What the guy meant was that it's not the feature list that counts the most, it's how well the features work. If they add features that also work as well as the existing ones, they do not break the advantage they had.
That position makes the uncharitable assumption that those who speak of features in other DAPs lacking in the iPod are simply bragging about feature counts. Of course it matters how the features work. In my experience, it was not how well the features worked in other DAPs, specifically, that was nay-sayed, but rather the Swiss Army knife nature of those competing DAPs missing the "does one thing very well" credo.
iPods have had recording features for years now. Apple has been adding more functionality to the iPod, but in a subtle and sometimes invisible way. Adding video or a color screen (album artwork, hello) to a portable digital media player is hardly adding the "kitchen sink." A kitchen sink feature is something silly and unrelated, like adding cell phone functionality.
Believe me, I agree. However, in many prior debates with iPod fans over the merit of that DAP vs others, such as the iRiver H-120, I frequently would get this kind of criticism directed at the H-120. They trumpetted the beautiful simplicity of the iPod doing its one thing very well and criticized the many features the H-120 could boast over the iPod as irrelevant and unnecessarily complex. Of course, their argument was a crock , although a bit more ironic as the iPod continues to gain features other DAPs have been offering for years.
Apple throw the kitchen sink in there in a way that makes it invisible. The video functionality if the ipod is completely invisible unless you use it. The basic behavior of the ipod is pretty much unchanged, except it has gotten a little glossier over the years.
That's a pretty self-serving argument. Apple are not particularly innovative in this regard. Other DAPs that provide video and picture viewing also implement these so that they are basically invisible unless used. Not only that, but they also keep their other features, such as FM radio and recording out-of-site unless used.
Maybe the arguments used so often in the past that those extra features add useless complexity and keep their manufacturers from focusing on "doing one thing well" were a good deal overblown.
[...]
Please don't describe my experience as being 'limited.' Yes, I have not been 'properly exposed' to the iPod.
[...]
Definitely don't say my experience is limited, though.
By your very admission your experience is limited. You are commenting on something you haven't even used. Your experience is, indeed, limited.
HD-based DAPs provide an opportunity to put your entire music collection on that player, if you so desire. An individual's particular music collection may be more or less difficult to put on one of these players, but it is hardly anal if folks put their collections on these because they can and want to.
People who think they need to carry around their 'entire music collection' are being pretty anal. Build a 'playlist,' stuff it in your player, and go out and enjoy listening to it. The only people who need to carry their entire music collection with them at all times are the homeless.
You have a highly self-centered view of the world there. Reminds me of those who just don't understand the desire for true gapless playback.
So let me attempt to edumacate you. Folks may like to carry around their entire music collection so they have the option to listen to whatever they are in the mood to listen to at a given point in time. Sure, they could build a playlist, load it, and shuffle away through it during the day. But, personally, what I think I want to listen to in the morning isn't necessarily what I want to listen to later in the day. Having your entire music collection with you gives you options you would otherwise not have. It's about choice.
OK, that is just sad. I've often referred facetiously to "Club iPod", but I didn't really think people were building their lives around an electronic gadget. Sounds like it is less a club and more a religion.
You can add all the gadgetry you want, but it becomes a complex tool. People want their music device simple, easy to navigate and elegant. They don't want the kitchen sink thrown into the tool.
This is a tiresome argument anymore. At one point, it had more credibilitiy, especially when discussing the merits of competitors to the iPod, such as the iRiver H-1xx & H-3xx line of DAPs. But with the iPod gaining first a color screen (so you can view pictures on your music player!) and now video, it is almost laughable hearing about the desire for simplicity. Apple are slowing throwing the kitchen sink into their product. It won't be a surprise at all if they eventually provide FM tuning & recording features in a future iPod.
DAPs are becoming more complex for the average Joe. The challenge, which is where Apple continues to shine, is in continuing to make it easy to navigate and elegant (which you rightfully point out).
I drank the Ogg Vorbis Kool-Aid and ripped hundreds of CDs in that format, fully believing that it was the Format Of The Future (tm). I'm having a lapse of faith, though: you have to jump through hoops to play them in iTunes (like installing barely-supported Quicktime plugins), and forget about listening to them on an iPod or any random piece of consumer hardware.
I don't really understand why you want to play anything through iTunes. Why not just use xmms or Winamp? Either will play ogg vorbis and plenty of other codecs.
Also you should check out Rockbox http://www.rockbox.org/. They are even working on a port of that to the iPod now. This is my answer, coupled with buying CDs. Rockbox supports multiple codecs, so I am not hamstrung by the vendor's proprietary firmware. And it's open source so you can contribute to making it better if you have the desire and skills.
If you're not an iPod owner, you're stuck without the ITMS.
How so? I'm not an iPod owner, don't use ITMS and my H-120 is almost full with music I have bought. As a bonus, that paid for music is in a lossless format.
Give me a break..... as an iPod owner, I don't feel "stuck" with the iTunes Music Store. It makes it sound like the iTMS is a piece of junk that we're "stuck" with. Personally I love the user experience of the iTMS and love all of the little nice touches.
The next sentence in the article: "That's not necessarily a bad thing, but a bit limiting, although that will undoubtedly change - and probably sooner than we all think."
It was a reasonable attempt at an objective review of online music stores. It wasn't saying people will feel ripped off if they use iTunes. It's just that better choices may be out there and, if you are unable to take advantage of them, you are, well, stuck.
12.3% of MUSIC transfers, which is 11.34% of all traffic -- so Ogg makes up 1.4% of all P2P traffic. Which ain't bad at all, but is nowhere near 12.3
Actually it is exactly 12.3% of music transfers, which is what was stated in the parent posting. You didn't think they were saying ogg represented 12.3% of all P2P traffic did you?
However, I think one valid concern that has been raised about it is its tendency for anthropomorphization of the penguins.
I agree. I saw the movie and thought it was great entertainment, but found the anthropomorphism excessive. In fact, at times it raised unanswered questions. For example, we are told how much the penguins love their young chick and would go to great lengths to protect it. Yet there is an entire sequence where young chicks are attacked by a predatory bird and no adult penguin makes any effort at all to protect them. The chicks are left to fend for themselves and some fail to survive the attack.
There's lots of things to quibble about in the movie, but it is still worth seeing. I think its success is due to a combination of folks' desire to see someting different from the usual fare and the glowing reviews it has been getting.
Now it looks like commercial interests might be pushing out the independents.
I see no reason why that has to be true. It should be all about the content anyway. If the independents are making compelling content, they should be ok. If the commercial interests are making compelling content, that is ok too.
Try Robert Fripp. He's a freak and he's training others to be freaks, too. He's like the Neal Peart of guitar: deadly frickin' accurate every single time. Very spooky. He's the only guitarist I could see being able to play with the Philip Glass Ensemble.
A couple of others that would easily qualify: John Williams, Julian Breem, Christopher Parkening.
Hell even the iPod... what truly separates it from other players? Yeah the hardware is good, and it looks slick, but it's the interface. And iTunes.
What truly set it apart from other players is the click wheel. That is the interface people use to the underlying software. The software itself isn't really that much different from what you find on many other players. What is distinctive is the wheel. Doesn't Apple have a patent on that btw?
If you want gapless, one option is http://www.rockbox.org/. They are porting it to the iRiver H1xx-series players and will surely be doing the same for the H3xx-series players too. The progress is good enough that I use their firmware pretty much exclusively now.
The gapless playback is perfect btw, when using ogg vorbis.
The fact that the parent thread has even appeared at +3 Insightful is proof that many Apple fanbois that hang out on Slashdot are a bit short on integrity. Talk about rabid product loyalty. No way other corporations regularly discussed here get this kind of leeway.
How about some honesty, principles, integrity here?
I dunno. I think iPod users are probably smart enough to know they have to recharge their batteries when they drain down. Don't know if I could say the same for GM customers, however...
It may not have much to do with how it drains the battery and more to do with what the retail package sold to the consumer contained. Apple advertised an "iPod", which definately is shown everywhere with the signature white earbuds and HD unit. That package had advertised performance with regard to the battery. The product should live up to the claims of the manufacturer. If you used 3rd-party earbuds, headphones, etc., Apple could say their claims were only for the stock configuration.
Actually he did [say the available grain types has dwindled from hundreds to 15]. Hunter Gathers had a diverse diet of grains and other foods that just weren't domasticateable. Once the domesticated what they could, they stopped eating the others.
I think we are agreeing here . The point is perhaps subtle, but just because they stopped eating the non-suitable grain crops doesn't mean the non-suitable ones became extinct. And even when they did die out, it meant little since they were not a suitable food source for large populations. They simply settled on the ones most able to be domesticated.
Acutally, he said this too [a less diverse food supply leads to increased disease]. He mentioned the potato blight of Ireland.
Hmm, my memory is failing me then. I guess I need to go back and reread that bit.
The general point I was addressing, though, was that the food supply has not especially dwindled or become less diverse. Human activity causing extinction has not impacted this. The best candidates for food (crops and animals) were identified ages ago and humans domesticated them. Those ideal food sources are not extinct and are actually cultivated by us.
Interesting. The point I recall about the hundreds of grain types available to early man was that only some of those types were suited to domestication and early people in regions that offered that variety of grain types had a natural advantage over others because of it. I think he made the point that we have something like 15 basic grain crops in the world and that most of those came from the fertile crescent -- the region with that high variety of candidates. I don't think he was saying the available grain types has dwindled from hundreds to 15.
Also, I don't recall him making the point that a less diverse food supply lead to increased disease. What he did say was that animal born diseases actually ultimately confered an advantage on people sophisticated enough to domesticate and keep large animals for food and labor. The people ultimately became resistant to those diseases and when they entered lands where animals were not yet husbanded, those diseases killed the local inhabitants who had no resistance.
That's a wonderful anecdote, but it means little. I use Windows XP at work and my PC has never crashed. I rarely reboot it either. I run the OS on a laptop and typically just put it in sleep mode when away from work. Also, I've had no issues with viruses, malware, or any other crap. I guess that is a testament to the quality of our system admins.
FWIW, I also run XP at home. Never crashed there either. And, I run Linux on one box at home also. It also is stable as hell.
Now we all are so much better informed, eh?
Slashdot Mirror
That position makes the uncharitable assumption that those who speak of features in other DAPs lacking in the iPod are simply bragging about feature counts. Of course it matters how the features work. In my experience, it was not how well the features worked in other DAPs, specifically, that was nay-sayed, but rather the Swiss Army knife nature of those competing DAPs missing the "does one thing very well" credo.
Believe me, I agree. However, in many prior debates with iPod fans over the merit of that DAP vs others, such as the iRiver H-120, I frequently would get this kind of criticism directed at the H-120. They trumpetted the beautiful simplicity of the iPod doing its one thing very well and criticized the many features the H-120 could boast over the iPod as irrelevant and unnecessarily complex. Of course, their argument was a crock , although a bit more ironic as the iPod continues to gain features other DAPs have been offering for years.
That's a pretty self-serving argument. Apple are not particularly innovative in this regard. Other DAPs that provide video and picture viewing also implement these so that they are basically invisible unless used. Not only that, but they also keep their other features, such as FM radio and recording out-of-site unless used.
Maybe the arguments used so often in the past that those extra features add useless complexity and keep their manufacturers from focusing on "doing one thing well" were a good deal overblown.
By your very admission your experience is limited. You are commenting on something you haven't even used. Your experience is, indeed, limited.
HD-based DAPs provide an opportunity to put your entire music collection on that player, if you so desire. An individual's particular music collection may be more or less difficult to put on one of these players, but it is hardly anal if folks put their collections on these because they can and want to.
OK, that is just sad. I've often referred facetiously to "Club iPod", but I didn't really think people were building their lives around an electronic gadget. Sounds like it is less a club and more a religion.
This is a tiresome argument anymore. At one point, it had more credibilitiy, especially when discussing the merits of competitors to the iPod, such as the iRiver H-1xx & H-3xx line of DAPs. But with the iPod gaining first a color screen (so you can view pictures on your music player!) and now video, it is almost laughable hearing about the desire for simplicity. Apple are slowing throwing the kitchen sink into their product. It won't be a surprise at all if they eventually provide FM tuning & recording features in a future iPod.
DAPs are becoming more complex for the average Joe. The challenge, which is where Apple continues to shine, is in continuing to make it easy to navigate and elegant (which you rightfully point out).
I don't really understand why you want to play anything through iTunes. Why not just use xmms or Winamp? Either will play ogg vorbis and plenty of other codecs.
Also you should check out Rockbox http://www.rockbox.org/. They are even working on a port of that to the iPod now. This is my answer, coupled with buying CDs. Rockbox supports multiple codecs, so I am not hamstrung by the vendor's proprietary firmware. And it's open source so you can contribute to making it better if you have the desire and skills.
How so? I'm not an iPod owner, don't use ITMS and my H-120 is almost full with music I have bought. As a bonus, that paid for music is in a lossless format.
Ah, more accurate on Slashdot to say...
It was a reasonable attempt at an objective review of online music stores. It wasn't saying people will feel ripped off if they use iTunes. It's just that better choices may be out there and, if you are unable to take advantage of them, you are, well, stuck.
That's not the same as saying the share reaches 12.3% of P2P traffic. Further, the body of the posting states clearly:
Moreover, 12.3% of all the music files traded on P2P networks are in Ogg format.
Actually it is exactly 12.3% of music transfers, which is what was stated in the parent posting. You didn't think they were saying ogg represented 12.3% of all P2P traffic did you?
I agree. I saw the movie and thought it was great entertainment, but found the anthropomorphism excessive. In fact, at times it raised unanswered questions. For example, we are told how much the penguins love their young chick and would go to great lengths to protect it. Yet there is an entire sequence where young chicks are attacked by a predatory bird and no adult penguin makes any effort at all to protect them. The chicks are left to fend for themselves and some fail to survive the attack.
There's lots of things to quibble about in the movie, but it is still worth seeing. I think its success is due to a combination of folks' desire to see someting different from the usual fare and the glowing reviews it has been getting.
I see no reason why that has to be true. It should be all about the content anyway. If the independents are making compelling content, they should be ok. If the commercial interests are making compelling content, that is ok too.
Isn't the worst part really that those that considered themselves "in" before now might feel they are just part of the mainstream?
A couple of others that would easily qualify: John Williams, Julian Breem, Christopher Parkening.
What truly set it apart from other players is the click wheel. That is the interface people use to the underlying software. The software itself isn't really that much different from what you find on many other players. What is distinctive is the wheel. Doesn't Apple have a patent on that btw?
MP3
ogg vorbis
FLAC
WAV
WAVPACK
AC3
The gapless playback is perfect btw, when using ogg vorbis.
How about some honesty, principles, integrity here?
I dunno. I think iPod users are probably smart enough to know they have to recharge their batteries when they drain down. Don't know if I could say the same for GM customers, however...
It may not have much to do with how it drains the battery and more to do with what the retail package sold to the consumer contained. Apple advertised an "iPod", which definately is shown everywhere with the signature white earbuds and HD unit. That package had advertised performance with regard to the battery. The product should live up to the claims of the manufacturer. If you used 3rd-party earbuds, headphones, etc., Apple could say their claims were only for the stock configuration.
The general point I was addressing, though, was that the food supply has not especially dwindled or become less diverse. Human activity causing extinction has not impacted this. The best candidates for food (crops and animals) were identified ages ago and humans domesticated them. Those ideal food sources are not extinct and are actually cultivated by us.
Also, I don't recall him making the point that a less diverse food supply lead to increased disease. What he did say was that animal born diseases actually ultimately confered an advantage on people sophisticated enough to domesticate and keep large animals for food and labor. The people ultimately became resistant to those diseases and when they entered lands where animals were not yet husbanded, those diseases killed the local inhabitants who had no resistance.
That's a wonderful anecdote, but it means little. I use Windows XP at work and my PC has never crashed. I rarely reboot it either. I run the OS on a laptop and typically just put it in sleep mode when away from work. Also, I've had no issues with viruses, malware, or any other crap. I guess that is a testament to the quality of our system admins. FWIW, I also run XP at home. Never crashed there either. And, I run Linux on one box at home also. It also is stable as hell. Now we all are so much better informed, eh?