flop
flop
oh and i dont want to point ouot that the highest selling girl band of all time TLC actually went bankrupt or anything..... but they did.
as much as i hate pop music if someone sells 5 million records they made the industry what 60 million ? minimum ?
they see what out of that ?
advertising and shit should be dictated by simple economics if you advertise it and it sells keep doing it, if not change your marketing technique. but does the riaa do this ? NOPE ! they keep on trying to "market" style and all this BS instead of the actual product because their product friggin blows and they know it.
oh and did they take 5 mil away from Ms roberts for advertising and stage time ? dont think so.
actually i thought i learned about artists by reading people's reviews/recomendations on amazon.com and then downloading stuff from limewire.
but then again i shouldnt matter since 95% of the stuff i listen too is indy, and 100% of the stuff i pay for is indy.
and its funny how the mpaa can bay julia roberts 20mil per flick regardless of weather its a hit or not but some how alot of the highest selling musicians of all time are broke because they done get paid jack sh!t.
like i said... you test development code on a development box. call it a petri dish, sandbox or whatever its all the same -- its a testing box.
i agree with what you just said. but i do not agree with your POV on the code/scripting thing. not like it matters too me, im good at my job and i never have problems with any of the stuff i do. (i even admin off to the side part time as well.) so i guess its whatever works best for the situation your in.
but i do love what i do, and i am starting to learn code. so i can see where they are coming from. i am grossly underpaid now, but there is *NO* market for linux network/system admins where i am. let alone in a *windows free* enviroment.
PITA part is i have a job offer in houston (im in upstate NY as it is) and am really contemplating moving. but i am nervous cause i dont wanna move and then get dumped in 6 months.
People who know one thing think they know it all. Just because you have root doesn't mean you deserve it.
this comment by itself is true.
about you.
by this comment "If you are a good/excellent admin you don't worry about messing up a production machine through coding or application specific blunders."
you show that you have NO FSCKING idea what a production enviroment is really like. were not talking your personal webserver you dipshit. were talking systems that require *as in your job depends on it* five nines. period. end of discusion. if you wanna test development code/ideas on a production system you need help, and a luser account. because you sure as hell are not a real admin.
yeah microsoft campus water is dilluted. this tricks you into thinking its better , but instead of making you just a little sick..... it slowly makes you dumber.
If you cannot script in the shell (and possibly perl or expect/tcl), if you do not know how a compiler and make works, you are possibly a competent network/hardware jockey, but you are not a good *nix admin and will never be one.
thats your opinion bud. not a fact, and in my opinion your wrong.
and i dont give a good goddamn if some java jockey thinks java is code or not. because it is called a SCRIPTING language for a reason.
Finally,if you read the want ads for *nix administrators there are vanishingly few descriptions that want someone without scripting knowledge, for excellent reason.
and if you would read my goddamn post you would have known that i clearly stated *you do not need to know code to be a good admin, and you rarely need to know scripting. * and in case you forget what rare means --
" seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON "
and if you are a half shit admin you should not have to fuck with the production boxes very often. hence scripting is an "UNCOMMON" occurence.
set it up - let it run. if it breaks fix it. if not DONT REINVENT THE WHEEL.
i would say alot of people are, some don't even know it. (i work on a hell desk {outsourced} for one of the aforementioned three letter companies and we get people asking for help with our workgroup servers not even knowing they are running linux)
linux has inroads onto big iron and for now thats all they need. with IBM, oracle etc backing them they will end up with a good percentage of boxes.
you have to remember in the past year and a half not to many people have been buying stuff for infrastructure, and in the last year and a half linux has gained alot of ground in GPK about it.
personally i think it should be done by the best person for the job (ie the best damn coder). weather he is from south africa , germany or the US i dont give to damn's.
HOWEVER , i dont think money should be factored into the equation. it should be done by the people who have the best capacity to do it.
but another thing - the HB1 visa program NEEDS to go away, FAR FAR away. i know way to many americans who are unemployed. we do need to work at creating/keeping more jobs here. and american companies are too goddamn focused on $$$ to worry about that.
the way i see it is simple - these companies are more focused on "cutting" costs than they are at keeping jobs.
perl,/bin/sh and the like are NOT code. they are scripting langauges.
C is code
assembler is code
BINARY is code
despite what you think you do not need to know code to be a good admin, and you rarely need to know scripting.
a good admin will not try to reinvent the wheel. he will use someone else's. and possibly (time and skill permitting) improve on it, or modify it as neccasary.
i have been to india, hell i work for an outsourcing company who has offices in both the US and india.
lemme tell you guys something -- you DO NOT wanna move to india, bad water, bad food, bad pay. not to mention (depending on the part you go to) pakistan always right over your shoulder. NOT a pretty picture.
i have on the other hand been thinking about moving to europe, a small non EU country.....
so IBM offering to put a custom made version of linux onto all of their heavy metal dont mean much eh ? or the fact that there are/were grumbles at IBM about bropping AIX ?
and i dont think to mant people on slashdot wanna go work in or for the gov't. most people here want jobs for people they can talk to about problems, not wait for the next "national budget".
oh and belive it or not porting stuff from a *nix to linux is NOT that hard. plus most of the afforementioned companies will actually help you port the apps, so long has you keep their hardware. (or if your big enough actually keep the contract)
Actually if you think about it most of the major companies who support linux have their own OS, IBM has AIX , HP has HP-UX.... they are all Unix based OS's that are meant to run heavy metal.
HOWEVER, Sun has contributed many many things to the open source community such has Grid Engine (clustering software) and has also funded alot of development in the gnome community.
i will say they were a little late to the ball game, but that shouldnt detract from the positive contributions they have given to the community.
can the internet economy help the local economy ? nope, at least not in its current state.
now there maybe a side effect - people finding it cheaper in stores. (the extra 8% online plus shipping might even out the cost) but again your just killing online commerce by doing that. and not really helping out the local economy either.
i think somebody has the idea that the pr0n sales online are actual "commerce" transactions. *whoops*
nagios.org is the home page for nagios. to qoute from the cover page :
" Nagios® is a host and service monitor designed to inform you of network problems before your clients, end-users or managers do. It has been designed to run under the Linux operating system , but works fine under most *NIX variants as well. The monitoring daemon runs intermittent checks on hosts and services you specify using external "plugins" which return status information to Nagios. When problems are encountered, the daemon can send notifications out to administrative contacts in a variety of different ways (email, instant message, SMS, etc.). Current status information, historical logs, and reports can all be accessed via a web browser.
Features
* Monitoring of network services (SMTP, POP3, HTTP, NNTP, PING, etc.)
* Monitoring of host resources (processor load, disk and memory usage, running processes, log files, etc.)
* Simple plugin design that allows users to easily develop their own host and service checks
* Ability to define network host hierarchy, allowing detection of and distinction between hosts that are down and those that are unreachable
* Contact notifications when service or host problems occur and get resolved (via email, pager, or other user-defined method)
* Optional escalation of host and service notifications to different contact groups
* Ability to define event handlers to be run during service or host events for proactive problem resolution
* Support for implementing redundant and distributed monitoring servers
* External command interface that allows on-the-fly modifications to be made to the monitoring and notification behavior through the use of event handlers, the web interface, and third-party applications
* Retention of host and service status across program restarts
* Scheduled downtime for supressing host and service notifications during periods of planned outages
* Ability to acknowlege problems via the web interface
* Web interface for viewing current network status, notification and problem history, log file, etc.
* Simple authorization scheme that allows you restrict what users can see and do from the web interface
Click Here For More Screenshots
License
Nagios® is licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License Version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation . This gives you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify Nagios under certain conditions. Read the 'LICENSE' file in the Nagios distribution or read the online version of the license for more details. Nagios is provided AS IS with NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF DESIGN, MERCHANTABILITY, AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. "
Why, the aisle will fill with products to fix the deficiencies in Linux. It already exists in virtual form in sites like freshmeat or linux.org.
not really, instead we will go to freshmeat and sourceforge etc and get the fix for free. (thus the isle will be empty) and that was the parent posts point. linux changes bussiness's plans. no more need for 80 gagillion file system cleaning utils, or program uninstallers or system monitoring tools , or the like. they are already out there and are free and work great. hell symantec (as pointed out by someone else) was using Nagios to monitor some stuff. (could be seen on the screen.) and guess what ? its OSS. HERE !
granted some mindless retail whores will go any buy norton works for linux. even if it is just lm-sensors , top, fsck etc in a box. but thats not my problem.
you want the people who gaffed up and allowed 9-11 to happen to have access to your network ? good for you. stay the hell away from mine !
i do not want any gov't people/personal or even private companies that i dont have a damn contract with to watch, sniff, fart at or even breathe on my network.
and yeah that brings me to another thing - if i want somebody to protect me i will HIRE them. i dont want some damn over zealous body gaurd (whom i didnt hire) following me all day. and i dont want some nosey ass postal worker wanna-be watching my network.
and if you think they wont use the data they collect to keep an eye on you.... well your high.
you dont see an FBI agent at EVERY bank do you >? nope. why is this any different ? the gov't should focus on securing there own sh!t before they worry about mine.
but thats not true, it has its flaws - but the point is that even in the worst case the flaws are fix(ed)able. and usually within a few days.
however windows has a history of taking MONTHS to patch holes. and their holes are a hell of alot easier to exploit.
i do not care if some lazy dipshnnnt doesnt turn of sendmail (spam) or make sure he is running an updated version of ssh or apache. couldnt care less. what i do care about is that *I* can update it. and *I* can turn it off. and that *I* dont have to sign some EULA saying i have to give up my soul for a patch that shouldn't even require a EULA !
Slashdot Mirror
really ? .... taken from imdb.com :
..... but they did.
americas sweetharts
full frontal
flop
flop
oh and i dont want to point ouot that the highest selling girl band of all time TLC actually went bankrupt or anything
as much as i hate pop music if someone sells 5 million records they made the industry what 60 million ? minimum ?
they see what out of that ?
advertising and shit should be dictated by simple economics if you advertise it and it sells keep doing it, if not change your marketing technique. but does the riaa do this ? NOPE ! they keep on trying to "market" style and all this BS instead of the actual product because their product friggin blows and they know it.
oh and did they take 5 mil away from Ms roberts for advertising and stage time ? dont think so.
actually i thought i learned about artists by reading people's reviews/recomendations on amazon.com and then downloading stuff from limewire.
but then again i shouldnt matter since 95% of the stuff i listen too is indy, and 100% of the stuff i pay for is indy.
and its funny how the mpaa can bay julia roberts 20mil per flick regardless of weather its a hit or not but some how alot of the highest selling musicians of all time are broke because they done get paid jack sh!t.
like i said ... you test development code on a development box. call it a petri dish, sandbox or whatever its all the same -- its a testing box.
i agree with what you just said. but i do not agree with your POV on the code/scripting thing. not like it matters too me, im good at my job and i never have problems with any of the stuff i do. (i even admin off to the side part time as well.) so i guess its whatever works best for the situation your in.
*is not a coder*
but i do love what i do, and i am starting to learn code. so i can see where they are coming from. i am grossly underpaid now, but there is *NO* market for linux network/system admins where i am. let alone in a *windows free* enviroment.
PITA part is i have a job offer in houston (im in upstate NY as it is) and am really contemplating moving. but i am nervous cause i dont wanna move and then get dumped in 6 months.
People who know one thing think they know it all. Just because you have root doesn't mean you deserve it. this comment by itself is true.
about you.
by this comment "If you are a good/excellent admin you don't worry about messing up a production machine through coding or application specific blunders."
you show that you have NO FSCKING idea what a production enviroment is really like. were not talking your personal webserver you dipshit. were talking systems that require *as in your job depends on it* five nines. period. end of discusion. if you wanna test development code/ideas on a production system you need help, and a luser account. because you sure as hell are not a real admin.
yeah microsoft campus water is dilluted. this tricks you into thinking its better , but instead of making you just a little sick..... it slowly makes you dumber.
;-)
your welcome for the input ~!~
If you cannot script in the shell (and possibly perl or expect/tcl), if you do not know how a compiler and make works, you are possibly a competent network/hardware jockey, but you are not a good *nix admin and will never be one.
thats your opinion bud. not a fact, and in my opinion your wrong.
and i dont give a good goddamn if some java jockey thinks java is code or not. because it is called a SCRIPTING language for a reason.
Finally,if you read the want ads for *nix administrators there are vanishingly few descriptions that want someone without scripting knowledge, for excellent reason.
and if you would read my goddamn post you would have known that i clearly stated *you do not need to know code to be a good admin, and you rarely need to know scripting. * and in case you forget what rare means --
" seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON "
and if you are a half shit admin you should not have to fuck with the production boxes very often. hence scripting is an "UNCOMMON" occurence.
set it up - let it run. if it breaks fix it. if not DONT REINVENT THE WHEEL.
i didnt say everybody was/is running linux.
i would say alot of people are, some don't even know it. (i work on a hell desk {outsourced} for one of the aforementioned three letter companies and we get people asking for help with our workgroup servers not even knowing they are running linux)
linux has inroads onto big iron and for now thats all they need. with IBM, oracle etc backing them they will end up with a good percentage of boxes.
you have to remember in the past year and a half not to many people have been buying stuff for infrastructure, and in the last year and a half linux has gained alot of ground in GPK about it.
only 200 ? hell of alot better than the 4000 we get around here .....
.sig
thanks for the advice.
and i like the
personally i think it should be done by the best person for the job (ie the best damn coder). weather he is from south africa , germany or the US i dont give to damn's.
HOWEVER , i dont think money should be factored into the equation. it should be done by the people who have the best capacity to do it.
but another thing - the HB1 visa program NEEDS to go away, FAR FAR away. i know way to many americans who are unemployed. we do need to work at creating/keeping more jobs here. and american companies are too goddamn focused on $$$ to worry about that.
the way i see it is simple - these companies are more focused on "cutting" costs than they are at keeping jobs.
brown people funny i thought we moved onto yellow people ?
code ?
/bin/sh and the like are NOT code. they are scripting langauges.
or scripting ?
perl,
C is code
assembler is code
BINARY is code
despite what you think you do not need to know code to be a good admin, and you rarely need to know scripting.
a good admin will not try to reinvent the wheel. he will use someone else's. and possibly (time and skill permitting) improve on it, or modify it as neccasary.
amen to that shit EH !
i have been to india, hell i work for an outsourcing company who has offices in both the US and india.
.....
lemme tell you guys something -- you DO NOT wanna move to india, bad water, bad food, bad pay. not to mention (depending on the part you go to) pakistan always right over your shoulder. NOT a pretty picture.
i have on the other hand been thinking about moving to europe, a small non EU country
millions of dollars worth of IBM equipment eh ?
so IBM offering to put a custom made version of linux onto all of their heavy metal dont mean much eh ? or the fact that there are/were grumbles at IBM about bropping AIX ?
and i dont think to mant people on slashdot wanna go work in or for the gov't. most people here want jobs for people they can talk to about problems, not wait for the next "national budget".
oh and belive it or not porting stuff from a *nix to linux is NOT that hard. plus most of the afforementioned companies will actually help you port the apps, so long has you keep their hardware. (or if your big enough actually keep the contract)
actually i would have said gobbles is the marilyn manson of the security world. he is alot more imature than nsync.
Actually if you think about it most of the major companies who support linux have their own OS, IBM has AIX , HP has HP-UX .... they are all Unix based OS's that are meant to run heavy metal.
HOWEVER, Sun has contributed many many things to the open source community such has Grid Engine (clustering software) and has also funded alot of development in the gnome community.
i will say they were a little late to the ball game, but that shouldnt detract from the positive contributions they have given to the community.
can the internet economy help the local economy ? nope, at least not in its current state.
now there maybe a side effect - people finding it cheaper in stores. (the extra 8% online plus shipping might even out the cost) but again your just killing online commerce by doing that. and not really helping out the local economy either.
i think somebody has the idea that the pr0n sales online are actual "commerce" transactions. *whoops*
nagios.org is the home page for nagios. to qoute from the cover page :
" Nagios® is a host and service monitor designed to inform you of network problems before your clients, end-users or managers do. It has been designed to run under the Linux operating system , but works fine under most *NIX variants as well. The monitoring daemon runs intermittent checks on hosts and services you specify using external "plugins" which return status information to Nagios. When problems are encountered, the daemon can send notifications out to administrative contacts in a variety of different ways (email, instant message, SMS, etc.). Current status information, historical logs, and reports can all be accessed via a web browser. Features * Monitoring of network services (SMTP, POP3, HTTP, NNTP, PING, etc.) * Monitoring of host resources (processor load, disk and memory usage, running processes, log files, etc.) * Simple plugin design that allows users to easily develop their own host and service checks * Ability to define network host hierarchy, allowing detection of and distinction between hosts that are down and those that are unreachable * Contact notifications when service or host problems occur and get resolved (via email, pager, or other user-defined method) * Optional escalation of host and service notifications to different contact groups * Ability to define event handlers to be run during service or host events for proactive problem resolution * Support for implementing redundant and distributed monitoring servers * External command interface that allows on-the-fly modifications to be made to the monitoring and notification behavior through the use of event handlers, the web interface, and third-party applications * Retention of host and service status across program restarts * Scheduled downtime for supressing host and service notifications during periods of planned outages * Ability to acknowlege problems via the web interface * Web interface for viewing current network status, notification and problem history, log file, etc. * Simple authorization scheme that allows you restrict what users can see and do from the web interface Click Here For More Screenshots License Nagios® is licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License Version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation . This gives you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify Nagios under certain conditions. Read the 'LICENSE' file in the Nagios distribution or read the online version of the license for more details. Nagios is provided AS IS with NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF DESIGN, MERCHANTABILITY, AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. "
basically it kicks major but.
willingness to be a nobody in a corporate (perti dish ?) culture.
...... (boring ass ah!t lemme tell you...)
and the willingness to stare at log files ALL DAY LONG
Why, the aisle will fill with products to fix the deficiencies in Linux. It already exists in virtual form in sites like freshmeat or linux.org.
not really, instead we will go to freshmeat and sourceforge etc and get the fix for free. (thus the isle will be empty) and that was the parent posts point. linux changes bussiness's plans. no more need for 80 gagillion file system cleaning utils, or program uninstallers or system monitoring tools , or the like. they are already out there and are free and work great. hell symantec (as pointed out by someone else) was using Nagios to monitor some stuff. (could be seen on the screen.) and guess what ? its OSS. HERE !
granted some mindless retail whores will go any buy norton works for linux. even if it is just lm-sensors , top, fsck etc in a box. but thats not my problem.
yeah it is scary.
.... well your high.
you want the people who gaffed up and allowed 9-11 to happen to have access to your network ? good for you. stay the hell away from mine !
i do not want any gov't people/personal or even private companies that i dont have a damn contract with to watch, sniff, fart at or even breathe on my network.
and yeah that brings me to another thing - if i want somebody to protect me i will HIRE them. i dont want some damn over zealous body gaurd (whom i didnt hire) following me all day. and i dont want some nosey ass postal worker wanna-be watching my network.
and if you think they wont use the data they collect to keep an eye on you
you dont see an FBI agent at EVERY bank do you >? nope. why is this any different ? the gov't should focus on securing there own sh!t before they worry about mine.
of course it would be helpful if i linked it right ... now wouldnt it.
better ?
must remember http:// DOH !!
and for those that are not familiar you can find nagios here
this is one kick major ass tool. (it used to be known as Netsaint FYI)
*** you do not need to mod me up. i just figured i would point that out.***
noobs tend to belive linux is perfect.
but thats not true, it has its flaws - but the point is that even in the worst case the flaws are fix(ed)able. and usually within a few days.
however windows has a history of taking MONTHS to patch holes. and their holes are a hell of alot easier to exploit.
i do not care if some lazy dipshnnnt doesnt turn of sendmail (spam) or make sure he is running an updated version of ssh or apache. couldnt care less. what i do care about is that *I* can update it. and *I* can turn it off. and that *I* dont have to sign some EULA saying i have to give up my soul for a patch that shouldn't even require a EULA !