Correction: It is really ugly having the MS logo on my desk. If you've ever used an MS keyboard, you'll know that the quality of their hardware varies. A lot. The mouse is pretty good but the Internet Keyboard has one dead key (1 on the numpad) and a horrific feel.
Wow. I've never had that problem. Microsoft Wheelmouse Optical. Hooked up through USB. All references to M$ crossed out (it's embarassing, having an MS mouse. the keyboard is even worse.)
If I recall correctly from back when I used Opera (versions 5.12 through 6.05), it does that easily. No problems at all. Trust me, I used Opera back when I had dialup (limited to 28k because of my phone line), and if it hadn't displayed pages without having the images loaded yet, I would have sticked to IE.
There's also the option to disable images, or just display only the cached ones. Through a button on the toolbar, not buried under the options.
I would actually prefer a PC myself, linux is always a fun hobby.
What are the specs of the dell machine? Are you falling into that annoying megahertz myth or not?
If I had an XServe sitting here, I'd probably keep Mac OS X on it.
I don't think it's all that expensive, compared to other servers with the same capabilities.
Overall, if I had the money for a server and a colo, I'd get an XServe. That's not to say I don't enjoy trying to figure out why Apache won't serve (whatever) (whichever way). Great way to procrastinate. I just like the XServe's features, definitely better than running a server off my home machine. It's kind of annoying, since my computer is just 3 feet away from my bed, and downtime is not good. Constant whirring = need for caffeine = keeps the thinkgeek people's kids' college tuitions paid.
"You need some heavy crunch boxes so you tell you bosses we are gonna get 15 dualie G4's. or for the same price we can get 30 dualie p4's. Did i mention the space recquirewould probably be a third to house them? Where is the headless MAC?"
I'm pretty sure the XServe can be headless. And I don't think a dual p4 heavy duty crunch box is twice the price of a dual g4 xserve. mebbe a bit cheaper, providing you're running a free OS with free software on the PCs, but overall, I think that's a crock of poopie.
Since this is a study about cost (in/. fashion I haven't read the article), comparing upgrading a $hundreds-to-thousands every few years to a $0 OS every few months amplifies the cost. It's almost to upgrade from 2.0.32 to 2.0.33 (with service charges. make the CEO do it and it's only a few cents for the download). That's why most linux users have totally up-to-date systems, while loads of windows people are sticking to older versions. Among other reasons, but cost is still a biggie. (I'm on a RH8.0/Win98SE dual-boot for this very reason)
Also note that old config files and stuff should work between smaller releases, but good luck pulling the 2k registry and throwing it at XP, or whatever. In theory that (most of them at least) should work between, say, linux 2.4.4545 and 2.4. 4547.
Err, go play either Hot Date or Vacation, can't remember which expansion pack it was. Your sims can buy The Sims as gifts for other sims. I've tried it. It doesn't actually improve a sim's fun level, so I guess Maxis has really been working on the realism.
Well, I guess you might have better luck than me, especially if you've had experience. I tried Gentoo about 2 weeks after my failed, almost windows-like mandrake install, which was my first linux install EVER (excluding that old copy of linux4windows that kernel paniced on boot), so that's why I relate to the newbies, and why I object to advocating Gentoo to them.
I'd be totally in favor of using Gentoo were I more experienced, or if this was a server I'm talking about.
"I've been in a much worse situation courtesy of Redmond with their dependency hell which forced an operating system reinstall."
You're one to talk. The windows install I had that caused me to try Linux was so incredibly crashy, I kept opening up the case to check for a disconnected CPU fan, or a dead rat on the mobo (please see the iBook infested by Ants story comments for more information). And multi-tasking was a nightmare.
Personnally, I'm going to stick to experimenting with knoppix until I can manuever my way around the command line. Maybe I'll find a way to get my SMC PC Card NIC working under Linux.
"* On the surface, it's just a perfectly user-friendly demo disk. Power on, CD in, KDE up. Now you may or may not like KDE (I don't like it), but it gives an instant "slick" interface that can easily hold its own against the whole windos world."
Don't forget the desktop= option at the boot menu. My P1 laptop can just barely handle KDE, so I make sure to use desktop=icewm. There's also (*checks*) gnome, icewm, fluxbox, xfce, wmaker, and twm, plus runlevel 2 (text mode). That's directly from the boot help menu.
Damn, too bad that won't work for me. I've tried that so many times for when my 5-year-old, hyperactive nephew comes over, but whenever I disconnect the power button (which is a big blue one, very appealing to tykes, in my experience), the system dies instantly.
Here's a big variable in stability: how you use the computer. I have a tendancy, like many geeks, to do things from command lines, and I often choose regedit over tweakUI. And then there's how much more software I run. A kid's going to be running an IM client or two, IE, and maybe a game, while I'm going to be running Kazaa Lite (current participation/karma level: Guru, 270), Apache 2.0.43, Winamp 2.81, No-IP DUC, Palm Hotsync, and about 15 tabs in Mozilla. Bigass difference.
Under my average use, the OS lasts about one to two months. Any more, and things will bog down and BSOD to the same extent that made me try Linux in the first place.
I use Windows 98 SE myself, and linux as a hobby, mainly booted off the CD so I can't mess things up (Klaus Knopper (The KNOPPIX guy) sure as hell knew what he was doing when he modded Debian).
I think I used the wrong wording... I meant experience, not intelligence.
I'd agree that a faster distro is always better. That's why I don't use Mandrake 9.0, or Windows 98.
Explain that there's a faster way, just explain to the people who have experience. I believe that car analogy works for this too. The one with the fast but really, really hard to control Ferrari (Gentoo), and the slow but much, much easier to drive Ford Taurus (Red Hat). No one should recommend a Ferrari to someone who's just learning to drive. That's my entire point.
"Haven't you ever tried to get an operating system up and running with inadequate documentation, a lot of unwritten dependancies and nothing but the command line?"
I don't see what you mean. I've tried that, yes. That's what happened when I tried to install Gentoo.
That's fine, I just don't see why people come in and recommend a complex operating system to a linux newbie.
If Gentoo had a fully GUIed and (insert word for not being so user-intelligence dependant) installation process, I'd be fine with you guys recommending it to a linux newbie.
Just, please, try and restrict your evangelism to people who know how to run Gentoo.
Just be afraid when a bill is passed to push that national ID card as an injectable tag behind your neck. That's when you will find FAQ's on the internet how to build tin foil hats.
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Correction: It is really ugly having the MS logo on my desk. If you've ever used an MS keyboard, you'll know that the quality of their hardware varies. A lot. The mouse is pretty good but the Internet Keyboard has one dead key (1 on the numpad) and a horrific feel.
I need to find me a Model M. A real keyboard.
Wow. I've never had that problem. Microsoft Wheelmouse Optical. Hooked up through USB. All references to M$ crossed out (it's embarassing, having an MS mouse. the keyboard is even worse.)
If I recall correctly from back when I used Opera (versions 5.12 through 6.05), it does that easily. No problems at all. Trust me, I used Opera back when I had dialup (limited to 28k because of my phone line), and if it hadn't displayed pages without having the images loaded yet, I would have sticked to IE.
There's also the option to disable images, or just display only the cached ones. Through a button on the toolbar, not buried under the options.
Myself, I'm reading it because it's sunday night and I have nothing else to do. Everything is slow today.
I had no idea what Las Ketchup was, and Gareth?, but if you don't recognize Shakira or Avril Lavigne, yes, you are out of touch.
Bravo. I spent the last of my mod points last night, but if I still had a point left...
+1, Insightful
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of wireless-enabled people!
60 Seconds? SIXTY seconds? Wow. That's... like... scary. I recently spent 2 HOURS talking to my ISP's tech support, trying to get my DSL back online.
I would actually prefer a PC myself, linux is always a fun hobby.
What are the specs of the dell machine? Are you falling into that annoying megahertz myth or not?
If I had an XServe sitting here, I'd probably keep Mac OS X on it.
I don't think it's all that expensive, compared to other servers with the same capabilities.
Overall, if I had the money for a server and a colo, I'd get an XServe. That's not to say I don't enjoy trying to figure out why Apache won't serve (whatever) (whichever way). Great way to procrastinate. I just like the XServe's features, definitely better than running a server off my home machine. It's kind of annoying, since my computer is just 3 feet away from my bed, and downtime is not good. Constant whirring = need for caffeine = keeps the thinkgeek people's kids' college tuitions paid.
I am so lost in my own arguements right now.
Sorry, I browse at a 2 threshold, didn't notice the other posts.
"You need some heavy crunch boxes so you tell you bosses we are gonna get 15 dualie G4's. or for the same price we can get 30 dualie p4's. Did i mention the space recquirewould probably be a third to house them? Where is the headless MAC?"
I'm pretty sure the XServe can be headless. And I don't think a dual p4 heavy duty crunch box is twice the price of a dual g4 xserve. mebbe a bit cheaper, providing you're running a free OS with free software on the PCs, but overall, I think that's a crock of poopie.
Since this is a study about cost (in /. fashion I haven't read the article), comparing upgrading a $hundreds-to-thousands every few years to a $0 OS every few months amplifies the cost. It's almost to upgrade from 2.0.32 to 2.0.33 (with service charges. make the CEO do it and it's only a few cents for the download). That's why most linux users have totally up-to-date systems, while loads of windows people are sticking to older versions. Among other reasons, but cost is still a biggie. (I'm on a RH8.0/Win98SE dual-boot for this very reason)
Also note that old config files and stuff should work between smaller releases, but good luck pulling the 2k registry and throwing it at XP, or whatever. In theory that (most of them at least) should work between, say, linux 2.4.4545 and 2.4. 4547.
Man. I dunno why, but I'm crying at that. It's like the server's last cry for help. And then the connection is lost. :-(
Err, go play either Hot Date or Vacation, can't remember which expansion pack it was. Your sims can buy The Sims as gifts for other sims. I've tried it. It doesn't actually improve a sim's fun level, so I guess Maxis has really been working on the realism.
Lock it up in a bigger case? Mmmm....kay.
I've been wondering about putting a key inside the case, to disable either the mobo's power connection, or the power button wiring.
Well, I guess you might have better luck than me, especially if you've had experience. I tried Gentoo about 2 weeks after my failed, almost windows-like mandrake install, which was my first linux install EVER (excluding that old copy of linux4windows that kernel paniced on boot), so that's why I relate to the newbies, and why I object to advocating Gentoo to them.
I'd be totally in favor of using Gentoo were I more experienced, or if this was a server I'm talking about.
"I've been in a much worse situation courtesy of Redmond with their dependency hell which forced an operating system reinstall."
You're one to talk. The windows install I had that caused me to try Linux was so incredibly crashy, I kept opening up the case to check for a disconnected CPU fan, or a dead rat on the mobo (please see the iBook infested by Ants story comments for more information). And multi-tasking was a nightmare.
Personnally, I'm going to stick to experimenting with knoppix until I can manuever my way around the command line. Maybe I'll find a way to get my SMC PC Card NIC working under Linux.
"* On the surface, it's just a perfectly user-friendly demo disk. Power on, CD in, KDE up. Now you may or may not like KDE (I don't like it), but it gives an instant "slick" interface that can easily hold its own against the whole windos world."
Don't forget the desktop= option at the boot menu. My P1 laptop can just barely handle KDE, so I make sure to use desktop=icewm. There's also (*checks*) gnome, icewm, fluxbox, xfce, wmaker, and twm, plus runlevel 2 (text mode). That's directly from the boot help menu.
Information on tin foil hats:
http://www.zapatopi.net/afdb.html
Damn, too bad that won't work for me. I've tried that so many times for when my 5-year-old, hyperactive nephew comes over, but whenever I disconnect the power button (which is a big blue one, very appealing to tykes, in my experience), the system dies instantly.
Here's a big variable in stability: how you use the computer. I have a tendancy, like many geeks, to do things from command lines, and I often choose regedit over tweakUI. And then there's how much more software I run. A kid's going to be running an IM client or two, IE, and maybe a game, while I'm going to be running Kazaa Lite (current participation/karma level: Guru, 270), Apache 2.0.43, Winamp 2.81, No-IP DUC, Palm Hotsync, and about 15 tabs in Mozilla. Bigass difference.
Under my average use, the OS lasts about one to two months. Any more, and things will bog down and BSOD to the same extent that made me try Linux in the first place.
I use Windows 98 SE myself, and linux as a hobby, mainly booted off the CD so I can't mess things up (Klaus Knopper (The KNOPPIX guy) sure as hell knew what he was doing when he modded Debian).
I think I used the wrong wording... I meant experience, not intelligence.
I'd agree that a faster distro is always better. That's why I don't use Mandrake 9.0, or Windows 98.
Explain that there's a faster way, just explain to the people who have experience. I believe that car analogy works for this too. The one with the fast but really, really hard to control Ferrari (Gentoo), and the slow but much, much easier to drive Ford Taurus (Red Hat). No one should recommend a Ferrari to someone who's just learning to drive. That's my entire point.
"Haven't you ever tried to get an operating system up and running with inadequate documentation, a lot of unwritten dependancies and nothing but the command line?"
I don't see what you mean. I've tried that, yes. That's what happened when I tried to install Gentoo.
That's fine, I just don't see why people come in and recommend a complex operating system to a linux newbie.
If Gentoo had a fully GUIed and (insert word for not being so user-intelligence dependant) installation process, I'd be fine with you guys recommending it to a linux newbie.
Just, please, try and restrict your evangelism to people who know how to run Gentoo.
Protect Your Brain
Well, that HTML didn't work:
There's already one out there: