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Microsoft Officially Shows Longhorn, WinFX
Theaetetus writes "Microsoft today unveiled its most detailed look yet at its new OS, Longhorn, due in 2006, during Bill Gates' keynote speech at the company's Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles. An article at Internet Week describes some of the goals: avoiding viruses, worms, and 'building apps that are as smart as Outlook.'" The company "also unveiled 'WinFX,' which it described as a new application programming model for Windows that is the evolution of its .NET programming framework."
"building apps that are as smart as Outlook."
I was hoping they'd shoot higher than that.
...will WinFX become known as "F**cks"?
Does this mean .Net is obsolete??
Please, no flames about ".Net sucks" or ".Net was never blah blah blah".
Hmmm. Not many people are purchasing Office '03, and they're not releasing their next OS until '06. Wonder if their cash reserve will sustain them for three years?
The company "also unveiled 'WinFX,' which it described as a new application programming model for Windows that is the evolution of its .NET programming framework.
.Net rewrite was just getting underway!
GEEZ! Just when the
Ok, so they've taken over the bottom of the screen with their explorer bar, now they're taking over the righthand side to show off stock reports? A few more years of this, there won't be any room left on the screen for apps.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Mod Bill Gates up +1, ROTFLMAO!
"During Gates' address, a Microsoft staffer gave a demonstration of Longhorn, highlighting among other features the "sidebar," an area on the right side of the screen capable of dynamically displaying messaging lists, stock quotes, news feeds, times and pictures."
:-/
Can't you do that with kappdoc....???
I'd like to see some screenshots of this 'new interface'.
The article rambles on a lot, but doesn't actually tell you anything. And..well.. I've never really tried it, but is Outlook that amazing
Bored? http://www.dodgybloke.co.uk
These announcements are nothing more than vague future directions...
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
At least they'll be able to meet it. Outlook is already the lower layer of scum in the scpetic tank, after all. Can't get much worse.
Yes, the FX comes from effects, I can buy that on a video card (going for video effects) but how does that tie in to an application framework?
those article are a bit light on specifics. Anyone have more details than the usual PR articles rehashed by the mainstream news sources? The only note worthy is MS Is pushing to have everything written in C#, so they can reduce bugs/vulnerabilities and so on.
I highly doubt that Longhorn will introduce anything really new to the OS world, (even after reading the articles) considering that Panther has already accomplished this idea of file organization for the Mac world and it's probably been done for 'nix too.
There is only one satisfying way to boot a computer. -- J. H. Goldfuss
" The company also unveiled "WinFX," which it described as a new application programing model for Windows that is the evolution of its .NET programing framework."
.NET messes.
Seriously, what the hell does that mean? It seems like it's something they've thrown together lately to patch up any
[alk]
My God. Force me to click through a prompt or something, but don't just tease me with an attachment's presence and then say that I can do nothing with it.
See this post.
So ".NET" hasn't even really hit the ground running yet, and already it's sucessor is being announced? Too bad the Osborne curse never seems to affect MS when they do the same things that Osborne did.
So. Someone please tell me the longhorn screenshots out in the last couple of days were fake. I've had fucking Apple centric gits online ribbing me for windows copying the brushed metal look. I reckon they're fake... any backup anyone?
building apps that are easier to use than Outlook.
Apple has it right, they build incredibly intelligent apps, with a minimalistic approach to user interface that has only the options people want. The result is that the apps are very easy to use and they look pretty to boot.
Do yourself a favor, switch to Mac now, you won't regret it. You'll have a easy to use desktop system with strong UNIX underpinnings. Plus, three years between OS releases is a long enough time to significantly erode Microsofts market share.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
"We need your feedback. We need your involvement to get this right."
Go open-source !!
An article at Internet Week describes some of the goals: avoiding viruses, worms, and 'building apps that are as smart as Outlook.
...)
One of these 3 goals says much about the level of innovation Microsoft is capable of. Can you find which one?
(the two others too in fact, they should have been met a long time ago really. Oh well, I guess I'll just stay with Linux for now
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Considering that longhorn won't be out until 2005^h6^h7, this sounds like a last-ditch attempt to stem the tide of small enterprise businesses which are rapidly switching to linux. Unless MS can show off some new functionality that can help the bottom line, their days are numbered.
the most detailed look of Langhorn I've got so far here. Yeah it's the whole thing, and you're welcome.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
1. avoid viruses
2. avoid worms
3. as smart as outlook.
Pick any two as long as you don't pick 3.
Every time my Outlook crashes, it just starts itself right back up again! It starts itself up several times each day! All by itself!!!
--
Slashdolt
Well Microsoft is making a big point saying that security is their top priority. The closest they came to anything security related was "addressing problems with viruses and worms." Hopefully it will be something more than a half-assed virus scanner. If it isn't halfway decent, people will blindly believe that it will be enough.
Let's hope Microsoft also does things we have been suggesting for who knows how long: firewall enabled by default, etc. Oh, and go through your OS and disable useless things such as Windows Messenger! Yes, it might hurt Microsoft's feelings if they read Slashdot for 5 minutes but who knows, they might actually get something useful out of it!
The goals of this OS seems pretty much the same as the last one. The productivity gains of having a "sidebar" are probably the same as the MSN website sidebar, which is kinda like having a billboard blinking outside your bedroom window all night : a distraction.
An XM-based FS is going to be a meta-data nightmare, with more churning than one thought possible. The pagefile size will need to be quite large to cache all that crap. But they'll use the extra-speedy Intels to compress is on the fly anyway.
Most of *any* speech recognition is going to be from research done on [cough] *nix machines of the past decade.
Revamping the graphics system is just what the DirectX doctor ordered: new APIs! Everything can be antialiased, from busy dancing icons to cursors to controls. yawn.
By keeping everyone busy adopting the new platform, form ignores function and we get the same stuff in a new box. I hope they keep pushing it out. Then again, we're talking about people who confuse an OS with their desktop images.
mug
Internet Week describes some of the goals: avoiding viruses, worms, and 'building apps that are as smart as Outlook.'
Insert obvious joke here.
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
Thanks to posters like you, I don't even NEED to RTFA!
No irony, no sarcasm intended.
With a 2006 time frame, (like Windows '95 '98, NT, Cairo etcetera Mr. Gates?) M$ insures that nobody's going to take this seriously. Do they think people use an M$ memory manager in their brain? It'll take three tries again to get their act together and by that time...)
Too many people got burned with vapor-ware and later-ware. Two or three years is too long to wait for the other shoe to drop. Only Bill Gates is made out of money. The rest of us have to generate revenue and profits.
I suspect that lots of companies are going to use the time to hone a Unix/OS X/Linux OS closed-source product development and marketing strategy.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And I thought companies were supposed to set themselves high goals...
"A demonstration of WinFS featured a method to "stack" documents by author in a window, with the heights of the stacks corresponding to the number of documents, as well as file views that showed snapshots of documents, rather than just file names."
... In addition to those snapshots posted of Longhorn over the weekend, isn't it a bit odd that Longhorn is essentially using the brushed metal look from OSX 10.3? The only difference being that MS made the grey a bit darker. Kudo's to the MS UI team.
And ten years before this, Apple patented Piles:
"Apple holds a patent on this one. Developed by Gitta Salomon and her team close to a decade ago, a pile is a loose grouping of documents. Its visual representation is an overlay of all the documents within the pile, one on top of the other, rotated to varying degrees. In other words, a pile on the desktop looked just like a pile on your real desktop.
To view the documents within the pile, you clicked on the top of the pile and drew the mouse up the screen. As you did so, one document after another would appear as a thumbnail next to the pile. When you found the one you were looking for, you would release the mouse and the current document would open."
There was a leak earlier this year apparently and here is a review. Review here at http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_alpha .asp
I have a Cig, but do you have a light?
I'm sure you already knew this.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
The magic 8-ball says: "Outlook not so good"
Bart: Wow, it does work!
...just my 2 gil.
"building apps that are as smart as Outlook." I don't know if Outlook or IE is the single most horrible security risk in the history of computers but they are both at least tied for first place. RUN!!!!
Don't worry about it. Many people experience similar hallucinations on psychoactives. Take it easy and try not to get paranoid. A beer or two would help too.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
...so they will be silly enough to do beta-testing for them for free, maybe even give them feedback.
Unless I'm being paid for this, I'd much rather use my time to donate "feedback" and "involvement" to an OSS project.
AC
I am not one of those people who go around professing the evilness of Microsoft. I did, however, come across this logo on news.com.com that does look pretty evil. I doubt that it is official or anything
Evil Logo
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
Why is it that Microsoft has to change the API every time a new version of winblows is released. I mean many APIs surrive for over a decade without going through as many rewrites as MS APIs go through. Take X11 and the NeXT Step APIs, they've evolved and grown but surrived. I'll never understand Microsoft....
Later,
Phil
1) all your PC's are belong to us
2) "we are your overlord" - Led Zeppelin
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Wow... Bill Gates looks like crap.
How old is he again?
do() || do_not();
One of the questions we ask them is, what tools really help you get your job done? What are your favorite technologies at work? First was electronic mail. They loved electronic mail.
I'm glad they invented email -- without it I wouldn't know where to get my viagra and penis enlargers.
Did anyone else read that as "Microsoft Officially Shows Lowerhorn"?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I think a file system that "makes heavy use of XML" probably won't be very efficient...
He is whoring for it. Longhorn torrent
If he really cared for the link he would post as AC like I am now.
> only MS embedded 'programs' like Internet
> Exploder, Outlook, etc.
I like the idea of "Internet Exploder". How's it work?
Microsoft has kitchen sink APIs built on a creaky foundation, but it sure can make no-nothing programmers productive on their platform. I think what they've done with managed code in .Net has been great. None of us will miss COM. If WinFX can bring managed high-level interfaces, it will be cool. I think WinFX is going to give us lots of wiz bang UI with all the nasty and quirky event handling managed. I think we will also get free access to all kinds of distributed and disconnected data, again managed by the runtime platform. I think MS got its first good architecture by stealing java in .NET. When they finally drive all this stuff into the core of their formally shit architecture, they will have done their first good job.
I mean look at Java trying with its "Virtual Machine", it can't do half the things that Outlook can. SURE it can read emails if you write some code, but can those emails infect the machine with a virus and bring down your database servers, email all of your contacts and format your hard-drive.
Outlook is the ULTIMATE application, it is a VIRTUAL OPERATING SYSTEM which is AUTOMATICALLY logged in as the administrator.
What more could you possibly want...
Except threading...
And a SPAM filter...
And not going back to the server to check if emails have changed.
Oh and ideally I'd like it not to hang for 30 seconds just because it can't contact the server while I'm reading or writing an email.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
During Gates' address, a Microsoft staffer gave a demonstration of Longhorn, highlighting among other features the "sidebar," an area on the right side of the screen capable of dynamically displaying messaging lists, stock quotes, news feeds, times and pictures.
is this going to be another one of microsofts 'revolutionary changes' like their amazing creation of symbolic links.. oh wait.. unix had both of these a decade ago..
Initally windows was designed to emulate the look and feel of the mac, and now its being redesigned to emulate the look and feel of xwindows+a decent window manager?
Well, we do live in a world where all the orgina ideas have been used, dont we?
Welcome to the End
You have our commiserations.
C'mon. Stainless steel, brushed metal, etc. have been the rave in *everything* for the past 5 years or so. To insinuate MS stole it from Apple is ludicrous. Might as well say Apple stole it from Amana, as I have had my brushed metal refrigerator since well before OSX 10.3 was released. Next thing you know, you'll be claiming MS stole the color blue from IBM.
Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
Wow, based on that, I'd put Longhorn up there with ebola in the "must have" category.
I don't know, but it works for me.
Talk about being 5 years behind the curve.
It shows the arrogance and presumption that in 2006 they'll be introducing this to the masses as if they are innovations, when OS X and Linux, etc., have it today.
This is just like the other 200 articles that have been posted here as of late... very very skimpy on details.... the closest i've ever come to a reasonable amount of information on Longhorn is via the supersite.. I would encourage anyone who's actually interested in seeing what's currently known about Longhorn to vist that site.
You can get an equivalent application to almost any other app on another OS for Linux and Mac, so switching is definitely a possibility to consider. However the one thing that will keep me a PC user for all time (most likely) is that the support for games on the Windows platform completely eclipses both Mac and Linux support.
It's a sad thing to me, because I'd really like to get away from Microsoft.
Microsoft Bob, anyone?
HJ
The Mini Repository - more links
The WinFX announcement confirms something that I had suspected for quite a while, and that is that .NET was meant to be a replacement for the Win32 API. Win32 is the "familiar" application framework for Windows, but as many have noted (and most Win32 developers know), it is a complicated, cumbersome beast. Give me a choice between Win32 and raw Xlib and I'd take Xlib, thank you very much (but Win32 is a full blown C API with windowing functions just one of many facets, so don't read into this comparison too much.)
Anyway, Win32 is implemented as one of many subsystems on NT and all its successor operating systems. .NET, and now WinFX, are/will be implemented in the same way, as just another set of APIs. But this is significant, because Microsoft hasn't done this just for kicks. I believe they are on the way to offing Win32. Why?
1) It's 32-bit, and the IA32/x86 market has its days numbered now. Honestly, not many of us need 64-bit computing, but at some point, killer apps will appear. As we all know, Microsoft's preferred method of forcing an OS "upgrade" down people's throats is bundling it with hardware. Aha.
2) It's not portable. This ties into the first point, but why might Microsoft be interested in portability? I don't just mean hardware, I'm talking about OS portability. Microsoft wants a contingency in case Windows (NT/2000/XP/2003/Longhorn...) finds itself becoming a legacy system (I think it already is, but that's just my opinion.) Maybe it's finally dawned on Microsoft that a VMS-based kernel with heavy process invocation fees isn't going to be able to win benchmarks while Linux keeps getting faster and better. Microsoft is only winning server benchmarks by virtue of building their SMB/CIFS and HTTP daemons into the kernel, you know. Who cares about stability? Benchmarks sell software to IT-ignorant PHBs.
3) Win32 is messy, and most Windows C(++) programmers avoid using Win32 directly at all costs (that's what MFC and ATL are for). Microsoft likes DRM, and DRM requires kernel/subsystem-level API calls. Likewise DirectX, which Microsoft is truly investing in; they know multimedia is their strong point and that the enterprise server market is something they can never corner. SMEs running VB apps using MS SQL, maybe, but not Fortune 500. So, they want a framework that is as "open" and "powerful" as Microsoft believes it can be, without opening up the source, of course.
So... whew. There you go.
"I am root. Bow before me." To this I say, "You are root, and you bear the sins of the world upon your shoulders."
A sidebar that displays all sorts of "useful" data like stock quotes? Why am I getting Active Desktop flashbacks. At least it's probably not push driven.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Although I am not a big fan of Microsoft (I quess like many other readers of /.) I hope this new Longhorn edition will turn out to be a improvement over the existing versions. You might wonder why I say this since I am a happy Linux user for more than 6 years now. In all these 6 years I had a small remote area of my HD dedicated to a Windows installation. Why? Because I still cannot do without Windows. There's always a friend/relative/co-worker/fellow student sending you MS Office documents or whatsoever, for which you need the appropiate MS program to view the document correctly (I know OpenOffice.org is doing a great job the last years, but still). Or another project using Visual Studio you have to work on with fellow students.... there are numerous examples for which you have to boot to Windows every now and then. What is the correct number, was it 90 or 95% of the computers using Windows?
So since I have to use Windows, albeit not very frequently, it better be good piece of software!
Yeah, M$ and their minions are rather silly and their marketing people tend to confuse things by giving slight variations on the same thing different names (OLE to COM to COM+ to .NET), but hey, whose marketing people don't?
I think our natural enemy isn't M$ marketing, but marketing in general. There's this programming language called Java and Scott's minions decided to call the Java 1.2 SDK Java 2. (Interesting that I'm certified as a Java 2 programmer and the most recent SDK is 1.4.2. Does this mean that I'm a time traveller?)
My point is that everybody ships products with confusing new names in order to generate the kind of hype incrementing a version number just can't. Microsoft may be better at it, but everybody does it. If the marketing department at your company doesn't infuriate you on a daily basis or occasionally make slightly false claims about your product line, they're not doing their jobs.
There is a line, however, where the normal murkiness of marketing spin becomes pure evil and that line is crossed most frequently by the minions of Larry Ellison. Anybody remember the "Unbreakable" campaign? Nothing is unbreakable. Not even the most hardcore Linux zealot wouldn't have the gall to say something like that.
Even Apache spins. I've read some Jakarta project overviews that read like a cross between page 5 of the Windows Getting Started booklet and The Celestine Prophecy.
The point of my rambling post is that even our employers or companies whose technology we actually like are guilty of the same marketing spin. It's part of the world we live in, kiddies. Some people use their marketing spin for good, some for evil. The moral of the story is that even though Microsoft marketing people are dirty liars, Oracle marketing people are filthy lice infested dirty liars.
I bid you all good health and a pleasant afternoon.
Hmmm...Michael Dell went to Univ. of Texas, the home of the UT Longhorns.
I know I'm going to get slammed -5 redundant, but there are just so many things wrong with that statement.
Unless you are an MS zealot, the Outlook program was among the worst examples of a computer program. It was slow to start. It did a few different tasks, and it did them marginally. It took forever to shut down. It hogged resources so the whole system bogged down. It was dreadful!
This part is a bit off-topic, but back when I still used Windows, I recall installing Office, and it was an imparative to custom install only Word, Excel, Access, and Power Point. The default office install was a sure fire way to suck the life out of any PC.
BTW: Did anyone notice that the new Explorer looks suspiciously like a Mozilla skin?
Um,
NO.
I wonder what sort of 'optimizations' we'll find in their code.
So since they are already working on WinFX, those additions to .Net have already been proposed to the standards puppets, er, bodies - right?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Having read about Gates' describing Longhorn and then reading the OSDL announcement of Linux-2.6.0-test9 ready for big tests, I couldn't help noticing some differences in style.
Longhorn addresses some OS issues, but other parts of the press release talk about issues that would seem to me to belong at a higher level in the application area.
The first objective is great, the second and third are tolerable, and the last one makes little sense for an operating system. It's like an excuse to define a new technology because you own an old one.
andThe OSDL release announcement has much more of ringing tone of desperation:
"Provided by the management for your protection."
What's the long-term plan on the Linux side? Is KDE going to incorporate some of the features of Longhorn (like true 3D desktops)? Is Linux going to stick with its hierarchial filename system or is it going to use a database-type system?
Does anyone know of the 5-year plan for GNU/Linux and KDE in particular?
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
It looks like Microsoft is already playing catch-up with Linux in some respects. The "sidebar"? What about Windowmaker's dock apps? What about gkrellm? What about the various panel apps for Gnome and KDE? I haven't seen any details about the WinFS file system, but I'm betting that whatever Microsoft comes up with could easily be done with some combination of MySQL, OpenOffice.org's document architecture, a pretty GUI and some glue to hold it all together. (It's an obvious point, but in case anyone has forgotten, developers have choices choices choices with open source: the GUI could be motif, Tcl/Tk, GTK, Qt, OpenGL,
In brief, unless Microsoft has a huge ace up their sleeve, whatever they want to do or come up with has already been done or can be done quite quickly with the enormous, comprehensive open source infrastructure that is available today.
Check out this eWeek Oped
Like looking at a new show car, I want this thing; I also realize that until we see the beta, we won't see any of the negatives associated with it. I know the market is substantially antsier than I am, and three years is an incredibly long time to wait. Of course, there was plenty of warning for Windows 95 as well, and it still took out OS/2 and the then-Mac OS. Were Longhorn to come out this year or next, it would bury Linux and the Mac. But with three years' lead time, this is a horse race--and it's one from which the computer buyer will profit no matter who wins.
There's a poll on the right sidebar, it's already 85% switching to linux/mac, let's unbalance it more!
These are all from the PDC build (#4051) of Longhorn:
Gallery 1
Gallery 2
Gallery 3
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Am I the only one who finds it frightening that MS is going to offer a beta of a service pack? (Notwithstanding all the arguments stating all MS software is in a perpetual state of beta, anyway. :) )
When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the dwarves began to suspect Hungry.
"as well as file views that showed snapshots of documents, rather than just file names."
Doesn't seem like a mentionable feature to me.
"Jealousy has driven more mistakes by my competitors than anything else," Gates said. "When people focus not on the next breakthrough, but on cutting off Microsoft, it's actually been quite a windfall for us."
"Sufferin' succotash."
fap fap fap!
> A demonstration of WinFS ... ... as well as file
> views that showed snapshots of documents, rather
> than just file names.
Thats straight out of Konqueror file manager and Nautilus. i wonder where the OSS projects got the idea from.
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
Bill Gates just made the Adam Osborne mistake. He announced "WinFX", whatever that is, as the improvement to
Adam Osborne's company made an early personal computer. Adam announced a new model long before it was ready. Sales stopped because everyone wanted to wait for the new model. Adam's company went bankrupt.
It was amazing watching the bankrupting of the company on TV at the time. Osborne's company went from being one of the fastest growing to having insufficient money for operations in about two months.
It was a sobering lesson. Computer companies sometimes die extremely fast. Novell, WordPerfect, Corel, Fifth Generation Systems, and Central Point are examples. There are many others.
Microsoft has not been managed well. The company survives and profits because of having a virtual monopoly on operating systems and on office suite file formats. Think about it, suppose someone had a monopoly on water. That person could soon be much richer than Bill Gates.
For most businesses, the free Open Office is all they need. There are significant benefits to Open Office. It is much less quirky than Microsoft Office, for example. Most people are not very observant about the software they use, and they hardly notice the difference between Microsoft Word and the Open Office word processor.
Right now, many businesses use software that runs only under Microsoft Windows. However, there are many desktops that only need software that is already available for Linux. Those can benefit from the increased stability of Linux.
People don't care about the cost of Windows. The cost is only a few dollars of the cost of the computers they buy. The biggest issue against Microsoft is its adversarial behavior toward its customers. Using Linux means never having to say "My operating system company is partly my enemy."
Microsoft is on the way down. Most people don't realize that yet, however. Microsoft is one of the biggest management failures the world has ever seen. If the company could make a few changes in its behavior, it could stay profitable. However, it seems that abusiveness is more important to Microsoft than money.
Note that WinFX is someone else's trademark. WinFX is the most cracked and cheated program I have ever seen. There are 50 times as many links to cheats as there are to the product!
Microsoft has scheduled an MSDN TV program about "WinFX" for November 6 (Subject to change by Microsoft, of course.)
Microsoft claims that WinFX is their trademark. (The link is to a Google conversion of a
Microsoft has a history of picking inappropriate trademarks. "X" means unknown. It was inappropriate to use the letter X in conjunction with "Xbox" and "ActiveX". Aside from being someone else's trademark, WinFX sounds too trivial for use with an extensive programming product. Traditionally, "FX" has been used to signify "effects".
Smart as Outlook?
:)
We're f*@ked!
Good thing they're not setting the bar too high. Them cows don't jump so good.
Time to take potshots
George "Baby Face" Nelson: "Cows? I hate cows!"
(Tommy gun sprays lead)
Delmar:"Oh, George...not the live stock!"
Amazing.
.NET; add a few bits.
Sidebars - copied various places including mozilla but many webpages.
Document stacks - isn't this a bruce tognazzi usabliity thing?
Snapshots - well, done that already, expand.
WinFX - rename
SQL filesystem - nice idea; finally go after it.
Office apps like outlook - well, this'll raise the barriers to third parties higher. Only our full integrated solution will work.
Oh and a nice new graphical look of course.
What a stifling, scary monopoly they are.
You forgot down with spelling!
Looks to me like the Cult of the Dead Cow must be involved in developing Longhorn. Maybe that sidebar thingie is just Back Orifice in drag...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
i.e.7 /capt.la10210271848.microsoft_longhorn_la102.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/2003102
<end/>
You sound like a fucking looser hippie. Get it through your head. Nothing in life is free or fair. That's the way it is, ever was and ever shall be. Get over it. You fuckers think life has to be fair, but it's all about who has the most power. If I have more money and more strength than you, then I am deserving of the right to subjugate you. If you were born without the strength or the power, then you have to accept your lot in life. Simply dreaming of a world where things are fair is not helpful as it takes time away from you serving people like me. This is the way of the world. Accept it.
Your Mom automatically swallows jism
The ever-popular "WIMP"
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
avoiding viruses, worms, and 'building apps that are as smart as Outlook.
Does anyone else see the sick irony in that statement? Isn't Outlook the primary method of choice for virii/worm authors?
Oh, nevermind...
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
These are my thoughts exactly... dam bud have you been listening to my phone calls again ?!! but being and old programmer i still find there are some things that are faster when calling Win32..
*--- Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. ---*
DirectX
Mac OS X
ActiveX
WinFX
X
Geforce MX
Xfree86
Xwindows
Win 3.x
XMMS
xterm
Windows XP
Office XP
Xbox
Office X
I recommend a new letter now. N is a nice letter.
2006?
The only reason we're seeing this stuff is to keep people from switching away from Windows. Microsoft is buying time. Their modus-operandi is to show enough stuff to keep people waiting, but I highly doubt they have anything working even in alpha.
In the meantime, the world will keep moving away from the Windows platform back to Unix-centric OSes, especially in the area of cell phones and other portable devices.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
tighter links to the Internet and greater security
Do any of us know what technology is going to look like two to three years down the road?
Hopefully by then, the general user will be more educated either directly or indirectly.
We could nip a lot of these e-mail viruses in the bud if they created an e-mail protocol which was more up to date. Buffer overflows caught by "smart" compilers and software that made my pr0n of Jenna Jameson change on the fly to something more "work" suitable when the boss came around.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just a C++ programmer
I had piles long before apple patented them!
--
http://cheeser.blog-city.com
You forgot down with FUCK!!!!!!
I could have possibly understood what you are trying to say, IF you could actually spell and punctuate properly! What teh hell is "puch on the pubic"??! WTF?!!! Surely you meant to say something their, but it completely missed the point. YHBT, YHL, HAND
1) Managed directX has, at worst, a 10% performance penalty against the exact same C++ code. People are always complaining about how we have an excess of performance in todays' CPUs. This seems like a good use of it to me, thanks to #2:
2) Managed code does not have buffer overflows. How many bugs in Windows and Linux, especially rootable bugs, are a result of a buffer overflow? 50%? 75% 90%? I don't know, but it is a lot. Dotnet code has zero buffer overflows.
3) Managed code avoids DLL hell: the GAC and side-by-side execution ensure that programs will continue to run on versions of libraries that they are designed to support, since minor/major version upgraded files will not be fed to these applications (although revisions still can for bug fixing reasons.) Neither the user nor developer need to even THINK about these issues - the runtime simply takes care of them.
4) Managed code upgrades to 64-bit in a neutral and architecture-independent way. Apps that are "bit neutral" will run on a 32-bit system JIT'd for 32-bit mode, and those same EXACT EXE files will run in 64-bit mode on a 64-bit system, including making use of new registers and other such things. No recompiles - the JIT takes care of it. This also means that much of the code Microsoft writes - mountains of it - to handle all kinds of things from Office to [insert favorite feature here] can be transported across 32/64 bits and architectures. No more Mac version of Office if they want - Abstract any platform-specific calls into one or two classes and have everything else be managed bit-neutral code. Notice that no one is being silly enough to suggest write-once-run-anywhere for useful apps; that is and always was a pipe dream.
I would not doubt that the dotnet runtime on Longhorn is not going to call the Win32 API much; They might just be doing it internally and only using the Executive (NT/2K/XP's kernel native API) when necessary. That would explain part of the time length. Not only do you have to upgrade your existing code to C#/VB.NET/Managed C++/whatever other dotnet language, but you need to rewrite the new runtime to completely rid it of any dependance on the Win32 API. In this way, you also make the runtime a little bit more platform neutral, vs having to convert it from Win32 to Win64 for other platforms. But this is just a guess.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
This is a brilliant marketing move by Microsoft: the commoditization of the desktop. That bar is a freaking billboard, and the only way to connect to it will be Microsoft technology.
Imagine the following scenario, as spun to media providers, such as record companies: the end consumer (that's you, gentle reader) gets a direct broadcast to your Microsoft ProductPlacementBar(tm) that the Band Of The Week has just released a new album. Want to listen to it? Just click the tile. (Don't worry about the music being ripped, Mr. Record Executive, because it's DRM'ed.) Want to purchase it? (Of course you do!) Just click the 'purchase' option to use Microsoft's SecurePaymentSystem (tm).
As a record company executive, wouldn't *you* love to have direct access to such a large market? And you can only get it via Microsoft's Longhorn technology. Hell, you can't afford not to have it. Direct access to the consumers - you can have your own web 'radio' broadcasts, and skip ClearChannel entirely!
So when Longhorn actually comes along, the real functionality isn't applications: it's access to the market. And Microsoft controls both ends.
That's what this beta preview is all about.
I have the power. The power to have your mom nibble my bum. You fucking arsehole!!!!
Everything that gets written for Windows will be .Net code, which is supposed to help prevent developer errors that can lead to unsecure applications, according to Microsoft.
I hope this statement from the Internet Week article is not accurate. That would mean locking out Java and other non dotnet languages.
No data, no cry
There is an optional update from Microsoft, which is more than a year old, that makes executable attachments inaccessible to someone with no technical knowledge. It's a pain really; it goes to far in the opposite direction from too much accessibility.
First we had "X"-Windows then Linux, with the "X" sounding at the end. (Include all the Ecks, Minix, etc.)
Then MacOS"X". Yeah, I know the X is supposed to stand for 10, but everyone calls it OSX (OS-Ecks).
Then we had "XP" with Windows XP, Athlon XP, and any other applicatin wit "XP" in it.
Then we have "MX", as Macromedia "MX".
Now we have "FX" as in nVidia GeForce "FX", Athlon FX, and Win"FX".
Also, let's not forget the Intel Pentium "Ex"treme Edition!!
Umm... can I join in guys? Here's my contribution:
Down with areshole!
The documentation is online now.
Paul Thurrott has some pretty good coverage of PDC going here
can be found at http://weblogs.asp.net/. It's an aggregate of .NET developer blogs, many of whom are at the PDC. Lots of pictures, reviews of speaches/demos/presentations/etc. Worth checking out, I prefer the reviews from in the trenches, like this one or this one, rather than the standard Yahoo/Reuters/media crap.
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Longyawn ?
Did you notice that MS has stop advertisement for the .net platform ?
.net in the advertisement are their IDE !
.net, everybody have heard of it but nobody (i mean non MS-ished) knows what it realy do and don't.
.net you do not have any idea to what it is linked, but "internet" !
.net framework as a complete alternative to Java. Just because they have understood that they are shooting in their own feets ! .net as a separate platform for their applications could have meant endanger their OS domination. Because of this shift, there is a need for a new name.
The only stuff that remain with
MS have a big problem with
Previous MS names were quite powerfull and meanfull : DirectX, ActiveX,... but with
It is clear that MS has already abandon the
MS money commes from user legacy and integration between office and OS. But
And it seems that WinFX fit to this !
Ahhh behold dear readers. This type of announcement takes me back.... in the 80's when there was competition for end users hearts and minds, someone would have a new product, and Microsoft would come trotting out with their vaporware (tentative and pending) with more features that those other guys. Two or three years later, their half finished stuff would appear. That the Linux 2.6 kernel is in late beta and firming up fast, but not released till it's clean and ready and has been tested and tuned (most likely within the next 2 months), Microsoft trots out LONGSHOT (tm) to be ready in about 2 years. ....Takes me back....
And just what browser did you use to post this with you hippie? I doubt it was "fruit and nut clusters" hippie web browser. Get off your high-horse. You use IE just like the rest of us poor sods. Anyone who doesn't is decieving themselves.
a 2006 release of longhorn will provide the window needed to release Cairo. Cairo will be the shit... "Object Oriented" file system, and all the other stuff needed to finally reduce OS/2 to a wimpering pile of 1's and 0's.
You forgot to spell "loser" properly. Get it together shit-for-brains. Perhaps your arsehole is "looser" but I'm not interested in your bedtime proclivities. And oh yeah, fuck you.
If you've migrated completely to WS2003, you're using Exchange 2003 since Exchange 2000 won't run under the new OS. As for Exchange being a piece of shit... why? Take a look at the new Exchange 2003 and the new Outlook Web Access which - at least in my opinion - rocks and is FAST and works under every browser I've tried it on albeit slightly differently under non-IE browsers (but with no loss of functionality). A lot of new stuff has been added or improved between 2000 and 2003... take a gander at it before you bash it. I didn't like Exchange 5.5... Exchange 2000 was better but I really do like 2003.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
Win32 is messy, and most Windows C(++) programmers avoid using Win32 directly at all costs (that's what MFC and ATL are for).
Most Windows C++ programmers I know are happy to deal with the API. Even novice MFC programmers tend to have a good idea of how the API is structured, as MFC is just a fairly simple wrapper mirroring that structure.
It sounds like might have used MFC, but I seriously doubt you've ever touched ATL (A true nightmare for many), which is more geared towards creating COM components and threading environments to run under MTS.
To be fair: Win32 is fairly simple and straightforward compared to a lot of the alternatives. It's a simple C library which has a very simple and consistent structure revolving around Windows objects, making it an OO-Lite type API.
I agree with your reasons to get rid of Win32, but I would hardly call Win32 complicated. (Cumbersome at times, yes, but not complicated)
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
They meet ya before they eat ya...
On a serious note a "developers conference" is a great way to look at M$ roadmap and acquistions for the future. What they can't steal they'll buy and screw you in the end no matter what.
"building apps that are as smart as Outlook.
Too.....many.....jokes!
Would that be ['win-fucks]? As in "Oh no, WinFX up again?"
Most desktop users aren't geeks. Therefore, they might want their stock portfolios - or whatever - visible.
Can't we all just get along.
By the way...fuck all of you.
Now that I can respect.
What should I do about it? My boss with the boobs (Bryanna) has called me into her office in less than five minutes. If I walk in there with this tent pole I don't know what's going to happen! It doesn't help that I'm hung like a hoarse. I've tried several approaches in the past but they've all failed. Whenever I beat off in my cubicle someone almost always finds out. One more time and I'm out the door. I've also tried beating it down with a hammer, but all that does is make it harder and even more blue than usual. But I can't help it. Just the presence of Bryanna in this office makes me horny and I haven't "gotten any" in about 7 years. And even that time was with my pet dog Rover. So I don't know what to do. I'm sure you've all been in the same predicament. What do you do to resolve this sensitive matter?
Apps "as smart as Outlook" would mean that all of us poor hacks outside the MS Gates won't have a chance of producing anything competitive. It will be nearly impossible to create soemthing that has so many failure modes or makes as many often faulty assumptions or provides as many vulneralbilities or has as obfuscated a persistence model.
SIGH. The bar of overpriced incompetence is receeding from my grasp!
I want a standard law, damn it all.
Once and for all, how should we make plurals in English?
THE RULE - you make a word plural by putting "s" on the end, "es" if it already ends in "s"
apple -> apples
virus -> viruses
moose -> mooses
goose -> gooses
fish -> fishs
foot -> foots
tooth -> tooths
house -> houses
mouse -> mouses
What? Don't like saying tooths or mooses? Too bad. A rule is a rule!
While we're at it, I propose we spell everything phonetically from this point forward.
Ther. Nise and simpel. Pleze forward these rulz to evrywon yu no.
For all the work MS is putting into this OS, there is not much that is new and worth upgrading for, even now! The only smart feature I can see is the XML database for files (do I really need stock quotes on my screen, taking up even more room?) Toss in a similar feature in Linux (and some disk encryption layer would be nice for mobile users) and you can beat MS to the punch. Noting the Linux development timeline, if they started now, they would still have it out 2 years ahead of MS.
> Bill Gates just made the Adam Osborne mistake. He
> announced "WinFX", whatever that is, as the improvement
> to
> WinFX, and Microsoft will lose the profits it would have
> had from those who wait.
But unlike Osbourne MS has LOTs and LOTs of cash and
other sources of income.
What longhorn is right now is Freezeware. They are
going to keep hyping it for the next two years. The goal
is to keep people who are on the fence about switching
from doing so. "Look!" (they'll say), "Linux doesn't
have any of these nifty features that are going to
make you so much more productive! (Please ignore the
Mac just to your right, thak you)."
IBM used to do it. MS learned the lesson. Remember the
build up to win 95? NT4? 2000? etc... the hype started
years before anything was released. IIRC win2k was supposed
to have the db based filsystem too. But at some point in 99
they just dropped that feature from the list.
Aside from the fact that Apple are the ones who made the look popular, that point was about 5% of his post, the rest being on the subject of Piles. Anyone who takes one offhand sentance and jumps all over it is a jackass.
Does anyone have some Longhorn screenshot's of Gates' presentation?
Go Gusties
http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
will be pronounced "Win Fix". Alternate pronunciations: "reformat hard disk", "install Linux"
> Um, hello? (Score:0, Flamebait)
/. and the poster is simply injecting a few facts into the discussion... BURN HIM!
Er - flamebait?
Well, I suppose this is
.Net is dead... Long live FX!
Take one in the ass... in yer chocopipe... like you always do.
Talk about taking your eye off the ball.. Longhorn will prove to be Microsoft's Itanic.. The more eggs they put in the Longhorn basket (where's .NET lately? WinFX?) the more they're gonna lose in the end...
That's why I say, YAY LONGHORN!!! Keep distracting the dinosaur while the small mammals get smarter and faster and better...
Microsoft usually releases a patch about 3 months before the viri shows up.
I agree that these flaws should have never been their but I think much of the blame falls on the users.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Umm I think MS is going to have a problem with the stacks thing as apple patented that same thing Like 5 years ago. I like that concept of stacks. Just curious where this will go. Link to apples Patent http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=06243724&idkey =NONE
if you look at the application date of aug 1994 and the patent date of July 2001.
'building apps that are as smart as Outlook.' ...
Nah, I'll pass taking shots at that one. Too easy.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Wow. Someone modded the parent comment "Troll". ???
Bill??? Was that you?
Anyway. Why are they adding yet another desktop bar? It wastes space, it looks ugly, and it's difficult to remove. If they're going to add yet *another* taskbar to the OS, please allow it to be turned off!
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
What does XP stand for in Windows XP? Xtreme Programming? Xtreme Problems? Any ideas?
I'll find yzdock and share it on every p2p network I can find--thanks for the tip.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
... Computer companies sometimes die extremely fast. Novell, ...
Novell is dead? Thats news to me! And I'm sure it comes as quite a shock to the millions of customers still using old proprietary Novell networks! Actually, come to think of it, I started hearing that Novell was dying about 7 or 8 years ago when I last worked in a Novell shop. And as much as I was overjoyed at this thought, it appears that not only are they not dying, it also appears their stock has done pretty well over the last 6 months.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Look up VBS/PeachyPDF@MM
The big news here is that Dr. Evil got himself some kind of new hairdo. Also, the podium is bizarrely formed, indicating that the new Windows technologies are "cutting-edge."
I think Bill should have just gone full-tilt-boogie and gone out wearing parachute pants and a sleeveless New Wave t-shirt. Surely this was on his mind, but he probably didn't have enough brass and backed out at the last moment. Still, I have to give him credit for the haircut.
*shows Fear* Methinks this would be a good time to switch to Linux. Good thing I've been learning it.
The company also unveiled "WinFX," which it described as a new application programing model for Windows that is the evolution of its .NET programing framework.
.NET developers... Now you have to buy a new version of Windows, and a new version of Visual Studio all at an outrageous price! Sorry, but you'll have to rewrite all your code... And, guess what? In a couple of years we, Microsoft, will make you do it all over again! MWAHAHAHA!!!"
Translation: "Well
This is why I use Linux/J2EE.
"It's going to get us away from C-drive computing,"
Gee, people got away from that many years ago, but MSFT just didn't notice.
UNIX and Linux already have a single, unified, global namespace. With mountable WebDAV directories, you can even extend the UNIX/Linux namespace to the web (= simpler, user-mode servers, instead of NFS).
They seek to make apps that are as smart as outlook? That's like saying they seek to make apps that are as safe as the Titanic.
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
Aside from being someone else's trademark, WinFX sounds too trivial for use with an extensive programming product. Traditionally, "FX" has been used to signify "effects".
Considering that I suspect most of the Windows "innovations" to be GFX and SFX effects, like WinXP over Win2000 (there are some others, none of which I use, so the primary thing I noticed was all the layout/theme changes), I don't think the name is all that way off. Particularly how MS has been touting their new DirectX desktop engine.
Why? Because, the "OS" part, which would translate to the kernel, is already very good (been ever since they changed to the NT line), but a) that doesn't sell well to the mass market, at least not over XP home and b) Linux is doing that part damn good. So they throw in every bit of fluff (IE, WMP, MSN, Firewall, Zip, Movie Maker+++) they can.
MS is that car that they keep adding accessories to - more and more come as default. And there's no basic version, it just keeps growing, including more and more obscure ones. While to some degree (apart from the monopoly aspects) it's good, like "everyone" needs a browser, but not taken to extremes. In the end it doesn't help its performance as a car, it's just useless fluff.
I think Microsoft is well aware that the thing that keeps people on Windows is the applications. And it's all about getting people to cycle through as many Windows versions as they can until there's a competitive platform. The new features are mostly to make people accept buying the Windows OS all over again with each new computer...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Apple copies a feature from a crippleware author ....
Like?
The only thing I've heard is that guy that wrote LiteSwitch X. Personally, I think that guy's ego is pretty big to think that the new cmd-tab feature in Panther was taken directly from LiteSwitch X. As other have mentioned, not only does the WinXP app switcher look very close, but many people that have never even seen LiteSwitch X have commented that the new Panther app switcher is exactly how they would have implemented it from scratch. There are only so many ways you can do an app switcher and still make it look good and be useable, so I think this guy from LiteSwitch X is truly just whining.
Aside from that, I haven't heard any major gripes about Apple copying features from crippleware authors. Care to share?
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
First, there was DevStudio (95 or so?).
Then, there was Visual Studio 97.
Then, there was Visual Studio 6.
Gotta love it...only in Microsoftland do version numbers "increase" from 97 to 6!
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Sorry. I was writing my Slashdot comment while I was supposed to be working, and I was a little too abbreviated.
At one time, Novell had 85% of the networking market. Now the company is still profitable, but much, much smaller. Part of the reason for the shrinkage was due to Novell's terrible abusiveness toward the consultants that supported its software. (In my opinion, it was terrible, that is. I still feel bad about the way I was treated.)
Actually, I have been hearing that Novell users are quite happy with its products at present.
If I remember correctly, Novell bought Word Perfect Corporation for $1,150,000,000 (yes, that's more than a billion dollars) and sold it 9 months later to Corel for $850,000,000 less. That is the most expensive single business decision I can remember.
I just put together some new hardware, and was going to install Linux on it. But this looks so cool that I'm going to wait for it...
Good points. However, will some of those who have already struggled through other changes decide that it is easier just to migrate to Linux?
Maybe I'm not expressing this well, but I think Microsoft will lose people from the flock of the faithful. Product-churning may be profitable, but not if people decide they don't want to be churned.
And Reeeeeally? Wow, what huge benefits! And all that from managed code? Who would have guessed! And with a disclaimer too....don't write Java it is a pipe dream. Rewrite everything in: tada! Dot Net. And your apps will run anywhere! Even on Mac (boy am I happy with that, when was that annaocement?) Although be carefull to encapsulate some API calls that wont work on other platforms. Like, uhm, all of the GUI. No, not THAT GUI you are coding now; this new, purty WinFX one! Don't trust Java that does THAT SAME DAMN THING FOR YOU under the hood (you know how that swing draws itself with GDI and D3D on winbloze and OpenGL on Linux/solaris, bah our approach is better, just rewrite GUI and you are in the game, after we port it to any platform imaginable, should be over till 2010, maybe, sorta, if Miguel agrees, such a nice guy), because, .Net is 3.5% faster it eats 2,3% less memory, starts 6,2 % faster (all of those I made up because I STILL can't publish any .Net benchmarks, but numbers are great, trust you me!) and it is after all invented in MS, not like that Java that Sun, IBM, Oracle and others are pushing. Just look at our demo, see how fast it is? OK, it is not really fast now, but just wait for 2006! Can you imagine all that nice and fast hardware? And imagine, just imagine what JIT can do for you. We invented JIT you know! (OK we didn't but it sounds nice, and we hope you will all forget that we spent 5 years explaining how native compilation is better). Just wait, we have that nice "Hot spot" concept in our labs, that will make wonders with footprint. What? It is already invented? Uh, damn, someone cloned it! I was just talking with Alchin yesterday about that beast. Nevertheless, for very brave VB developers, there is Jinidigo for distributed computing. Who says we can't inovate? You just have to be patient. Like you always had. And learn everything from scratch. But, ask your friends good with Java to help you; they should know what we are talking about!
WTF is next? WinSA (WinSucksAss)? WinBB (WinBillBlows)? I think the problem is that Bill doesn't ever want to fix a product... he just throws out new ones so that M$ can continue servicing their accounts via "prison style butt pluggin"... (Hey Bill, guess what... YOU SUCK!)
I actually agree with the poster. Why shouldn't I open an exe if I want to? How's it different to downloading a rogue exe from a web site and executing it? Should that be banned too? Hint: No it shouldn't
One of the most important and in my mind underrated announcements was that Abiword and KWord will be switching to the Open Office file format. If OSS can hammer it into people's heads that this is the format things should be done in, it at least will end the problem of explaining to people why Abiword (small things, any OS) combined with Open Office (large things, any OS) is a valid replacement for MS Word.
That is, if the Abiword people can stop their program from crashing once a session...
I'm not evangelizing, I'm grieving. I would be happy with Microsoft if I thought they were going down the right path.
I predicted the fall of Novell, WordPerfect, Corel, Fifth Generation Systems, and PowerSoft long before they happened. I talked extensively to the operations manager at Corel before the fall; he agreed; it was no secret to those who think about management. I talked extensively on the telephone to the CEO of Fifth Generation Systems before the fall of that company. He didn't have enough technical knowledge to run a technically-oriented company.
In talking about the problems of Microsoft, I am just continuing with the same analytical principles.
It would be better if Microsoft didn't drag 400,000,000 people, including me, through a lot of problems.
That would mean locking out Java and other non dotnet languages.
Umm... like, DUH!
I'm no Microsoft fan, but the whole concept of using a relational database system for filing system purposes sounds pretty cool to me.
Are there any projects involved in producing a databased filing system for Linux?
I say that whiner got what he deserved...his app phoned home and did registration checking and such....so fuck him...the least he could have done is warn people before installation
Overly Critical Guy is a known troll and this is a troll post!
MOD PARENT DOWN!
For those of you who doubt this, just check his journal where he brags about his trolling prowess.
Still IE6.
So while they may have added popup blocking and a download manager, which other browsers have had for years, it doesn't look like there will be any increased support for standards like CSS and PNG.
Phillip
Yeah, and it's just about as funny as your obtuse "observation". Maybe it's time to call it quits while you're ahead in the karma game?
A note to those of you who are moderating this guy's crap up: You Will Be Punished In M2.
Well I sure am glad winning the "browser wars" didn't stifle innovation.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
...after all, the sidebar is from GNOME. ;-)
I quite like those sidebars in GNOME. I can put it in different layout every week and never get bored!!! Why hasn't MS figured this out sooner as a clone to Solitare.
CHEERS
--RoadkillBunny
Cheers,
RoadkillBunny
Bill Gates just made the Adam Osborne mistake. He announced "WinFX", whatever that is, as the improvement to .NET. Now a significant number of people will wait for WinFX, and Microsoft will lose the profits it would have had from those who wait.
Dilbert wags the dog
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
The company "also unveiled 'WinFX,' which it described as a new application programming model for Windows that is the evolution of its .NET programming framework.
And in other news, the band NOFX has doubled their sales on the iTunes music store today among Mac enthusiasts.
Ok, sorry, it was funnier in my head five minutes ago.
Sound waves should be free!
Good it's about time that we get another programming language!
If you read on further, they don't have anything down for negative goodwill. I beg to differ...
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
"Longhorn will include technology for building a new generation of "smart client" software that combines the look and feel of PC applications such as Word or Excel with immediate access to information on the Web."
For almost a decade now Microsoft has caused more security holes due to "cross zone" attacks.. a problem almost unique to Microsoft due to their love affair with applications that have to decide whether to trust active content based on completely inadequate and increasingly convoluted heuristics... than buffer overflows and social engineering attacks put together. The majority of big email worms, *all* the macro viruses, and I believe (though I'm not 100% sure) *all* the Internet Explorer attacks are caused by this fundamentally insecure approach to the Internet.
And now they're adding more potential attack routes?
This is the new security conscious Microsoft?
Just look at the different distros available: Mandrake is very user-friendly, Slackware less so. That's not the point of Slackware, but it is the point of Mandrake. So, we don't keep a single standard to leave room for everyone and everything.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Bass are relatively easy to catch. Trout hard.
I used to think this, until I went fly fishing with some guide. I caught a few trout on flies, but they weren't really biting. The guide then let me in on a secret(if it actually is, who knows), just use a spinning rod/real and a regular old bass bait(beetle spin, rooster tail, etc...). The trout then acted just like all the largemouth bass I have ever caught. They just couldn't resist the flashing from the spinner.
Fly fishing is fun, but if you are out to really catch the most fish it is probably not the most efficient.
I agree, 100%.
It's like they looked at what Apple was doing, and thought "oh, Metal, that's cool, but it's not ugly and depressing enough, let's make ours black... you know a Goth version of Metal... and call it Slate, and while we're about it let's copy the Dock but make it take up 1/8th the screen... and opaque, just to make sure people notice it."
"Cool, makes me want to paint my fingernails purple."
No, locking your doors won't make you a 100 percent secure -- you could open the door to an axe murderer. But Outlook is leaving the freakin front door wide open with a big sign saying, "hey, no one is home!"
Should I be free to have the front door wide open to get some air? Sure. But tell me one circumstance, one lousy circumstance, where you ever want to run a script or an EXE from an e-mail. And no, I don't mean an attachment, I mean this freakin auto-run stuff just for previewing an e-mail.
Draft Clark -- to stand before the Hague Tribunal.
If most of the 'services' provided for Longhorn are .NET based, then the content providers will probably have to be running .NET servers i.e. Microsoft based technology.
The potential to lock out other vendors is huge.
And who sanctions the distributers of this information? Can we trust that the information comes from a reputable source?
If a lot of web sites are unavailable (The great firewall of China as an example), will there be enough functionality left in Longhorn to justify upgrading?
But the Windows API is essentially, as you say, OO-lite for C. Of course everyone wants to use C++ style OO these days, and that is where the trouble starts (MFC followed by ATL are increased levels of obfuscation).
The idea is that you make a window handle a field variable of an object class, add some methods to create and destroy and manage the window handle, and then windows suddenly become objects in your class framework. Oh, if it were only that easy!
What is it that makes a Windows class framework so hard that we tolerate POS like MFC and ATL? One problem is that it is so easy to blow away a window handle -- it can be blown away with DestroyWindow() if you expose the window handle through a Get() function, it can be blown away when the parent window handle gets destroyed, and it can even vanish during window handle create (CreateWindow() can return a NULL HWND if your WinProc decides to bail on getting the WM_CREATE message). So it is hard to synchronize the lifetime of the window handle with the lifetime of the object containing it.
The next problem is that you would like your C++ object to hook into messages sent to the window handle object. Since there are a zillion messages, making a master base class with a zillion virtual functions is too clumsy. The MFC solution is these ugly MESSAGE_MAP macros to generate message dispatch jump tables, for which I have never seen a satisfactory answer to how they work. My own solution is to come up with base classes that use a switch statement to dispatch the commonly-used messages to virtual methods, and to have a virtual WndProc() method to which you can hook more messages using another switch statement.
The final bit of ugly is that a lot of messages that you would want (did I get pressed?) get sent as WM_COMMAND messages to the parent window handle. What I see the Borland VCL do is that you have parent-child relationships among the VCL classes that mirror the parent-child of the underlying window handles, and that a parent class resends WM_COMMAND messages as CM_ (really WM_USER) messages back to the child window handle where the child framework class hooks into it. Baroque, yes, but they had to find some way to do it.
But what is this business of getting away from the Windows API in .NET? Windows.Forms famously exposes window handles and displace contexts (HDC's) along with giving you a WinProc() method to hook Windows messages. There is a lot of stuff in the Windows API not supported in .NET (multi-media, screen scrolls), combined with the availability of the HWND and HDC from a Windows.Forms class, and you get the picture. How in the heck are they planning on weaning us from Win32 when Windows.Forms entices, tempts, and cajoles us to hook into Win32 to do all the stuff we are doing in our Windows apps that MS hasn't implemented as a Windows.Forms class or method?
He didn't say "as id10t as Outlook _Express_", did he?
It is pretty lame -- we run plain ordinary .EXE files off network share drives (the student account logins) but .NET thinks this is this big security hole to run a .NET app that uses an ordinary Windows .DLL or .OCX run from the same place.
I found some books on the subject of .NET security and zones and trusts and blah, blah. Geez, it reads like the Federal Register.
He just trolled you all!
KDE seems to bring out a new release every 6 months or so. GNOME will probably rev before 2006. We'll probably even have a 2.8 kernel by then too. Linux could be poised to wipe out a lot of Windows desktops by then.
It just seems to me that the free software community will together produce a lot more software, window manager features, and application integration in 2 to 2.5 years than Microsoft will with Longhorn.
I'm positive there would be an uproar in the open source/NIX community when you start saying things like there should be no /usr and no /bin, it should just work.
Nothing "just" works without configuration! What would you propose: an elaborate registry, as Windows has?
I am pretty sure that a MacOS X power user that has a thorny weird issue would have a much easier time going to the "file metaphor" than the Windows user would have in digging through a hierarchical registry that is NO metaphor other than a simple tree structure.
Crazy, radical, non-traditional thoughts like that are needed for the future of computing, but will never be accepted by old timers who insist that a well-organized hierarchy-based file system is the way to go (which I read in replies many times when people mention this type of abstraction).
I agree in part. This doesn't mean we should knee-jerk and give up an enduring metaphor for a poorly thought-out solution. The history of computing has very few enduring metaphors.
Microsoft is pushing the envelope in a fairly predictable fashion, but it's good that they're throwing their weight behind new approaches. On the other hand, I would hope we don't really just take a page from Microsoft and try to make MySQL the filesystem for Linux.
-Stu
I agree some changes are needed, but I think an entirly relational system is not the way to go.
The need for a lot of metadata is obvious. But why not work with a DB layered over a hierarchy?
What I fear most with a fully relational file system is this - I create a file, Fred, It has mountains and clouds in it, so it can be found under "mountains" and "clouds" keywords in pictures... sometime later I decide the mountains are really more hills and remove that keyword. Then later I decide the clouds category is silly and remove that. Where is my file now? Can I even reach it or is it zombied?
The only reason Windows has to come up with something new is that they were stupid enough not to support symbolic links, which OS X does. In the typical MS fashion, the solution to a simple problem is a horribly annoying and probably buggy system that requires way to many system resources. Do YOU want to trust your filesystem to MS FileMangler 1.0?
Instead of these questionable improvements that users have not really demonstrated they need much (advanced search features have removed much of this need) OS X has added in things of a little more real value, like journaling FS as standard and FileVault for securre storae of files on portable devices (and even THAT has had some issues [being OS X's answer to FileMangler 1.0], I'm going to wait a bit before I activate that!).
OS X even has a great place already to place file metadata - the resource fork. So I think in time they will get there, but they are evolving to a place users want to be and not going in a giant messy big bang.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Lads, I am truly surprised that no one has commented on the "Longhorn" code name.
Longhorn's are cows. Cows produce two things in copious quantities:
1) Gas, AKA cow farts.
2) Cow pies, AKA shit.
So, just what is Microsoft trying to tell us???
Sure, if you bother to have the latest and greatest.
The fact that you even need to block executables et. al. tells me that Microsoft really dropped the ball on E-Mail security, and now they have to clean up their mess. I've been using e-mail for well over 10 years, and until we hit Outlook and Outlook Express, I never had to remove any executables to protect my system from viruses, so why should I need to now?
What you need to do is recognise crap for crap in all it's incarnations. Just because Microsoft released a patch doesn't suddenly make this piece of crap decent, especially when it's suddenly not even doing as much as my 10 year old Eudora Pro 16 bit can anymore.
It's been a long time.
Ohh gee let me see, how about you STOP CODE FROM BEING REMOTELY EXECUTED INSIDE AN EMAIL CLIENT. Disabling the ability to open attachments Directly out of email would significantly cut down on outlook viruses, that... and getting rid of outlook.
Our shop has gone to a specialized mail client, which limits execution of attachments. (It has it's own file association, like opera does) And guess what, we were virus free for nearly a year until some idiot brought in a nachi infected laptop.
It does allow it to be turned off. You know how you can hide icons in the notification area? You can minimize the sidebar into a collapsible button down there. I know because I watched a presenter do it today when she wanted more screen space for Studio so she could show more screen space. The 4:45 Avalon and databainding session.
Thanks for your post. You have added facts that we have all needed to understand this issue.
...raving anti-Windows monkeys and their shit throwing. ./ Linux fanbois are the suck.
If you did, you'd get a warning message:
"Warning: Uninstalling Outlook Express may cause Outlook to cease to function. Do you wish to continue?"
Lofty goal they're aiming for, isn't it?
WinFx, you mean like this
???
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowfx/
My other Sig is very funny.
you won't have to categorize files into folders
IMO you need AI for this.
If you do not put some keywords into the document or put it in appropriate directory, how is computer going to find it?
Say you created note "Meet Bill here at 11:00". Computer saves it for you (say in "/" along with other thousands of similar memos) and also notes, that it has been saved "Tue Oct 28 11:42:58 CET 2003". Maybe it can also note, that according to GPS you are in New York and while you have currently running 5 concurent project (or maybe more but computer can't be sure you werent lazy and dit not withold info about some project from it), it is probable that this note is related to one of them.
Say one year later you are compiling analysis about your business with CompanyX (where Bill works). How is computer going to correctly either include or exclude above mentioned memo from statistical data? You were lazy to put it in "CompanyX" directory, you did not specify "CompanyX" keyword so you will either have to sort throught a lot of such "uncategorizied" memos/files/documents or use just incomplete analyses.
So either you do not forget about file categirization or you have to have some advanced AI (with inteligence comparable to inteligence of good human secretary) which will also either figure out missing data for you (so to take that great burden from you) or asks for them right away (when you dictated the note, it will ask: "Is that Bill from CompanyX?") and so on ...
hany
You have obviously never used Lotus Notes. It is the most awful piece of software I have ever used.
You have reach'd too far
Overly Critical Guy
Destruction awaits
Sure, KDE has borrowed stuff from Windows but the borrowing has also gone the other way as well. Just off the top of my head, I remember seeing browsing an FTP site as if it were part of your local filesystem in Konqueror long before MS decided it was a cool idea to put into IE. So why don't you get your facts straight before you go spouting off about how KDE rips off Windows (as if they're the only one doing it)?
So you're Overly Critical Guy's other account? Whod've thunk it?
Replying to your own posts with another account is so passe.
fuck you
by 2006 they have to change the "FX" name because it's sooo out of fashion :)
Just a thought about why the development is taking so long and why M$ are moving towards .Net .Net well before Longhorn is released.
Could it be possible that they are going to dump their underlying kernel altogether and incorporate a BSD kernel? This would explain why the development is taking a very long time, and also explain why they are trying to move everyone over to
I am Monkey, the Great Sage, equal of heaven!
"I have never had Outlook crash. Ever. Therefore, Outlook never crashes. Q.E.D."
Man, it is so easy to destroy your stupid arguments it isn't even funny. Actually, it's really pathetic, like pushing over a blind man.