Well, basically the trash stands as a catch-all for "get rid of" and has since the first Mac OS. You can drag toolbar items to the trash, you can drag dock items to the trash, connected servers, if you happen to be dragging and dropping some text and you drag it to the trash can a clipping will be formed inside of it with the text of the drag etc.
That explains what Apple was thinking, but doesn't change the fact that it is a tortured metaphore in this case and results in user confusion -- the parent poster's anectdote being one example.
OK, so why again did Apple say for so long that a one-button mouse was all we needed? Is the 2-button mouse just a nod to demand or have Apple changed their thinking on this?
...with any luck future devices won't be crippled with silly formats no one uses.
Devices are only crippled when they don't include formats that everybody wants. They can include all the formats in the world as long as they include the ubiquitous ones too. If they don't, then they are indeed crippled.
Marketing and envious, keeping-up-with-the-Jones buying has certainly put the iPod where it is today. But the initial and ongoing popularity is because it is simply the best product available.
I don't think you can/have made the case that it is simply the best product available. I think most purchasers have no idea whether that is true. For many people, it is the best product because it best fits their needs. But for many others, it does not best fit their needs.
I would say the initial and ongoing popularity is primarily because of Marketing and envious, keeping-up-with-the-Jones buying. Club iPod is the place to be.
The IL2 Sturmovik series of flight sims are made in Russia. I don't know how many copies have actually sold, but it is widely considered the state-of-the-art in combat flight simming right now. Definately a niche genre, but it used to be occupied by U.S.-based companies and they are all being outclassed by this great game.
As another poster said elsewhere in the discussion, you can go and do a random survey on the street tomorrow if you want, and you'll find 99 out 100 people don't even know what Ogg Vorbis is. For those that care, yeah, it's great that a player would have support, but from a business perspective it is a brain-dead move to pour resources into a feature that the vast majority of the market doesn't care about.
It may or may not be true that it is a waste of business resources to invest in Ogg Vorbis. I say that it is premature to declare that. The market will make the call. But if it is not even offered, especially when at least some customers are asking for it, then it will never have a chance to succeed.
Not supporting MP3 is indeed a dumber move than supporting Ogg Vorbis. But to realize that means you have to realize that support for different formats have different priorities.
I think we can agree on what the priorities are. There's really no debate there, other than to argue that Ogg Vorbis should be on the list.
It's the fanboys who somehow make that format the basis for their music library and all related purchasing decisions. That's too pedantic a market for any sane business to target.
To target exclusively, yes. To attempt to include, no. And it isn't necessarily the act of a fanboy to choose a technology based on its merits.
So I'll give you that support for more formats beats support for fewer formats, but you have to acknowledge that most people don't know or even care about the formats. With pretty much everything sounding good enough at 1MB/minute, other factors in a player make a much, much bigger difference in the average person's purchasing decision. Any company that neglects that will not be producing an iPod killer.
You'll get no argument from me that most people don't know or care about formats other than MP3, especially Ogg Vorbis. And I agree MP3 sounds good enough for most, if not all, buyers. And I haven't argued that lack of Ogg Vorbis support will be the demise of any player. Any player that is to be a true "iPod killer" will have to provide a package that is so compelling that everyday folks will want it over the iPod. That's always been true.
No, you got it backwards. It's clueless manufactures that don't have the skills to produce an actual iPod killer who scramble for any little thing that they can use as a checkbox item in their favor or otherwise attempt to gain geek creds. It's just a plain bad business decision; right up there with Sony not supporting MP3 on their new Walkman. The reality is that once you do anything other than MP3, you have to do it in a way that is so slick that people don't have to think about it. Contrast that with the way people who support Ogg Vorbis are continually trying to shove the format itself down everyone's throats. If they just shut up and pulled an Apple they might actually get some real world traction on the format.
Well, you've provided no evidence to lead me to believe they are just irrationally throwing features in so they can say "See, unlike the iPod, we also do X". In fact, the evidence I have seen suggests they try to provide what their customers ask for. As an example, DAP manufacturers typically offer frequent firmware updates to provide features customer's lobby for.
Regarding your Sony example, it is just not the same thing. Sony sought to limit customer choices by not supporting MP3. Limiting customer choice can be a bad strategy, as Sony is now finding out. Most customers I know like choices. In the case of the present discussion, a DAP that offers choice about codecs is an attractive feature, at least for some customers.
And spare me the whine about Ogg Vorbis supporters trying to shove anything down your throat. It is one thing to sing the praises about a technology you believe is superior as opposed to trying to coerce folks into using it (i.e. "shoving it down our throats"). If anything, what I see is everytime Ogg Vorbis support gets raised as an issue on Slashdot, you can practically count on someone claiming that no one is interested in Ogg Vorbis, that it is a dead end technology, and basically try to make the case that it should be dropped altogether. That sounds a hell of a lot like MP3 supporters shoving their format down other people's throats.
Which leaves me wondering about this, from the article:
Of note, Ogg Vorbis is making some significant progress in the market as a number of manufacturers are turning to the open source codec to draw Ogg fans.
Hmm, maybe some folks DO care about Ogg Vorbis support in their DAPs? Enough, apparently, that manufacturers are starting to notice.
Teenie-boppers looking for portable music player aren't going to be asking for Ogg Vorbis, sure. Just like teenie-boppers aren't going to particularly care that their PC's are running Windows (as opposed to, say, Linux).
Because no one cares/knows what Ogg is except the nerd elite.
True enough, today. But I guess enough of the "nerd elite" (aka "early adoptors") are out there that we now have (from the article):
Of note, Ogg Vorbis is making some significant progress in the market as a number of manufacturers are turning to the open source codec to draw Ogg fans.
You cannot answer the question about whether two same sex people can get married until you first define what marriage is. The same is true for whether three same sex people can get married. You must first define the concept, "marriage". With that in hand, you can then answer the earlier questions.
So, define marriage and provide justification for that definition. It would be best if you did this without reference to religion, because the chances of getting most people to agree to religion-based premises are small.
Practicing my skills gained from recent reading on formulation of good arguments, I think your argument can be restated like this:
Since religious-based arguments for or against legal doctrines are invalid
--->since the separation of church and state is an established legal concept in this country
and since only religious-based arguments have been used to defend banning same-sex marriage
and since I can think of no other reason why two same sex people should not be permitted to legally marry
and since it is unlikely that a consitutionally valid reason can be given for prohibiting gay marriage
Therefore,
There should not be a constitutional prohibition against two same sex people marrying.
My analysis:
First premise is debateable -- needs more defense. Some legal doctrines are based on concepts of morality, which might, themselves, be based on religious considerations.
Second premise fails -- it is unsupported and reasonable people might not accept it as it is. It needs support.
Third premise fails -- it is a rebuttal argument that states, in essence, you can think of no rebuttal. Not very compelling.
Fourth premise fails -- it is, in part, a restatement of the second premise (I can think of no reason). Also, attempts to ammend the Constitution are attempts to change what is Constitutional, by definition.
So, the best premises we have are the first two and they need more support before they could be deemed acceptable.
The conclusion is unwarranted based on your argument.
Complaints about the software on the iRiver will vary depending on what features you consider important. I have had my iH-120 for about 4 months now and am very happy with it. But then I don't care for using shuffle, so I wouldn't know about issues related to that.
Bottom line: understand the features of the product you are wanting to buy and which are most important to you. Do not buy based on a promise of future features. There are a large variety of users of these portable devices and the odds that any single device will satisfy the usage patterns of all (or even most) users is pretty low. That includes the iPod.
You are unhappy and angry at iRiver and will not be buying their products anymore. I am very satisfied with their products and will most likely buy from them again. C'est la vie!
It's extrememly configurable. You don't really have to move your head much to move the view a lot. You can also control the accelration rate of the movement over the range of movement. So, as your head turns more it causes the view to move at a faster rate. I haven't had any eyestrain problems at all and it is pretty natural to use.
I'd say they are very much getting it. They are using brand recognition in one area to expand in another.
Well of course they are -- that's no major revelation here. What they "don't get" is that they are implicitly casting a vote of no confidence for their own news service to win on its own merits. Giving their brand a leg up when it otherwise doesn't deserve it isn't fostering innovation -- it is just using wedge tactics with one product to grab market share for another. This is something they have been criticized for before and this pattern of behavior is another of those thngs they "don't get."
What would be really cool is an iPod port because iPod is awesome and it has a screen, a processor, and some kind of scroll wheel with clickable buttons.
id may release a demo. You may have to wait a little while to get it though. They clearly see there is ample demand for Doom III retail and have made releasing it the first priority. If you must see a demo before a demo is released, just visit any local electonics store around Aug. 5, and I am sure you will see it running on PCs and X boxes in store. You probably can even play it there.
As far as sliding standards go, id has earned a reputation that many people now trust. The emphasis is on earned. I don't see the pent up demand for this game as evidence of a lessening of standards by consumers.
The answer is fear of failure. If the music industry would try to put out more concept albums rather than 3 minute nothing songs, then album sales would turn around.
I agree with what you say, but don't lay the blame entirely with the music executives. I can't tell you how many times I have seen online discussions about portable mp3 players and gapless playback and the many people who cannot fathom why that should ever be needed. I've seen people declare that the album is dead -- they want to pick and choose their songs. Fair enough, but if the music industry attempts to cater to this, then I think demand had something to say about it.
If I walked down the hall where I work (made up almost entirely of accountants with plenty of disposable income) I bet not one of them knows Ogg but all of them knows MP3.
Most of them probably aren't running Linux either.
Slashdot Mirror
OK, so why again did Apple say for so long that a one-button mouse was all we needed? Is the 2-button mouse just a nod to demand or have Apple changed their thinking on this?
That is funny. How much extra did it cost you?
Law: Software supported and promoted on web sites that can't handle the ./-effect will surely die.
Ah, good. They will include ogg support.
Devices are only crippled when they don't include formats that everybody wants. They can include all the formats in the world as long as they include the ubiquitous ones too. If they don't, then they are indeed crippled.
I don't think you can/have made the case that it is simply the best product available. I think most purchasers have no idea whether that is true. For many people, it is the best product because it best fits their needs. But for many others, it does not best fit their needs.
I would say the initial and ongoing popularity is primarily because of Marketing and envious, keeping-up-with-the-Jones buying. Club iPod is the place to be.
The IL2 Sturmovik series of flight sims are made in Russia. I don't know how many copies have actually sold, but it is widely considered the state-of-the-art in combat flight simming right now. Definately a niche genre, but it used to be occupied by U.S.-based companies and they are all being outclassed by this great game.
It may or may not be true that it is a waste of business resources to invest in Ogg Vorbis. I say that it is premature to declare that. The market will make the call. But if it is not even offered, especially when at least some customers are asking for it, then it will never have a chance to succeed.
Not supporting MP3 is indeed a dumber move than supporting Ogg Vorbis. But to realize that means you have to realize that support for different formats have different priorities.
I think we can agree on what the priorities are. There's really no debate there, other than to argue that Ogg Vorbis should be on the list.
It's the fanboys who somehow make that format the basis for their music library and all related purchasing decisions. That's too pedantic a market for any sane business to target.
To target exclusively, yes. To attempt to include, no. And it isn't necessarily the act of a fanboy to choose a technology based on its merits.
So I'll give you that support for more formats beats support for fewer formats, but you have to acknowledge that most people don't know or even care about the formats. With pretty much everything sounding good enough at 1MB/minute, other factors in a player make a much, much bigger difference in the average person's purchasing decision. Any company that neglects that will not be producing an iPod killer.
You'll get no argument from me that most people don't know or care about formats other than MP3, especially Ogg Vorbis. And I agree MP3 sounds good enough for most, if not all, buyers. And I haven't argued that lack of Ogg Vorbis support will be the demise of any player. Any player that is to be a true "iPod killer" will have to provide a package that is so compelling that everyday folks will want it over the iPod. That's always been true.
Brilliant insight, AC. You actually thought I didn't know that? And so? How does it change my point? That's right, it doesn't.
Well, you've provided no evidence to lead me to believe they are just irrationally throwing features in so they can say "See, unlike the iPod, we also do X". In fact, the evidence I have seen suggests they try to provide what their customers ask for. As an example, DAP manufacturers typically offer frequent firmware updates to provide features customer's lobby for.
Regarding your Sony example, it is just not the same thing. Sony sought to limit customer choices by not supporting MP3. Limiting customer choice can be a bad strategy, as Sony is now finding out. Most customers I know like choices. In the case of the present discussion, a DAP that offers choice about codecs is an attractive feature, at least for some customers.
And spare me the whine about Ogg Vorbis supporters trying to shove anything down your throat. It is one thing to sing the praises about a technology you believe is superior as opposed to trying to coerce folks into using it (i.e. "shoving it down our throats"). If anything, what I see is everytime Ogg Vorbis support gets raised as an issue on Slashdot, you can practically count on someone claiming that no one is interested in Ogg Vorbis, that it is a dead end technology, and basically try to make the case that it should be dropped altogether. That sounds a hell of a lot like MP3 supporters shoving their format down other people's throats.
Which leaves me wondering about this, from the article:
Of note, Ogg Vorbis is making some significant progress in the market as a number of manufacturers are turning to the open source codec to draw Ogg fans.
Hmm, maybe some folks DO care about Ogg Vorbis support in their DAPs? Enough, apparently, that manufacturers are starting to notice.
Teenie-boppers looking for portable music player aren't going to be asking for Ogg Vorbis, sure. Just like teenie-boppers aren't going to particularly care that their PC's are running Windows (as opposed to, say, Linux).
True enough, today. But I guess enough of the "nerd elite" (aka "early adoptors") are out there that we now have (from the article):
Of note, Ogg Vorbis is making some significant progress in the market as a number of manufacturers are turning to the open source codec to draw Ogg fans.
So, define marriage and provide justification for that definition. It would be best if you did this without reference to religion, because the chances of getting most people to agree to religion-based premises are small.
Since religious-based arguments for or against legal doctrines are invalid
--->since the separation of church and state is an established legal concept in this country
and since only religious-based arguments have been used to defend banning same-sex marriage
and since I can think of no other reason why two same sex people should not be permitted to legally marry
and since it is unlikely that a consitutionally valid reason can be given for prohibiting gay marriage
Therefore,
There should not be a constitutional prohibition against two same sex people marrying.
My analysis:
First premise is debateable -- needs more defense. Some legal doctrines are based on concepts of morality, which might, themselves, be based on religious considerations.
Second premise fails -- it is unsupported and reasonable people might not accept it as it is. It needs support.
Third premise fails -- it is a rebuttal argument that states, in essence, you can think of no rebuttal. Not very compelling.
Fourth premise fails -- it is, in part, a restatement of the second premise (I can think of no reason). Also, attempts to ammend the Constitution are attempts to change what is Constitutional, by definition.
So, the best premises we have are the first two and they need more support before they could be deemed acceptable.
The conclusion is unwarranted based on your argument.
Bottom line: understand the features of the product you are wanting to buy and which are most important to you. Do not buy based on a promise of future features. There are a large variety of users of these portable devices and the odds that any single device will satisfy the usage patterns of all (or even most) users is pretty low. That includes the iPod. You are unhappy and angry at iRiver and will not be buying their products anymore. I am very satisfied with their products and will most likely buy from them again. C'est la vie!
Yeah, but how does it compare to your toaster? Wha...?
It's extrememly configurable. You don't really have to move your head much to move the view a lot. You can also control the accelration rate of the movement over the range of movement. So, as your head turns more it causes the view to move at a faster rate. I haven't had any eyestrain problems at all and it is pretty natural to use.
Plus it just looks so damn cool!
As far as sliding standards go, id has earned a reputation that many people now trust. The emphasis is on earned. I don't see the pent up demand for this game as evidence of a lessening of standards by consumers.