In other words, the economically disadvantaged should be denied a higher education.
I never said that. I said that if you're going to start giving out free college educations, give it to the non-criminal economically disadvantaged people first, and to the criminals second. You want to raise everybody's taxes, including your own, enough to pay for universal college education? I'm willing to entertain the suggestion, even if I have to pay more taxes for it. But I would insist that the poor-but-honest people benefit first, the poor-and-criminal second, and the wealthy-and-criminal dead last.
It's horrible, a waste of money only matched by the incredible amounts of money we waste on the military.
I used to think that, but right now, at this time, I'm glad we have every bit of military capability that we have. But that's a discussion for another day...
...You could argue that they implicitly chose it for themselves when they committed the crime
Bingo.
But when you consider that most of them are there for nonviolent crimes...
Not relevant.
at some point we should consider why the law is criminalizing so many people
The law isn't criminalizing people. It's criminalizing undesirable behavior. And there is plenty of undesirable behavior that is non-violent. Selling drugs, theft, fraud, etc. All non-violent, but also not victimless either.
but when you look at the larger picture we are all responsible
I don't see how. Yes it is our society and we made it. But we made it give free primary and secondary education to everyone, and we made it provide welfare to those who need it. There is no excuse for criminal behavior, and especially no excuse for violent criminal behavior.
Does treating them like subhuman scum do us any good in the long run? No.
I never suggested treating them like subhuman scum. I only suggest that they should not be given for free what anyone else has to pay for. Except basic needs (food and water, and occasionally medicine). They don't need a high-tech college education. They need a basic secondary (i.e. high school) education. That's all law-abiding citizens get for free, and that's all criminals should get for free. There are plenty of jobs for which that is sufficient. Let them deliver pizzas, wait tables, mop floors, and pump gas. We don't need to turn them into webmasters.
I see. Hmmm, should I take out a student loan to attend Penn State, or should I sell crack in front of the police station so that I can get my free degree from the state penn?
Why should criminals get their education paid for by taxpayers while honest folks have to pay for their own education? Why stop with web development? Why not expand that to things like aeronautical engineering?
Want to teach them something? Teach them how to sweep litter off the sidewalks or pick up roadkill from the streets. Leave web development to those who have some software development skills. After all, not everything can simply be whipped up in FontPage.
This is kinda long, but I thought you might enjoy this little exchange
between me and Hewlett-Packard customer support. It gets funner as you
get further down. The last line is almost too funny to be true.
I bought an HP Deskjet printer. It came with a hardcopy "Quick Reference"
guide, which made reference to a more complete "User's Guide", which was
nowhere to be found. It also came with an on-line "Quick Help" when the
software was installed. I went to HP's customer support web site to ask
about the "User's Guide". The following is from my entry in their web
submission form. The subsequent email conversation was edited for formatting
and to remove superfluous boilerplate.
CV> problem_description : Page 3 of Quick Ref Guide refers to page 6 for
CV> opening up the on-line User's Guide, but page 6 says to run the CD-ROM
CV> setup program and select "View User's Guide". But there is no "View
CV> User's Guide" on the main HP Deskjet install screen. So, the problem is
CV> that I can't find the full User's Guide. The only available on-line
CV> documentation is the "Quick Help". Where is the full User's Guide?
And HP's reply:
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you need user manual for your HP Deskjet 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> The user manuals are provided on the HP web site. Please click on the
HP> link given below to download the user manual.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet928 176_eng_man.html
HP>
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Hello-
CV> Thank you for providing me with the link to the documentation page at
CV> HP's web site. Unfortunately, I checked that page and the only documents
CV> available are:
CV> 1) Windows XP Update Guide
CV> 2) Quick Reference Guide (hardcopy of which came with the printer and
CV> referred me to the User's Guide)
CV> 3) Quick Help (which is installed locally from the CD-ROM included with
CV> the printer).
CV>
CV> The Quick Reference guide distinguishes the "User's Guide" from the
CV> "Quick Help" and the "Quick Reference Guide". So apparently there is a
CV> document called the "User's Guide" which I have yet to be able to
locate.
CV> It is not included in hardcopy format, it is not installed from the
CV> CD-ROM, and it is not on the Website. Have I missed anything?
CV>
CV> thanks,
CV> Chris Volpe
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet928 176_eng_man.html
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV>
CV> Thank you again for your reply. For the third time, I feel the need to
CV> point out that the information at that site is NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING
CV> FOR. As I already stated, I have the Quick Reference Guide. It came
CV> with the printer. It came in hardcopy form, and is identical to the
CV> Quick Reference Guide that you advised me to download from the web
CV> site. But the Quick Reference Guide is DIFFERENT FROM the User's
CV> Guide. The Quick Reference Guide, on page 3, draws a distinction
CV> between itself and the User's Guide. There's a table on page 3 that
CV> tells what documentation to consult in order to obtain certain
CV> kinds of information. The second row in that table refers to the
CV> "User's Guide". The third row in that table refers to the "Quick
CV> Reference Guide". And the fourth row in the table points to the
CV> "Windows Network Guide". I already have both the Quick Reference
CV> Guide and the Windows Network Guide. But the elusive User's Guide
CV> is nowhere to be found. It was not included with the printer, and
CV> it is not available for download from the web page you pointed me
CV> to. I would be most grateful if you would help me find the USER'S
CV> GUIDE. Not the Quick Reference Guide, which I already have, but the
CV> USER'S GUIDE. I look forward to hearing from you, and I hope that
CV> this time I have adequately and clearly explained the problem.
CV> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
CV>
CV> Sincerely,
CV>
CV> Christopher Volpe
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet928 176_eng_man.html
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual
HP>
HP> In the U.S.
HP> -----------
HP> To order User's Guides, contact HP Parts Direct Ordering at
HP> 800-227-8164.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV> Could you please pass my support request on to someone else who is
CV> willing to read my message and understand, as I have stated three
CV> times already, that I do not need the Quick Reference Guide, which you
CV> persistently advise me to download? I'm sure there must be someone
CV> there who is willing to take the time to understand the issue and not
CV> keep sending me the same response. Thanks very much.
CV>
CV> -Chris
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you require the full User's Guide for your DJ 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> I would like to inform you that the full version of the User's Guide for
HP> your printer is not available. The only manuals available for your
HP> printer are the Quick Help and the Quick Reference Guide. For further
HP> assistance or more information, I suggest you contact HP Phone Support.
HP>
HP> It is HP's goal to assist customers as quickly and as efficiently as
HP> possible. It sometimes is much easier to resolve the issue when
HP> talking live with a technician. The phone number in the US is
HP> 208-323-2551. Business hours are Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to
HP> 10:00 p.m. MT and Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.MT.
HP>
HP> Other HP Customer Care phone numbers can be found in your User's Guide
When I read that last sentence, I nearly fell out of my chair.
But when 95% of all online purchases are made from Windows machines, then from a business point of view it doesn't make sense to worry about the other 1%.
I absolutely, totally, and completely agree with you 96%.
How is this $260 down the drain? You've got 10 Certificates of Authenticity and 10 CD-KEYs, right? That's all the proof you need that you own 10 licenses.
Might I siggest that it is sufficient to say ninety users have been dropped and that there is no need to specify that to three decimal places? I can't think of 1.000 good reason why it is necessary to be that precise.
I really can't envision Microsoft making a EU compliant Windows sans IE, Windows Media, Chat, etc., for them and a bundled Windows for the rest of the world.
I'm sure others are thinking the same thing, they don't want to pay for a service that only 200 people would use, but they're not willing to sign up until there are more people.
So Napster gives 6 months free to the first 300 subscribers, or the first 50 subscribers within each of a handful of musical genres. People will jump at the chance to be one of the first 300 people, and others will pay once they see that there's content to be had.
Access to www.tuxedo.org has been denied by SurfControl.
Hey, I like Eric's stuff just as much as the next guy, but in light of what's been going on in schools the past few years, I can understand not wanting kids to have exposure to things that romanticize the power to kill. From the first paragraph of ESR's Ethics From the Barrel of a Gun:
There is nothing like having your finger on the trigger of a gun to reveal who you really are. Life or death in one twitch -- ultimate decision, with the ultimate price for carelessness or bad choices.
Now, I'm not saying kids shouldn't be exposed at all to arguments, from either side, about gun control. But let's not give the world the false impression that SurfControl is trying to protect kids from OpenSource, ok?
Suppose an OEM wants to sell dual boot machines, but is afraid of Microsoft's wrath. What's to stop them from selling a computer with Windows-only pre-installed at time of sale, and offering to install BeOS afterwards for a nominal charge?
That's a strawman. Find me one public school that teaches students that God doesn't exist. And don't try to claim that keeping religion out of the classroom is the same as teaching that God doesn't exist, because it isn't the same thing.
Slashdot Mirror
In other words, the economically disadvantaged should be denied a higher education.
I never said that. I said that if you're going to start giving out free college educations, give it to the non-criminal economically disadvantaged people first, and to the criminals second. You want to raise everybody's taxes, including your own, enough to pay for universal college education? I'm willing to entertain the suggestion, even if I have to pay more taxes for it. But I would insist that the poor-but-honest people benefit first, the poor-and-criminal second, and the wealthy-and-criminal dead last.
It's horrible, a waste of money only matched by the incredible amounts of money we waste on the military.
I used to think that, but right now, at this time, I'm glad we have every bit of military capability that we have. But that's a discussion for another day...
...You could argue that they implicitly chose it for themselves when they committed the crime
Bingo.
But when you consider that most of them are there for nonviolent crimes...
Not relevant.
at some point we should consider why the law is criminalizing so many people
The law isn't criminalizing people. It's criminalizing undesirable behavior. And there is plenty of undesirable behavior that is non-violent. Selling drugs, theft, fraud, etc. All non-violent, but also not victimless either.
but when you look at the larger picture we are all responsible
I don't see how. Yes it is our society and we made it. But we made it give free primary and secondary education to everyone, and we made it provide welfare to those who need it. There is no excuse for criminal behavior, and especially no excuse for violent criminal behavior.
Does treating them like subhuman scum do us any good in the long run? No.
I never suggested treating them like subhuman scum. I only suggest that they should not be given for free what anyone else has to pay for. Except basic needs (food and water, and occasionally medicine). They don't need a high-tech college education. They need a basic secondary (i.e. high school) education. That's all law-abiding citizens get for free, and that's all criminals should get for free. There are plenty of jobs for which that is sufficient. Let them deliver pizzas, wait tables, mop floors, and pump gas. We don't need to turn them into webmasters.
I'd rather my taxes be spent educating the law abiding citizens before we spend it educating the criminals.
And whoever moderated the grandparent (of this) post as "Troll" is going to get meta-moderated as "unfair".
I see. Hmmm, should I take out a student loan to attend Penn State, or should I sell crack in front of the police station so that I can get my free degree from the state penn?
Why should criminals get their education paid for by taxpayers while honest folks have to pay for their own education? Why stop with web development? Why not expand that to things like aeronautical engineering?
Want to teach them something? Teach them how to sweep litter off the sidewalks or pick up roadkill from the streets. Leave web development to those who have some software development skills. After all, not everything can simply be whipped up in FontPage.
This is kinda long, but I thought you might enjoy this little exchange
8 176_eng_man.html
8 176_eng_man.html
8 176_eng_man.html
between me and Hewlett-Packard customer support. It gets funner as you
get further down. The last line is almost too funny to be true.
I bought an HP Deskjet printer. It came with a hardcopy "Quick Reference"
guide, which made reference to a more complete "User's Guide", which was
nowhere to be found. It also came with an on-line "Quick Help" when the
software was installed. I went to HP's customer support web site to ask
about the "User's Guide". The following is from my entry in their web
submission form. The subsequent email conversation was edited for formatting
and to remove superfluous boilerplate.
CV> problem_description : Page 3 of Quick Ref Guide refers to page 6 for
CV> opening up the on-line User's Guide, but page 6 says to run the CD-ROM
CV> setup program and select "View User's Guide". But there is no "View
CV> User's Guide" on the main HP Deskjet install screen. So, the problem is
CV> that I can't find the full User's Guide. The only available on-line
CV> documentation is the "Quick Help". Where is the full User's Guide?
And HP's reply:
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you need user manual for your HP Deskjet 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> The user manuals are provided on the HP web site. Please click on the
HP> link given below to download the user manual.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Hello-
CV> Thank you for providing me with the link to the documentation page at
CV> HP's web site. Unfortunately, I checked that page and the only documents
CV> available are:
CV> 1) Windows XP Update Guide
CV> 2) Quick Reference Guide (hardcopy of which came with the printer and
CV> referred me to the User's Guide)
CV> 3) Quick Help (which is installed locally from the CD-ROM included with
CV> the printer).
CV>
CV> The Quick Reference guide distinguishes the "User's Guide" from the
CV> "Quick Help" and the "Quick Reference Guide". So apparently there is a
CV> document called the "User's Guide" which I have yet to be able to
locate.
CV> It is not included in hardcopy format, it is not installed from the
CV> CD-ROM, and it is not on the Website. Have I missed anything?
CV>
CV> thanks,
CV> Chris Volpe
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV>
CV> Thank you again for your reply. For the third time, I feel the need to
CV> point out that the information at that site is NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING
CV> FOR. As I already stated, I have the Quick Reference Guide. It came
CV> with the printer. It came in hardcopy form, and is identical to the
CV> Quick Reference Guide that you advised me to download from the web
CV> site. But the Quick Reference Guide is DIFFERENT FROM the User's
CV> Guide. The Quick Reference Guide, on page 3, draws a distinction
CV> between itself and the User's Guide. There's a table on page 3 that
CV> tells what documentation to consult in order to obtain certain
CV> kinds of information. The second row in that table refers to the
CV> "User's Guide". The third row in that table refers to the "Quick
CV> Reference Guide". And the fourth row in the table points to the
CV> "Windows Network Guide". I already have both the Quick Reference
CV> Guide and the Windows Network Guide. But the elusive User's Guide
CV> is nowhere to be found. It was not included with the printer, and
CV> it is not available for download from the web page you pointed me
CV> to. I would be most grateful if you would help me find the USER'S
CV> GUIDE. Not the Quick Reference Guide, which I already have, but the
CV> USER'S GUIDE. I look forward to hearing from you, and I hope that
CV> this time I have adequately and clearly explained the problem.
CV> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
CV>
CV> Sincerely,
CV>
CV> Christopher Volpe
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you have an issue with the users guide for the
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> To download the manual, please go to the link below.
HP>
HP> http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hpdeskjet92
HP>
HP> On the web page, right click on "HP Deskjet 990C, 980C, and 960C
HP> Printers - (Multiple Languages) Quick Reference Guide" and select " save
HP> target as" option from the list to proceed with the downloading of the
HP> manual
HP>
HP> In the U.S.
HP> -----------
HP> To order User's Guides, contact HP Parts Direct Ordering at
HP> 800-227-8164.
HP>
HP> Best regards,
HP> Alex
HP> HP Customer Solutions Team
CV> Alex-
CV> Could you please pass my support request on to someone else who is
CV> willing to read my message and understand, as I have stated three
CV> times already, that I do not need the Quick Reference Guide, which you
CV> persistently advise me to download? I'm sure there must be someone
CV> there who is willing to take the time to understand the issue and not
CV> keep sending me the same response. Thanks very much.
CV>
CV> -Chris
HP> Hello Christopher,
HP>
HP> Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.
HP>
HP> I understand that you require the full User's Guide for your DJ 960Cse
HP> printer.
HP>
HP> I would like to inform you that the full version of the User's Guide for
HP> your printer is not available. The only manuals available for your
HP> printer are the Quick Help and the Quick Reference Guide. For further
HP> assistance or more information, I suggest you contact HP Phone Support.
HP>
HP> It is HP's goal to assist customers as quickly and as efficiently as
HP> possible. It sometimes is much easier to resolve the issue when
HP> talking live with a technician. The phone number in the US is
HP> 208-323-2551. Business hours are Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to
HP> 10:00 p.m. MT and Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.MT.
HP>
HP> Other HP Customer Care phone numbers can be found in your User's Guide
When I read that last sentence, I nearly fell out of my chair.
-Chris
We already "pay" for the site by submitting content!
Yes, but Slashdot can not exactly use that content to barter with the electric company, the ISP, the hard drive vendor, etc...
But when 95% of all online purchases are made from Windows machines, then from a business point of view it doesn't make sense to worry about the other 1%.
I absolutely, totally, and completely agree with you 96%.
setenv ACCENT "Foghorn-Leghorn"
echo "That's a joke, son. Ah say, ah say, that's a joke"
How is this $260 down the drain? You've got 10 Certificates of Authenticity and 10 CD-KEYs, right? That's all the proof you need that you own 10 licenses.
Might I siggest that it is sufficient to say ninety users have been dropped and that there is no need to specify that to three decimal places? I can't think of 1.000 good reason why it is necessary to be that precise.
:-)
You can't?? Surely you must be aware of what lengths corporations will go to in order to maximize profits in multiple markets.
Don't we have a halfway decent peer-review system right here on
"Hey, baby, what's your GUID?"
Yes.
Or are you suggesting that you are *entitled* to hear the songs you want to hear, despite whether the station wants to play them?
Hey, I like Eric's stuff just as much as the next guy, but in light of what's been going on in schools the past few years, I can understand not wanting kids to have exposure to things that romanticize the power to kill. From the first paragraph of ESR's Ethics From the Barrel of a Gun:
Now, I'm not saying kids shouldn't be exposed at all to arguments, from either side, about gun control. But let's not give the world the false impression that SurfControl is trying to protect kids from OpenSource, ok?No matter how smart they get, we can still outrun them .
Suppose an OEM wants to sell dual boot machines, but is afraid of Microsoft's wrath. What's to stop them from selling a computer with Windows-only pre-installed at time of sale, and offering to install BeOS afterwards for a nominal charge?
That's a strawman. Find me one public school that teaches students that God doesn't exist. And don't try to claim that keeping religion out of the classroom is the same as teaching that God doesn't exist, because it isn't the same thing.
[epitome of lameness elided for brevity]
*This* makes it past the lameness filter, but the shell script I tried to post last month didn't?!?!? Grrrr....
... they called it "flutter and wow".
The converse is also true, and it is not restricted to companies. For example:
Earth: mostly harmless