I was a teenage hacker (or "cracker" if you want to nitpick). The funny thing is, I did it (crack systems) openly in front of my parents, they just didn't know what I was doing. One of my friends came over, and we were checking out this system that I had got into. He was all paranoid and kept hiding it when my parents walked by. My mom suspected something and thought we were downloading porno or something. He could've just left it and my parents wouldn't have had a clue what we were doing.
As for the other concern, porno. Of course, any healthy teenage boy will have gigs of porno stored away by age 15. Why try to stop this?
Totally offtopic... but, I am VERY glad that marijuana is illegal. I don't want my kids to be constantly bombarded with peer pressure at school and through the media that these filthy, unregulated, unhealthy, pschyo-retardant drugs and their irresponsible use is completely ok.
Guess what? Marijuana is easy for your kids to get. Its easier for them to get than alcohol. Why is that? Because its illegal, therefore a black market is created allowing anyone to buy and sell it. You're kids might even be selling it. A lot of kids do, its easy profit. I even know of one guy who sold it when he was a kid, but didn't actually use it. The black market that is created by it being illegal allows for this.
As for media exposure it already exists. Don't your kids watch movies, TV, and listen to music? Don't your kids use the internet or read other types of media? Don't your kids get taught about drugs through school drug education programs? Drug education programs are teaching your kids just how cool drugs can be, more than anyone else. The fact that these drugs are illegal makes them even more appealing to kids. It's "cool" to be a drug dealer to them. If you tell an 11-year-old that LSD will make you see what you hear, and hear what you see, (that's one of the things that I learned from drug education at that age) don't you think that child is going to be curious as to what that feels like?
Kids are curious. They know about this stuff, its not hidden from them. They will learn about it, and they will find it and try it. Just steer them away from the dangerous hard drugs, that's all you can hope to do.
It is not ok to waste yourself away in a stupor, believing to have expanded your mind when in reality you've done the opposite.
Spoken like someone who has either not used it, or does not know how to use it, or just didn't enjoy it. That's fine, but don't be so quick to say people are wasting themselves if you haven't the experience. I could go into great detail about how its useful (therapeutic value), but I won't bore you with all that detail (unless you're sincerely interested). You can easilly say anything is a waste. You can say meditation is a waste, or listening to music is a waste, or having fun is a waste, or seeing a mental health counselor is a waste.
Do you think alcohol should be illegal too? Do you think prohibition in the 1920's worked then? Do you think its working now?
Regardless of whether you think using marijuana is worthwhile, do you really think the creation of a black market and the crime that surrounds it is a good thing?
Do you think drug users are criminals? More specifically, do you think marijuana users are criminals?
I'd love to hear what you and anyone else has to say about this.
No, I don't want machinists or truck drivers on grass or crack cocaine (or programmers, just look at the disastrous products from Redmond). Repeat after me: drug tests at work are good.
You've gotta be kidding. First fo all, the cocaine users will be able to pass drug tests if they know in advance, cocaine does not stay in your system very long (2-3 days I think). So a business that drug tests is likely to have a few (or a lot) cocaine users.
Its the marijuana smokers who are the victims of drug tests. Marijuana use can be detected a month after your last use, sometimes more.
I'm a programmer. So you think I should not able to use marijuana when I'm at home on my own free time? Please explain why you think this. Thankfully, I work for someone who is pro-legalization of marijauna (and thus is strongly against drug testing). It doesn't matter what I do in my spare time, as long as I produce quality work.
I don't want truck drivers to be drunk. But its not illegal for them to drink when they're not working.
I hope you're not one of those people who thinks that marijuana use is harmful and that it should be illegal. Like I've said many times before, cook it in butter, and eat it, and its very healthy. Its very unfortunate such a harmless and useful drug is illegal.
Yeah.. If the sun is really going to blow up and destroy the earth, I'd like to know in advance so I can get a group of hot women together and have unprotected sex with them.
then the greedy driver takes advantage and gets home before the cooperating drivers
2. Never be greedy (Golden Rule) -- that way you're looking out for the common good, and if most other people do the same, then the relatively few greedy jerks out there won't cause too much trouble.
I choose #2. I don't give a damn who gets home earlier, I just smoke a joint, crank up my high-end stereo, and enjoy my drive home. No rush, hell, I even stop at yellow lights when it makes sense, let people in, stop for pedestrians (especially if they are hot women), let the other person go at a 4-way stop when I'm not sure who got there first, etc. Though, I'm not the slow guy holding traffic up or anything.
Of course, I'd probably have to change my approach if I lived in a big city (where everyone is an extremely greedy driver), but living a medium-sized city having a little patience makes driving a lot simpler.
Snake venom is harmless if cooked and eaten, too. That doesn't make it harmless.
Yes it does, you just said its harmless if cooked and eaten.
Smoking spinach leaves is harmful, that doesn't make eating the plant harmful.
Sure, smoking anything is generally unhealthy. But you don't have to smoke marijuana to use it, you can cook it in butter and eat that and achieve the same effects as smoking (in some ways a better effect). Therefore it is just what Moby wanted: a harmless drug that is not addictive.
Linus Torvalds is not all programers wear leather and ride skate boards like the people in "Hackers" and don't know kung-fu like the people in the "The Matrix." To hell with this CS degree.
ummm... duh? This didn't need to be stated. All she's good for is wacking off to the pics on her website. And that's fine by me. Anyone got (links to) any more pics of her? There were a few really hot ones that were on the her web page before, but are there no longer. Thanks.
Yeah, I remember that article. I used to crack UNIX/Linux systems exclusively. Why? Because they are way more interesting. Its much nicer to have control of a UNIX/Linux machine than some sorry little Win NT box. Besides, there's not much challenge in cracking Windows. Leave it for the worms...
This is hardly practical or applicable to the real world.
I disagree. A lot of vulnerabilities are found the way I described. They are only exploited after they've been found and the script kiddies know about it. Doing something illegal is hardly practical, in my opinion.
As for getting permission in advance, how many sysadmins do you know would give a hacker permission to try to get in through security?
I'm talking about hiring a professional to try and penetrate your network in order to determine where the vulnerabilities are. This is what is practical and applicable in the real world. I'm not talking about giving some random kid permission to screw with your network.
Before all of you get high & mighty and denounce what Adrian did, realize that his way of doing things is probably the only one that works.
The problem is not that you're going to get cracked. The problem is that one of your passwords may be sniffed out, and since you've used that password in more than one place, all those other places can be compromised. Every one of your accounts with sensitive information should all have unique passwords that you use nowhere else.
I'd also like to add, I don't think the term "white hat" can apply to people who illegally break into systems. A white hat would be someone who sets up his own systems and tests security on them, or has permission to work on a system. He would announce vulnerabilities when he finds them, usually contacting the author of the vulnerable software first. He's the true "good guy" who has done nothing wrong.
There's another term for someone who breaks into systems illegally, but does not do anything malicious, who may or may not do anything to help fix the problems. I believe they are called "grey hats." Hence the grey area here.
Of course the black hats are the true criminals, who are doing other illegal activities besides the break-in (stealing credit card numbers, desctruction/defacing of the systems, etc).
I agree that the analogy does not work. I think a better analogy is:
You happen to figure out the combination for the lock of my safe. You open it up, look at all the nudie photos of my girlfriends (and maybe watch one of the videos). So then you tell me you figured out the combination to my safe and opened it. I know what you've seen.
So say a someone breaks in but doesn't appear to do anything malicious. How do you know he didn't look at anything? How do you know he didn't read everyones personal mail, or log any credit card numbers or passwords? You don't. Sure, a true white hat should not be doing these things, but do you really trust someone to be a true white hat?
When I was a teenager, I used to gain unauthorized access to systems for fun, but never did anything malicious. I was a bit of a white hat, and got rid of other people who had cracked the systems. However, I was keenly aware of the fact that I could be arrested and charged heavilly for what I was doing. If you do something illegal, you can be charged for it. Sometimes the law isn't right, but I'm finding it hard to side on Adrian Lamo's case here.
I would love to go around cracking systems for fun and telling the admins how to fix the problems without having to worry about getting arrested. But this is simply not the case.
"I see no world peace 'cause of zealous armed forces I eat no breath-mints 'cause their from de-hoofed horses Now I can't believe; what an absolute failure The president's laughing 'cause we voted for Nader"
He's not smart, a C student And that's after buying his way into school Beady eyes, and he's kinda dyslexic Can he read? No one's really quite sure He signs stuff and he executes people Maybe that's why, he doesn't have any friends Cocaine and a little drunk driving Doesn't matter, when you're the Commander in Chief.
Idiot son of an asshole He's the idiot son of an asshole Idiot son of an asshole He's the idiot son of an asshole
Put on some make-up, turn on the 8-Track, I'm putting a week back on the shelf, Suddenly I'm the President, of the United States, But then I woke up, and realized I'm still me.
He's too dumb, to eat pretzels, apparently smart enough to fix an election. Moved boldly into the White House, but most people voted against him. He likes naps, He really likes naptime, A couple of naps and then a nap and then he's ready for bed, He may be from Bush decent, but he's always gonna be the unpresident.
Idiot son of an asshole He's the idiot son of an asshole Idiot son of an asshole He's the idiot son of an asshole Idiot son of an asshole He's the idiot son of an asshole
The correct answer is not "Legalize Pot because Smoking is Legal."
You don't have to smoke pot, you can bake up some brownies and they achieve the same effect and are very healthy! The correct answer is "brownies are legal, therefore pot brownies should be legal too."
Good call. You can never every be completely secure. So don't grow any attachments to your possessions, the money you have in your bank account, the data on your hard drive, the cloths you are wearing, etc. In the blink of an eye you can lose them all. And there are no secrets, so don't do anything you wouldn't want anyone to know about.
Slashdot Mirror
I was a teenage hacker (or "cracker" if you want to nitpick). The funny thing is, I did it (crack systems) openly in front of my parents, they just didn't know what I was doing. One of my friends came over, and we were checking out this system that I had got into. He was all paranoid and kept hiding it when my parents walked by. My mom suspected something and thought we were downloading porno or something. He could've just left it and my parents wouldn't have had a clue what we were doing.
As for the other concern, porno. Of course, any healthy teenage boy will have gigs of porno stored away by age 15. Why try to stop this?
Totally offtopic... but, I am VERY glad that marijuana is illegal. I don't want my kids to be constantly bombarded with peer pressure at school and through the media that these filthy, unregulated, unhealthy, pschyo-retardant drugs and their irresponsible use is completely ok.
Guess what? Marijuana is easy for your kids to get. Its easier for them to get than alcohol. Why is that? Because its illegal, therefore a black market is created allowing anyone to buy and sell it. You're kids might even be selling it. A lot of kids do, its easy profit. I even know of one guy who sold it when he was a kid, but didn't actually use it. The black market that is created by it being illegal allows for this.
As for media exposure it already exists. Don't your kids watch movies, TV, and listen to music? Don't your kids use the internet or read other types of media? Don't your kids get taught about drugs through school drug education programs? Drug education programs are teaching your kids just how cool drugs can be, more than anyone else. The fact that these drugs are illegal makes them even more appealing to kids. It's "cool" to be a drug dealer to them. If you tell an 11-year-old that LSD will make you see what you hear, and hear what you see, (that's one of the things that I learned from drug education at that age) don't you think that child is going to be curious as to what that feels like?
Kids are curious. They know about this stuff, its not hidden from them. They will learn about it, and they will find it and try it. Just steer them away from the dangerous hard drugs, that's all you can hope to do.
It is not ok to waste yourself away in a stupor, believing to have expanded your mind when in reality you've done the opposite.
Spoken like someone who has either not used it, or does not know how to use it, or just didn't enjoy it. That's fine, but don't be so quick to say people are wasting themselves if you haven't the experience. I could go into great detail about how its useful (therapeutic value), but I won't bore you with all that detail (unless you're sincerely interested). You can easilly say anything is a waste. You can say meditation is a waste, or listening to music is a waste, or having fun is a waste, or seeing a mental health counselor is a waste.
Do you think alcohol should be illegal too? Do you think prohibition in the 1920's worked then? Do you think its working now?
Regardless of whether you think using marijuana is worthwhile, do you really think the creation of a black market and the crime that surrounds it is a good thing?
Do you think drug users are criminals? More specifically, do you think marijuana users are criminals?
I'd love to hear what you and anyone else has to say about this.
No, I don't want machinists or truck drivers on grass or crack cocaine (or programmers, just look at the disastrous products from Redmond).
Repeat after me: drug tests at work are good.
You've gotta be kidding. First fo all, the cocaine users will be able to pass drug tests if they know in advance, cocaine does not stay in your system very long (2-3 days I think). So a business that drug tests is likely to have a few (or a lot) cocaine users.
Its the marijuana smokers who are the victims of drug tests. Marijuana use can be detected a month after your last use, sometimes more.
I'm a programmer. So you think I should not able to use marijuana when I'm at home on my own free time? Please explain why you think this. Thankfully, I work for someone who is pro-legalization of marijauna (and thus is strongly against drug testing). It doesn't matter what I do in my spare time, as long as I produce quality work.
I don't want truck drivers to be drunk. But its not illegal for them to drink when they're not working.
I hope you're not one of those people who thinks that marijuana use is harmful and that it should be illegal. Like I've said many times before, cook it in butter, and eat it, and its very healthy. Its very unfortunate such a harmless and useful drug is illegal.
Yeah.. If the sun is really going to blow up and destroy the earth, I'd like to know in advance so I can get a group of hot women together and have unprotected sex with them.
then the greedy driver takes advantage and gets home before the cooperating drivers
2. Never be greedy (Golden Rule) -- that way you're looking out for the common good, and if most other people do the same, then the relatively few greedy jerks out there won't cause too much trouble.
I choose #2. I don't give a damn who gets home earlier, I just smoke a joint, crank up my high-end stereo, and enjoy my drive home. No rush, hell, I even stop at yellow lights when it makes sense, let people in, stop for pedestrians (especially if they are hot women), let the other person go at a 4-way stop when I'm not sure who got there first, etc. Though, I'm not the slow guy holding traffic up or anything.
Of course, I'd probably have to change my approach if I lived in a big city (where everyone is an extremely greedy driver), but living a medium-sized city having a little patience makes driving a lot simpler.
Snake venom is harmless if cooked and eaten, too. That doesn't make it harmless.
Yes it does, you just said its harmless if cooked and eaten.
Smoking spinach leaves is harmful, that doesn't make eating the plant harmful.
Sure, smoking anything is generally unhealthy. But you don't have to smoke marijuana to use it, you can cook it in butter and eat that and achieve the same effects as smoking (in some ways a better effect). Therefore it is just what Moby wanted: a harmless drug that is not addictive.
"I would love to see recreational drugs that aren't bad for you and that aren't addictive."
Drugs. The other white meat.
Already have that. Its called marijuana. And its harmless if cooked and eaten.
Yes, I understand the concept that anyone can get addicted to anything. But marijuana isn't inherently addictive.
Anyone want some pot brownies?
Linus Torvalds is not all programers wear leather and ride skate boards like the people in "Hackers" and don't know kung-fu like the people in the "The Matrix."
To hell with this CS degree.
Don't give up on that CS degree just yet. Remember, most hackers get blowjobs from hot women while they are hacking.
Granted, Linus ended up marrying the girl who was giving him head while hacking.. But that's not all bad.
What the heck has be been smoking?
Dude, I always eat a pot brownie (or pot muffin or pot tea) or two when I'm getting ready for a day of kernel hacking. Don't you?
Obviously it won't compile, I'm not going to write entire class for you.
ummm... duh? This didn't need to be stated. All she's good for is wacking off to the pics on her website. And that's fine by me. Anyone got (links to) any more pics of her? There were a few really hot ones that were on the her web page before, but are there no longer. Thanks.
If its worth the money, I'll buy. The problem with buying operating systems is not the price (at least not for me).
How do you feel about:
1) Pair programming
If my partner is a hot blonde who periodically sucks my dick while I code, I fucking love it.
2) Unit Tests upfront
Unit test my fucking cock!
3) Iterations
See #1 above regarding the hot blonde and her iterations of cock-gobbling.
Do you feel these are good things?
Yes, I like blowjobs.
Yeah, I remember that article. I used to crack UNIX/Linux systems exclusively. Why? Because they are way more interesting. Its much nicer to have control of a UNIX/Linux machine than some sorry little Win NT box. Besides, there's not much challenge in cracking Windows. Leave it for the worms...
This is hardly practical or applicable to the real world.
I disagree. A lot of vulnerabilities are found the way I described. They are only exploited after they've been found and the script kiddies know about it. Doing something illegal is hardly practical, in my opinion.
As for getting permission in advance, how many sysadmins do you know would give a hacker permission to try to get in through security?
I'm talking about hiring a professional to try and penetrate your network in order to determine where the vulnerabilities are. This is what is practical and applicable in the real world. I'm not talking about giving some random kid permission to screw with your network.
Before all of you get high & mighty and denounce what Adrian did, realize that his way of doing things is probably the only one that works.
You mean the one where you get caught?
I haven't been cracked yet.
The problem is not that you're going to get cracked. The problem is that one of your passwords may be sniffed out, and since you've used that password in more than one place, all those other places can be compromised. Every one of your accounts with sensitive information should all have unique passwords that you use nowhere else.
I'd also like to add, I don't think the term "white hat" can apply to people who illegally break into systems. A white hat would be someone who sets up his own systems and tests security on them, or has permission to work on a system. He would announce vulnerabilities when he finds them, usually contacting the author of the vulnerable software first. He's the true "good guy" who has done nothing wrong.
There's another term for someone who breaks into systems illegally, but does not do anything malicious, who may or may not do anything to help fix the problems. I believe they are called "grey hats." Hence the grey area here.
Of course the black hats are the true criminals, who are doing other illegal activities besides the break-in (stealing credit card numbers, desctruction/defacing of the systems, etc).
I agree that the analogy does not work. I think a better analogy is:
You happen to figure out the combination for the lock of my safe. You open it up, look at all the nudie photos of my girlfriends (and maybe watch one of the videos). So then you tell me you figured out the combination to my safe and opened it. I know what you've seen.
So say a someone breaks in but doesn't appear to do anything malicious. How do you know he didn't look at anything? How do you know he didn't read everyones personal mail, or log any credit card numbers or passwords? You don't. Sure, a true white hat should not be doing these things, but do you really trust someone to be a true white hat?
When I was a teenager, I used to gain unauthorized access to systems for fun, but never did anything malicious. I was a bit of a white hat, and got rid of other people who had cracked the systems. However, I was keenly aware of the fact that I could be arrested and charged heavilly for what I was doing. If you do something illegal, you can be charged for it. Sometimes the law isn't right, but I'm finding it hard to side on Adrian Lamo's case here.
I would love to go around cracking systems for fun and telling the admins how to fix the problems without having to worry about getting arrested. But this is simply not the case.
"I see no world peace 'cause of zealous armed forces
I eat no breath-mints 'cause their from de-hoofed horses
Now I can't believe; what an absolute failure
The president's laughing 'cause we voted for Nader"
-NOFX, "Franco Un-American"
Here you go:
"Idiot Son Of An Asshole" by NOFX
He's not smart, a C student
And that's after buying his way into school
Beady eyes, and he's kinda dyslexic
Can he read? No one's really quite sure
He signs stuff and he executes people
Maybe that's why, he doesn't have any friends
Cocaine and a little drunk driving
Doesn't matter, when you're the Commander in Chief.
Idiot son of an asshole
He's the idiot son of an asshole
Idiot son of an asshole
He's the idiot son of an asshole
Put on some make-up, turn on the 8-Track,
I'm putting a week back on the shelf,
Suddenly I'm the President, of the United States,
But then I woke up, and realized I'm still me.
He's too dumb, to eat pretzels, apparently smart enough to fix an election.
Moved boldly into the White House,
but most people voted against him.
He likes naps, He really likes naptime, A couple of naps and then a nap and then he's ready for bed,
He may be from Bush decent, but he's always gonna be the unpresident.
Idiot son of an asshole
He's the idiot son of an asshole
Idiot son of an asshole
He's the idiot son of an asshole
Idiot son of an asshole
He's the idiot son of an asshole
He's our president!
The correct answer is not "Legalize Pot because Smoking is Legal."
You don't have to smoke pot, you can bake up some brownies and they achieve the same effect and are very healthy! The correct answer is "brownies are legal, therefore pot brownies should be legal too."
Good call. You can never every be completely secure. So don't grow any attachments to your possessions, the money you have in your bank account, the data on your hard drive, the cloths you are wearing, etc. In the blink of an eye you can lose them all. And there are no secrets, so don't do anything you wouldn't want anyone to know about.
</paranoid>
Look over to your upper-right. See that? That's a camera. Logging your every keystroke and also capturing everything that comes up on your screen.