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Air Canada Ordered To Provide Nut-Free Zone
JamJam writes "Air Canada has been told to create a special 'buffer zone' on flights for people who are allergic to nuts. The Canadian Transportation Agency has ruled that passengers who have nut allergies should be considered disabled and accommodated by the airline. Air Canada has a month to come up with an appropriate section of seats where passengers with nut allergies would be seated. The ruling involved a complaint from Sophia Huyer, who has a severe nut allergy and travels frequently. Ms. Huyer once spent 40 minutes in the washroom during a flight while snacks were being served."
Should there also be a shrimp free zone for those who are allergic to shrimps, and a strawberry free zone for those who are alergic to strawberries, and maybe a sweater free zone for those who are allergic to sweaters?
I'm allergic to idiots. Is there anywhere in Canada I will be able to travel?
I'm allergic to noisy babies and children who kick my seat-back. Where's my zone?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
And I want all nut-jobs banned from life. Good luck with that.
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/01/08/0321228/Air-Canada-Ordered-To-Provide-Nut-Free-Zone#what about catering to those who are allergic to mushrooms like myself...
and then theres those people who are allergic to cat and dog hair?
can of worms imo
Like almost all US airlines have done. Of course Ms. Huyer will then complain that everyone will be getting snacks but her... (not to make like of nut allergies, which really can be deadly. But a "nut free zone" in an enclosed space with recirculated air? Just switch to pretzels and be done with it.)
Solve this problem first
The Canadian Transportation Agency has ruled that passengers who have nut allergies should be considered disabled and accommodated by the airline
If they are ruling that they are disabled, should they also allow them to park in the blue spaces?
I thought people alergic to nuts have to eat them to have an allergic reaction not look at others eating them. When did those rules get changed?
Apple has "Mac vs PC", Microsoft has "Laptop Hunters", Linux has recession
My first impression was hell yes, nuts like Sophia Huyer won't be allowed inside that zone where I will be sitting, and then I realized it was the other way around.
This post may or may not contain cancer causing materials.
If you can get past Customs, the rest of the country will be just fine for you...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
With the ADA in the U.S., one only has to make *reasonable* accomodations. You obviously don't have a motion-free zone who get terrible motion sickness. I'd say this request is unreasonable.
CBC story about Air Canada having to provide nut-free zones on account of allergies...
...and another CBC story about Air Canada allowing pets in their cabins starting in July. Err...
How about the wings?
Can I please have a special government-enforced seating zone that has an extra 6" of leg room, at no extra charge?
I have been on a flight where they've announced no peanuts were being distributed or sold because of someone with allergies on the fllight. Of course they may have just run out of peanuts and it sounded better than "we forgot to stock up".
Jolyon. Oh yes, my .sig is appropriate today
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
Many people with severe nut allergies can suffer serious allergic reactions on contact with nuts, even things that come in contact with nuts. Your skin is quite happy to absorb many things that get on it.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
Hand out HazMat suits to the nut dude.
Unfortunately it's worse than TFA makes it out to be. This will also ban other passengers from bringing their own nut-containing goodies onto the flights.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/money/2010/01/08/12388196-sun.html
This is as silly as using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Really nutty. Seriously.
BTW, I'm allergic to delayed flights. Can they provide me delayed-flights-free service?
I hope that the 'Nut Fee' Zone will also pack in 4 people where they normally packed in 2 or 3.
This is getting stupid, I am alergic to most animals and people are still allowed to bring dogs and cats on. All they tell me to do is be sure I have an epipen with me just in case?!
On second thougth I hope that they pack 5 in the same area and let them sweat out the trip.
- my $.02? - you can't have it...it's all I have!!
Can anybody provide any real evidence that nut allergies are triggered by the "smell" of nuts? I don't think so -- as far as I know they have to be aerosolized in a cooking spray or finely crushed and thrown into the air as "nut dust". I'm betting this woman is probably just a hypochondriac who thinks she's being affected by smelling nuts when she's not. This article http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=2417934 mentions that her claim is backed up a doctor's note saying that she has a reaction when in the general vicinity of nuts, but other than that there's no real evidence for this.
Air Canada and other organizations should first order complete medical studies on people like this to get the facts before taking action. Clearly, the public needs more evidence because special treatment for allergy sufferers and public bans of nuts are getting out of hand.
A quick Google search reveals the beginnings of a Britannica article which also indicates that banning nuts is a bad idea since nut allergy deaths are not unacceptably higher annually than deaths from lightning strikes and bee stings, and because banning creates a climate of oversensitivity: http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/35883327/Peanut-hysteria--or-is-it
How about a cologne-free zone? Loud talking people-free zone?
I know it is not PC to say, but this is a sad joke. People should get over themselves and stop demanding the world change around them. It is as if "only-child syndrome" is now the standard. I am starting to find myself allergic to work, bills, and anything that inconveniences me in the slightest. The plane does not bother me as I do not fly; I am allergic to paying for tickets but the airlines refuse to accommodate me. And I do not need to park in the blue spaces, as I am allergic to parking in spaces; I need to just get out of my car where I want. Now if the police would stop discriminating against me by towing my car when I leave it on the sidewalk! They will all regret it when I file a lawsuit and they learn I am allergic to verdicts against me!
Member of American Sarcasm Society - Motto: "Like we need your help!"
Flying with Air Canada it helps if you are nuts.
Those nut allergic people should be forced to watch the movie Gattaca whilst flying and thank god that fiction hasn't become reality (yet)
According to this pets are now allowed on Air Canada, although many people with allergies object and can no longer fly because of this. But nuts (which don't get carried in the air as much as pet dander) are not allowed?
Am I the only one wondering WTF?
when i was growing up, no one had this problem, but now it seems that it is almost commonplace. is this a symptom of something we've done lately (to our food source perhaps), or a symptom of me just not getting exposed to news sources as a kid?
as far as I know they have to be aerosolized in a cooking spray or finely crushed and thrown into the air as "nut dust".
Well then, as far as you know, somone allergic to nuts has a legitimate fear be being trapped in closed space with recirculating air along with the usual ratio of mouth-breathers.
I wonder if some of the reactions that people with allergies have when exposure is very low are trained responses. Like Pavlov's dog, ring the bell and start salivating, smell peanut butter and start choking.
My only basis for this is personal experience with chemo-therapy. After just a few rounds of treatments, just DRIVING to the hospital was enough to start me throwing up. It was bizzare and extremely frustrating to be sitting in the chair getting hooked up to a saline only IV and having to hurl. No matter how hard I tried to reason with myself, I was getting sick from the drugs that were no where near my body, much less in them and taking affect yet.
My thought is that people who have had a bad experience with a real allergic reaction have very quickly and effectively trained their brain to induce the reaction response at even the smell of the allergen.
Anyone else have similar experiences / theories about the validity of 'nut-free' zones?
ps - just to be clear, I'm not suggesting the reaction isn't happening, but just curious if it real or trained. If trained, maybe people can be trained out of it and then live less intrusive lives. BTW, 15+ years later I'm basically fine - hospitals don't bother me much, however, there is still a certain ladies deo / perfume that makes me feel queesy.
I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
Hey look, it's a comic strip that's related: Sheldon Comic Strip: Daily Webcomic by Dave Kellett
Even if the dust is unlikely to affect people, it'd still be pretty scary to be sitting right next to somebody eating them, or near a bored little kid who's throwing them around, if you were one of those people who could die if it touches them.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I can. My oldest son is extremely allergic to peanuts, almonds, and most other kinds of nuts. He has to carry an epi-pen with him wherever he goes. One day, my son's class went on a field trip to a farm. He started looking sick, and his face started to swell. Fortunately, the teacher saw it, gave him some Benadryl and he was fine for the rest of the afternoon. Turns out that the farm was near some peanut-growing farms and it was right in the midst of harvest season, so the peanut dust was in the air.
We've also had instances where my son was near some kids at school who were having a peanut butter sandwich for lunch, and my son started getting sick. Again, Benedryl was administered, and the school made sure that if someone had peanut butter in their lunches, they had to sit at least one or two seats away. Worst case, my son had to sit at a different table (although some classmates did come and sit by him).
It's not fun, dealing with allergies like this, but taking sensible precautions helps avoid a true life-or-death problem.
He opens up his briefcase, pulls out a Playboy, drops his pants, and proceeds to have a wank.
The woman is horrified.
When the man is finished, he pulls up his pants, closes the briefcase, and then turns to the woman and asks:
"Do you mind if I eat nuts?"
Baba-boom-ching!
Thank you, tip the veal, try the waitress . . . etc.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I'm really worried - if Slashdot, for example, were forced to offer a nut-free zone, this place would be a ghost town!
And I just realized that could be taken two ways: The way I meant it, and the way most of you are probably going to interpret it...
#DeleteChrome
and I say everybody deserves more room than is found on most airlines these days
I'm serious. I've been on flights where fellow passengers apparently subscribed to the "perfume instead of a shower" school.
And it was disgusting, and made my flight a hell, with clogged sinuses and the concomitant ear congestion that results in excruciating pain until the congestion clears (oh, it only takes a few hours). Benadryl and Claritin and any other anti-allergy drug don't help.
How about the people who are allergic to deodorants ?
Should airlines create "deodorant free zones" for them as well?
Will this "disability" madness ever end?
Why don't they just call it "women only" and be done with it.
Hurr durr.
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
Most certainly.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
After the failed Christmas day bomb plot, I'd say it's safer to just pan nuts.
The last thing we need is a terrorist's nuts exploding on the plane.
"We live in a global world" - Harvey Pitt, former Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman
sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
...new wave of terrorists who threaten to puke peanuts all over the no-nut zone.
Table-ized A.I.
If nuts are outlawed, terrorists will blow their nuts off!
I'm here all week....
There goes Canada's mile high club....
Do you mean the food or the complaining people? I choose the food - so they switch to a chex mix like snack with crackers.. Then the gluten intolerant speak up. Before long no airline will serve food on any flight. Some say this has already happened.
I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, but that's not evidence. The problem with parents who tell these tales about how peanuts are like kryptonite to their kids or they're allergic to X in food is also he reason why we shouldn't base public policy on anecdotal evidence (there's another comment below about someone "who knows a family with a son who...")--so please don't take this as if I'm targeting you specifically or questioning he veracity of what you're relating; I'm just pointing that this is isn't how we gather evidence on public health issues and the stories told by parents shouldn't form the basis of public health policies.
The thing is, in the scenarios you're describing, you have a son who is quite allergic to nuts, I'm going to guess because he had something with peanuts actually in it at some point, or came into contact with the oil, and after that happened a couple of times with an allergic reaction, you figured out he was allergic. And people at the school and around him basically know this, too.
So now, when your son doesn't feel well, on a field trip, or at school, everyone looks around for the nuts. And lo and behold, you're next to a peanut farm. Or a kid at the table is having a PB&J. Or you find out his playmate had peanut butter pancakes that morning, or a snack made in a facility processing pine nuts. Or whatever. And you have your "explanation."
Except that you don't actually know how frequently your son is exposed to "peanut dust" or "contaminated surfaces" or whatever, and doesn't have a reaction. Maybe he's allergic to something else, or maybe not. Or maybe it goes down exactly as you suspect. The problem is that in the absence of a controlled study, we just can't tell. And while it makes sense (maybe) for you to just be on the safe side with regard to nuts, it doesn't make sense to make rules, regulations and laws with significant costs for others without that peer-reviewed, study-based justification.
Anyway, I hope people take this as the call for more information and for better study of the public health implications of allergies that it is, and not as an attack on a dad and his son, which it certainly isn't intended to be.
demi
So Glenn Beck will have to take the train?
Table-ized A.I.
I flew on Hawaiian Airlines early last year, and there was a person with a bad nut allergy on-board. The flight attendants asked everyone to avoid opening any bags of nuts during the flight, as even the particles in the could have made him/her sick. Everyone seemed ok with it, and I didn't mind, since eating a few nuts seemed less important than someone not getting violently sick during a 5 hour flight.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Pretty much.
During one horrible year when I had to return to Canada from the U.S., my daughter could not take a lunch to school, unless it was basically fruit or salad: no nuts, eggs, lunch meats (nitrite). peanut butter, and I forget what else.
In Liberty, Rene
I am not sure about that. Allergies to nuts have a nasty habit of being exceptionally strong and easily fatal. One of the students at my school died from an allergic shock after eating vanilla ice-cream that had been kept in the same storage space as ice-cream with nuts. If I remember correctly they ran some tests on the ice-cream and it was not even measurable, but still enough to kill her.
I don't see the need for serving nuts on enclosed places like air planes. Just like I don't see the need for letting people smoke there. Why not do our best to all get to the destination without killing each other instead, shall we? It's not like nuts are a critical part of the in-flight food anyway.
This'll probably be modded down, but why is this on slashdot? I understand that many of us have allergies, but is this really nerd news? Are nerds more likely to have allergies (I have a feeling the answer is yes), and if so, why?
but I consider it carry-on.
At some point, society has to leave some people behind so that it can actually do something. You can't have everyone's lives getting dragged down by every little crippled thing about everyone.
This is my sig.
the plural of anecdote is not "data"
They have to paint a single parking spot blue?
I am allergic to parachute silk!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The airline setting up their insano zone and not serving nuts there should be no great challenge....
How do you stop me or any other passenger from buying a bag of nuts in the terminal and bringing them on board? Are they going to strip search everyone in nut zone to make sure they have no nuts?
I have a gluten/wheat sensitivity. I cope well enough with it and eat a balanced diet. But when I look at a lot of foods since I have to choose carefully, its unimaginable how much food has nuts in it. I'm surprised people are able to cope with it.
If there is any sort of allergy that can cause anaphylatic shock, I'd say its a good idea to keep it off planes. Although, some of the plane food I can't eat and so I usually take a gluten free energy bar. And I'm sure quite a few of those have peanuts in them.
But how can they be sure the kid didn't actually eat some nuts? It's urban legends like this that spread unnecessary fear? /K
So read the literature. Just because a study hasn't been discussed on FOX News doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
It took 30 seconds to find this on scholar.google.com. I'm certain a more in-depth search would find dozens of similar studies. Note that this study tracked both objective and subjective indicators of reaction.
First of all, not all nerds are nerds. The term nerd is part that of the guy who read popular mechanics instead of playboy under the covers and part the unathletic kid with brazes. Often they can be the same person but there is no rule. You got nerd marines. The astronauts, nerds all.
But the common perception MIGHT be due to people with an allergie perhaps leaning towards quieter pursuits then fully healthy person. if every time you run you need to suck on a allergy spray, you don't run so much.
Do nerds have allergies or do allergies make nerds? I am a nerd and got no allergies except possibly to some pollen because once in my youth I broke out like crazy but it never repeated.
I think it belongs on slashdot because it is part of how the world is just going insane.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In all airlines you can select your meal according to beliefs/fantasies ( religion, vegetarian ) but not according to real facts with potential fatal consequences. My daughter is allergic to nuts, sesame and peanuts : It's next to impossible to feed her on a plane since you never have access to the list of ingredients and you never know if it has been in contact with allergens.
What I'd really like is another option in the meal selection list : vegetarian, kosher and allergen free.
I can't go above 3,000 feet. I demand that all airlines pressurize to 3,000 feet to accommodate me.
Peanuts, are soft and slightly crumbly, and are usually served in bags. Opening the bag usually involves a quick, decisive rip, which imparts some kinetic energy to the contents. The peanuts remain in the bag, but the smallest crumbs, the peanut dust, if you will, may not. Similarly, the act of chewing the peanut, particularly, but not exclusively by ill mannered individuals expels a small amount of particulate into the air.
It's a particularly obnoxious allergy to have, given the commonality of the legume, but anaphylaxis is not pleasant. (I'm allergic to the Brail "nut", which is not so ubiquitous as the peanut.) Essentially, things start to swell up, including airways, which makes it difficult to actually breathe. A bit like a nascent cough that never really resolves itself into a full blown expectoration.
The lawyers get richer, everyone else gets screwed.
a) if it's a minor allergy, just man up and deal with it.
b) if it's a medium range reaction, pop your benadryl or whatever, take some precautions and deal with it.
c) if it's a nasty reaction, pop your hardcore drugs or whatever, take extra precautions and deal with it.
d) if it's a deadly reaction, have your eppy pen ready, fly first class, wear a air-filtering mask, and rubber gloves, take extra precautions and deal with it. Sure, people will look at you funny, but hey..you'll live and not inconvenience everyone around you.
I like peanuts. If you happen to be sitting next to me on a plane and mention you have a nasty allergy to them I would probably be polite and not open my bag. However, expecting an airline to bend over backwards, just so your eyes and face don't get a little puffy is ridiculous.
Listening to screaming brats running around long term gives me a major headache. However, I'm pretty sure if I suggested you straightjacket your kid, muzzle him and give him a a heavy sedative you'd probably sue me, so I just deal with it.
I will let my nuts sway, any which way the wind blows.
They can have my nuts when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!
First they came for the peanuts. Then they came for the walnuts. Next it was the almonds.Soon, there weren't any nuts left to speak out.
That's all I got...
There was a recent story about electrical (not hybrid) cars being so quiet, that blind people don't hear them. I only learned from reactions to that story that guide dogs don't actually see traffic. Always thought they did, but they just see the curb and then the blind person has to decide wether it is safe to cross. A bit hard with a silent car you cannot see...
So... how far do we go? Do we actually have to make silent cars make noise for a small percentage of people? It can't be easy being blind, I notice that in Holland around Utrecht there seem to be a lot recently traveling by public transport (not all fully blind of course) and you can see the problems. Snow? All of them gone, if the bus stops away from the curb, they can't readily see the entrance. If the stop is not used for some reason, the orange bag over the sign won't be seen. They can't check time tables, can't see announcements about altered routes.
So, do we even bother with them? Or tell them to go back to their institutions? Lock them up?
Like many others, i find the peanut allergy a bit silly. Where do you draw the line? You mean that if this person smells someone's peanut breath, they die? How do they life? You can ban peanuts from aircraft but not from the rest of the world. What about taxi's? The street? What if I bring peanuts on the plane myself? What if I work in peanut factory?
And what if someone is allergic to this woman? Say her scent? Will she comply with that? Wanna bet she drives her car despite people having asthma?
But there is a real danger in arguing what the parent argues. It is only a small distance from that and the gas chambers for those who are a drag on society. Already babies are euthanized because they are considered unfit to survive. Or in less advanced countries (such as the US), left to starve on their own because that is what god wants...
No, it is all to easy to say there is a line, but drawing that line sets a dangerous precedent. Once such a line has been drawn, beyond which point you are considered not worth "it" to society, that line can be moved. And it may never happen that this line reaches you, but that is a terrible way to life.
Personally, I think it can be solved rather simple, let her wear an isolation suit on the flight. Problem solved and you can use it in more situations then just aircraft. And the rest of the passengers just have to deal with it, just as you accept wet dog smell from a guide dog. Because we are human beings and we are better human beings if we don't live by survival of the fittest. Remember that the greatest mind alive today is probably also the least fit person.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
When we booked our flight with Virgin Blue (in Australia) we had to list if there were any allergies that we might've had... we ticked that our daughter was allergic to peanuts...
When we went to board the plane, they told us that they were just finishing vacuuming all the seats because of the allergy, and that NO nuts would be served on the flight...
Very nice service...
I realize this is Slashdot, dammit but peanuts are not nuts; they are legumes. However, the tendency amongst us is to lump these legumes in with actual nuts, gonads and any unrelated item that can produce a snicker. Please continue.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Clearly, the public needs more evidence because special treatment for allergy sufferers and public bans of nuts are getting out of hand.
Yeah, I can see how the whole "Sometimes don't eat nuts for a bit" thing is ruining your life. I mean, who can live like that?
sic transit gloria mundi
Once upon a time, airlines permitted smoking in the back of the plane. You also had a choice of a hot beef or chicken entree, even in coach. Peanuts were everywhere. Cellphones were still a couple decades away. Many airlines were making money, even with flights that were not overbooked. I was a smoker back then. A standby passenger was put in the smoking section but immediately made a stink about it and had the flight declared "non-smoking". They had been seated next to me. Throughout the 90 minute flight, I quietly farted at every opportunity. ;)
Are you aware that the disabled can in fact have children that they care for?
This sounds like a bad lesbian porno title
Sounds more to me like any Air Canada flight can now be considered a Nut RICH Zone!
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
??
...but I'm not an asshat and I understand that being uncomfortable isn't possibly fatal.
This is typical with people who don't know anyone that needs special assistance to have a normal life. Handicap access regulations are stupid and wasteful until your kid brother ends up in a wheelchair.
1) Ditto
2) AFAIK, being allergic to peanut oil it self is very very rare. Typically it's the proteins that you are allergic to. Peanut oil manufacturers go to a lot of lengths to make sure their oil is pure oil and has no chunks of peanut in it.
Wow, I can't remember the last american carrier that I flew on that served any kind of nut in any class.. one day it was
nuts for everyone and seemingly the next day it was pretzels or chips only....
I would generally agree with the gist of your post, except you seem to imply that parent's son might not be allergic after all... except somehow they got an epi-pen, and the teachers knew to administer benadryl (I dont recall the teachers in my day using epi-pens or handing out benadryl....). That seems to indicate that the kid really is allergic.
Youre right on the money with policy not being decided by anecdote, but you need to understand that with some allergies (nuts, pet dander), some people are so sensitive-- aka hypersensitive-- that it can quite literally be fatal to even inhale the dust. Whether or not parent's son has an allergy (which, based on the story, and their having an epi-pen, seems to be true), this is a real issue.
(I'm allergic to the Brail "nut", which is not so ubiquitous as the peanut.)
It's easier to identify if you're blind, too.
near a bored little kid who's throwing them around,
Sometimes you just gotta smack a kid.
... just serve fucking pretzel twists, that's what the U.S. carriers have been doing.
Still salty, still thirst inducing.
And fuck your gluten allergy.
"There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
Then eat walnuts and peanuts in peace.
I know people with actual nut allergies and they can deal with life... this is beyond stupid. The person with the allergy need to take their own precautions and not expect the world to protect them from their weakness. She can live in a bubble ball and breath through an oxygen tank if that's what she needs. Purifying the world around where she walks is asinine.
I have no sympathy for this.
There have been many times in the past 10 years that I wished I lived in Canada.
In the last couple of weeks:
(Almost) No carry-on luggage on Canadian flights.
Now this.
Canada is no longer at or near the top of my "Countries I sometimes wish I lived in." list.
I agree with several others. The airlines can't have "zones" to accommodate every passenger. If they did- they probably would have established a "no screaming kids" zone. I'm sorry the individual involved, and many others, have such bad allergies- but forcing airlines and other passengers to make unreasonable accommodations for them isn't acceptable. Of course, an easier solution would be to do what most US airlines to and stop passing out peanuts to passengers to begin with.
With no politicians, religious people, marketers, PR people, media moguls, TV news watchers (any channel), two-party-system voters, apple fans, hipsters, and a pony too please.
Wait, why don’t we just give each one his own protective retard bubble (not transparent!).
Or we don’t and let nature do it’s job, weeding those out who ate so much crap and smelled such nice cleaning agents, body lotions, clothing colors and makeups, that they now can’t survive in a normal environment.
Or we stop telling people bullshit like “allergies can’t be healed”, when in fact we’re fuckin’ retards who think they are gods... when it is clearly proven that like you can get an allergy, you can be healed from it.
A friend of mine did exactly that. Stopped eating heated proteins, and some other strongly processed and purified trash... and tadaaa... the next summer, it was gone! Yeah right... it can never be healed. The doctor insisted on that.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I'd disagree with you as to the symptoms of my son not being considered evidence (e.g. the swelling, difficulty of breath he got during these episodes). Your point, however, is correct - too many parents of kids who have these allergies get overly paranoid, and want to throw out the peanuts altogether just because. (Also, didn't feel targeted).
Yes, he did come into contact with some peanut based foods, and the extreme sickness he got sent us to the doctors where we did get the testing done, and education for us to identify how to recognize the symptoms, and how to deal with it (e.g Benedryl/anti-histamine first, then if they start throwing up and can't keep Benedryl down or face is swelling a lot/breathing issues then apply the Epi-Pen and get to hospital).
Actually, we don't. If he has the specific symptoms of anaphylaxic shock (e.g. swelling of face, breathing, and throwing up) we treat the symptoms as we were taught. However, if he gets sick and isn't showing these symptoms, we do the normal care we would for any other normal kid (when H1N1 went through my house, we didn't go searching for the peanut bogeyman).
Excellent point - you're correct, we really don't know. However, in my son's case, we did have him tested (and unfortunately for him he tested out at the top of the sensitivity scale). We do take proper precautions (e.g. have some space between kids if one is having a PBJ sandwich) to make sure that he doesn't get unnecessarily exposed, but we don't worry too much about it now. However, the last thing I want to do is to ban all peanuts from everywhere - it's something that my son is aware of, and knows how to live with.
he doesn't wash his hands... ewwwwwwwww.....
If I recall correctly, they haven't served peanuts on Air Canada flights for at least 4 or 5 years. I wonder if they could actually stop me from eating peanuts that I brought myself.
You know I hear the developed these things called face masks that block dust and other allergens. This is like a paraplegic that doesn't want to buy a wheelchair saying walmart should have employees carry him around the store.
Hee hee. I was, of course speaking of the seed of Bertholletia excelsa, or Brazil Nut.
I'm severely allergic to hazelnuts and brazilnuts. And I fly. When served the little packages that may contain traces of these nuts, I politely decline or pass them to my neighbor. This person who hid in the toilet, afraid for her life, perhaps is a bit over the top in her fear. Perhaps she never goes to coffee shops for fear of inhaling nut vapors, and avoids restaurants entirely.
I find this level of fear ridiculous. Its not only ridiculous, but a bit frightening to see national governments forcing regulations in support of absurd paranoia. Maybe we'll get to fly in our own little bubble seats in the future!
Fortunately for me, my son doesn't react to the peanut oil, only the peanut proteins. We went to a Chick-Filet restaurant one day for lunch, and after my son was done with his meal we discovered that they cook everything in peanut oil. No effects from that, but we were rather concerned for a while (unnecessarily, thankfully)
... would be to ban peanuts on all flights.
IMO, this is a good idea. I can fly, eat my peanuts and feel content.
You, with the peanut allergy. The next peanut-free seat opening is in two weeks. Shall Will you wait? Or are you going to suck it up and not gag over the in-flight snacks?
Have gnu, will travel.
I have to wonder if we're not make more of an issue over this than it is. People with medical issues suffer more than those of us without; and while my medical issue mad not be something that people can accommodate for (severe headaches unaffected by noise/light/etc) I don't see why this woman should suffer when her accommodation is REASONABLE;even if she didn't have a real illness it isn't as if allot of people are seriously inconvenienced. A "nut-free zone" is just another ways of saying that the airline stewardesses has to inform the passengers a few rows around the person(s) in question of the area being a nut-free zone and that if this is a problem for anybody to let them know. It isn't like accommodations can't be made for anybody who absolutely must have nuts! If this person wasn't severely allergic to nuts why on earth would she be in the restroom for 40 minuets? She might be nuts-but then we should just be thankful that we're not that unfortante and accommodate accordingly.
I want to know where that nut free zone is so I can sit there and munch out on my Snickers bars.
When someone objects I'll just look confused and speak Swahili.
They should agree to it only if those nut allergic freaks agree to sterilize themselves so they can't have kids because their line of genetic abnormalities is REALLY annoying, expensive, and disruptive to the rest of us. Now latex people get a break cuz that's a man made but people dying from nuts? They should all just die off like they would without science and civilization instead of bitching and calling it a handicapp.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
You do know that peanuts aren't actually nuts, right?
Legumes.
There is no allergy. Just an excuse to sell you more expensive snacks!!!
Don't confuse the group hug with logic.
Most kids that have the question of "are you possibly deathly allergic to this?" asked, are usually taken to an allergy specialist.
I was. It was a horrible experience. I got jabbed with subcutaneous injections of over 70 different allergens all over my arms and back to test how allergic I was. (measured welt size etc.) The sensation is not unlike rolling around in a poison ivy and used needle pile.
Yes. Many are properly tested and diagnosed by a doctor. While I am happy to be rid of the peanuts on flights personally, come on, only one more item on the list of stuff you can't have on a plane right? Peanuts and nuts in general have more volatile oils that you usually smell and might react to, unlike strawberries or shrimp. I can only talk for myself, but the oils don't cause me to go into anaphalaxis, but they certainly irritate. It sucks. I can't even have a 3 musketeer's bar because they are made on equipment next to nuts. ...you insensitive clod.
The way I remember it:
The man sneezes. He takes out a tissue, wipes his nose, then unzipps his pants, reaches in and wipes there too. After repeating this a few times, the woman asks, "What exactly is your problem with the Kleenex in the pants?".
Rather embarrased, he replies, "I suffer from a condition where I orgasm every time I sneeze."
After a bit, she asks, "Isn't there something you could take for that condition?"
"Yes. Pepper."
Have gnu, will travel.
you some walnuts and pecans.
Let them take the train or bus.
And, yes, I know that tree nuts and ground nuts are not the same.
Let them walk. But, to close to my car as I drive by and throw the biodegradable shells out the window into their faces.
Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
Didn't all airlines switch to pretzels a few years back? I haven't seen a nut on an airplane in ages.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I'm claustrophobic and get nervous when surrounded by strangers so I'm going to need an entire plane to myself.
Well, it has never been successfully tested.
It didn't seem to me like he was questioning that the kid was allergic, just about the correlation/causation due to proximity.
--
Runnin' around, robbin' banks all whacked on the Scooby Snacks...
Rocket J Squirrel would hole heatedly agree especially when flying over Gimli! Just hope they have learned how to do metric to British Standard unit calculations by now.
If this is the Sophia Huyer that I'm thinking of, then if she has her way she'll rid aeroplanes of other kinds of "nuts" ...
This person is freaking out about nuts being present in public. Really, I sympathize, but if you need to live in a bubble, don't expect everyone else to form their own bubbles to protect you. If someone is that sensitive, perhaps life in public is not for them. Maybe there's a way to introduce agoraphobia.
This is Slashdot. No need for evidence or scientific method, especially if it disproves one's argument :)
allergies to nuts are treatable. if someone is deathly allergic to nuts, then they have something that they have neglected getting fixed.
This is my sig.
lady stop your whining and travel by another mode of transport i am sick and tired of people who want to remove my rights just because a couple of of them have allergies. Canada transportation Agency what are you clowns thinking.Majority rules not a very small minority.
Nice. Now please explain what in that study had to do with peanut dust or smell. The summary talks about skin contact. Please try again.
A nut free airline? How am I and my liberal friends supposed to fly now? You insensitive clods!
For you to smell something means you have to ingest it be it pork, sewage or peanut. So if you have an allergy for something smelling could cause a problem.
Hardly seems fair.
That any idiot that approves of this legislation be classified as a "Nut" and put in a nut zone on the plane.
I get a reaction from eating peanuts... painful sores in my mouth for weeks on end. I didn't know it was peanut, until I did a controlled study for the root cause. Further study has found other nuts to cause bleeding of my tongue and the like. As long as I watch what I eat and make my own nut free products at home, I'm safe... If I eat out at the wrong place, I'll suffer for 3 weeks, waiting for the sores to heal. I'm not saying that the airlines should cater just to me, but it does suck to be me. All I ask for is a cure to this DAMNED peanut problem! :)
Considering our olfactory sense is stimulated by particles of the foreign substance landing on receptors, it sounds like the "smell" of nuts can cause an allergy if they are allergic to these same particles.
It is disappointing that most of the comments are from people who have no clue what allergies and intolerances can do to both mind and body. Generation-T, the texting generation, as a whole doesn't understand due to lack of experience the social and emotional aspects of eating. To help with that randomly single somebody out and enforce a ban on 90% of the foods they like to eat, restrict all restaurants save one national chain, restrict all other public venues of public eating, restrict eating at friends houses, and randomly jab them in the stomach several times every couple of days with a thick stick. Isolate them because it is no longer fun to go out. Don't forget to have random people tell them it is their fault for suffering. When they are sick refuse to give them medicine because there are likely binders in the medicines that are not ok. Oh yes tell them, in effect, that they are the modern day leper and they they cannot be a full member of society because you are too lazy to get off your ass and simply have more than one option available to eat.
Accommodating allergies means accommodating entire parties of people that accompany the allergy sufferer. Economically speaking all entertainment and tourism businesses NEED to cater to one person in order to bring in an entire group.
It would be great to see airlines follow through with requests in online reservations. I've flown a few airlines with food options that said 'gluten free' in the dietary needs selection on the carriers website. One airline told me to pick off the crackers. 'Um.. It doesn't work that way.' The others were even less helpful. Not that I wanted the plastic cheese, mind you, I just wanted to be treated the same as everyone else.
Some people use Disney as a curse word. Disney parks know very well the necessity of handling allergies and do it well as a whole in Florida. Because of this I, and the rest of my party, often choose Disney for vacations. Other Orlando parks don't pass the test when questioned for allergy knowledge and ability to accommodate.
Yes I have been on a flight were everyone was asked to not open any nuts because of one person. Did it bother me? No. Who wants to eat one bite of nuts and a half a bite of salt?
I have been on only one flight where I was offered a gluten free option. It was only a fluke that they had it. That particular several hour flight my seat was broken and I was asked to 'just sit forward' when I complained. After enough complaining and a YouTube video I got a mere 5% voucher for another flight. Nice people.
I just want MY buffer zone away from the geriatric flight attendants that act in no uncertain terms that it is my fault that I have an allergy even though in booking 'gluten free' was checked off on the form and they should have seen me coming months away.
Several hour trip plus wait time on the runway. You're a mile off the ground and you drank all your water because this time they wouldn't let it on the plane. Would you choose an empty bathroom or a bite of nuts?
Canada is a relatively nut free zone
Can anybody provide any real evidence that nut allergies are triggered by the "smell" of nuts? I don't think so.... I'm betting this woman is probably just a hypochondriac...
I don't have a study to cite, but I have a peanut allergy. Back in high school, in one of my classes a person behind me decided to eat some peanut m&m's during class. Prior to knowing what she was eating, I promptly felt nauseous. Anecdotally I can definitely say that allergies can be triggered by smell.
I've had many cases where just smelling the wrong thing (certain candles (even non-burning ones), perfume, body wash, shampoo, etc) will trigger an asthma attack. I can say that smell-allergies are very real.
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
Yeah we need to have at least 4797 types of free zones - for all sorts of weirdo dipshits.
We need to have exclusion zones for people who are allergic to dairy, nuts, seafood, white flours, anasthetic, perfume, water, sunlight, christians, moslems, buddists, white people, black people, brown people, red people, yellow people, blue people and green people, jews, nazis, republicans, democrats, liberals, labors, cathoholics, prodestants, anglicans, flung-shoee, spider phobics, people afraid of flying, queer hating christians and their loving imaginary deity, agrophobics, claustrophobics, compulsive hand washers, shape changing lizard people, stupid window users etc., etc., etc.
Personally I prefer to pen them and load them with an electric cattle prod and occasionally beat them with a stick - to make them shut the fuck up with all their whining.
Just want to point out the 'airplane recycled-air' claim is a myth. Check this out.
Oh god, I know feining libertarian outrage about minor shit like this Slashdot’s bread and butter, but please stop with the bullshit. We aren’t talking about people with common nut allergies, not people who are allergic to strawberries or sunlight or the colour red. Designating a few seats on the plane where nuts aren’t allowed is hardly re-engineering the entire operation is it?
Based on this, all you can say is that your allergie is real.
There are many, many ways you could have come into contact with nuts regardless of these M&Ms. What if a hand you shook earlier that day had been in contact with nuts? Or that hand touched the same doorhandle as you?
You even say that this happened at school, where one desk is used by several others throughout a day. Maybe someone ate something containing nuts a few days ago and there was some residue left on the desk. You could have contracted it via skin or gotten it on your fingers. Once on your fingers it's quickly transferred to some weak spot like eyes, nose or mouth.
The M&Ms are just indices, not evidence. And to you personally it's a reminder that you have to be careful. If it is within range that you can smell it, it's most likely also in range for physical contact and you deal with that.
And if it really is airborne, then how is buffer zones going to help? It can travel by air outside the zone and stick to clothing or hair and then drop off inside the zone.
Allergies are complex, that's why we have no cure. Some allergies are triggered by air (pollen), but that allergie is also very different from nut allergies. You react to different things. Also keep in mind that most allergies also cross react with other things, which we have not mapped out completely. Something else may trigger your nut allergie and nobody knows what. It is far too complex to tackle allergies by banning stuff.
That was fucking terrible. The only thing worse was your autofellatio at the end. Bravo. 4chan is back that way.
Evolution dictates that people with peanut allergies are supposed to die so their defective genes are removed from the pool.
There is more and more a trend towards structuring society in such a manner as to accommodate every potential disability, no matter how small the number of affected individuals, in every possible scenario and situation. There has to be a reasonable middle-ground that will assist most disabled folks most of the time, while not unduly burdening or inconveniencing the majority.
I'm all for reasonable accommodations for the disabled. Things like curb cuts and ramps for wheelchair users come to mind. They assist the disabled while still permitting normal use by everyone else. But carry access for the disabled to an extreme, and it just starts to become ludicrous. Should office employees be banned from using perfume, aftershave, or scented hair products because a single employee has an allergy? Must buses accommodate wheelchair users when that extra few minutes loading a passenger may well mean missing a transfer connection and making the other 20 or 30 riders late for work? And while I understand the need of some people for service dogs, I don't really want one at the table next to me in a restaurant.
Again, reasonable accommodations are fine, but I also believe disabled people have to accept at some point that there are some things they just aren't going to be able to do, certain places they can't access, and situations that are best avoided. And, unfortunately, the less common and more obscure/unusual your disability, the greater the odds of limitations. That may not sound sympathetic or P.C., but it's realistic.
"Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." -- Eric Hoffer
We do take proper precautions (e.g. have some space between kids if one is having a PBJ sandwich)
I'm glad you are taking a practical approach to this, and managing the problem yourself (and teaching your son take responsibility to manage his allergy as well).
For far too many parents, the solution would be to lobby the school to ban all peanut-based products outright. It doesn't solve the problem, doesn't help the allergic child learn to manage his own condition, and doesn't earn him any friends. My daughters school has done this, and now they have a school full of kids who mostly are not aware how serious this type of allergy can be.
Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
Nobody ever died of not eating nuts for a whole flight, but people have I expect died from eating them.
Now, nuts are a healthy, convenient, nutritional, tasty food item and undoubtedly a valuable part of aerospace cuisine.
But they should just stop serving them. It isn't a matter of catering to every last kook, but simple safety management.
300 packets of roasted peanuts being opened at once, with static and dry air in a closed cabin, just might be fatal to someone.
Hint: Slashdot does not handle non-US characters very well, especially the mu character. A direct cut and paste of a scientific abstract will rarely render as intended. Here's a link to the abstract
And here's the salient bit, corrected for typos.
Conclusion: Even in a group of well-characterized, highly sensitive subjects with peanut allergy, the threshold dose of peanut protein varies. As little as 100 micrograms of peanut protein provokes symptoms in some subjects with peanut allergy. (J Allergy Clin Immunol 1997;100:596-600.)
Nice. Now please explain what in that study had to do with peanut dust
Peanut dust, Peanut flour... what's the difference?
Based on this, all you can say is that your allergie is real.
No, that's not all. Based on my experience I can say with very high certainty that when I smell peanuts, it triggers my allergy. Based on my own 'case study', my consistent observation over the past 15 years or so (which is how long I've been allergic to peanuts), is that peanut scent makes me sick, period.
I'm not sure why you want to argue that peanut scent isn't a trigger, and that you have to have had physical contact, or have some specific method of airborne particulate population.
The odd thing is that when I was itty bitty, I used to eat pbj, and eat peanut butter right out of a jar, etc. One day I had a peanut butter sandwich and thew up. Ever since then I was allergic.
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
You want to err on the side of freedom to do as you please (within the law) in public - I want to err on the side of the freedom to be in public (i.e. people with fairly common allergies being free to use public places*)
The thing is, everybody is free to be on the plane. You may not like the consequences of doing the things you are free to do, but that doesn't mean you aren't free to do them.
I you want to get on a plane and be free from people doing X, that means people's freedom to do X has to be taken away from them.
I suppose they're just different forms of freedom.
No, one is a form of freedom, the other is a form of imposition of restrictions so a certain group of people can have things their way.
Freedom from means taking away others' freedom to.
Now, I've described what the two things are (freedom and restriction); I'm not saying one is always better than the other, or most often. I'm pro-restrictions when they make sense. Isn't the whole point of democracy that We The People impose on We The People a set of rules which are meant to bring about a state of affairs that We The People like?
I like that random people on the street aren't free to kill me, and I'm more than happy to give up my own freedom to kill others to get that. I'm glad politicians are forcing phone companies to let me keep my phone number when I change to a different carrier. I'm also glad I'm free to be a disagreeable asshole on slashdot if I like, although I aim for arguing counterpoints and -arguments in a respectful tone :)
Serve pretzels instead of nuts on aircraft and be done with it? How many people care whether they get pretzels or nuts anyway?
That's so effing stupid. Airlines would be much better off installing HEPA filters on all the air blowers and handing out masks to people who want them. That could cut down on the spread of cold and flu virus. Come to think of it, if someone has a peanut-dust allergy, give them a mask. No reason the rest of the plane should suffer because one person is thumbing his/her nose at Darwin.
A lot of people complain about fatties on a plane, in my extensive flying experience they are not the ones you need to worry about. An overweight person who is polite and situationally aware (this is a lot of people on an aircraft) will sit there and compact themselves in for the duration (granted I'm talking about a regular overweight person, not a "sir, you'll need to buy two seats" person, which I've never actually seen in real life). It's the smellies you need to worry about, a fattie can suck in that gut and compress themselves but you cant compress a smell, you'll be stuck next to that smell breathing it through the recycled air for the entire flight. Given the choice I'd rather sit next to a fattie then a smellie.
After smellies come screaming babies and kids/old people who kick the back of my chair. Granted a lot of parents will fix the situation if it's bought to their attention (politely of course) but old people you can do nothing about.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Why not just have certain flights that do not allow any allergens onboard? Cats, dogs, peanuts, wheat, whatever...
My mom and I have severe allergies to perfumes, colones, and even soaps due to the chemical aromas in them. I demand a Flight were passengers are not allowed to wear anything of the sort!!!.
That's just nuts!
I hope they don't restrict babies just because they assume all babies cry.
My kid is not yet 2 years old. At the age of 3 months, he flew from North America to Asia, a 15-hour direct flight. He didn't cry the whole flight, except for 2 minutes after the plane had landed while everyone was getting ready to get off, because we couldn't give him the milk bottle fast enough (everyone else was getting their luggage out, too). At that moment it must have been very annoying for the passengers for 120 seconds of continuous crying, but I'll bet you most of them hadn't even known that there was a baby sitting behind them all flight long.
At the age of 4 months, he flew back to North America. 15 hours. Zero crying.
At 5 months, 2 hour domestic flight there, and again on the return flight. Zero crying.
8 months old: again trans-Pacific flight, 15 hours each way. Cried a bit on the way there because the stupid airline didn't assign him a bassinet, saying that all six available bassinets had been taken by other babies. Turned out there were only 2 other babies on the flight. We yelled at the airline, and on the way back got a bassinet. Guess what? No crying. Duhhh... (By the way, he didn't really need a bassinet; he just needed the extra space available in the seats that have been assigned to bassinet, for those 15- hour flights. He had no bassinet on the 2-hour flight, with no problems.)
15 months old: again 15 hour flight. A bit fussier this time, but more like he was babbling loudly. (Other flights he never did this.)
17 months old: crossed the US/Canada border both ways on a 5-hour flight there and 5-hour flight back. No crying that lasted beyond 10 seconds (more like whining, a few times when he wasn't allowed to grab my full cup of water).
So, I know that there are flights where the screaming babies are just really annoying. But I'll bet you there have been flights where you didn't even know there was a baby.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
What's the difference? Do you not realize what peanut flour is? It's a cooking ingredient for crying out loud. Now reread what you posted.
"We used a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled food challenge"
Food! They baked the peanut flour into food and fed it too them. Also, the quantity should have been a clue. Try inhaling 100mg of peanut protein.
Food! They baked the peanut flour into food and fed it too them. Also, the quantity should have been a clue. Try inhaling 100mg of peanut protein.
READ THE FUCKING PAPER. It says nothing about 100 milligrams.
"We used a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled food challenge of 14 subjects allergic to peanuts with doses of peanut ranging from 10 micrograms to 50 milligrams, administered in the form of a commercially available peanut flour" source
If you can't tell the difference between a milligram and a microgram, you have no business in a lab.
My god, your stupidity is mind-boggling
It wasn't linked to. Sure I could do the AC's work (by the way...were you the AC that posted it?), and google it myself, which I did, and it turns out it's a subscriber only article.
Sorry, but in the AC's post there are several references to "100 g", which seemed like quite a lot, and since everything else was in mg it made sense that it probably should have been mg rather than g. Apparently he/she meant ug, but don't give me shit because someone (you?) can't be bothered to proofread the post.
1) I can tell the difference perfectly when it's written properly
2) When the fuck did anyone say anything about me working in a lab? I'm a computer programmer.
Slashdot strips out the greek Mu, so "mu"gram becomes gram-- a million times larger And some sources have managed to confuse milligrams with micrograms. When someone quotes a scientific source, it's a good idea to go to the original-- even the original abstract helps.
In this case, the maximum dose tested was 50 milligrams. Short lived, subjective reactions were induced with as little as 100 micrograms, and systemic reactions were induced with as little as 5 milligrams.