DIRECTV Broadband Shuts Down

Broadband shut down? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:32 · Score: 3, Funny

I guess it's "last post" for them!

Well... by craenor · 2002-12-13 10:32 · Score: 5, Funny

For those of us who do tech support and sometimes run into DirecTV broadband issues, can I just say, yippee!

Re:Well... by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:50 · Score: 5, Interesting

For those of us who do tech support and sometimes run into DirecTV broadband issues, can I just say, yippee!

What issues? In general, the service rocked - static IP, standard Ethernet with DHCP (with USB also available, bleh), easy setup (if you don't like the installer or don't run Windows, just point your browser to http://10.5.1.2/ and enter your phone number, and the gateway configures itself with all your settings).

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Well... by McFly69 · 2002-12-13 10:54 · Score: 1

You work for them right? The Telocity modem/fake routers that we haev to use.. can you hitn me how to mod it so I cna use the routing capabilities? I am goign to assuem they will let me keep it. what is yoru input on this?

--

NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...
Re:Well... by Froze · 2002-12-13 11:05 · Score: 5, Funny

You work for them right? The Telocity modem/fake routers that we haev to use.. can you hitn me how to mod it so I cna use the routing capabilities? I am goign to assuem they will let me keep it. what is yoru input on this?

My take on this post is that you need to cut back on caffiene ;-) Either that or teach you left hand to keep up with your right hand.

--
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:11 · Score: 0

off
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:12 · Score: 0

This might make your life easier. But what about the employees of DirectTV Broadband or the subscribers?

Looks like the dot com implosion continues.
Re:Well... by grumpygrodyguy · 2002-12-13 11:14 · Score: 2

Yes, I've got thier service too. Compared to Bell South it's been a dream.

Kinda creepy, I had no idea this was happening =(. I just wanted to log in to Slashdot to read some news...now this. For those of us who run a home business on broadband services like DSL, this is scary news indeed.

I hope it works out =(.

-Signed
More pessimistic about the future every minute.

--
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Re:Well... by McFly69 · 2002-12-13 11:15 · Score: 2

Forgot to spell check :(

Should say...

You work for them right? Concerning the Telocity modem/fake routers that we use currently, for the services, can you tell us how we can mod them in order to use its routing capabilities? I am going to assume, that directv will lets the consumers keep them. What are your thoughts on this?

--

NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...
Re:Well... by craenor · 2002-12-13 11:22 · Score: 2

Some wireless networking issues and a connectivity issue for gamers, mainly gamers in persistent world games, like the mmorpg's. DIRECTV was by no means the worst, but they were far removed from the best.
Re:Well... by Xoro · 2002-12-13 11:22 · Score: 1

You work for them right? The Telocity modem/fake routers that we haev to use.. can you hitn me how to mod it so I cna use the routing capabilities? I am goign to assuem they will let me keep it. what is yoru input on this?

My take on this post is that you need to cut back on caffiene ;-) Either that or teach you left hand to keep up with your right hand.

I thought it just meant he was a Welshman.

--
Kill, Tux, kill!
Re:Well... by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 11:23 · Score: 3, Interesting

You work for them right? Concerning the Telocity modem/fake routers that we use currently, for the services, can you tell us how we can mod them in order to use its routing capabilities? I am going to assume, that directv will lets the consumers keep them. What are your thoughts on this?

I'd assume they'll let everyone keep them - they're basically worthless on any other network, and why pay for the return shipping? They're not fake routers, they're real routers - you'll notice you're on your own 4-IP subnet. It's the option to enable NAT that you're interested in, which I won't tell you how to enable. Not that it matters much, but I do still have a job.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Well... by DarkKnightRadick · 2002-12-13 11:29 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I used to do tech support for DirecTV Satellite TV (via West Telecommunications, Huntsville, AL (please, someone nuke that building, they are the worst employer in the world!)) and can honestly say, I'm not freaking surprised. The low budget tech support I was forced to give makes me gag everytime I get spammed by a DirecTV e-mail.

--
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Re:Well... by IndependentVik · 2002-12-13 11:35 · Score: 1

Either that or teach you left hand to keep up with your right hand.

So from now on when he's "looking" at pr0n he'll have to switchoff every now and again?

--
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:46 · Score: 0

i don't know about anyone else, but i'm buying myself a flash reader/writer and i'm gonna hack that bitch to run Linux. i'll port a floppy router to PPC and get all the chipset information i can about the HW, and at some point it should work. in the process i'll also capture their little config file as further research into the "crappy config capping" section of broadband services.

if that doesn't work, i'll do the same to my Linksys router and attach an old ADSL modem to it.
Re:Well... by The+Kow · 2002-12-13 12:03 · Score: 1

You could probably do a factory reset on the thing and that will often reset the pw to something basic like 'admin'.

Beware though, if you're not using a modem provided by DirecTV, your ISP may not be very interested in hearing that you've been playing with your router.

--
Moo
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:18 · Score: 0

Agreed. The price and service were good, the sales department was ABSOLUTE SHIT, but other than that I had little problems from them.
Re:Well... by Mr+Teddy+Bear · 2002-12-13 12:48 · Score: 1

Either that or teach you left hand to keep up with your right hand.

Common mistake, but it seems you two are about equal... each only got one sentence with no errors. Not his fault you stopped at 2. ;-)
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:51 · Score: 0

interesting...
Re:Well... by pyite · 2002-12-13 12:57 · Score: 1

Oh my goodness, it is ridiculously easy. Do a search on Google Groups and you'll find all the information. If you decide you don't want it later, you have to hard reset it and start all over though. Bascially, you get into the admin page and turn ON Connect & Protect. Bingo, you have NAT.

--
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 14:01 · Score: 0

As a former Microsoft Tech Support Monkey I think I can answer this one. (Consumer software is all outsourced to Convergys etc.)

I agree with Phroggy, I never had an issue with DriecTV broadband. I just assumed it was not the problem and worked from there fixing wahtever problem came up. I was one of the few techs that even understood TCP/IP. Offical company policy was that we did not support DirecTV and any other type of one way down (sat), another way up (POTS).

The VAST majority of techs just used this policy to to flog customers to DirecTV support. Most techs actually liked getting these calls because it looked great on their stats. If the customer was lucky they would call back and get a tech that would actualy diagnose and fix the problem without doing a Paralell install.

I really should write an article about my adventures in that hell called convergys.
Re:Well... by rolfwind · 2002-12-13 14:31 · Score: 0

Microsoft has tech support personnel?

And here I always thought that it was just an automated voice computer running a circular link list program!
Re:Well... by JWSmythe · 2002-12-13 14:37 · Score: 2

Funny, I've never heard a single complaint from a DirectTV DSL user.. Lots from AOL people who can't spell their passwords, and dialup users who can't understand why their 28.8 modem is slow 400 miles from the closest city.. Oh and Adelphia, who for about 6 months to a year randomly blocked our networks, but would never admit to it.

With like 4 million free, I thought we've heard every complaint out there.

I guess it doesn't really matter now, they're gone, but what were their complaints? Slow speeds? Long latency? Disconnects? I had read about long latency for those users, but we never manged to get a complaint.. I guess most people who could detect it (err.. like ping. stupid users.) would know enough to call their ISP before us. :)

--
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Re:Well... by sloveless · 2002-12-13 15:59 · Score: 1

Somebody mod this guy up, already. Laughed my ass off at this one. (I, too, was a Convergys flunky for a very, very short period of time.)
Re:Well... by The+Wicked+Priest · 2002-12-13 16:54 · Score: 1

This is about their DSL service, NOT the satellite Internet services, which are known as "DirecPC" (one-way) and "DirecWay" (two-way). Those will continue to operate. Fat lot of good it will do me, though. :-( The DSL service was miles apart from the sat services: it had no bandwidth caps, and was very easy to set up on any kind of system (the modem did everything; you could use a simple web browser to set it up).

--
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Re:Well... by Penguin's+Advocate · 2002-12-13 16:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually, DirecTV DSL was by far the best...It was the only DSL service in my experience (which is extensive) with which I have never had a problem. It not only worked better than advertised, it was also NEVER EVER down, not a single time in the 2 years that I've been using DirecTV dsl have I had an interruption of service. I got much higher bandwidth than advertised and it wasn't one of those worthless PPPoE services. Also, no one should ever complain about the router/modem thing, it was awesome too.

--
Frag 'em all...
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 19:13 · Score: 1, Informative

In general, the service rocked...

No, in general the service was rocky.

Three months to install.

First bill was double billed because they openned two accounts in my name but only provided service on one.

Billed full monthly amount for the first 20 days of service.

Refused to assist with DSL problems when Rythums was going out of business making the DSL unusable but also refused to provide free dial up until Rythums was offically out of business.

The gateway's web server at 10.5.1.2 violated HTTP standard by issuing an empty "Content-type" in the header causing some web browsers to fail including earlier version of Mozilla.

Email service continually suffered from problems.

Calls to technical support commonly required waiting over an hour on hold.

Policy to not call customers back and to refuse providing updates for 72 hours when the customer calls back even if the tech already closed the call out for a continuing issue.

During the last three months I got DirecTV DSL, the connection stopped from 2am-6am every night. Only twice around 4am did unplugging and plugging back in the gateway do anything, every other time the connection continued to remain down. DirecTV still billed for the full month since it was "an intermitted sync issue." The problem was never fixed over the three month despite the call being closed by several techs.

After cancellation, took over three months and a dozen requests to get them to send the return label for the gateway to the correct address (they kept adding an apartment number to an address of a house so the post office refused to deliver the label).

Charged $500 to my credit card for a "free" gateway.

Took over three months to refund my credit card in violation of Mastercard merchent contract which states that the refund must be provided withen 30 days of recieving return goods.

Geeee... with how much the DSL service "rocked," I wonder if I should try their TV "service." Well, if I was into the HU emulation scene then maybe but naaaaa. I'm no longer a baby that needs my cradle "rocked." I would prefer to get *service.* Something that you DirecTV employees do not understand.
Re:Well... by JeremyALogan · 2002-12-13 23:11 · Score: 0

well I've moved twice since having them (both times having to get a bellsouth guy to come "fix the lines" and get a new IP address... grr) and they still haven't picked up the modems... I have a bit of a surplus... they tol me exactly when the guy would come for them and exactly what to write on the boxes and they just never showed... wonder what they're worth on ebay now-a-days

--
Jeremy Logan's Website.

this is no good by Merlin_80000 · 2002-12-13 10:33 · Score: 4, Informative

DirecTV is the only residential provider in my area that provides static IP, hopefully i'll run across somewhere else. btw the support phone number has a message basically saying that they are shutting down within the next 30 days and to please not call them anymore.

--
Please keep in my that my ADHD keeps me a little scatter brained and I sometimes can't focus long enough to

Re:this is no good by SquadBoy · 2002-12-13 10:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Just so you know I had to go with cable where I'm at (I really wanted speakeasy) so just a couple of suggestions. You might try speakeasy. They are *really* good from what I've been told. Also if cable is in your area they provide DHCP but I've had the same address for ~3 months now and the tech who installed told me that they basically have leases that last for so long that unless you are offline for a really long time you will almost never lose the address.

--

Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Re:this is no good by BigBir3d · 2002-12-13 10:50 · Score: 2

Speakeasy is growing in area. Check them out. They have plans for 2 IP addresses right now.
Re:this is no good by pyros · 2002-12-13 11:00 · Score: 3, Informative

I'll attest to that. I had great service from them in Minnesota. Full DNS hosting fees were a little on the high side I thought, but hosting it myself on the connection they gave would not have been a problem. They're very *nix friendly. They used to have a few wisecracks on their website about people wanting to run NT Server. :) I got a pretty good vibe from MegaPath too, but I never actually had service from them.

The CO servicing me is too outdated even though I'm in range, so I'm stuck with a crappy cable service (I actually find myself eager for Time Warner to buy out the community contract so I can get roadrunner).
Re:this is no good by Merlin_80000 · 2002-12-13 11:00 · Score: 1

Well here the cable internet is cox and from what i've seen they use some weird system and IPs change pretty frequently. We have another dsl provider that has static IP for work i'm gonna try and talk to my boss about using it as a router and putting my server up at the office. we'll just have to see.

--
Please keep in my that my ADHD keeps me a little scatter brained and I sometimes can't focus long enough to
Re:this is no good by squiggleslash · 2002-12-13 11:02 · Score: 5, Informative

Check out Earthlink. They seem to be everywhere where other broadband providers are, and they also do static IP (it's a small additional cost, but it's available.) They also have quite a good support policy - you're allowed to do your own networking, use non-Windows/Mac, etc, but if you do then they will not provide telephone support - you're assumed to know what you're doing.
I will not say they're perfect, they're PPPoE, and the static IP I have seems to break every time I lose the connection (typically I can't get it back for 15 minutes), and then there's the Hubbardist connections, but there's nothing so bad about the service I'd not recommend them to others.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:this is no good by twisty7867 · 2002-12-13 11:08 · Score: 1

I can't believe that if you can get DirecTV you can't get another provider... since their lines are probably carried by Covad or Worldcom. I have a Worldcom line from Speakeasy, which I can't say enough good things about. It's pricy, but I got free Xbox (or PS2)for signing up, free setup after rebate, 2 static IP's, and a host of other features. Good luck!
Re:this is no good by espresso_now · 2002-12-13 11:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Well here the cable internet is cox and from what i've seen they use some weird system and IPs change pretty frequently.

That's weird, I've had Cox.net for about a year now and my IP has changed only two times.
1) IP was "A" then I changed NICs and it became "B", after a switched back to original NIC it became "A" once again.
2) I moved.

--
Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass. -oqti
Re:this is no good by pyros · 2002-12-13 11:17 · Score: 2

Speakeasy actually offered [reasonably] limited support for linux when I was a customer. I say reasonably limited because they would try and work through configuring your machine but made it clear not to expect them to be familiar with every distro's methodology.
Re:this is no good by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:48 · Score: 0

i hear earthlink is quite crappy, and has a low rating on dslreports.com. i'd suggest a local telco over earthlink. seriously.
Re:this is no good by grumpygrodyguy · 2002-12-13 11:49 · Score: 2

They have plans for 2 IP addresses right now.

I just spoke with them on the phone(I need to switch too because I'm with directv). They say that each static IP is $2.99 more to your monthtly cost. I run 3 machines so that means 3 statics. For me it comes to $49.99 + $2.99 + $2.99. $55.97 a month.

Directv uses a router/hub so you can set up your network via NAT. This is what I've been doing, and it cost me an extra $10 for the NAT/firewall(they call it the connect/protect plan). Totalling at $59.99 a month.

So actually Speakeay is a much better deal. It costs less, and you get 3 static IPs(rather than just 1). The only problem is that it's $49.99 for 608up/128down instead of 1.5Mup/128down that directv offered. So for the big file traders this might not be the way to go. But I think I can live with 608kbps.

Also I have a suspicion that speakeasy has better latency/ping times. Can anyone confirm that?

--
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Re:this is no good by l810c · 2002-12-13 12:18 · Score: 2

I'd be careful with Earthlink, they are moving to 128k upload. I was told that I was getting 384 best effort, but DSLReports speed tests show about 128. I called to bitch and they said I could switch to business(which I would have), but I may be down 1 month(Can't do that right now. I have both Bellsouth and Earthlink(Provisioned through Bellsouth) DSL. Bellsouth gets me 1280/220 consistently, Earhtlink is 1050/128. These phone lines are in the same outer jacket. Soon I'll be ordering another phone line & Covad and dropping Earthlink.
Re:this is no good by techluvr · 2002-12-13 12:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

I use Earthlink and haven't had any problems with them. I used to use Telocity which got bought out by Direct TV. When this happened Direct TV informed me that they could not give me service in my area. After some shopping around I hooked up with Earthlink.
After using Earthlink for a few months Direct TV started billing me again for service. They had decided to hook me up again without telling me and then billing me for service that I was not using. They did this to me several times. I ended up having to raise hell to get this fixed.
I've called Earthlink a couple of times for support and they're rock solid. The only drawbacks are that you have to pay an extra $15 to have a static ip address on top of the $50 per month.
The only thing that sucks about the news concerning Direct TV is that people will be loosing their jobs and that's the last thing this crappy economy needs.
Re:this is no good by the_2nd_coming · 2002-12-13 12:58 · Score: 1

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

I have TW, they will raise your prices on everything.

I have to pay $55 to get cable internet and I pay 52 for basic cable.

Comcast offers internet for $35 and basic cable for $25.

WOW (SBCs cable company in our area) offers cable for $23 and internet for about $30.

TW pays off our municipality (conspericy theory) becasue that is the only way that any sain township would even think of keeping them around in the face of cheaper alternatives. hell TW raised Basic cable's prices by 4 bucks a month (due to take effect in Jan.) and lowered the price of sevices only available from Digital, all in the name of offering more services to there customers...yeah...what ever, I can not even get premium stations on Anolog any longer, I have to pay the, NOW, 8 dollors extra (used to be $12 before our goudging) to get digital service THEN pay the 20 dollor extra for a 4 screen HBO so I can watch the Sopranos and OZ. Thank god my sister-in-law gets HBO as part of her basic cable package.

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:this is no good by the_2nd_coming · 2002-12-13 13:00 · Score: 1

not to mention you get unlimited dial up roaming with them as well when you purchase a broad band solution.

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:this is no good by the_2nd_coming · 2002-12-13 13:03 · Score: 1

are there realy any thing ear local telcos since the early 80's break up of ma' bell any more?

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:this is no good by squiggleslash · 2002-12-13 14:09 · Score: 2

Kinda. It's 20 hours, then you pay a per hour charge which is capped at the monthly dialup account rate (ie the worst you could end up paying per month is a fraction over $20, in addition to your normal DSL charges)
Another thing I liked about them was a fairly unrestrictive policy on how you use your account. From what I can tell there are no blocked ports, there's no rule about "servers", the entire attitude seems to be "You're getting a permanent connection to the Internet, no catches", which is what I want. I'm not a heavy bandwidth user, but being able to manage my own email, access and administer my machine remotely, and occasionally transfer a file using the Web from my machine is stuff I find useful.
It's sad I should be saying that as a selling point, but every other Slashdot article seems to be about how Meganationalcorp ISP is imposing some draconian new ToCs dictating your OS, the software you're allowed to run, what ports you can open, what ports you can connect to, etc, etc.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:this is no good by noewun · 2002-12-13 14:11 · Score: 1

I think your Earthlink experience depends on the infrastructure in your area. In NYC I have never had a problem with them, and the only time my line went down was when a construction crew in the city hit some Verzon lines, which wasn't Earthlink's fault.
I even get a refund from them when they forgot I signed up with a special deal!

--
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Re:this is no good by doonesbury · 2002-12-13 16:20 · Score: 2

I talked to Earthlink after I found out about DTDSL going under today, and found that they're having problems with doling out static IPs -- in certian areas, they've run out. I found out that I literally had to wait for someone else to lose their IP in order to get one. Plus, on top of all that, the static IP is an extra $15/month.

--
Whatever you do... don't read this.
Re:this is no good by jafac · 2002-12-13 16:46 · Score: 2

Yeah, I signed up for Earthlink DSL about two years ago. About two weeks later, after I had not heard word one from them, I signed up for PacBell DSL. About 6 weeks later, I got an email from Earthlink saying that they were still checking to see if DSL was available in my area.

I still get an email from them every 6-8 weeks telling me that they're still checking.

They sure haven't convinved me that they're actively competing for my business.

Better still, another local provider was also offering DSL for TWICE what PacBell was offering it for. Very comparable ancilliary services (which I don't use, by the way).

So, anyway, if there are any marketing geniuses at PacBell, (or Earthlink for that matter) reading this, take it at face value.

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Re:this is no good by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 18:08 · Score: 0

>

Losing the connection like that? I have the static, had the same prob for a day or so, then found out that they're supposed to give a slightly different login name for the static IP folks. it serves as a sort of 'bridge' so the server doesn't freak when it sees a different number in the client-side software.

and the hubbardist thing, christ i need to read more [if thats possible] are we talking about L.Ron? travolta's guys?
Re:this is no good by slam+smith · 2002-12-13 18:48 · Score: 1

I ended up having to dispute the charges to my card. They had no intention as far as I could tell to fix it.

--
My Weblog
Re:this is no good by guacamole · 2002-12-13 19:46 · Score: 2

But no matter how you look at it, speakeasy is more expensive than the Directv's basic service.

With DirecTV I get 1500/128Mbps ADSL, 1 static IP and a simple DNS hosting service. Last time I checked, for the same price you can only get a twice as slow RADSL service from Speakeasy and no static IP.
Re:this is no good by patter · 2002-12-13 22:54 · Score: 1

...problem is that it's $49.99 for 608up/128down instead of 1.5Mup/128down that directv offered....

s/up/down/g; ?

At least I thought DSL was usually faster downstream.. I could be wrong, or staring at too much Perl lately :D

--
-- If at first you do succeed, try to hide your astonishment. -- Harry F. Banks
Re:this is no good by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 03:07 · Score: 0

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to contact support and find out if that's what's causing my problem. I just have the usual username@earthlink.net login.
Earthlink's founder, Sky Dayton, believes that a certain 1940s/1950s scifi author is a prophet, etc. I'm not aware of any other links of the company to that group, and I suspect with Earthlink growing to be one of the largest ISPs in the US it would be pretty difficult to make it a front for any religion. Indeed, I learnt about it when the link of the founder to that group was causing a lot of controversy a few years ago, so to some extent they have the spotlight on them to make sure they don't start doing anything wierd even if they wanted to.
Re:this is no good by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 04:09 · Score: 0

depends what you are willing to pay for... just like anything else.
Re:this is no good by the_2nd_coming · 2002-12-14 08:34 · Score: 1

not there new deals. on my able connection through earth link it says "Unlimited Dial-up roaming access"

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:this is no good by johnpaul191 · 2002-12-14 10:37 · Score: 2

this really sucks. we have had DirecTV DSL for about a year or more and had ZERO problems. it was an incredible change from the spotty Verizon DSL service we had here (West Philadelphia, PA). besides the bonus of static IP, supporting hosting, multiple machines bla bla bla... the modem was a good step above the Verizon one we had (Still have somewhere?). you just logged into it with a web browser to setup (all platforms!) as well as get real time status from it.

i guess we'll see what happens in the next few eeks... otherwise i guess Earthlink is the only option. Verizon burned this bridge, and our cable company is so shady i will not trust the internet connection tot hem. ARGH!
Re:this is no good by squiggleslash · 2002-12-14 15:38 · Score: 1

Where does it say this? If I go to www.earthlink.com, click on Earthlink DSL, and then to Features and Benefits it just says "20 hours of dial up access". I can't see any other references to dial up other than that...
I'd love to be in the wrong about this.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.

More Info by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:33 · Score: 5, Informative

I dunno why they posted this under "Ask Slashdot", but here's some more info:

DSLReports (forum)
DirecTV DSL (info for customers)
Press Release from Hughes (parent company of DirecTV)

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;

Re:More Info by JVert · 2002-12-13 11:30 · Score: 1

You overlooked the last question, The whole point of this post is finding this guy a new job.
Re:More Info by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:05 · Score: 0

That's either a joke or an oversight on your part.

Phroggy submitted this story! He IS the guy looking for the job. :)

Horses Mouth by Apathy+costs+bills · 2002-12-13 10:33 · Score: 5, Informative

Well, here's their customer FAQ that explains a lot.

--
Kill Trolls Dead. Here's

How sudden? by benzapp · 2002-12-13 10:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

I swear I saw advertisements for DirecTV DSL just the other day. Is this sudden or what?

--
I don't read or respond to AC posts

Re:How sudden? by teamhasnoi · 2002-12-13 10:39 · Score: 3, Funny

I saw them *last night* while watching 'Taken'. Perhaps that's what's happened!
Re:How sudden? by User+956 · 2002-12-13 10:51 · Score: 2

I swear I saw advertisements for DirecTV DSL just the other day. Is this sudden or what?

TV ads are booked weeks (often months) in advance. This decision could have been in the works for a while.

--
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Re:How sudden? by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

I swear I saw advertisements for DirecTV DSL just the other day. Is this sudden or what?

Yes, it was VERY sudden. Rumors and speculation was sort of going around this week (directors disappearing for off-site meetings, hmmm...) but before this morning, nobody had any idea it would happen like this. The marketing department is gone now, of course, but wouldn't have pulled the ads before today (if they have yet).

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:How sudden? by gl4ss · 2002-12-13 11:07 · Score: 2

check the links on other posts.

seems like they did it scissor style.. *snap*.

some poor sap was doing a sales call when phone was cut off *poof*, talk about feeling stupid.

now, that does sound a little odd though, not like things should be done.. things like this don't come out of the blue.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:How sudden? by DaytonCIM · 2002-12-13 11:18 · Score: 1

I saw that ad last night as well. I bet they'll run the same ad tonight. Kind of funny. :)
Re:How sudden? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:21 · Score: 0

How do yoiu think those of us w/o jobs feel aobut how sudden it was
Re:How sudden? by mstyne · 2002-12-13 11:51 · Score: 0, Flamebait

We think you should have probably not gotten a job with a shitty cutrate DSL provider, you tosser.

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mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
Re:How sudden? by CrazyDuke · 2002-12-13 11:56 · Score: 1

"Rumors and speculation was sort of going around this week (directors disappearing for off-site meetings, hmmm...) . . ."

I know that I am completely without proof and that this is solely opinion and conjecture based on status quo big business tactics, but... I take it these where stock selling meetings...

"Phew! Stock's sold! Now break the news to the rest of the poor saps!"

--
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Re:How sudden? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:05 · Score: 0

I "worked" for directv up untill 11:00am this morning. When at that time they turned off the phone switch and the servers. Huddled us infront of a PA and announced to pack our stuff and go home.

Only a handfull of people at the call center knew anything about the shutdown.
Re:How sudden? by Cramer · 2002-12-13 12:49 · Score: 1

Or discussions with other ISPs to whom they are trying to sell their customer base.
Re:How sudden? by DeepRedux · 2002-12-13 14:47 · Score: 1

The shutdown is a result of the collapse of the proposed merger between DirectTV and EchoStar. The merger was called off on Tuesday because of DOJ and FCC opposition. EchoStar will pay DirectTV a $600M breakup fee.

The DSL shutdown is only one of the changes.
On Wednesday, DirectTV extended its "Sunday Ticket" deal with the NFL for 5 more years.
On Thursday, they announced a deal for HP to provide technology and services for 5 years.
Re:How sudden? by slam+smith · 2002-12-13 18:55 · Score: 1

I remember when phoenixdsl went under. About 5 months later a monster truck competion in town was going on, and they had TV ads, that said the competion was in part sponsored by Phoenixdsl, a company that had gone out of business months before.

--
My Weblog
Re:How sudden? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 03:45 · Score: 0

I saw an advertisement TONIGHT on CNN. This was a surprise to EVERYONE.
Re:How sudden? by jmertic · 2002-12-16 01:44 · Score: 1

Wow, I just got a special offer in the mail with my DirecTV bill to get service for $39.95 a month for the first year. Good thing I didn't call today to get it activated!

Sad, but necessary by I+Am+The+Owl · 2002-12-13 10:34 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Unfortunately, this was largely due to the large amounts of bandwidth unfairly utilized by the "power users" of the network, who used applications such as KazAA and Napster most likely to pirate music and other questionable activities. It is sad that we will no longer be able to get satellite TV here because a few people using DSL had to ruin it for everyone else by getting greedy.

Why can't people just take what they need, instead of running off with everything that isn't nailed down?

--

--sdem

Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:40 · Score: 0

Since when can you sell "unlimited access" and then get mad when people actually use it?

People that only do e-mail and surf the web do fine with modems. It's the power users that need and are willing to pay for broadband.
Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:40 · Score: 0

Why can't people just take what they need, instead of running off with everything that isn't nailed down?

Wow, what a galactic dumbass. Why can't the ISPs just offer what they can afford to provide, instead of promising users "unlimited" this and "free" that, only to go back on their advertising when customers actually take them up on it?
Re:Sad, but necessary by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

Unfortunately, this was largely due to the large amounts of bandwidth unfairly utilized by the "power users" of the network, who used applications such as KazAA and Napster most likely to pirate music and other questionable activities.

This was not the problem. The main problem was having to do business with ILECs, which are monopolies that compete against us. A secondary problem was some not-so-bright management decisions, and not being able to offer value-added services (and collect additional revenue) because the main database system was designed by morons.

It is sad that we will no longer be able to get satellite TV here because a few people using DSL had to ruin it for everyone else by getting greedy.

Huh? DirecTV Broadband has nothing to do with DirecTV satelite.

Why can't people just take what they need, instead of running off with everything that isn't nailed down?

Because they're offered unlimited service.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:45 · Score: 0

Since when can you sell "unlimited access" and then get mad when people actually use it?

Since ordinary citizens turned into criminals. Free speech does not mean the freedom to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, and unlimited access does not mean unlimited for pirates and thieves.
Re:Sad, but necessary by KingAdrock · 2002-12-13 10:47 · Score: 2

That is crap. Just because a user is using tons of bandwidth does not make them a criminal. The business plan was flawed -- and that is the reason they are going out of business.
Re:Sad, but necessary by frotty · 2002-12-13 11:07 · Score: 1

Interesting,

When I first got my "unlimited broadband" I did nothing but download for 1 straight month...
I had basically set up webcrawlers to retrieve every director website, including pages and sources, every single graphic that I could find, every single font that I could find, all of the flash site archives and, finally, found and used scripts to download every single bit of shareware that was on the web.

I recall using max bandwidth (uncapped back then) for at least 3 weeks straight.

Nothing illegal, I was too paranoid at the time to lose the connection because *they* were watching.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Maybe one day a system will be developed that lets you utilize a certain amount (megs? time?) of high speeds for when you "really need it" and the rest of the time you suffer a cap that's more than the current one...

I know I'd not mind my 99% of the time DL cap if I could then pool the savings to massively increase my cap.

--
-- The truth is the only thing that nobody will believe.
Re:Sad, but necessary by z84976 · 2002-12-13 11:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've been through a lot of providers in the last 2 and half years (phoenixdsl sdsl, megapath sdsl, telocity sdsl, and directvdsl most recently, all "ceasing service" for one reason or another), and have just (luckily, and by chance) signed up for speakeasy dsl to replace my directvdsl (sorry speakeasy customers, this may doom them too). So far, speakeasy has been great, even though the service was due to work as of today and does not yet. But overall, even with the bellsouth-provided hardships I had with directvdsl, I have to say their tech support people were by far the best I've ever encountered. A particular one named "Erin" was the best broadband techie individual I've ever experienced. In this day of really really really lousy tech support (bellsouth, bellsouth, bellsouth and bellsouth) they were a shining beacon of hope. Hate to see them go, even though I was about to cancel anyway (speakeasy gives me adsl with 2 static ips and better upload). Good luck to their tech support dept.
Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:44 · Score: 0

So the ILEC's are evil...
Then how come the streets are choked with other companies copper, co-ax and fiber?

Starcom builds their own outside plant. Soup to Nuts. They are beholden to no one but their customers, stockholders, backbone and global service providers. That's playing fair.

It can be done but it's not cheap.

If the CLEC's think they are getting an unfair deal from the ILEC's let em buy their access from the cable companies and Starcom.

Sure I'd love a 100 mbps full duplex connection to the internet for $5/ month, or even gratis because I use their voice service. Fact of the matter is that connecting to the internet costs at every step of the way. Take a close look, and I don't think you'll find anyone who really makes money selling residential broadband unless they are (were) duping someone else out of venture capital funds.
Re:Sad, but necessary by skeedlelee · 2002-12-13 13:21 · Score: 2

Hear, hear...

I had great experiences with DirecTV DSL tech support. If I could remember their names I'd be naming them right now. Nice to have support by a person with a clue, not just someone reading a script. Also, the initial set-up was alarmingly easy. Whole thing took about 3-5 minutes.

And for the usual slashdot crowd, their description of how to setup with Linux, something along the line of, 'just plug it in, it already works'
Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 14:41 · Score: 0

Bullshit. It's falling apart because HNS paid $180,000,000 for 150,000 customers who are paying $50/month. Do some simple math. That's around $1200 per customer. That's two years just to break even. Oh...wait a minute. That's two years to break even if they got to keep 100% of the money. They don't. Most of that money goes to the telcos that actually provide the physical connection. That'd make it more like ten or fifteen years to break even. What a great deal! Oh. And advertising. National advertising campaigns are expensive. Make it twenty years to break even.
Re:Sad, but necessary by purplebear · 2002-12-13 15:12 · Score: 1

I was at one time a Telocity customer. I must say I am sad to see this service provider go, as long as things hadn't changed too terribly much. They, while Telocity at least, had probably one of the best AUP's I had ever been a subscriber under. Well, all except that first small dialup ISP I worked that basically had no AUP. Anyway, it was basically do whatever you want so long as it's not illegal, and you are not making money directly from it.
I was really looking forward to Bell getting off their arses and expanding the DSL capabilities of my area so I could return to DirectvDSL, Telocity.
I admit they had an annoying problem of every first day I would be the on-call engineer, somehow a routing loop would occur between San Diego and San Jose. That was probably the worst thing about the then Telocity, was an AUP targeting, to a degree, geeks, but initial customer service the level of someone on a phone reading through script cards that barely know an email address from a URL, much less anything about networking.
Anyway, sad to see a decently provider go down even if I have found a better alternative.
Re:Sad, but necessary by shepd · 2002-12-13 15:49 · Score: 2

>Unfortunately, this was largely due to the large amounts of bandwidth unfairly utilized by the "power users" of the network

Funny, I would have blamed it on the corporate dumb-heads that didn't do a cost ananlysis of the situation.

That's what one normally does. Does one blame Ford or customers for Ford going out of business if they said to everyone "Go ahead and take a Ford, for free, for as long as you need it" and noticed everyone keeping them?

A proper business plan would have included a limit. For example, 10 Gigs for $50.

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:Sad, but necessary by shepd · 2002-12-13 15:52 · Score: 1

>The main problem was having to do business with ILECs, which are monopolies that compete against us.

So why is it that other internet companies with about 1/1000th of your revenue are able to stay afloat? Does the wife of the CEO become the personal love slave of RBOC employees?

>A secondary problem was some not-so-bright management decisions

No, that's the primary problem. It all so often is.

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:Sad, but necessary by Loki_1929 · 2002-12-13 17:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

"A proper business plan would have included a limit. For example, 10 Gigs for $50."

No.

If we're going to take this simplistic view of their business model, let's at least think it through to a minimal level. First of all, you lose a number of potential customers who fear going over the limit (or know for a fact that they will). Secondly, you have additional costs associated with such things as having to constantly tell people how close to the limit they are and having customers dispute how much they've transfered in a given time period. You'll then lose those customers who you don't give in to and they'll generate significant bad press. You can also forget collecting the last month's bill from many of those who leave who will decide that since your company is so incredibly greedy, you deserve nothing. Next, for the few customers you have left, most of them will switch as soon as an otherwise comparable service without the 10GB limit becomes available to them.

So, after cutting off potential revenue, alienating otherwise loyal customers, racking up huge numbers of "uncollectable"'s, and generating enough bad press to make Arie Flischer cry, your company's offices are raided by your creditors just before your disgruntled former customer burn your offices to the ground. Congratulations.

Caps work in very specific situations: when you have a monopoly on high-speed internet access, when your customers are perfectly happy to take limits on their use, and when any potential competitors also have similar limits. A better idea would be to introduce a tiered pricing scheme with limits on speed, as opposed to data transfer. A service at around $20 per month with speeds only slightly higher than dial-up would slaughter the dial-up market (same cost, better speed, no dialing up/missed calls/annoying modem noises), a $50 tier with speeds similar to what we see today in home broadband, and one or two higher end services with speeds that go up along-side the price; perhaps in the $100 and $200 ranges. This effectively limits your customers' total monthly data transfers without imposing limits that would increase costs to you while alienating your customer base.

But then again, any business with a single and specific method of generating revenue is pretty much doomed to fail anyway. Diversification is a necessary component in any business model, along-side strong management and adaptability. While you may wish to turn a cold shoulder to the so-called "power users", I would much rather solve the situation by putting a well thought out tiered pricing scheme in place, and modifying it once a year to ensure costs stay in line with revenue.

Then again, I'm a "power user" who eats up plenty of bandwidth (no comments about pr0n/warez/etc necessary, I'm talking about dBase transfers), yet I pay Comcast twice as much as their average home user, and do so without complaint - as I suspect many "power users" would do if offered the chance. The simple lesson to be learned is this: don't restrict your customer, give them more options to choose from and ensure that any choice they make benefits you. You come out looking like the good guy while still maintaining a strong revenue foundation.

--
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Re:Sad, but necessary by shepd · 2002-12-13 18:54 · Score: 1

>First of all, you lose a number of potential customers who fear going over the limit (or know for a fact that they will).

True. This is a good thing. They know the service isn't for them, and they don't have a chip on their shoulder like people who signup for unlimited services just to find they get a note from the sysadmin when they get to 30 GB.

It's like a corner store that tells you there's no way they can get you Marmite in Canada. At least they didn't lie and say "Sure, just give us some time".

>Secondly, you have additional costs associated with such things as having to constantly tell people how close to the limit they are and having customers dispute how much they've transfered in a given time period.

The software is really a moot cost. I've seen providers with FAR less money than DTV handle it without complaint. In fact, it's pretty much done for you in modern OSes.

Now, I was with a service that had such a limit. And they had message boards where people could complain, and they did, quite openly in fact. I never did see anything fishy go on on the boards, in fact I'd even seen posts that had I run the company, I may have deleted, but they weren't, save one (from a disgruntled investor).

Of all things, I never saw any complaints about the limit. Of course, the company I'm talking about provided you with a utility that let you measure your bandwidth to the byte, and they let you decide wether to be cut off for the month at the limit, or simply pay a little more for the extra. You could monitor your usage to the kilobyte, and I never saw it out of whack.

Even so, you can avoid the hassles from everyone but whackos (who will complain under _any_ circumstances) by stating you offer 10 GB for $50 but really providing 12 GB.

>You can also forget collecting the last month's bill from many of those who leave who will decide that since your company is so incredibly greedy, you deserve nothing.

This happens for any service. Those people will have another excuse tomorrow, "your service was out for an hour at midnight, you should pay me $xxx for that inconvenience". You honestly can't win with some people.

>So, after cutting off potential revenue, alienating otherwise loyal customers, racking up huge numbers of "uncollectable"'s, and generating enough bad press to make Arie Flischer cry, your company's offices are raided by your creditors just before your disgruntled former customer burn your offices to the ground. Congratulations.

These people try to do that anyways. Witness me and how much I have a burning hatred against Bell Canada. And that has nothing to do with some sort of limit on their DSL, it's simply because I (irrationally) hate the fact they won't provide me with DSL.

But, you know what, even with all the ranting I do, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. It takes way more than a complaining customer to make things happen. If you keep your nose clean and tell the newspapers the truth when the wackos get you investigated, you'll probably benefit from the service they provided.

>Caps work in very specific situations: when you have a monopoly on high-speed internet access, when your customers are perfectly happy to take limits on their use, and when any potential competitors also have similar limits.

Agreed, apart from the monopoly part. However, other factors come into play. If you had a choice between an unlimited DSL link for $50 with 25% packet loss, or a 0% loss 10 GB a month DSL link for the same price, what would you choose? Many here would prefer the second, more reliable choice.

>A better idea would be to introduce a tiered pricing scheme with limits on speed, as opposed to data transfer.

But a limit on speed _is_ a limit on data transfer (which you did mention, but didn't clarify). It's just hidden.

The clarification: Assuming you're talking 56 kbps (just a bit faster than the FCC mandated modem maximum), that's up to 14 Gigs a month. ie: You've just bought into the same plan I discussed, but will soon feel you've been taken when you realize you just got that data a whole lot slower than the guy next door.

And, guess what, the same crazies who would complain about the cap are now complaining about the speed. And, just like the people complaining about the cap who you tell can just buy more service, these people aren't going to listen when you tell them they need to buy a better plan.

>as I suspect many "power users" would do if offered the chance

Now this I agree with. My current 'net provider charges me $20 CDN a month for 7.5 Gigs, but I would gladly pay $50 a month if I could get 30 gigs. But instead they think charging something like $80 a gig above the limit is the way to go, so they only see $20 a month, and I drive to the college to do any particularly large downloading.

After spending time with caps and seeing the improvement in service after caps have been implemented, I'm much more in favour of them. Especially since it means BIG BILLS or no 'net for NIMDA patients. Plus I really can say spam costs me money. ;-)

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:Sad, but necessary by Loki_1929 · 2002-12-14 08:25 · Score: 2
First, I'd like to compliment you on a well-written, intelligent response; something or a rarity these days. A couple nitpicking points, and then a more general response. Many of the potential customers you lose never actually go near the limit; they just have no concept of how much 10GB really is. I have people ask me where I work if they can fit pictures on a CD-R. As for complaints, most non-technical people don't send an email or post to a message board; they call. That means you have to staff enough people to handle these extra billing complaints, which don't exist if the price of the service is set each month.

As for bad press, I'm of course not talking about CNN covering how much your customers hate your company; people almost expect any large company to be hated by most people (a sad fact). I'm talking about people going to places like DSLreports where they can lower your ISP rating and denounce you as the new Satan on the boards there. You then get a snowball effect as many other current and former customers chime in with the always-popular, "me too" rants. This too cuts down on your potential customer base, as many people really do check out sites like DSLreports before signing up to a new ISP.

When you're a monopoly, you can do whatever you like. "Don't like this 10GB cap? Go back to dial-up." Most people can't imagine going back to dial-up after using broadband for a while, so they'll take whatever abuse you hand them. As for packet loss, I would venture a guess that upwards of 90% of people on the internet have absolutely no idea what "packet loss" is. Aside from slashdot, you've got grandma looking up cooking tips on Martha Stuart's homepage and Jr. trying to get into that pr0n site to impress his buddies. Do not forget that the elderly make up the fastest growing group of internet users. Trying to advertise a "slower" service to them by saying, "but we have less packet loss than company A!" looks like you're trying to pull a fast one on them. This is the same reason Intel doesn't try explaining pipeline stages and SSE-2 instruction sets to its customers, why AMD and Apple both try to explain similar CPU concepts, and why Intel dominates the market. You post bigger numbers than your competitors, you get more customers; regardless of quality of service.

A limit on speed is indeed a limit on data transfer. The point I was trying to make is that you can limit data transfer and keep costs down without all the problems previously mentioned by offering more choices to your customers. When you offer more choices, most people see more options without noticing the implied restrictions. As for the first tier, I would probably say go with 60/60kbps service, just so you can plainly tell people that it's faster than their 56k modem without explaining FCC regulations regarding telephone line interference. You want to get across the point that it's faster, better, and more reliable. I'm completely astounded that no one has thought to make a $20/mo broadband service, as this would effectively wipe out the dial-up market in their area.

The crazies aren't the only ones who will complain about the cap; I will. Right now, I have the ability to do much of my money-making work from home. This is side work which I make extra money from, but it involves massive databases. Now, I could sit at work this weekend and do some of these things, but thanks to an unlimited connection, I can get stuff done any time, any day I please. Do I max my connection out 24/7? No, but thanks to my much slower upload (384k as opposed to 3.5mbit downstream), I end up maxing the upload out for 2 or 3 days at a time. This was a very painful process before tier'd service became an option, so I signed up for the higher tier as soon as it became available (even before they began advertising it). As for the "Nimda patients", many of these people are folks like your mother or your grandmother. I think you would be pretty pissed off if your mother's ISP sent her a $400 bill and she had no idea why. Especially if they refused to back down (which you suggested they ought to do). What's worse is if she decides to pay that bill before cancelling the service, despite the fact that she can't really afford to do so. And sure you can say spam costs you money, but that gives you the right to complain; nothing more, really. For me, with unlimited service, spam is an annoyance. For you, spam (potentially) is a financial burden. I fail to see how that puts you in a better position. The quality of service for my connection has been excellent. As much as I dislike Comcast (they try to squeeze every dollar they can out of every customer, while often providing sub-standard service), they internet service I've had from them since they took it over from @home has been very good. The service since I went to the higher tier has been incredible. In the 6 months or so since I switched, I think I've had about an hour of downtime total (two times, one was about 15 minutes, the other was close to an hour), and that was a few weeks after I switched. Since then, I've had a truly 24/7 connection available to me at a reasonable price. While I'd love for them to offer a similarly priced tier with something like 1.5/1.0 instead of 3.5/384k, I'm not about to complain about what I have.

All I'm trying to say is that you can reach the same goals by tiering as you would by capping without most of the negatives associated with the latter. You and I both apparently think very highly of different tiers, and we're both very willing to pay more money for better service. I suspect there are many, many others like us, and many others who would love to pay less for a slower service. I would suggest the following as a strong tier system:
1. $20/mo
  1. 60kbps downstream
  2. 60kbps upstream
  3. Market to current dial-up users
2. $50/mo
  1. 1.5mbps downstream
  2. 128kbps upstream
  3. Market to most home broadband users
3. $60/mo
  1. 1.25mbps downstream
  2. 384kbps upstream
  3. Market to other home broadband users
4. $100/mo
  1. 2.0mbps downstream
  2. 512kbps upstream
  3. Market to "power" users and businesses
5. $200/mo
  1. 2.0mbps downstream
  2. 1.5mbps upstream
  3. Market to businesses using T-1's (no service contract)
--
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Re:Sad, but necessary by leviramsey · 2002-12-14 09:15 · Score: 2

A proper business plan would have included a limit. For example, 10 Gigs for $50.

And that's what DirecTV DSL did... they do/did limit the amount of bandwidth you can use (2 GB uploads/month).

Doh! by SkewlD00d · 2002-12-13 10:35 · Score: 2

Fsck! And I just said how good their prices and service was in the previous story! DirecTV is really hurting, they needed to cut their losses to keep their DBS system going.

What a shame! They might be missed.

Directvinternet.com
directvdsl.com (formerly Telocity)
telocity.com

--
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.

Re:Doh! by Cramer · 2002-12-13 12:51 · Score: 1

DSS is insanely profitable. (Even more so if you "write off" the cost of all the satellites.)
Re:Doh! by SkewlD00d · 2002-12-14 11:24 · Score: 2

LOL! And even all the damn h@x0rs that don't pay for service. Well, there's still overhead and rebroadcasting fees, figure $150M/yr. But $37.99 * 3,755,000 = $142M/mnth (conservatively). If they are in financial trouble, then they don't know shit about finance. Maybe 500k are hacking? That's ~$19M/mnth uncollected, maybe 10% of those would buy service if unable to hack; ~$2M/mnth more revenue if they had better security. But, it'd probably cost them $100M+ to swap-out receivers. Durr, change the encryption codes every week and distribute the decryption keys encrypted with the access card# using public key crypto to only paying receivers when the receivers call home. In conclusing, DirecTV doesn't know shit about security.

--
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.

It was the name that did it! by wumarkus420 · 2002-12-13 10:35 · Score: 5, Interesting

Not too big of a surprise. You have no idea how many times people would ask me (sys admin) about internet connections and DirecTV-DSL came up. Of course the number one question - DOES IT WORK OVER THE SATELLITE!!!??? People could never get past the DirecTV name, and therefore seemed to shy away from the service because they were either confused or thought they had to subscribe to satellite service to get the service. The term "DSL" means nothing to anybody but people like us. To everyone else, they only look at the DirecTV part and make assumptions on that. I mean, their satellite service is named DIRECWAY - that's a hell of a lot more separation than DIRECTVDSL. Of course, they probably thought the name would be the selling point - but unfortunately, DSL and satellite service don't mix.

Re:It was the name that did it! by madHomer · 2002-12-13 10:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

They started out as Telocity, which is not a bad name, but when Direct TV bought them out, accounts payable at my company had an issue with me trying to expense my Satellite TV bill.
Re:It was the name that did it! by gregger · 2002-12-13 10:50 · Score: 5, Informative

Yeah, DirectWay or DirecPC (their other broadband services) are probably the only options I have (until Ricochet comes in).

I too thought "hmmm... DirecTVDSL, maybe it goes through the satellite... naaaah."

DirecPC is interesting because it does the download from a satellite (about 300 to 400 kbps) but the upload from a dial-up connection. So you have to use their software that splits your traffic for you. You get fairly good response since most users download a lot, but upload little. The drawback is that you still need a separate phone line.

DirecWay is actual TWO-way satellite broadband. It was supposed to get the same 300 - 400kbps download speed and a 128kbps upload speed.

Sounds great until you think of the actual time taken for clicks to be processed. Since your signal has to go from your roof to a satellite, to earth, do stuff, then take the same course back, response lag can range up to the .5 to 1 sec range! (So I've heard from users, but can't personally verify.)

This makes certain applications fail (including a Web application we make). Once you get a response it is very fast, but the lag... wow...

TTFN
Re:It was the name that did it! by jiminim · 2002-12-13 10:55 · Score: 2, Informative

> People could never get past the DirecTV name

I have had people ask if DSL meant "Direct Satellite Link"
Re:It was the name that did it! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:06 · Score: 0

You've got it - when I first read about DirecTV-DSL, I thought, "Damn, what a fucked up marketing tactic, calling satellite net service DSL." I seriously thought that the marketroids had escaped and were trying to capitalize on peoples lack of knowledge of what DSL was. It wasn't until several months later that I actually read about the service. The name totally turned me off, initially.
Re:It was the name that did it! by drinkypoo · 2002-12-13 13:17 · Score: 1

No joke. I had a conversation with my brother TWICE (he is in construction, and not at all tech-savvy) about how they might call it DSL, but DSL means something, and they are NOT DSL. I tried to explain how DSL was carried over copper and they're doing satellite, but even that didn't make any impression.
They should have stuck with calling it "satellite internet" instead of trying to compare it to DSL, especially since it does not compare well.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:It was the name that did it! by drinkypoo · 2002-12-13 13:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

400kbps is not very fast anyway. You have to provide people at least 768k or they will be saying "man, my friends with DSL (and/or cable) can download more than TWICE as fast as I can." 300kbps is DEFINITELY not fast enough. 128kbps is enough upstream, almost everyone has to settle for that, except most attbi customers who (like me) get 256kbps up.
Incidentally I don't see why you would have to use their software which splits traffic. Basic routing should take care of that, as long as your ISP is not blocking traffic from random routable IP addresses which come from your IP address. Since you are speaking TCP/IP over PPP (in almost every case) on a modem link to an ISP, as long as the machine with the outbound connection is forwarding packets between interfaces (IE, it is a router) you ought to have no problems sending out that traffic.
However if they are blocking traffic from other IPs there is another solution, use a VPN to some asset of the satellite ISP who then relays your requests - this is slow and costs more, and I think doing bidirectional satellite is the only reasonable solution. Sure, you can't play games over it, but only a poorly designed web application will bitch about two seconds of seemingly random lag, which is a common occurence on every home internet link I've ever heard of. If your web app chokes because someone has a 2 second lag time on top of the usual lag one sees on the 'net, your web app is poorly designed.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:It was the name that did it! by Mr+Teddy+Bear · 2002-12-13 13:41 · Score: 0, Troll

Lag time for satellite depends totally on the orbit the satellite has on the earth. There are 2 geosync orbits around the earth. one (which is what all the old ones use) is waaayyy up above the earth. THAT orbit would make about a .5 to 1 second delay. Now the other one, which is much closer (but still not as close as cell phone sats) is actually much faster than most connections (unless you are directly on a backbone.)

The fun fact for the day is that many DSL connections and most overseas connections are made via satellite.

By the way, for one who might argue that cell phones have horrible lag... this is true.. this is for two reasons: 1. it is not a geosync sat so it isn't in the same location all the time. and 2. Cell phone towers using way-slower-than-light-speed connections between eachother. A cell phone conversation might have to go through several towers on each end. Go figure. :-)
Re:It was the name that did it! by tealover · 2002-12-13 14:39 · Score: 1

I had a conversation with my brother TWICE (he is in construction, and not at all tech-savvy) about how they might call it DSL, but DSL means something, and they are NOT DSL

And your brother is not tech-savvy ?!? What does that make you? The missing link ?

--
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Re:It was the name that did it! by cgleba · 2002-12-13 17:24 · Score: 2

> response lag can range up to the .5 to 1 sec
> range! (So I've heard from users, but can't
> personally verify.)

Geosynchronous satellites are 22,000 miles away from the earth and light travels at 186,000 miles per second. . .you do the math (more like 1/4 sec: +237ms to normal delay).

I've done networking at a delployed location where IP had to hop two satellites (full duplex). The lag was noticeable but not as horrid as one may assume -- with a decent proxy server it was definately bearable.

Interestingly, browsers act very very different with that much lag. IE sucked ass and Mozilla wasn't much better. This was one situation where Opera really shined. Seriously, browsing the web with Opera with that much lag was an order of magnitude better then any other browser I tried.

Now that I'm back on a cable modem I've returned to Galeon, however if anyone has a situation where lag is a big factor try Opera -- you will be impressed with the difference!
Re:It was the name that did it! by lucifuge31337 · 2002-12-13 17:30 · Score: 2

Your brother is aparrantly smarter than you. DirectTV DSL _is_ DSL service. The satellite services are called DirecPC and DirectWay.

--
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Re:It was the name that did it! by Ryandav · 2002-12-13 21:00 · Score: 2

No offense, but I should point out that the average upload on attbi's network as indicated by speed tests on broadbandreports.com is far below 256. Sure, some special markets are being allowed to experiment within their local region, but its certainly not even close to uniform or widely possible.

I should know, i was until recently a victim of their shitty network. a single test would look wonderful, but monitoring the connection over time, I began to realize it was the exception, not the rule.

DSL forever, baby...

--
Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD
Re:It was the name that did it! by drinkypoo · 2002-12-14 06:42 · Score: 2

That's interesting since he was led to believe by the radio commercials that it was carried by satellite. I never heard the commercials (commercial radio is the spawn of satan and I avoid it whenever possible) so I couldn't say. The point is, he was quite adamant that it was "DSL" and that it was carried by satellite, not copper.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:It was the name that did it! by drinkypoo · 2002-12-15 15:24 · Score: 2

While we have successfully wandered off topic here... I may be a special case but I have had nothing but the best service I've gotten from any ISP on any kind of link, from attbi.com cable. My upstream really does seem to be 256kbps sustained.
My suspicion is that in some markets they are using either not enough interfaces or interfaces with too few upstream channels. DOCSIS has a peak aggregate upstream per channel -- which is shared, unlike downstream -- of ~11Mbps. You must be in an oversold and underprovisioned area.
I have had only two unexplained outages, during which my CM was looking for a signal (it did its knight rider impression) - neither of which lasted more than five minutes.
My only complaints about attbi are the news server, which holds articles for far too short a time, and the modems, which suck and which don't let you see hardly anything on the web interface. I miss the log page. Eventually I may go get myself a DOCSIS CM at fry's or something, if they go on sale, and replace this GI/Moto piece of shit.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

The mom and pop isp's dream. by BaconLT · 2002-12-13 10:35 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Great! Finally, an opportunity for the underdog to topple the stronghold DirecTV had on the Satellite Broadband provision network.

--
Who mediates your information?

Re:The mom and pop isp's dream. by binaryDigit · 2002-12-13 10:41 · Score: 3, Informative

Sorry, but DirecTVDSL had nothing to do with satellite broadboand, just dsl. They had a good service at a good price (never had a problem with mine).
Re:The mom and pop isp's dream. by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:48 · Score: 2

Great! Finally, an opportunity for the underdog to topple the stronghold DirecTV had on the Satellite Broadband provision network.

DirecTV Broadband has nothing to do with DirecTV satelite.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:The mom and pop isp's dream. by LostCluster · 2002-12-13 11:01 · Score: 2

Too good a service and too good a price, hence the money-losing company that had to be shut down.
Re:The mom and pop isp's dream. by binaryDigit · 2002-12-13 11:12 · Score: 2

Too good a service and too good a price, hence the money-losing company that had to be shut down.

Does make you wonder exactly what the economics of it was. Their price was decent, comparable to cable and their service was reliable (at least for me). So was this a case of simply not having enough customers, customers hogging bandwidth (I wouldn't believe this one, if so why didn't they just put bandwidth caps and offer tiered service?), to much profit going to the telcos for the lines, etc?

Why Portland? by Colonel+Panic · 2002-12-13 10:36 · Score: 2, Informative

I don't see any mention of Portland in the press release. Is there a Portland office shutting down?
Well, if that's the case then join the party... there are plenty of us here not working.

Re:Why Portland? by The+Electric+Messiah · 2002-12-13 10:38 · Score: 4, Informative

Yeah, they have a tech support call center out here in Beaverton just down the street from Stream (where I work). Apparently they took everybody into a room, unplugged all the phones, and sent them all home.

--
"Bold as Love"
Re:Why Portland? by terpia · 2002-12-13 11:00 · Score: 2

Stream?

hahahaha....

I got out of there in 98! One of the best things I ever did was get out of that shitty company.

--
.sig wanted: Must be concise, funny, and display my cleverness.
Re:Why Portland? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:03 · Score: 0

intel just laid off bunchs of random 'considered to be unproductive projects' teams.

granted, they were mostly doing nothing all day, but that's intel's fault for not being able to figure out what all of it's employee's are doing.
Re:Why Portland? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:04 · Score: 0

You could always go to Charter in Vancouver, WA. I left there recently and they had a lot of ex Stream people that left when @Home folded
Re:Why Portland? by TC+(WC) · 2002-12-13 14:31 · Score: 2, Funny

Wow... They put all the people in a room and sent the phones home? :(

Glad I don't work for them.
Re:Why Portland? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 20:11 · Score: 0

and again, and again, and again.

attbi.com is now comcast.net, and ch 12 claims 'duplicate usernames will be arbitrarily changed'

which is why personal vanity tld's are so key these days. if you have a website, you should have a pop3 account associated with it.
Re:Why Portland? by paulie+walnuts · 2002-12-13 21:24 · Score: 1

I couldnt agree more.

The tech market here in Portland is SO in the tank it's scary.

TO ALL SLASHDOTTERS:

Anyone looking for a contract network engineer with high end Cisco router/switch experience?
I'll pay you for the opportunity to reassure myself I'm in the right field!!!

pauliewalnuts01@hotmail.com
Re:Why Portland? by mcpkaaos · 2002-12-13 22:13 · Score: 1

Heh, I worked there for awhile back in '96 when they had the Netscape account (back in Navigator 1.1 days, when 2.0 was an early beta.) I can tell you that it was always as bad as you probably had it. ;)

--
mcp\kaaos

--
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.

Re:Lightning bolt! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:36 · Score: 0

Wow, that's retarded... And no index.html or directory listing, either. Are you one of those losers in the video, to know where to find it?

Making the Tech job market harder? by Helios292 · 2002-12-13 10:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

So, how large was their employee base?

What does this bode for folks in nearby cities (like Seattle, for example) who are currently battling an already shitty tech market?

-Unemployed in Seattle

Re:Making the Tech job market harder? by Lucas+Membrane · 2002-12-13 20:31 · Score: 2

Last week or so, WA passed OR as the state of greatest unemployment rate. So OR has to try to keep its claim to fame. It sort of balances out. WA sends its recently laid off workers to OR. OR sends its long-term unemployed to WA. WA sends its toxic waste to OR. OR sends its hazardous waste to WA.
If you want to retire young and rich, be young and go short in houses on the Northwest Housing Exchange for the next 6 months.

Doesn't look good for anyone by SteweyGriffin · 2002-12-13 10:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

I got to reading some other headlines about broadband companies. This got me to thinking -- is anyone doing well in this market right now?!

This is really upsetting because broadband is so important to so many people these days. Geeks, eBay'ers, etc. need to be connected, and ISPs, telcos, etc. don't seem to be able to provide fairly cheap, reliable service.

Hughes shutdown strands broadband users
CNET News.com - 8 minutes ago ... Satellites, digital subscriber lines and cable modems are the three
major ways Web providers deliver broadband to homes and offices. ...

Hughes to close terrestrial broadband operation
Bizjournals.com - 1 hour ago ... DirecTV Broadband, based in Cupertino, was acquired by Hughes in April ... it's working
toward transitioning existing customers to alternative service providers. ...
Hughes Shuttering a Fast ISP Unit - TheStreet.com

Broadband prices to rise in early 2003
ZDNet.co.uk, UK - 7 hours ago ... help ISPs stimulate the UK broadband market, which has already boomed over the last
12 months. "Recent advertising campaigns from BT and its service providers ...
BTw in new year ADSL promo - The Register

AOL's Iffy Broadband Deals
InternetNews.com - 12 Dec 2002
But the hefty carriage fees it faces from cable providers add up to iffy
prospects for making money off broadband, consumer advocates say. ...
The Layoffs That Stole Christmas - Washington Post
AOL's Iffy Broadband Deals - InternetNews.com
AOL's Parsons: "This Isn't Terminal" - BusinessWeek

Local cable TV, Internet choices debated
Hampton Union, NH - 7 hours ago ... necessary because he has heard residents complain about the lack of options from
AT&T Broadband and Comcast, the town's current Internet and cable providers. ...

BT fails to make the connection
CW360.com, UK - 14 hours ago ... why doesn't BT act as a branded reseller for third-party cable service providers? ... Instead
of waiting until the local level of demand for broadband justifies an ...

Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Vellmont · 2002-12-13 10:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

Indeed. I was a sprint high speed DSL subscriber until recently, when they decided to pull out of the high speed DSL market in my area.

The word on the street I keep hearing is that's it's very difficult for companies to make profits off broadband. I really don't know why this is the case, broadband really isn't THAT unpopular. Are investors too impatient on a return on their investments? Do a lot of these companies just have a poor business model? Are these companies just badly managed? Or is this just a natural weeding of bad companies in an industry that's still fairly young?

I'd be willing to bet on the latter. Seems like this same thing happened in the early commercial dialup ISP era, but no one heard about it because the companies affected were much smaller.

--
AccountKiller
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by hudsonhawk · 2002-12-13 11:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sure, someone's doing well - the LEC's. Its their obscene fees that keep anyone but them from providing affordable broadband. DSL should be affordable - cable just has too high of a rollout cost, and too many points of failure. But since the FCC has pretty much decided to just ignore the laws mandating local competetion, there's little that can be done.

Other than giving your location-mandated baby Bell even more money for shitty customer service and outdated equipment.

Scott
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by dissy · 2002-12-13 11:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

I think your comment hits the problem on the head...

> Geeks, eBay'ers, etc. need to be connected, and
> ISPs, telcos, etc. don't seem to be able to provide
> fairly cheap, reliable service.

You cant have everything for nothing.
You want expensive services for cheap? No one can do it.

As long as T1's and T3's cost the price they do, _someone_ has to bear that. The customer complains it shouldnt be them it should be the ISP. But why is that exactly?

The only reason in the past for an ISP to do this is to get a T1 and share it with say a number of dialup ports.

Unless you want your DSL/Cable to be 64k or less each way, the numbers dont make finantual sence to the ISPs to not raise prices to charge accordingly.

You want a megabit down? That costs an ISP $1500/month. You people want that for $40/month and not have it shared with 40 or more other people, yet there is no other way to break even, let alone make money.

<rant>
I would love to have that too, but I would also love free art, obtainable medicines for those that need it, not charged to use the airwaves around me, to be able to travel into space, and to be able to modify my own DNA at my whim, and a large number of other things.
As of yet, none of this is happening even though it is all very possible and we are just as capable of doing right now.

<bigger rant>
As long as governments allow the raping of the people by providing one company with a monopoly, and outlawing all competition, all we can do is fight them to give us our USA back. But too many people dont care and are fine with it, so nothing will change except for the worse.
</rant></rant>

That is the problem that needs fixing.

Now on to phase two.. Ideas. Got any? I sure dont :(
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by nelsonal · 2002-12-13 11:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think there are two reasons. First the current users of broadband use a lot of bandwidth. Companies were hoping that the eventual subscribers would be a cross section of narrowband customers, not high bandwidth users. This drives up the company's network costs, T1's and above are not cheap.
Second, adoption rates have not been good at all, the companies were expecting much higher penetration rates by now, and most of them spent too much money on capital equipment. Now they aren't running at capacity, and are unprofitable. This compbined with the new investment focus on cost cutting, means that they are leaving quickly. Sprint probably took the DSLAM from your area, to an area that was already operating at capacity, so they didn't have to buy another one.

--
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:58 · Score: 0

Well, the idea USED to be feasible when you had dozens of major backbone providers peering with each other. Now most have gone out of business and the rest want to charge the others for transit costs! That's where the charge comes from. If two providers get together and peer the only cost is the cost of the physical line from the telco. Unfortunately I'm sure the telcos haven't stopped raping the ISPs yet either... that'll need strong government regulation to slap them down. There is a shitload of dark fiber available and to charge the astronomical fees they continue to try to is absolutely criminal.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by The+Kow · 2002-12-13 11:58 · Score: 2, Informative

Profit margins for DSL are pretty low. A lot of the ISPs were forced to fit in a small market, so some of them were destined to buckle. I've heard mixed reviews of DirecTV, but if you were with them for the static IPs/power-user benefits, Speakeasy offers much of the same, and it's one of the only growing DSL ISPs in the nation. They're also running some damn nice promotions that make me a tad jealous of our customers (I am an employee).

One of the problems with a lot of the providers is their failure to differentiate. Its hard to tell the difference between a lot of these ISPs because they don't provide any one thing better than other companies. Most of these companies shot for bill consolidation, which is nice, but hardly something you can sell yourself off of, since so many internet access companies provide it (direcTV dsl, any ILEC ISP, cable broadband, etc.). There's just too many competitors shooting for the bargain/cheap-goods approach.

Having offered a plug for Speakeasy, I must warn you, they're not cheap, because you pay for what you get (or you get what you pay for, depends on how you want to approach it, I guess). That said, you get a lot of things most other ISPs wouldn't dream of offering.

As always, if you want a good medium to get recommendations, DSL Reports is a good place to go. Don't take my word on Speakeasy, their reputation there will speak for itself.

However, there is one thing to keep in mind - being in the DSL business, at the consumer level, is asking for a potentially complicated relationship. Installation can be quite a pain, and this has as much to do with any one of your phone lines, local phone company, and fate, as it does with the ISP itself. Some people aren't aware of this or don't realize it, and they get frustrated, and since the ISP is the front line of service, they're the ones who get the blame.

--
Moo
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:07 · Score: 0

so let me get this right...

you believe in tiny government that installs (and presumably maintains) enormous infrastructure.

secondly, you believe the infrastructure should be 'openned up' in a 'non-discriminatory' manner. now You could open it up for free (can't discriminate against the poor or the small) in which case you may as well pay your taxes to the telcos who will benefit most.

Alternatively, you charge for access inw which case you not only discriminate, but also end up passing the costs through. In this case, you are proposijng the govenrment simply enter the market as a player.

Maybe I don't get it.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:20 · Score: 0

You want expensive services for cheap? No one can do it.

Eh??? My current connection is 2.4Mb down, 320Kb up, and $35 a month. Of course that's a hell of a lot slower than it used to be a couple years ago (my original connection was 10Mb down for the same price!), but it's not bad and faster than a T1 on the down.

COX Cable, thank you.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by shaitand · 2002-12-13 12:20 · Score: 2

The last thing I want is federal control of my connectivity (uncle same is his regulations are half the reason for the high cost now, as well as his ridiculus tax boundries). And if this did unfortunately happen, I don't think pay by howmuch bandwidth you use will be appropriate. Flat rate, definately flat rate. A standard charge maybe $5 PERIOD for connectivity and that $5 should be an additional tax to home owners, federal should charge the states with implementing this and it should go down the chain until it ends up that homeowners pay the $5/month tax for this. It's just bundled in with everything else. It would be nearly invisible, think of it just like your city water pipeline. When an area is put on city water to begin with, the costs are covered, end of story, after that it's dirt cheap for the water itself. Same with the community fibre lines, perhaps it'll make you wince to pay your share for the cabling initially if your a homeowner or a landlord, but thereafter the bandwidth should be like water, dirt cheap, if it's charged by consumption it should be measured in such a way 99% of the population (who uses it) including an average music downloader gets a $10-$15 bill. Buisnesses could provide services through this, and so could I, they would get no special benefits, they have the same hookup to the pipeline I do.

But again, although this would allow for fast access to everyone who lives in a reasonable sized area (if you live in bum fuck egypt, perhaps it's time to move?), roughly equivelent to those who have access to resources such as city water. It's still a very very bad idea, it would give uncle sam way to much opportunity to invade in on my privacy. Uncle same would have no problem filtering what it believed to be "illegal" content on it's pipeline and it would filter it only because it's illegal in the US and the US government is only concerned with US law...
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by EchoMirage · 2002-12-13 12:55 · Score: 2

Now on to phase two.. Ideas. Got any? I sure dont

Aside from the 'brilliant' Libertarian idea to have the government build a megalithic mass of wires everywhere, there's an up-and-coming technology: wireless.

Compared to anything wired, which requires some kind of physical infrastructure and maintainence (meaning beaucoup $$) wireless is comparably cheap and more easily maintainable. Therefore, I think the more sensible option is 802.11x, or some neat derivative thereof (as 802.11x isn't necessarily a great system by itself).

Wireless brings with it its own set of problems, but ultimately, getting 11, 22, or 54Mbps out of thin air is a much more attractive option than sending the government's New Deal construction company out to dig up the street you live on and lay conduits.

Until wireless attains ubiquity, there's unfortunately still going to need to be infrastructure to support it (big fibre pipes for the APs to go into, for instance) but even so, it's less infrastructure than a "cable everywhere" proposal.

And no, Dan, and I don't want the government giving us wireless either...that's what the free enterprise market is for (isn't that what Libertarians supposedly trump up anyways?).
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Winged+Cat · 2002-12-13 12:56 · Score: 2

As of yet, none of this is happening even though it is all very possible and we are just as capable of doing right now.

Actually, it's almost all happening, or being worked on (that is, if you want it that bad, you can go help make it happen, for you and everyone else, and get paid while doing so). Taking your examples:

I would also love free art,

I don't know about those who try to make their living from art, but I know that most of what art I have created has been given away. Granted, it's low production value, but it's been good enough for the people I made it for. There are a lot of indie artists out there who just give away their art - some of it very good, if you know what you're into and where to look for it.

obtainable medicines for those that need it,

Being worked on. (Aspirin, for instance, once cost a lot more than it does now. Or do you claim that even aspirin is too expensive for the masses? Follow the same trend with other medicines, and give it enough time.)

not charged to use the airwaves around me,

Talk to the FCC. They're floating that very proposal right now. (For instance, if no one's using a certain TV channel in a given area, the corresponding bandwidth becomes unlicensed in that area unless and until someone buys it.)

to be able to travel into space,

Being worked on.

and to be able to modify my own DNA at my whim,

I suspect you'd prefer to know WTF you're modifying first. That's the approach those who are working on this are taking: first, make sure those who would do it know what edits will have what results, then make it easy/cheap/free for everyone to do it. In short, being worked on.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:14 · Score: 0

You are partly right, but I think one point that pretty much always missed is that I (and problably many other semi-professional users) wouldn't require, say, 512 kbps _guaranteed_ throughput at any given moment. Hell, with just a very low guaranteed temporary throughput would be ok (16kbps, whatever), as long as I can get whatever is left from others when there isn't enough high-priority big bucks data to be transferred. Big Company can guarantee T1/T3 throughput all the time by paying more, but little guys would get more than the minimum off-hours.
That is, using class-of-service and prioritizing, it should be easy to provide burst speeds up to T3 levels. I don't mind if download speeds vary a lot when there's more traffic from customers with higher priority.
Of course in theory that's what's being done already, to some degree. But ISPs love having additional throttle before last copper mile, just in case. Just to make it easier for them. One of the neat ideas for ATM was the possibility to easily (from connecting system's POV, definitely not from router POV) mix in different priority policies (guaranteed for real-time stuff like calls, best-effort for download, guaranteed minimum plus left-overs for other things). But it was fairly big chunk to implement, apparently, too ambitious, too much telecommunication knowledge without enough CS knowledge... and thus ATM remained at trunk network.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by srvivn21 · 2002-12-13 13:25 · Score: 2

There are exeptions. Perhaps few and far between, they do exist. Shops that are both increasing available speeds and experiencing financial success inspite of being hit hard by bad debt from WorldCom.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Cramer · 2002-12-13 13:27 · Score: 2
- T1's and above are not cheap.
That depends on where and from whom you are buying. But, no, it doesn't scale down to the pennies people want to pay for highspeed internet connections.

Let's do some math... Given a DS3 @ 45Mbps for 10,000$US per month and an inaccurate "10% rule", that DS3 can support 450 users which makes the break even on bandwidth costs @ 22.25$US per month. Add in the amortized costs of hardware and associated facilities, software and hardware support contracts, employee wages, taxes, and benefits... the costs can triple. In the dialup world, the difference could be made up by overselling the capacity by very large margins. That's rather hard to do in the "always on, instant access" broadband world. Add to the mix, the "cheap" buyers are residential and thus tend to use their connections in bursts -- all of them at the same time.

The hardware is expensive. The software is expensive. Training is expensive. Connectivity is expensive. And nobody is willing to pay what it really costs. Do you want to pay 100$/month for 144K IDSL? (technically, I spend almost that for 128k ISDN -- all of it for the ISDN line.)

People need to understand why a T1 costs so much more than a dialup connection. And bit-for-bit, the T1 is cheaper than dialup.

[If you could see the actual operating numbers for an ISP, it'd make you sick. There's no profit margin in selling residential services and only a small margin in commercial services.]
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by Cramer · 2002-12-13 13:31 · Score: 1

s/LEC's/RBOC's/

The baby bells are the ones who "own" all the cabling in the country. It's very rare to find non-bell wires in the last miles.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by drinkypoo · 2002-12-13 13:42 · Score: 2

The only problem with that is that all laws are mutable. Don't like them? Pass new ones. On one hand that is a good thing in that the laws could theoretically keep up with the times (instead they tend to lag fifty years behind them.) The drawback is that the government can promise you one thing at one time, get your votes and thus obscene portions of your money, and then change laws on you so that the things you were guaranteed are denied you, even if they were guaranteed in the constitution.
While there are those who argue that the constitution was in fact made only to last as long as those who wrote it, and be superseded by their sons' ideals, I think we all agree that a certain amount of long-term stability is a good thing. We want government to tell us we can do something, and then stick with it. In general people are happy with getting a new thing which has been carefully restricted, and then be given additional rights and/or abilities later.
The bottom line is that it is never in government's best interest to give you free communications. It is true that taking away our freedoms makes it easier to protect us from ourselves, each other, and from foreign threats. This can be disputed, but it would be dumb. The issue is that governments have an unfortunate history of not caring what is good for the individual, and that makes mobs of us. It forgets in fact that it is made up of individuals.
What I'm ranting about is that they may tell you that everyone has a right to a connection and as much bandwidth as they can eat today, but they may start supressing speech they feel is seditious, tomorrow. They might even someday subject you to the same idiotic levels of regulation that California does their drivers before they can drive; Only seriously legacy systems (those which it would cost more to bring up to spec than it costs to maintain) are allowed to be out of spec. You are not allowed to change most of the equipment (read: code) and if you do and you get caught, which is unlikely but possible, they can take your car away because it's not really yours. I do not think it is too paranoid to suspect that they will require everyone to use the same gateway which does certain types of filtering, for example, and if you hack that gateway to change its behavior you will face various penalties.
Of course government does pass laws which say that a corporation is required to prevent you from putting out certain kinds of traffic, or using your connection for certain purposes, but we express our desires to the companies and then they lobby (everyone with money lobbies) for the things that the most of us want, because whoever gets them and gives them to us gets lots of customers. So at least someone with some money (Even if it is ours) will speak for us. The only problem here (common to capitalism) is that they have their own goals (fleece us for as much cash as possible) which is why we need competition, which is why we need more wireless.
I don't know if UWB is all that people say it can be, but if it is, then we need to go that way. The reputed problem with UWB is that it interferes with classic radio use for things like analog television, which is where the FCC comes in. People protecting legacy media interests have lobbied to protect their frequencies for however long (btw when I say lobbied I mean bribed, I might as well be clear about that now so I don't look like a starry-eyed idealist or anything) they possibly can, and if UWB is everything it claims to be (a kind of radio-frequency panacea) then we have everything to lose by not using it. Lower-power, higher-range, and more bandwidth, where do I sign up?
Once we have more reasonable (read: reliable and long range) radio communications in place then all we need fiber for is to provide backbone service.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by jafac · 2002-12-13 15:12 · Score: 2

hm. I've got an idea.

I'm going to move to Japan, Canada, Australia, or Korea, where broadband is cheap and plentiful, competition is brisk, and the companies are somehow miraculously staying in business.

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by teslatug · 2002-12-13 18:18 · Score: 2

What is the deal with you libertarians? I don't like Republicans or Democrats that much, but if the federal government couldn't be distinguished from a hole in the ground, what would happen to consumers? I'm not saying that the government is exactly going all out against corporation, but at least something gets done. You want to see a police state, go with no state.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by nelsonal · 2002-12-15 18:46 · Score: 1

Thank you, you know we would all save quite a bit of time, if one of us were to put a definative case example of a broadband ISP's financial experience in a journal, and then reply with a link following each of the people who demand T-1 or better class broadband for $30 a month because bandwidth is free, dude.

--
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:Doesn't look good for anyone by What42 · 2002-12-17 09:38 · Score: 1

In a state with minimal government people will actually have to do things themselves. They will give the businesses who take care of them their business. Thus, the businesses which take care of their customers get the most customers and flourish. Those who try to screw over their customers will die out. The problem comes now because people expect every company to be honest and controlled by regulators. Because they have a false sense of security, people give their money to good and bad businesses and don't allow the free market to work.

--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

feeling a bit more monopolistic by Dugsmyname · 2002-12-13 10:37 · Score: 1

One less player, broadband in general is feeling a bit more monopolistic... With Comcast and AT&T and a few other "big guys" holding the majority of customers, I hope other "smaller" providers can stay afloat.

Re:feeling a bit more monopolistic by dirkdidit · 2002-12-13 12:50 · Score: 2

My local DSL provider is the telco co-operative, so I'm not too worried about ever losing service on phone or DSL. I guess I am one of the few lucky ones who have that luxury.
Re:feeling a bit more monopolistic by JaiWing · 2002-12-13 18:32 · Score: 1
Yes, soon to be two ... Comcast is going to buy AT&T Internet Broadband. Sound like even MORE of a monopoly.
Let's count:
mainline connections:
1. dialup
2. isdn (a phone service)
3. DSL on copper (a phone service, or on their wires)
4. Cable
Dialup sucks, isdn is EXPENSIVE and not always on, DSL is starting to price like ISDN (unless you buy the consumer 'dialup' version which IS well priced but is not always on, and only slightly faster (2-3x best dialup) than dialup) and is also becoming only availible from the phone companies, and cable is going monopolistic.
other options
1. phone services/HIGH cap (t1,t3, oc3 etc)
2. satelite
3. direct lines (HA :>)
t1s COST,satelite is FAST, high latency and expensive BUT FAST, Beoing and Microsoft can buy direct lines
upcoming / limited
1. local wireless
2. Others?
SO ... Everything that the government has done about wiring the US has forced the growth of monopolistic bohemoth providing entities. What ever they may have tried to achive, this is what we HAVE.

SkessekS

Teloshitty, DirectvDSL by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:37 · Score: 0

These bastards had shitty service but I stuck with them cuz they offered a static IP. Now, over the holidays, when nobody wants to work, I need to look for another provider. This BLOWS!

DSL? by Barbarian · 2002-12-13 10:38 · Score: 1

What does DSL have to do with a dish service? Did people have to have the satelite service + the DSL service as a package to get it? Was there any discount?

If this is just DSL, transitioning to another provide should be no problem. (okay, maybe 2-3 months if the horror stories you hear about DSL providers are really true sometimes).

Re:DSL? by binaryDigit · 2002-12-13 10:44 · Score: 2

Nothing, it was just a DSL service that happened to be offered by DirecTV (they acquired it from some other company not that long ago). Cool thing (at least for me) was that it actually was what they advertised. I signed up online, got my dsl modem after being informed that my dsl line was up (and within the time period they specified) and I plugged it in and ran with it. Hadn't had a peep or problem with it since. A shame.
Re:DSL? by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:46 · Score: 3, Informative

What does DSL have to do with a dish service? Did people have to have the satelite service + the DSL service as a package to get it? Was there any discount?

Marketing had some package deals going on, and I think they managed to get combined billing working, but other than that, no, DirecTV Broadband has nothing to do with DirecTV.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:DSL? by Didion+Sprague · 2002-12-13 10:47 · Score: 3, Interesting

About two or three years ago, Hughes bought out Telocity and rebranded Telocity as DirecTV DSL.

It was about that same time that (IIRC) Rhythms went under. Anyway, I remember I had something like 30 days to find another DSL provider because Telocity (now DirecTV) would no longer run on my Rhythms line. Too bad -- because it was SDSL 1500/1500. Pretty nice speed actually.

Anyway, I ended up going to Speakeasy and haven't had a problem. I pay twice as much, though -- almost 100 bucks a month.

*shrug*

So it goes.
Re:DSL? by Bourbonium · 2002-12-13 10:54 · Score: 1

There are two different businesses and technologies here. DirecTVDSL is a regular DSL provider that uses the telephone lines, just as all the others do. Has nothing to do with owning a DirecTV dish or satellite TV service. They used to be Telocity DSL. Telocity filed for Chapter 11 just before Rhythms DSL did. DirecTV bought Telocity's customers and assets and thought they could keep it going and make it profitable. Too bad it didn't work.

DirecWay (aka DirecPC, IIRC) is the Satellite broadband service also offered by DirecTV, but this does require a Satellite dish and a dual LNB connection on the dish (or two separate dishes). One lead goes to your satellite receiver, the other goes to your PC. But this service is severely asynchronous. You only get high speed data throughput downstream. There is no upstream channel. If you wanted an upstream path, you had to have a regular dial-up modem and an independent ISP (or a different broadband service).

I investigated all of these alternatives when I was shopping around for broadband, and while DirecPC sounded good from a price perspective, when you added on the cost of maintaining your dial-up service, it didn't make sense if you had regular DSL or cable modem available. Since DSL wasn't available in my area, I was left with @Home or DirecPC. I went with @Home (later went bankrupt; now I've got AT&T Broadband, which will be raising their rates in January 2003).
Re:DSL? by pyros · 2002-12-13 11:13 · Score: 2

Rhythms was nice. I was plenty pissed when they went down and Telocity was the provider picking up my line. Their terms of service and prices sucked. That's when I switched to Speakeasy. Turned out great. I still have both the DSL modems from Rhythms and Speakeasy.
Re:DSL? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:24 · Score: 0

I believe that Direct TV felt that it needed to compete with the cable companies on all fronts.

Because of the sudden success of the cable modem the Hughes people apparently felt like they better get some data into their lineup. The logic being TV+data=customer for cable then DBS better offer a complimentary package.

In retrospect it seems kind of paranoid and twitchy. Direct TV is a great service with its own merits and competitive position to cable.

Perhaps too much credence is given to the cable TV tripple play.

In restrospect it seems kind of paranoid and twitchy. Direct TV is a great service with its own merrits and competative position to cable.

Perhaps to much credence is given to the cable TV tripple play.
Re:DSL? by Guppy06 · 2002-12-13 11:31 · Score: 2

"What does DSL have to do with a dish service?"

They have one very important feature in common: Neither of them are cable.

DirecTV is competing directly with the cable companies (and doing damn good job of it, IMHO). The cable companies, what with their government-mandated monopoly on coax, gets to offer "deals" where you can subscribe to digital cable for X years and get "free" (or at least "cheap") cable internet service. DirecTV wanted to compete against this with their own broadband offering, but DirecWay is still too pricey and still (for the most part) requires USB. So they decided to offer DSL service as well. The theory was that, just like with Cox/Comcast/TW/etc, you could have TV and broadband on one bill. That, and you get to continue to tell your local cable company to sit on it and rotate.

Anybody know when EarthLink will lower the price of their DirecWay prices and/or offer ethernet hardware?
Re:DSL? by markhb · 2002-12-13 12:47 · Score: 2

The cable companies, what with their government-mandated monopoly on coax

It may be different where you are, but under state law here, cable companies may NOT be given an exclusive franchise by the local municipality. Rather, it's simple economics that leads to most areas having only one system: very few places (think: Manhattan) have sufficent population density to support competing cable runs.

--
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
Re:DSL? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:33 · Score: 0

well what does a Steering wheel have to do with a software company The answer is to make money, as much as possible. BTW, i find it interesting microsoft hasnt made an attempt at broadband, maybe they dont want to be a monopoly...

Re:Lightning bolt! by Markos · 2002-12-13 10:39 · Score: 0, Troll

Never before have I seen such nerds.

Just posted this myself... by da3dAlus · 2002-12-13 10:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

...but it looks like I was beat to the punch. Oh well.

I JUST signed up with DTV DSL, and my gateway was in the mail as of yesterday. I'm really pissed, but at the same time I really feel for those hundreds of folks that came to work just to find out they didn't have jobs anymore.

I am a bit pissed that not a single email has been sent out about this. Apparently people are just finding out via forums, and now /. has the news. If anyone has info, or is in the same boat as me, please post any news you get about returning your gateway and dropping service before it begins. I figure it'd just be easier to wipe my hands of the service before it even begins, and sign up with someone else.

Thanks, and good luck to those who were laid off.

--

Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

Re:Just posted this myself... by Joshuah · 2002-12-13 10:49 · Score: 1

i just signed up a month ago. $40 a month 1 year contract since i get directv service. arent they required to fullfill my year?
Re:Just posted this myself... by stu72 · 2002-12-13 11:20 · Score: 2

If you read your contract you'll likely see language to the effect that either party may cancel the contract on 30 days notice.
Re:Just posted this myself... by cphirman · 2002-12-13 11:37 · Score: 2, Informative

No, because they will no longer exist. You won't be charged any cancellation fees though and they will help you transition to a new isp.
Re:Just posted this myself... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-16 05:41 · Score: 0

Not even e-mail to their @directvinternet.com postboxes. I found out about it by trying to get to the member site after checking the statistics on the modems internal web pages.

Not affecting their TV service. by sideshow · 2002-12-13 10:39 · Score: 1

The TV part is seperate and will not be affected.

--

Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.

Duhh by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:39 · Score: 1, Insightful

Well, golly gee another DSL provider going under....

There is no money in DSL because of the crap that you need to do to get into a CO, and then on top of that you are at the Mercy of the LEC (Ma Bell) to get new customers......

Re:Duhh by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:27 · Score: 0

Not only that, but at least in my area DSL is a whole lot more expensive and slower than cable.

I have never seen any DSL offer in my area that is as attractive as my cable access. And I've had great service from the cable company too. I would say the downtime has been less than 24 hours in the last 3 or 4 years that I've had access (and I know when the Net goes down because my mail scripts that run every 15 minutes will fail).

I just hope COX stays afloat with the same prices. I'd have to have to change now!

The high price tag of theft by b.foster · 2002-12-13 10:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

Although the consumer broadband landscape is hardly a profitable area in today's business environment, the DirecTV unit's death could not be chalked up to slim margins alone. Just as they have utterly failed to prevent the theft of their premium television channels, DirecTV had placed little or no access control on their broadband network. I know this for a fact because I know of no fewer than five people who are able to get internet service from DirecTV for free, with some slightly modified equipment. Obviously, hiring a bunch of half wits to secure your network does not help the matter.

Re:The high price tag of theft by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:55 · Score: 0

I am surprized that they have failed at securing the Internet stuff. That is a 2-way service, so their server has to accept packets from a non-paying customer.
Re:The high price tag of theft by Cramer · 2002-12-13 13:47 · Score: 1

Excuse me? What does signal theft have to do with DSL? Stealing DSL is akin to stealing cable... it requires an actual physical connection to the network. Once you've bribed a telco tech to connect you to someone's DSLAM, there isn't any "modified equipment" necessary. I seriously doubt anyone's claims of stealing DSL.

(Stealing DirectWay sat. internet is a different story.)
Re:The high price tag of theft by CityZen · 2002-12-13 15:09 · Score: 1

Actually, they've made some significant (though maybe temporary) leaps in shutting down piracy. When they transitioned away from the "H" card this year, they cut off a significant percentage of the pirates, and from what I've been reading, there currently isn't any "just plug it in and it works for a long time" DirecTV hacking method.

In addition, the legal action they've been pursuing against end hackers now seems to be keeping a lot of people from pursuing this avenue.
Re:The high price tag of theft by shepd · 2002-12-13 16:05 · Score: 1

>Just as they have utterly failed [hughes.com] to prevent the theft of their premium television channels

As a Canadian who enjoyed DirecTV I take STRONG offense at your use of the word theft.

Explain to me how DirecTV lost anything when I legally pirated their service. If you can't, then you must stand corrected. And suggesting that a failed business practice of underpricing their receivers caused them financial losses is a pathetic and worn argument, which I will rebut to no end.

>Obviously, hiring a bunch of half wits [nds.com] to secure your network does not help the matter.

Those "half-wits" are rumored to have broken into the new P4 card as a retaliation against DirecTV. Not to mention of _all_ access card hacks, theirs were the ONLY cards I know of where a true access card is required in ALL hacks, due to the fact that their encryption is the only unbroken consumer encryption I know of, apart from DigiCipher and VideoCipher, neither of which were originally designed for consumer use. And supposedly VideoCipher has finally been done in as well.

NDS engineers are a hell of a lot more intelligent than your offensive post. You can paint me a criminal all you'd like, but my country supported me all those years I watched DirecTV for free, so it just won't stick. Although, unfortunately, lately ExpressVu and the CRTC recently bought the right to permanently censor Canadians from that oh-so-offensive American culture. At least my TV tower can sill pick up a couple of US stations.

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:The high price tag of theft by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 17:05 · Score: 0

If someone broadcasts a signal and it enters your body did you let them do that? No!
If you're getting hit by signals all the time why can't you listen to them! It's not fair to broadcast and then charge people with a crime for using the magical bits they find flowing their craniums every second of the day.
Re:The high price tag of theft by shepd · 2002-12-13 18:51 · Score: 1

>It's not fair to broadcast and then charge people with a crime for using the magical bits they find flowing their craniums every second of the day.

Fun thing to think about, related to this.

It was said that during WWII an ally in Japan heard an enemy broadcast through her fillings. It is likely this is nothing more than folk lore, but either way consider that it is true for a moment.

What if this same broadcast were a cell phone in the US? What if it were scrambled cable TV audio? What if it were the audio stream of a for-fee audio broadcasting station?

In the US this person would likely have their tooth ripped out of their head, and could go to jail for their illicit act. Now, for all those who consider piracy outright theft, you would have to support this. To not support this is to support theft whenever the circumstances suit you, and that isn't very moral, is it?

And that's just one of the many reasons why piracy isn't theft. Especially when it comes to signals purposely directed at you and I.

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:The high price tag of theft by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 04:12 · Score: 0

Nice troll.
Re:The high price tag of theft by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-17 22:04 · Score: 0

you and your fucking sig

All of them will shut down by vivek7006 · 2002-12-13 10:40 · Score: 0

unless they bring the damn price down!!

Is this also affecting DirecPC? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:40 · Score: 0

Or is that another company entirely......

Go figure by usurper_ii · 2002-12-13 10:41 · Score: 0, Troll

1. billed as broadband
2. crappy service. Dial-up faster...
3. 70.00 a month = no customers
4. profit ???
= F*cked Company poster boy

--
Ron Paul

Re:Go figure by McFly69 · 2002-12-13 10:50 · Score: 2

no.. They charge $49.99 a month.

--

NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...
Re:Go figure by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 10:55 · Score: 2

It was $49.99/month, and the vast majority of our 160,000 customers got good speeds. For those that didn't, our service was no worse than any other ISP offering DSL service on the same phone line.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Go figure by Rastor · 2002-12-13 11:23 · Score: 1

I think the original poster was confusing DirecTV DSL with the satellite-based internet service...
Re:Go figure by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · 2002-12-13 12:04 · Score: 2

I think a lot of people do. I think that had a lot to do with their problem. Even though I knew better, I stayed away from them, because I figured this was going to happen sooner or later. There are enough people clued into the fact that Satellite Internet sucks. They should have called it DirectDSL...

--
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Re:Go figure by usurper_ii · 2002-12-13 14:35 · Score: 1

Actually, I was. Now I feel kind of stupid. I work for a Pegasus dealer, which is a company licensed to sell DirecTV in certain markets...so I keep up with DirecTV stuff to some degree. And I have never heard of them offering anything except satellite-based Net.

We had a demo of Pegasus Direct (Powered by DirecPC) going for a short period of time. It sucked bad, in my opinion, and it was 70.00 a month.

--
Ron Paul

pretty friendly provider by madHomer · 2002-12-13 10:42 · Score: 1

This is a shame. For only $50, they were pretty power user friendly unlike the bells (but not as much as speakeasy). They gave out static IP's as part of their default package and they had no problem setting up DNS for you so you could point a domain name to your static IP. Let's hope covad can survive so there is at least one non-baby bell option open in the DSL world.

(Yeah, I know, $50 is still a lot of money, but a static IP package from Pac Bell is gonna be way over that price.)

Re:pretty friendly provider by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 11:01 · Score: 2

Yep, over 10,000 domains set up for free. That means over 6% of our user base has domain hosting. Still more do their own hosting, which we allow (officially residential only, but we don't care unless you're causing a problem).

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:pretty friendly provider by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:06 · Score: 0

A static IP package from SBCIS is $65. That's only $15 more than the PPPoE package.

Speakeasy! by sterno · 2002-12-13 10:42 · Score: 5, Informative

I highly recommend speakeasy if you need another option. The provide good service and have the smoothest installation I've seen. I also got a free PS/2 out of them when I signed up :)

--
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service

Re:Speakeasy! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:48 · Score: 0

Ooooh, you got a free ancient obsolete computer from the 80s. The best thing about those machines was the jingle. "How ya gonna do it? Pee Ess Two it!"
Re:Speakeasy! by Stonent1 · 2002-12-13 10:51 · Score: 1

I also got a free PS/2 out of them when I signed up :)

Mouse, keyboard or this?
Re:Speakeasy! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:18 · Score: 0

mod this baby up. speakeasy is a wonderful ISP!

I used to be a speakeasy customer, then i moved and tried telocity (directvdsl) for a year due to its low price for a static IP ($49/month). looks like my decision to return to speakeasy just got easier.

boycott cable and telephone companies. they are monopolies bent on providing the poorest quality of service to the highest number of people.
Re:Speakeasy! by AnotherScratchMonkey · 2002-12-13 11:25 · Score: 0

Agreed. I had my boss get SpeakEasy instead of DirecTV DSL because of SpeakEasy's friendliness to Linux and servers. I'd get it myself in a heartbeat if I were within DSL range of my telco.

Alas, I have to put up with ATTBI for cable modem service. When it works (which in fairness is most of the time) it's great, but when something is broken, the "What's Linux?" front-line tech support is abominable.
Re:Speakeasy! by Col.+Klink+(retired) · 2002-12-13 11:25 · Score: 2

Since you didn't provide a link, I'll provide one to speakeasy.

If anyone subscribes with the above link, I'd even split the $50 referral fee!

--
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
Re:Speakeasy! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:16 · Score: 0

Thanks for the tip! I was *this close* to switching to SBC.

You may be in a new tax bracket this year...
Re:Speakeasy! by edgedmurasame · 2002-12-13 12:45 · Score: 1

Didnt know Speakeasy was *that* desperate to get rid of some fine IBM equipment. Sure could have used a Server 95A. ;) (Seriously, though, I'd still recommend Speakeasy, given their generous (and possibly unmatched) TOS)

--
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
Re:Speakeasy! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:13 · Score: 0

Speakeasy is in no danger of going out of business. Speakeasy DSL is fairly pricey, but they're very nice lads, and are a huge supporter of online gaming. Sign up now and get a month free!

www.speakeasy.net/dsl/tso.

note: I am not an employee of speakeasy.net.
Re:Speakeasy! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:56 · Score: 0

Another nice thing about speakeasy is that they take care of their network. During the flurry of IIS worms a little over a year ago, they gave fair notice to all users and disconnected service of whos IP address was still scanning after a grace period.
I wish all isps did the same. I still find entries from them in my logs from other isps.
Re:Speakeasy! by cliffiecee · 2002-12-13 13:58 · Score: 1

Another vote for Speakeasy... A couple of months ago the mailman hands me a package. I open it up and lo! A Speakeasy coffee mug! No warning that I was going to get one; it just shows up. Sure I paid for it through my monthly bill, but it's simple stuff like that that makes loyal customers. (Or maybe I'm just easily bought. BTW the service is rock solid for me in NYC; I only remember ONE outage in ~2 years of service.)

Linux support? by chunkwhite86 · 2002-12-13 10:43 · Score: 1, Informative

I don't have ANY broadband internet options in my area, and no telco or cable company has plans to offer it either. And I live 45 mins from Washington DC. Very Sad.

Last time I looked into Satellite broadband internet, you had to have a special card installed in your Windows or Mac machine. Thats right - no Linux support.

Not sure if DirecTV offered a Linux compatible satellite internet solution, but I think I would have noticed it if they did.

It certainly is frustrating conducting internet business at 56k...

--
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

Re:Linux support? by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 11:04 · Score: 4, Informative

Not sure if DirecTV offered a Linux compatible satellite internet solution, but I think I would have noticed it if they did.

As far as I know, you're correct, DirecWay and DirecPC are Windows-only (maybe Mac too, but I'm not even sure of that).

As opposed to DirecTV Broadband, which has UNIX installation instructions in the manual.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Linux support? by Cramer · 2002-12-13 13:54 · Score: 1

It's windows only for the odd software they use to make the service look faster than it is (I've not taken it apart, but it sounds like a local packet proxy engine to combat round trip times for TCP packet acknowledgments.) It'll work with almost any network gear, but at annoyingly low speeds -- not bad for packets moving 50k to 75k miles. Each way.
Re:Linux support? by cswiii · 2002-12-14 14:41 · Score: 2

Let me guess, you're in Sterling/Ashburn, too.

I can empathise.
Re:Linux support? by cswiii · 2002-12-14 14:47 · Score: 1

Oh yeah, I meant to tell you -- I'm looking into Luminary... they apparently have a 2400 sq. mile wireless broadband coverage area, much of it out here. I called them, they're plenty sympathetic to the plight of those in Loudoun county. Prices seem a bit high, but better than anything else out here.

They also told me something interesting -- basically, they have to come out to your place and do a site survey as to whether or not they need to put up an anntenna... BUT, according to them anyway, under the 1996 Telecom act, HOAs can't deny them access to put up any kind of equipment that allows users/customers to get broadband access.

Number: 703-787-7700
More info at broadbandreports.com:
http://www.broadbandreports .com/reviews/2057?r=163

A more concise version: by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:43 · Score: 0

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 1234567890 .,;$!%()

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-12-13 10:44 · Score: 5, Funny

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Portland Jobs. by MAXOMENOS · 2002-12-13 10:46 · Score: 5, Informative

So, anybody gonna be hiring in the Portland area in a couple months?

Stream, XO, Powell's, Wal-Mart, Plaid Pantry, Fred Meyer ....

Oh, you want a high-paying IT job? Better start thinking about your own business, and I don't mean consulting. It's death valley for IT in Oregon right now.

--
Finding God in a Dog

Re:Portland Jobs. by Lucas+Membrane · 2002-12-13 11:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Try U-Haul, Ryder, or whoever rents out those trailers. One of my friends decided to move out of town and found that there was a shortage of trailers for rent, as they have all been rented 1-way outbound. You might get a job retrieving them or building more.
Re:Portland Jobs. by g00z · 2002-12-13 11:48 · Score: 1

Wal-Mart, Fred Meyers? Right now in Portland you would be LUCKY to get a job there even. It's not just the tech sector here, it's everything. I think the whole state of Oregon might be on unemployment right now. I know people with masters degrees that can't get a job flipping burgers at Mcdonalds.

A funny story about how bad it is in Portland right now: A few months ago, a position for a waitress opened up at a resturant in SE. Apparently, nearly 300 people applied for the job.

What is going on Oregon??!?!

--
"The Wright brothers were the first to fly with a heavier-than-air machine, but boy did they have a lousy plane"
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:57 · Score: 0

No kidding. 2 out of 3 people at ITEC this week were looking for jobs. It was downright sad.

I just got denied an entry level sysadmin position. (With an MS CS and *nix experience coming out my kazoo.)
Re:Portland Jobs. by crgrace · 2002-12-13 12:02 · Score: 2

Is Plaid Panty still around? Damn. What about Bob's Handy-Panty on Milwaukee Blvd? I have some good memories of hanging around the slushy machine during all 4 or 5 sunny days in the summer...
Re:Portland Jobs. by Colonel+Panic · 2002-12-13 12:39 · Score: 1

Stream, XO, Powell's, Wal-Mart, Plaid Pantry, Fred Meyer ....

Hey, I'm actually starting to think that Powell's would be a good gig... benefits and discounts on books. Problem is, it's apparently pretty hard to get in there for those very reasons....
Re:Portland Jobs. by Lucas+Membrane · 2002-12-13 13:11 · Score: 2
Over the past 3 years in Portland:
- Tech job openings -- down 95%
- Tech workers seeking work -- up 1000%
- Salaries for tech job new hires -- down 40%
Net result -- You've got a better shot opening a falaffel stand on eBay.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Leper · 2002-12-13 14:38 · Score: 1

Kavi.com probably needs a competent unix (mostly linux last I knew) sysadmin, they may not pay for shit but atleast you'd be working with cool people who for the most part "get it." I wouldn't let the fact there's no position being actively advertised via the usual routes deter you. Sooner or later they will have to find my replacement.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 16:39 · Score: 0

I know people with masters degrees that can't get a job flipping burgers at Mcdonalds.

I know people with masters degrees who can't flip a burger. They can't get jobs at McDonalds because they can't do anything.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 16:40 · Score: 0

Well there is one job in Portland. NetIQ downtown is hiring right now for a Senior Software Engineer with 5-7 years heavy C/C++, Database, Windows and Solaris, and analytical processing experience. You can email resumes to goatroper@whatthefuck.com if you are interested.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 16:50 · Score: 0

If you have real skills and experience and a decent network of contacts who have jobs, Portland is no worse than anywhere else. I've been busy this year and I know consultants who are turning work away.

If all you have is worthless certifications, a blog you wrote in PHP, and a network of unemployed friends who post to ./ and jack off all day long whining about how they can't get a job, you're fucked. In Portland and everywhere else.

Sys admin? Did you think real companies hosted their sites out of their phone closet over a DSL line? The companies that are still in business outsource their hosting, and the only admins they need have 5+ years on Exchange and Windows NT. The only companies that need f/t Unix sys admins are Fortune 1000 and ISPs, and Portland is light on both of those categories.

The last time I interviewed programmers for a web job more than one candidate showed up looking like a homeless teenager on a face piercing orgy. The days of getting a job based on tattoos and skateboarder cred are over--get a haircut, let your skin heal, and wash your fucking clothes and hair. And learn to spell so you don't have to put (sp?) in every other sentence.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 20:02 · Score: 0

What type of work are you doing that keeps you so busy? I found Portland to be real lacking in device drivers positions this last year. I do take baths and have many years of experience so those do not appear to be the reasons.

Sincerely,

One of those unemployed people.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Bryce · 2002-12-13 20:46 · Score: 2

So, anybody gonna be hiring in the Portland area in a couple months?

Oh, you want a high-paying IT job? Better start thinking about your own business, and I don't mean consulting. It's death valley for IT in Oregon right now. The
Open Source Development Lab in Beaverton is hiring - in fact, they just posted a new job req for a Perl software developer _today_. Decent pay, non-profit, Linux, 100% IT-focused, well-supported by IBM, Intel, HP, et al., and you get to keep copyright on what you write if you want, so long as you also give it away under the GPL. If you're in Oregon, why *aren't* you trying to get hired by these guys??? There's few such companies anywhere else in the US, after all.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 23:18 · Score: 0

You're full of shit. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the official unemployement rate in Oregon is scarecely better than it when 10 months ago, when it more than 8%. Data here. That's like 2% higher than the US as a whole, so get your facts straight.

Personally I know several Oregonians who have no visible tattoos or piercings and have been laid off from jobs in IT, and I know several more who are worried.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Artifex · 2002-12-14 01:22 · Score: 2

Oh, you want a high-paying IT job? Better start thinking about your own business, and I don't mean consulting. It's death valley for IT in Oregon right now.

When I moved into the area for an ISP engineering job, I thought I had found heaven, at least in terms of the scenery, the relative quiet, and the smaller city size. But then I got laid off, and had to move back home again. Now I'm trying to find a job back in Texas, and Portland and Oregon's coast have to be relegated to future vacation plans.

--
Get off my launchpad!
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 13:17 · Score: 0

You're full of shit... get your facts straight.

I didn't cite any labor or unemployment rates, only my own personal experience. What facts should I get straight? I know Oregon has a high unemployment rate--I live here. I also know that the majority of the layoffs have been in manufacturing, transportation, and other areas that have nothing to do with programming or managing servers. Just because Intel lays off minimum wage assemblers and solderers and the newspapers call those high-tech jobs doesn't mean anything.

I know lots of unemployed people. Some of them are friends, who I'd gladly recommend or hire. But most of them don't have enough relevant experience or real skills, so they don't get on the short list of candidates for any jobs.

Most of Portland's dot-bomb companies died just like everywhere else. But those companies were heavy on "entrepreneurs" and tech people who couldn't have got real jobs anywhere else anyway; they were working at Starbucks and Borders before the dot-com boom and they're standing in line for those jobs now.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 13:24 · Score: 0

What type of work are you doing that keeps you so busy? I found Portland to be real lacking in device drivers positions this last year.

Database. Web development. E-commerce. Optimizing. Debugging. The works out there. I know other consultants who are busier than I am, mainly people with security experience.

I don't know about device drivers. I don't do that kind of work so I don't have any contacts there. Back when Tektronix was making printers I know they farmed out device driver work, but now Xerox owns that business and they're in the toilet. There's always Intel but you need good contacts to get steady work from them.

Cultivate a network of professional contacts and friends who can introduce you to more people. Don't concentrate on using your resume to compete. Most job leads come from contacts and referrals.
Re:Portland Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 20:54 · Score: 0

Thanks for the reply. I just need to get to know people that do not work for dying companies. I guess working in product development for manufacturing companies has its risks.

Recommended New ISP? by KarateBob · 2002-12-13 10:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm on DirecTV DSL right now...so I have 60-90 days to switch to new ISP?

Funny, last night I was talking to my family about which ISP we should switch to, because my DirecTV DSL was down for about 90 mins, and once it was back up (past 11 pm PST) we went to DSL Reports. I looked at good backbones, Level(3) and SBC look good.

I'm lookin at PacBell DSL By SBC.

Does anyone have any good alternative for aDSL with a Static IP? (We are a family with a Linksys router and several switches)

Re:Recommended New ISP? by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 11:09 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm on DirecTV DSL right now...so I have 60-90 days to switch to new ISP?

If you stay with DirecTV DSL, we'll try to migrate you to a new ISP and make it as painless as possible (no guarantees about that, but we'll do our best). If you cancel, you have to wait for the LEC to release your line before you can sign up with another DSL provider, so you're looking at around a month of downtime if you choose to go that route. However, I have no idea what the new ISP will be, and they may not offer a static IP. Check the web site (don't call!); there may be more info on Tuesday.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Recommended New ISP? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:12 · Score: 0

SBC has a $65 static IP package for residential locations. It's also SDSL with a 1.5/1.5 max. (The regular $50 package is PPPoE, 768/128 max.)
Re:Recommended New ISP? by 56 · 2002-12-13 11:45 · Score: 1

Didn't you read http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/13/20 21211&mode=thread&tid=158 this slashdot story?
Re:Recommended New ISP? by Wavicle · 2002-12-13 11:57 · Score: 2

Are you sure about this? A search for "SDSL" on SBC's web site turned up nothing but glossary hits. The $65/mo service they do have is 5 static IPs on an ADSL 1.5/128 connection.

--
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Re:Recommended New ISP? by Wavicle · 2002-12-13 12:07 · Score: 2

I have SBC's "Enhanced DSL", which is now called something else. It's 5 static IP addresses on an ADSL line. Every complaint I have ever heard from someone around here about SBC's DSL service has been related to PPPoE. Since my IP addresses are static, I haven't had those problems. The quality of the service has been very high. In two years, I think I've noticed a total of maybe 8 hours cumulative when I wanted to use the internet and couldn't, about 3 hours of that time was at 2 o'clock in the morning when they were probably resetting the DSLAM or something.

They also let me run servers on my static IP, I don't know if they've changed that rule or not. Not that you could run much of a server on 128K, it's still enough for email and a web site for friends and family.

--
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Re:Recommended New ISP? by I_redwolf · 2002-12-13 12:43 · Score: 2

If they don't offer a static ip I'm up shit creek without a paddle. So is my email, ftp and everything else. I need static ip. needs it.
Re:Recommended New ISP? by Badanov · 2002-12-13 12:52 · Score: 1

DirectvInternet was my first experience with DSL service. I was very pleased with their service. I went for it mainly becuase of the static IP. The service was soo reliable, the tech help was knowledgable and professional, and the service itself was sweetly Linux friendly. Too bad to see them go, but I already have a replacement DSLISP ready to go Monday morning. 30 days my ass. Watch me go!

--
Dawn of the Dead
Re:Recommended New ISP? by skeedlelee · 2002-12-13 12:53 · Score: 2

I'm on DTV DSL right now as well. That you're looking at the PacBell DSL service and mentioned the SBC carrier brought up a question in my mind...

As far as I know DTV DSL was last miled by SBC, and near as I can tell SBC is the ONLY game in my town that is even remotely affordable. When I last looked there were a bunch of services but all of them used SBC's last mile service. Does this mean that I'll see basically the same service over the same lines or do the actual ISP's have all that much effect on the service quality? I never took advantage of the hosting service, haven't ever used the email account they gave me, so I was pretty much just working with DTV to get at SBC DSL. Seems like the worst service problems (slow downs etc) would be due to the last-mile carrier, not the ISP.

That said, DirectTV's service rocked. There was the occasional short outage but the transfer rate was awesome. Maybe that was because no one was using the service. Their service department was great too. They spent a bunch of time with me to track down that I basically had a crappy phone cord plugged into it (200' unshielded) and when you moved the cable around it would work for a bit then stop. Nightmare to diagnose that one. Follow that up with a flakey NIC connector on a laptop (figured that out when the cat was batting at the cord and connection went in and out) and you have a few irritating things to debug. They were quite happy to work through it and all at no charge.

Anyone know the legals when ISP's go down? Can they just sell our contracts to someone else and change the level of service with no way out for us? Do we get identical service for the remainder of our contract? Maybe changes with an opt out period? There was a seemingly unsubstantiated rant on DSLreports against DTV DSL regarding what happened when they left a market when I was shopping and am suddenly a bit nervous.
Re:Recommended New ISP? by waferbuster · 2002-12-13 13:30 · Score: 1

I'm in Portland, and I have good service with Easystreet.com. With their Enthusiast package, they are fine with servers, static IP, etc. Once I did have to wait almost 30 seconds for a tech to answer the line, but other than that the phone is answered by a real person within a couple of rings. Good people, too.

JMHO, YMMV

--
I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!
Re:Recommended New ISP? by Jace+of+Fuse! · 2002-12-13 17:45 · Score: 2

I'll just log off. Screw it. I've had many dealings with all of the possible ISPs in my area, and they all blow goat cheese. All of them. They have problems for which no excuses exist. Their employees are incompetent, their service sucks, and they bold face lie to customers.

I joined up with Telocity, went through the DirectTV change over, and have had no real problems with this service since day one (not counting minor very short down-times). I've dealt with all of the others in my area while setting up for friends and family, and had a second DSL line in this house through Bellsouth that was LITERALLY offline more than it was online.

I can do without until someone that doesn't suck comes along. I just hope Speakeasy becomes available in my area.

--

"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.

Noooooo! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 10:47 · Score: 0, Funny

I am saddened deeply by this. I am just a poor Afghanistanian boy, with a C64 to access the internet. In order to speed up my computer, I got DSL through Hughes, and now my C64 plays movies and games like "Max Payne" and "Kill Saddam!". But now all that will be gone. I will be back to my C64 with Q-Bert, if I still have the 15.25 Metre disk (Our technology is so old). I wish I was a real boy. I thought DSL was going to turn my wodden legs into real legs, and I actually was feeling a bit of a difference, but now it's gone. Damn you rotten afghan economy! You made them shut down, you bastards!

Oh well, it has been fun. My warmest regards to Mr. Katz, and to you all. I don't think I will be back as my 300 baud modem will not be fast enough. I wish I would have made a slashdot account when I could, but I am just a poor boy and cannot afford it.

Good bye all.

Slashdot story predicted here... by dagg · 2002-12-13 10:49 · Score: 1

Here
--Psychic Smelly Slutty Smart Girl

--
Sex - Find It

MOD PARENT UP by Coke+in+a+Can · 2002-12-13 10:52 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Bravo. I spent the last of my mod points last night, but if I still had a point left...

+1, Insightful

Their Modem/fake router by McFly69 · 2002-12-13 10:52 · Score: 4, Interesting

Does this mean I stil have to mail them their modem or I get to keep it permently? I would nto mind keeping it so I can hack around with it. Any ideas? Can it be used as a normal DSL modem?

The funny thing is.. there is a sticker on it and it still says Telocity.com on it.

--

NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...

Re:Their Modem/fake router by stratjakt · 2002-12-13 11:10 · Score: 3, Funny

Once I rented about 6 SNES games and a bunch of shlockey horror movies for a weekend beer drinking/game playing/movie watching bender with a couple friends.

Lo and behold, there was a big "out of business" sign on the video store when I went back.

I kept the games and movies!

Thank you Blockbuster, for driving the little mom and pop stores into the dust and letting me pocket a few choice games!!!

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

I would start a class action lawsuit by cdf12345 · 2002-12-13 10:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

I would seek a "cancellation fee", hell the wireless and satelite companies have been doing it to us for years, now it's time to get one back.

Why is it ok for them to charge us to cancel but they can stop providing service at a moments notice and not be liable.

Kind of a double standard.

And yes I know it's probably written somewhere in the contacts that they are not liable.. blah blah blah. It's simply unfair to the consumer.

--
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.

Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by JJAnon · 2002-12-13 11:07 · Score: 2, Informative

Um.. they are not stopping service - you don't even have to RTFA - just read the post which explains that they will work to transition our roughly 160,000 customers to another provider.

So you will have service, it will just be with another service provider.
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by T3kno · 2002-12-13 11:08 · Score: 1

So, help put DirecTV out of business and pirate the satellite signal. They make it fairly easy to do with a PC and some emulation software, might as well. Crappy companies don't deserve customers, they do however deserve to get bought out by larger more crappy companies such as Echostar. Why pay when the provide service like this?

--
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by The+Kow · 2002-12-13 12:10 · Score: 2, Funny

Did you get them to sign a 1-year contract with you?

--
Moo
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by drinkypoo · 2002-12-13 13:48 · Score: 2

"will work to" == "will try to" - If no one else thinks they can make it profitable they won't be interested in buying them, or someone will buy them and change the TOS so it looks more like ISDN than DSL. Well, actually, it already does, when you look at the speeds, though ISDN usually doesn't have any nasty latency to speak of.
There's no guarantee that the transfer will occur and there's no guarantee that the new owners will KEEP running the service if someone DOES buy them.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by JJAnon · 2002-12-13 17:55 · Score: 1

Since we're getting pedantic :-)

== != =

I think what you meant was will work to = will try to
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by drinkypoo · 2002-12-14 06:40 · Score: 2

Yes, that's why I used == (is equal to) and not = (assignment)

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I would start a class action lawsuit by rjamestaylor · 2002-12-15 21:01 · Score: 1

Speaking of pirating signals -- are you hosting the (assuming it's on) Lewis/Klitschko fight?
Just kidding!

--
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello

too bad by nomadicGeek · 2002-12-13 10:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

They saved me from low bandwidth hell a couple of years ago. They were the first to offer broadband service to my house.

$50/month with a static IP address. Hughes spent some money when they bought Telocity. When I first got the service (Telocity days) there were a lot of dropped packets and a few problems but it was better than nothing. Over the last year, it has been great. Never goes down, fast transfers.

I guess I need to go find a new provider now. Good luck finding a static IP for $50/month. At least I write off the service as a business expense so Uncle Sam takes part of the hit as well. Serves them right for their dipshit telecom policies.

GREAT! by Dylan_t_p · 2002-12-13 10:59 · Score: 1

now I'll never get broadband.......not that I wanted to get limited but since I live out in the country it was my only shot......

*goes into room and cries*

Why do I get the feeling.. by McFly69 · 2002-12-13 11:04 · Score: 2

Why do I get the feelign the same thing is going to happen, as when Flashcom, Winfire and part of megapath went down, a large number of dsl modems will be sold on ebay?

--

NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...

NOW I'M PISSED by bgog · 2002-12-13 11:04 · Score: 1

I want someone from directTv broadband to explain why I got a call TWO days ago trying to sell me directtv DSL? I didn't take them up on the offer but why are they selling to service to new people two days before they shutdown. BAHHH

Re:NOW I'M PISSED by pyros · 2002-12-13 11:44 · Score: 2

All those people in the marketing and sales departments were just canned with no warning.
Re:NOW I'M PISSED by bgog · 2002-12-13 18:59 · Score: 1

I'm digging really really deep... There it is, I found a sliver of sypothy. Excuse me if I find it difficult to feel bad for telemarketers who loose their jobs. (did find a sliver though)
Re:NOW I'M PISSED by Phroggy · 2002-12-14 15:27 · Score: 2

I want someone from directTv broadband to explain why I got a call TWO days ago trying to sell me directtv DSL? I didn't take them up on the offer but why are they selling to service to new people two days before they shutdown. BAHHH

Two days ago, only upper management knew, and they didn't tell any of the rest of us.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;

Hiring in Portland by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:07 · Score: 2, Informative

So, anybody gonna be hiring in the Portland area in a couple months?

No, they aren't. Leave. Leave now. I searched for vain for a year for any position in Portland/Vancouver after being RIF'd.

There are no jobs in Portland.

Run. Run very fast.

Re:Hiring in Portland by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 20:23 · Score: 0

Stay the hell away from Miami while you are at it! Let's say we meet in St. Luis?

WHATEVER you do... avoid the FAP!!! by TheGreenGoogler · 2002-12-13 11:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

Stay away from Hughes "Directway" Sattelite Internet!!! They have a policy affectionately known as "FAP" (Fair access policy) that effectively turns your "high speed" connection into something closer to dialup... for more information, see this page.

Re:WHATEVER you do... avoid the FAP!!! by stratjakt · 2002-12-13 11:48 · Score: 1

Thats very insightful

If, of course, that was what we were talking about.

But it's not.

We're talking about the DSL service, not the satellite 'broadband'.

You're understandably confused, so was the public - and thats a big reason its gone now.

That and employees who wasted their companies time screwing around on slashdot when they should have been helping their company turn a profit.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:WHATEVER you do... avoid the FAP!!! by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 15:54 · Score: 2

DirecWay has nothing to do with DirecTV Broadband. not even really the same company, just the same logo.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;

Serves You Right! by Necron69 · 2002-12-13 11:10 · Score: 5, Informative

All I can say is about time, and it serves you right.

I got nothing but crap from DIRECTV Broadband in the wake of the Rhythms collapse last fall. Despite being guaranteed that my SDSL service would continue, it shut down mid-September. I tried for three months to get it repaired and got repeated promises that it would be fixed. Finally, I "cancelled" (how can you cancel non-existant service?) in frustration. Three months later, the bills starting rolling in. DIRECTV was trying to charge me for two months of service I never got, and they claimed that I cancelled my service!

Needless to say, I was furiously pissed. I spent six months trading letters and faxes, got sent to collections, appealed, and was denied. I finally deemed the issue not worth my time and paid the stupid bill.

So, F*ck You, DIRECTV. You got what you deserved. I've spent the last year at 26kbps dialup. Thank God that AT&T/Comcast will finally be completing their broadband upgrade in my city next month.

- Necron69

Re:Serves You Right! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:23 · Score: 0

if you worked for a living instead of picking your ass all day you'd know that any time a decision to shut a company down is made, you don't go cutting all spending, advertising and sales in the weeks before it is announced.

that would shoot yourself in the foot if you decided not to shut down and would also kill employee morale if they had the feeling that something bad was happening because they were all told to stop doing what they do. (and the free soda machine suddenly got a 65c price on them)
Re:Serves You Right! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

I can never understand why people pay bills they do not owe.

Did you complain to the BBB?
Did you write a letter to the President of DirecTV?
Did you sue in small claims court?
Re:Serves You Right! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:06 · Score: 0

I must admit; I have AT&T, and I am very happy with the service (a surprise to me, as I seldom find mega corps have good service).

They do throw up a line of cannon fodder in tech support, but once you blast through them, they have genuinely knowledgable professionals.

Hopefully, the service levels won't decline with the Comcast acquisition (and resulting reduction in competition).
Re:Serves You Right! by edgedmurasame · 2002-12-13 12:09 · Score: 1

Sounds like you'll be saying that to AT&T/Comcast, depending on what kind of service you get from them; that bunch isnt any better than what you're left with now. Then again, broadband in my area (a ton of DSL providers in Ameritech territory and TW/AOHell for cable) has either the best or the worst. Next time you say "F*ck you" to an ISP, use a megaphone for added effect. Hopefully you dont have to say it to DirecTV/Hughes for their TV service ;)

--
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
Re:Serves You Right! by The+Wicked+Priest · 2002-12-14 09:39 · Score: 1

I think you've just answered your own question. All those steps involve time, effort, and money. For many people, much of the time, it's easier just to pay the bill than to fight it.

And don't think the corporations don't know that, and count on it.

--
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

It's Just the Terrestrial DSL by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:10 · Score: 0

Keep in mind, only the terrestrial-based DSL service is being Sh*tcanned. The Satellite-based DSL (DirectWay, hawked on DirectTV by that hot redhead) is still going strong).

AMF

Read the Classifieds by flyondawall · 2002-12-13 11:13 · Score: 2, Offtopic

I posted a Programming position in the Oregonian and all I got was 20 replies. I mean, just cus your out of a job doesn't mean you should stop looking. Where are all the real programmers? So is the market really that bad? Flyondawall

Re:Read the Classifieds by Leper · 2002-12-13 14:20 · Score: 1

The market is horrid for some things, unix (by which I don't mean HP-UX or AIX) system administration certainly seems to be unheard of. If you're still hiring you should post the requirements to this thread.
Re:Read the Classifieds by cmckay · 2002-12-13 15:23 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Weeeeeeeee! I noticed you're using Opera... good choice! It's a fantastic browser.

Okay, back to homework now.
Re:Read the Classifieds by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 18:30 · Score: 0

I'm an out-of-work programmer living in the midwest. Hire me, if you need a "real" programmer that can work from home (I can't move up there :)

Respond and i'll give you my credentials and contact info
Re:Read the Classifieds by geekoid · 2002-12-13 20:40 · Score: 2

I live in Tualatin, What skill sets are you looking for?
I have work, but things have seemed shakey lately.
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I've been burned enough to see the signs.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Hmm by ackthpt · 2002-12-13 11:14 · Score: 1

Guy I work with just mailed out his Telocity DSL modem this morning, since he jumped ship over price. He had no issued with DirecTV, even liked having the static IP. Now he's having a bit of a problem with the customer service where he's moved to (Charter), they offer some rebate or reduced cost of service and now can't seem to remember any such agreement, even though he has a signed piece of paper.

Survival of the least fit, once again.

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Hah! by supabeast! · 2002-12-13 11:20 · Score: 0, Flamebait

This is what those assholes get for firing me after I used profanity in the DirecPC customer service database!

FUCK YOU, Hughes!

It was way too expensive by pardasaniman · 2002-12-13 11:24 · Score: 1

Here in Canada, you payed $45 for a monthly thang, + a separate ISP. You upload via ISP and connect to directTV via ISP. Download via directTV. PLUS install a satellite. Simply not worth it

Re:It was way too expensive by JVert · 2002-12-13 11:56 · Score: 1

Thanks...
We've actually learned alot from this post.

Really.
Thanks.

Course, Canada now hates you.
Re:It was way too expensive by The+Wicked+Priest · 2002-12-14 09:35 · Score: 1

You're talking about the satellite service. The article is talking about the DSL service, which is completely separate. The sat. service will remain.

--
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

from the ashes by m_chan · 2002-12-13 11:25 · Score: 5, Funny

I guess it may be their last post, but this operation has always been kind of a "phoenix", rising from the ashes. (Or perhaps soiling themselves with said same.)

Here's why:
DirecTV DSL, a subsidiary of Hughes, which is in turn owned by General Motors, was formerly known as Telocity until Hughes purchased them in July 2001.

In my part of the country, the switch to the corporate entity Telocity occurred at about the same time as Northpoint bankruptcy forced a CLEC switch from Northpoint to Covad for some customers of Megapath. In October 2000, Megapath had purchased the assets and customer base of an ISP. Megapath kept the business customers of that ISP and spun off their residential customers to Chicago-based Telocity.

And the name of that ISP? Formerly-St. Louis-based Phoenix Networks, founded by a guy named Peter Roberts, who evolved a one-man network integration business into a rapid-growth internet service. Of course that Phoenix should not to be confused with Phoenix the BIOS that has the legal team that is making Phoenix the superlative web browser change it's name, none of which is happening in Phoenix.

Dizzy yet? I know I am. Hope I got at least the broad strokes right. Anyway, I'm glad I got off that Merry-Go-Round during what seemed to be a weekend-stay at MegaPath, though I supported a few friends throught the multiple changes that followed. Maybe the ride finally is coming to a stop.

Re:from the ashes by slam+smith · 2002-12-13 18:41 · Score: 1

Your bringing back really bad memories. I remember Phoenixdsl. I jumped off the roller coaster when MegaPath sold the remnants to telocity. Phoenixdsl was screwed up but telocity when I talked to them about transitioning over was so unbelievably bad and disorganized, that I took the offer to end my 2 yr contract early. Well, at least I thought I was off. Soon there aft er telocity was aquired by Hughes and then they decide that I'm really not gone. And they start charging my credit card and also backcharge me for all the monthes they had missed. I needless to say was pissed. Some 250 dollars in charges for a service that I no longer had, and had opted out of. They made it really obvious that they had no intetion of doing the right thing and refunding the money. And oh by the way we want the modem back that megapath gave you when they terminated your contract. To make a long story short, I eventually ended up having to go to my credit card company and reverse the charges. My guess is that I wasn't the only one they tried to screw.

--
My Weblog
Re:from the ashes by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 23:28 · Score: 0

I was signed up with Megapath back when northpoint was still around, also jumped ship at the change to telocity. I sent in 5 FAXED copies (and one by certified mail) declining my "switch" and opting out of the contract. I thought it was over with, when 4 months later they send me a bill for over $400 for the previous 6 months of "service". Luckily I was without any credit cards, and was sending a monthly check to megapath, so they really didn't have much recourse.

Multiple phone calls (none returned) and several letters later, they mysteriously stopped billing me. The line remained active for another month or so (when I last checked it) until I moved away.

They never asked for the router back, though.... On the other hand, I wouldn't have given it to them anyways, I *bought* that router. It wasn't leased.

These days, as much as I hate big coglomerates, RoadRunner has treated me fairly well. Only one account screwup (when I moved) and fairly reliable service.
Re:from the ashes by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-21 09:36 · Score: 0

HEAD UP FOLKS!
All former Directtv dsl customers in the Bell South areas are being switched to Bells dsl without even asking the cusomers!!!!! (this I heard from a former dtv dsl tech)

Goodbye Telocity by jpennywise · 2002-12-13 11:25 · Score: 1

Well, it was a good run... kinda. I don't think they ever did get their OSS working, and seeing as they weren't ever going to be profitable this is a smart move by DirecTV. My condolences to the employees, they're a great bunch of people. As one of the first engineers (ok, more like fifth) on the Telocity DSL Gateway (or X1 as we called it back then), all I have to say is this: Who the hell is Phroggy?

Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:52 · Score: 0

Who the hell is Phroggy?
Well, he has a pic of himself on his webpage...
Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 12:44 · Score: 0

a designer of the X1, eh? mind telling me the differences between it and the X2, and how i can hack it to

A. support standard ADSL connections in Bridged, PPPoA, or PPPoE mode?

B. change the config file and uncap the dsl? hell, service will be gone in a month anyway, why not fuck with them now...

C. run linux? or netbsd?
Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:58 · Score: 0

Your DSL is not capped at the modem, it's capped at the DSLAM.
Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 15:01 · Score: 0

X1: beige box, nothing fancy, stable.
X2: oversized, odd-shaped thing built to "improve" upon the X1 invention.
X3: the awesome linux-based future that now nobody will see.
Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 15:03 · Score: 0

pw - I think phroggy was probably someone in tech support since he's looking for a job in portland area.
Re:Goodbye Telocity by redog · 2002-12-13 20:01 · Score: 1

My X2 is just fine. Its had quite a few ocassions that required a rebooting(a cron, an HTTP auth/command") but other than that it served its pourpose well.
Re:Goodbye Telocity by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 13:54 · Score: 0

I don't think that you were in the first five.

Maybe if you're just counting software engineers on the ADSL version. But remember that Machone predated Telocity, and there were more than five people there.

I blame a lot of the mess on Thomas for thinking too big.

The point you are missing is... by tswinzig · 2002-12-13 11:28 · Score: 2

...they are going out of business. How exactl do you propose they pay you a cancellation fee? If they had any money to pay you, they'd still be in business!

--

"And like that ... he's gone."

Re:The point you are missing is... by cdf12345 · 2002-12-13 14:22 · Score: 2

I believe they are stopping service because they are not making money, not because the have no money. Your saying Hughes Electronics has no money? I'm just asking for fairness, consumers get burned if they quit a service, why the the companies also?

Just because they are switching to another provider probably mean much to the 100,000+ customers that are at the mercy of the new company.

--
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
Re:The point you are missing is... by loudici · 2002-12-14 04:03 · Score: 1

last time i looked they were a unit of GM. sounds like some deep pockets right there.

--
Dev elpizw tipota, dev phoboumai tipota eimai lephteros http://euclidian.org

Re:Hehehe/TOO FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:29 · Score: 0

Good think I wasnt drinking, my sinuses would be full of root beer after seeing that.

Too Funny!

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-12-13 11:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Linux support? Try Starband....(read first) by gabrieltss · 2002-12-13 11:35 · Score: 1

I just got Starband installed. Yeah right! I got it installed on November 30th and I am still waiting to get on the internet.

Can you say "are we there yet?"

Supposedly it is windows only, but I found information on how to get it to work under Linux. Now if Only the satalite modem would work, I could try it.

--
The Truth is a Virus!!!

Slashdot by Bob+Vila's+Hammer · 2002-12-13 11:37 · Score: 1

Looks like Direct TV DSL got slashdotted with extreme prejudice.

--

--"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams

Stream :) by Skuld-Chan · 2002-12-13 11:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm a former sys-admin who is working at Stream right now. Its not very high paying, but sometimes helping people out is pretty rewarding. There is a career path - its comforting to know that all my supervisors, site director and service delivery manager all started out on the phones just like me.

Plus its amazing how much you learn - I know more about the product (desktop publishing/graphics software) I support then probably most anyone on here.

Also I'm learning a lot about how to deal with diffucult people - a must in almost any job. I've literally made people who were screaming at me apologize for being so rude.

After all this I still want out because it is a very hard job for the pay. In the end though if I was in charge of hiring someone on a help desk I would look for call center (tech support) experience. Especially when you consider the success rate of most support techs here. Personally I can take a cold call - not know anything about the customers system, its quirks etc (I support mac, windows and sometimes unix products) and well over 90% solve there sometimes complex problem.

Re:Stream :) by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 15:42 · Score: 2

I'm a former sys-admin who is working at Stream right now.

I heard Stream just laid off 500 people today too; is that true? In any case, the rumor has been going around for awhile that Stream's Beaverton callcenter will be closing any time now.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Re:Stream :) by Skuld-Chan · 2002-12-14 10:22 · Score: 2

No thats really not true - at least I don't think it is - I mean its realtively big call center, but I think I would have noticed 500 people missing one day.

On Beaverton's call center. I dunno - I noticed they were giving a tour to a very prospective client the other day.

Andy's out of a job :). by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:41 · Score: 0

HA HA HA Andy's out of a job. 3 I suppose you can scrape up some of the photos of the nude, prepubescent girls you've saved and sell it online to pay the rent.

Jeesus christ. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:42 · Score: 0

This has two effects.

One: thousands of geek-happy DSLers with static IPs and probably businesses investing their time and money into the craphole we call DirecTV Broadband get shafted and probably won't get broadband for at least a month after the 90 day period.

Two: i now have the opportunity to either try out my local Cable Broadband (which i won't since i hear it sucks) or get a PPPoE DSL connection. though that may sound bad, it benefits my testing of PPPoE client software for a router i'm developing.

Though i have to say it sucks. I won't find another ~$50 ADSL connection with 1.5Mb Down / 256Kb Up. Speakeasy's $60 plan might be worth the money if it can make up for all the shortcomings of Bellsouth. i doubt it can make up for all of them. I don't really qualify for any DSL other than speakeasy, Covad, or BS, and i'm not going with Covad. Sigh.

Just my luck... by Kaypro · 2002-12-13 11:42 · Score: 2

Just yesterday I got through a week and a half of tech support of finally getting my dad's DSL up and running without going down for hours at a time and they hit me with this. I just hope whoever (if) takes over has as good tech support. Seriosuly though they had some great tech support personell, very helpfull.

Ironic...

--

Eddy.WriteLinux.Com

Re:Just my luck... by da3dAlus · 2002-12-14 03:02 · Score: 2

By the way, before you up and cancel your DTV DSL service, wait at least until Tuesday (December 17), when another announcement will be posted on http://www.directvdsl.com which may indicate the provider they will be migrating us to. Hopefully it will be one of the above (or similar.)

Thanks for the advice. After reading some other posts (thank god this story made it to /.), I think I will just take the gateway and use whatever time is left to get set up. I read from someone else that it's better just to keep the service, if for nothing else, a quicker switch to a new ISP--otherwise I'd have to wait until they released my line before I could sign up again. Does this sound correct (as you noted to have had more than 1 broadband provider).

Also, would you think they'll let everyone just keep the gateways instead of mailing them back? I know DTVDSL has in their agreement that you send the equipment back, but given the circumstances, people keep saying otherwise. I guess I'll just have to wait until the 17th to really get the straight answers, but if you have any more advice, I would greatlly appreciate it!

--

Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Re:Just my luck... by MrCode · 2002-12-14 04:55 · Score: 1

In my experience you do indeed have to wait a month for the line to be released. I'm not sure why it takes that long, though the likely reason is the ILECs being slow on purpose (or just general bureaucracy.) I also plan to keep the DTV DSL until they switch me over, if for no other reason than I got in on the $20/month for 3 months deal ;)

Regarding the gateways, I've heard other people also saying they would like to keep them to mess around (since they are actually routers, not just plain old ADSL modems.) But let's be realistic, I doubt DTV DSL will just give away 160,000+ pieces of equipment that probably cost a couple hundred dollars each. But it would be cool...imagine a Beowolf cluster of these! :)

Ahhh, the memories by MeatMan · 2002-12-13 11:43 · Score: 1, Interesting

This is reminiscent of when @home went belly up. Everyone was freaking out and ranting. They transitioned those they could to another provider & the rest got squat because they couldn't get broadband other than by cable. I had cox@home and Cox Cable simply assumed the broadband service themselves. The transition was anything but smooth for the first 3 weeks but once they got all the kinks worked out, my broadband speed actually went up and I really haven't had any problems, other than untimely cable outages for various reasons.
It seems to me that the vast majority of "Broadband" IP's are just contracting with other companies who own the backbone. If you could get DSL from DirectTV where you live, I'm sure someone else can offer DSL at the same location without missing a beat. As for all the "Hah Hah'ers", don't bother considering all the people who will soon be unemployed, because we all know people like you care for no one but yourselves.
Good Luck to those who will be getting their pink slips.

--

"It is essential that justice be done

Re:Ahhh, the memories by jmorris42 · 2002-12-13 19:05 · Score: 2

Sure I can go back to HellSouth DSL. Pay the same price for a dynamic IP over PPPoE, dig out the crappy USB Alcatel Stingray and stick it on the laptop (only dual boot machine I have left) before calling tech support. Sounds yummy.

p.s. The actually wouldn't talk to me until I answered "Which version of Windows" while I was trying to tell them my Alcatel Speedtouch Pro (Which they provide to their business customers so it isn't unknown to them) had dropped the line sync light. Never got a usable answer to "What does my OS have to do with the modem losing line sync?"

--
Democrat delenda est

They took the words right out of my mouth.... by dalrympm · 2002-12-13 11:47 · Score: 1

If you've ever dealt with DirectTV customer service, this line from the DirectTVDSL FAQ sums it all up: "DIRECTV customer service does not have any information." I love it.

Re:Sad, but necessary-Cause & Effect. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 11:49 · Score: 0

And all those users downloading and maxing out their connection for long periods of time didn't have an effect? I wonder if we'll ever have a world were people will take responsability for their own actions? I hope it's soon, because they're sure ruining this one.

Hughes/EchoStar merger collapse killed it. by brickbat · 2002-12-13 11:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm surprised no one has picked up on the fact that DirecTV DSL's demise was largely due to the failed merger between Hughes and EchoStar (owner of the Dish Network). Anytime a large merger fails, the losers have to jettison the dead weight that might have otherwise been supported through the strength of the combined companies. DirecTV's broadband operations are expected to lose more than $100 million this year, so it's not surprising that Hughes pulled the plug. Especially when you consider the service did not share infrastructure with the satellite operations (essentially Hughes bought Telocity a year and a half ago and repackaged it with the DirecTV service).

Re:Hughes/EchoStar merger collapse killed it. by cgleba · 2002-12-13 18:40 · Score: 2

Hmm, the FCC seems to be allowing just about every merger under the sun. . .why might they have not allowed this one?

Perhaps it is becuase the miltary is under a very heavy satellite bandwidth crunch and they would not like having fewer competitors in contract bidding wars?

Anyone care to plot directway's "FAP" bandwidth drop against overseas miltary activity? :)
Re:Hughes/EchoStar merger collapse killed it. by TheSync · 2002-12-14 03:58 · Score: 2

While the satellite providers aren't hurting, they aren't doing very well either. Higher modulation techniques and better coding mean more bps per hertz (I'm working on a 16QAM project right now, but we do have big dishes, >4m). Also a bunch of satellite dotcoms have gone away.

The possibly good news for users is that Ka band birds will be launching in the next few years. They can steer tighter baems for more "cellular-like" coverage from Geosync orbit.

As their commercial stated prophetically ... by JoeGee · 2002-12-13 11:59 · Score: 1

they have reached the end of the internet.

--

Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!

dammit this sucks by Jaeger- · 2002-12-13 12:00 · Score: 1

Dammit their service has been GREAT for me for a good year and a half now. Sure it cost more than a cable modem from my local (Charter Communications) cable tv company but the quality of service has been excellent. Also Charter SUCKS in my area for TV so I can't imagine their cable modem service being any better.

It was nice being able to use the Net if/when the TV went out. Now I will have to go to BellSouth or Charter for the same money, less quality of service, and dynamic IPs unless I pay more money. ARGH.

--
E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E

Re:dammit this sucks by Jaeger- · 2002-12-13 12:02 · Score: 1

I guess this is as good a time as any to get serious about trying to pirate someone's wireless signal nearby...

--
E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E

Verizon DSL in Portland works well by Spy4MS · 2002-12-13 12:01 · Score: 2

I've had it for two years and have had good service, aside from the flaky Fujitsu Speedport modems (yeah, I know they're not technically modems). The tech support guys are friendly and go out of their way to return calls, send people out, and fix problems.

The service is pretty cheap, too. I got in when it was 32.95/month + fees. Now I think it's $39.95 which is still a good deal for 768/384 up/down kbps, dynamic ip. Dynamic IP hasn't been a problem since I use dyndns for a free domain name.

A message to ex employees of DirectvDSL by JVert · 2002-12-13 12:01 · Score: 2, Funny

To abuse department: HA! I told you that you were ruining the company! Shut my connection down for a month because I had a virus for a few days (which I fixed before I was disconnected) See what happens? Put this on your shoulder and walk home!

To everyone else: My condolences, but I warned you that abuse department was trouble...

I've waited almost a year for revenge.
But seriously, anyone else know of anyone this cheap with static IP?

Re:A message to ex employees of DirectvDSL by shepd · 2002-12-13 16:13 · Score: 1

>But seriously, anyone else know of anyone this cheap with static IP?

Yes, but I doubt I'd want to tell anyone who gets their machines infected. :-P

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC

I want my DirectTV! by ALHiker · 2002-12-13 12:05 · Score: 1

I will miss DirectTV. There were no outages and I had a static IP for around $40 a month. A great value.

The Karate Kid by yerricde · 2002-12-13 12:05 · Score: 1

when he's "looking" at pr0n he'll have to switchoff every now and again?

Whacks on, whacks off. Whacks on, whacks off. Whacks on, whacks off. Didn't you watch The Karate Kid?

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Portland area? you're screwed. by geekoid · 2002-12-13 12:09 · Score: 2

I know the HR people for the large IT employers (NIKE, Intel) they numbers show IT unemployment at 30-40%.
A large part of that is not just the economy, its overseas contracting thats taking a lot of Jobs.
I suggest you write our elect officials and get them to impose some sort of tax or tarif on over seas out-sourced labor. Yes, Im serious. It is impossible to compete on a monetary level, and most management just see the numbers now, not the numbers for the people to fix the crap they get from overseas.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:Portland area? you're screwed. by Colonel+Panic · 2002-12-13 13:02 · Score: 2, Informative

I know the HR people for the large IT employers (NIKE, Intel) they numbers show IT unemployment at 30-40%.

I like to do informal employment surveys at various geek gatherings I attend in Portland (PLUG, Perl Mongers, etc), I basically ask, "Who's working?" and over the last year it always turns out that around 50% of the folks I ask are not working.

I suggest you write our elect officials and get them to impose some sort of tax or tarif on over seas out-sourced labor.

It sounds like a nice idea, but how would that work? How could it possibly be enforceable? We should be greatly curtailing the number of H1B's we let in to fill engineering jobs too, but I have a sneaking suspicion that that'll just accellerate the move to design offshore.

Yes, Im serious. It is impossible to compete on a monetary level, and most management just see the numbers now, not the numbers for the people to fix the crap they get from overseas.

Aye, but there's the rub! There are lots of design groups overseas in India, China, Russia that are not producing crap, but good code. Coding well is not something that only Americans can do. The fact is that it's quite easy to outsource software engineering & IT jobs overseas to competant workers that will produce for much less $$$$ - thanks to the internet. I suspect that what we need to do is try to encourage the formation of unions among India's software engineers (and I'm only half joking :) so as to raise their wages. In the meantime I think we need to get used to much lower pay here in the US or else go into a field where it's difficult to have your job exported overseas
(What was that "I'm a Dentist" song from "Little Shop of Horrors"? )

Software Engineering & IT jobs used to be among the higher paid jobs in the US, but going forward that will no longer be the case - they will be average to low paying professions I suspect. You'll have to be a marketeer or lawyer or some such in order to be paid well. It's sad really, the US used to be known for it's engineering prowess but now all we're becoming known for is our ability to market, advertise and file lawsuits - nothing productive.
Re:Portland area? you're screwed. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 14:40 · Score: 0

I work for a company that does phone based tech support. They have tried to use tech's in Inda for phone support like they do for email support and it has not worked.

As a native speaker of english, I take calls from Florida, Texas, New York, California, etc. The accent, dialects, and idoms keep me on my toes.

Even with 8 months of schooling in "conversational english" they can not provide better than average phone support.

So not everything can be exported well.

And amazingly enough, where I work in Oregon has hired 50 or more support techs in the last 2 months and they are still can not field enough techs yet.
Re:Portland area? you're screwed. by geekoid · 2002-12-13 20:48 · Score: 2

Companies need to report where there money is going, so it would be pretty easy to know there using off-shore labor.

I have yet to see off-shore code that is better then amaturish. Perhaps I've just been lucky...

SE are paid fair value for there work, all things considered.

You mention unions, well if this keeps up, expect to see a software union. Americans shoudn't have to fear loosing there jobs when they are reasonably paid, and yes, the average IT/SE workers pay is fair.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:Portland area? you're screwed. by TheSync · 2002-12-14 03:52 · Score: 2

Hey folks, move to DC, the defense industrial complex is hiring!

Fiber modems cost money, you know. by yerricde · 2002-12-13 12:11 · Score: 1

There is a shitload of dark fiber available and to charge the astronomical fees they continue to try to is absolutely criminal.

It's expensive to light up dark fiber because fiber modems are expensive.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

It didn't make sense, anyhow. by AtariDatacenter · 2002-12-13 12:19 · Score: 2

DirecTV DSL. Think about it. A satellite communications provider, who is... uh... borrowing land-line cables from the local telephone company to provide DSL access, the same that everyone else does, straight to your house, with very little distinguishing characteristics. DirecTV didn't seem to have any special advantage in this market. In fact, it really didn't have a whole lot to do with them. (Sure, there was a tangent relationship to their DirectPC or DirecWay service.)

If the Internet boom had continued for much longer, maybe they would have integrated it into a land-line video distribution service or something. But that would have taken an even bigger Internet bubble to happen (and an even bigger bubble to prevent that from failing when the bubble popped).

Re:It didn't make sense, anyhow. by Meorah · 2002-12-13 18:31 · Score: 1

it makes tons of sense if you already are a directv subscriber and get directvDSL marketing crap thrown at you every week. I got it cuz the bill would just be added to my directv bill, and it was $10/month cheaper than getting the service direct from the local baby bell. It was a good month while it lasted.

--
Protector of Capitalist views,
Meorah

Re:More Info - ow! my foot! by JVert · 2002-12-13 12:19 · Score: 1

oh.

I didn't realize i'm an idiot.

But its good to know.

*begin bandage of foot* we got a bleeder here!

Old DSL Modem? by Timinithis · 2002-12-13 12:22 · Score: 1

So, anyone got any suggestions for the Telocity DSL Modem I have left over from when I was on that service before/during their shift to DirecTV DSL?

--
Sig? What's a Sig?

Re:Old DSL Modem? by wolf- · 2002-12-13 14:34 · Score: 2

My understanding is that its proprietary, and wont work with any other providers.

The reverse has not been true however. There were other models of DSL devices that would work with Telocity.

--
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab

gah by iosmart · 2002-12-13 12:37 · Score: 0

i dunno how the heck things like these come and go. must be a lot of "cookin' the books" going on...

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-12-13 12:38 · Score: 2

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Snail Mail Spammers by RLynn · 2002-12-13 12:41 · Score: 1

Based on the mass of mail that I got from them on a weekly basis, their demise doesnt suprise me.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-12-13 12:45 · Score: 2

Comment removed based on user account deletion

quite satisfied (until now) by bbqBrain · 2002-12-13 12:47 · Score: 1

No kiddin', brotha. I've had the service since August. $50/mo, static IP address, and not a single outage! I've seen some negative comments regarding customer service, but I never even had to contact them, so I'd call it perfect customer service.

Sucks. It sounds like you're an employee. Any idea about being bought out by a particular company? Best of luck to you in your impending job hunt. It's tough here in St. Louis, too, but hopefully some work will be opening up with 2003 project budgets. I'd be happy to send your resume along to my consulting firm's recruiter, if you're open to relocating.

--

One of the reasons that I became a lawyer was to avoid ever having to hire one. -SPYvSPY

i used to work for telocity by waspleg · 2002-12-13 12:48 · Score: 2

their shit is a mess

run the other way

screaming

You left out the *share* it with 40 others bit by kfg · 2002-12-13 12:58 · Score: 2

I've got similar service from Road Runner (although it sets me back $50/month), but as we all know the cable pipe is *shared.*

The original poster took that into account.

35*40=1400/month/subnet

Maybe you share with 50 others to get the cheaper price.

KFG

Cyberonic 1500/768 Static IP No Port Blocks by meehawl · 2002-12-13 13:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

Speakeasy is a good service, but expensive, and upload is capped at 128K (Covad) for low-end residential ADSL vs SDSL.

Replace DirectTV DSL with Cyberonic (Worldcom/UUNet reseller)...
1500/768, static IP, no port blocking, $40/$50
http://www.cyberonic.com/int_for_home_dsl.shtml

There are consumer reviews of their service here:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/

I had Speakeasy for two years, excellent, but pricey. With Cyberonic (dumb name!) I get similar pings to my Speakeasy SDSL, and massive uploads.

--

Da Blog

Re:Cyberonic 1500/768 Static IP No Port Blocks by wolf- · 2002-12-13 14:30 · Score: 2

Saw that SpeakEasy offered 2 static ips, unlimited dialup for $89.

Also, in month of December, free xbox or Ps2 with 18 month committment.

Thanks for the other company name, will look to see if they have service here.

--
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab

Re:Sad, but necessary-Cause & Effect. by KingAdrock · 2002-12-13 13:01 · Score: 2

If the users were allowed to max out their connections for long periods of time under their service agreement it doesn't matter. It isn't the responsibility of the customers to keep the business viable, it is the responsibility of the executives and employees of the company.

How likely is speakeasy to stay in business? by nicedream · 2002-12-13 13:03 · Score: 1

So, since we're talking about Speakeasy....does anyone know if they are likely to go under anytime soon?

I ask this as a 2 year DirecTV/Telocity customer (very satisfied) that is in the process of switching to Speakeasy because DirecTV isn't available on my new house's phone line.

Re:How likely is speakeasy to stay in business? by Ryandav · 2002-12-15 01:48 · Score: 2

They are doing very well, actually. Listed last year as a "fastest growing company", the promo's and services they have been offering indicate that they are doing well. Evidence is that after last year, they are still around. I certainly like em, and they're getting a whole lot better than everyone else.

--
Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD

Competition by BryanL · 2002-12-13 13:03 · Score: 1

This is too bad. I have AT&T cable broadband. The other day I got a message from them that I would have to fork-up an extra ten dollars a month to get basic cable. I don't want cable since I have the Dish Network. No matter. I thought screw them, I am going to get DSL. For my dl/ul needs DirectTV was the only option for me. Now it looks like I am out of luck.

This news is bad from a competition standpoint. If this is the future of broadband, it looks like either like the consumer is going to be squeezed for every dollar they can give or else broadband is going to grow at a snails pace. Either way, bad for the consumer.

I did better than Speakeasy by meehawl · 2002-12-13 13:05 · Score: 2

Speakeasy is a good service, but expensive, and upload is capped at 128K (Covad) for low-end residential ADSL vs SDSL.

Replace DirectTV DSL with Cyberonic (Worldcom/UUNet reseller)...
1500/768, static IP, no port blocking, $40/$50
http://www.cyberonic.com/int_for_home_dsl.shtml

There are consumer reviews of their service here:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/

I had Speakeasy for two years, excellent, but pricey. With Cyberonic (dumb name!) I get similar pings to my Speakeasy SDSL, and massive uploads. Teh support aren't as friendly, but I don;t have to stay on hold for 30 mins at a time.

--

Da Blog

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... by Xoro · 2002-12-13 13:11 · Score: 0

In Soviet Russia, DSL company signs 1-year contract with you!

--
Kill, Tux, kill!

Well Hell by hoochiepapa · 2002-12-13 13:12 · Score: 1

I just renewed my domain for another year ( Really liked the static IP) -- and got my spam filters working in postfix.. So now I will be dumped to bellsouth or mindlink with DHCP. Crap.

Bah by wolf- · 2002-12-13 13:13 · Score: 3, Informative

Just FREAKING great.
Damn Slashdot finds out before the freaking customers do.

--
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab

Re:Bah by Anonymous+Freak · 2002-12-13 14:41 · Score: 1

Slashdot found out before some of the EMPLOYEES did...

--
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.

was a good deal by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 13:21 · Score: 0

static ip *and* no long term contract for 39.95. you could not beat it. customer support may take 3 or 4 tries but in the end it worked just fine.

now we are stuck with 1-year-contract-only providers, and don't forget to pay more for static ip

As a DirecTV DSL customer, all I can say is... by sootman · 2002-12-13 13:41 · Score: 2

...fuck. I have been with them since they were just Telocity and have thoroughly enjoyed being with a provider which not only specifically allowed me to run a server but supplied me with a static IP as well. The static IP is negligable, thanks to dyndns.org, but I hope my new provider is as serever-friendly as DTV was. Bummer. I had a bit of trouble with my connection ever since the beginning and it finally went away last month. Crap. Oh well. Such is life.

--
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.

Re:As a DirecTV DSL customer, all I can say is... by wolf- · 2002-12-13 14:27 · Score: 2

I've talked to SpeakEasy, SnappyDSL and DSLi tonight. Going to read up on the reviews of them all.

Yes, I was a Telocity customer. Only had one serious problem, and it ended up being the X2 going bad. One processor refused to sync time with the other one, so lots of errors. After getting to level 3 support and them trying 2 rom updates, I got a new modem in 24 hours.

Their techs may not have been required to support linux, but they were very understaning.

--
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab

Goatse alert! by Robber+Baron · 2002-12-13 13:51 · Score: 4, Informative

Warning! Don't click on his sig!

--

You're using her as bait, Master!

What I want to know... by porkface · 2002-12-13 14:03 · Score: 1

What's the cost of bandwidth at the top of the food chain? Is it mathematically possible (barring all mistakes) to break even selling 768k broadband to end users at some kind of reasonable rate? It feels like the sky is falling.

On a brighter note.... by Ambience · 2002-12-13 14:06 · Score: 1

You can always sign up for/be transferred to SBC Yahoo! so that you can be inundated with advertisements until you go crazy.

telecity was very good, some are terrible (Cox). by sergiori · 2002-12-13 14:07 · Score: 0

I had telecity and they were pretty good the service was reliable, you got an static IP, and routable, 1.5 Mbits/s down, and 128 Kbits/s up, for $40 a month it was a good service, and they provided an 800 toll free number free for dialup for backup.

before I had covad, which was terrible, one time I was down for 3 weeks and covad would not fix the problem which was on their end, they finally theatened to charge if the problem was at my end and I agreed, that's when they fixed the problem and with 3 weeks down, they wanted to bill the entire month.

Now I have ATT in California, and Cablemas which is a division of Cox in Tijuana mexico, border with San Diego.

ATT is very good, routable IP, good customer service, very reliable, very fast 1.5 Mbits down and 256 kbits/s up.

Cablemas is the worst I have seen, the instalation took 5 months, I have been down for weeks, the speed is really slow it was 256 kbips/s, now I was put behind a firewall with a non routable IP it really sucks, I can no longer receive calls with my vonage phone, download sucks at 5 Mbytes the download stops, ssh times out and you lose the connection after 2 minutes, they put a filter on sunday to filter internet, and my bandwidth became 0, after 4 days of massive complaining they remove the filter. you pay rent for the cable modem even if it is yours, you pay extra for not getting their video, it is about 25 times more expensive than ATT, 64kbits is the basic rate at about $38 dollars a months. It really sucks, a modem it is actually faster and more reliable in this case.
I am so disapointed at cablemas and Cox (same company) for the very bad service they provide.
it is so bad that I have put my own web site warning people of cablemas check it out at

http://www.cablemas.org.

They had a promotion and failed to honor it.

I am not very familiar with ISP services in mexico, but if someone tells me of a good alternative, I will switch. unlimited, with routable ip.

What I would really like it to put a wireless link with someone in San Diego (san ysidro, chula vista).

In summary:
Telocity: very good.
ATT: very good.
covad: bad
cablemas (cox): can not get much worse than this.

note, in the case of cablemas some people have routable ips some have private ips, the private one really suck, very slow connectionsw, I had a routable IP and without any warning I was switched, and now every so many minutes I get a new private IP every few minutes via hdcp, and everything stops workings in the meantime.

Dude, sorry to hear that. by Anonymous+Freak · 2002-12-13 14:18 · Score: 1

Sorry not for the customers (unfortunately, DTV's structure made it nigh-impossible for good service to happen,) but for the employees.

I used to work in their Advanced Technical Support department, and still know quite a few people there. (Including Phroggy. Hey, man, email me, I'll see if I can find work for you.) DirecTV Broadband had problems right after they bought Telocity because their technical support call center was outsourced, and they had problems with the outsourced companies. I was in the first batch of techs that were DirecTV employees. (Well, we were still 'contractors', so we didn't get benefits, but we were contractors in a DirecTV-owned building, with DirecTV-employed bosses.) Service got MUCH better when the techs were in-house. Yes, people still complained, but that was more due to the fact that there were long hold times because DirecTV couldn't hire techs fast enough.

And that is why this REALLY sucks. DirecTV was hiring techs right when the tech job market in Portland was on its way down. ALOT of their techs were laid-off from other jobs, and by taking the DirecTV job, were being paid less than half what they had been making less than a year before. (I know of about 10 workers whose salaries combined from the previous year (and previous jobs) was probably more than the combined salaries of all 400 workers in the DirecTV call center.)

The Portland tech job market sucks right now. Intel recently laid off almost 5000 local workers, lots of small startups are failing (or have failed,) and now we've got another couple hundred good techs flooding in.

My solution? I started my own company. If any DTV techs that know me are reading this, drop me a line at ed@rent-a-geek-portland.com and I'll see what I can do for you. My business isn't booming yet, but I've got alot of marketing going out, so hopefully it will get big in the near future.

--
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.

WTF?! by Mr+Teddy+Bear · 2002-12-13 14:32 · Score: 1

How was that a Troll? That was a post of purely factual information related to the grandparent. Moderators? What's goin on here? Is there a personal agenda being pushed by one of you???

Old News!! by Dairyland.Net · 2002-12-13 14:50 · Score: 1

Sheeeesh!!!! I submitted this story looooooong before this post, and it was rejected! What's the matter? Some moron at /. can't tell a story when they read one, but has to wait until at least 100 more submissions are entered before it's /. worthy?! Get your heads out of your asses kids!

covad in NC by g8orade · 2002-12-13 14:54 · Score: 1

Looks like Covad offer 384/1.5 and static ip for 69.95 at least in some parts of North Carolina. I'll be checking them out next.

Sounds like someone is jealous by Ambience · 2002-12-13 14:57 · Score: 1

whine is not a river in Egypt

Get MSN! by avaric3 · 2002-12-13 15:23 · Score: 1

It's been said often that only the Telco's make any money with DSL. With that in mind, and with our collective hatred of MS, wouldn't it be a great idea to really stick it to them and get MSN broadband.

If MS is losing money with its overpriced for dialup $21.99 service, they must be absolutely hemorraging (SP?) it with their $39.99 to $49.99 broadband.

I know what you're all thinking, you need Windows to run MSN software and you don't want to run MS's proprietary connection software on your machine.

This is not a problem. Any true geek probably has enough spare computer parts to build a small PC. A pentium I class machine with about 128 megs or less should suffice. Install that copy of win98 se or win2k on that machine (you have paid the MS tax haven't you.) Install the Modem and software, set up Internet Connection Sharing on your "new" machine. Set it up so that it automatically dials the connection and boom you are done with windows.

Hook up your real box to it via ethernet and enjoy your surfing knowing that with every ISO you download, you're causing MS a little bit of pain, and you won't even have to go out and buy an XBOX :)

One of the few Linux-friendly DSL providers by pacsman · 2002-12-13 15:25 · Score: 1

I, for one, amd sad to see them go. I had them for a year, and once certain initial configureation issues were resolved they were a very good service. Outages happened, but I'm realistic and don't complain about that. I chose them because not only did they provide a static IP on the basic account, but the tech support knew what Linux was. This means I didn't have to call in with a problem and pretend I had Windows in order to get them to talk to me like I did with BellSouth. Ah, well. They're not the first to go, and certainly won't be the last. Salut!

damn by stinky+wizzleteats · 2002-12-13 15:26 · Score: 2

Not to knock slashdot (read: please don't mod me down, I promise I'm not a troll!), but I am disappointed to learn of this here. I would like for them to have informed me of this directly. I mean, jeez, did they fire the guy who keeps track of their mailing lists already?

I've used the service since the Telocity days, and am profoundly sad to see it go. Not many ISPs out there value freedom of information enough to be server-friendly/static IP, and I don't much enjoy seeing less of them in the world.

I guess I'll spend the next few weeks poring over AUPs. :sigh:

damn shame by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 15:39 · Score: 0

As a Directv DSL customer, I guess that means me.

I've been using their service for over a year now. It's been damn, damn good. Very reliable.

There are just too many broadband players in the US market right now. It's too bad it had to be my provider to go.

Directvdsl used to be Telocity. It was one of the few to provide static IP addresses. I guess we're probably going to get some crappy PPP shit flung at us soon. Sucks.

Re:Their Modem/fake routerDoes this mean I stil ha by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 15:46 · Score: 3, Informative

Does this mean I stil have to mail them their modem or I get to keep it permently? I would nto mind keeping it so I can hack around with it. Any ideas? Can it be used as a normal DSL modem?

It's not fake, it really is a router - so no, it won't work with another ISP, unless you could get the ISP to spoof Telocity's servers, which they could only do if they had inside knowledge of exactly what the gateway is looking for when it tries to download configs.

You'll notice you're on a 4-IP subnet. Add one to the last octet of your IP address; that's the gateway's LAN interface. The gateway also has a WAN interface on a different subnet. It's a router.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;

Man, this really sucks! by MrGibbage · 2002-12-13 15:58 · Score: 1

Static IP, 1500 Mbps, they don't care what servers you run, they don't care if you NAT, they don't care if you run Linux. There are ISPs out there who do have restrictions like these. Check the TOS. And a decent price to boot. I guess I'll be looking for a new ISP.

I don't have a signature line.

I was there for the whole ride. by CausticPuppy · 2002-12-13 16:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

3 or so years ago, at my last apartment, I got my first DSL service which was: (drumroll please) PhoenixDSL, over Northpoint.

So within two years I ran the whole gamut:

Phoenix/Northpoint SDSL
Telocity/Northpoint SDSL
Nothing at all for 3 weeks
Telocity/BellSouth ADSL
DirecTV/BellSouth

No my former roommate, who still lives there, will be going to BellSouth as his ISP. I just went ahead and ordered Bellsouth at my new house anyway, maybe I knew this was coming.

--
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know

Re:I was there for the whole ride. by Ian+Peon · 2002-12-13 19:15 · Score: 2

Yeup, ran the exact same gamut, starting 3 years ago, except s/BellSouth/PacBell.

Damn... really don't want to do SBC or AT+T... I like having a static IP and running my small server.

--
Never never never smoke crack before geometry class!
Re:I was there for the whole ride. by FuegoFuerte · 2002-12-13 21:16 · Score: 2

sed: -e expression #1, char 19: Unterminated `s' command
Re:I was there for the whole ride. by ted_nugent · 2002-12-14 06:21 · Score: 1

Same here. I'm going to head over to Speakeasy. Not quite as good a deal, but they give static addresses and their reputation seems strong.

--
Free the West Memphis Three!

Congrats, Leper by Lucas+Membrane · 2002-12-13 16:14 · Score: 2

You just slashdotted kavi. I do this, too. Whenever some mononeuronic bozon refuses to hire me, about twice a month, I let everyone know that said fool is looking for someone who can really make Flash spit wooden nickels to promote sophisticated websites, or something else that a typical loser would jump on. Then the guy gets buried in email that he would probably like if he didn't get so much of it.

Goodbye cruel world... by Jace+of+Fuse! · 2002-12-13 16:15 · Score: 2

I guess I'll be logging off for good. I've used every available provider in my area, either first hand or second hand and I promise you NONE of them have anything near the service of DirectTVDSL/Telocity.

In fact, in this town there were only two classes of provider. All of them that suck (all of them), and Telocity which didn't.

Static IP, no PPPoe bullshit, 256k uplink (384 if you're lucky), fixed price, and they let you do whatever you want.

I've run my web-server off of their service for over a year now, and I can count the number of times my connection has failed on one hand.

I literally would rather go without an internet connection than use the alternatives available to me. And that's sad but it's true.

--

"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.

RE: MY WONDERFUL BROADBAND by Captain_Loser · 2002-12-13 16:33 · Score: 1

MY wonderful, realtivly cheap broadband is going to switch companies?!?!?!?!?? Well I already have my dsl routed through bell-south.. I wonder what will happen to my quality of service until I switch..

--
-=You might be a geek if your computer is worth more than your car=-

Just my luck... by MrCode · 2002-12-13 16:35 · Score: 1

I'm in a similar situation. I ordered DTV DSL a week ago (based on recommendations from friends) and literally just got it installed and running yesterday. I have really been pleased: the ordering process was easy, I got the modem quickly, and installation was a breeze (of course I'm a computer engineer and have had many kinds of broadband, but still, it is nice.)

Boy was I surprised when I browsed to http://www.directvdsl.com tonight and saw this news. This is just annoying. I would rather have no home internet or flounder on dial-up before getting stuck with BellSouth again (PPPoE can go to hell.)

To those of you like myself who would like to find another provider with similar features to DTV DSL, here are a few to look into (I work for none of these):

DSLi
Speakeasy
SnappyDSL

I think most of you would agree that using smaller companies like these instead of the HelLECs is just smarter: the customer service is bound to be better (hey, it can't get much worse), plus you are helping out one of the little guys. Big nasty corporate monopoly monsters are just evil.

By the way, before you up and cancel your DTV DSL service, wait at least until Tuesday (December 17), when another announcement will be posted on http://www.directvdsl.com which may indicate the provider they will be migrating us to. Hopefully it will be one of the above (or similar.)

bullshit. by twitter · 2002-12-13 16:47 · Score: 2

Their web pages sorted the issue out well enough.

A larger issue was the database of "availability", which was maintained and abused by the local bells. This list kept me from using their service and must be one small part of the "regulatory environment", refered to in the give up letter, that prevents profitable operation in the forseable future.

I got one of their modems when they were Telocity and thought the service was better than cable due to their enlightened and friendly user contracts. They gave you a static IP with no restrictions other than don't do anything malicious. No port blocks or any of that, just a simple line deal.

Then I moved a few blocks. BellSouth told me that service was not available in my new house and could not tell me how long it would be before it was available. I asked to be notified of availability and killed my DSL contract. Two week later, before I'd even sent the modem back, BellSouth calls to tell me that service is available. Great, I tell them, I'll get back to you. Phoning DirectTV, I'm informed that I can't just keep my modem and transfer my account to my new address. The service must be formally killed and fomally started. All of that fomality takes more than a month and service is, suprise, not available when it's over. Nor has it been available for more than a year. I checked regularly and have both BellSouth and DirectTV primed to notify me.

BellSouth's contract, if you can find it, sucked. It had server prohibitions, unilateral change clauses and all the other stupid stuff to make it useless for all but browsing. Why would a telco do that? Gee, I wonder why.

The internet is dying as it becomes more difficult for indivituals to run their own sites. It's not that they don't get it, it's that they don't want you to have it.

--

Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

Warning! by FakePlasticDubya · 2002-12-13 16:50 · Score: 3, Funny

New TV Spot from DirectTV DSL:

"Warning! You really have reached the end of the internet. With us at least."

--

"We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it" -- Winston Churchill

DSL USERS, ITS TIME by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 16:50 · Score: 0

Its time for all slashdotters to get a life.

NO MORE DSL!!!!!

I don't know what you are talking about. by twitter · 2002-12-13 16:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

You say that you were charged for service that you did not recieve. That's nothing like what happened to me. Telocity/DirectTV killed my charges immediatly when I told them I was going to discontinue my service, and tollerated me hanging onto my modem for months. They were always polite and considerate. You then say,

F*ck You, DIRECTV... Thank God that AT&T/Comcast will finally be completing their broadband upgrade in my city next month.

You will be sorry. We all know what kind of service you get from the local bell. If it were not for them selling my number to telemarketers, I'd never consider paying them for an unlisted number or any of the other expensive anti-anoyance so many fools feel compeled to purchase. Read their ToS, weep, and know it will get worse as their competitors die off. Ever heard the phrase, "You can't fight the phone company"? You will come to learn what it means. Just try telling the local Bell to fuck off, it might be a federal crime.

--

Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

Re:I don't know what you are talking about. by Necron69 · 2002-12-13 17:14 · Score: 1

I have no illusions about AT&T/Comcast, but at least they will be able to offer me service. I'm out of options otherwise.

Residential SDSL (at least in Denver) is totally dead since Rhythms burned out. I can't find it for less than $150 a month. The morons at Qwest have yet to install an ADSL remote terminal to my neighborhood (I'm at 18k+ wire feet), although my friends living farther away, but hanging off the same CO can get ADSL.

I've been on Qwest's DSL waiting list since the product was announced back in 1997. Likewise, I've been on AT&T's broadband waiting list since buying my house in 1998.

I truly enjoyed the year I had with SDSL, even though I had to survive three different ISPs. By far, the worst one was DIRECTV Broadband. If they can't manage to serve someone who was pounding on their door desperately trying to remain a customer, then they deserve to fail.

- Necron69

I need houseboy. by blair1q · 2002-12-13 16:57 · Score: 2

Do you do windows and route tables?

Galactus Says: by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 17:09 · Score: 0

I lord Galactus ATE DirectTV DSL. I said I would never eat or attack earth but surfer didn't say anything about DirectTV DSL or DSL or even your delicious phone lines. The hunger consumes me! I must go!

Move to Glasgow KY. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 17:33 · Score: 0

You don't need commercial ownership of roads, you don't have "competing" sewer systems and you don't need commercial broadband networks either. When the profit motive gets the hell out of the way, the service can really start. WHY YOU CAN GET THE BEST DEAL ON HIGH-SPEED ACCESS IN GLASGOW, KY.

Could it be..... by sickboy_macosX · 2002-12-13 17:56 · Score: 0

Could it be part of the reason Direct TV's Broadband Unit went ass over teakettle. is because on the television commercials they were basically saying "Download free Music" "View Movies" And the such could this have been a case of the MPAA/RIAA getting involved? -

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--- /* In Soviet Russia, the Mac OS X kernel panics you! */

directvdsl down - political bs by stoneOfScone · 2002-12-13 18:04 · Score: 1

i have seen but one comment discussing the real issue here, which is that gm/hughes decided that michael powell and the fcc could go screw themselves after the echostar merger failed to gain approval.

i guess the millions who have tv service get more consideration than the hundreds of thousands who have dsl, ie they didnt want to have tv subscribers face a loss of competition in the satellite tv market (they incorrectly defined the market for antitrust purposes as directv obviously competes with cable tv providers as well, but att and comcast can merge?), and if dtv wanted to cut off a few internet users if they couldnt find alternate provisioning for them, oh well, michael powell gets to say he stopped something from happening, obtaining political capital for other battles, and rupert murdoch is happy.

i just pray i get a static ip without any down time for my email server as i have put my email address on all the resumes i have sent out in my quest to get into an industry other than IT.

Re:directvdsl down - political bs by The+Wicked+Priest · 2002-12-14 09:30 · Score: 1

I'm a customer of both the TV and DSL services (by pure coincidence -- I signed up with Telocity before DirecTV bought it). I opposed the merger. I had no idea that something like this would come out of that... and frankly, I still don't see the connection. It sounds more like an excuse than a reason, to me.

The FCC (for once) did define the market correctly in this case. And no, ATT and Comcast shouldn't have been allowed to merge, either.

--
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Well planned? by Erno_Rubaiyat · 2002-12-13 18:13 · Score: 1

It is somewhat ironic that though they have not yet bothered to contact me about the impending shutoff they have cheerfully charged me for the month, today.

I am wondering how I am going to get out of being screwed for 2 service providers or if they plan to re-credit my accound for the unused portion of the month.

Bullshit by cgleba · 2002-12-13 18:17 · Score: 3, Informative

> As long as T1's and T3's cost the price they do,
> _someone_ has to bear that. The customer
> complains it shouldnt be them it should be the
> ISP. But why is that exactly?

All this hype that has is circling around about 10% of the users sucking up 80% of the bandwidth and thus killing broadband companies and causing the price to rise is complete and utter bullshit.

I did an economic report on the broadband industry (I would gladly post if if I had more bandwidth) and the problem is *not* that too much bandwith is being consumed, but that *not enough people have signed up for braodband thus negating the economies of scale the broadband companies projected*!!!

The marginal cost of extra bandwith is miniscule compared to the capital cost of the equipment deployed for broadband. ATT, Verizon, etc all own the backbone and have a *lot* of dark fiber they could utilize at any moment if the demand were there (the cost of a T-1 is *only* expensive to businesses because they have to pay *extra for a balanced line specifically for them* -- and their business is a much further away from the hubs then a broadband router). The problem is that *demand is not there* and the users that they do have have to offset the capital costs that they sank.

Americans are not computer educated and have no need for broadband in general. Furthermore, there is no way to generate demand for broadband until broadband is widely used (for instance, to make high-quality video availible over the Internet the companies have to have a lot of users, but there won't be a lot of high-bandwith users until high-quality video is avaiable).

Furthermore, due to the FCC deregulation causing media keiretsus, the broadband companies will not offer any service to boost demand due to conflicts of interest. For instance, Verizon could *easily* offer long-distance toll-free telephone over DSL, but this would cause the substitution effect against their own telephone service with very little income effect becuase there is little demand for broadband.

Face it, this bullshit about 10% of the users costing broadband companies too much is just that -- bullshit. If it were really an issue they could implement token bucket weighted fair queueing and everything would be fixed. It is an attempt to convince their inelastic consumers that they are hurting and need more $$ from them. It is so they can suck up consumer surplus from their inelestic consumers by introducing a-la-carte pricing while avoiding backlash by spreading this myth.

The broadband companies are hurting very much, but it has *nothing* to do with people downloading too much -- it is completely due to the fact that the number of people that have signed up are *nowhere* near their projections thus they are trying to offset their capital costs by sucking $$ out of their faithful customers.

If you need evidence of this bandwidth myth, just look at South Korea -- they have 20Mbit connections to their homes chepaer then we do and they don't have bandwidth issues. What they did as opposed to us is that the government boosted demand before broadband rollout by offering computer education virtually free to the entire country -- thus the demand was high enough to offset capital costs at the introduction and because everyone had broadband they could create apps for broadband causing more demand for broadband (and the self-feeding cycle continues).

We never met that critical demand mass here.

In summary, don't listen to the bandwidth crap. It is marketing hype to calm the masses before they start introducing by-the-megabyte pricing to suck up consumer surplus (the people who use the most bandwith are the least likely to completely drop broadband, afterall). All of this is worse then the stupid 'viral' GPL marketing crap that MS put out and now everyone seems to quote.

If I upset you, mod me to hell. If you want to discuss make a good argument.

Re:Bullshit by dissy · 2002-12-14 08:26 · Score: 2

But i see the argument a little different. The main point you argue is true.

The fact however is, there IS a demand.
The problem is the demand isnt for what is being offered.
The demand is for fast and cheap.
The offers are slow and cheap, or fast and expensive.

I run an ISP, so have plenty of experence in this area.

Everyone that talks about dark fiber already being in place... There are a few things you dont understand about that.

a) the fiber runs are between their POPs and locations only.

b) there is no easy way to get that fiber to the end user

c) Even if that fiber ran to your home, the cost of the hardware is still a couple times that of the cost of a DSL/cable bridge.

So really fiber itself is useless in regards to getting broadband to the customer.

But lets assume you can even wire up all the homes onto your own network.
To be an ISP, you need that network bridged to the internet. Even ISPs have ISPs of sorts. Generally not at a tier level at this point, but the major backbones all link together, and this requires lines to connect them.
Again, the dark fiber doesnt run between two different companys anymore than it does between one company and the end customers home. Still of no use there.

What does the ISP connect to the net with?
If one chose wireless for the ISPs connection, well ill be the first to say the wont be in business for more than a month.

DSL/cable? That is almost a joke.
It would be comparible to me getting a single dialup account somewhere, and providing 24 dialup lines that connect to the net over that one dialup to my ISP.
Technically yes that will work.
In reality no customer would ever stand for that type of service. The same goes for any other provider.

As an ISP you *need* a connection to your peer networks that is garenteed not to fail, and is fast enough to meet your needs.

What service other than the phone company currently provides that? none.
So your back to T1's and T3's and the like.

As for you calling bullshit about 10% of the customers sucking up 90% of the bandwidth because if it was true they would do something about it...

Why do you think slashdot runs so many storys bitching about cable company caps, and people uncapping their modems?

Its because they ARE trying to limit what can be used, and even if they arnt doing it in the best way, or even the most obviously correct way, the fact of the matter is someone at somepoint said 'We need to limit our customers, so find a way to do that' and it was done.
Just because it was done poorly has no bearing on their intent, which was to limit customers speeds.
And again, people post to slashdot bitching about just these types of controls.

But the main point is, we pay for multiple T1's and that is a large cost of our business. We do not pay for bandwidth. The T1's we have we can blast at 100% 24/7 and it would be fine because that is the line we are paying for.
The fact is a T1 or T3 is only so much (limited) bandwidth that needs to be shared correctly.

Its not a matter of 10% of the users using all of that bandwidth, its a matter of 100% of that bandwidth isnt enough to support all of those customers in the first place, no matter how it is distributed.

To follow, that is one of the reasons the broadband companys have so few customers. They dont know the best way to limit services, but they are ALL doing the same thing.

"AOL/TW roadrunner caps me at 3 mbit, im boycotting!" and the like are common statements seen on slashdot.

Well no shit. If they dont have the customers to pay for more bandwidth then their only option is to limit the bandwidth available to the few customers they do have.
But doing so causes them to lose more customers, which in turn causes the limits to shrink even more so.

Its a spiral that ends with bankruptsy.

Only part of the blame is to lay on the broadband companys for not managing bandwidth and costs correctly.
But part of the blame lays on the would-be customers that expect too much, and failing delivery cancel services.

The problem with creating a network capable of handling the bandwidth a customer would need, and charging them accordnigly, is planning cost of scaling. Its not easy. Plan to big and you pay way too much for unused resources. Plan too small and customer complain you cant meet demand.
Either way your really screwed.

Also keep in mind the above problems are on the ISP to net side. This isnt at all to mention the ISP to customer end which has a whole ton of different problems with it too, the main of which is the monopoly on the phone network, and the fact its actually illegal to run your own wires/fiber/whatever in almost all cases.

My first post only addressed the later issue really, but I hope this one clears up the former issue as well.
Re:Bullshit by cgleba · 2002-12-14 14:57 · Score: 2

You are 100% correct and I should have clairified when I had made that statment. For independent ISPs it is a completely different ball game because you are paying full business prices for bandwidth (T-1s).

What I had done my report on and what I was commenting on was broadband providers who are also NAPs or own backbone (ATT, Verizon, etc). In that case extra bandwidth costs them almost nothing and peering between backbone network is often a wash.

As for smaller independant ISPs as you mentioned above they tend to get screwed on both ends -- by the NAPs and backbone providers and by the customers who expect they compete with the bigger broadband providers.

Thank you for your informed comment.

Telocity had a nice deal by edinho · 2002-12-13 18:22 · Score: 1

I went with Telocity (before they got bought up by DirecTV). The deal was really good. Free modem use. DHCP set up (with explicit support for non-MS and non-Apple OSes), static IP, no restriction about hosting your own server, 1.5Mbps down, $39.95/mo.

After DirecTV, the main change was bumping up the monthly to $49.95, otherwise it was the same.

There goes another decent CLEC, and that's unfortunate.

After I moved to a region where DirecTV was not available, I shopped for broadband providers. It was sad how Verizon is providing the competition access to their local loop:

You have the choice of complete Verizon DSL service for $45/mo, or you can go with a third party, which then you will still have to pay Verizon for their local loop of ~$40, in addition to the ~$25 third party ISP internet service. For the same speed. It is clear that Verizon is screwing the third party ISP because they can get away with it.

Cheers,
e.

Merkac Dot - Google Links, Slashdot Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 18:35 · Score: 0

Merkac Dot - The Slashdot Summariser
In the footsteps of alterslash comes another slashdot summariser - Hoping to ease your slashdot browsing.
This is the story with all links pointing to the google cached versions. See Merkac Dot for the full summary

DIRECTV Broadband Shuts Down News [G] | Posted by michael on Friday December 13, @05:29PM
from the fatality dept.
Phroggy [G] writes "Effective today (Friday the 13th), DIRECTV Broadband [G] is officially out of business. The company will remain partially operational for the next 60 to 90 days, and we will work to transition our roughly 160,000 customers to another provider. Details are still sketchy. So, anybody gonna be hiring in the Portland area in a couple months?" There's a press release [G] about the shutdown.

Yes, I realize this... by TheGreenGoogler · 2002-12-13 19:03 · Score: 2

But so many posts above were looking for other alternatives, as thier ISP is shutting down... Hence, the warning to avoid Directway as an *alternate* ISP, as they are NOT a good choice in my opinion, and from my experience...

Re:Yes, I realize this... by Phroggy · 2002-12-13 20:44 · Score: 2

But so many posts above were looking for other alternatives, as thier ISP is shutting down... Hence, the warning to avoid Directway as an *alternate* ISP, as they are NOT a good choice in my opinion, and from my experience...

Fair enough - and from what I've heard, I agree, unless you have no other broadband option, and maybe even then, stay away from any satelite ISP.

--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;

DirectTV DSL. by methangel · 2002-12-13 20:04 · Score: 1

Is it just me or does that concept seem ... WEIRD?

DirectTV(satellite) DSL (phone line/phone co.)

Miss Cleo could have seen this bankruptcy a year ago.

Damn. It was the best broadband provider around. by toybuilder · 2002-12-13 20:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

For my situation, Telocty (aka DirecTVDSL) was the best deal from technical and economic standpoints. Damn. They offered rock-solid static IP service that was down for only 2 hours out of the last two years. Damn. Their autoconfiguring routers were a joy to use and get up and running. Damn. I really don't want to go to SBC/PacificBell(SpecificHell) for my connectivity. Oh gawd no. Damn.

Re:Lightning bolt! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-13 20:49 · Score: 0

Oh my god... where to begin? I have no concept on how to start!

Perhaps the part where the second lightningbolt hits chinky-dinky Raiden in the face?

Perhaps the fact someone cared enough to film this, transfer it digitally, and place it on the web for all to see?

The clapping cow at the end?

My god, this is fantastic. Santa Claus has delivered this year.

Thanks for the great service! by cameronk · 2002-12-13 21:40 · Score: 1

I've been online since the late 1980s and DirecTV DSL is my first ISP to provide fat low latency pipes and excellent customer service at a great price. What a shame!

--
"...What is good for General Motors is good for America." -Charles Wilson, Secretary of Defense and fmr President of GM

Well damn. by NeuroManson · 2002-12-13 23:55 · Score: 2

DirecPC was my only viable alternative to AT&T's now total monopoly, thanks to DSL's crappy restrictions. I was hoping sometime in the next month or two to be able to get set up with an account, latency issues be damnned, since it would no longer require me to move house just to be closer to a telco office, and could be relocated quite easily, as opposed to setting up fresh service everywhere I go.

--
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!

Re:Well damn. by The+Wicked+Priest · 2002-12-14 09:32 · Score: 1

DirecPC, the satellite Internet service, remains intact. This only affects the DSL service.

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Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

DTVDSL subscriber? Speakeasy has your back! by DMaster0 · 2002-12-14 00:37 · Score: 1

I'm a directv dsl subscriber, haven't even recieved a bill for it yet (odd) but I'm out the door.

Now that my year contract is seemingly bunk I figured I'd check out a recommendation or two from some of the other posts, and found speakeasy.net and check it out:

Dear DirectTV Subscriber,
Sorry to hear your current provider will no longer be offering DSL service. Not to worry -- there's hope! We know you'll be very happy when you switch to Speakeasy Broadband. Call one of our top-notch sales representatives today at 1-800-556-5829 or simply fill out the form below. .. the thing goes on to say that they'll only have a 2 HOUR downtime between swapping ISP's, static IP's and a no fee installation.

This sounds a touch too good to be true, anyone have any recommendations or know if what they're offering is good as its word? I've read lots of nice things about speakeasy, and i'm willing to pay 10 bucks more a month for their stuff I think.

let me be direct. by twitter · 2002-12-14 01:40 · Score: 2

you say:

I truly enjoyed the year I had with SDSL, even though I had to survive three different ISPs. By far, the worst one was DIRECTV Broadband. If they can't manage to serve someone who was pounding on their door desperately trying to remain a customer, then they deserve to fail.

Have you considered the possibility that the poor service was the fault of those who will now take you r money and give you even worse service? The local bells conspired to kill all DSL providers, any and all service problems in my case were attributable to BellSouth.

--

Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

Doesn't surprise me at all by MattTC · 2002-12-14 03:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

Service.

I have a little horror story of my own about these guys. About 7 months ago, my internet stopped working. I called up DirecTV and ask them why...they say because my credit card had been declined. I say oh right, I forgot to tell you I switched cards...here, have my new card number.

Here is where it got ludicrous

"I'm sorry sir, I can't reactivate your account. You'll have to go through the 4-week provisioning process again."

"What! Why? I already have the equipment."

"Because your account has been cancelled."

"Why?"

"Because its been three months since your card worked."

"So why didn't you notify me, or turn off the service before cancelling my account entirely?"

"I don't know sir."

"So you won't turn my account back on?"

"No."

"Then why should I pay you?"

"Uh..."

I went round and round with them for an hour, with exactly no results. I'm now using Earthlink DSL...and I kind of like PPPoE, even if I don't get a static IP anymore.

--
--"You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think."

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2002-12-14 04:34 · Score: 2

Comment removed based on user account deletion

From the FAQ: by Hershmire · 2002-12-14 05:18 · Score: 1

Can I contact DIRECTV customer service for help?

No. DIRECTV customer service does not have any information. ...

Well, hell, I could have told you that. Damned DIRECTV customer service. 90 minutes only to tell me to "wait 24 hours".

--
if(!toilet_paper) roll.replace(new roll); //Stupid roommates.

Re:From the FAQ: by unitron · 2002-12-14 20:19 · Score: 2

DIRECTV is the television channels beamed down from a satellite business. They don't know nothin' 'bout them DSL connections, Miz Scarlett. This is the equivalent of someone in 1960 calling Delco to ask about a Frigidaire product just because GM owned both at the time.

--
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

Re:Linux support? -Yes by fpn · 2002-12-14 07:52 · Score: 1

Yes, they did have support for any OS. All you needed was DHCP and Ethernet...

Re:Linux support? -Yes by 3waygeek · 2002-12-14 10:30 · Score: 2

Technically, you don't even need DHCP. I've been with Telocity/DirecTV for almost 3 years, and have never used DHCP.

Lies! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-14 22:37 · Score: 0

Roughly half of DIRECTV Broadband's 400 employees were notified of layoff today, with a minimum of 60 days notice during which time they will continue to be paid, followed by receipt of a severance package. The remaining employees will work with customers during the approximate 90-day transition process and to wind down business operations.

LIARS!!!
We ALL got laid off and searched like criminals on the way out. Other than the corpers & HQ we were all temps at. Severance.....BS. It wasnt a bad place to work other than the I-LECs constant refusal to do thier jobs. Ah well! we'll see you in hell one day Ned.

Love
Pissed in Portland

libertarian by dirtmerchant · 2002-12-15 02:40 · Score: 1

I do believe that the best definition of Libertarian I've ever heard is: Libertarian - an anarchist that wants police protection from they're slaves.

That's what craigslist.org is for! by orrd · 2002-12-15 14:18 · Score: 1

The Origonian?? Tech people don't read those ads. A paper newspaper is a pain and thier website is crap. Portland techs get their jobs from http://portland.craigslist.org these days.

Unix port by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-16 05:44 · Score: 0

So has anyone started the NetBSD or Linux port to the Telocity ADSL box yet?

Hell Atlantic by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-16 05:57 · Score: 0

If you could get DSL from DirectTV where you live, I'm sure someone else can offer DSL...

Sure I can switch to Verizon (Hell Atlantic) DSL, and save money, but I lose the static IP, and permission to run servers.

Re:DTVDSL subscriber? Speakeasy has your back! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-16 06:06 · Score: 0

I think two hour down time is if you are using Covad for your final mile(s).

Those of use using the iLEC line . . ..

jjk by enigmatichmachine · 2002-12-17 09:22 · Score: 1

you have soem truely roidljdlkjlu utchekc goin on , you chekc yo see i t dsis cn long durn unrubd

--
-and occasionaly a giant moose.

They decided to tell us by stinky+wizzleteats · 2002-12-17 19:25 · Score: 2

Directv has finally decided to tell its subscribers. I just now got the e-mail.

Last Post! by alpg · 2002-12-27 10:12 · Score: 1

Or you or I must yield up his life to Ahrimanes. I would rather it were you.
I should have no hesitation in sacrificing my own life to spare yours, but
we take stock next week, and it would not be fair on the company.
-- J. Wellington Wells

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

444 comments