Slashdot Mirror
Taiwan Forces MS To Cut Prices, Unbundle Software
bev_tech_rob writes "This article from ZDNet reports how Microsoft has agreed to cut prices on their software after a backlash from the country's effort to crack down on piracy. Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need."
How long do I have before the BSA shows up at my door if I make the arguement that I was FORCED to use all those . .um ..demonstration copies ..of microsoft software because of the high cost?
Yeah. Forced. Arm twisting and the whole deal.
anything i tell you will cloud your opinion.
Too bad the US couldn't learn a little from Taiwan...
Off course, when that they got the governement on the modchip problem they had, they are expecting greater revenue so they can "afford" to lower their already "cheap" prices. :P
Posting useless rant since 2003.
But why should MS be concerned? Taiwan was famous for nothing more than piracy - the theft of MS's software. Remind me why they would care about what Taiwan says?
Sorry, even with how much control over the computer industry MS has, I find it hard to believe that anyone can be 'forced' to pirate Windows, or Office, or whatever. There ARE free alternatives.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
So is this like mexico and pills, they sell it cheaper there cause you cant pay the full price?
Kind of sucks...
So, how long till we see a warez scene release of the microsoft source code? I mean isn't taiwan one of the worst countries for piracy there is?
Gee, this sounds awfully familiar. Not a problem unique to Taiwan. I wonder if (and hope) it will ultimately have implications for the US market.
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them." -Isaac Asimov
Hopefully after they see the positive effect this has on the consumer, they will start to do the same elsewhere.
I am serious.
No really, I'm being serious.
Even at the newly reduces MS pricing, Microsoft can't compete in the Taiwanese market. Pirated MS discs can be had on almost any street corner for a dollar a disc.
breaking up windows would destroy the OS when the antitrust suit was on?
I really wish they'd relax on the pricings of Visual Studio.. they should know that students cannot afford to purchase it. I mean, they do have the Student Edition but when you go into the workforce, they're going to have the Enterprise Architect Edition.
Development tools should be free to students. It would ensure that people would have the skills to use the tools as they become available
Not just MS, but software making companies all over the world charge way too much money for software. The number one reason there's so much pirating is because software simply costs too much. But reduced prices or not, I'll still favor Open Source over anything else.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
I was once forced by pirates to use Microsoft software. Will that get me any sort of discount?
Assuming the software in Taiwan is a lot cheaper than in North America and Europe, what's to stop someone from buy^H^H^Hlicensing MS' software in Taiwan and using it here? Do the licenses actually have clauses against that?
Trolling is a art,
"Microsoft Taiwan's concrete action to lower prices of Microsoft products is exactly in line with the Fair Trade Commission's goals of maintaining orderly trade, consumer benefits, fair competition and economic prosperity,"
Actually, if people were buying pirated software in huge quantities, maybe MS decided that SOME profit is better than none.
Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost
This is a problem most people under 24 seem to have...
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
I wonder how long it'll be before the source code to Windows et al gets in the hands of the wares groups. With Microsoft sharing it with countries like Taiwan and Russia - which aren't exactly under the thumb of the US Government like the UK is - I reckon it won't be long.
E000-VB14-G8RY
but let's face it .. the alternatives suck.
actions speak louder than words.
What do i do ? ... GNU/Linux ) ....Windows XP kills your kids, go with linux
Bash Mircosoft ?
Praise Taiwan ?
Hail Linux ? (oops
Seriously, I miss those days when slashdot's M$ stories were like
So easy to pick a side, now with these ambiguous stories, I don't know which side i am on.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
....i thought it was integrated and couldnt be sold seperately??? wasnt that part of their argument at the monopoly trials? if they can break it up into components for those guys, why the HELL can't they do it for us here in the states? seems unfair to me...i dont want to pay hundreds of dollars for an operating system that is only nessessary for games, yet here i am...
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
We're still not paying for Windows, though.
;)
DarklordJonnyDigital, officially surfing on Debian
Like a 26% reduction in price is going to stop people from pirating it. They are just going to buy more blanks with the extra cash!
Yes.... the high prices are the reason I was forced to pirate Winxp! Or maybe I just don't like the idea of making the richest people in the world richer, for an upgrade to something I already payed for.
DRM = Digitally Restricted Media. This is a viral sig, pass it on.
that can not be serious. How were they forced to buy pirated copies of MS products? I guess a computer is now a necessity to live.
Why couldn't they use Linux or some other OSS/FS os?
Microsoft will also share its Windows source code as part of its Government Security Program, which allows governments to adapt the software and test its ability to fend off hackers.
So not only are they sharing the source code, they're allowing the Taiwanese governemt to make changes!
Why don't I believe this.
I wonder if this is related to their recent decision to let Mac users buy Entourage without purchasing the entire Office suite. Or more accurately, if that was related to this.
No one is prevented from installing Linux on Apple computers. The EULA doesn't prevent it either. Go away, troll.
if real pirates pirate a ship with Window$ distrubutives near Taiwan?
The article complains about software being packaged in expensive bundles.
Just looking up the prices for MS software on Outpost.com, Word costs $340 and Excel costs $320, but Office itself only costs $440. Office also includes Powerpoint (another $320 by itself) and Outlook ($100 by itself).
Even for just one component, you're far better off buying the bundle here in the US. How much is the bundle mark-up that they're complaining about?
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
But Microsoft said the Operating System would become unstable without all that stuff + kitchen sink.
"They wouldn't like, would they?"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Microsoft will also share its Windows source code as part of its Government Security Program, which allows governments to adapt the software and test its ability to fend off hackers.
Russia was the first country to take advantage of the program in January. The source code--blueprints of Microsoft's dominant operating systems--is one of the world's most tightly protected corporate secrets.
Knowing russian social structure, (considering I used to live there...) that source will quicly become public.
KremlinXP anybody?
Free speech is getting expensive...
We All know Bill Gates has a god complex, and thinks he can do whatever he wants.
Next thing you know Microsoft will start bundling other software and hiding it, and it only comes out when you install the software.... GRRR Microsoft has pissed me off today so I am sorry if this sounds bitter. GOD DAMN IIS,
---
And why would them switch over another platform, being SO used to MS?
This is just the beginning. After Europe has dealt with MS America will follow.
Man I sound like a starting Linux user. But I really think people are finally aware that they are mistreated by the giant and that they have the power to do something about it.
-- Cheers!
Microsoft didn't agree to seperate the Windows operating system, only to sell the various applications of the Office Suite by themselves. In other words, it appears as though the Taiwanese will be able to buy only Word or Excel without having to purchase the entire suite. They are still as evil as they ever were when it comes to Windows.
I just got the mental image of the Red Hat buildings driving up beside the MS buildings in Redmond and them having it out Monty Python style.
Scary.. but.. that's the real way to be a pirate.
(AP Taiwan) Manufacturers are unable to explain why generic PC equipment they manufacture is unable to run on recent betas of windows.
Why is Taiwan the only country who does this? Why can't other countries. But anyways, they are not forced to pirate, since you can always install an open-source or free Operating System instead. If you don't like those, you don't have to have a computer either.
;-)
I still can't believe that Microsoft would do anything that would get in the way of their precious money that they worship everyday. I guess it depends how Taiwan forced them, maybe by aircraft or helicopter?
They could just use BSD or Linux with Open Office or KOffice.
Better solution I believe!
I do believe that it is spelled Warez...
This War 3 z that you talk about sounds scary... I'm hoping that it was simply a mistake...
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
Yeah, but keep in mind there are people convinced that it is essential to have Windows to live the good life, and even those who are trying to keep up with the Jonses (not everyone in the world thinks western or like americans) If the Jonses have WinXP and you're sitting there with your humble (pirated) copy of Win98 and the outlay for XP would ecclipse your disposable income for a month, you nip down to Chang's Software Emporium and buy a copy of XP (sans-license) from he-of-the-large-overcoat-in-the-alley-next-door for a measely pittance (or two.) Now you're up with the Jonses, Bill Gates is still in the news driving his big yacht up and down the boulevards of Seattle, and everyone has the good life.
Ok, it's wrong, but if Microsoft played the game the MPAA does with DVD's, they could market cheaper versions, specifically for markets with lower median incomes. (Then they may do this, but still at a price high enough to be a barrier.)
The peer pressure to be viewed as a success is high, and anything some people can do to achieve that appearance they will do. Ethics are up to the individual.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Cuz we can afford it. In a lot of other countries around the world where a worker only brings home $1200 a year (and that's rich for some villagers in China), how can they afford a $100-$300USD app suite? Enter the five finger or low cost piracy. Plain and simple economics, not ethics. And since when is M$ an ethical company anyway?
If only hardware distributors would now start selling their box to me at the price less the cost of the OEM M$ OS, if I don't want it, then the world would be a better place.
Dude, I'm trying to not read the article here... and then you ambush me with this... How can I be expected to write nonsensical flames from the summary if you are confronting me with the *full text* of the article!? Come on, gimme a break here.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
So even though a federal court found MS guilty of doing the same thing here, MS got to keep their high prices and predatory practices. Amazing.
It seems as if Taiwan has succeeded in doing what John Ashcroft and Co. (and his predecessors, for that matter) could never do: control Microsoft. Strange, isn't it, that Taiwan can effectively demand concessions from a foreign company when our own DOJ can't even enforce the judgements they do have against a domestic one...
Yeah, the future's bright. I think I'm going to start a monopoly somewhere - then I can tell John Ashcroft and the DOJ where to go...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
So now we can soon also get the Red Screen of Death, and Microsoft Ivan?
What is this crummy VisualStudio.Net you speak of?
I have never heard of it!! I use Kdevelop and g++!!
They are free!! Any developmnet environment that you pay for and then forces you to stay only with it is useless!!
Ok, the practice of unbundling software seems pretty nifty in theory. I don't really see a point for Microsoft to do that -- "big bad monopoly" aside. Office XP is indeed overpriced, but how many corporate offices only need/use Microsoft Word, but not Excel or Access? Something smells fishy in Taiwan.
Hell, if I could pick and mix my Operating System, that would be pretty swank. I'd do away with all of the included applications outside of notepad (force of habit.) Final price for JUST the Operating system itself? 10 dollah. It last long time.
The Taiwanese build everything from my alarm clock to my TV, why are they bitching about OfficeXP and piracy? Why can't they code up TaiwanOffice?
Unbundling MS Office won't change the fact the majority of the Asian countries always have and always will pirate software. For many people in these ancient lands, piracy is how they get their income.
Now, for all of you MS haters -- you should be happy that the Asian people can make a living off of raping Microsoft!
I got nothin'
It looks like what really happened here is that the Taiwanese gov't "implied" to MSFT that, if they didn't show some flexibility in app bundling (Office apps, NOT Windows), then they Taiwanese gov't wouldn't be very supportive when it came to cracking down on piracy. So MSFT cuts prices, and the gov't continues to make some effort to reduce piracy.
Pirated software (Especially MS software) is also used here, but then, this has a big draw back for the people using the software.
Huge programs have localized specifications, which require a bit of more work, and cost the company money, if the company does not gain money through this country, these localizations will not be worked on anymore, and then the whole country/area would lose.
Seems MS however, in this case, have thoughtfully considered the issue and found out that reducing prices and wining the user is worth more than otherwise, but would this always be the case? I really doubt so!
Khalid
"What you 'seek' is what you get!"
at least M$ is admitting they are price gouging their csutomres
Pants are still optional, but recommended for you.
Taiwan: Preeze to be lowawing Rindows Pwices
Gates: No
Taiwan: We can pray such high pwices for honowable Rindows Softrare
Gates: No
Taiwan: But you have such rarge penises. Our penises vewy vewy smarl. Preeze to be making cheaper Rindows
Gates: Aww, shucks... Ok..
I heard Ms Clause is "late".. hehe if you know what I mean...
*wink wink*
(thanks to pxlinuonline.com for the link)
e-japan
During a meeting with the e-Japan task force within the Liberal Democratic Party, Gates said open-source systems would be difficult to use for commercial purposes as their code is freely available. He urged government leaders to consider using software that required licensing fees for the sake of promoting growth in the software industry.
I pulled a jack move to cop this sig
Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need.
So that explains why piracy effects nearly industry in asian countries. Its simply due to illegal monopolies and bundling useless stuff with useful stuff. Apparently people wanting to get something for nothing isn't the real reason after all.
I'm a Marine.
I'm ready for war.
HURAHHHHH!!!
Anyone for a Saddam burger?
Heh.. All I picture is Clippy with a Soviet military hat on, with a AK47 or somesuch (not a gun person..)
Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
Slashdot has now taken a firm position on Taiwanese independence.
Dude, give up the "YOU FAIL IT" stuff.
Its not really as funny as "In Soviet Russia..."
If you think your going to be the creator of something as funny as "In Soviet Russia..." your sorely misktaken. "YOU FAIL IT" won't take off.
Saying that of your attemt to be funny and creative, and hoping to put your mark on slashdot... well YOU FAIL IT!
p.s. the french are floofies too
No, it's a problem everyone has. Ask your IT guys how much your company pays for software. The product is greater than the sum its the parts as it is passed down through the food chain. Where do you think M$'s billions of dollars come from? Those billions of dollars represent a significant but unnecessary economic friction. The waste M$ forces onto everyone in the form of file formats and work disruption is even greater than the billions that can be counted. I don't even want to think about privacy and data security issues, but the costs of "I love you" were reported to be in the billions too.
The good people of Taiwan will be happy to pass thoses costs along and you can expect the cost of electronic components, clothes and other goods to go up by that little chunck. Or they will get smart and start using free software.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I am boycotting fries.
Raise that number. We are in a recession.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Since Linux is now a business, /. can no longer bash rich white guys with software factory towns for being white, rich, or monopolists! So, we now have to resort to reasoned arguments... oh, wait... this is /.
Children love both nicotine and windows!
"Microsoft will also share its Windows source code..."
I never expected M$ to do this in a million years. Does the US government have the same access to windows source code?
...quicker, easier, more seductive the darkside is...but more powerful, it is not.
Well darn.
(Taiwan's Ministry of Information Technology bought all rights to the PenPoint OS and UI back when Go Corp. when bankrupt (see Jerry Kaplan's book _StartUp_) and I'd always wondered if it'd been to use it as bargaining chip to get better prices.)
Another great conspiracy theory down the drain.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Unless my understanding of the Taiwanese political climate is way off, no one was FORCED to buy pirate copies of any Microsoft product. If valid licensed copies of Windows were out of the average person's affordability range, he or she still has the choice to not have a copy of Windows at all.
If it wasn't, most distributions would be in a similar than MS is. With some major distros spanning 7+ CDs and bundled with everything from a Fortran 77 compiler to a rewrite of the Ultima VII engine, Microsoft's bundling doesn't seem strange. In fact, if current market share was not an issue, there would be very few reasons to pick a MS OS over any major Linux distro. After all, almost every piece of software Joe Sixpack might ever want to use comes in the distro!
I belive that MS's bundling is evil (like the axis), and maybe even criminal. However, we have to understand that it is wrong just because of MS's stranglehold of the market. If the mere act of bundling one product with another was the core of the problem, Linux distros would be the greater evil.
No don't laugh right away! FreeBSD is one of the most easily configurable *NIX'es I've worked with. Just do a base install, keep the handbook close at hand (just install the doc package) and you can set it all up the way you want it. And you don't need a CS degree to do it.
Admitted it will take a lot of your time initially but it *NEVER* crashes.. (insert appropriate disclaimer: it never crashed for me yet).
You'll also learn very much about UNIX and the way computers work in general while going through setting up your own box.
The main reason people don't understand Linux is, IMHO, the fact that every distribution does things differently from the other. Even across versions of the same distro. And they all come with everything and -recently- even the kitchen sink preinstalled.
I run a FreeBSD desktop at home which took me ages to set up, but I know exactly where everything is and how things interact.
At work I have RedHat 8.0 running on a scanner workstation. The thing installs within minutes and has everything I need on it by default. No tweaking needed and RH-Network keeps the box up to date quite reasonably. If it ever fails I just reinstall RH and the defaults work again, just need to add some NFS mounts.
Linux' complexity lies in its distributors trying to over-simplify an inherently complex system. And the reason for it being complex is the fact that everything about it is open and configurable. Want simple linux? You have to cut down on configurability. Yes, even *SHUDDER* hard-code settings in there maybe.
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
Ya, and I was forced to steal cable TV and uncap my cable modem and copy videos I rented all because they're more than I can afford to pay.
Geez, just because you can't afford something doesn't give you the right to steal it (or infringe on the copyright as the case may be). There are affordable alternatives out there to most expensive things.
47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
That was stupid.
You realize another chunk has fallen out of the M$ damb. How many electronic component makers are going to start considering Linux drivers over this? Chances are, they already have the drivers ready.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Will be more annoying the US version. If you click on him he will spilt open and out will come out a smalller one. Click on him - same thing.
Vertial Matrojshka clippy.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
I'm on the Westside.
I eat babies.
>>the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need.
How many people really NEED MS Office applications? Literally nobody. You can't claim on the one hand that Office applications suck and the alternatives are better and on the other that people can't stop using them. You can't claim on the one hand that nobody uses anything more than the simplest features and on the other that the file formats are a big problem, since the file formats for basic Office docs are well understood.
The truth here is that people used pirated copies because they didn't want to pay the price Microsoft asked. They're thieves.
only if you can catch my snatch
Piraty Pirates!
...are a people who have more than the usual reason to appreciate freedom. Congratulations to them for standing up to the Copyright Nazi's and Robber Barons of the U.S. I.P. Mafia.
Piracy IS THE HIJACKING OF VESSELS IN THE HIGH SEAS.
The only reason for calling copying
"piracy" is to be compliant with
section 8
and be able to enforce strict uniform penalties.
To fit that into federal laws the lawyers put
that name to trick people.
"what are they supposed when someone sends them .doc files?"
of creating great open source aps like Open Office, when people like you are too lazy to even do some research and discover their existence. Or maybe that's fine, since you are obviously too lazy to report bugs or add features, there is no loss to the community.
Open source IS the end-all be-all of software, just not for lazy people like you that need to be told what to buy. I find it ironic that you waste your time at a forum so closely modeled after Open Source.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Get off my launchpad!
No money and a dead Win95 disk and since it was past 5 year old they would not replace or even allow a update(the upgrade price was just inside what I could pay). So guess what geting a copy from some who was prepard to copy a operating system to keep working.
>> and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need
That's not because a pirated version of MS office is available for $2 there, not at all!!!
If MS products are overpriced or bundled in obnoxious ways, how does that "force" me to pirate?
Starbucks coffee is pretty expensive. That doesn't "force" me to steal cups of coffee. If I choose to steal a cup of coffee, that is my decision, not the inevitable result of their high prices.
Hey, I hate MS as much as the next person, but I still believe that I'm in control of my own actions.
-monique
It should be obvious to most people that the price demanded by microsoft is far to high for what you get. Office is ~$400 for five or six programs.. These programs were not that complex in the first place. I know I'd much rather program a program like Word then some of the harder parts of the Windows OS ( ~$150).. Add onto this that the programs in the suite haven't been changed by much in the last 10 years.
If I was running a company, it would seem quite obvious that I could have my employees do exactly the same things with OpenOffice (free) or Corel Office (much less $$ than MS) and my company could save hundreds of dollars per employee.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
What ARE you guys complaining about? Windows XP Professional only cost me 30$! Office XP only cost me 60$... ... at the microsoft employee store....
:)
*yay friends who are ex-employees of microsoft*
Now while I am a spoiled brat who happily takes advantage of people who Microsoft has unfairly fired (long story), I know I do choose to buy legit copies of the software when the prices are "reasonable".
I do seriously believe, that if they could offer JUST Word for under 50$, students would buy it. Why do you think so many students used Microsoft Works? Because it has/had a student discount at the university store and was cheap. I just did a pricecheck - Microsoft Works 2003 costs 68$ at Cnet. Add in the student rebate (I am assuming there still is one, I am no longer a student), and a student can start to justify a 40-50$ software purchase of Word.
Cnet's review of Microsoft Works 2003 here
It's Word 2003, with a few unnecessary "helper" apps.
Tepp
Nice one.
No matter what country you live in, MS prices are too high for the little guy.
you FAIL it harder than most, pillow-biter
I found that one part of the russians being the first to take advantage of the Microsoft source code initiative to be helarous. Wasn't it they who "aquired" that source anyway last year in that famous breach?! :) So, I guess, after their "self help", why not make them first?
Stop modding the parent up, you retarded moderators. There have been several examples showing that Open Office does not read .doc files fine.
It's rather pitiful at it, really. If you're sharing documents that just have basic formatting and no tables, maybe, but if that's the case then save yourself some application load time and just save them as plain text files with a text editor.
sheesh
Bill Gates : Saddam u look peachy
Just admit it... these people resorted to piracy of items that were for them luxury ("toys") or at least not even remotely necessary for basic survival and living. Its the same as when some "oppressed" idiot wearing pants around hanging down to his knees steals DVD players, CD's and stereo equipment. That crap isn't to feed him or his family nor is it to provide through sales such necessary items to live. Nope, that idiot there dressed like a clown is just a greedy, oxygen wasting sack of sewer floating shit. Those that justify his action are of the same mentality as you and I am willing to be that it all stems from a self loathing/guilt trip that is firmly in place simply because you too have no ethics or principles. People without principles are ALWAYS the first to use one hand to fight off anyone they perceive as stopping or judging them when it comes to their hypocritical infringement upon the rights and property of others... yet then use the otherhand perhaps even with more mindless zeal, to actually be themselves stealing and infringing upon others.
Don't like it, don't buy it. Like it? Then be willing to pay the price. Until that day I will no more listen to brainless drivel from toads like you than I would if you replaced "Microsoft Software" with "Big Screen TV" or "Fancy Sports Car."
99% percent?? How did I come up with that you ask?
86% profit markup here in the US
+
13% profit markup over North American prices (according to Taipei Times)
=99%
That's without mentioning the software bundling issue which forces unwanted software on customers.
"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976." --George W. Bush, to Queen Elizabeth, Wash
Sounds like you haven't tried the latest version yet, which allows you to bring up the component tools individually.
If my older Accord has a defect then the car manufacturer is required to FIX his defective products even when years have passed, if it is determined to be an engineering issue. He is also required to inform me of the problem, that is where your comparison fails.
Basic survival necessities: Food, Water, Windows Shelter, Slashdot
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Software Quote Piracy Unquote is an interesting subject. There is no such thing. When I perform a copy I must obey the set of rules that govern copying. Copyright law is a set of rules that govern copying, but you already know that, or do you? Everyone keeps talking about this Quote Piracy Unquote thing that doesn't even exist.
If anything at all I might be breaking a certain part of copyright law under certain conditions. The courts are there to decide if this is illegal. The law includes allot more than "pirated" and "unpirated".
I'll give some examples of similar terms: Zealots, Trusted, Rights Management, Western and Intelligent. They are all over-simplified cop-outs that help us avoid the real issues and replace them with sensationalized crap.
When you use a single word to describe an entire complex system of rules and the manner in which they are sometimes interpreted someone loses and someone else wins. Using "piracy" is alike to carrying a slogan. I'm not saying that you should or should not. Just try to realize who's dictionary does it come from, and to what end is it used.
I've never committed Quote Piracy Unquote. All I've done is work within the system of copyright rules to the best of my knowledge and with my own best intention in mind.
Avoidance of this term will in my humble opinion force people to try and rethink the subject.
This subject is in dire need of rethinking.
If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
Word costs $340 and Excel costs $320, but Office itself only costs $440. ... Even for just one component, you're far better off buying the bundle here in the US.
I don't know where you're living, but over here in the US, $340 is less than $440, so if you only need one component, you're not better off buying the bundle.
I don't know why this is even news. Nobody said that it is going to effect people outside of taiwan? But I guess this could be great news for consumers if it does.
scoob
www.rainbowportal.net developer
A few hundred here, a few hundred there, sooner or later you're talking about real money. On the order of the purchase price of several desktop machines...
Yeah, I bet this has a huge impact on the problem, I figure:
If the users of the software are so poor they are 'Forced' to use pirate copies, then they are sure to read about the reduced cost option and uninstall the perfectly good pirate copy, and then go spend a couple of months wages on a legitimate version of the same thing.
Yeah, right.
Chances are, this is just a punt out to try and shift new versions of the software to reduce the interoperability between legitamate new software and thousands of times pirated versions of the same (read office 98 > office XP).
If they can't afford the software, then how will they afford the hardware upgrade to run the new software?
1) My last pc (purchased early 2001) shipped with Windows ME. Come on. What was I supposed to do with that? Had it been clearly marked "Unusable Operating System" I would have waited until XP was released before buying. As it was, I sure didn't feel much like shelling out more dough for yet another MS operating system --- and I don't think I should have had to.
2) My dad bought MS's Streets & Maps (yeah, I know -- dad, did you ever heard of Mapquest?) and put it on his XP machine. Then he tried to install it on my mom's XP laptop. Which it choked because it already had gotten hooked into his machine, I guess contacting the M(other) S(hip) to tell them what he was doing. I don't think my dad should have to buy TWO versions of Streets & Maps for one household.
But, these kinds of things backfire on a corporation. People eventually get sick of it, like they did in Taiwan. What goes around comes around, I guess it's Karma.
http://ob-la-blog.blogspot.com/
Information wants to be free!
Got any good \/\/4rz3 sites?
For most people, security is not important. Top performance is not important. Optimum configuration is not important. Control is not important. Not having to power toggle is not important.
Being able to put the CD in the CD drive, press a button a couple of times, reboot, and get what you want is VERY IMPORTANT. NOT THINKING is VERY IMPORTANT.
Users want things that work like coffee machines. You plug it in and it works. If you want a different coffee machine, you get a different coffee machine and plug it in and it works. Windows makes computers a lot more like coffee machines than Linux does. Having to turn your computer on an off to get a new feature is much less of a problem than having to know what to type to get a new feature. Linux wants you to figure stuff out. Microsoft wants your money.
For most people, giving up money is easier.
paintball
Just enough so its impossible to open newer documents on an older system, and to make sure that anything you learned how to do is useless on the new verson. Im not even talking programming here, people, were talking pulldown menus and basic functions that have been "improved" to the point that long time users cant get it to work.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
It's disgusting isn't it? I'm heartily fed up with people who claim they were 'forced' to buy Microsoft products - I haven't seen any MS employees wandering around computer stores with assault rifles, threatening me with harm or death if I don't.
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis - if the value of using Microsoft products outweighs the value of not using Microsoft products, then people will use them. If not, they won't, and if they're immoral thieves, they'll use those products without permission.
Personally, I'd answer software pirates employing the 'force' defense in the same way I'd answer someone defending his theft of my motorcycle by claiming he was 'forced' into it by the retail price of bikes - jail the fucker, and give him a good kicking before the police arrive.
Learn your geography, fool. In spite of the commies laying claim to Taiwan, it's not a part of the mainland and has a democratically elected government, issues it's own stamps, monies, and passports.
Ya it's all about the free beer after all.
I don't get this. Why should the government fiddle with prices? If the software is too expensive, don't buy it. Use open office, star office, word perfect, heck, use MS Works, whatever. If it's worth the $400, buy it. If it's not, don't buy it. As soon as the government starts controlling company prices, it's one step towards communism.
Isn't it like saying "I'd love a ferrari but I can't afford one so the government should regulate to make it cheaper". If it's not worth the $50,000 to me, then don't buy it. It's not like we are talking about food, water or shelter here (things essential to life, and therefore can arguably use some regulation).
There is no excuse for piracy. There are free alternatives. If it's such a big problem for taiwan, they should spend their time promoting the free alternatives.
Read reviews of shopping cart software
I've heard that a few years ago, Microsoft had a special version of Word that was available in every 7-Elevens in Taiwan for only 3 bucks USD. The only limitation is taht the software disallows you to edit one single document beyond 10,000 words. I don't know if they still have those.
Instead of cutting prices, Microsoft should have maintained prices that are comparable to those in the USA. To handle the issue of software piracy, Microsoft should simply build and distribute, for free, special versions of its software infected with destructive viruses. Then, people who use pirated software will be in for a rude but humorous surprise when a deadly version of Windows XP deletes all the data from the engineering workstation, medical database in an intensive care unit of a hospital, etc. Imagine a Chinese nuclear missile blowing up suddenly because of data that has been altered by a virus-infected version of Windows XP.
The Chinese are morally bankrupt and need to learn a valuable lesson in Western ethics.
But per capita GDP is not the same as per capita income. In 2000, workforce (that is, only those actually working) per capita income in Taiwan, excluding Taipei, was less that $15,000. I know only a small handful of folks (and because my business is education my circle of friends includes government employees, college professors, doctors and other educated elite) who bring home $US22,000 a year. Most years, even I barely clear that, I and make more money than almost anybody else I know.
Lee Kaiwen,
Taiwan, ROC
"Microsoft should simply build and distribute, for free, special versions of its software infected with destructive viruses. Then, people who use pirated software will be in for a rude but humorous surprise when a deadly version of Windows XP deletes all the data from the engineering workstation, medical database in an intensive care unit of a hospital, etc. Imagine a Chinese nuclear missile blowing up suddenly because of data that has been altered by a virus-infected version of Windows XP. "
You just described the US version of Windows XP.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
[Chuckle] This guy's obviously never been to Southeast Asia.
Lee Kaiwen,
Taiwan, ROC
Office XP, 2000, 97, and 95 have been available unbundled in the US (and probably available via online purchases) for as long as I can remember
m l
...
Take a look
http://www.savonsoft.com/products/msw2k2.ht
I think there is still an opium problem in China
That was at the beginning of the DVD (version I saw) if Monty Python: The Meaning of Life.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Furthermore, your response instead of being informative is a hateful emotional response that says much about your own ethos and morals.
You are right about abusive and monopolizing methods by MS yet when you must run to big brother that is also a sign of a lack of personal initiative. Go out and buy or freely download any other alternatives. Every day those alternatives are more accepted because some people are finally waking up to the fact that it is their CHOICES that in turn give or take power away from entities like Microsoft.
I pity you, if only that you are so close to being a thinking person but have let your internal hatred run your life. However, you do seem a bit confused about the ideas of honesty so I guess no one should be surprised at your confusion in other applied principles.
However, I will refrain from an analogy since you might pick it apart regardless at the expense of the reality it was menat to model a portion of. I hope you don't ever get wrongly diagnosed because of a "shoot from the hip" reaction by a doctor. "Yep, you seem to have terminal brain cancer due to that fever and slowed muscle reaction you've got there!"
Amazing how some people get SOOOO uptight and even border on violence when someone else is acting by their principles. Every lame excuse and justification is spewed even to the point that people will attack that person as if they had somehow wronged them. This overactive ID that society has is a sign of impending disaster as an internal utilitarian mind is unfit to deal with the reality that they will one day have to themselves live with being the victim of someone else's confusion of "wants" vs. "needs."
The best thing in the world is a self righteous, angst ridden person who's problems stem from ignorance, because a solution is at hand. The opposite end of this contains the fools who really are nothing but oxygen thieves anyway. Thinking is a right and a priveledge, try it sometime.
even with "academic evals" which mean that anyone not in a particular school in a particular college does not get to play along, the prices are still a bit much. There was a ton of piracy reported to 3DS and Maya not too long ago and they realized that it was in their best interest to find legal ways of allowing the artistic crowd to learn their product. Does this apply to VS.NET? (90 day trial is not a solution either)
Linux: Telling Microsoft where to go since 1991 Love your sig.
The reason that they are "forced" to use pirate the software because they need that to get a job.
Why? Since 90% of the software using in those Asian country are pirated, every software are cheap! You can get a copy of Autocad, 3Dstudio, Maya with all Adobe, Macromedia and MS for under $10. Now everyone can use that program so the job began to require more and more software skill with the resume'. Some Asian graphic design job that were posted recently (according to my Thai friend) need 3Dstudio, Maya, Autocad, Photoshop, Illustrator, Go Live, Flash, Dreamweaver, Freehand, Quark, Pagemaker, InDesign, Fireworks, Director, plus MS Office. See why they need to pirate software?
Cheaper or their own version of software? It all die a long time ago since nobody using legal copy anymore (Yes, even it's free). Now that's might explain why there are so many Asian programmer working now in the U.S.
Consumers' groups don't like the decision, which the government is locked into for five years. The deal was done behind closed doors, with all details withheld. And there don't appear to be any penalties for MS if it fails to abide by the terms of the agreement.
Originally, the government had threatened to reopen an anti-trust investigation if MS didn't sit down and bargain, but there has been a lot of speculation -- particularly by the news media, who love to speculate on such things -- that MS had threatened to back out of a research park project if the investigation was re-opened. If true, it appears to mean the government caved first.
you compare selling crack to kids with steeling software from the richest man in the world.
yah I can see how both those things are equally bad.
Dumb ass.
--meh--
Last summer, I started running OS X.. That hits the nail on the head -- secure, powerful and flexible yet you don't need to think and you don't need to work to add/remove functionality or maintain it. Far easier than anything else, plus I can keep a mix like Photoshop, Filemaker, Emacs, MySQL, etc.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Why do people just call it 'Korea'? North and South Korea are very different? I thought South Korea was much richer than North, almost as rich as the USA.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
If the file format is open and well-documented then it shouldn't matter which application users choose to run - they can choose what works best for them in regards to performace, ease of use, security and such.
- DOS
- 2,3,4&5.x
- Macintosh
- 2,3,4,5,6, 98, XP
- Windows
- 2.x, 6.x,7.x, 97, 2000, XP
Converting between these, you will lose something depending on the version. I've lost language, styles, metadata at different times. Unfortunately the loss was not always apparent at the time of migration.Just sticking with the DOS/Windows examples above, that's 9 different formats in less than 15 years, an average of 0.6 per year. To put it in English, a new format is put out more frequently than every two years. Lack of forward compatibility between the file formats used by these applications has been used consistently to drive upgrades of office packages, operating systems and hardware, all of which cause strain with retraining and budgets.
Heads up on the changes planned in for MS-Office 2003, especially the DRM, they look to cause extreme difficulty.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Most users would rather have NO filename extension, and not worry about formats at all.
It isn't necessary for non-techie users to know about file formats - the necessity arises only to support the bogus institution of indefinite monopolies via indefinite copyright. With time limited copyright, only the newest, fanciest formats remain proprietary for any length of time during which a format is read only by its proprietary application program. When it gets commoditized, it goes into the public domain, it gets supported depending on its popularity and the user only needs to think about more specialized formats which the masses never have to bother with.
It is sooooooooo witty. I am so impressed.
And it is the kind of FUD that makes people *not* listen to us that are opposed to them. Anyone who sees that will think "what a childish petty little loser". And they'll be right.
Stop hurting OSS you ba$tard. Stop trying to score cheap points the schoolyard bully way, by assigning a mocking nickname to your adversary.
Microsoft should simply build and distribute, for free, special versions of its software infected with destructive viruses
They don't need to really, I got the wife a new 'puter with WindowsXP on it, and the first thing it did was downloaded about 20 critical security related patches. Chinese with boot-legged Windows sure aren't likely to go to microsoft for patches. Even if they did require a password to get a patch down-loaded at a bit rate above a certain level say faster than 15KbS then "lose" the passwrd after so any down-loads and Email it to the Email used at registration scheme.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
The monopoly rents for MS-Office and MS-Windows have been about 5 times the free market price. So they came down 27% for Taiwan. So? 73% of 5 is 3.65.
When it gets down to close to 1, then it would be news. Otherwise, it's just a PR move. It could be interesting if it indicates the cutoff point at which Office and Windows start to turn a loss.
Will maintenance costs associated with the viruses, worms and other security problems provided by MS-Office and MS-Windows also be counted in the figure? OpenOffice is free, plus no worms. StarOffice costs, but you get support, plus no worms.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The main reason people don't understand Linux is, IMHO, the fact that every distribution does things differently from the other
Unfortunately I've gotten pretty good at "fixing" the Windows ME machine at work, now we gotten one Windows XP machine and everything I know about Windows ME don't mean squat in Windows XP the configuration interface differences between the two are much larger than the difference between two different linux distro's
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
It's just something Issac Asimov said. Or rather, it's something that he's said to have said. I've never found any evidence that the quote is genuinely attributable to him.
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them." -Isaac Asimov
Not sure if I conveyed such an assumption, but let me clarify. I do not expect every businessman to know accounting, but I do assume more competent businessmen to have taken the time and effort to master it, at least the basics of it. The same for, say, someone who wants to do business in Japan. I don't assume that they need to actually learn Japanese (a very time consuming process, more so than accounting. I can personal attest to this), but you better believe I would pay the individual fluent in Japanese more.
/. article about India moving in on higher level American jobs. You must accept this as a trend or face serious consequences later. Global competition is just getting started, and if you are not willing to "dirty" your hands in crafting skills in powerfull tools like "Open Source", then someone in this world will for half your wage. Unfortunately, you probably won't understant this for another couple of years until AFTER this occurs, but who can blame me for trying?
Knowledge about computers is different only in that it effects EVERYTHING these days. There is NOTHING you can decide to do in this world that having knowledge about computers will not greatly increase your value in the workforce. Some people learn enough to get by with Windows, but you better believe that, for now, the person that has gone to the trouble learn Linux (and, say, what an IP address), will have better luck getting a job or starting a business these days. With Lindows and other easy distros becoming more prevalent, this probably will soon not be true with Linux as a whole (and you will no longer be posting messages like this, as the rest of the herd moves to cheaper and easier Linux), but I suppose distros like Debian will still require some set of computer skills.
I do assume that you are from a wealthy western country, probably the U.S. and are very uncomfortable with the idea that you might have to change or learn new stuff to sustain your quality of life, but this is a reality. You couldn't have missed the
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
So the offshore tech workers employed by US companies can buy US software at an offshore price, while the US tech workers lose their job and still have to pay the US price.
"We're not hiring but since you're here, would you like to buy something?"
Once upon a time there was a DOS user who saw Unix, and saw that it was
good. After typing cp on his DOS machine at home, he downloaded GNU's
unix tools ported to DOS and installed them. He rm'd, cp'd, and mv'd
happily for many days, and upon finding elvis, he vi'd and was happy. After
a long day at work (on a Unix box) he came home, started editing a file,
and couldn't figure out why he couldn't suspend vi (w/ ctrl-z) to do
a compile.
-- Erik Troan, ewt@tipper.oit.unc.edu
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...