dont bother arguing with X, he is a hopeless globablist. and he seems to think americans suck at their jobs. or that for some reason some MCSE bootcamp graduate over in india always does it better.....
what is rather amusing is that Sun started doing this three years ago -and i do outsourcing work for them - and now they are losing money hand over fist because of bad management and lack of technical skill, management sent the jobs to india and the india techs suck.
" GNP = The total market value of all the goods and services produced by a nation during a specified period.
GDP = GDP The total market value of all the goods and services produced within the borders of a nation during a specified period.
You do realize this is wrong, right? GNP is produced by the nationals of that country, and that is what I intended when I used it. Everybody in the US. The way you are using GNP, you mean GDP. Which is what is produced inside the borders, regardless of what passport they hold."
no, the definition is correct, see american heritage dictionary and websters. i mean GNP like as in the TOTAL gross product of this country, not GDP as in the gross NATIONAL/LOCAL production of this country.
hell why dont you go back and read the damn article it says the same damn thing i am saying.
and again i have seen the world, its a nice place. but i live HERE so i am concerned with HERE. just like i will be concerned with europe when i move this summer.
this is the last response i am going to bother firing back to you. cause i am sick and tired of YOUR backassward logic.
food might be cheaper and rent might be cheaper, but the american goods being sold aren't. the $1000 HP computer still costs the same (if not more). this is why it wont help the US economy which is EXACTLY what i have been saying. you are nuts if you think somebody who makes 1/3rd what we do (we'll say 8k per year) can afford the luxuries we do. you forget how the economic structure is in this country and why people can afford what they do, they dont pay 25k cash for a car, they pay $450/month for it. and exactly how an indian can afford $450/month when he is only making $650/month is beyong me.
i know nothing of the world ? i have been to europe, asia and south america. where have YOU been ? what have YOU done.
my point all along has been really simple Americans generate the American economy, nobody else has the GNP to support something this large. if you subtract from us to add to someone else fine, explain to me how this helps the US ? explain to me why WE should be losing our jobs and our economy to help other countries ? because despite what you seem to think they wouldnt help us.
and actually its not hb-1 or h1-b its H-1B, so if you are going to try and correct me PLEASE do some friggin research first. its funny you think i dont know about something cause i mis-typed a name.
AFRICA ? why don't you move your wannabe saint ass to africa and drop me a line in a few years. because quite frankly you seem to know so much maybe you could help with the education program over there.
you say you hate people who think america is the "best country in the world" but you then say it has the highest quality of life, WHICH IS WHAT MAKES IT THE BEST YOU TWIT !!!
its funny that you say "Well, you have just proven you don't know anything about economics. We now use GDP, not GNP. You are not qualified to argue about economical issues; just admit that you do not know enough about economics to continue to argue." because you were the asshole who brought up the GNP to start with. and when i am reffering to the GNP i am going to say GNP. when i am talking about the GDP i will say GDP. americans still account for more than 2/3rds of the GNP, and obviously ALL of the GDP. you moron.
GNP = The total market value of all the goods and services produced by a nation during a specified period.
GDP = GDP The total market value of all the goods and services produced within the borders of a nation during a specified period.
you again fail to understand the point or explain how the hell someone who makes 1/3rd what we do can afford what we do.
SIMPLE ECONOMICS YOU MAKE 5/HR YOU SPEND 5/HR. you dont make 5 and spend 15 you ignorant asshole. this is the point, the companies can turn out as many goddamn projects as they want no indian making 4-8/hr can afford to drop 1K on a new computer, this will decrease the market because the people they are hiring DONT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY THE PRODUCT !!!!!
if they get paid the same fine, but they dont. PERIOD !
if china has the same GNP has us they STILL wont account for as much "spending" (on luxury items, like computers, cars etc..) because the GNP per person won't be anywhere near as high as it is here. which means less HP and Sun and IBM shit being sold, which means more jobs go BYE BYE.
you would think someone as big headed as you would understand logic.
and your goddamn right i think HB-1 is bullshit, but i shouldnt have said the people using it are jackasses i should have said the EMPLOYERS using it are jackasses.
what job gets over 500 applicants ? how about anything in NYC, Silicon valley and around seattle. you think i am joking ? pick a decent job out in SF, or NYC from monster, and call up the person taking applications, ask them how many applications they have gotten for the job. I have a friend who is a head hunter in NY the amount of offers is sick. hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs since january 1st. and lets not forget the job market wasnt exactly great last year.
oh and by the way if im racist for disliking people coming here and taking jobs that should be hired for locally YOUR racist for hating america which you obviously do, and no despite what you seem to think im not a flag waving asshole i want out of this country and i am planning on leaving this summer for the simple reason of OUR ECONOMY IS GOING TO SHIT !
and BTW please explain how flipping burgers supports 2 kids a wife mortgage car payment et all ? i am REALLY dying to hear this......
here you go again, making assanine assumptions. i am not racist, i am however pro-american and because i live here, and i do not want the quality of life here to go down. you seem to think that working hard will find you a job, bullshit. right now people in the tech sector get anywhere from 50 - 50,000 applications per job opening, do the math. some people are fools they think they are entitled to a BMW and a condo on the beach, screw them. im talking about average joe with 2.2 kids and a mortgage. those are the people i worry about.
your attitude is appaling you somehow seem to think you are above all of this. its going to be funny if this trend continues, cause you will be out of a job as well. and it wont be for a "3 month" period either.
another thing you dont get is everything i said is *if* this trend continues. if EVERY low end IT job (READ: not management) goes overseas.
and i do not care if people (black, white, brown, or yellow) immagrate to the US. because that will help us. i WANT them to move here. not train here and go back to india. that HURTS the US.
and im going to say this one last time and take the chance that this might permiate your thick ass skull..... A: sending jobs overseas by reducing local employment reduces a companies market B: thereby reducing their profits. C: thereby reducing there workforce. D: GOTO A.
you seem to think that by a company paying someone a shit-load less than what they are worth will in some way help our economy but you forget that paying someone 4/hr or even 7/hr doesn't allow them to spend alot of money - if any at all - on american products. THAT is basic economics. plus this might be good for other countries in 5 years but you know what ? it isn't going to be good for the US because all of the US companies will be going out of bussiness.
oh and BTW people who have worked for the large majority of their life to get into a good position in the IT industry cannot afford to start over, and they shouldnt have to. somebody who is 35 years old and has a masters and two kids and a wife et all shouldnt be forced out of the industry. period.
if you wish to reply to what i said make sure you take what i said in context instead of assuming bullshit.
Now when the hell did i say i went to school ? what debt ? i have zero debt, and do not have a degree. its because I know my shit I have a job.
you asked WHY american companies should hire american employees, simple dickwad WE ARE THE ONES WHO BUY THEIR PRODUCT ! not some indian or malasian making 4/hr, they can't afford what american companies charge.... which leads into the next nice little tidbit - if all the americans become unemployed who the hell is buying the procuct ? people over in india are not buying stuff like americans do, and they wont for the next 20 years, in the meantime ? im supposed to watch these bloated "world thinkers" shit the economy away ? get a grip ! screw 20 years from now, what about now ? what if 60 million americans end up un-employed because of this crap ? then what ? feel chipper because the guy in india drives a toyota ? FSCK THAT !
why dont you do me a favor and ASK somebody in india if they give a good goddamn about our economy ? or if OUR children are starving ? you know what he will say ? no, because his kids are fine.
i hate it when you bleeding hearts think we need to give everything away because you feel guilty or some crap. i like my loft, i like my job, i like my car. do i need all of it ? no, but why do i need to sacrifice for someone in india ? you feel so great for this cause then you do me a favor, "sacrifice" for both of us.
and about your holier than thou cruft at the end of your post.... i chose this industry because i love computers, not the paycheck - and you are not the only person who has had to take a paycut in the past few years. but thats not the end of the world. being unemployed for 5 years or longer is. and i have seen it first hand. its not a pretty picture. i understand economics i understand that quite a few people i know who are damn good at what they do can't get a job because some jackass came over on an HB-1 to train for 1/5th what they CAN take.
what you dont seem to grasp is simple, most people make what they do because they can, but some of us make what we do because we have to. because internet access is a job requirement, as is a computer, and transportation and none of this shit is cheap in the good old USA so where my apartment might cost 150/month in india it costs 650/month here. not much anybody can do about that, short of freezing to death sleeping on a park bench in "protest".
First off X your missing the real point of the whole outsourcing thing. americans are losing jobs, here and now. and if we dont have jobs we dont buy products.... this would also be what most people call the "current state of affairs". and another thing, domestic spending accounts for 2/3's of the money involved in our economy. so singapore, japan, india, et all dont total HALF what we do in terms of spending. and i do not see that changing.
second off companies that outsource to india or whereever do not get better production per employee. they hire two people for each one in the US. and save a little because for the 30k/year i make they make 12k/year. so wow they save 2k/year. and piss off all employees who *think* or *assume* their job is the next to be "relocated". (oh and in case you hadn't already guessed i happen to work for an outsourcing company who has offices in both india and the US). this whole cycle will not help americans it will help other counties and rich old white americans. this does not help our economy.
oh and another thing, the people in india that make 12k/year do not have anywhere near the quality of life we do. and they might not for another 10 - 20 years. (this comes from experience) they are essentially a third world country, bad water supply and famine in some parts of the country among other things. but of course you like so many other people in this damn thread think americans should "lower" our living standard and hence lower our cost of living. right, you move to some third world country.... see if you can dig up some bandwidth so you can post to slashdot, and complain of hunger.
and no i do not support "fat cat" living. the dot-bomb era was a frigging joke. no web designer should make over 35k. not a single one. but at the same time a guy who is a programmer (a good one.) shouldnt be making 25k when people who rely on his production make 5 - 10 times that. i have no issue outsourcing tech support and other low level jobs. but good jobs should stay here if the company wants to sell here. period.
if someone is a memeber of a "faith" (i am agnostic and hence i have no faith, good or bad.) and they are found to be "sinning" in many many parts of the world they would be "purged" of their sins by being beaten, raped etc....
and do not be mistaken this takes place in the USA, western Europe etc.... surely not as often as in the old days, but it still happens. (as an aside/example: all of these children who have been abused by catholic priests will more likely than not cause harm to someone else. or suffer mental issues in dealing with what was done to them.)
the parent of this thread is exactly whats wrong with alot of things surrounding sex. one should not feel "dirty" or "shamed" when you do something, and if you do it is most likely your parents/gaurdians fault than your own. they more likely than not raised you to belive that if you actually liked sex you were immoral, or if you jerked off you would go blind etc....
anyone who is a member of the "moral moronity" known has organized religion need not comment.
this type of system promotes intolerance. and should not be used for a damn thing. it is actually one of the worst things that could be done in this type of situation, if you wanna break out the "plastic man", or do the "five knuckle shuffle" while looking at pr0n so be it.... it is what it is and no more, some people would have you belive that what i just said was a "sin" but since we were created in "gods image" and AFAIK the "good book" doesn't say anything about a wife you can bet your ass he can "shuffle" with the best ! the man probably owns jenna jamison's entire collection !
take that you haughty taughty @#$%!@%$ !!
(most of the above was a joke, if it offends you please reply so i can offend you more !)
i meant smear (if im wrong sue me, you get the idea.)as in the ads netzero runs with AOL et all being ripped for being too expensive...... but to continue with my point.....
was bandwidth not stolen ? cause if it wasnt "stolen" by some virus then what caused the spike in traffic ? the bandwidth fairy ? call it what you want, the bandwidth went *somewhere*, or to be more specific it was used by *something*. and that was my point. if it gets used the person who is paying for it foots the bill. unless its the ISP's fault as i stated. the ISP is not a damn insurance company. and the ISP was not said to be at fault, plus as i stated they are not supposed to be blocking traffic unless stated in a contract. if the contract says "block bad things" then this convo is moot.
i do not assume that having a small website wont generate mucho traffic... i know it wont. and i run on the 24.x.x.x network of road runner which is notoriously noisy with virus's and worms. of course i also wouldnt buy a "burstable" connection for the exact reason we are discussing.
would the ISP be better of waiving the fees ? probably. they would be one hell of alot better off to offer tiered "speed" based connections instead of by the GB/month or whatever this guy is getting billed for, no argument there.
but its not who would benifit the most from paying. its who's responsability it is. and in my mind if this happens most ISP's will waive the bill as you stated. and should point out the benefit of switching to a "speed" (ie 1Mb down 1Mb up) based connection. if the customer doesnt want to listen its his own damn fault.
and yes i was good at retail management, but i also didnt let my employees (commision based) get hosed because some jagoff decided he needs to make $60 by returning a brick. why ? because if i let him return the brick it makes it harder to return a broken item for someone else. major retailers dont like major loses, and when you keep getting "bricks" higher ups start watching over your shoulder, and then every little friggin thing becomes a mountain.....
i agree with what your saying to a DEGREE. the store doesnt have to pay the fine if people are chilling outside trying to get in, but likewise neither does the mall.
the point is that you control your flow of traffic, dont run pr0n and you wont get crushed, and dont host with a company who's network is still riddled with code red, nimda, slammer and the like. it is up to the consumer to make a decision. like i said before having a server is not a need its a want. you dont like the type of bill your getting ? change hosting companies, just like a store that is constantly fined for being overcrowded.... they would change to a larger store.
plus if ISP's foot the bill for something thats not their fault then all of a sudden the majority of small to midsized ISP's go belly up and we have a monopoly in service providers. then they can charge you even more.... bandwidth doesnt grow on trees, it costs money even large ISP's are paying someone something for the privledge of having those lines connected to the net/other ISP's.
furthermore their is no way an ISP should just start blocking people because of unwanted traffic. your public facing servers are subject to the same whims that your public facing store is Not quite. As a store owner you have protection via insurance, if your store is bombarded with rocks taking out every window in the place your insurance should cover it.
yes insurance would cover the PHYSICAL damage. if mcdonalds takes out a smear campaign against BK and BK loses and estimated 10 billion insurance wont cover that. there is no "physical damage" done to systems. and insurance in case of over bandwidth use due to crackers is like insurance to cover excessive gas use due to someone siphoning the gas out of your tank, fat chance in hell that will EVER happen.
Another point is hours of access, web servers are on 24/7 whereas most stores are open at specific times. You can stop theft by closing your doors at 2am. You can't stop web traffic so easily
right, which is the advantage of having a web precance. since having a web server or email server is OPTIONAL and VOLUNTARY noone said that they have to keep it. if its that much of a burden move on. or find a different way to make money.
Yes, but they have the right to do that if they wanted. In fact too many people in the store would get them fined by the FD and I doubt they would want that, there are maximum occupancy limits on buildings. If an extra 50 people rushed the building and they were over capacity who's going to pay the fine?
first of retail stores break capacity almost EVERYDAY during the holidays, and rarely get fined. (i know this because i was retail management during the economic upswing. and we got fined once, and that was because of a fight that got the cops called.... and so on.) but just to play on your point if circuit city is renting the space from a mall, does the mall get fined ? or does circuit city get fined ? circuit city does because it is their problem. they are responsible for the people coming into and going out of their store, even though they dont own the roads leading to the store or the parking lot around it. its a privledge to operate on the net. and in a retail space. its not the ISP's job to bow down to you. you dont like it ? vote with your wallet.
that doesnt matter. the firewall blocks stuff once it reaches his network, therefor still taking up bandwidth.
the only way this is the ISP's fault is if the traffic is coming frmo another one of their machines, or a hosted machine. it is their responsability to maintain their network. nothing more. and if some box in china starts bombing your pipe its not their fault unless they said they would put a firewall/router up to block incoming traffic BEFORE it hits your pipe. which nobody does.
furthermore their is no way an ISP should just start blocking people because of unwanted traffic. your public facing servers are subject to the same whims that your public facing store is. and when i was at circuit city on black friday i do not recall them saying "we are out of stock go away" or "we have too many people in here. go away".
i wont even get into what ISP's playing god would lead to.....
1. ISP's randomly block stuff.
2. Backbone providers block stuff. (other backbone segments.)
3. Countries start blocking stuff. (china==USA ?)
4. you get charged EXTRA to have access to the "unfiltered internet"
however you can do a mucchhhhhh better job than M$ is doing. the idea of *security via obscurity* is whats wrong with them. hiding the bugs doesnt fix them, or make them any less likely to be exploited.
yes i agree, to a certain degree. floppies come in handy for small files. but i can't fit even one mp3 onto a floppy. or most common stuff i use for that matter.
however since i do run my firewall of a floppy drive and nothing else.... they definetly serve a purpose.
i dont see why not. all you would need is a computer, a cooler and some fuel cells. set up the cooler to hold the hard drive, mobo/proc, dremel some holes for the cable running to keyboard etc. hell you could even get a little 12 inch LCD and mount it on a hinge on the top, cut out a spot for it to fold down into the top (face down of course.).
hell i have seen minifridge-pc's why not a cooler ? the only real issue is getting the batteries to somehow power everything. which cant be that hard since i have seen people do that as well.
i happen to have knocked out some poor guys front four teeth with my helmet back in high school.... so the "most part" should be "least part" if they are a typical blader they will wear all sorts of plastic/metal protective gear.
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dont bother arguing with X, he is a hopeless globablist. and he seems to think americans suck at their jobs. or that for some reason some MCSE bootcamp graduate over in india always does it better.....
what is rather amusing is that Sun started doing this three years ago -and i do outsourcing work for them - and now they are losing money hand over fist because of bad management and lack of technical skill, management sent the jobs to india and the india techs suck.
" GNP = The total market value of all the goods and services produced by a nation during a specified period. GDP = GDP The total market value of all the goods and services produced within the borders of a nation during a specified period. You do realize this is wrong, right? GNP is produced by the nationals of that country, and that is what I intended when I used it. Everybody in the US. The way you are using GNP, you mean GDP. Which is what is produced inside the borders, regardless of what passport they hold."
no, the definition is correct, see american heritage dictionary and websters. i mean GNP like as in the TOTAL gross product of this country, not GDP as in the gross NATIONAL/LOCAL production of this country.
hell why dont you go back and read the damn article it says the same damn thing i am saying.
and again i have seen the world, its a nice place. but i live HERE so i am concerned with HERE. just like i will be concerned with europe when i move this summer.
this is the last response i am going to bother firing back to you. cause i am sick and tired of YOUR backassward logic.
food might be cheaper and rent might be cheaper, but the american goods being sold aren't. the $1000 HP computer still costs the same (if not more). this is why it wont help the US economy which is EXACTLY what i have been saying. you are nuts if you think somebody who makes 1/3rd what we do (we'll say 8k per year) can afford the luxuries we do. you forget how the economic structure is in this country and why people can afford what they do, they dont pay 25k cash for a car, they pay $450/month for it. and exactly how an indian can afford $450/month when he is only making $650/month is beyong me.
i know nothing of the world ? i have been to europe, asia and south america. where have YOU been ? what have YOU done.
my point all along has been really simple Americans generate the American economy, nobody else has the GNP to support something this large. if you subtract from us to add to someone else fine, explain to me how this helps the US ? explain to me why WE should be losing our jobs and our economy to help other countries ? because despite what you seem to think they wouldnt help us.
and actually its not hb-1 or h1-b its H-1B, so if you are going to try and correct me PLEASE do some friggin research first. its funny you think i dont know about something cause i mis-typed a name.
AFRICA ? why don't you move your wannabe saint ass to africa and drop me a line in a few years. because quite frankly you seem to know so much maybe you could help with the education program over there.
you say you hate people who think america is the "best country in the world" but you then say it has the highest quality of life, WHICH IS WHAT MAKES IT THE BEST YOU TWIT !!!
its funny that you say "Well, you have just proven you don't know anything about economics. We now use GDP, not GNP. You are not qualified to argue about economical issues; just admit that you do not know enough about economics to continue to argue." because you were the asshole who brought up the GNP to start with. and when i am reffering to the GNP i am going to say GNP. when i am talking about the GDP i will say GDP. americans still account for more than 2/3rds of the GNP, and obviously ALL of the GDP. you moron.
GNP = The total market value of all the goods and services produced by a nation during a specified period.
GDP = GDP The total market value of all the goods and services produced within the borders of a nation during a specified period.
so perhaps that will help clarify things for you.
you again fail to understand the point or explain how the hell someone who makes 1/3rd what we do can afford what we do.
......
SIMPLE ECONOMICS YOU MAKE 5/HR YOU SPEND 5/HR. you dont make 5 and spend 15 you ignorant asshole. this is the point, the companies can turn out as many goddamn projects as they want no indian making 4-8/hr can afford to drop 1K on a new computer, this will decrease the market because the people they are hiring DONT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY THE PRODUCT !!!!!
if they get paid the same fine, but they dont. PERIOD !
if china has the same GNP has us they STILL wont account for as much "spending" (on luxury items, like computers, cars etc..) because the GNP per person won't be anywhere near as high as it is here. which means less HP and Sun and IBM shit being sold, which means more jobs go BYE BYE.
you would think someone as big headed as you would understand logic.
and your goddamn right i think HB-1 is bullshit, but i shouldnt have said the people using it are jackasses i should have said the EMPLOYERS using it are jackasses.
what job gets over 500 applicants ? how about anything in NYC, Silicon valley and around seattle. you think i am joking ? pick a decent job out in SF, or NYC from monster, and call up the person taking applications, ask them how many applications they have gotten for the job. I have a friend who is a head hunter in NY the amount of offers is sick. hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs since january 1st. and lets not forget the job market wasnt exactly great last year.
oh and by the way if im racist for disliking people coming here and taking jobs that should be hired for locally YOUR racist for hating america which you obviously do, and no despite what you seem to think im not a flag waving asshole i want out of this country and i am planning on leaving this summer for the simple reason of OUR ECONOMY IS GOING TO SHIT !
and BTW please explain how flipping burgers supports 2 kids a wife mortgage car payment et all ? i am REALLY dying to hear this
here you go again, making assanine assumptions. i am not racist, i am however pro-american and because i live here, and i do not want the quality of life here to go down. you seem to think that working hard will find you a job, bullshit. right now people in the tech sector get anywhere from 50 - 50,000 applications per job opening, do the math. some people are fools they think they are entitled to a BMW and a condo on the beach, screw them. im talking about average joe with 2.2 kids and a mortgage. those are the people i worry about.
.....
your attitude is appaling you somehow seem to think you are above all of this. its going to be funny if this trend continues, cause you will be out of a job as well. and it wont be for a "3 month" period either.
another thing you dont get is everything i said is *if* this trend continues. if EVERY low end IT job (READ: not management) goes overseas.
and i do not care if people (black, white, brown, or yellow) immagrate to the US. because that will help us. i WANT them to move here. not train here and go back to india. that HURTS the US.
and im going to say this one last time and take the chance that this might permiate your thick ass skull
A: sending jobs overseas by reducing local employment reduces a companies market
B: thereby reducing their profits.
C: thereby reducing there workforce.
D: GOTO A.
you seem to think that by a company paying someone a shit-load less than what they are worth will in some way help our economy but you forget that paying someone 4/hr or even 7/hr doesn't allow them to spend alot of money - if any at all - on american products. THAT is basic economics. plus this might be good for other countries in 5 years but you know what ? it isn't going to be good for the US because all of the US companies will be going out of bussiness.
oh and BTW people who have worked for the large majority of their life to get into a good position in the IT industry cannot afford to start over, and they shouldnt have to. somebody who is 35 years old and has a masters and two kids and a wife et all shouldnt be forced out of the industry. period.
if you wish to reply to what i said make sure you take what i said in context instead of assuming bullshit.
.... which leads into the next nice little tidbit - if all the americans become unemployed who the hell is buying the procuct ? people over in india are not buying stuff like americans do, and they wont for the next 20 years, in the meantime ? im supposed to watch these bloated "world thinkers" shit the economy away ? get a grip ! screw 20 years from now, what about now ? what if 60 million americans end up un-employed because of this crap ? then what ? feel chipper because the guy in india drives a toyota ? FSCK THAT !
.... i chose this industry because i love computers, not the paycheck - and you are not the only person who has had to take a paycut in the past few years. but thats not the end of the world. being unemployed for 5 years or longer is. and i have seen it first hand. its not a pretty picture. i understand economics i understand that quite a few people i know who are damn good at what they do can't get a job because some jackass came over on an HB-1 to train for 1/5th what they CAN take.
Now when the hell did i say i went to school ? what debt ? i have zero debt, and do not have a degree. its because I know my shit I have a job.
you asked WHY american companies should hire american employees, simple dickwad WE ARE THE ONES WHO BUY THEIR PRODUCT ! not some indian or malasian making 4/hr, they can't afford what american companies charge
why dont you do me a favor and ASK somebody in india if they give a good goddamn about our economy ? or if OUR children are starving ? you know what he will say ? no, because his kids are fine.
i hate it when you bleeding hearts think we need to give everything away because you feel guilty or some crap. i like my loft, i like my job, i like my car. do i need all of it ? no, but why do i need to sacrifice for someone in india ? you feel so great for this cause then you do me a favor, "sacrifice" for both of us.
and about your holier than thou cruft at the end of your post
what you dont seem to grasp is simple, most people make what they do because they can, but some of us make what we do because we have to. because internet access is a job requirement, as is a computer, and transportation and none of this shit is cheap in the good old USA so where my apartment might cost 150/month in india it costs 650/month here. not much anybody can do about that, short of freezing to death sleeping on a park bench in "protest".
First off X your missing the real point of the whole outsourcing thing. americans are losing jobs, here and now. and if we dont have jobs we dont buy products.... this would also be what most people call the "current state of affairs". and another thing, domestic spending accounts for 2/3's of the money involved in our economy. so singapore, japan, india, et all dont total HALF what we do in terms of spending. and i do not see that changing.
second off companies that outsource to india or whereever do not get better production per employee. they hire two people for each one in the US. and save a little because for the 30k/year i make they make 12k/year. so wow they save 2k/year. and piss off all employees who *think* or *assume* their job is the next to be "relocated". (oh and in case you hadn't already guessed i happen to work for an outsourcing company who has offices in both india and the US). this whole cycle will not help americans it will help other counties and rich old white americans. this does not help our economy.
oh and another thing, the people in india that make 12k/year do not have anywhere near the quality of life we do. and they might not for another 10 - 20 years. (this comes from experience) they are essentially a third world country, bad water supply and famine in some parts of the country among other things. but of course you like so many other people in this damn thread think americans should "lower" our living standard and hence lower our cost of living. right, you move to some third world country.... see if you can dig up some bandwidth so you can post to slashdot, and complain of hunger.
and no i do not support "fat cat" living. the dot-bomb era was a frigging joke. no web designer should make over 35k. not a single one. but at the same time a guy who is a programmer (a good one.) shouldnt be making 25k when people who rely on his production make 5 - 10 times that. i have no issue outsourcing tech support and other low level jobs. but good jobs should stay here if the company wants to sell here. period.
I'd settle for a private island, and a few pop-stars as my personal minions.
CALL TIPS !!!!!!!
it doesn't but
....
.... surely not as often as in the old days, but it still happens. (as an aside/example: all of these children who have been abused by catholic priests will more likely than not cause harm to someone else. or suffer mental issues in dealing with what was done to them.)
....
if someone is a memeber of a "faith" (i am agnostic and hence i have no faith, good or bad.) and they are found to be "sinning" in many many parts of the world they would be "purged" of their sins by being beaten, raped etc
and do not be mistaken this takes place in the USA, western Europe etc
the parent of this thread is exactly whats wrong with alot of things surrounding sex. one should not feel "dirty" or "shamed" when you do something, and if you do it is most likely your parents/gaurdians fault than your own. they more likely than not raised you to belive that if you actually liked sex you were immoral, or if you jerked off you would go blind etc
anyone who is a member of the "moral moronity" known has organized religion need not comment.
this type of system promotes intolerance. and should not be used for a damn thing. it is actually one of the worst things that could be done in this type of situation, if you wanna break out the "plastic man", or do the "five knuckle shuffle" while looking at pr0n so be it.... it is what it is and no more, some people would have you belive that what i just said was a "sin" but since we were created in "gods image" and AFAIK the "good book" doesn't say anything about a wife you can bet your ass he can "shuffle" with the best ! the man probably owns jenna jamison's entire collection !
take that you haughty taughty @#$%!@%$ !!
(most of the above was a joke, if it offends you please reply so i can offend you more !)
i meant smear (if im wrong sue me, you get the idea.)as in the ads netzero runs with AOL et all being ripped for being too expensive...... but to continue with my point .....
was bandwidth not stolen ? cause if it wasnt "stolen" by some virus then what caused the spike in traffic ? the bandwidth fairy ? call it what you want, the bandwidth went *somewhere*, or to be more specific it was used by *something*. and that was my point. if it gets used the person who is paying for it foots the bill. unless its the ISP's fault as i stated. the ISP is not a damn insurance company. and the ISP was not said to be at fault, plus as i stated they are not supposed to be blocking traffic unless stated in a contract. if the contract says "block bad things" then this convo is moot.
i do not assume that having a small website wont generate mucho traffic... i know it wont. and i run on the 24.x.x.x network of road runner which is notoriously noisy with virus's and worms. of course i also wouldnt buy a "burstable" connection for the exact reason we are discussing.
would the ISP be better of waiving the fees ? probably. they would be one hell of alot better off to offer tiered "speed" based connections instead of by the GB/month or whatever this guy is getting billed for, no argument there.
but its not who would benifit the most from paying. its who's responsability it is. and in my mind if this happens most ISP's will waive the bill as you stated. and should point out the benefit of switching to a "speed" (ie 1Mb down 1Mb up) based connection. if the customer doesnt want to listen its his own damn fault.
and yes i was good at retail management, but i also didnt let my employees (commision based) get hosed because some jagoff decided he needs to make $60 by returning a brick. why ? because if i let him return the brick it makes it harder to return a broken item for someone else. major retailers dont like major loses, and when you keep getting "bricks" higher ups start watching over your shoulder, and then every little friggin thing becomes a mountain.....
i agree with what your saying to a DEGREE. the store doesnt have to pay the fine if people are chilling outside trying to get in, but likewise neither does the mall.
the point is that you control your flow of traffic, dont run pr0n and you wont get crushed, and dont host with a company who's network is still riddled with code red, nimda, slammer and the like. it is up to the consumer to make a decision. like i said before having a server is not a need its a want. you dont like the type of bill your getting ? change hosting companies, just like a store that is constantly fined for being overcrowded.... they would change to a larger store.
plus if ISP's foot the bill for something thats not their fault then all of a sudden the majority of small to midsized ISP's go belly up and we have a monopoly in service providers. then they can charge you even more.... bandwidth doesnt grow on trees, it costs money even large ISP's are paying someone something for the privledge of having those lines connected to the net/other ISP's.
furthermore their is no way an ISP should just start blocking people because of unwanted traffic. your public facing servers are subject to the same whims that your public facing store is
.... and so on.) but just to play on your point if circuit city is renting the space from a mall, does the mall get fined ? or does circuit city get fined ? circuit city does because it is their problem. they are responsible for the people coming into and going out of their store, even though they dont own the roads leading to the store or the parking lot around it. its a privledge to operate on the net. and in a retail space. its not the ISP's job to bow down to you. you dont like it ? vote with your wallet.
Not quite. As a store owner you have protection via insurance, if your store is bombarded with rocks taking out every window in the place your insurance should cover it.
yes insurance would cover the PHYSICAL damage. if mcdonalds takes out a smear campaign against BK and BK loses and estimated 10 billion insurance wont cover that. there is no "physical damage" done to systems. and insurance in case of over bandwidth use due to crackers is like insurance to cover excessive gas use due to someone siphoning the gas out of your tank, fat chance in hell that will EVER happen.
Another point is hours of access, web servers are on 24/7 whereas most stores are open at specific times. You can stop theft by closing your doors at 2am. You can't stop web traffic so easily
right, which is the advantage of having a web precance. since having a web server or email server is OPTIONAL and VOLUNTARY noone said that they have to keep it. if its that much of a burden move on. or find a different way to make money.
Yes, but they have the right to do that if they wanted. In fact too many people in the store would get them fined by the FD and I doubt they would want that, there are maximum occupancy limits on buildings. If an extra 50 people rushed the building and they were over capacity who's going to pay the fine?
first of retail stores break capacity almost EVERYDAY during the holidays, and rarely get fined. (i know this because i was retail management during the economic upswing. and we got fined once, and that was because of a fight that got the cops called
come on i should get to have my OC12 running into my house so i can download mp3's ...... 39.95 just like road runner right ?
(that was a joke.)
the only way this is the ISP's fault is if the traffic is coming frmo another one of their machines, or a hosted machine. it is their responsability to maintain their network. nothing more. and if some box in china starts bombing your pipe its not their fault unless they said they would put a firewall/router up to block incoming traffic BEFORE it hits your pipe. which nobody does.
furthermore their is no way an ISP should just start blocking people because of unwanted traffic. your public facing servers are subject to the same whims that your public facing store is. and when i was at circuit city on black friday i do not recall them saying "we are out of stock go away" or "we have too many people in here. go away".
i wont even get into what ISP's playing god would lead to
2. Backbone providers block stuff. (other backbone segments.)
3. Countries start blocking stuff. (china==USA ?)
4. you get charged EXTRA to have access to the "unfiltered internet"
but hey its just my opinion, i could be wrong
..... i thought in Soviet russia Linux runs on XP Recovery console !
you forgot,
Afraid of the gov't, read slashdot.
Afraid of big companies, read slashdot.
If either of the above apply, post to slashdot !
*and yes this was a joke, if you are offended by it maybe you fit into one of the above catagories, and should rethink your position.*
..... you cannot get rid of every hole.
however you can do a mucchhhhhh better job than M$ is doing. the idea of *security via obscurity* is whats wrong with them. hiding the bugs doesnt fix them, or make them any less likely to be exploited.
yes i agree, to a certain degree. floppies come in handy for small files. but i can't fit even one mp3 onto a floppy. or most common stuff i use for that matter. however since i do run my firewall of a floppy drive and nothing else .... they definetly serve a purpose.
256MB USB keychain. small, convienient, works in EVERY OS, holds roughly the same amount of data has 177 floppies. there wasnt that easy ?
i dont see why not. all you would need is a computer, a cooler and some fuel cells. set up the cooler to hold the hard drive, mobo/proc, dremel some holes for the cable running to keyboard etc. hell you could even get a little 12 inch LCD and mount it on a hinge on the top, cut out a spot for it to fold down into the top (face down of course.).
hell i have seen minifridge-pc's why not a cooler ? the only real issue is getting the batteries to somehow power everything. which cant be that hard since i have seen people do that as well.
some sysadmins are just lazy.
others know that 80 - 90% of there job is interacting with Lusers.
one word .... HELMET !.
.... so the "most part" should be "least part" if they are a typical blader they will wear all sorts of plastic/metal protective gear.
i happen to have knocked out some poor guys front four teeth with my helmet back in high school
they should, all current versions of the alpha procs run linux great. (as verified by the alphaserver 5000 sitting under my desk running RH 7.2)
ah the advantage of being single and 21 .....
but really thats a good idea about the severance package, i'll have to check on that. they already offered relocation costs. so thats a bonus.
TA