I don't need or want a camera in my phone either, but for 95% of the population, it doesn't hurt. And it certainly isn't expensive.
You don't have to see the "use" of Linux on a phone. In the case of the Motorola, that only means that their Java software base runs in Linux. I'd expect more stability than an equivalent Windows-based smartphone and better interoperability with my desktops. Since it's apparently just a USB Mass Storage Device to the computer, sounds like that was granted.
The email syncing is only with Microsoft Exchange, but both products can do POP3 and the Moto can even do IMAP4 - that's pretty darn flexible.
As for those other features you don't know about, the article often includes more information than the summary. The Motorola is a quad-band phone, the E28 mentioned some ungodly amount of battery life, and both I think had Bluetooth.
And lastly, I'm sure even someone as annoyed as you at new things can figure out how to use them as phones. It's not like the interface is BASH on these - they look just like phones and people who don't know it's Linux will have no trouble using them as such. -N
You don't understand apparently that ip addresses are hierarchical too. They move in blocks and they are routed in blocks. The routers that are up high in the backbones of the internet don't know that your ip address it at your house - they think bigger. They think along the lines of 200.*.*.* is this way or something.
That's oversimplified of course, but essentially, the precendent this sets is that routers will have to remember every IP address in existance and which direction traffic to it should go. Without being able to trust that larger blocks are largely unbroken, routing will get out of control, out of hand, out of the realm of the processing power or storage of current routing technology, etc.... -N
Even the best security is only sufficient. Eventually, everything can be cracked. Eventually, enough computing power will be available to make today's encryption algorithms useless. But eventually, security options will be sifficiently better to protect those that want it. -N
If you haven't used windows recently, maybe you should try. It's actually gotten much faster and more stable, and it's actually very easy to cut out a lot of the bloat with just a few settings.
Faster, more stable, sure... But I still can't get used to the lack of features. I get lost with how hard things are to find and accomplish with a Windows desktop.
Yeah, linux is very fashionable for the technological elite to use, but what actual benefits do you get from using it as a Windows replacement. Compare to Windows XP Professional:
A good interface, quick command line access and a useful command line. SFTP/FTP/HTTP/everything/etc directly accessible under my filesystem browsing (KDE/Konqueror)... lots.
1) Is it *really* more stable? How often can you *really* get the BSOD to come up in XP? I haven't managed yet. Can you get the uptime I've experienced with Windows on Linux? Probably. Can you get the same uptime and still have sound support? Maybe. Can you do it with the grand total of around 2 hours of configuration necessary?
Yes, it's more stable. From what I understand of XP, the BSOD doesn't happen anymore because the machine just reboots rather than show a screen dump to most people who will never know what it is. And sound support is not so hard as you make it out to be. It just works, just like in Windows. As for the total 2 hours of configuration, that's BS. I can't remember ever rebuilding a Windows box in under a day. My Debian install, should I need to reinstall it, can be reconfigured in less time than that will all programs and preferences and configuration carried over.
2) Is it *really* more secure, or does it just invite fewer attacks? Yes, I know Outlook is terrible, but that's not the actual Windows OS, nor does it need to be installed.
Yes, and the fact that Outlook insecurities can affect the OS is proof that the OS itself is also insecure.
3) Is all the extra aggravation *really* worth it? Yeah, you're extra cool for running Linux and you're sticking it to the man, but why?
Again, I choose Linux because it works better for me. I can't do my job from a Windows machine anymore. It just isn't capable. As for aggravation, the only computer aggravation I have is crappy hardware that I can't afford to replace when the caps on my mobo blow out or something.
Don't get me wrong; Linux is great for a server environment and a viable alternative when you have limited hardware and only need certain limited programs, but here at Slashdot it seems to be the solution to everything. I use it on my servers, my desktop, my laptop, and my TV. That's a whole lot of environments, a wide variety of hardware, and lots of different programs, moreso than I think is even available for Windows. Linux isn't the solution to everything and karma whores here are often pointing that out while those that say it is are usually modded down for lacking insight. That doesn't mean it should be pigeon-holed to only specific circumstances though.
For reference, I'm a Computer Science student and work as a programmer in the summers. My home computer is Windows XP Professional running on a pentium 4 1.7 ghz and my work computer is a pentium 3 450 mhz. I've managed to get some pretty snappy performance on my work computer by running xfce or blackbox (I prefer blackbox) as long as I don't run more than one or two real programs.
Sounds like when you want to work from your machine, you use Linux. But for the home machine, it doesn't matter. Lots of people here use their computers for work and therefore rely on their functionality. Linux is a much more viable choice then.
I basically run the same few programs on both computers (emacs, mozilla firefox, aim/gaim, winamp/xmms) most of the time. Granted, it's a little unfair because my home computer is three times the computer of my work computer, but I think I get a lot more than 3 times the benefit out of it. For the
The clock speed is useless to compare different architectures or even different processor lines made by the same manufacturer. So, A G5 running at 2.5GHz can't be compared to an Athlon running at 2.5GHz on clock speed alone, for example.
But between two otherwise identical G5 chips, it can be assumed the 2.5GHz one will go faster than a 2GHz one. It's essentially the same chip, just running faster. -N
You missed his point completely. Not that I agree with his post, but he meant that it's obvious OSX is better than Win98 and no one would counter that, but that OSX is a modern operating system and should be compared to a modern Windows. -N
Not there in mine... a Debian Woody install that's since been upgraded to Testing/Unstable, but then again, I don't upgrade my config files when with the packages, if I can avoid it. -N
And I thought people with such low IDs tended not to troll for a flame war... much less start them.
Get over the signature - it's just a sig and it'll probably be gone soon enough. Get off your high horse and stop assuming that apparently you're the only one who really cares about meta-modding. And stop assuming I'm mucking up the system by just leaving redundant meta-mods alone. I do meta-mod and I do take the time necessary, but it is relatively quick to do for any other moderations. I felt I'd make a point of this with my sig and you seem to want to attack me for having that opinon. Finally, get over yourself. -N
Dude, I was more or less pointing out the futility of asking meta-moderators to decide what's redundant. Without reading up on the whole article and commentary, there's no way to know if a comment is redundant or not.
I'm aware you can extrapolate from context with most messages, but re-reading all the commentary is hardly reading the context. -N
I struggled my ass off to afford WPI, which is apparently now about $40k/year. I'm now in more debt than I can quantify and still working my ass off for it. I resent the extra costs associated with school still, especially books, when they were used so little in so many classes, regardless of price.
I'll bet there are students at CWRU that can't necessarily or easily afford to be there. -N
I wouldn't use it. I don't connect insecure machines to the internet, until I've had time to really work on them. My servers get built from Debian distributions, firewalled off, then updated from patches before they touch a connection.
It's highly unlikely I would trust booting from a remote source to happen securely, especially when I'm assuming the network boot BIOS isn't too likely to tunnel that through SSH or something. -N
Sounds like most over-wired. I would hope they could allow students to connect for free with all they saved by running fiber only and no ethernet. They should have budgeted in for students to get all they need to connect though. I'd be annoyed if I had to buy more equipment to connect my machines there, only to accomodate bandwidth I'll never realistically utilize. -N
Things change. Typically, no, commercial CDs aren't burned by a Plextor drive at the factory, but the market is changing and that's directing the industry to change too.
If burned discs aren't a solution, then they have to come up with a different solution. If they find a way to press one-off CDs because of the prodding, great for everybody. But maybe, just maybe, that's the hint that CDs themselves aren't the solution.
Don't consider it a problem that it can't be done now - it's an opportunity for a new product to be invented, a new mechanism to be introduced. Could be a digital distribution medium that will actually be researched rather than the crap they've been hacking together lately. -N
Someone more lawyerly will likely correct me, but you're thinking of trademarks from my understanding. Trademarks must be protected or else they're lost. Patents however, especially as of late, you'd think were designed specifically for the rather underhanded practice you just described. Consider GIF, as the most common example. -N
In the example of the grandparent, you type apt-get update && apt-get -u upgrade
It tells you exactly what software has updates and offers to install them. It does the rest for you. Should you want to install one at a time because of potential/expected problems with upgrading them, type apt-get install package-name.
It's also been pointed out how that doesn't really apply, but thanks for trying to sound official and stuff.
Sure, no system can go without patching as the grandparent suggested, but the assumption that Windows is only more problematic than Linux because it's more common ignores everything that makes Linux better: open source peer review, strong security model, proper code/software structure (ie, HTML rendering isn't done in kernel32.exe or something), etc... -N
Oh, and I did try the other Linux IMAP clients I could find too, but really none worked out for me. I found them either too slow and kludgy like Evolution or again missing the Trash/Sent type of stuff like Mozilla's Mail/News.
Anyway, I'm just surprised that apparently KMail is the bottom of the barrel in your eyes. -N
You make it sound like KMail is just a horrible IMAP client, but I've never used any better. I tried the Windows variants years ago with every one missing something obvious, like proper Trash or Sent handling, or the deal someone else mentioned where every folder was a subfolder of Inbox, or just bad interfaces, especially for keyboard only operation. When I found KMail, it was damn near perfect. The only other client I've used since finding KMail is my SquirrelMail webmail setup, when I'm away from my machines.
And KMail has only gotten better since I started using it. Anyway, from the sound of things, people seem to very highly regard T-Bird, so I'll give it a shot when I have some time to compile or I find a nice Debian package. -N
How does Thunderbird do with IMAP and IMAP-ssl? I use Kontact/KMail now and really have little reason to switch, but I'm always up for trying new things if they have really made a nice interface.
So who uses IMAP with T-Bird and how does it do? -N
Slashdot Mirror
I don't need or want a camera in my phone either, but for 95% of the population, it doesn't hurt. And it certainly isn't expensive.
You don't have to see the "use" of Linux on a phone. In the case of the Motorola, that only means that their Java software base runs in Linux. I'd expect more stability than an equivalent Windows-based smartphone and better interoperability with my desktops. Since it's apparently just a USB Mass Storage Device to the computer, sounds like that was granted.
The email syncing is only with Microsoft Exchange, but both products can do POP3 and the Moto can even do IMAP4 - that's pretty darn flexible.
As for those other features you don't know about, the article often includes more information than the summary. The Motorola is a quad-band phone, the E28 mentioned some ungodly amount of battery life, and both I think had Bluetooth.
And lastly, I'm sure even someone as annoyed as you at new things can figure out how to use them as phones. It's not like the interface is BASH on these - they look just like phones and people who don't know it's Linux will have no trouble using them as such.
-N
You don't understand apparently that ip addresses are hierarchical too. They move in blocks and they are routed in blocks. The routers that are up high in the backbones of the internet don't know that your ip address it at your house - they think bigger. They think along the lines of 200.*.*.* is this way or something.
That's oversimplified of course, but essentially, the precendent this sets is that routers will have to remember every IP address in existance and which direction traffic to it should go. Without being able to trust that larger blocks are largely unbroken, routing will get out of control, out of hand, out of the realm of the processing power or storage of current routing technology, etc....
-N
Even the best security is only sufficient. Eventually, everything can be cracked. Eventually, enough computing power will be available to make today's encryption algorithms useless. But eventually, security options will be sifficiently better to protect those that want it.
-N
Faster, more stable, sure... But I still can't get used to the lack of features. I get lost with how hard things are to find and accomplish with a Windows desktop.
Yeah, linux is very fashionable for the technological elite to use, but what actual benefits do you get from using it as a Windows replacement. Compare to Windows XP Professional:
A good interface, quick command line access and a useful command line. SFTP/FTP/HTTP/everything/etc directly accessible under my filesystem browsing (KDE/Konqueror)... lots.
1) Is it *really* more stable? How often can you *really* get the BSOD to come up in XP? I haven't managed yet. Can you get the uptime I've experienced with Windows on Linux? Probably. Can you get the same uptime and still have sound support? Maybe. Can you do it with the grand total of around 2 hours of configuration necessary?
Yes, it's more stable. From what I understand of XP, the BSOD doesn't happen anymore because the machine just reboots rather than show a screen dump to most people who will never know what it is. And sound support is not so hard as you make it out to be. It just works, just like in Windows. As for the total 2 hours of configuration, that's BS. I can't remember ever rebuilding a Windows box in under a day. My Debian install, should I need to reinstall it, can be reconfigured in less time than that will all programs and preferences and configuration carried over.
2) Is it *really* more secure, or does it just invite fewer attacks? Yes, I know Outlook is terrible, but that's not the actual Windows OS, nor does it need to be installed.
Yes, and the fact that Outlook insecurities can affect the OS is proof that the OS itself is also insecure.
3) Is all the extra aggravation *really* worth it? Yeah, you're extra cool for running Linux and you're sticking it to the man, but why?
Again, I choose Linux because it works better for me. I can't do my job from a Windows machine anymore. It just isn't capable. As for aggravation, the only computer aggravation I have is crappy hardware that I can't afford to replace when the caps on my mobo blow out or something.
Don't get me wrong; Linux is great for a server environment and a viable alternative when you have limited hardware and only need certain limited programs, but here at Slashdot it seems to be the solution to everything.
I use it on my servers, my desktop, my laptop, and my TV. That's a whole lot of environments, a wide variety of hardware, and lots of different programs, moreso than I think is even available for Windows. Linux isn't the solution to everything and karma whores here are often pointing that out while those that say it is are usually modded down for lacking insight. That doesn't mean it should be pigeon-holed to only specific circumstances though.
For reference, I'm a Computer Science student and work as a programmer in the summers. My home computer is Windows XP Professional running on a pentium 4 1.7 ghz and my work computer is a pentium 3 450 mhz. I've managed to get some pretty snappy performance on my work computer by running xfce or blackbox (I prefer blackbox) as long as I don't run more than one or two real programs.
Sounds like when you want to work from your machine, you use Linux. But for the home machine, it doesn't matter. Lots of people here use their computers for work and therefore rely on their functionality. Linux is a much more viable choice then.
I basically run the same few programs on both computers (emacs, mozilla firefox, aim/gaim, winamp/xmms) most of the time. Granted, it's a little unfair because my home computer is three times the computer of my work computer, but I think I get a lot more than 3 times the benefit out of it.
For the
The clock speed is useless to compare different architectures or even different processor lines made by the same manufacturer. So, A G5 running at 2.5GHz can't be compared to an Athlon running at 2.5GHz on clock speed alone, for example.
But between two otherwise identical G5 chips, it can be assumed the 2.5GHz one will go faster than a 2GHz one. It's essentially the same chip, just running faster.
-N
You missed his point completely. Not that I agree with his post, but he meant that it's obvious OSX is better than Win98 and no one would counter that, but that OSX is a modern operating system and should be compared to a modern Windows.
-N
Not there in mine... a Debian Woody install that's since been upgraded to Testing/Unstable, but then again, I don't upgrade my config files when with the packages, if I can avoid it.
-N
And I thought people with such low IDs tended not to troll for a flame war... much less start them.
Get over the signature - it's just a sig and it'll probably be gone soon enough. Get off your high horse and stop assuming that apparently you're the only one who really cares about meta-modding. And stop assuming I'm mucking up the system by just leaving redundant meta-mods alone. I do meta-mod and I do take the time necessary, but it is relatively quick to do for any other moderations. I felt I'd make a point of this with my sig and you seem to want to attack me for having that opinon. Finally, get over yourself.
-N
Dude, I was more or less pointing out the futility of asking meta-moderators to decide what's redundant. Without reading up on the whole article and commentary, there's no way to know if a comment is redundant or not.
I'm aware you can extrapolate from context with most messages, but re-reading all the commentary is hardly reading the context.
-N
What? Did they buy cdrecord?
-N
I struggled my ass off to afford WPI, which is apparently now about $40k/year. I'm now in more debt than I can quantify and still working my ass off for it. I resent the extra costs associated with school still, especially books, when they were used so little in so many classes, regardless of price.
I'll bet there are students at CWRU that can't necessarily or easily afford to be there.
-N
Yes, I do... I slipped.
-N
They could have wired Cat5 instead of Cat3 and used the extra pairs for the phone just as easily.
-N
I wouldn't use it. I don't connect insecure machines to the internet, until I've had time to really work on them. My servers get built from Debian distributions, firewalled off, then updated from patches before they touch a connection.
It's highly unlikely I would trust booting from a remote source to happen securely, especially when I'm assuming the network boot BIOS isn't too likely to tunnel that through SSH or something.
-N
Sounds like most over-wired. I would hope they could allow students to connect for free with all they saved by running fiber only and no ethernet. They should have budgeted in for students to get all they need to connect though. I'd be annoyed if I had to buy more equipment to connect my machines there, only to accomodate bandwidth I'll never realistically utilize.
-N
Well, then your ISP isn't likely to cut off your access to mail servers that they don't run. Simple as that.
-N
Things change. Typically, no, commercial CDs aren't burned by a Plextor drive at the factory, but the market is changing and that's directing the industry to change too.
If burned discs aren't a solution, then they have to come up with a different solution. If they find a way to press one-off CDs because of the prodding, great for everybody. But maybe, just maybe, that's the hint that CDs themselves aren't the solution.
Don't consider it a problem that it can't be done now - it's an opportunity for a new product to be invented, a new mechanism to be introduced. Could be a digital distribution medium that will actually be researched rather than the crap they've been hacking together lately.
-N
Someone more lawyerly will likely correct me, but you're thinking of trademarks from my understanding. Trademarks must be protected or else they're lost. Patents however, especially as of late, you'd think were designed specifically for the rather underhanded practice you just described. Consider GIF, as the most common example.
-N
Easy. I have a shot of finishing.
-N
What article?
-N
In the example of the grandparent, you type
apt-get update && apt-get -u upgrade
It tells you exactly what software has updates and offers to install them. It does the rest for you. Should you want to install one at a time because of potential/expected problems with upgrading them, type apt-get install package-name.
It's not tough.
-N
It's also been pointed out how that doesn't really apply, but thanks for trying to sound official and stuff.
Sure, no system can go without patching as the grandparent suggested, but the assumption that Windows is only more problematic than Linux because it's more common ignores everything that makes Linux better: open source peer review, strong security model, proper code/software structure (ie, HTML rendering isn't done in kernel32.exe or something), etc...
-N
Oh, and I did try the other Linux IMAP clients I could find too, but really none worked out for me. I found them either too slow and kludgy like Evolution or again missing the Trash/Sent type of stuff like Mozilla's Mail/News.
Anyway, I'm just surprised that apparently KMail is the bottom of the barrel in your eyes.
-N
You make it sound like KMail is just a horrible IMAP client, but I've never used any better. I tried the Windows variants years ago with every one missing something obvious, like proper Trash or Sent handling, or the deal someone else mentioned where every folder was a subfolder of Inbox, or just bad interfaces, especially for keyboard only operation. When I found KMail, it was damn near perfect. The only other client I've used since finding KMail is my SquirrelMail webmail setup, when I'm away from my machines.
And KMail has only gotten better since I started using it. Anyway, from the sound of things, people seem to very highly regard T-Bird, so I'll give it a shot when I have some time to compile or I find a nice Debian package.
-N
How does Thunderbird do with IMAP and IMAP-ssl? I use Kontact/KMail now and really have little reason to switch, but I'm always up for trying new things if they have really made a nice interface.
So who uses IMAP with T-Bird and how does it do?
-N