You've described existing infrastructure, but the important thing for the business is applications. That's the thing they need, every day. I worked in an infrastructure group in a UK investment bank, the only time they notice what you do, is when it snarls up or fails.
For example, there was a recent thread discussing whether Access has an open-source equivalent, IMO it doesn't really. So, if they use a lot of Access that will constrain upgrade path UNLESS they're prepared to take some risks and spend to take it out of the equation. But, mainly, the list of what's delivered to the business via the servers and on the desktop is the thing. No-one cares about infrastructure [except us, boo-hoo] as long as the price is right [including manpower] and it works.
It sounds, to me, like this is Windows desktops and Linux servers [and therefore Samba, LAMP etc. for example] this is not a bad way to live and many companies do so. That would mean that the client upgrades and server upgrades would be reasonably orthogonal, but I don't know all the details, either. To be honest, I'd be inclined to ask this on Server Fault, but unless there were more details, it's likely to be closed as being 'open ended'. Good luck!
It's really scary to see people asking this, apparently seriously, we've drifted so far from simplicity and standards back into a very specific world with lots more potential lock-in. This is the case for 'apps' too, they provide direct connection between the company and consumer, apart from snarfing up any data that they possibly can. Of course, I'm old, I do do apps and a lot of javascript, but I'm a big fan of open standards and KISS.
I don't have a iPhone and hardly ever change my phone anyway. This is pure consumer fetish behaviour. However, these accelerated product cycles put a lot of toxic stuff into landfill, waste a lot of energy and don't provide any extra utility. Listen carefully for the sound of 'maximising shareholder value' by supplying a great deal of negative ecological externality.
Yes agree. I do a fair amount of work with small non-profits in the UK and this is the main thing that they use. Nearest thing for one table [forgetting Ruby on Rails] is http://www.phpmyedit.org/ with https://www.apachefriends.org/... for example, but it doesn't deal with anything more complex.
My feeling is that Access applications should be re-coded as web, give them more reach and a saner architecture, but non-specialists can use [and make a mess with] Access. Maybe we need a migration toolchain, convert to MariaDb and generate web forms? That would still leave some manual work though.
Agree. I volunteer 'teach' https://www.codeclub.org.uk/ in the UK. The main article is true, not the teacher's fault, the government moved the focus from ICT [learning Word, learning Excel] to computing very quickly. This is a great idea because we're back to 'creation' as in the days of BASIC games rather than consumption.
But it's a human enterprise and YMMV, the teachers and the pupils will vary in ability and motivation. I live in one of the poorer parts of London and any kids that 'want' this may have a good future. They can't all be football or hip-hop stars. Secondly there's an initiative called Computing at School http://www.computingatschool.o... that promotes computational thinking. Even if you don't program, some of the problem solving techniques are universally applicable.
So one can find a lot to moan about, but there's a lot of promise/fun in this. I wrote my first program in about 1966 [FORTRAN on a mainframe] and I still enjoy it, in the UK that makes me [what they call] a 'sad' person.
Thanks, exactly echoes my thoughts. I'm in UK, Google has spying issues, tax issues, market distortion issues, I'll keep on buying Draytek for the moment, thanks.
Another me too. My borough Newham 'nearly' changed to Linux about 10 years ago. We need politicians and civil servants with a bit of courage and imagination. Of course, one or two of the first implementations will go wrong, but not 'wrong' like £6 billion odd that the Blair government wasted on the failed NHS project. I suspect that Corbyn will probably 'get' FOSS.
Yes, thanks. I'm in the UK and pretty-much independent [and old, incidentally], I now refuse contracts in places like this. I did contract work for a while in a place that was being taken over by Amazon, it was horrendous, I did the six months and didn't renew.
I'm in the UK, have worked for a company that was taken over by Amazon. It was pretty horrendous, metrics, continuous tension and shouting. I wouldn't work there again, and, I won't be asked, anyway.
In addition, because of their tax avoidance and now this, I'm buying less and less from and looking for an alternative to EC2. I'm aware that this will cost UK jobs, but I feel that I don't want to see any company like this in the future of the UK. Shame, because it's an inventive company and doesn't need all this shouting and screaming.
I'm a Londoner, not a big fan of Boris, the product of extreme privilege.
However the air is polluted in London [point a], many parts are medieval, twisty and narrow [point b], many journeys are a couple of miles [point c] and it's pretty flat in the centre [point d]. It's not flat in Hampstead, Muswell Hill or many places at the edges. So, as they say, two wheels good. People are getting killed by tipper trucks and we need this to encourage people onto cycles.
Yes, agree. The other 'thing' is simplicity, if a sensor is remote, you need crash-proofiness [I made that a fuzzy set, nothing is 100% crash-proof]. That has never been a 'feature' of any version of Windows, complex with the 'wrong sort of complexity'.
Currently I use Arduinos and compatibles for remote sensors and Pi2 for things I can get my hands on [near at hand time lapse, the garden, the house]. Yes, I could go to tailor made, but I don't need scale currently, so off the shelf is fine. I am looking at Risc OS for the Pis at the moment, on the same basis of reduced complexity.
That's basically a strawman argument. You've put mainstream use [text/program editor, surfing] up against a load of specialised tools [CAD, photo etc.]. FYI, I've had a Linux Mint desktop for about five years, I'm very happy with it. I'm not a gamer or a CAD person, I am a contract programmer, it's just a daily workhorse.
I'm expecting a lot of shilling and sock-puppetry in this thread anyway, money is at stake. Incidentally, from further up the thread, I'm 64, we have no problem with Linux because we started with Unix and derivatives, using the [makes air bunnies] 'command line'.
Yes agree. I teach Code Club in the UK and [in spite of a 40 year attachment to computing, I'm what they call a 'sad person'] I was wondering about forcing code down unwilling young throats. However, in the UK, Computing at School: http://www.computingatschool.o... broadens the area out to show, for example, that you can decompose and 'debug' non-computing problems.
So I think this blended approach of 'code' and 'code thinking' is a good way to go.
That's 'ici on fucking parle', please write it out a few hundred times on the walls of Paris. I'm not even going to start on hamsters, breath etc. etc. I have too much dignity.
Yes, I agree. I've worked on/off as contractor for the BBC in the last few years. However, since I spend my time dissing them [without anonymity] I doubt that's still an option. The BBC seems to have whole departments labeled Wheel-Reinvention [Squarish Lab]. The last thing that went south was the Digital Media Initiative, after a multi-million pound failure this was renamed Don't Mention It.
That said, this thing is a brain-dead toylet [as opposed to toilet, a different, bigger, quite useful thing] born of Not-Invented-Here. I volunteer teach Code Club: https://www.codeclub.org.uk/ and this just complicates matters as a distraction. It won't run Scratch [Raspberry Pi will] or the sort-of of processing [as I understand it] that the Arduino will. It's not a progression in any sense, can't take expansions [as can Pi, as can Arduino].
My 'hope' was that it would make a good wearable, but as I currently understand, it's not really good for that either. Lilypad is probably better. Like most Brits, I really value the BBC, but it has lost its way somewhat at the moment.
Last year, I invented an extra control that would allow me to slap Clarkson, assorted politicians, cakes I disliked on cookery shows etc. etc. I called it tele-slap [tm].
Implementation is proving a little challenging, nothing that £20m of frothy VC money won't cure though. Watch this space, but duck.
Yes, agree, was this an advertorial for infoworld? To be constructive, the 'really bad' are SCADA, infrastructure, IoT and [on their list] vehicle hacks. Water supply, power stations including nuclear, train signaling, electricity grid and [Lord forbid] weapons systems. Except for 'car', none of those are included.
ATM hacks just throw pieces of paper around, doesn't really do any physical damage. Consider it to be redistributive.
It used to be said that 'when America [meaning USA, sorry] sneezes the UK catches cold'. So, as a Londoner, I'm not at all surprised. Probably some of this data [because it's not information] is being 'exported' too, the data version of special rendition.
At the moment our 'imports' are TTIP, private healthcare, GMO crops, US banks, mall-shopping as an activity, cops as thugs, empty celebrity culture, reality TV, US payday lenders [quickquid, for example, is US owned] gangster rap and US style gangs etc. etc. probably because we share a language and to some extent a culture. Two thousand Met [London police] carry arms now too.
Before I'm jumped on, there's lots of things I admire in the US but they are not the things that are making their way into the UK.
Sorry, should have been clearer, I think Microsoft are concerned that UK government is taking open source more 'seriously' than previously. I live in Newham [a London borough] that 'nearly' switched to Linux, however everyone felt that it was probably a bargaining position rather than a real initiative. Now I think they're somewhat 'ready'. The irony is that in Canary Wharf, amongst the investment banks, not exactly hippies therefore, are full of all kinds of open source tools.
Yes, exactly. Being old and cynical that was my thought too. Show source 'A' but compile from source 'B'. Then we'll truly 'experience their committment to transparency' won't we?
The good thing about this is that UK government has made some fairly strong statements about considering open source when purchasing, for example: https://www.gov.uk/service-man... and I think they're a little concerned.
I just discovered Minetest, I wanted a completely open stack so that I could modify deeply, if necessary. I do voluntary work with Raspberry Pi and the Minecraft Python API [very good!] in the UK. There's a place for all of us, people who want just to play, people who want to add/modify 'a bit' and people [me] who may want to modify deeply. It's a spectrum of uses and users, not a war amongst them.
Slashdot Mirror
You've described existing infrastructure, but the important thing for the business is applications. That's the thing they need, every day. I worked in an infrastructure group in a UK investment bank, the only time they notice what you do, is when it snarls up or fails.
For example, there was a recent thread discussing whether Access has an open-source equivalent, IMO it doesn't really. So, if they use a lot of Access that will constrain upgrade path UNLESS they're prepared to take some risks and spend to take it out of the equation. But, mainly, the list of what's delivered to the business via the servers and on the desktop is the thing. No-one cares about infrastructure [except us, boo-hoo] as long as the price is right [including manpower] and it works.
It sounds, to me, like this is Windows desktops and Linux servers [and therefore Samba, LAMP etc. for example] this is not a bad way to live and many companies do so. That would mean that the client upgrades and server upgrades would be reasonably orthogonal, but I don't know all the details, either. To be honest, I'd be inclined to ask this on Server Fault, but unless there were more details, it's likely to be closed as being 'open ended'. Good luck!
It's really scary to see people asking this, apparently seriously, we've drifted so far from simplicity and standards back into a very specific world with lots more potential lock-in. This is the case for 'apps' too, they provide direct connection between the company and consumer, apart from snarfing up any data that they possibly can. Of course, I'm old, I do do apps and a lot of javascript, but I'm a big fan of open standards and KISS.
I don't have a iPhone and hardly ever change my phone anyway. This is pure consumer fetish behaviour. However, these accelerated product cycles put a lot of toxic stuff into landfill, waste a lot of energy and don't provide any extra utility. Listen carefully for the sound of 'maximising shareholder value' by supplying a great deal of negative ecological externality.
Yes agree. I do a fair amount of work with small non-profits in the UK and this is the main thing that they use. Nearest thing for one table [forgetting Ruby on Rails] is http://www.phpmyedit.org/ with https://www.apachefriends.org/... for example, but it doesn't deal with anything more complex.
My feeling is that Access applications should be re-coded as web, give them more reach and a saner architecture, but non-specialists can use [and make a mess with] Access. Maybe we need a migration toolchain, convert to MariaDb and generate web forms? That would still leave some manual work though.
Agree. I volunteer 'teach' https://www.codeclub.org.uk/ in the UK. The main article is true, not the teacher's fault, the government moved the focus from ICT [learning Word, learning Excel] to computing very quickly. This is a great idea because we're back to 'creation' as in the days of BASIC games rather than consumption.
But it's a human enterprise and YMMV, the teachers and the pupils will vary in ability and motivation. I live in one of the poorer parts of London and any kids that 'want' this may have a good future. They can't all be football or hip-hop stars. Secondly there's an initiative called Computing at School http://www.computingatschool.o... that promotes computational thinking. Even if you don't program, some of the problem solving techniques are universally applicable.
So one can find a lot to moan about, but there's a lot of promise/fun in this. I wrote my first program in about 1966 [FORTRAN on a mainframe] and I still enjoy it, in the UK that makes me [what they call] a 'sad' person.
Thanks, exactly echoes my thoughts. I'm in UK, Google has spying issues, tax issues, market distortion issues, I'll keep on buying Draytek for the moment, thanks.
Another me too. My borough Newham 'nearly' changed to Linux about 10 years ago. We need politicians and civil servants with a bit of courage and imagination. Of course, one or two of the first implementations will go wrong, but not 'wrong' like £6 billion odd that the Blair government wasted on the failed NHS project. I suspect that Corbyn will probably 'get' FOSS.
It's 'interesting' that this is marked 'withdrawn': https://www.gov.uk/government/...
Yes, thanks. I'm in the UK and pretty-much independent [and old, incidentally], I now refuse contracts in places like this. I did contract work for a while in a place that was being taken over by Amazon, it was horrendous, I did the six months and didn't renew.
I'm in the UK, have worked for a company that was taken over by Amazon. It was pretty horrendous, metrics, continuous tension and shouting. I wouldn't work there again, and, I won't be asked, anyway.
In addition, because of their tax avoidance and now this, I'm buying less and less from and looking for an alternative to EC2. I'm aware that this will cost UK jobs, but I feel that I don't want to see any company like this in the future of the UK. Shame, because it's an inventive company and doesn't need all this shouting and screaming.
I'm a Londoner, not a big fan of Boris, the product of extreme privilege.
However the air is polluted in London [point a], many parts are medieval, twisty and narrow [point b], many journeys are a couple of miles [point c] and it's pretty flat in the centre [point d]. It's not flat in Hampstead, Muswell Hill or many places at the edges. So, as they say, two wheels good. People are getting killed by tipper trucks and we need this to encourage people onto cycles.
Yes, agree. The other 'thing' is simplicity, if a sensor is remote, you need crash-proofiness [I made that a fuzzy set, nothing is 100% crash-proof]. That has never been a 'feature' of any version of Windows, complex with the 'wrong sort of complexity'.
Currently I use Arduinos and compatibles for remote sensors and Pi2 for things I can get my hands on [near at hand time lapse, the garden, the house]. Yes, I could go to tailor made, but I don't need scale currently, so off the shelf is fine. I am looking at Risc OS for the Pis at the moment, on the same basis of reduced complexity.
That's basically a strawman argument. You've put mainstream use [text/program editor, surfing] up against a load of specialised tools [CAD, photo etc.]. FYI, I've had a Linux Mint desktop for about five years, I'm very happy with it. I'm not a gamer or a CAD person, I am a contract programmer, it's just a daily workhorse.
I'm expecting a lot of shilling and sock-puppetry in this thread anyway, money is at stake. Incidentally, from further up the thread, I'm 64, we have no problem with Linux because we started with Unix and derivatives, using the [makes air bunnies] 'command line'.
Yes agree. I teach Code Club in the UK and [in spite of a 40 year attachment to computing, I'm what they call a 'sad person'] I was wondering about forcing code down unwilling young throats. However, in the UK, Computing at School: http://www.computingatschool.o... broadens the area out to show, for example, that you can decompose and 'debug' non-computing problems.
So I think this blended approach of 'code' and 'code thinking' is a good way to go.
That's really 'fuck ouais' giving you 'fuck yeah' in Metropolitan French, anyway.
That's 'ici on fucking parle', please write it out a few hundred times on the walls of Paris. I'm not even going to start on hamsters, breath etc. etc. I have too much dignity.
But extremely cowly owl to choose ODF.
Yes, I agree. I've worked on/off as contractor for the BBC in the last few years. However, since I spend my time dissing them [without anonymity] I doubt that's still an option. The BBC seems to have whole departments labeled Wheel-Reinvention [Squarish Lab]. The last thing that went south was the Digital Media Initiative, after a multi-million pound failure this was renamed Don't Mention It.
That said, this thing is a brain-dead toylet [as opposed to toilet, a different, bigger, quite useful thing] born of Not-Invented-Here. I volunteer teach Code Club: https://www.codeclub.org.uk/ and this just complicates matters as a distraction. It won't run Scratch [Raspberry Pi will] or the sort-of of processing [as I understand it] that the Arduino will. It's not a progression in any sense, can't take expansions [as can Pi, as can Arduino].
My 'hope' was that it would make a good wearable, but as I currently understand, it's not really good for that either. Lilypad is probably better. Like most Brits, I really value the BBC, but it has lost its way somewhat at the moment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... for older folks like me. These were big balls though, fnnarr fnnarr [for those in the UK that know Viz: http://viz.co.uk/
Well exactly, and the Kardashians are more important than war or hunger, certainly.
Last year, I invented an extra control that would allow me to slap Clarkson, assorted politicians, cakes I disliked on cookery shows etc. etc. I called it tele-slap [tm].
Implementation is proving a little challenging, nothing that £20m of frothy VC money won't cure though. Watch this space, but duck.
Yes, agree, was this an advertorial for infoworld? To be constructive, the 'really bad' are SCADA, infrastructure, IoT and [on their list] vehicle hacks. Water supply, power stations including nuclear, train signaling, electricity grid and [Lord forbid] weapons systems. Except for 'car', none of those are included.
ATM hacks just throw pieces of paper around, doesn't really do any physical damage. Consider it to be redistributive.
It used to be said that 'when America [meaning USA, sorry] sneezes the UK catches cold'. So, as a Londoner, I'm not at all surprised. Probably some of this data [because it's not information] is being 'exported' too, the data version of special rendition.
At the moment our 'imports' are TTIP, private healthcare, GMO crops, US banks, mall-shopping as an activity, cops as thugs, empty celebrity culture, reality TV, US payday lenders [quickquid, for example, is US owned] gangster rap and US style gangs etc. etc. probably because we share a language and to some extent a culture. Two thousand Met [London police] carry arms now too.
Before I'm jumped on, there's lots of things I admire in the US but they are not the things that are making their way into the UK.
Sorry, should have been clearer, I think Microsoft are concerned that UK government is taking open source more 'seriously' than previously. I live in Newham [a London borough] that 'nearly' switched to Linux, however everyone felt that it was probably a bargaining position rather than a real initiative. Now I think they're somewhat 'ready'. The irony is that in Canary Wharf, amongst the investment banks, not exactly hippies therefore, are full of all kinds of open source tools.
Yes, exactly. Being old and cynical that was my thought too. Show source 'A' but compile from source 'B'. Then we'll truly 'experience their committment to transparency' won't we?
The good thing about this is that UK government has made some fairly strong statements about considering open source when purchasing, for example: https://www.gov.uk/service-man... and I think they're a little concerned.
I just discovered Minetest, I wanted a completely open stack so that I could modify deeply, if necessary. I do voluntary work with Raspberry Pi and the Minecraft Python API [very good!] in the UK. There's a place for all of us, people who want just to play, people who want to add/modify 'a bit' and people [me] who may want to modify deeply. It's a spectrum of uses and users, not a war amongst them.