You mean: When a single obvious MS fanboy comes along, and thinks he can top all of us other users who think that the OpenGL documentation is great, the developers should change it all, so it looks more like the DirectX documentation? I think we had this argument already, a couple of years ago. I think it was even with you and me.
when Microsoft hears from a developer that their documentation sucks, they'll work on it and improve it.
[proof needed]. Because if that is the case, then I have to go ride the flying pig tour to hell, to see if it froze over.;)
Get me something real, because somehow I don’t take your “word” for it...
Where you definitely never have to lock yourself in on Windows. If you present me with a way to have a single software project, written in Haskell, using DirectX, that can be compiled for Windows, Linux, Mac, Symbian, iPhone, Android, Wii, DS, etc, then I might look into it.
Question is: Why exactly do we need the love of those companies? What’s in this for us? I mean we aren’t some needy losers who would do anything just to be “accepted” into a group that we don’t like anyway. This is not school. We’re grow ups with out own world.
1) DirectX has a comprehensive, well-documented references and documentation.
Uuum, the blue book, the red book and the orange book?? I mean they offer a nice to read book that is a specification and guide/tutorial in one. Can’t get better than that.
2) DirectX provides a lot more than just 3D drawing - sounds, networking, fonts, input processing, and it used to have an API for 2D graphics before (relevant because the story is about why DirectX gained marketshare)
SDL, Mesa, OpenAL, some open source lib, and you’re done. What’s the problem? Do you beg for lock-in?
3) The DirectX libraries had more support in whatever coding language you wanted to use. You mean like C AND C++? And now slow.NET that is not useful for engine development anyway, and locks you in even more? Yeah. I can do foreign function interfaces and Java development with OpenGL too. in fact I just write an OpenGL app for mobile phones in Haskell right now. Try that with DirectX.
4) Later it was possible to easily develop XBOX 360 games with DirectX and the tools were made good and easy to pick up. You may say it's irrelevant, that MS is using another market to improve their position, but it is not irrelevant.
You left out the basis of your argument. Why is it not relevant, that MS deliberatly created more lock in? Because you fell for it, and now backwards-rationalize it?;)
5) DirectX was easy to pick up, and everyone supported it. If it's easy to pick up for beginners, they'll learn it and continue using it later as a professional.
On what planet would that be? I learned them both. And I found DirectX to be confusing and messy, while OpenGL had some clear underlying principles and structures. Nowadays I work professionally with OpenGL. Go figure... So obviously I an only call bullshit on that.
Conclusion: Don’t get me wrong: If you think you are happy, so be it. But when MS starts the ass-rape after you are locked in tight, or when they go down with the rise of mobile devices, or when some other shit happens, then don’t come crying to me. It’s exactly the same thing as those DRM servers that got shut down. Your music was gone, and you deserved it.
The reason was, that OpenGL did lack modern features. Which was true back then.
BUT. OpenGL now has caught up. And it has one huge advantage: Extreme cross-platform capabilities. You can even use OpenGL ES (a light version) on all modern mobile phones. Runs on Linux and Mac without hassle. And on consoles. Mobile ones too.
With GLSL, there’s no excuse anymore.
I mean, come on! That all has got to be an advantage! I see no reason to succumb to lock-in and learn the tricks of a whole new API, just for a (now) imaginary advantage.
I agree. Hell, even PostgreSQL’s documentation is literally fun to read. It’s clean, it’s complete, it’s concise. Other projects should learn from them.
Some people don't do it for the money. You can't buy them. Ever.
For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence. Big money does not help that goal. So no money in the world can change my goal. And nothing can stop me from pursuing it. Because that would be the end of existence. If I don't want to chew bubble gum, not even a million will change that. (One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table. Just to chew one strip of gum. I said no, and I'm proud of it. It drove him and his tiny mind crazy that evening.:) If money can trump your principles, you've got no principles but are a lying bastard. (Yes I know that this goes completely against the “official” US philosophy. But we don’ have to agree, have we?:)
We’ll just send “Oberst Sturmhart Eisenkeil“ (Colonel Stormhard Ironwedge) against him. Now THAT’S a name!
I lost the source, but here is the quote again, that I saved:
During my service in the German army I came across an Oberst Sturmhard Eisenkeil — which literally means as much as “Colonel Stormhard Ironwedge”. What’s so special about him is his first name... it’s not just your average “Max”, but it’s as if his parents were trying to make up a name that sounds as militaristic as possible. I know that if should I ever write a WWII story the main protagonists will be called Oberst Sturmhard Eisenkeil and Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster... I also know an Oberfeldwebel Killermannn in person, who would make a good henchman for the evil Oberst.
NO. You just have to state that it is invalid! It’s THEIR job to prove it is valid.
You still live in a country where you’re innocent until proven guilty! Even if you yourself seem to be the biggest enemy of that by supporting their view that this isn’t the case.:/
Bullshit! A contract can never surpass law and basic rights. Even if it states in big red letters and you signed it in blood, swearing to the $holyBook!
There is nothing else to say, that that every single of those statements is false and it’s the other way around.
Or else you could just hang a letter on the front door, stating that everyone who enters the building, agrees to be slowly and painfully killed. And then do just that to them when they enter. See... still illegal.
How about you stop valuing your own sense of reality below that of others, just to be loved or for the pat on the back... You are right because you say so. Period. Because you know better. That is the right way of thinking. Or do you think you are delusional with your own values? I don’t think so.
Uuum, even with a court order, they are still no cops, and are therefore illegally holding that order. So I have to assume they illegally stole it from a cop. Which is exactly what I will tell the cops on the phone: Some criminals illegally dressing up like cops, having an either fake or stolen court order, attacking citizens and businesses, just like terrorists. I will tell it in a way that will have to cops come with shotguns and shoot half of those “auditors” before even starting to ask any questions.
then again, you could simply do... eix-sync && emerge world;)
But I don’t even know what “auditors” are, and what they think they are doing, wanting to get into my building without a warrant. Because in that case they either walk away, or the cops will drag them away.
The real question is: Why do you buy into some asshole’s obvious bullshit?
If I state that you now have to become my gagged gimp because you used more than two 9s in your user name, would you do it. What if I would be from a government agency? Would that suddenly make you buy into my reality? I could add, that you ending your comment in “...” is an admission of guilt.
The thing is: Assholes come up with all kinds of shit, if you let them. Reality is what the leading one defines as reality. And for that others have to follow him in the first place. Why do you follow?
Let me make another reality for you: They are wrong. They are guilty. They are terrorizing you. Therefore they are terrorists. Therefore they need to be punished. Hard. Right now. Go. Do it! NOW!;)
What is Germany doing in there? We might be worse than before all non-Nazi-friendly scientists fled to the USA, but we’re still top-notch here.
Besides: What’s all the us against them mentality about? In science there no place for this. That’s the nice thing: Scientists do not care for stupid politics. Iranians, US, Chinese, Russians, Israeli, etc, all work together, and don’t even think about if some power-greedy suit/gunswinger is thinking they “shouldn’t”.
Considering how often I read on Slashdot about some Chinese team doing good science, I must agree.
You can say what you want, but they’re doing some impressive science down there. Which also is sad, because imagine them having a good government. They (the government) would not have to act like dicks. They could lead out of sheer respect for their work. Imagine a Chinese/US team effort to get to mars. I guess there’s nothing I hate more, than some asshole slowing down the progress of the whole world, for his own short-lived personal gain.
Oh well, could be worse. They could try to promote creationism.;)
The best science and the most intellectually stimulating jobs are in the US.
That’s the thing. Soon they won’t. Because the Chinese government is working hard, to get up to US level, and the US government is working hard, to get down to China”s level.
And now, it’s found out, that it’s usually long-term exposure when the allergy started in later years. Which is curable by simply stopping to expose yourself to it, and do that for a long time. No, in case of a nut allergy, that’s NOT the nuts. Ever. It’s something different which in not healthy, but somehow similar to nuts. Artificial nut flavor in your hear shampoo? Or ever just heated animal proteins, like with asthma. (I personally saw this vanish.)
PC has become the biggest enemy of natural selection.
I am fatter than a normal person. Which means it’s SUPPOSED to be harder for me!! I grew up in a poor family. So it’s harder for me, because my parents fucked up. You don’t see me complaining about it. I see things as they are, take what I get, and make the best out of it. Same thing with everything else. We all got our share of problems to deal with.
Balancing that out, is the act that makes it unfair. Because it punishes everyone who payed attention to not eating crap that causes allergies, had parents working hard to raise a good child and select a partner with good genes, and do no stupid shit.
That’s why if someone begs for some money, I ask him how it comes that he needs to do this. From person to person. If he fucked up, or his parents did, then I walk away. If some ass fucked with him despite him having done nothing wrong, I give him some money (and I’m never cheap on this). Usually they are so startled that anyone actually cares for their story, that they are pretty honest. That’s what I consider fair, and balancing wrong things out.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, because DirectX HAS bindings for it.
Now it’s my turn, sucker! I raise you...
MALBOLGE! ;)
You mean: When a single obvious MS fanboy comes along, and thinks he can top all of us other users who think that the OpenGL documentation is great, the developers should change it all, so it looks more like the DirectX documentation?
I think we had this argument already, a couple of years ago. I think it was even with you and me.
when Microsoft hears from a developer that their documentation sucks, they'll work on it and improve it.
[proof needed]. Because if that is the case, then I have to go ride the flying pig tour to hell, to see if it froze over. ;)
Get me something real, because somehow I don’t take your “word” for it...
And how is that better than OpenGL?
Where you definitely never have to lock yourself in on Windows. If you present me with a way to have a single software project, written in Haskell, using DirectX, that can be compiled for Windows, Linux, Mac, Symbian, iPhone, Android, Wii, DS, etc, then I might look into it.
Question is: Why exactly do we need the love of those companies? What’s in this for us? I mean we aren’t some needy losers who would do anything just to be “accepted” into a group that we don’t like anyway. This is not school. We’re grow ups with out own world.
1) DirectX has a comprehensive, well-documented references and documentation.
Uuum, the blue book, the red book and the orange book?? I mean they offer a nice to read book that is a specification and guide/tutorial in one. Can’t get better than that.
2) DirectX provides a lot more than just 3D drawing - sounds, networking, fonts, input processing, and it used to have an API for 2D graphics before (relevant because the story is about why DirectX gained marketshare)
SDL, Mesa, OpenAL, some open source lib, and you’re done. What’s the problem? Do you beg for lock-in?
3) The DirectX libraries had more support in whatever coding language you wanted to use. You mean like C AND C++? .NET that is not useful for engine development anyway, and locks you in even more? Yeah.
And now slow
I can do foreign function interfaces and Java development with OpenGL too. in fact I just write an OpenGL app for mobile phones in Haskell right now. Try that with DirectX.
4) Later it was possible to easily develop XBOX 360 games with DirectX and the tools were made good and easy to pick up. You may say it's irrelevant, that MS is using another market to improve their position, but it is not irrelevant.
You left out the basis of your argument. Why is it not relevant, that MS deliberatly created more lock in? Because you fell for it, and now backwards-rationalize it? ;)
5) DirectX was easy to pick up, and everyone supported it. If it's easy to pick up for beginners, they'll learn it and continue using it later as a professional.
On what planet would that be? I learned them both. And I found DirectX to be confusing and messy, while OpenGL had some clear underlying principles and structures. Nowadays I work professionally with OpenGL. Go figure... So obviously I an only call bullshit on that.
Conclusion:
Don’t get me wrong: If you think you are happy, so be it.
But when MS starts the ass-rape after you are locked in tight, or when they go down with the rise of mobile devices, or when some other shit happens, then don’t come crying to me.
It’s exactly the same thing as those DRM servers that got shut down. Your music was gone, and you deserved it.
The reason was, that OpenGL did lack modern features. Which was true back then.
BUT. OpenGL now has caught up. And it has one huge advantage: Extreme cross-platform capabilities.
You can even use OpenGL ES (a light version) on all modern mobile phones.
Runs on Linux and Mac without hassle. And on consoles. Mobile ones too.
With GLSL, there’s no excuse anymore.
I mean, come on! That all has got to be an advantage!
I see no reason to succumb to lock-in and learn the tricks of a whole new API, just for a (now) imaginary advantage.
I agree. Hell, even PostgreSQL’s documentation is literally fun to read. It’s clean, it’s complete, it’s concise. Other projects should learn from them.
DUH!
Some people don't do it for the money. You can't buy them. Ever.
For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence. Big money does not help that goal. So no money in the world can change my goal. And nothing can stop me from pursuing it. Because that would be the end of existence. If I don't want to chew bubble gum, not even a million will change that. (One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table. Just to chew one strip of gum. I said no, and I'm proud of it. It drove him and his tiny mind crazy that evening. :) :)
If money can trump your principles, you've got no principles but are a lying bastard. (Yes I know that this goes completely against the “official” US philosophy. But we don’ have to agree, have we?
So you’re suggesting a Ponzi scheme? How creative of you...
We’ll just send “Oberst Sturmhart Eisenkeil“ (Colonel Stormhard Ironwedge) against him. Now THAT’S a name!
I lost the source, but here is the quote again, that I saved:
During my service in the German army I came across an Oberst Sturmhard Eisenkeil — which literally means as much as “Colonel Stormhard Ironwedge”. What’s so special about him is his first name... it’s not just your average “Max”, but it’s as if his parents were trying to make up a name that sounds as militaristic as possible. I know that if should I ever write a WWII story the main protagonists will be called Oberst Sturmhard Eisenkeil and Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster... I also know an Oberfeldwebel Killermannn in person, who would make a good henchman for the evil Oberst.
NO. You just have to state that it is invalid! It’s THEIR job to prove it is valid.
You still live in a country where you’re innocent until proven guilty! Even if you yourself seem to be the biggest enemy of that by supporting their view that this isn’t the case. :/
Bullshit! A contract can never surpass law and basic rights. Even if it states in big red letters and you signed it in blood, swearing to the $holyBook!
There is nothing else to say, that that every single of those statements is false and it’s the other way around.
Or else you could just hang a letter on the front door, stating that everyone who enters the building, agrees to be slowly and painfully killed. And then do just that to them when they enter.
See... still illegal.
How about you stop valuing your own sense of reality below that of others, just to be loved or for the pat on the back...
You are right because you say so. Period. Because you know better. That is the right way of thinking. Or do you think you are delusional with your own values? I don’t think so.
Uuum, even with a court order, they are still no cops, and are therefore illegally holding that order. So I have to assume they illegally stole it from a cop. Which is exactly what I will tell the cops on the phone: Some criminals illegally dressing up like cops, having an either fake or stolen court order, attacking citizens and businesses, just like terrorists.
I will tell it in a way that will have to cops come with shotguns and shoot half of those “auditors” before even starting to ask any questions.
then again, you could simply do... ;)
eix-sync && emerge world
But I don’t even know what “auditors” are, and what they think they are doing, wanting to get into my building without a warrant. Because in that case they either walk away, or the cops will drag them away.
The real question is: Why do you buy into some asshole’s obvious bullshit?
If I state that you now have to become my gagged gimp because you used more than two 9s in your user name, would you do it.
What if I would be from a government agency? Would that suddenly make you buy into my reality?
I could add, that you ending your comment in “...” is an admission of guilt.
The thing is: Assholes come up with all kinds of shit, if you let them. Reality is what the leading one defines as reality. And for that others have to follow him in the first place. Why do you follow?
Let me make another reality for you: They are wrong. They are guilty. They are terrorizing you. Therefore they are terrorists. Therefore they need to be punished. Hard. Right now. Go. Do it! NOW! ;)
google doesn't have any experience fielding public customer service
And so do all the mobile carriers. ;)
The illusion that they are better? ^^
The logic that says that this helps ourselves to grow!
It’s called teamwork.
Considering that China already owns the plaza and everything around it, I’d say what’s the point? ^^
Damn debt... or rather: Damn bankholes deliberately devaluing the dollar for their own personal gain.
What is Germany doing in there? We might be worse than before all non-Nazi-friendly scientists fled to the USA, but we’re still top-notch here.
Besides: What’s all the us against them mentality about? In science there no place for this. That’s the nice thing: Scientists do not care for stupid politics. Iranians, US, Chinese, Russians, Israeli, etc, all work together, and don’t even think about if some power-greedy suit/gunswinger is thinking they “shouldn’t”.
Considering how often I read on Slashdot about some Chinese team doing good science, I must agree.
You can say what you want, but they’re doing some impressive science down there. Which also is sad, because imagine them having a good government. They (the government) would not have to act like dicks. They could lead out of sheer respect for their work. Imagine a Chinese/US team effort to get to mars.
I guess there’s nothing I hate more, than some asshole slowing down the progress of the whole world, for his own short-lived personal gain.
Oh well, could be worse. They could try to promote creationism. ;)
The best science and the most intellectually stimulating jobs are in the US.
That’s the thing. Soon they won’t. Because the Chinese government is working hard, to get up to US level, and the US government is working hard, to get down to China”s level.
If you listen closely, you hear it say: Kiiiiilll meeeeee....
It’s always impressive, how finely tuned, balanced and efficient nature is...
And now, it’s found out, that it’s usually long-term exposure when the allergy started in later years.
Which is curable by simply stopping to expose yourself to it, and do that for a long time.
No, in case of a nut allergy, that’s NOT the nuts. Ever. It’s something different which in not healthy, but somehow similar to nuts. Artificial nut flavor in your hear shampoo? Or ever just heated animal proteins, like with asthma. (I personally saw this vanish.)
PC has become the biggest enemy of natural selection.
I am fatter than a normal person. Which means it’s SUPPOSED to be harder for me!!
I grew up in a poor family. So it’s harder for me, because my parents fucked up. You don’t see me complaining about it.
I see things as they are, take what I get, and make the best out of it.
Same thing with everything else. We all got our share of problems to deal with.
Balancing that out, is the act that makes it unfair. Because it punishes everyone who payed attention to not eating crap that causes allergies, had parents working hard to raise a good child and select a partner with good genes, and do no stupid shit.
That’s why if someone begs for some money, I ask him how it comes that he needs to do this. From person to person.
If he fucked up, or his parents did, then I walk away.
If some ass fucked with him despite him having done nothing wrong, I give him some money (and I’m never cheap on this).
Usually they are so startled that anyone actually cares for their story, that they are pretty honest.
That’s what I consider fair, and balancing wrong things out.