"Wrong again...it was a joke, as was the whole episode, that pretended the Simpsons were actors. "But don't believe me. Observe this commerical!""
You guys fell for an interesting joke. They changed the state several times depending on when and where it was aired. I had a feeling it would spur debates like this.
"They guy has to copy 30 machines and wants to do it in a hurry..
He wanted to do it faster than reinstalling everything one by one.
"You come along and suggest that he try some experiments that MIGHT work"
Yes, it's called a theory. He's got the setup to try it out, I don't. Keeping it to myself would have added absolutely nothing.
"In any event, I can't see why anyone would post a suggestion they haven't already tried."
I've used the software to do related tasks, but not that one in particular. I did the right thing by giving him plenty of warning that he shouldn't go full speed into it without trying it first. I also provided an opportunity for other people to come by and say "It will work" or "It won't work." In other words, I contributed, and I did so safely.
"It almost seems like the Microsoft people are a bit embarrassed by the limitations of their product of choice... as I supposed they should be. "
Cute. The real reason I was cautious is that OS's and installation procedures are complex sometimes. You never know where they hide important bits. You'd have exactly this concern with Linux or OSX too. A problem that has arisen from not catching everything a program needs may not surface for weeks. Then, you've found that the problem is replicated everywhere.
"I'd probably use the dd method mentioned several times already if I had it to do over again."
I don't see why anybody'd suggest something they've never tried before.
"My guess is that Microsoft doesn't make this easier because it would make pirating easier too. "
Maybe, but not completely. It would be very difficult to support Windows if you could just pick it up and plop it onto a new machine without going through the installation process. Microsoft didn't design it this way. Well, they sort of did. I moved a hard-drive to another machine once and it booted, even updated its drivers etc with no problem. But, when I did something similar from a single cpu machine to a dual, Windows almost completely booted before it stopped cold. Microsoft could fix this, they could make the OS more portable, but it's a lot of effort and testing that yields a not so interesting results. Their view would be "why move when they can reinstall, the tried and true way?" Just to be clear, I don't agree or promote MS's view here, just trying to shed some light on their PoV.
"Microsoft supplies no method of backing up and restoring fully operational copies of Windows 2000 and Windows XP. "
Mostly true, but not entirely. NTBackup.exe will save your system state (registry, drivers, etc) plus you can backup Program Files and Documents and Settings etc too. In theory (meaning: I've never done this) you could do one install of Windows, install your apps, then use NTBackup to save your system state and your Program Files/Docs and Sets folders. Then, you could go to the other machines, first do a vanilla install of Windows, copy the.BKF file to each machine, and use it to extract the system state and program files into the right spot.
I will say again I have never done specifically this. but I have saved a mucked up registry using this techique before. In your position, it's a method I'd explore. Expect limitations. For example, I don't know if XP'll shit itself over it's activation process. I suggest this as a direction to explore, not as a solution I'd stand behind.
Oh, one other thing, XP doesn't install NTBackup.exe by default, you have to extract it from the XP CD. Google has plenty of help here.
"What if an angry country figures out a way to fire a missile up there?"
Global power was knocked out this evening when some maniacle madman carved the letters "CHA" into the surface of the moon. It's unclear what the significance of CHA is, or that the intention was to wipe out the Power Generation Facility, located at the tip of the A.
"anonymous coward us and tell us what the hell is going on up there?"
I work for SCO and just yesterday I got a chance to peek in to Darl McBride's office. He was having a video chat with Michael Eisner. I only caught part of the conversation, but Eisner was laughing really really hard. Something about '100 trillion dollars?!'
Yes. We do tag team people once in a while, though. In this particular case, I got an ICQ message from him saying "look what I was modded as troll for." So I came to try to smooth things out a bit. I don't think he realizes that he sounded like a troll.
"2. Do you and NanoGator ever actually do anything on/. besides flame people who praise/recommend Linux (even jokingly)?"
NanoGator's the posting whore. He posts on a variety of stuff, sometimes sends me links to it. I don't post much anymore, when I do it's usually because there's a point to be made. (or sometimes I have a joke to crack.:P) I personally am frustrated with Linux because I was suckered in by the hype about it here and found it rather disappointing. My main concern is that the aggressive zealosy towards Linux will lead to an unravelling of its user base. One day, it could be, from a usability standpoint, as good as or better than Windows. But unless some harsh realities are understood, it ain't going to happen. Microsoft's leading this parade, and Linux is trying akwardly to keep up. I don't see it getting ahead unless Microsoft trips up badly. As we have seen recently with the Blaster Worm, Microsoft is quite resilient to slipups.
I wouldn't say that all I do is flame people. Frankly, I'm baffled as to how you can read my comment that you're replying to as flaming. I thought my point was rather diplomatic. I took extra care to do that.
It's not all I do, but lately Slashdot hasn't been interesting enough to be insightful about. Frankly, I'm tired of people arguing with me just to argue. I want to be understood, not a guest on Crossfire.
"i agree with that, but if you stand behind it why be so critical of the recomendation ? "
For two reasons:
1.) The solution is extreme.
2.) The way it was presented.
I think if instead of saying "Linux" like a karma whore, he could have said "Maybe you should consider switching to an OS where you have much tigther control over what can and cannot be done."
"but when it is a viable option it WILL get pointed out to be just that"
I agree with that. There's a difference when it really is a whole solution. The reason for my nitpick is that desktop computers are a very wide and varied tool. So much so that no OS is the answer for everybody.
"Yay! I can stop viruses and render all my games useless! All that, and I still get the privledge of installing patches regularly. Sign me up!"
Heh. Sarcasm aside, NG's got a point. Switching OS's to solve one problem will eventually lead to new problems opening up. I know lot of you would marry Linux given the choice, but the dude wants a simple solution to the particular problem, not a solution that'll be painful for him. If you tell him to switch so he can avoid viruses, then EVERY little problem Linux has will turn into reasons not to use it. As NG pointed out, your games stop working. (Well that's not really true, you can get a lot of Windows games working in Linux, but without trying it first hand I'm not sure how far I'd trust it.) If Linux doesn't have an app (or he can't find it) and he can't do something he could once do in Windows, he's going to turn around and say "why'd I even switch in the first place? All I wanted was an f'in virus scanner!"
Long story short, don't shout Linux every time a Windows user wants to fix a problem. Unless things go just right, you risk making them a Windows user forever. That's what happened to me. Everybody shouted at me about how great Linux is, didn't take me long to go back to Windows 2000. (I do plan on trying again in a year or so.)
"Apple, of course, is completely the opposite, and one of the reasons people buy things like the ipod is the great design (aesthetic, ergonomic, and otherwise)."
I seem to recall Apple's 17" laptop having a fairly weak screen that can break during normal use. Shall we assume that both Apple and Microsoft suck at hardware, or should we assume that sometimes things they both make don't turn out so great?
"It would be like Ford saying they are going to build all their cars with carbon-fibre, it may be cool for some of their cars, but I wouldn't want to drive an F-150 made of the stuff. "
Assuming I understand NG's point correctly, it'd be more like "all cars have 4 tires, a steering wheel, windshield wipers, gas/brake/clutch pedals, and seatbelts." I mostly agree with NG, I think standardizing on some things would be of enormous benefit to linux. I think you are right in the sense that each distro should have free reign to focus on what it finds interesting.
The middle goal here is for each distro to have a long-term plan. Although, I'm not sure it'd quite work like that. It'd mean some apps get splintered in ugly ways, like KDE for example. Hmm I'd have to think about that a little more. I don't think the decentralized nature of linux can support an effort like that. I think you're right, an attempt like that would be chaotic.
Slashdot Mirror
"Not a threat, something that, once taken over, allows them to control what you see on the internet."
And so Microsoft is pulling SCO's strings to take control of the internet side of the media in order to...?
If Microsoft really reached this far to deal with competition, it would be hemmoraging money. I hope you all realize that at some point.
"Wrong again...it was a joke, as was the whole episode, that pretended the Simpsons were actors. "But don't believe me. Observe this commerical!""
You guys fell for an interesting joke. They changed the state several times depending on when and where it was aired. I had a feeling it would spur debates like this.
I, for one, welcome Stewie, our new overlord.
Oh.. wait.. Blast I quoted the wrong show.
"They guy has to copy 30 machines and wants to do it in a hurry..
He wanted to do it faster than reinstalling everything one by one.
"You come along and suggest that he try some experiments that MIGHT work"
Yes, it's called a theory. He's got the setup to try it out, I don't. Keeping it to myself would have added absolutely nothing.
"In any event, I can't see why anyone would post a suggestion they haven't already tried."
I've used the software to do related tasks, but not that one in particular. I did the right thing by giving him plenty of warning that he shouldn't go full speed into it without trying it first. I also provided an opportunity for other people to come by and say "It will work" or "It won't work." In other words, I contributed, and I did so safely.
"It almost seems like the Microsoft people are a bit embarrassed by the limitations of their product of choice... as I supposed they should be.
"
Cute. The real reason I was cautious is that OS's and installation procedures are complex sometimes. You never know where they hide important bits. You'd have exactly this concern with Linux or OSX too. A problem that has arisen from not catching everything a program needs may not surface for weeks. Then, you've found that the problem is replicated everywhere.
"I'd probably use the dd method mentioned several times already if I had it to do over again."
I don't see why anybody'd suggest something they've never tried before.
"My guess is that Microsoft doesn't make this easier because it would make pirating easier too. "
Maybe, but not completely. It would be very difficult to support Windows if you could just pick it up and plop it onto a new machine without going through the installation process. Microsoft didn't design it this way. Well, they sort of did. I moved a hard-drive to another machine once and it booted, even updated its drivers etc with no problem. But, when I did something similar from a single cpu machine to a dual, Windows almost completely booted before it stopped cold. Microsoft could fix this, they could make the OS more portable, but it's a lot of effort and testing that yields a not so interesting results. Their view would be "why move when they can reinstall, the tried and true way?" Just to be clear, I don't agree or promote MS's view here, just trying to shed some light on their PoV.
Funny?!
Trying to help the guy here. I also don't wanna stake my reptuation on how well Microsoft made their backup software.
"Microsoft supplies no method of backing up and restoring fully operational copies of Windows 2000 and Windows XP. "
.BKF file to each machine, and use it to extract the system state and program files into the right spot.
Mostly true, but not entirely. NTBackup.exe will save your system state (registry, drivers, etc) plus you can backup Program Files and Documents and Settings etc too. In theory (meaning: I've never done this) you could do one install of Windows, install your apps, then use NTBackup to save your system state and your Program Files/Docs and Sets folders. Then, you could go to the other machines, first do a vanilla install of Windows, copy the
I will say again I have never done specifically this. but I have saved a mucked up registry using this techique before. In your position, it's a method I'd explore. Expect limitations. For example, I don't know if XP'll shit itself over it's activation process. I suggest this as a direction to explore, not as a solution I'd stand behind.
Oh, one other thing, XP doesn't install NTBackup.exe by default, you have to extract it from the XP CD. Google has plenty of help here.
... then I nominate Holly.
Heh.
I think that's the first time anybody's ever mixed up a Tick and a Red Dwarf reference.
"What if an angry country figures out a way to fire a missile up there?"
Global power was knocked out this evening when some maniacle madman carved the letters "CHA" into the surface of the moon. It's unclear what the significance of CHA is, or that the intention was to wipe out the Power Generation Facility, located at the tip of the A.
"anonymous coward us and tell us what the hell is going on up there?"
I work for SCO and just yesterday I got a chance to peek in to Darl McBride's office. He was having a video chat with Michael Eisner. I only caught part of the conversation, but Eisner was laughing really really hard. Something about '100 trillion dollars?!'
"pls explain to me how this was modded as +5?"
He was modded up so we can all laugh at him.
"There, had to say it."
No, you didn't. What you had to say was "What's the I in CGI stand for?
"1. Are you and NanoGator different people? "
/. besides flame people who praise/recommend Linux (even jokingly)?"
:P) I personally am frustrated with Linux because I was suckered in by the hype about it here and found it rather disappointing. My main concern is that
Yes. We do tag team people once in a while, though. In this particular case, I got an ICQ message from him saying "look what I was modded as troll for." So I came to try to smooth things out a bit. I don't think he realizes that he sounded like a troll.
"2. Do you and NanoGator ever actually do anything on
NanoGator's the posting whore. He posts on a variety of stuff, sometimes sends me links to it. I don't post much anymore, when I do it's usually because there's a point to be made. (or sometimes I have a joke to crack.
the aggressive zealosy towards Linux will lead to an unravelling of its user base. One day, it could be, from a usability standpoint, as good as or better than Windows. But unless some harsh realities are understood, it ain't going to happen. Microsoft's leading this parade, and Linux is trying akwardly to keep up. I don't see it getting ahead unless Microsoft trips up badly. As we have seen recently with the Blaster Worm, Microsoft is quite resilient to slipups.
I wouldn't say that all I do is flame people. Frankly, I'm baffled as to how you can read my comment that you're replying to as flaming. I thought my point was rather diplomatic. I took extra care to do that.
It's not all I do, but lately Slashdot hasn't been interesting enough to be insightful about. Frankly, I'm tired of people arguing with me just to argue. I want to be understood, not a guest on Crossfire.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
:)
Have a good evening.
"i agree with that, but if you stand behind it why be so critical of the recomendation ?
"
For two reasons:
1.) The solution is extreme.
2.) The way it was presented.
I think if instead of saying "Linux" like a karma whore, he could have said "Maybe you should consider switching to an OS where you have much tigther control over what can and cannot be done."
That sort of make sense?
"but when it is a viable option it WILL get pointed out to be just that"
I agree with that. There's a difference when it really is a whole solution. The reason for my nitpick is that desktop computers are a very wide and varied tool. So much so that no OS is the answer for everybody.
Hmm I've talked this to death.
"Yay! I can stop viruses and render all my games useless! All that, and I still get the privledge of installing patches regularly. Sign me up!"
Heh. Sarcasm aside, NG's got a point. Switching OS's to solve one problem will eventually lead to new problems opening up. I know lot of you would marry Linux given the choice, but the dude wants a simple solution to the particular problem, not a solution that'll be painful for him. If you tell him to switch so he can avoid viruses, then EVERY little problem Linux has will turn into reasons not to use it. As NG pointed out, your games stop working. (Well that's not really true, you can get a lot of Windows games working in Linux, but without trying it first hand I'm not sure how far I'd trust it.) If Linux doesn't have an app (or he can't find it) and he can't do something he could once do in Windows, he's going to turn around and say "why'd I even switch in the first place? All I wanted was an f'in virus scanner!"
Long story short, don't shout Linux every time a Windows user wants to fix a problem. Unless things go just right, you risk making them a Windows user forever. That's what happened to me. Everybody shouted at me about how great Linux is, didn't take me long to go back to Windows 2000. (I do plan on trying again in a year or so.)
Yep, you're right. Sorry about that.
:)"
"Why this is in a discussion about quantum computing, I'm not sure.
It started over a bad joke about the dynamic deadlines of quantum computers, Duke Nukem Forever, and Nintendo game consoles. Heh.
"I'm a gamer, and I will *never* use a Mac for gaming again."
I never will either. Well really I can't, but still.
"I predict Duke Nukem Forever will be a launch title for the Nintendo Game Qubit."
:)
Wow. Not many people can burn Nintendo and Id Software at the same time about their legendary delays. Kudos.
"Apple, of course, is completely the opposite, and one of the reasons people buy things like the ipod is the great design (aesthetic, ergonomic, and otherwise)."
I seem to recall Apple's 17" laptop having a fairly weak screen that can break during normal use. Shall we assume that both Apple and Microsoft suck at hardware, or should we assume that sometimes things they both make don't turn out so great?
"It would be like Ford saying they are going to build all their cars with carbon-fibre, it may be cool for some of their cars, but I wouldn't want to drive an F-150 made of the stuff. "
Assuming I understand NG's point correctly, it'd be more like "all cars have 4 tires, a steering wheel, windshield wipers, gas/brake/clutch pedals, and seatbelts." I mostly agree with NG, I think standardizing on some things would be of enormous benefit to linux. I think you are right in the sense that each distro should have free reign to focus on what it finds interesting.
The middle goal here is for each distro to have a long-term plan. Although, I'm not sure it'd quite work like that. It'd mean some apps get splintered in ugly ways, like KDE for example. Hmm I'd have to think about that a little more. I don't think the decentralized nature of linux can support an effort like that. I think you're right, an attempt like that would be chaotic.
Troll? Oh please. Man, if you guys can't take a little Linux ribbing, then maybe you shouldn't mod up Windows jokes.
Heh. Too bad he gave up, I could have given him a few pointers.
"hahahahahahah!! PENCIL DICK! what a loser.... PENCIL DICK"
Bet you can't say "My dick gets harder than diamond man!"