It doesn't pass your "no restrictions on what OS I run" criterion though, unless you run windows in a virtual PC. It will, however, run linux and osx fine.
It's not necessily a matter of Windows Vs. Linux. It's a matter of open-source mentality Vs. closed-source mentality. Open-source software evolves, naturally. Closed-source software only evolves when the keepers of the code are forced to improve it, and usually only if they stand to receive some money for their work.
It's very hard to beat mother nature. Try developing AI software that's smarter all-around than an average five year-old child. It's similarly more difficult to harden your OSs security holes in a sterile lab, Vs. letting the planet full of open-source savages hammer away at your sourcecode and then considering their suggestions for improvement.
For instance, RPC has been enabled for use from the internet since Windows NT, and it's been a problem since Windows NT. It remained a problem through NT, windows 2000, and windows XP. It was no secret that:
- c$ shares open to the internet were a problem
- many many boxes had username=Administrator, password=blank
- guest accounts were enabled by default
- psexec and psreboot were freely available
Was anything done by MS to fix this problem? No. Why not? Was it because they're evil and should be equated to the borg? No. It's because MS is profit-motivated, and their bottom line wasn't negatively affected by leaving these problems unaddressed. Their customers would surely have benefited by a fixed OS, but that's not the driving force for a company such as MS.
When the OpenSSH exploit was identified as a problem, it was immediately fixed. Practically ALL the linux distros made the patched version of OpenSSH available immediately, and all subsequent versions of their distros had the patched OpenSSH. Was it fixed because we Showed the Money to the owners of the OpenSSH sourcecode? No. It wasn't an issue. Mother nature dictated that it was time for OpenSSH to evolve, so it improved or it died.
Those that don't look at these issues as matters of principal deserve what they get. Those that continue to ignorantly use closed-source and proprietary-file-format OSs and software, placing all their sensitive accounting and other business data into closed-source developer's hands, have no one to blame but themselves.
I'm not saying that everyone should train themselves to be a ninja programmer and write their own software. Business owners need to hire intelligent IT staff, and treat that aspect of their business with the respect that it deserves.
The IT decisions (apache Vs. IIS, outlook Vs. ANYTHING_ELSE, exchange Vs. IMAP, Windows Vs. Linux, MS OFFice Vs. OpenOffice) should get the same attention as accounting decisions, legal decisions, and HR decisions. That's not usually the case though. If the business owners don't know the right answers, they should hire at least one or two seasoned IT veterans to advise. Many of these unpatched business computers are the result of sloppy hiring at the upper IT level. If competent people manned the upper IT positions, better firewalls would be established, PCs would be patched, and possibly there'd be a little bit less closed-source, closed-file-format, proprietary software and OSs in use.
I was tempted to flame back, until I realized that you're probably closer to the truth than many of us linux users would like to admit.
I must say though that you forgot to mention that, for all of our faults, we're smart enough NOT to waste our money on a crappy OS, and that we've actually got enough sense to figure out how to implement an alternative to Windows.
On the jobless issue, it's a shame we linux users don't have the job offers rolling in. If only we had MCSE certs to convey our worth to potential employers. We're too busy writing shell scripts to do our work for us to worry with learning marketable skills like how to point-and-click my way though applying hourly security releases. There's no doubt the world needs a lot of people that can apply MS hotfixes.
I think their linux stats may have been a bit higher if UT2k3's framerate had been a little better in linux. My machine (Athlon 1600, 512MB DDR, GF3Ti200, Mandrake 9.0) plays Q3 and its various mods (mainly urbanterror) perfectly, yet UT2k3 is barely playable. The same box in windows played UT2k3 fine.
I used linux any time that I played it, but I didn't play it much because getting fragged because of game lag just plain sucks. I usually switch back to the old UT, Q3, or urbanterror after a few minutes of UT2k3 torture.
I couldn't agree more. I bought UT2003 the day it came out, solely to do my part to support epic's release of a high-profile game with linux support on day one.
When the UT2k3 demo came out with linux support, I sent an email to epic thanking them. I got a very nice email back stating that linux was very important to them, and that one of the developers in particular (Ryan C. Gordon) was the man to thank.
I wonder what's changed, if anything, regarding their disposition towards linux gaming.
Unless you've got some portable-player research skills way beyond mine, your way should say "I do not buy a portable player."
My wife wanted a portable mp3 player for jogging and I found none that support ogg. I wound up buying a diamond rio s50. It supports SD cards, and there are linux drivers for it.
I wanted a car stereo that would support mp3 cds and found none that supported ogg. I didn't look at any that were over $1000 though, maybe some of them support it. I wound up getting a $150 JVC that supports mp3s on cd and has a pretty good ui.
By the way, those instructions apply to Mandrake 9.0, not Mandrake 9.1. I suspect that there's an equivalent to them for 9.1, but I've not tried it because 9.1 is likely still two or three releases from production.
The biggest difference between Mandrake and Red Hat is urpmi. urpmi is the packaging system that Mandrake employees, and just about every desirable program is available (after a little setup) with a simple:
urpmi (packagename)
First though, it's very handy to setup urpmi so that it never requests the installation CDs, but rather gets the packages via the internet. Here's what I do immediately after installing Mandrake:
1. Remove the three CD-based package sources:
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1)"
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)"
urpmi.removemedia "International CD (x86) (cdrom3)"
2. replace them with an FTP source:
urpmi.addmedia base-ftp ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/9.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS with../base/hdlist.cz
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
3. add the contrib source:
urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/9.0/contrib/RPMS with synthesis.hdlist2.cz
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
4. add the plf software source:
urpmi.addmedia plf ftp://plf.chem.yorku.ca/pub/plf/9.0 with hdlist.cz
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
After those four steps (don't forget to su to root before you run them) you'll be able to easily install just about any program that you run across . It brings the installation ease that Debian users enjoy (via apt) to linux newbies in Mandrake. Redhat has nothing that can touch urpmi. The term "RPM Hell" exists for a reason -- RedHat.
Any idea whether turbo tax under win4lin or vmware, on a linux-only system, would get to the MBR? Would the bios setting that prevents boot sector access without a warning protect from this?
First of all, you're a moron.
Second of all, MS IS going out of its way to (improperly) support this version of a competing product. That's why when Opera 7 identifies itself as Opera 7 to MSN, it gets the opera-specific css sheet. If it identifies itself as something else (Oprah for example), it gets the generic IE 6 sheet. The -30 location for the rendered text doesn't expose a "flaw" in opera, it tells opera to move the text to the left beyond what is displayable. Some people actually use things like that in dhtml to accomplish their html goals. MS uses it to "break" this specific browser's ability to display MSN correctly.
And, third of all, you're a moron.
Opera isn't just a Microsoft's competitor in the browser arena. Opera threatens the Windows OS. If Opera can surf just as well as IE, and it takes hold in consumers' homes and on the corporate desktop, that's one less reason that people HAVE to run Windows.
So, MS uses their portal (the DEFAULT webpage on practically every new computer sold in America) to stifle Opera. I doubt MS cares about revenue from its portal. On one front, the portal to do nothing but further invest consumers in MS Windows.
The intended target audience for my post was not the average PC user. The average PC user doesn't visit slashdot. The average PC users doesn't use linux. The average PC user isn't a nerd, and the average PC user doesn't care about stuff that matters.
My post was intended to be relevent to the linux users that are slamming Mandrake for being a buggy and useless distro. The critical posts in this thread are clearly being made by people who already use linux, are probably nerds, know that KDE and Gnome are bloated, and (incorrectly) think that Mandrake is akin to RedHat 8.0's bloat.
I was simply pointing out that Mandrake can be installed in a way that suits those guys just as well as it suits the average user.
Just to make it clear - Mandrake 9.0's default install is probably as newbie-friendly as any distro. No "expert" mode,.xinitrc files, urpmi source mods, or nvidia driver drivers are required. It works just fine for newbies without any of that stuff.
But you're going to be hard-pressed to find anything that's "good" by simply using the defaults. Want to make your [insert your preferred os] installation "good", learn how to tweak it and how to make it WORK FOR YOU. Want to be a puppet on a string for [insert your favorite PC/OS/App vendor] then buy what catches your eye, use the default settings, give them access to your cookies, give them your credit card, and sit back and enjoy.
To get the nvidia drivers to work in mandrake, I went to their linux download site: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=linux_dis play_ia 32_1.0-4191
Then I download the tar file for the kernel: http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86_40/1.0 -4191/NVI DIA_kernel-1.0-4191.tar.gz
Then I download the tar file for GLX: http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86_40/1.0-41 91/NVI DIA_GLX-1.0-4191.tar.gz
Then I untar both files.
Then I go into the untarred kernel directory and "make install" it (as root)
Then I go into the untarred GLX director and "make install".
Then, reboot.
I've had problems with their rpms at times, but the source tar files always work. You need to make sure that you've got all your kernel source installed ("urpmi kernel-source" & urpmi kernel-headers")
I just don't get you mandrake naysayers. Have you tried Mandrake 9.0? You don't have to use KDE or Gnome, it's right there in the install. The following tips will surely change a few of your minds:
1. During installation, select "advanced" installation, rather than the default.
2. Be sure to add "Other Window Managers" in addition to KDE & Gnome
3. Make the selection during install that DOESN'T start X on bootup.
4. After installation, put a.xinitrc file in your home directory. Put "exec icewm", "exec fluxbox" or whatever you like for your window manager in it.
5. use urpmi.remove to get rid of the CD sources for package installation:
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1)" urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)" urpmi.removemedia "International CD (x86) (cdrom3)"
and replace them with an FTP source: urpmi.addmedia base-ftp ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/9.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS with../base/hdlist.cz
and add the contrib source: urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/9.0/contrib/RPMS with synthesis.hdlist2.cz
so it never ever prompts you for CDs (assuming you've got broadband)
Add the plf software source: urpmi.addmedia plf ftp://plf.chem.yorku.ca/pub/plf/9.0 with hdlist.cz
Now, you can install just about anything you like with a simple "urpmi {package name}". For instance, if you want mutt, and you're also missing a lot of its dependencies, "urpmi mutt" will not only get mutt, but it will first get whatever is needed for mutt to run. FreeBSD addicts can surely appreciate that (ala the freebsd ports system).
I've been running MDK9.0 since the day it was out of beta and have never had these buggy problems that some of you complain about. No window manager problems (I use fluxbox), no nvidia problems (I've played many a LAN party with my box, never had a crash during crunch time yet), no problems of any kind.
You boneheads should give it a chance before blasting it. Don't try to use it as if it were some kind of RedHat clone, it's moved way beyond that in the last couple of years.
TightVNC is a much better choice. It offers compression, and is much faster.
If you're concerned about security, then don't open the VNC ports up to the Internet. Install cygwin, install openssh, run it as a service, and ssh to the windows box and tunnel the VNC ports through ssh.
If you think Null limits your choices, then you're wrong. You still have the choice to choose Mandrake, Slackware, or any of the many other Linux alternatives. If you "choose" Redhat, then you get a unified look, if you choose one of the other distros, you get their look.
Null seems to be a good choice for corporations wishing to establish some sort of common denominator regarding the desktops that the PC support group will encounter. It also seems to be a good choice for new Linux users that just want to surf, email, word process, and move on.
I agree. CAT5 can be had for $50/1000 ft., wall plates are $10, routers are cheap, switches are cheap, etc... Plus, the bandwidth would be much higher, it would be much easier to secure, and would result in much fewer setup hassles. Wireless NICs are a huge pain in the ass to setup on desktops.
Slashdot Mirror
Here ya go:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html
It doesn't pass your "no restrictions on what OS I run" criterion though, unless you run windows in a virtual PC. It will, however, run linux and osx fine.
It's not necessily a matter of Windows Vs. Linux. It's a matter of open-source mentality Vs. closed-source mentality. Open-source software evolves, naturally. Closed-source software only evolves when the keepers of the code are forced to improve it, and usually only if they stand to receive some money for their work.
It's very hard to beat mother nature. Try developing AI software that's smarter all-around than an average five year-old child. It's similarly more difficult to harden your OSs security holes in a sterile lab, Vs. letting the planet full of open-source savages hammer away at your sourcecode and then considering their suggestions for improvement.
For instance, RPC has been enabled for use from the internet since Windows NT, and it's been a problem since Windows NT. It remained a problem through NT, windows 2000, and windows XP. It was no secret that:
- c$ shares open to the internet were a problem
- many many boxes had username=Administrator, password=blank
- guest accounts were enabled by default
- psexec and psreboot were freely available
Was anything done by MS to fix this problem? No. Why not? Was it because they're evil and should be equated to the borg? No. It's because MS is profit-motivated, and their bottom line wasn't negatively affected by leaving these problems unaddressed. Their customers would surely have benefited by a fixed OS, but that's not the driving force for a company such as MS.
When the OpenSSH exploit was identified as a problem, it was immediately fixed. Practically ALL the linux distros made the patched version of OpenSSH available immediately, and all subsequent versions of their distros had the patched OpenSSH. Was it fixed because we Showed the Money to the owners of the OpenSSH sourcecode? No. It wasn't an issue. Mother nature dictated that it was time for OpenSSH to evolve, so it improved or it died.
Those that don't look at these issues as matters of principal deserve what they get. Those that continue to ignorantly use closed-source and proprietary-file-format OSs and software, placing all their sensitive accounting and other business data into closed-source developer's hands, have no one to blame but themselves.
I'm not saying that everyone should train themselves to be a ninja programmer and write their own software. Business owners need to hire intelligent IT staff, and treat that aspect of their business with the respect that it deserves.
The IT decisions (apache Vs. IIS, outlook Vs. ANYTHING_ELSE, exchange Vs. IMAP, Windows Vs. Linux, MS OFFice Vs. OpenOffice) should get the same attention as accounting decisions, legal decisions, and HR decisions. That's not usually the case though. If the business owners don't know the right answers, they should hire at least one or two seasoned IT veterans to advise. Many of these unpatched business computers are the result of sloppy hiring at the upper IT level. If competent people manned the upper IT positions, better firewalls would be established, PCs would be patched, and possibly there'd be a little bit less closed-source, closed-file-format, proprietary software and OSs in use.
I was tempted to flame back, until I realized that you're probably closer to the truth than many of us linux users would like to admit.
I must say though that you forgot to mention that, for all of our faults, we're smart enough NOT to waste our money on a crappy OS, and that we've actually got enough sense to figure out how to implement an alternative to Windows.
On the jobless issue, it's a shame we linux users don't have the job offers rolling in. If only we had MCSE certs to convey our worth to potential employers. We're too busy writing shell scripts to do our work for us to worry with learning marketable skills like how to point-and-click my way though applying hourly security releases. There's no doubt the world needs a lot of people that can apply MS hotfixes.
I think their linux stats may have been a bit higher if UT2k3's framerate had been a little better in linux. My machine (Athlon 1600, 512MB DDR, GF3Ti200, Mandrake 9.0) plays Q3 and its various mods (mainly urbanterror) perfectly, yet UT2k3 is barely playable. The same box in windows played UT2k3 fine.
I used linux any time that I played it, but I didn't play it much because getting fragged because of game lag just plain sucks. I usually switch back to the old UT, Q3, or urbanterror after a few minutes of UT2k3 torture.
I couldn't agree more. I bought UT2003 the day it came out, solely to do my part to support epic's release of a high-profile game with linux support on day one.
When the UT2k3 demo came out with linux support, I sent an email to epic thanking them. I got a very nice email back stating that linux was very important to them, and that one of the developers in particular (Ryan C. Gordon) was the man to thank.
I wonder what's changed, if anything, regarding their disposition towards linux gaming.
Unless you've got some portable-player research skills way beyond mine, your way should say "I do not buy a portable player."
My wife wanted a portable mp3 player for jogging and I found none that support ogg. I wound up buying a diamond rio s50. It supports SD cards, and there are linux drivers for it.
I wanted a car stereo that would support mp3 cds and found none that supported ogg. I didn't look at any that were over $1000 though, maybe some of them support it. I wound up getting a $150 JVC that supports mp3s on cd and has a pretty good ui.
On math you get an A. On reading comprehension, you get a C. :) The article said $300 per year and it's a four-year program.
By the way, those instructions apply to Mandrake 9.0, not Mandrake 9.1. I suspect that there's an equivalent to them for 9.1, but I've not tried it because 9.1 is likely still two or three releases from production.
The biggest difference between Mandrake and Red Hat is urpmi. urpmi is the packaging system that Mandrake employees, and just about every desirable program is available (after a little setup) with a simple:
a ke/9.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS with ../base/hdlist.cz
a ke/9.0/contrib/RPMS with synthesis.hdlist2.cz
urpmi (packagename)
First though, it's very handy to setup urpmi so that it never requests the installation CDs, but rather gets the packages via the internet. Here's what I do immediately after installing Mandrake:
1. Remove the three CD-based package sources:
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1)"
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)"
urpmi.removemedia "International CD (x86) (cdrom3)"
2. replace them with an FTP source:
urpmi.addmedia base-ftp ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
3. add the contrib source:
urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
4. add the plf software source:
urpmi.addmedia plf ftp://plf.chem.yorku.ca/pub/plf/9.0 with hdlist.cz
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
After those four steps (don't forget to su to root before you run them) you'll be able to easily install just about any program that you run across . It brings the installation ease that Debian users enjoy (via apt) to linux newbies in Mandrake. Redhat has nothing that can touch urpmi. The term "RPM Hell" exists for a reason -- RedHat.
Any idea whether turbo tax under win4lin or vmware, on a linux-only system, would get to the MBR? Would the bios setting that prevents boot sector access without a warning protect from this?
First of all, you're a moron. Second of all, MS IS going out of its way to (improperly) support this version of a competing product. That's why when Opera 7 identifies itself as Opera 7 to MSN, it gets the opera-specific css sheet. If it identifies itself as something else (Oprah for example), it gets the generic IE 6 sheet. The -30 location for the rendered text doesn't expose a "flaw" in opera, it tells opera to move the text to the left beyond what is displayable. Some people actually use things like that in dhtml to accomplish their html goals. MS uses it to "break" this specific browser's ability to display MSN correctly. And, third of all, you're a moron.
Opera isn't just a Microsoft's competitor in the browser arena. Opera threatens the Windows OS. If Opera can surf just as well as IE, and it takes hold in consumers' homes and on the corporate desktop, that's one less reason that people HAVE to run Windows.
So, MS uses their portal (the DEFAULT webpage on practically every new computer sold in America) to stifle Opera. I doubt MS cares about revenue from its portal. On one front, the portal to do nothing but further invest consumers in MS Windows.
The intended target audience for my post was not the average PC user. The average PC user doesn't visit slashdot. The average PC users doesn't use linux. The average PC user isn't a nerd, and the average PC user doesn't care about stuff that matters.
.xinitrc files, urpmi source mods, or nvidia driver drivers are required. It works just fine for newbies without any of that stuff.
My post was intended to be relevent to the linux users that are slamming Mandrake for being a buggy and useless distro. The critical posts in this thread are clearly being made by people who already use linux, are probably nerds, know that KDE and Gnome are bloated, and (incorrectly) think that Mandrake is akin to RedHat 8.0's bloat.
I was simply pointing out that Mandrake can be installed in a way that suits those guys just as well as it suits the average user.
Just to make it clear - Mandrake 9.0's default install is probably as newbie-friendly as any distro. No "expert" mode,
But you're going to be hard-pressed to find anything that's "good" by simply using the defaults. Want to make your [insert your preferred os] installation "good", learn how to tweak it and how to make it WORK FOR YOU. Want to be a puppet on a string for [insert your favorite PC/OS/App vendor] then buy what catches your eye, use the default settings, give them access to your cookies, give them your credit card, and sit back and enjoy.
To get the nvidia drivers to work in mandrake, I went to their linux download site:s play_ia 32_1.0-4191
0 -4191/NVI DIA_kernel-1.0-4191.tar.gz
1 91/NVI DIA_GLX-1.0-4191.tar.gz
http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=linux_di
Then I download the tar file for the kernel:
http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86_40/1.
Then I download the tar file for GLX:
http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86_40/1.0-4
Then I untar both files.
Then I go into the untarred kernel directory and "make install" it (as root)
Then I go into the untarred GLX director and "make install".
Then, reboot.
I've had problems with their rpms at times, but the source tar files always work. You need to make sure that you've got all your kernel source installed ("urpmi kernel-source" & urpmi kernel-headers")
I just don't get you mandrake naysayers. Have you tried Mandrake 9.0? You don't have to use KDE or Gnome, it's right there in the install. The following tips will surely change a few of your minds:
.xinitrc file in your home directory. Put "exec icewm", "exec fluxbox" or whatever you like for your window manager in it.
a ke/9.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS with ../base/hdlist.cz
a ke/9.0/contrib/RPMS with synthesis.hdlist2.cz
1. During installation, select "advanced" installation, rather than the default.
2. Be sure to add "Other Window Managers" in addition to KDE & Gnome
3. Make the selection during install that DOESN'T start X on bootup.
4. After installation, put a
5. use urpmi.remove to get rid of the CD sources for package installation:
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1)"
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)"
urpmi.removemedia "International CD (x86) (cdrom3)"
and replace them with an FTP source:
urpmi.addmedia base-ftp ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
and add the contrib source:
urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
so it never ever prompts you for CDs (assuming you've got broadband)
Add the plf software source:
urpmi.addmedia plf ftp://plf.chem.yorku.ca/pub/plf/9.0 with hdlist.cz
Now, you can install just about anything you like with a simple "urpmi {package name}". For instance, if you want mutt, and you're also missing a lot of its dependencies, "urpmi mutt" will not only get mutt, but it will first get whatever is needed for mutt to run. FreeBSD addicts can surely appreciate that (ala the freebsd ports system).
I've been running MDK9.0 since the day it was out of beta and have never had these buggy problems that some of you complain about. No window manager problems (I use fluxbox), no nvidia problems (I've played many a LAN party with my box, never had a crash during crunch time yet), no problems of any kind.
You boneheads should give it a chance before blasting it. Don't try to use it as if it were some kind of RedHat clone, it's moved way beyond that in the last couple of years.
TightVNC is a much better choice. It offers compression, and is much faster.
If you're concerned about security, then don't open the VNC ports up to the Internet. Install cygwin, install openssh, run it as a service, and ssh to the windows box and tunnel the VNC ports through ssh.
If you think Null limits your choices, then you're wrong. You still have the choice to choose Mandrake, Slackware, or any of the many other Linux alternatives. If you "choose" Redhat, then you get a unified look, if you choose one of the other distros, you get their look.
Null seems to be a good choice for corporations wishing to establish some sort of common denominator regarding the desktops that the PC support group will encounter. It also seems to be a good choice for new Linux users that just want to surf, email, word process, and move on.
I agree. CAT5 can be had for $50/1000 ft., wall plates are $10, routers are cheap, switches are cheap, etc... Plus, the bandwidth would be much higher, it would be much easier to secure, and would result in much fewer setup hassles. Wireless NICs are a huge pain in the ass to setup on desktops.
Whatever happened to KISS?