Surely the $/Watt includes all the things you have just thrown in so when calculating your examples:
1) The cost of the land would have to be taken in to account
2) The cost of maintenance would be taken in to account
3) The cost of legal fees and vet bills for treating spontaniously combusted neigbours pets would be taken in to account.
The parent's point still holds, the important factor is the total cost of a PV system (installation, land space, maintenance and enclosure costs included) divided by the power it produces.
For those of you wondering what the RRP in the UK is, for a black base unit PSP it's £149.99 (including 17.5% sales tax)
In dollar terms that's $296.40 at the moment.
Lucky us!
Genesis: Penultimate would have: Genesis, Master System adapter, Sega CD, 32X.
Possibly a bad example as Sega's rapid upgrades to Sega CD, 32X then ditching them in favour of the Saturn and then ditching that in favour of the Dreamcast was widely attributed as the cause of their death as a hardware vendor.
Now I don't think the 360 upgrade is the same (realistically other than Vanguard on the PC how many games need a 20Gb install?) but Microsoft do seem to be trying hard to destroy their image as better value than the PS3 right now.
I can also say for certain that it is hurting their sales, If I could plug in my nice cheap USB hard drive into a core version I would have bought one by now and done just that. As it is the need to buy the console plus hard drive (which is more expensive and has less capacity than the ones I already have) moves the system beyond the cost I'm willing to pay for it.
So Brian Hastings, Chief Creative Officer of Insomniac games, whose only current release is for the PS3 is insulting the competition?
It must all be true because he would have no reason to like, make all that stuff up.
It's not that hard to fill that much space.
Say I have 200 CDs and I want them on a PS3 (it is a "digital hub" after all) and I want them compressed without loss. There goes a big chunk right away.
Perhaps I download a few films, or more likely tv episodes if the likes of Battlestar Galactica get iTunes speed releases, 25 episodes all in HD would take a big chunk too.
As this is/. I need a chunk for all my Linux applications.
Throw in a few games (the parent makes the mistake of assuming that all games will have a DVD release in the future) and there goes 120Gb easily.
And personally right now, yes one of the reasons I own neither an XBox 360 or a PS3 is I wuld want it as a PVR/Music centre type thing and neither could hold the number of files I have.
It sounds like you're looking for someting like Planetside (http://planetside.station.sony.com/).
This for those who don't know is Sony's MMO FPS type game. While it has levels all players are equal in terms of health etc. Use of weapons requires a certification, what levelling does is increase the number of certification points. The result is that new players can jump right in, choose a couple of certifications and play that part as well as a more experienced player. What the experienced player gains is variety, for example you might beat him in a tank but he has the skill points to jump into a plane after that.
You forget there are five games in Wii Sports. I agree that the tennis game is relatively light exercise.
Boxing on the other hand is a completely different matter, with it's remote and nunchuk action if you want a workout that's the one to choose.
And of course there are other games, Rayman Raving Rabbids has plenty of games that require frantic high speed shaking of one controller or the other (or both in some cases).
You're describing the original version of the PS2 as useful for small/light travel?
I could tape my Wii and DVD player together and they would take up far less space and weight...
No worse a conclusion than the parent post's. I would have thought that a GPU is by far the best part of a PC to make a fair comparison against the PS3 with.
The F@H web site certainly seems to agree http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html it links between their information on the GPU and PS3 versions stating it's using the same technology behing both clients. The client is admittedly exclusive to ATI cards (X1600, X1800, and X1900 class GPU's) but I would assume that Nvidia's offerings would offer similar performance.
Looking at the PS3 listings on ebay.co.uk there were quite a few attempted scalpers over here.
The good news is that most of them aren't making sales. Those PS3s on auctions with no reserve are going for around retail prices.
It's not really 20x the performance of a PC. If you look at the per processor performance when using a GPU to use the work the PS3 doesn't look so good.
The conclusion I would make is that any PC that the average gaming PC has a GPU with double the performance of the PS3.
In the UK we do pay the equivalent of $70, $80, $100 for games.
That does include 17.5% sales tax but I've never heard the remainder of the increase justified. I suspect as you say it purely is because people here are willing to pay that price.
I doubt they would lose much by freeing up the graphics chip for us Linux hackers. If anything, they will gain some much needed public image back by truly supporting Linux instead of just profiting from it.
The day that Linux on the PS3 can run a decent range of emulators they loose the retro game sales I'm sure they'll push through Home. (of course a full free NES/SNES/N64 emulator might hurt Nintendo as much as it hurts Sony).
There's a bunch of games people might try instead of the PS3 ones Sony makes money on.
And of course if it's completely opened up, what's to stop developers making their games for PS3 Linux to avoid the Sony licensing fees?
Next week will be a key week for the PS3 with the European launch.
It's not looking good for Sony; while the Wii is still sold out most highstreet shops are still advertising that if you pre-order you will get your PS3 on launch day.
Of course it could be there are millions of pre-orders and all that US/Japanese stock has been diverted over here.
Interestingly in terms of desireability amongst the class of 9 year olds I teach the PS3 outranks the Wii by about 2:1. If this is representative then if Sony could just get the price right they would probably catch up pretty fast.
The PS2 never really appealed to me (I'm more of a PC gamer) but at the price it is now and with the vast range of cheap games to be had on e-bay I could get a whole lot of gaming for a very small price right now.
Perhaps the true winners of the current console wars are us people picking up all the PS2, GC and Xbox games we never quite got around to playing that the early adopters are selling off.
a) I don't care about having an HD-DVD or Blu ray drive so the extra should be deducted.
b) I don't need a wireless adaptor so that cost can go too.
c) Don't have to pay for live if I don't want to (although I'll pay for the better than PS3 service of live if only to avoid the adverts you will be bombarded with under Home.
d) No one is buying the base PS3 so you should really compare the top end boxes price.
e) In a short while and a new revision 360 will be out with a corresponding drop in the other packages prices.
f) I live in Europe where the PS3 released to us will have backwards compatibility as poor as the 360's.
g) Given the PS3 has been on release for three months now it's a bit early to start making reliability comparisons to a console that has been around for over a year.
Is that enough reasons yet?
(of course run the same criteria against the Wii and things suddenly look even worse, half the price, near silent running and 100% backwards compatability for a start).
Here in Canterbury, HMV (major record/DVD/game retailer), Currys (biggest high street electrical retailer) and Blockbuster (biggest game/video rental store) still has stock for launch day, they have reached the point where they are putting hand written signs outside their doors advertising the fact. This is with ten days to go until launch.
E-bay PS3 prices are about at retail levels, a bit higer for pre ordered UK versions, a bit lower for imported US/Jap versions.
The Wii is still largely out of stock although to be fair the situation is getting better. E-bay prices are typically only 10% above RRP and new stock on online will typically take an hour plus to sell out rather than the five minutes or less you'd face two months ago.
But then if you want to be picky, Wolfenstein was just an updated version of Catacomb 3D which was in turn and updated version of Hovertank 3D both also released by ID.
One of the greatest achievements an editor can make is to be accused of being biased by all sides of an argument.
From what I read on/. Zonk is an xbox, wii and ps3 fanboy and so must be well placed to provide a balanced view...
(and as a Wii owner who would just love to see the ps3 do so badly all those nice looking exclusives come over to Nintendo, I have to admit this is the first thing I've seen from Sony regarding the PS3 which gives me the impression the it might still be a success)
It only becomes huge if people buy the hardware.
If you told me that there were more people using the Wii Vote channel than Sony have sold PS3s I wouldn't be at all surprised.
Internet radio is a very small part of the market and I suspect the majority of listeners are using the online versions of broadcast stations (the BBC gets good listening figures outside of the UK thanks to its' streaming).
If the record companies double their profit on 90% of their sales they're not going to loose any sleep over the other 10% that have to close down.
With such a low output per unit, is it even worthwhile?
To quote the original BBC article...
"There's never been a new energy technology that's been economic out of the box.
"What gives us tremendous hope with this technology is that our opening costs are substantially below where wind power started 20, 25 years ago."
Wind power has reduced its cost by 80% since, as the technology has been deployed and optimised, he says.
To sum up - If the technology improves to the same extent wind power has over the years then yes it's worth it.
Slashdot Mirror
Surely the $/Watt includes all the things you have just thrown in so when calculating your examples: 1) The cost of the land would have to be taken in to account 2) The cost of maintenance would be taken in to account 3) The cost of legal fees and vet bills for treating spontaniously combusted neigbours pets would be taken in to account. The parent's point still holds, the important factor is the total cost of a PV system (installation, land space, maintenance and enclosure costs included) divided by the power it produces.
For those of you wondering what the RRP in the UK is, for a black base unit PSP it's £149.99 (including 17.5% sales tax)
In dollar terms that's $296.40 at the moment.
Lucky us!
Now I don't think the 360 upgrade is the same (realistically other than Vanguard on the PC how many games need a 20Gb install?) but Microsoft do seem to be trying hard to destroy their image as better value than the PS3 right now.
I can also say for certain that it is hurting their sales, If I could plug in my nice cheap USB hard drive into a core version I would have bought one by now and done just that. As it is the need to buy the console plus hard drive (which is more expensive and has less capacity than the ones I already have) moves the system beyond the cost I'm willing to pay for it.
So Brian Hastings, Chief Creative Officer of Insomniac games, whose only current release is for the PS3 is insulting the competition?
It must all be true because he would have no reason to like, make all that stuff up.
It's not that hard to fill that much space. /. I need a chunk for all my Linux applications.
Say I have 200 CDs and I want them on a PS3 (it is a "digital hub" after all) and I want them compressed without loss. There goes a big chunk right away.
Perhaps I download a few films, or more likely tv episodes if the likes of Battlestar Galactica get iTunes speed releases, 25 episodes all in HD would take a big chunk too.
As this is
Throw in a few games (the parent makes the mistake of assuming that all games will have a DVD release in the future) and there goes 120Gb easily.
And personally right now, yes one of the reasons I own neither an XBox 360 or a PS3 is I wuld want it as a PVR/Music centre type thing and neither could hold the number of files I have.
It sounds like you're looking for someting like Planetside (http://planetside.station.sony.com/).
This for those who don't know is Sony's MMO FPS type game. While it has levels all players are equal in terms of health etc. Use of weapons requires a certification, what levelling does is increase the number of certification points. The result is that new players can jump right in, choose a couple of certifications and play that part as well as a more experienced player. What the experienced player gains is variety, for example you might beat him in a tank but he has the skill points to jump into a plane after that.
Boxing on the other hand is a completely different matter, with it's remote and nunchuk action if you want a workout that's the one to choose.
And of course there are other games, Rayman Raving Rabbids has plenty of games that require frantic high speed shaking of one controller or the other (or both in some cases).
You're describing the original version of the PS2 as useful for small/light travel?
I could tape my Wii and DVD player together and they would take up far less space and weight...
No worse a conclusion than the parent post's. I would have thought that a GPU is by far the best part of a PC to make a fair comparison against the PS3 with.
The F@H web site certainly seems to agree http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html it links between their information on the GPU and PS3 versions stating it's using the same technology behing both clients. The client is admittedly exclusive to ATI cards (X1600, X1800, and X1900 class GPU's) but I would assume that Nvidia's offerings would offer similar performance.
Looking at the PS3 listings on ebay.co.uk there were quite a few attempted scalpers over here.
The good news is that most of them aren't making sales. Those PS3s on auctions with no reserve are going for around retail prices.
It's not really 20x the performance of a PC. If you look at the per processor performance when using a GPU to use the work the PS3 doesn't look so good.
The conclusion I would make is that any PC that the average gaming PC has a GPU with double the performance of the PS3.
Finally we find out why the PS3 costs so much more in the UK.
It has an HDTV bundled with it....
In the UK we do pay the equivalent of $70, $80, $100 for games. That does include 17.5% sales tax but I've never heard the remainder of the increase justified. I suspect as you say it purely is because people here are willing to pay that price.
There's a bunch of games people might try instead of the PS3 ones Sony makes money on.
And of course if it's completely opened up, what's to stop developers making their games for PS3 Linux to avoid the Sony licensing fees?
It's not looking good for Sony; while the Wii is still sold out most highstreet shops are still advertising that if you pre-order you will get your PS3 on launch day.
Of course it could be there are millions of pre-orders and all that US/Japanese stock has been diverted over here.
Interestingly in terms of desireability amongst the class of 9 year olds I teach the PS3 outranks the Wii by about 2:1. If this is representative then if Sony could just get the price right they would probably catch up pretty fast.
The PS2 never really appealed to me (I'm more of a PC gamer) but at the price it is now and with the vast range of cheap games to be had on e-bay I could get a whole lot of gaming for a very small price right now.
Perhaps the true winners of the current console wars are us people picking up all the PS2, GC and Xbox games we never quite got around to playing that the early adopters are selling off.
a) I don't care about having an HD-DVD or Blu ray drive so the extra should be deducted.
b) I don't need a wireless adaptor so that cost can go too.
c) Don't have to pay for live if I don't want to (although I'll pay for the better than PS3 service of live if only to avoid the adverts you will be bombarded with under Home.
d) No one is buying the base PS3 so you should really compare the top end boxes price.
e) In a short while and a new revision 360 will be out with a corresponding drop in the other packages prices.
f) I live in Europe where the PS3 released to us will have backwards compatibility as poor as the 360's.
g) Given the PS3 has been on release for three months now it's a bit early to start making reliability comparisons to a console that has been around for over a year.
Is that enough reasons yet?
(of course run the same criteria against the Wii and things suddenly look even worse, half the price, near silent running and 100% backwards compatability for a start).
Here in Canterbury, HMV (major record/DVD/game retailer), Currys (biggest high street electrical retailer) and Blockbuster (biggest game/video rental store) still has stock for launch day, they have reached the point where they are putting hand written signs outside their doors advertising the fact. This is with ten days to go until launch.
E-bay PS3 prices are about at retail levels, a bit higer for pre ordered UK versions, a bit lower for imported US/Jap versions.
The Wii is still largely out of stock although to be fair the situation is getting better. E-bay prices are typically only 10% above RRP and new stock on online will typically take an hour plus to sell out rather than the five minutes or less you'd face two months ago.
But then if you want to be picky, Wolfenstein was just an updated version of Catacomb 3D which was in turn and updated version of Hovertank 3D both also released by ID.
From what I read on /. Zonk is an xbox, wii and ps3 fanboy and so must be well placed to provide a balanced view...
(and as a Wii owner who would just love to see the ps3 do so badly all those nice looking exclusives come over to Nintendo, I have to admit this is the first thing I've seen from Sony regarding the PS3 which gives me the impression the it might still be a success)
It only becomes huge if people buy the hardware. If you told me that there were more people using the Wii Vote channel than Sony have sold PS3s I wouldn't be at all surprised.
If the record companies double their profit on 90% of their sales they're not going to loose any sleep over the other 10% that have to close down.
According to this article http://uk.movies.ign.com/articles/767/767783p1.htm l Daniel Dae Kim ("Jin Kwon" on Lost and also had minor parts in both Enterprise and Voyager) is in early talks to play Sulu.