Box you had a PC, but a PC that can play many propriatary games. That attracts customers. This system, i'd guess, doesn't offer any games you can't play elsewhere. Also, I know most slashdotters have broadband, but a lot of folks don't. Making broadband as the way you buy your games insures that the people who don't want to or can't pay for broadband won't use your system. Never make it difficult for your customers to buy things and give you money....
If these people want to succeed, they really need to have an easy, non broadband way to order games, and they need to have content for their platform that you can't get anywhere else. I'm not saying these people will fail, but as things stand their business model doesn't look promising.
Put a money slot on it and put it in various public places
Licenses for public performance of a copyrighted work tend to be more expensive than licenses for distribution intended for private home viewing.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Server Error in '/' Application. Runtime Error Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine. Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off". Notes: The current error page you are seeing can be replaced by a custom error page by modifying the "defaultRedirect" attribute of the application's configuration tag to point to a custom error page URL.
Remember the old "Combat" game for the atari 2600? I believe it was marketed as something like "40 games in one!" even though the games were all on the order of:
1. Tanks shoot eachother
2. Tanks shoot eachother with bouncing bullets
3. Tanks shoot eachother around obstacles
4. Tanks shoot eachother around obstacles with bouncing bullets
etc...
All they would need is one game and 15 things to toggle on and off, and that should get you to about 32,000 different "games".
... until I get my own 64DD. In fact, I here there'll be a Robotech game for the N64 any day now...
Maybe that's just a marketing stunt: they made a game reconfigurable one way or another (you can change landscapes, heroes, sceneries, whatever) and by combining every possibility your reach 32K games. That would explain the power-of-two number and the otherwise unbelievable announcement.
oops
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
I don't think 684 versions of Tetris, each with slightly different graphics, should count as distinct games.
As far as I know, the puzzle gaming community accepts that Tetris, Columns, Klax, Dr. Mario, Puyo Puyo, Zoop, Tetris Attack, and Puzzle Fighter II are distinct games. But should six versions of Tetris with different rules count as distinct games? What about a falling tetramino game where the screen rotates, zooms, and eventually shears like a TV tuned to a scrambled channel?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Nice try, but Sony sells an add-on hd/keyboard/mouse combo for the PS2 and even packs in their own little distro.
Also, what makes you say the console market is stagnant? Sony sells exactly 18 bazillion gillion consoles a year, and Nintendo/MS are neck and neck for that second place spot. If anything, more consoles will fracture the gaming market in a bad way (see: atari 2600 vs colecovision vs intellivision vs some crappy fairchild box vs etc etc)
I don't buy any of it. But where to start?
"talking with my Uncle Isaac a few weeks ago... As a Sony employee, he has access to internal releases..."
But somehow none of the insider news sites got even a glimmer of this? No one but your "Uncle Isaac" mentioned it to anyone outside the company?
They're going to "use a Transmeta chip, so that the CPU's instruction set can be "field-programmed..."
Hmm, will the transmeta chip also emulate the memory architectures, audio co-processors, etc?
Other things said don't even make sense... "Infinium is going to be paying them to produce each unit (instead of the converse which they often see with their own products).
Just enough smoke and mirrors to sound almost correct. Nice job.
(crap, he's posted like SIX stories today, and none of them are DOOPS! Look's like he's trying to show that he does pay attention!)
What they should do is focus on making a PCI card that you can insert into your PC and utilize its hardware to make it a "console" system in that it can hold the controllers and play all the games - for a minimal cost.
That's called an ATI Radeon card plus an EMS USB2 adapter. The Radeon card displays advanced ATI graphics in OpenGL and Direct3D formats. (ATI's ArtX division worked on the GameCube graphics hardware.) The EMS USB2 adapter lets you use a pair of PS1 controllers, Dual Shock controllers, Dual Shock 2 controllers, or RedOctane dance pads on any game that supports USB joysticks.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't know which one I have a harder time believing:
;-)
1. A person quoting their "Uncle Isaac."
2. Or a vapor-as-of-now console named "Phantom."
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Well, fuck that NDA.
I present to you: Springtime for Hitler, the console.
It looks like they decided to place their press release on the Phantom web server...
Phantom game console?!?!? more like celda
If they want to they can count Ultimate Blaster. I bet this is what they are doing. Counting all the freeware/shareware games out there in addition to the commercial releases. I wonder how much it is going to cost them to ship this box with Windows installed.
Lasers Controlled Games!
This console can't fail - it will never come out at all. Talk about smoke and mirrors, even the hype is obviously bogus.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Competition is always a great thing in the business world, because *generally* the consumer wins. At present there is no way this startup can compete. Sony, Nintendo, and even Microsoft to a lesser part have put millions-billions in research. Slapping together this weeks fastest graphics chip with an x86 processor does not mean it's the fastest system, actually thats far from the truth. If it were that simple everyone would make their own consoles. To have the gaming industry take them seriously, perhaps they should come down to planet earth talk about realistic game numbers, because it's quality that counts not quantity. The indrema touted good things too, yet look where that turned out. I suggest they put their money where their mouth is and prove that it is much faster then other consoles, because at the moment they are nothing more then a Realian game console manufacturer.
This just smells bad. First of all the HomeLan Fed article is very VERY vague on details.
"Fastest console"
"32k games"
C'mon. This is cliche grande marketing hype. Not to poo poo on HomeLan either but why grant them the interview? Wouldn't you announce this on some big time game publication or at least Gamespy if you wanted to make a big splash? This, or course, is to say nothing about the above relevant comments regarding 3rd party support, big names, etc... etc... I smell a stinker.
Have a Happy.
So they take a copy of MAME and provide a port. That's 3000 games. 10 variations on each. Yup, I can see the math.
Sheesh!
Cmon guys, "K" is the ESRB rating for "kids" like PG for movies.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
On the one hand, they appear to be charging for downloads of traditional PC games, so it appears that they have finally found another way to take commodity hardware and make money licensing game sales (the other, XBox).
Outperforming a generation of consoles that was released over two years ago isn't particularly difficult... The Dreamcast did it quite well, but failed miserably in the market. The key is not to be better than everyone else, (the PS2 is currently the slowest console available), but to be so much better that all of the developers flock to your system and produce must-have games. With a system of renting otherwise available PC games, I don't see how they will have any of the exclusives they need to thrive, unless they develop them themselves.
Limiting themselves to broadband-only customers and broadband-only distribution is an interesting choice. Traditionally, if you wanted to sell a console you had to convince hundreds of thousands of stores across the world to devote 5 - 20 feet of shelf space to your product... a difficult task to say the least. However, by going with broadband, they have cut out that huge fixed cost. If they didn't go overboard with their DRM and can find a somewhat linearly scaling manufacturing facility (difficult, I admit), they *could* survive on a very small installed userbase. They will have to work with the Nintendo model (all partners absorb fixed cost risks in exchange for a cut of razor blade sales), but I could really see them living comfortably on a base of 1 to 2 million people or less.
On the other hand, by going with broadband, they have limited themselves to selling a crippled, specialized PC to people who are guaranteed to already have a full-fledged PC. Microsoft tried it with the XBox, and while sales aren't horrible, they are still losing the race with a lunchbox. Infinium will have to develop / buy exclusives, and it doesn't seem like they have the funding to do that.
Furthermore, DRM and temporary rentals are *designed* to frustrate consumers, and the home entertainment device crowd is notoriously unforgiving when they feel they have been wronged. They will have to dance a fine line between demos / rentals / subscriptions / and sales. Just reading their mission statement makes me wonder if they will have anytime, night-and-weekend, and overtime minutes. Can I get extra minutes if I sign to a one-year contract? What do you mean I owe $170 dollars for going over? But it was Final Fantasy, what do you expect me to do?
I'd like to say I have high-hopes in this situation, but high hopes in this situation would be survival.
-c
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
32,000 games is about what there is available for PC. I think this will be a PC without a keyboard using a per-per-play system to download and play from broadband. Just about any game could be downloaded and played this way, if the license could be worked out.
Now i even have another reason to not leave my house.
If your definition of a 'game' is a 1980's platformer with a rotating color palette.
The answer to the 32k games statement seems pretty obvious to me. I think that in addition to having a small set of games written for and optimized for their supposedly powerful platform, they will put emulators in the box by default. Boot code will detect a disc/cartridge of Type X and load the appropriate emulator from rom. They could easily emulate NES, SNES, N64, PS1, Sega up through Dreamcast, and maybe PS2 althought I'm not entirely sure on that. The 32k games will be other consoles' games that you can replay on this one. It's the only way that number can make sense.
11*43+456^2
THIS COMPANY "MADE THE FIRST BROADBAND CONSOLE!"
So let me get this straight, they made the Xbox?
Or, PS2?
Or, Dreamcast?
Those were all Broadband.
Dont companies look to see who they are competing against?
Nothing better than to kick off an online marketing campaign with a good slashdotting.
Clearly 32K games means "our game name space is large enough that we could have 32K different games eventually". Which through the magic of marketing gets turned into "our game name space is large enough that We could have 32K different games! eventually".
...when the big developers sign up (e.g., sega, square, rockstar, etc.). i'm really not interested in playing some shareware version of dope wars or casinorama, thanks. it's the games, stupid.
32,000 games sure sounds cool. But do I really care? Am I ever going to play 32,000 games?
No. I'm never going to play more than 10 or 20 games on a given system. As my old econ prof would say, "How many games is enough if you don't have the one I want? (How many is too many if you've already got the one I want?)"
There's exactly one game I want to play on a console: Gran Turismo (in its various forms). So I have a PlayStation. I don't care how fast Sega's graphics are, or if the X-Box can do HDTV. I don't care if some new platform has more developers working for it, or if it has eye-tracking and brain-control. If it doesn't run Gran Turismo, I'm not going to buy it.
(Now, if you put a bunch of guys together and made a racing simulator that's better than GT, I might buy your console. But then your racing sim would be your top story, not your console.)
passed test #1 for broadband distro for games. /.s page for more then 15 minutes, and the site is still up.
been on
That's cool. What I want to know is, how do you find maintaining this bleeding-edge level of gamer gear?
I ask because, honestly, the PC gaming rig puzzles me. Even with the basement-level prices you speak of ($400/box), it still strikes me as prohibitively expensive. I suppose it depends on your dedication ot the hobby.
Let me illustrate - I do most of my gaming on a PS2. My personal computer is a Mac, which isn't good for anything but the biggest mainstrain PC games (ala WarCraft).
PS2 = $US 200 (new when it came out)
PS2 game = $US 50
Now, this thing, if its anything like my PS1, will last me for about 3-4 years. I get to sit on a comfy couch, with friends who can also see clearly my large television, with my surround-sound stereo (that I already forked out for), and play 1st-rate video games. It boots very quickly, the graphics are great, most importantly the games are great. The controller is custom-designed just for gaming. It never crashes. I don't apply patches or download things, 99% of the unit's uptime is actively gaming.
Now, before you go off and shut me down, tell me.. you've got:
Gaming PC = $US 400
PC Game = $US 50
now add to that PC Game Controller = $US 35
Large Gaming PC monitor = $250
Good PC Speakers = $100 Windows license to run said Games = $50
How is that better? You're paying a premium for graphics and sound that are only ever going to be marginally better.
I know its not all about economics, but the games, man! You must have as much money as possible to buy games. That is the whole point.
How often do you update your rig? If it's 'fast', as in fast enough to run a cutting-edge PC game all the time, the turnover must be at least one a year, no? (Of course, the PC is more functional than a PS2, but we are talking about games, no?)
I wish you luck, PC Gamer, but I fear your days are numbered. The consoles are custom-designed to eat your lunch.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
i mean the website spells failure, it repeats the, "ull be able to play thousands of games" sooooooo..will they play like my gameboy or my gamecube?
i say nonono! doomed to failure!
Unfortunately for Infinium, the realization of quality over quantity has not yet penetrated the production side of the market.
It's a simple fact: gamers do not want 32k games, we want 4 good ones. We want our Smash Bros., our GTA, our Splinter Cell. We are happy with Halo, and don't you dare steal our Suikoden.
In other words, flaunting information such as 32k games will only placate those who don't want to be sucked in the way of the Gamecube or the early N64. These are the people who (perhaps rightfully) will not jump on the newest console caravan unless they are assured that games will actually be released for the platform.
For the vast majority of the remaining gamers, we care more about the big names, broad scope, and refined entertainment that the occasional great game has to offer. We would rather see a stack of 10 groundbreaking games for the platform than a storage bin of crap.
This isn't really a videogame system: "The game console is an 'ALWAYS ON BROADBAND DEVICE.'"
Their business model is, apparently, to let publishers put their games online for download by "phantom" users. I bet the number 32,000 comes from the total number of games ever released, which could all, in theory, be played on a "windows based" system.
I bet this console is really just a PC with a broadband connection, a nice case, and a wireless controller.
Maybe I just drink too much.
It can play "normal PC games".
In other words, the 32K games "available" are all of the current PC games.
How's that for propoganda!?
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
To announce something with a rendered drawing that even uses the same typeface as the XBOX identity seems very unwise. They are opening themselves up for attack from: a) The sceptical public and media b) Their competitors who will simply copy any viable concepts in their business model. The best option would have been to simply show quotes from industry commentators and developers who could give the console credibility. For example:
"Phantom is mind blowing"
- John Doe, Fiktishus Labs, Inc
etc.
Anyway, one day after the end of March 2003 will tell all!
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
atari
Vaporware = yes
Impossible = no
How can you have a game console that is faster than anything currently out there, broadband capable, and has 32,000 games to choose for not including casino and adult related?
Simple...
It is a PC, in a small profile system, running a 2ghz chip and either ATI or NVIDIA card. The unit, essentially, just plays all 32,000 PC games out there.
Look at it this way, these guys actually COUNTED how many PC Compatible games have been made.
AMEN!
I wonder how much money a company (or the individual with primary access to the bank accounts for said company) can get in endoresements and investments, just by generating some sort of vaporware, looking like they're doing something and then making it vanish in a puff of logic?
Yep. I had the Intellivision, Atari 2600, NES, and SNES (which I still have). No plans to buy another console. I am not a big gamer, but I do still play Quake online occasionally. (created a bootable Quake server too, based on Knoppix. - knoppixquake .)
But I also got into collecting arcade cabinets, and although my collection has dwindled over the years, my collection of ROMs has grown. I just purchased an X-Arcade joystick. Add MAME to your gaming PC, and one of these, and you should have a few thousand more games to keep you interested.
LEGAL NOTE: you should only acquire ROMs for games that you actually own. ;-)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
From the Q&A interview, regarding the company founders: Combining skills from Telco, Data Communications, Digital Rights Management, Software Development and Security...
"Assume the role of Billary Rosen, crusader for the Ministry of Ancient-Business-Model Retention. Crusade against hordes of MaDd HaXXorS using your Congressional Bribery and E-lingo Headspin skills. Litigate your way toward financial stability and monolpolize your enemies into oblivion..."
Seriously... other than "software development", do any of the backers' credientials strike anyone as having ANYHTING to do with making GOOD games?
~~~
"The slave thinks he is released from bondage, only to find a stronger set of chains" - NIN
From their site:
.com bust...
"The mission of Infinium Labs is to become a global entertainment company. To accomplish this, the company will create a high quality gaming console and delivery system that will give consumers options and capabilities that have yet to be seen in today's marketplace."
Do these people have any clue whatsoever? Maybe they were all living on an island and missed the
These people have delusions of grandeur, for sure. Looks like this site is a total rip off to lure investors. Or they simply use it to get laid...
It's a PC with a graphics card that does TV-out.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
I must admit, theoretically, this sounds pretty cool. But this is derived only from their vague claims of bigger-faster-more, and real judgement will have to wait until we can get a look at the real specs of this beast. It would seem (judging from past product failures) that an attempt to "revolutionize" the distribution of software, by a company that has never set foot in the arena of electronic gaming, is doomed from the start. This sort of thing could possibly be pulled off by a Sony or a Microsoft, but what developer in their right mind is going to go out on a limb and develop for a company who has not yet shown any real merit? PC compatability is an enticing feature, but I find it hard to believe. There has always been a divide between console gamers, who pop the disc in the system and play away, and the PC gamers who spend more time fidgeting with their graphics settings and other options. If they believe they have a way to bridge this gap, then alright, let's see it, but again I remain skeptical until then. Perhaps the biggest issue, as always, is going to be third-party software support. Nintendo learned the hard way with their N64 system, and Sony provides the best example of how quality third-party titles will make or break any system. And as it stands, the big boys already have their plates (and wallets) full with PS2, Gamecube and XBox projects. The interview claims they will support a larger library than any system, but unless they have something incredible up their sleeve (a contract with Squaresoft, Konami, Capcom, or any of the "recognized" leaders in development), they will indeed fall into the same trash can as my 3DO, Virtual Boy and Neo Geo. This is of course all speculation, because there is no substance to really analyze yet, but it should be good to give skeptics something to bitch about, and sensationalists to herald as the "next step in gaming." Again, this sounds good, but lemme see it.
...emit hcum oot
1. They still need to sell their hardware through the channel. If they limit themselves to Internet only sales they'll never win..
2. Their system may be more powerful than the others on the market, but it won't be long before Xbox 2, "Gamesphere," and Playstation 3 are out on the market, which I'm sure will trump these guys and everyone else looking to compete.
3. Any of the 'good games' available on the major consoles are at least a gig or two each. Even with a decent broadband connection, I can still run out to my local ebgames and come back with a shiny new game faster than I can download one off the net.. What will the quality of these 32k+ games be like if they are so small in size?
4. I already have an Xbox and a Gamecube in front of my TV.. I don't have room for another one (my girlfriend will kill me!)
www.lonseidman.com
On their "events" page, they list E3 and the Game Developer's Conference... yet they are not registered for either
Don't know about big games that take weeks to finish and give you sore thumbs for a month, but one of the biggest attractions cashing in on braodband are online gaming sites that offer LOTs of simple games that you can download. The killer apps are usually the multiplayer versions.
If these people made some sweeping deals with major online gaming portals to provide service, it's not unbelievable that they could claim thousands of games at launch. They could setup an all-purpose portal specially designed for console owners, so you don't have to go through the pain of registering with all the individual gaming portals.
It already require broadband, so ass a fully-featured web browser with Flash and Java support and you're set. There are literally thousands of online games scattered around hundreds of major gaming portals, many of which are unique games.
Add good 3D graphics and some major titles, and you've got an entertainment center. Sometimes people want complex, sometimes they want it simple, with some good human players. How about both?
Of course, it's probably just a hoax, but who knows these days...
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
According to WHOIS results, infiniumlabs.com was registered on November 19, 2002. I'll let you connect the dots...
I dont know, but is seems to me that verteran entrepeneurs who have a track record in building eCommerce and enterprise applications probably know squat about writing video games that are fun to play. I would think their only hope would be to get some of the big game devs (capcom, blizzard, etc) to write games for the system.
Take for instance the turbo graphics 16 system. One of the reasons why the system failed miserably was the fact that most of their games sucked because the writers of many of the games (at least the launch games) were not video game programmers.
Well just have to wait and see what this is all about. From what they say, it seem like a pretty good deal.
seamless upgrades and patch management
game rentals
cross platform capabilities
etc etc
I'm a bit stumped as to how they can claim that they make a 'fast' console. Quite frankly, I've never used a 'slow' console.
NTSC TVs have a maximum frame rate of 30 FPS (29.7 if you want to get technical). I don't find load times particularly offensive for most consoles now ( the N64 could load anything instantly). Almost every game I've ever played on a console could be played that 30FPS rate ALL THE TIME.
Do they want to turn up the quality of the graphics? It won't be FASTER, but it'll look nicer (although there's only so much you can do at 640x480 interlaced). Sure, you can play pong at 8,000 FPS (even though your TV can only display 30), but do you really WANT to?
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
From these pictures that thing looks like a normal PC. It even has unused PCI(or something) slots inside!!
That this could be a Microsoft (or other console manufacturer) attempt to see if this is something that would gain any public acceptance at all, without devoting significant resources to promoting it?
I mean, none of the big three are willing to step too far away from the current paradigm. The Xbox was a failed attempt at a Palladium-based system, but otherwise it's not significantly different from any other console. (from a paradigm standpoint, not talking specs or quality) If this is simply a front for them to see, through feedback on web-sites and such, it would prove valuable insight into consumer desires and give them potentially a huge leg-up on the next generation system.
Like it has been posted about a thousand times for this article - this company cannot possibly succeed in the home market. They might find business in fringe areas like Hotels, but doubtful elsewhere.
Or I might just be a complete and utter moron.
sedawkgrep
Is that a salami in my pants or am I just happy to be me?
If they rely on broadband itself, it will not generate enough money to keep it afloat. Microsoft is already starting to feel the pinch of this particular issue. Just not enough user base to make a profit.
Could this be amiga based?
Microsoft has struggled to make the XBox a success, and well, we're talking Microsoft here - a mammoth. Heck, the major consoles are all sold at $100+ LOSS.
Perhaps this new guy isn't looking for a large market. But let's say that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all focused 1% of their marketing budget on crushing the newcomer - could they keep up? I doubt it.
Remember that Sega, a long-time powerhouse, bowed out.
Also, you can't ignore the name recognition issue. You can have the best wizzy-chip-it, but if you aren't the name that 15 year-olds discuss in the cafeteria, it's all for not.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
This is a PC, nothing more - hooked to the TV, sporting an ethernet connection, and the kid who designed the site had Flash and Solidworks with the photoworks addon.
Everyone on slashdot seems to think that 32K games is far too many - where are they getting them, quantity over quality, etc. From the interview:
"HomeLAN - From statements on your web site, it appears as if the Phantom will be based on PC tech and that regular PC games will be able to be played on the console..."
"Steve Chilton - Infinium Labs will be announcing hardware configurations within the coming weeks."
So it seems there may be a possibility that this system is running on PC hardware. If so, maybe it will be emulating other systems and consoles. If such is the case, they've got a huge pool of games to draw from, all the way back to the Atari or whatever came before that.
If you look here you'll see this:
"We will be working with developers to develop a licensing model to distribute all of these titles electronically to our customer's.[sic]"
If they are emulating other systems, they obviously have to work out a licensing model with developers to ensure what they're doing is legitimate.
Also on the same page, they mention this:
"There are currently 32,679 retail game titles available and 418 shareware game titles..."
That would imply that they've got 32K commercial games, most likely ones released for computers (not just PC) and consoles. It would also imply that they're not just talking about all the crappy shareware games you can find on tucows.
As far as multiplayer is concerned, most games are already that - just not "online" multiplayer. Mario Brothers is multiplayer for example. If the Phantom is actually going to be emulating games, maybe what they're planning to do is make these types of games (i.e. multiplayer games where all players/controllers are physically at the same console) work over the internet. Back to Mario Bros. - I could be playing Mario on my Phantom, while somone else across the planet is playing Luigi on theirs, and the systems are linked online.
-kidlinux.
They can run Wine. Or WineX. Or DOSEMU.
Otherwise, like you implied, Microsoft is going to charge them up the rear for legal licenses to DOS, Windows, and whatnot. (Considering that they would be Microsoft's competitors, I can see Microsoft making life very difficult. Oh well...more material for the next antitrust case.)
What's this Submit thingy do?
Great....I can't wait to play Deer Avenger 6 or Leisure Suit Larry 7 on a game console that costs more than my first 2 cars.
..that I'm surprised no one else has said it (assuming i didn't miss something). 32000 games, faster than current consoles, broadband access, add them together and you get...
the ultimate emulation box! Broadband to get roms, faster than other consoles because it has to emulate them, and all console games ever made could possibly add up to 32k.
The problem with this, besides the fact it would have to be pretty darn fast to be able to emulate all recent consoles at a reasonable speed, is that their would be some licensing problems. I can't imagine that it could actually get away with this in the US, home of the lawsuit.
OTOH, the only way it could possibly make that claim is if, as others have said, the games are all shitty old games with 5000 variations each (each version of hangman has its own word!), but then I don't know why they'd make it fast.
This platform *MUST* act as an emulator, thus the *need* for it to have the most power of any console on the market.
Why do I say "must"?
32k games equals, roughly, the number of games ever created for all major consoles (and that includes both regional variants, and what MAME calls "clones", which usually make up half to two thirds of the known games for a given platform). Without including such almost-identical versions of the same game, 32k very well might equal the number of games written *ever*, for *any* platform.
No, I did not just pull this number out of the air. As of December 30th, the Cowering ROM ID tools included 33,586 games for "major" console systems (Atari, Nintendo, Sega, Intellivision, Coleco, TG16, NeoGeo). That does not include the Playstation or Xbox line, of course, as the games take up too much room on current hardware, even if a decent emulator existed. But I figure that would add another two to three thousand.
For comparison, the C64/Amiga line, arguably the longest running, most popular gaming platform of all time (though not really a console) only had 26k games. But this never-before-heard-of company has already beat that for their initial launch? Not very likely.
So, as my guess, they plan to push this on the retrogaming community, and possibly open it to "modern" ports (though I don't think they'll focus on that area, at least not unless/until they get a good market share). They can claim such a high number of games without already having licensed them for the same reason Nintendo now carries games written by Sega: They don't need to "steal" the original works, or make obscenely complicated licensing deals (as many people have suggested would hold true of and retrogaming platform). They'll just let the authors republish their original games (without even needing a rewrite, since very likely most of the source code for older consoles no longer exists), for a cut of the action.
On the bright side, I could see this as actually succeeding. Personally, I enjoy retrogaming, and would gladly pay a few bucks (perhaps even the price of a single "modern" game) for a *legal* CD with 50-100 classic games on it ($0.25 per game, with at least a quarter of them "good" games, sounds quite reasonable). I suppose this would have the number of people into classic video games as the biggest limiting factor, though.
Who in there right mind is going to download huge games over the net. Buying games has advantages. If it's going to blow the others away which it would have to do to get market share the games are going to be eye candy and huge. A simple mod of Quake III can be over 60 megs in size. Dream on. I don't think it's going to happen. That's what computers are for.
There's no way they coded 32,000 games, even if they are all on the level of pong, meaning that this is a repackaging of an existing platform. Probably wintel. A micro-ATX board with an AthlonXP and Geforce4 could easily outperform current consoles (XBox uses PIII and Geforce3.) Just make a nice pizza-box case with front-mounted USB ports, voila, a console with thousands of games.
For great justice.
It just occured to me: Could that lead to commercial support and development for those products?
It may seem like a vaporware, but they could potentially build the systems out of mini-ITX boards and fancy cases, as a pre-built Linux box. Marketing such a device as a console system could be a great way to introduce Linux to the youthful masses.
What's this Submit thingy do?
The fact that more devices like this are moving away from physical media to digial media that you download?
With current games you get the dvd, cd, cart, etc, I feel like I do have ownership and control over something while with digital it is locked up on their drive, device, etc, and they have the control over it. They can make it payfor play, force you to redownload it each time, limit its life span, limit what you can do with it, etc, and you don't have that much control over it.
... and we would have beaten Microsoft and Sony too if it hadn't been for those darn kids!!
:)
Sorry just had to say it
The Anti-Blog
The website says that the platform will be "Windows". I can't say for sure what that means, but it seems to me that unless they want a support nightmare for their 32,000 games they will ship with MS Windows.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Ya know, that's an **AWFUL** **LOT** of pictures of the logo and system case without a single screenshot, and the marketing pitch sounds like it was done by the company that makes my cable TV converter box.
This is stupid, and I'm ignoring it until they come clean about this fictional 32K games number - whaddayawannabet the overwhelming majority of those games are crappy CGA graphics shareware games they downloaded from SIMTEL?
There's nothing to see here.... move along.... move along.....
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Anybody else notice that the Phantom shown on the Developer's Benefits pages looked very very familiar?
Plain old Motherboard
Video Card
Sound Card
Ethernet Card
Hard Drive (Top Right)
and... Power Supply
Wow, and I thought the XBox was just a PC...
Madness is only a state of mind
"There are currently 32,679 retail game titles available and 418 shareware game titles and this does not include; adult, casino, sequels and new releases in past 6 months."
With such eye-shattering games as Pacman, Tetris, Tetris 3-D, Pacman 3-D, Poker, 3-D Poker, Solitare, 3-D Solitare, etc... etc....
Ave Molech Setting
Not to nitpick- but you can easily buy 10 games that suck for the PC, too!
Also given the way things are working for the PS2, if you wait about a year and a half, that $50 game is $20. No, not used from ebay, NEW, when rebadged as a "classic" game with the red stripe on top. So for $100 bucks I can buy 5 games. But not just any 5 games, 5 games that I've rented first from blockbuster (various deals going on, so you can rent 3 for $10 or so) and played for a week. I never needed to buy Okage.
I'm sorry that you have so many bad games for your Dreamcast, but did you play test them first?
To top that off, given Sony's current "backwards compatibility" feature (PS2 can play PS1 stuff) you don't lose your investment in your current system. You may be able to harvest your sound and video card*, but I can harvest my entire library (tekken 3 looks even better on the PS2).
*On that note:you can only harvest your audio and video card for so long, the newer games demand better performing hardware- otherwise they look like dreck.
Again, this is getting away from your "New product perspective", however conspicous consumption has ALWAYS been counter to the "early adopters" (who get screwed.)
The idea is that you should be spending money that you don't plan on seeing again- you are indeed throwing it out. Given the uniform nature of consoles and the decent life of the Playstation series, I can amortize the cost of the $250 base unit over 4-5 years...
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
We'll maybe not dupes on Slashdot, but yesterday's bluesnews, VE3d.com, linuxtoday.com...hehe
More than 1.1 billion pigs are killed worldwide each year.
I always wondered what happened to Louie Anderson...
The AC is accusing a named poster of being gutless. :-}
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Looking at their transparent view it all become clear. What they really are doing is shoving a Playstation2, a gamecube, a few gameboy advances, and a square in the box!
I guess they left the xbox out of there because it would make it 2X it's current size. Now they will be the leading console in terms of size. Xbox owners will now have something to point to and ridicule when ever someone jokes about the size of the xbox.
All they would need is one game and 15 things to toggle on and off, and that should get you to about 32,000 different "games".
Actually, that would be about 1307674368000 games, since 15! = 1307674368000. Eight switches would do the trick. 8! = 40320
...Wouldn't happen to be related to a BBS in the Grand Rapids, MI area, would it?
A competitor with the xbox (in terms of size anyways).
So that must mean they're only 89 games short!
sulli
RTFJ.
I think calling him a Spokesdrone is an understatement. Check this answer out:
Except for the term Wi-Fi (and maybe synergy, although that's so 20th century), I think we've hit just about every buzz word in the English language.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
C64 and Amiga are two completely different computers, you can't say that "line" had 26k games in any meaningful sense. That's very much like lumping the Apple 2 and Mac together.
Everyone got the 32k+ games, but what about the company itself?
What is interesting everyone, is that if you look at the company info, they were only formed in October 2002. They plan on launching their platform in November 2003. They haven't even been in business for 4 months! I would NEVER buy a console from a company that puts out such a suspicious press release without actually backing any of their claims with hard evidence, screenshots, etc.
Something fishy is going on here...
Ladies and gentleman, I now give you Wired magazine winner of the 2003 Vaporware award.......
Dammit Jim! we've been here before! -- Bones.
They have 32K sets of randomly generated games, and the ones that survive (let alone actually run) are the ones they will charge for next time around.
1. Generate 32K F'd games
2. Let fools pay to try 'em out
3. Profit!!!
Infuriate left and right
RTM = relaase to market (in case you didn't know.)
Anyway, the RTM will be late March or April 1st...
Based on the fact that there is a claim for a huge existing game base, I am guessing that they are actually a PC platform that will be able to play pre-existing PC games. In addition, if you look at the images on their announcement site, in the transparent front view, you can see what looks to be PCI cards sticking up, as well as a harddrive and processor heatsink profile. The form factor even looks like an ATX. My money is that they are trying remarket a low end PC as a gaming platform.
First Falcon-1 to orbit, then Falcon-9. Then I can die a happy man.
My dog could write this!
This is right out of the marketing dept. The guy didn't even edit it!
Please!
phantom also fantom ( P ) (fntm)n.
1. Something apparently seen, heard, or sensed, but having no physical reality
2. An image that appears only in the mind; an illusion.
-R
As my friend Soong put it...
"Am i the only one that thinks the prototype will be announced on April 1? First of all, that site hasnt been done by a big company, it looks too, well... shit. Secondly, the site hasnt been registered by the company, just some guy called Steve Foster who lives in Longboat Key, Florida. Thirdly, he's used a webtrendslive.com account so he can view traffic, something companies wouldnt bother with, or if they did it would be with inhouse software. And lastly, that concept drawing looks rubbish."
Indeed. With three consoles already out on the market, their initial gaming line-up is going to have to be pretty dang stout in order to compete. That means third parties, from which I have heard nothing about concerning this thing. This thing isn't even vaporware. Try not to get too excited over a crappy CG model.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
"15 things to toggle on and off" is not the same as "15 things that can be set to an integer value from 0 to 9."
15 factorial is a tad large, yes. But that's not what I meant. Since they are on/off, it would be 2^15.
They claim:
I'll buy that that's the total number of games ever released for the PC, plus the number of games emulatable on the PC (MAME etc). Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
They claim to be the fastest console out there, but they won't be out for another 11 months... we could have a PS3 or a XBox2 by then that kicks its ass, so we can tell right there that marketing made up a lot of the information on that page...
And yes, if they promise 32k games my first thought is 32Kb games... most of those games would have to be freeware and shareware computer (or other emulated) games that would be delivered by their online service because they're not worth a CD (unless you get them all on one CD when you buy the console).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
32k games is nothing...
In all seriousness though... I wouldn't be suprised if it was just some mini-pc that can play normal PC games on the market (including all of the old ones... X-COM baby). How else could they have that many games without it being a hack of the same game over and over.
Instead of a mouse and keyboard they could just mod it to us a controller as the primary input. Then they could just set up a service where you could demo or buy the games online. Then all they'd have to do is set up button mapping for each game.
Of course my theory is just as possible as this game actually having 32k+ real games...
I'm serious - why is the be all and all of what a console can do always measured by speed?
And anyway what speed?
In a modern machine be it PS2/XBox/PC the graphics CPU is as important as the main CPU.
So do we measure in clock speed - polygons per second - frame rate - operations per second - memory bandwidth....
At the end of the day the big secret is IT DOESNT MATTER
What MATTERS
a) Do the games play fast enough to be responsive?
b) Are the graphics convincing enough without being obviously limited
All of these are down to how well the game is programmed - who cares how cool the graphics are if it runs at 10 frames per second and takes half a second to respond to a button press - who cares if the graphics don't have quite the same number of polygons in if the game is moving so fast you don't notice.
Before I get flamed by the console-kin I am aware this only holds within certain bounds - if the hardware is lacking badly then even good code-craft will not help - but the PS2/XBox/Dreamcast/PC game experience can all be equally as good with a good game, and equally bad with a sucky game.
What matters more to me would be the range of games - the XBox is great when you play Halo, but what then? - and the convenience of the hardware - PS2s don't have hard drives so are suprisingly shock resistant, PC controllers always feel clumsy when compared to console ones but boy can you get a range (the problem here of course is its easy for a PS2 developer to figure out a really good button arrangement because all the controllers are roughly the same - god help PC developers who generally resort to letting the user map the keyboard)
The 'best' console is relatively easy to spot - its the one doing well in the market - the problem is PC 'consoles' don't show up because they are so flexible. At the end of the day the 'best' console is like a car - whatever is the best package for the person that buys it - otherwise we'd all be driving Ferrais (and I am not having a flame war on cars BTW)
For the record my choice would still be the PS2, its got great games, is well engineered and is just a good package.
As it happens I don't own any consoles, nor a bleeding edge PC (well it is, but for DV editing not polygon count) because most of the time I'm watching DVDs....
PC game company Sierra is planning on having people download games, with the STEAM content delivery system. They released the CounterStrike 1.6 on it. It allows the user to subscribe and PAY for online games. They even state you need a 256K connection to use the service. (Works ok on modem, but the initial download of 100 megs sucks)
Companies want subscription based services, everyone has been stating that for years. Look at MMPGs, SIMS online, etc. You buy the game AND pay a monthly fee.
I personally dont see myself moving to a console for most of my games, using a kb/mouse sucks for FPS shooters. And with MOD Support for games, you basically getting free games. Look at Half-Life, you buy the main game, and you can play CounterStrike for free.
-
http://www.weapon-hacks.com
There have been previous gaming consoles that have superior technical merit and found themselves bested by technically inferior competition (think; Jaguar). There have also been gaming consoles that had a plethora of games to choose from (more than I can enumerate here). The key failing point for all of them is a small core of good games. Regardless of what you think of Sonic, it made Sega. Regardless of what you think of Mario, it made Nintendo.
These guys can have 250,000 carts and it won't be worth anything if they don't have a Sonic or a Mario.
Regardless, any competition in the market is good for gamers.
My
Limekiller
Look's to me like a slick way to get a few investors to shell out some money
While the owner to stick most of the money in his pocket for salery. And a few dollars for a net looking website without any content.
Then when I falls apart, say it was Sony or MS that keep them out of the market.
And with a name like Phatom....
Does not have a Ghost of a chance.
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
the uber-awesome Bitboys GPU!
As a (soon to be) CS grad, after reading through all of the promotional material for the "Phantom" I was amazed to find not one scrap of real technical information.
I'm not even sure that the PR guy they interviewed is even human. I don't think he'd pass a Turing test.
No kinds of hints as to what the underlying architecture might be. Nothing about the graphics / sound hardware. Nothing about the media format. I mean, these are the kinds of things that the hard-core really go for, and all they can say is that "it will please hard-core games." How?
Sorry to say, but my shifty cousin is one of these "entreprenuer" types. "Entrepreneur" usually means "scam artist" in my experience.
A bunch of veteran "entreprenuers" from Florida (that technological mecca)? This whole thing is obviously a scam for VC...
for great justice, this sig has been moved
We'll never see it in stores:
phantom also fantom noun
Something apparently seen, heard, or sensed, but having no physical reality; a ghost or an apparition.
Typical Slashdot stupidity. Let's see, you mean this server running Windows 2000, IIS 5.0, with the .NET extensions which are RELEASED is confusing you??? (check netcraft next time) you know .NET has been out for what, a year now? .NET Windows Server of course isn't out yet, but that really doesn't have much to do with all those production sites running .NET --now smile, eat your cud, and go back to spouting commie socialist linux trash
http://www.mavav.org/
Remember this site? Kids in college had an assignment to come up with a fake gaming site. This Phantom (akin to Vapor-war) is obviously exactly the same thing.
I mean, hopefully I'm not the only one feeling stupid when I read about a crossplatform console. Do they mean I could buy it in US and have it actually working in Europe with different sockets/voltage?
Instead of throwing away money to a doomed console, why not throw money behind a good game development company that writes games for existing (and successful consoles). I'd rather see someone take on Electronic Arts than try to take on 3 console companies.
Its just a PC, as the interviewer alluded to. You can already "rent" PC games over the internet, this just puts it in a nice DRM wrapper.
To each his own, but as a serious gamer I feel obliged to respond to your post. But I'm tired of saying all this like a broken record so I'll try to keep it short.
;)
The whole PC vs console debate is so fucking dated and pedestrian that to make your assertion in any gaming circle will get you laughed out of the room. I don't think you mean badly, but I'll venture to guess that you're just mainly into a certain type of game. Nothing wrong with that, but I do take issue that you're spinning your personal preference in games as objective reason that [god-like-voice]PC's Are Better Gaming Systems Than Consoles[/god-like-voice].
I have the high end PC setup, and I agree that Battlefield 1942 cannot be enjoyed the way it should be on an XBox. Neither can Icewind Dale, Warcraft 3, or Space Quest 4. Now that we have that out of the way. I feel bad for you, the exclusive PC gamer, because you'll never enjoy the likes of Panzer Dragoon Orta, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Metal Gear Solid 2, Soul Calibur, Ikaruga, Megaman 2, or Punch Out. Even if the above were ported/emulated to a PC (I think MGS2 might already be ported), they would be as bad as playing Starcraft on an N64 (*cough*).
So I'll keep my MAME cabinet, all my consoles, and my PC. I count myself lucky because I can afford to do so. If you want to get into console gaming, feel free to ask me (or someone like me) for recommendations. Don't worry, no one will tell your UT clanmates.
With 32K games is must be based on something existing. They didn't say good games, so they must have just uploaded a bunch from somewhere, probably freeware sites. They would want games they don't have to pay for, so old ones whose author is unknown. The Commodore 64 matches this quite nicely.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
If this is indeed a console with the ability to run PC games, how much do you want to bet Microsoft will deny them OEM pricing on Windows or its technology?
slashdot!=valid HTML
The top-tier retailers such as Wal-Mart, Best Buy, CompUSA and Circuit City represent a huge percentage of gaming sales. Wal-Mart alone counts for something like 30% of all games sold in the US.
There have already been many cases of major retailers using this power to block publishers from selling games on the web, unless it is sold strictly through the publisher's own web site.
This reminds me a lot of Valve's streaming distribution plan -- it's a great idea, but the retailers will threaten to not sell the publishers' games if they start selling on the Infinium platform.
Too bad.
I know that Nintendo currently allows third parties to build their own machines on the GameCube platform if they wish (ie, Japan's Panasonic Q). As I recall Sony might also be open to third parties as well. They were in a lot of talks with folks about emulators no to long ago.
These guys could simply be selling a single expensive console that will play stuff that's already on the market. That'd be kind'a cool
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Why did Bit-Boys come to mind when I read this?
Prep. Time : 0:15
Serves: 2
6 oz. can frozen concentrated orange juice
1 cup milk - low fat okay
1 cup water
1/4 cup granulated sugar
1 tsp. vanilla extract
8 ice cubes
-Combine all ingredients, except ice cubes, in blender.
-Blend 1-2 minutes, adding ice cubes one at a time, until smooth.
I kind of miss that amount of customability in games today. They increase the play value. Today, even though the games are much more complex, you can only play it one way, and when you win, there is no point in playing any more.
I like what you have to say. Good points all. Some comments and food for thought:
The key is not to be better than everyone else, (the PS2 is currently the slowest console available), but to be so much better that all of the developers flock to your system and produce must-have games.
Agreed. There is a contrapositive however (I think the syllogism is contrapositive... it's been awhile since I had a formal logic class). Anyhow, design the best system for the must-have games which the developers already flock too. Case in point, Quake, Unreal, et al. As far as I can tell, the market is just waiting for an optimized console box designed to take advantage of the glut of 3D first-person shooters. The developers are already there. The games are already developed. But the console has got to nail that one particular market. If they can actually get the 3D first-person shooter market, they win. Everything else is freebees. (i.e. the 32k+ other titles in existence which run on PCs, and only have a couple points of market share next to the big 3D titles.)
On the other hand, by going with broadband, they have limited themselves to selling a crippled, specialized PC to people who are guaranteed to already have a full-fledged PC.
Agreed. On the other hand, there are a lot of electronic devices which have embedded operating systems and are just crippled, specialized PCs. It's how one makes just about any video game console or 'smart appliance'. Anyhow, how many of those full-fledged PCs are dedicated to gaming? How many are shared by the family? How many have a 17" monitor, when there is a 40" big screen TV in the living room? Would you rather play Quake or Unreal on the 17" monitor and computer speakers, or the family's home theater system? I suspect that this console is being marketed to families which have Mom and Dad cruising the internet (checking the stock market, buying groceries, et al), and the kids want to make the home theater system into the video gaming room.
Now then, back to broadband. Have you considered the LAN market? Especially in context of Quake, Unreal, et al?
It seems to me that all they need to do is make a crippled, specialized PC, that was optimized for Quake and Unreal, and had device drivers for televisions (read: home theater systems) and it would sell like hot cakes. You don't have to worry about building the dedicated gaming machine... someone else has already done it for you. Which is the entire point of this business venture, I suspect.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
32,000+ Games my arse.
Even if you combine every XBOX, PS2, PS1, SNES, NES, and MAME game, you don't get a number that high. This is pure horse shit.
Even if the number was true, you will end up with great games like:
- PacMan
- Mr PacMan
- Ms PacMan
- Mrs PacMan
- PacMan 2
- PacMan 3d
- Tetris
- Tertis Upsidedown
- Neon Tetris
- Asteroids
The list is endless in these cases.
Sega died, what makes this loser company think it can keep on in the console market? There really is not room for more than 2 consoles, but Microsoft will 'make' it work for 3. No way in hell a 4th will survive. Long story short, look for these in the clearance bin with access to a network of service that was shut down several months prior. I guess when that happens, I will be buying one to install linux and then gloat about how much of an uber geek I am. ( just kidding ).
Non nonproprietary hardware which is Windows based? Is this company somehow tied to Microsoft? Could it be one of its new subsidiaries making its next-gen console? Maybe they thought the Xbox had an image problem.
I don't know. If you are talking success the 2600, NES, SNES, GameBoy, PS1, and PS2 are the most successful systems of all time, and most of them are really, really ugly. The 3DO, TG-16, and Sega CD (1st edition) were all very, very pretty, and failed miserably in the market. The PS2 looks like an average a VCR, the financially successful N64 looked like someone threw a cartridge into a blob of clay, and the GameBoy looked like a boring beige box with a green screen when it first came out, especially compared to the vastly cooler Turbo Express, Lynx, Game Gear, and eventually Nomad and Neo Geo Express.
The SNES? Lavender and Beige? I mean, Lavender and Beige? How did this get past test marketing?
For that matter, no system in history has looked as cool relitive to their companions as the Neo Geo did back in the 16 bit era. That company no longer exists, of course.
I'm starting to wonder if very, very ugly systems stick out in consumers minds, thereby increasing sales. It couldn't be just that the name eminates the coolness factor: who didn't laugh the first time they heard the word "Playstation," "Dreamcast," "Ultra 64," "SuperNES," etc.
Perhaps those industry critics are right when they say that people decide on games to buy, then get the console to support them, rather than buying cool consoles to facilitate gaming. In that situation, the "WOW" factor is firmly where it belongs: with the developers. In the mean time, big players will probably continue to hire design professionals who have never touched a console in their lives. Look at the Playstation. Look at the Vaio line of computers. Which looks very, very cool, and which pads Sony's bottom line to the tune of several hundred million dollars per year?
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
Back in 1984, believe it or not... It was called the NABU:
n /t elidon_nabu.html
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/reg/7/millennium/telido
Ouch! They really should have chosen a different title for that page! There is virtually no information on that page at all.
Or is this all just a big joke?
Mmmm.. smoothies.. we still have them here.
Anyone know what the mysterious smoothie powder or julius compound actually is?
..don't panic
Can you mod it so that it can run Linux? :)
Could it be another hoax project that just now is being noticed?
I thought Neo Geo only pulled out of the US market. Did they eventually fold?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
All 32k+ games are actually various levels of BLAZEMONGER!!!!!
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
The gameing industry is already saturated and has no place for a fourth consloe. The mighty Nintendo is even struggling to gain more market share, so how does Infinium Labs propose to pull this thing off. For Great Justice!
quite a name for vaporware
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
That made me "LOL." Kudos, Subject Line Troll.
#19845
Unfortunately, they're 99% emulated from other platforms.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Or does the controller configuration look an awful lot like a Dreamcast controller? Maybe, just MAYBE, this is the set top console that was planned about 2 years back, that utilizes the Dreamcast technology?
From what I recall, the planned set top DC was going to be broadband based, downloading games, more or less a supercharged WebTV.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
From their website. "Infinium Labs is the inventor and manufacturer of the first broadband game console."
The XBox has a broadband adapter built in. I'd say it's the first "broadband" console.
Last year at the Ohio State Fair I happened upon a booth with a man selling a new "game console". He claimed that it played 32,000 some games and that it was all built into a nintendo 64 controller. He was charging 65$ for it. They had it set up so you could try it out. It was of course a scam. What they did was build the games all into a television which they had at the display. Their controllers were empty plastic which were hooked up to complete a circuit so when you pull the cable out it looks like it really was controlling it. I called the guy out seeing as he was simply out to scam young children. Interestingly, even if his "product" had worked it still would have been illegal since the games were mainly altered nintendo roms. I told a policeman on the way out but he didn't really care, so much for my good deed.
Found this link on the Intel web site: http://appzone.intel.com/pcadn/product.asp?product id=01000913002720021209103952
Shows a (or perhaps "the," since we I don't know how many it has) processor being used as the Intel® PXA262 Processor.
15 factorial would be 15 different symbols we could arrange in any order. Or 15 15-position switches, with each value used only once.
Or something.
But I'm sure about the 2^15 part!!
Apparently I've been working with binary for too long. I can't do real math anymore!!
Geez... not even an effort to make real console sofware for it, either.
Probably running Linux and offering up crappy Java applets as games.
If their hapless victims, erm, customers, are lucky, it'll have WindowsXP and be able to run real PC games.
Otherwise,t his thing isn't bringing ANYTHING to the table.
They've got a man who may or may not have the goods. If he hops next door and finds out anything interesting, they'll be the first to give us the lowdown (that it's a PC running emulators for old consoles).
They may call it a console, but we will probably call it a PC probably. :)
:)
What other platform has more than 320k titles?
Think about it
...and I remember playing Section Z until my eyes where sore and my fingers bleeding! When I didn't notice the sun had gone down and come up again and my mother would ask me if I had been up all night! ...Bloody hard game!!
And I remembered it as a clasic......until I tried it on an emulator 2 years ago!
But, memory can be a funny thing. I still have a warm and fuzzy feeling in my heart when I thnik of Section Z. I did beat it too! Wish Capcom could do a new version of that game!
(But I'm probably the only one here wishing for this!?)
I swear to god my mall in Grand Rapids had an Orange Julius, an Alladin's Castle, and a Radio Shack. It was a great time to be a kid.
wow i remember everyone saying the same thing about the playstation so many years ago, how no one could compete with nintendo and sega....
Much more flexibility and immersiveness in games.
1) What do you mean by "flexibility"? A larger variety of games? Not true - I propose that the variety of game genres is roughly equivalent console/PC. I can't play Civ 2 on my PS2, but you can't play DDR on your PC.
2) More immersive? Vague nonsense. Immersiveness is all about personal experience with a game, and is generally totally independant of hardware. Tell me GTA3 isn't "immersive". Tell me Virtua Fighter 4 isn't "immersive".
No console can match the PC for depth of gameplay
Vague nonsense. What do you mean by "depth"? Virtua Fighter has astonishing tactical depth as well as unrivalled twitch gameplay.
and especially not for customization
OK, granted =]
A mod. And now it's the most popular FPS game in the world.
So? How is this relevant?
Consoles still have a looong way to go before they can compete with the PC
In terms of what? Sales? Hoo boy are you in for a shock =]
if you're a more serious gamer, then there's nothing out there that can beat a good PC
How about a custom built machine that never crashes, never needs patches, and has the most polished games with interfaces specifically designed for standardized controllers? You know, like a PS2? =]
grib.
maybe
anyone else notice that the "# of registered users" counter on the Infinium home page is bogus? try hitting reload a couple times.. then wait a minute or two, and reload again. Strange how it jumps around like that? :)
Also there "Corporate address" seems unlikely.. just for fun, I got a map of the address and overlayed it with a satelite photo.. kindof looks like a beach house to me..
overlay in photoshop format jpg version
interesting.. huh?
Phantom? 3k games? Emerging in 2003 as one of the leaders of converging internet and broadband? Working with *some* of the biggest names in the industry? Either this is a joke, or I've been living in Djibouti. Am I the only one that thinks this is a joke?
"I am the Flail of God!" -Genghis Kahn
Tetris level A
Tetris level B
.
.
.
Tetris level ZZZZZZ
I'm sure they know of Indrema's demise... taking this into account... In the interview, the PR guy mentioned "cross compatible" and "thousands of software"... I'm wondering if in addition to the fact that it's just a broadband connected PC, that this console will be able to play NGC, PS2, PS1, and Xbox games... just a wild guess
They are called video arcades. And they are dead. Or at least dying
if i were to dedicate 16 hours a day to trying each game, one hour per game.. divide by 365 days a year, it would take me nearly 5 and a half years just to *sample* all those games, not to mention time-outs to eat, pee (work maybe) or if i find a game i like and spend more than an hour with....
where would i find the time to *buy* any games from them?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... more along the lines of 32k variants of Solitaire. Or other assorted card games -- Poker, Hearts, Spades, 52-Card Pick-up, etc.
hilarious. the next geneartion of video game consoles will achieve a household 'penetration' rate of 70 percent within... and so on. I can really believe this. It sounds more like one of those new controller things that let you play Atari games on your TV.
This is the creation of an intelligent cyber brain that is monitoring the internet and assembling mere fragments of thoughts. It is reaching out to us, trying to speak the language it sees in the Internet.
SKYNET is upon us! Judgement day cometh!
Am I the only one who had the disturbing feeling their PR person would fail a Turing Test in 45 seconds flat?
Why do they even *hire* people to act this way when they could advantageously *code* them?
Just a thought.
http://appzone.intel.com/pcadn/company.asp?vendorI D=853
That is the company's info page at Intel, and if you click on "Phantom" you'll notice it'll be using a Intel® PXA262 Processor which is in a line of ARM based processors at 200 and 300 MHz...
Check out www.timr.tv. Yep, same server as infinium. Now check out all his 'successful' companies, and see how many didn't go down the shitter after he bilked investors. He and his brother have done the pump and dump a few times now. This is just another way for him to part a few idiots of their investment dollars. Guess that house didn't sell on ebay for the Mils eh Timmy? "we're all gonna be fuckin millionaires!" - Tim R, @ DBN
I'm very confident that it will be ne next greatly insane console.
Beside my feelings do someone has sone games to sell for my pippin?
Whatever. There's a damn good reason. Ham is tasty. Pork is yummy. Bacon is real nice.
___________________
Dead pig is good
yep
It'll be just like the speccy:
1.Choose which game you want to play.
2.Wait for it to load(download).
3.Wait some more.
4.Have a cup of tea.
5.Wait some more.
6.Play for 5 minutes; get bored/joypack wobble; goto 1.
It would stand an even better chance of succeeding. Unfortunately it is a hoax.
Tucows already has 30k programs hosted, of which 1/6 is in the games category. most of this is demo/shareware. 30K pc games available is realistic.
If this gamestation is pc-based....
A faster Xbox (ie a PC in a pretty box) with emulator software so it can 'be' every game console or gaming machine out there...
What a lot of people don't remember however was that they came out with a bizarre press release wherein they announced all the stuff they'd done, how successful it had been (*snicker*) and, most amazingly, their plans for the Action Game Master, which would be a portable handheld system (and a gigantic one at that) that would play - get this - NES, SNES, Genesis and "CDROM" games, plus have a TV Tuner adapter card. Of course it never existed in any form other than a 3D Studio render (and a poor one at that). Does any of this sound familiar?
So what we really need to know is this - who is this Infitium (sp?) company? Are they really a legit company or two guys in a basement? Really they sound like Indrema but with less credibility (and remember, Indrema didn't have too much credibility).
Schnapple
Maybe the games they're referring to are PC games already available. Perhaps they intend to be able to play PC games directly through some special operating system tasks (i.e., allocate the memory for this game to install in RAM, play it, and then erase it for the next title) Hence the 32K number would mean all the games currently out on the market would be for this console. Just a thought.
Wouldn't you like to be a pepper, too?
Suprized that no one thought that it was either a troll or funny at least :)...
Wonder if Jon Katz and Junis will play online with their C64s now...
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Not quite right. If you run the exact same game code (using a cross-platform library) on Xbox, Gamecube and PS2, you will see the PS2 version crawling, while the other versions (and a decent PC) run nicely. If you want the PS2 version to run as nice, you will have to do extra work. On the other hand, Sony owns an awful lot of music, as Vice City showed. They probably own one or two decent film franchises too.
I just bought a PS2 for home use and the long load times (which developers should be able to improve on) and slow frame-rate do detract very slightly from some great games. But I bought it because those games are not going to be converted to other platforms. If xbox ever gets a decent game (other than halo) I might be forced to buy one too. GameCube has a few, but they are trickling out these days.
But if you run the same code with a cross platform library its not the same thing at all.
Then you add in the factors such as
- how well has the cross platform library been coded?
- are all the features of the cross platform library done in code, or are they sometimes done by hardware support?
Only if none of the libraries implement any hardware acceleration is it a fair test - otherwise all you have done is written a benchmarking program for how well the cross platform library runs. Not surprisingly the machine with the best number crunching CPU wins.
To my mind one measure of how well code is written is how effecient it is - under your test the platforms with more power are more forgiving of ineffecient code.
You will always get better performance on any one platform by coding specifically for it.
With cross platform libraries even if you code as efficiently as you can to the libraries API, and the library writer does thier best to translate that as efficiently as possible into native code, you will still not be able to exploit every feature of the base hardware, and you have the overhead of the library to account for.
I'd be interested if anyone has actually done a cross platform test, I've not heard of any but then I've not actually looked because personally I'll make the choice by going and play testing the games I like.
In effect your comments prove my point - you bought the PS2 because it was the best deal for the games you want to play for the budget your willing to spend - not because it was the fastest.
Someone get the company e-mail address and send them Chapter 11 paperwork now.
;-)
Never heard about the Paperless Office? Here you go: http://www.uscourts.gov/bankform/
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
Give me something costing substantially less and I will look at it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
This console is bs. There are no pictures of it, there is no such thing as cross-platform gaming less they wish to deal with potentially billions of dollars in terms of copyright lawsuits and development fees, the company has released no specifics, and just because they have a website doesn't mean they have a console.
Someone dreamed it up so he could laugh himself to sleep at night.
It wouldn't work in the long run, anyway. It would fare no better than the Indrema--which at least had the Linux buzz around it--which was canned before it reached launch.
Don't fall for it, dude.
[Maturity consists in the discovery that] there comes a critical moment
where everything is reversed, after which the point becomes to understand
more and more that there is something which cannot be understood.
-- S. Kierkegaard
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...