The flaw with this system is that all you have to do to steal the election is to manipulate the electronic totals so that a recount won't happen.
Well, no. It would be pretty much the same way the present system works. There is no recount unless there is a challenge or there is an automatic recount based on the local law, e.g., the margin is less than 1%. There would be enough recounts forced under normal laws to show whether or not there was a problem with the voting machines, and the challenges would be so randomly produced as to hopefully preclude any planning by the companies that make the machines. That being said, I'm a proponent of all voting machine software/firmware being open source - I just don't think it will happen under the current administration, so a paper trail is our best protection.
Wrong. This is yet another idea that has been addressed repeatedly in dozens of these discussions on Slashdot. Once anyone can prove how they voted (outside of the voting booth) the anonymous vote that we depend on is lost, and vote buying/extortion become possible. That's a Really Bad Idea.
Vote verification should be done inside the voting booth, and that paper verification should be deposited in a sealed ballot container in case it is needed in a recount. There is no way it should be able to be traced to the individual voter. There is a reason why we have history classes in school.
Could be. But what's your point? That the Diebold electronic voting system in particular is crappy software and should not trusted? Or that electronic voting itself is a disaster waiting to happen, something we are just not smart enough as a species to implement securely?
I could have missed something, but I don't think anyone is claiming that it can't be implemented. And it's not just Diebold, Sequoia Systems has had some major problems as well. When a voting machine turns in negative numbers, that's a problem.
The voting machine manufacturers have their own little consortium and hired that ITAA mouthpiece Harris Miller to spread confusion to the news media (his great talent). The companies have fought as hard as they can to eliminate any paper trail that could be used to check the numbers reported by their systems. And no, I don't think they are trying to rig an election, they just don't want anyone to be able to prove their machines can return faulty numbers (which they have been shown to do). Links to all this stuff should be available from blackboxvoting.org (or google on "volusia county voting"). I've provided links many times in the past, and it doesn't seem to help - we just get the same discussion over and over. Electronic voting without a verifiable recount (not requerry) capability is a disaster waiting to happen.
The same cafeteria lunch as every other Monday: green-meat-surprise sandwich with wilted lettuce, mac-and-cheese, and a fruit cup for dessert. (I'm assuming nothing has changed over the years.)
And how do we know that the prinout matches whatever counter is incremented within the computer? Being open source makes it tamper-resistent, not tamper-proof. Would it not be easier to just use a paper ballot in the first place?
It doesn't have anything to do with open source. It is about a voter-verified paper ballot that matches the electronic vote. Our previous system was not tamper-proof, only tamper-resistant. Our current system in some locales (e-voting with no paper trail) is not even tamper-resistant. And yes, it would be better to use paper in the first place, but that was made obsolete by legislators who were bought off by the companies that make the electronic voting machines. Have you been living under a rock somewhere? This is all about making the system tamper-resistant again, so we don't get a candidate with a negative number of votes (like from Volusia County, Florida) again.
Think about it, tv used to be free, now virtually evenyone has cable/satellite subscriptions.
We originally moved to cable TV to get away from commercials, but now we get to pay for those too although we still have more channel choices than broadcast.
Taping shows on your vcr is still free, however now everyone and their dog runs Tivo, sending a monthly check to them for the priviledge.
That can be fixed with a large hard drive. Look into MythTV.
Retailers that already have a physical presence in a state (retail stores) collect state sales taxes for online purchases. Purely online sales are protected by federal law (so far), although states are lobbying hard to get the exemption removed. The use tax doesn't really apply, and I don't think online retailers would be interested in becoming out-of-state tax collection agents - it's unpaid work for them.
What if I order a gift from an online retailer based in New York and have it sent to my brother in California, while I'm living in Colorado? What possible reason does Colorado have to tax the transaction? My credit card is from a company in Connecticut, and the phone company that provides my internet connection is headquartered in Delaware. Does a state get a cut of every single transaction I make just because I live there? What about when I'm on vacation in Hawaii? Is there a use tax on every dollar I spend that's due to Colorado?
Bollocks! You'd never be able to convince me that some guy can run a business AND have a hobby! It's IMPOSSIBLE! What's next? Next you're gonna tell me he's posting on internet forums on his days off!
Well, let's see. Last week he was running an IT sweatshop and complaining about taxes. Now, he's a retailer who is complaining about taxes. According to the AC, he may be a precious metals investor who no doubt complains about taxes. If you were doing all that and serious, would you be working to improve your retail business and perhaps trim your 20% profit, or would you just give up and spend all your time posting about how the goverment made you fail on Slashdot?
Your lowest paid works 15 hours a week for $65k a year! Sweet Jebus. Perhaps you're paying your staff a little too much.
If you check the guy's comments from last week, none of the numbers ever add up. He pays people minimum wage, yet they make huge salaries, but the government takes it all, but his employees love it, etc., etc. Perhaps he's exaggerating a little bit.
I do have a question though and your story confuses me a little. So not having taxes for online shops is what killed you? I'm not sure I understand how you went out of business. If you could clear up the confusion that would be great.
I agree. I'm a little confused also. I'm pretty sure that last week dada was claiming to be running a programming bodyshop while doing pretty much the same diatribe about taxes. Strange. In my experience, the only time online beats brick-and-mortar is when the locals have limited selection or the online store offers free shipping (which isn't common). Many major online retailers (BestBuy, Penneys, Sears, Circuit City, Barnes & Nobles, etc.) already collect state sales taxes.
before the gov't demands all those juicy sales taxes? You know its coming, especially after the huge growth in online sales every year.
Some companies, like BestBuy, already collect state sales taxes. However, when they offer free shipping like recently, it's still a great deal. Point-and-click shopping, no money spent on gasoline or time wasted dodging soccer moms in the mall, and let the UPS guy worry about road conditions.
No, that's why I specifically said "credit card debt". Which applies to people who lack even the basic self-control to save, then spend.
Debt is debt in a credit report, and people fresh out of college have had no chance to save anything. In this country, students go into debt to get the chance for a job that will help repay those debts.
There are the people you sell to, and the people you employ. I want quality employees, but I could give a shit who buys my products so long as they have the cash. That's called "capitalism".
You are what we ancients call "short-sighted". You don't have any idea what capitalism really is, and you don't understand how your greed and general unconcern will lead to your own destruction. There is no real capitalism in this country. We have a highly structured and regulated economy - if you believe anything else, you delude yourself. If you don't have an interest in the financial health of the people who buy your product(s), then you're even more wacky than you seem.
Despite the pseudo-libertarian blather spouted by many of the posters here on slashdot, the vast majority of them are just like any other American in that they're all talk and no action. When it comes to hard things like, say, taking a risk, or worse - facing reality - they go running like sheep to the welcoming arms of Daddy Government.
I'm no Libertarian (big or little "L") in any form. Your hero isn't taking any risk at all; he's transferring tax consequences to employees while paying minimum wage for IT workers. In short, he's a body shopper. Kathy Lee cried when she was caught doing the same with garment workers, so at least she had some guilt.
What they want is to live in some socialist shit-hole where there's never any real risk OR reward - and not just for themselves, but also for people like you who've proven that they've got balls.
Sorry, evading taxes doesn't take balls, just greed, and we have plenty of indicted CEOs to prove that. If you don't like the tax structure, work to change it - or do you just lack the, er, motivation?
This is precisely why the USA is a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to general culture; this is why americans are widely regarded as stupid, ignorant, uneducated and bigoted.
So what made you think dada, with his collection of "family" was originally from the U.S.?
Of course, only people who're actually capable of saving money are going to be able to handle this arrangement. The average person who has tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt because they can't live within their means right now isn't going to be able to cut it.
Um, I'm long out of the category, but I guess you aren't talking about the U.S. where new graduates have tens of thousands of dollars in debt for an education that is supposed to get them a job that pays more than minimum wage. And aside from New York, even more debt for a car to get to the job is usually required.
And good riddance, because what employer wants that sort of employee working for them anyway?
Yeah, right on. What kind of employer wants to employ the kind of person that they are so busy targeting as a sales demographic?. Do you see the irony by any chance?
It is really difficult, and one of the reasons I am anti-government. Taxes take a HUGE chunk out of bonuses, but it shows the employees the reality of our government taxing schemes.
Taxes pay for the infrastructure you are using and the commitments the govermnent has made to the workers you are using. By underpaying them, you reduce your taxes and shift the burden to them while possibly reducing their eventual retirement income as well. The reason bonuses are taxed at a higher rate is because they are taxed based on the time period. If you paid your employees better, they wouldn't take the tax hit, but you would be required to pay more each quarter, so please don't claim it's some educational tax lesson for employees.
I don't believe in 401Ks or employer compensation of health care or any of that nonsense -- they were originally just ways to get around taxing mechanisms and are now considered mandatory
The health insurance deals were originally due to wage freezes during WWII. However, that resulted in a condition today where affordable health insurance can generally be found only through group (i.e. company) policies. 401k shouldn't affect you since you could base it on a discretionary percentage of profit and reduce the bonuses - unless you're just objecting to the minor accounting involved. I'm sorry, but after reading this thread, it sounds to me like you're ditching your responsibilities, biting the hand that feeds you, and taking your [friends|family|employees|whatever] for a ride.
I can't divulge all of my secrets, though, as that is part of how I sell my business to future employees.
I think Ebenezer Scrooge revealed all your business secrets long ago, and a belated Merry Christmas to you.
you try running 4 miles per hour (6ft/second) for an extended period of time with 100lbs on your back.
4 MPH is a quick walk, which is the suit's max. You won't be "running" anywhere in that, and the external load is 70 pounds - not that much greater than a 50-pound pack. The 100 pounds is the weight of the unit itself.
The great thing I see about this technology is that it would allow the country to reinstate the draft and be fair about who is chosen to go. The burden would no longer be on the youngest just because of physical ability. This should allow all the government and corporate warhawks to put their butt where there mouth is (or perhaps that's an oxymoron). A few dead legislators and CEOs in combat would likely make war less popular in D.C. (As an old guy who served, it's just my opinion.)
This isn't to say they couldn't have recieved even more value for thier money if microsoft didn't do what it did, it just means they didn't get completley riped off.
Well, that seems offtopic, but it could be a great slogan for MS: "You didn't get completely ripped off." (TM)
Campain contributions don't neccesarily mean protection money.there have been several cases were this has backfired. This apears to indicate martha was contributing quite a bit though.
Your link indicates that Martha gave 1700 x to the party not in power. I'm a Republican, and that still looks like even more circumstancial evidence to me. Martha got Borked.
Wait, this is supposed to be about justice? My bad...
All too true. A legal officer once told me the system was about applying jurisprudence, not dispensing justice - there is a huge difference. (And it's a sad fact for most of us.)
Slashdot Mirror
So it's earth-like how?
Well, it sounds a lot like North Dakota, so the question becomes, can I get broadband access, and will my company pay for relocation expenses? :)
The flaw with this system is that all you have to do to steal the election is to manipulate the electronic totals so that a recount won't happen.
Well, no. It would be pretty much the same way the present system works. There is no recount unless there is a challenge or there is an automatic recount based on the local law, e.g., the margin is less than 1%. There would be enough recounts forced under normal laws to show whether or not there was a problem with the voting machines, and the challenges would be so randomly produced as to hopefully preclude any planning by the companies that make the machines. That being said, I'm a proponent of all voting machine software/firmware being open source - I just don't think it will happen under the current administration, so a paper trail is our best protection.
Wrong. This is yet another idea that has been addressed repeatedly in dozens of these discussions on Slashdot. Once anyone can prove how they voted (outside of the voting booth) the anonymous vote that we depend on is lost, and vote buying/extortion become possible. That's a Really Bad Idea.
Vote verification should be done inside the voting booth, and that paper verification should be deposited in a sealed ballot container in case it is needed in a recount. There is no way it should be able to be traced to the individual voter. There is a reason why we have history classes in school.
Could be. But what's your point? That the Diebold electronic voting system in particular is crappy software and should not trusted? Or that electronic voting itself is a disaster waiting to happen, something we are just not smart enough as a species to implement securely?
I could have missed something, but I don't think anyone is claiming that it can't be implemented. And it's not just Diebold, Sequoia Systems has had some major problems as well. When a voting machine turns in negative numbers, that's a problem.
The voting machine manufacturers have their own little consortium and hired that ITAA mouthpiece Harris Miller to spread confusion to the news media (his great talent). The companies have fought as hard as they can to eliminate any paper trail that could be used to check the numbers reported by their systems. And no, I don't think they are trying to rig an election, they just don't want anyone to be able to prove their machines can return faulty numbers (which they have been shown to do). Links to all this stuff should be available from blackboxvoting.org (or google on "volusia county voting"). I've provided links many times in the past, and it doesn't seem to help - we just get the same discussion over and over. Electronic voting without a verifiable recount (not requerry) capability is a disaster waiting to happen.
He forgot to warn him about the kidney stone.
In other news, UNIX is on 100% of all developer machines in my basement garage.
Isn't it difficult to get your car out of there?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure someone out there must have the patent on the sledgehammer.
Nope. Prior art goes all the way back to a drawing on a cave wall. Even the USPTO couldn't get around that.
The same cafeteria lunch as every other Monday: green-meat-surprise sandwich with wilted lettuce, mac-and-cheese, and a fruit cup for dessert. (I'm assuming nothing has changed over the years.)
And how do we know that the prinout matches whatever counter is incremented within the computer? Being open source makes it tamper-resistent, not tamper-proof. Would it not be easier to just use a paper ballot in the first place?
It doesn't have anything to do with open source. It is about a voter-verified paper ballot that matches the electronic vote. Our previous system was not tamper-proof, only tamper-resistant. Our current system in some locales (e-voting with no paper trail) is not even tamper-resistant. And yes, it would be better to use paper in the first place, but that was made obsolete by legislators who were bought off by the companies that make the electronic voting machines. Have you been living under a rock somewhere? This is all about making the system tamper-resistant again, so we don't get a candidate with a negative number of votes (like from Volusia County, Florida) again.
Think about it, tv used to be free, now virtually evenyone has cable/satellite subscriptions.
We originally moved to cable TV to get away from commercials, but now we get to pay for those too although we still have more channel choices than broadcast.
Taping shows on your vcr is still free, however now everyone and their dog runs Tivo, sending a monthly check to them for the priviledge.
That can be fixed with a large hard drive. Look into MythTV.
Retailers that already have a physical presence in a state (retail stores) collect state sales taxes for online purchases. Purely online sales are protected by federal law (so far), although states are lobbying hard to get the exemption removed. The use tax doesn't really apply, and I don't think online retailers would be interested in becoming out-of-state tax collection agents - it's unpaid work for them.
What if I order a gift from an online retailer based in New York and have it sent to my brother in California, while I'm living in Colorado? What possible reason does Colorado have to tax the transaction? My credit card is from a company in Connecticut, and the phone company that provides my internet connection is headquartered in Delaware. Does a state get a cut of every single transaction I make just because I live there? What about when I'm on vacation in Hawaii? Is there a use tax on every dollar I spend that's due to Colorado?
Bollocks! You'd never be able to convince me that some guy can run a business AND have a hobby! It's IMPOSSIBLE! What's next? Next you're gonna tell me he's posting on internet forums on his days off!
Well, let's see. Last week he was running an IT sweatshop and complaining about taxes. Now, he's a retailer who is complaining about taxes. According to the AC, he may be a precious metals investor who no doubt complains about taxes. If you were doing all that and serious, would you be working to improve your retail business and perhaps trim your 20% profit, or would you just give up and spend all your time posting about how the goverment made you fail on Slashdot?
Your lowest paid works 15 hours a week for $65k a year! Sweet Jebus. Perhaps you're paying your staff a little too much.
If you check the guy's comments from last week, none of the numbers ever add up. He pays people minimum wage, yet they make huge salaries, but the government takes it all, but his employees love it, etc., etc. Perhaps he's exaggerating a little bit.
I do have a question though and your story confuses me a little. So not having taxes for online shops is what killed you? I'm not sure I understand how you went out of business. If you could clear up the confusion that would be great.
I agree. I'm a little confused also. I'm pretty sure that last week dada was claiming to be running a programming bodyshop while doing pretty much the same diatribe about taxes. Strange. In my experience, the only time online beats brick-and-mortar is when the locals have limited selection or the online store offers free shipping (which isn't common). Many major online retailers (BestBuy, Penneys, Sears, Circuit City, Barnes & Nobles, etc.) already collect state sales taxes.
Was it a genuine Pons and Fleischmann or just some cheap foreign copy?
before the gov't demands all those juicy sales taxes? You know its coming, especially after the huge growth in online sales every year.
Some companies, like BestBuy, already collect state sales taxes. However, when they offer free shipping like recently, it's still a great deal. Point-and-click shopping, no money spent on gasoline or time wasted dodging soccer moms in the mall, and let the UPS guy worry about road conditions.
No, that's why I specifically said "credit card debt". Which applies to people who lack even the basic self-control to save, then spend.
Debt is debt in a credit report, and people fresh out of college have had no chance to save anything. In this country, students go into debt to get the chance for a job that will help repay those debts.
There are the people you sell to, and the people you employ. I want quality employees, but I could give a shit who buys my products so long as they have the cash. That's called "capitalism".
You are what we ancients call "short-sighted". You don't have any idea what capitalism really is, and you don't understand how your greed and general unconcern will lead to your own destruction. There is no real capitalism in this country. We have a highly structured and regulated economy - if you believe anything else, you delude yourself. If you don't have an interest in the financial health of the people who buy your product(s), then you're even more wacky than you seem.
Despite the pseudo-libertarian blather spouted by many of the posters here on slashdot, the vast majority of them are just like any other American in that they're all talk and no action. When it comes to hard things like, say, taking a risk, or worse - facing reality - they go running like sheep to the welcoming arms of Daddy Government.
I'm no Libertarian (big or little "L") in any form. Your hero isn't taking any risk at all; he's transferring tax consequences to employees while paying minimum wage for IT workers. In short, he's a body shopper. Kathy Lee cried when she was caught doing the same with garment workers, so at least she had some guilt.
What they want is to live in some socialist shit-hole where there's never any real risk OR reward - and not just for themselves, but also for people like you who've proven that they've got balls.
Sorry, evading taxes doesn't take balls, just greed, and we have plenty of indicted CEOs to prove that. If you don't like the tax structure, work to change it - or do you just lack the, er, motivation?
This is precisely why the USA is a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to general culture; this is why americans are widely regarded as stupid, ignorant, uneducated and bigoted.
So what made you think dada, with his collection of "family" was originally from the U.S.?
Of course, only people who're actually capable of saving money are going to be able to handle this arrangement. The average person who has tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt because they can't live within their means right now isn't going to be able to cut it.
Um, I'm long out of the category, but I guess you aren't talking about the U.S. where new graduates have tens of thousands of dollars in debt for an education that is supposed to get them a job that pays more than minimum wage. And aside from New York, even more debt for a car to get to the job is usually required.
And good riddance, because what employer wants that sort of employee working for them anyway?
Yeah, right on. What kind of employer wants to employ the kind of person that they are so busy targeting as a sales demographic?. Do you see the irony by any chance?
It is really difficult, and one of the reasons I am anti-government. Taxes take a HUGE chunk out of bonuses, but it shows the employees the reality of our government taxing schemes.
Taxes pay for the infrastructure you are using and the commitments the govermnent has made to the workers you are using. By underpaying them, you reduce your taxes and shift the burden to them while possibly reducing their eventual retirement income as well. The reason bonuses are taxed at a higher rate is because they are taxed based on the time period. If you paid your employees better, they wouldn't take the tax hit, but you would be required to pay more each quarter, so please don't claim it's some educational tax lesson for employees.
I don't believe in 401Ks or employer compensation of health care or any of that nonsense -- they were originally just ways to get around taxing mechanisms and are now considered mandatory
The health insurance deals were originally due to wage freezes during WWII. However, that resulted in a condition today where affordable health insurance can generally be found only through group (i.e. company) policies. 401k shouldn't affect you since you could base it on a discretionary percentage of profit and reduce the bonuses - unless you're just objecting to the minor accounting involved. I'm sorry, but after reading this thread, it sounds to me like you're ditching your responsibilities, biting the hand that feeds you, and taking your [friends|family|employees|whatever] for a ride.
I can't divulge all of my secrets, though, as that is part of how I sell my business to future employees.
I think Ebenezer Scrooge revealed all your business secrets long ago, and a belated Merry Christmas to you.
you try running 4 miles per hour (6ft/second) for an extended period of time with 100lbs on your back.
4 MPH is a quick walk, which is the suit's max. You won't be "running" anywhere in that, and the external load is 70 pounds - not that much greater than a 50-pound pack. The 100 pounds is the weight of the unit itself.
The great thing I see about this technology is that it would allow the country to reinstate the draft and be fair about who is chosen to go. The burden would no longer be on the youngest just because of physical ability. This should allow all the government and corporate warhawks to put their butt where there mouth is (or perhaps that's an oxymoron). A few dead legislators and CEOs in combat would likely make war less popular in D.C. (As an old guy who served, it's just my opinion.)
BTW, a MechWarrior Battletech Battlemech, or WTH ever it is called, also goes by another name: sitting duck.
As anyone who has played Zone of the Enders can tell you, battlemechs have definite, er, advantages in certain departments.
This isn't to say they couldn't have recieved even more value for thier money if microsoft didn't do what it did, it just means they didn't get completley riped off.
Well, that seems offtopic, but it could be a great slogan for MS: "You didn't get completely ripped off." (TM)
Campain contributions don't neccesarily mean protection money.there have been several cases were this has backfired. This apears to indicate martha was contributing quite a bit though.
Your link indicates that Martha gave 1700 x to the party not in power. I'm a Republican, and that still looks like even more circumstancial evidence to me. Martha got Borked.
Wait, this is supposed to be about justice? My bad...
All too true. A legal officer once told me the system was about applying jurisprudence, not dispensing justice - there is a huge difference. (And it's a sad fact for most of us.)