Actually, there was a follow up post suggesting that the script could eventually be used to switch a Debian Unstable system to Stable (and perhaps also the inverse?). If this feature is implemented, expect that code segment to change...
Even idiots can tell a DRMed file from a non-DRMed one when they try to send it to their friends using their favorite chat-app, and it won't work. In fact, they can probably also tell when they try to burn a CD with their CD-burning app (fairly easy to use these days) and it can't recognize the file format. Most people can't tell one engine in a car from another, but if some cars were made so they could never be loaned or sold, you'd better believe the owners (even the stupid ones) would know it, and would be VERY pissed. Even windows users are beginning to expect a higher standard from their computers; they can tell the difference between a file from Kazaa (which can be traded and copied about freely) and a file from the "new" napster (which can't).
Ok, I agree that boot time is important in many specific cases. However, you say
I see... fanbody and girls... claiming that... b) linux boots very fast. They are wrong.
This seems to be the prevailing wisdom here, so this is for everybody. I just have to disagree. A standard GNU/Linux distro (like Mandrake, for instance) will startup a buttload of services (depending on what you select at install time), and do far more than a standard Windows install (for instance). It will in fact run at startup every service that you've told it to install (again depending on if you tell it to, but I believe it will do this by default). Often this includes one or more databases (postgres, mysql), a web server (apache), perhaps a few file sharing services (samba, nfs, ftp), a few remote command services (ssh, telnet), and its usual collage of helpful newbie services (autodetect hardware, boot numlock, etc). Now, with all of this crap running on my antique P Pro 200-64mb, I boot in less than a minute from lilo to login prompt (and X is about 5 seconds more). I think XP home would barely beat that time on a system that old, and it can't serve things. And yes, faster systems scale nicely; my Debian system is extremely fast lilo->kdm; as good as my XP pro in fact, and it still has all the server trimmings.
Now, on the other hand (for a fair comparison), if you've ever experienced a windows 2000 server machine with active directory, you know real pain. From boot.ini to load of video drivers is fast, but after that, restoring network connections can take as long as five minutes even on a fast system.
So in conclusion, a default install of any random distro may or may not be slower starting up than another OS (read Windows), but just make sure you're making a fair comparison. If look through your/etc/rc3.d and find a whole bunch of services whose names you don't know, just remember that they might actually extend functionality beyond what you could get with another OS. If you ever truly do make your installation sleek and tiny, then give it another test and see what you find.
I guess I'll have to disagree with both you and AC. I think it's intriguing if any particular OS nabs all top 5 spots; I (and apparently the folks at Netcraft) imagine there would be more variety at the top. There are many other very stable OSes out there, such as some flavours of GNU/Linux (read "Debian-Stable"). But all that to say that I'd rather not nitpick Netcraft about one particular word. In the past they have chosen to put a humorous twist on server uptime data (an otherwise dry topic), and I have always liked the result.
Now honestly, about 99% of the population of the world are ignorant fools. In comparison, only about 95% of the posts of Slashdot are ill-informed, stupid, useless, etc; so I'd say/. isn't doing to badly. Plus, the modding system *does* work fairly well at getting rid of garbage and trolls (such as in your case).
If you think/. has bad comments, you should check out Zeropaid or AintitCoolNews and check out the bottom of the barrel (and then maybe read the infamous penny-arcade comic about AICN comments). An overwhelming percentage of the posts at those sites are "first posts" and "[CurrentTopic] sucks!!!!!!" posts.
Maybe the comments this time around weren't particularly informative, but there isn't a whole lot to say on this topic. Give everybody a break, and maybe *you* should post something useful instead of trolling and insulting people.
Odds are seriously against you reading this, but if you do....
I posted without researching, and acknowledged it (as you suggested). I offended you, and I apologized. You suggested I learn from my mistake as an adult, and thus I asked you to educate me (which in many ways, you did not; since you've dated people from both organizations, I would have thought you'd have special insite into whatever relationship exists between OG and FSF).
As to motivation; I never suggested OG was part of any kind of plot, and I definitely take back my flippant comment about them being posers. However, I am strongly apposed to the patent system as it stands, and any kind of patent enforcement usually evokes a fairly strong response on my part. I imagine that there are others in the FSF that are equally put off by patent enforcement (perhaps even Stallman himself, but I will not attribute that to him until I do further research).
You seem to be making assumptions about me (as a person) based on one post to slashdot. This seems to me to be a mistake in any case. I might still be a grandstander, or an asshole, or whatever it is that you hate, but please try to judge me based on more information. You can feel free to put me on your foe list or whatever you do in order to shun people, but I would appreciate you acknowledging my apology for offending you. I don't sleep well when I think somebody is cross with me.
So I didn't do my research and other people already called me on it in a more subtle manner. I'm terribly sorry if I offended you in some way (because you certainly seem offended). Anyway, thanks for being redundant.
First of all, I assume that neither Apple nor the The Open Group reads what I post, and I would not care for them to; it never was my purpose.
Secondly, in my defense: The Open Group through their advocacy of an open standards has tried to align themselves with Linux in at least one way that I can see; The Linux Standards Base. I couldn't find where they mentioned exactly what kind of involvement they have in this organization, but I would be curious to find out. If you could educate me, I'd be grateful.
qortra
I have no idea who the "Open Group" is, but it sounds like they pretend to support GNU/Linux. Suing for things like the name "Unix" however seems to me to be very much against the ideals of GNU and the FSF. I'd keep a close eye on this organization; they sound like posers.
I don't know very much about the business end of corporate buyouts or corporate software licensing, but I'll assume that you are accurate with your facts and your speculation. Furthermore, I do totally respect your opinion about Frankel, under certain circumstances, I would probably agree with you; I just want him to get a fair defense.
You say that, of him, that "yamering on in public about [his] former employer is at best pretty immature." While this is true, he isn't guilty of this particular thing (at least in the links that slashdot provided; i would welcome others if you have them). In fact, he says (of AOLTW), "I have nothing but respect for the company". All he claims is that the company owns his code, and it seem to me that you agree with that statement.
If there was financial timing involved, its possible that he came to his conclusion about leaving a while ago (perhaps after gnutella got ganked), and just postponed his departure until after he was financially secure. This too, to me, is totally valid; its a lot easier to practice your art (whatever that may be) if you don't have to worry about money. Four years of compromise might mean, for Frankel, a lifetime of doing just what he's wanted.
Which brings us to WASTE. First of all, I need to plead ignorance here; perhaps you can explain to me why Mozilla folk can release GPL code while still working for AOLTW, and Frankel can't. Is it a difference in their contracts? If so, do you have access to their contracts to show me the differences? But alas, I promised to assume that your factual information is accurate. So, he did something wrong and illegal by claiming to release GPLed code under Nullsoft. However, I'd like to think that this is another part of self-expression, perhaps similar to graffiti (which, although it is wrong, and ought to be wrong, is still sometimes beautiful/powerful art, and a real form of self expression). Sometimes, the method of communicating your art (in his case, as his last act of working for Nullsoft) is as important as the art itself. It sounds illogical, and grounded more in romantic ideals than in fact, but I can imagine that being important to Frankel.
Thanks for your comment, and please respond or email me if I've misrepresented your opinion in any way.
They aren't crazy at all. They're just bluffing.
on
SCO SCO SCO!
·
· Score: 1
They don't know anything that IBM and Novell don't. They're bluffing. And now their stock is 3-4 times higher than it was before this business, so there's your reason for the bluff. Here's a chart from Yahoo: SCOX 3 month stock prices.
I think you're right; every one of the technologies that I've seen mentioned already exists (and is even in use today). However, I think we are pretty close to a breakthrough in many of these areas; as a few fringe technologies mature, I think we'll begin to see totaly new gadgets. The thing is, law enforcement agents, soldiers, etc. can't be counting on untried, untested technology, so I'm sure that manufacturers cater to a far more conversative crowd.
If you want new exciting technologies, this is probably not the place to look.
Not the problematic ones. According to the post, this only deals with harddrives that have 40gb platters. The real problematic deskstar drives (GXP75,GXP60) had smaller platters (15 gb, 20 gb respectively i think).
Its fantastic that they are releasing it for free, and I'm very grateful that development took place for GNU/Linux and win32 concurrently. However, I'd still like to see a quality open source FPS sometime. It is important to note that this is still "free as in beer", not "as in speech".
From what I saw there, it seems to me that describing the competition as a search for the "most logical minds" is probably inaccurate. Although many solutions can probably divined by logic, it seems to me that most of the solutions require a more creative mind to solve within the time limit. Any thoughts?
I think the ability to program is far more valuable than the marginal hand-eye coordination/spacial orientation that playing video games offers. You should feel fortunate that you childhood was spent in more valuable ways; I pissed mine away with nintendo, and sometimes I regret it.
Firstly, you seem to assume that corporations think through things exhaustively. You know, the way Microsoft had already "thought out and prevented" any concievable hack on its products? Phoenix is by no means perfect, and the price of making a mistake in implementing this kind of technology is a few orders of magnitude higher than most other technologies. Being able to take control of somebody's system at the BIOS level is no joke. Spoofing is a obvious flaw that needs to be looked at in this situation. Implementing something to exploit a flaw like this would be neither "clever" nor "outlandish".
Secondly, and more importantly, I don't post for the benefit of Phoenix, or Microsoft, or you. I post for my benefit in the hopes that people will intelligently respond to my opinions, helping me to refine my ideas. I'd just as soon they didn't read this discussion (and yes, it is actually a discussion, so you don't have to make it a quotation).
I do have to commend you on your choice in making yourself anonymous, however. Comments like that could damage your reputation...
That simply isn't the case. Lilo is resident on hard drives, so lilo isn't even in memory until BIOS reads from the master boot record. BIOS can choose to perform any number of tasks before it does that particular operation, including erasing the hard drive, or giving out its IP to anyone it cares to.
I wonder if that kind of system would be vulnerable to spoofing attacks? That would be a pretty nasty trick to play on someone; erase their hard drive by puting a phoenix spoofing server on their network.
That makes a good deal of sense, and you are probably right (in that Gates will probably never release Office for Linux). However, it seems to me that given the mentality you just described, Office for Mac OS should never have been released. How do you explain that? Now, I realize that Mac OS isn't the same kind of threat as Linux, but once upon a time, it was probably the biggest obstacle to MS in terms of totally owning the consumer computer market.
It really depends on how you define "action". Encryption seems to me to be even more exciting a field. It isn't as glamorous as game programming, but the math involved is amazingly interesting (advanced number theory, primality), and good encryption tends to last for longer than good game engines.
3D rendering is not entirely about math (probably a lot more to do with studying the brain and how people generally interpret images that they see). Encryption however is ALL math. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.
Or, you can post them at both places and thus start a discussion at Slashdot. I'm sure some of the lamer question don't even have to be debated; I can answer them for you...
You are undoubtedly right that even most seasoned hackers would probabloy not be experienced enough to secure a network. However, Morse's business model seems to be based on first penetrating a network, in order to secure the business of a client by demonstrating its vulnerability (a la Sneakers, an excellent movie). And then, of course, securing a network. If I had to guess, Morse probably has entirely different teams for each of these processes. Now, you could argue that black hat hackers can't be trusted, and I wouldn't put up a fight. But, purely from a skill set point of view, black hat hackers would probably most qualified for the "penetrate" portion of a job.
regards, qortra
I'm not sure that we're disagreeing as much as you think we are. I just think we should be giving Ardour our support because I do think it is the future.
That being said, I don't know why you're taking issue with the fact that ProTools in most sane incarnations is not at all free. ProTools (which, of course, does run on any recent version of Windows or MacOS) is an expensive proposition for anyone; sometimes 5 digits, as you've mentioned. And it might be worth it. However, saying that ProTools software is FREE with the appropriate hardware is like saying that a Ferrari Engine is free with the purchase of the chassis (which is incidently the same price as the whole car). The only truly free version of Protools is, as you mentioned, ProTools Free. And its, as I've said, only available for windows 9x kernels, or Mac OS verions
Now, I'll admit that TDM is a brilliant system. It tends to work pretty well for a lot of people. However, I still maintain that under certain circumstances, PCs should be able to run quite a few non-destructive effects on quite a few tracks if optimized. Sure, third party developers (like Line 6) would need to develope their products with an x86 or PPC instruction set in mind. If you run out of processing power on a workstation, you actually can get a faster processor, sometimes a cheaper proposition than buying a $400 farmcard. You can also buy multi-processor systems that would improve Ardour's performance quite nicely. Incidently, dual processor motherboards (and the cost of another processor) are also cheaper than $400 farmcards in some cases.
I do believe you that most PCs right now (perhaps not any) can run full mixes (with dozens of tracks as you say you do) and many non-destructive effects. However, I do think that by the time Ardour matures (not this June, or perhaps the June after, but soon nevertheless), the processing power will be there, and then I think that host-processing based solutions will eclipse modular,proprietary solutions like ProTools TDM.
regards, qortra
also, feel free to email me about this; I would be interested to hear what you have to say, and doubtless, nobody on slashdot is watching anymore:-P
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, there was a follow up post suggesting that the script could eventually be used to switch a Debian Unstable system to Stable (and perhaps also the inverse?). If this feature is implemented, expect that code segment to change...
Even idiots can tell a DRMed file from a non-DRMed one when they try to send it to their friends using their favorite chat-app, and it won't work. In fact, they can probably also tell when they try to burn a CD with their CD-burning app (fairly easy to use these days) and it can't recognize the file format. Most people can't tell one engine in a car from another, but if some cars were made so they could never be loaned or sold, you'd better believe the owners (even the stupid ones) would know it, and would be VERY pissed. Even windows users are beginning to expect a higher standard from their computers; they can tell the difference between a file from Kazaa (which can be traded and copied about freely) and a file from the "new" napster (which can't).
We could switch everything to GNU.. UserGNU, or SuSE GNU, or Debian GNU/GNU.
If people don't mod this post DOWN, I will be dissapointed.
Ok, I agree that boot time is important in many specific cases. However, you say
/etc/rc3.d and find a whole bunch of services whose names you don't know, just remember that they might actually extend functionality beyond what you could get with another OS. If you ever truly do make your installation sleek and tiny, then give it another test and see what you find.
I see... fanbody and girls... claiming that... b) linux boots very fast. They are wrong.
This seems to be the prevailing wisdom here, so this is for everybody. I just have to disagree. A standard GNU/Linux distro (like Mandrake, for instance) will startup a buttload of services (depending on what you select at install time), and do far more than a standard Windows install (for instance). It will in fact run at startup every service that you've told it to install (again depending on if you tell it to, but I believe it will do this by default). Often this includes one or more databases (postgres, mysql), a web server (apache), perhaps a few file sharing services (samba, nfs, ftp), a few remote command services (ssh, telnet), and its usual collage of helpful newbie services (autodetect hardware, boot numlock, etc). Now, with all of this crap running on my antique P Pro 200-64mb, I boot in less than a minute from lilo to login prompt (and X is about 5 seconds more). I think XP home would barely beat that time on a system that old, and it can't serve things. And yes, faster systems scale nicely; my Debian system is extremely fast lilo->kdm; as good as my XP pro in fact, and it still has all the server trimmings.
Now, on the other hand (for a fair comparison), if you've ever experienced a windows 2000 server machine with active directory, you know real pain. From boot.ini to load of video drivers is fast, but after that, restoring network connections can take as long as five minutes even on a fast system.
So in conclusion, a default install of any random distro may or may not be slower starting up than another OS (read Windows), but just make sure you're making a fair comparison. If look through your
I guess I'll have to disagree with both you and AC. I think it's intriguing if any particular OS nabs all top 5 spots; I (and apparently the folks at Netcraft) imagine there would be more variety at the top. There are many other very stable OSes out there, such as some flavours of GNU/Linux (read "Debian-Stable"). But all that to say that I'd rather not nitpick Netcraft about one particular word. In the past they have chosen to put a humorous twist on server uptime data (an otherwise dry topic), and I have always liked the result.
Now honestly, about 99% of the population of the world are ignorant fools. In comparison, only about 95% of the posts of Slashdot are ill-informed, stupid, useless, etc; so I'd say /. isn't doing to badly. Plus, the modding system *does* work fairly well at getting rid of garbage and trolls (such as in your case).
/. has bad comments, you should check out Zeropaid or AintitCoolNews and check out the bottom of the barrel (and then maybe read the infamous penny-arcade comic about AICN comments). An overwhelming percentage of the posts at those sites are "first posts" and "[CurrentTopic] sucks!!!!!!" posts.
If you think
Maybe the comments this time around weren't particularly informative, but there isn't a whole lot to say on this topic. Give everybody a break, and maybe *you* should post something useful instead of trolling and insulting people.
Odds are seriously against you reading this, but if you do....
I posted without researching, and acknowledged it (as you suggested). I offended you, and I apologized. You suggested I learn from my mistake as an adult, and thus I asked you to educate me (which in many ways, you did not; since you've dated people from both organizations, I would have thought you'd have special insite into whatever relationship exists between OG and FSF).
As to motivation; I never suggested OG was part of any kind of plot, and I definitely take back my flippant comment about them being posers. However, I am strongly apposed to the patent system as it stands, and any kind of patent enforcement usually evokes a fairly strong response on my part. I imagine that there are others in the FSF that are equally put off by patent enforcement (perhaps even Stallman himself, but I will not attribute that to him until I do further research).
You seem to be making assumptions about me (as a person) based on one post to slashdot. This seems to me to be a mistake in any case. I might still be a grandstander, or an asshole, or whatever it is that you hate, but please try to judge me based on more information. You can feel free to put me on your foe list or whatever you do in order to shun people, but I would appreciate you acknowledging my apology for offending you. I don't sleep well when I think somebody is cross with me.
This thread is ridiculously old now, so I don't think you'll read this.
In case you do though, thanks for your post and your site on your experiences with the segway; I thought they were well constructed and informative.
Nevertheless, please be willing to admit that your experiences do end up sounding abit like the Apple "Switch" campaign or something of that nature.
Regards, qortra
So I didn't do my research and other people already called me on it in a more subtle manner. I'm terribly sorry if I offended you in some way (because you certainly seem offended). Anyway, thanks for being redundant.
First of all, I assume that neither Apple nor the The Open Group reads what I post, and I would not care for them to; it never was my purpose.
Secondly, in my defense: The Open Group through their advocacy of an open standards has tried to align themselves with Linux in at least one way that I can see; The Linux Standards Base. I couldn't find where they mentioned exactly what kind of involvement they have in this organization, but I would be curious to find out. If you could educate me, I'd be grateful. qortra
I have no idea who the "Open Group" is, but it sounds like they pretend to support GNU/Linux. Suing for things like the name "Unix" however seems to me to be very much against the ideals of GNU and the FSF. I'd keep a close eye on this organization; they sound like posers.
I don't know very much about the business end of corporate buyouts or corporate software licensing, but I'll assume that you are accurate with your facts and your speculation. Furthermore, I do totally respect your opinion about Frankel, under certain circumstances, I would probably agree with you; I just want him to get a fair defense.
You say that, of him, that "yamering on in public about [his] former employer is at best pretty immature." While this is true, he isn't guilty of this particular thing (at least in the links that slashdot provided; i would welcome others if you have them). In fact, he says (of AOLTW), "I have nothing but respect for the company". All he claims is that the company owns his code, and it seem to me that you agree with that statement.
If there was financial timing involved, its possible that he came to his conclusion about leaving a while ago (perhaps after gnutella got ganked), and just postponed his departure until after he was financially secure. This too, to me, is totally valid; its a lot easier to practice your art (whatever that may be) if you don't have to worry about money. Four years of compromise might mean, for Frankel, a lifetime of doing just what he's wanted.
Which brings us to WASTE. First of all, I need to plead ignorance here; perhaps you can explain to me why Mozilla folk can release GPL code while still working for AOLTW, and Frankel can't. Is it a difference in their contracts? If so, do you have access to their contracts to show me the differences? But alas, I promised to assume that your factual information is accurate. So, he did something wrong and illegal by claiming to release GPLed code under Nullsoft. However, I'd like to think that this is another part of self-expression, perhaps similar to graffiti (which, although it is wrong, and ought to be wrong, is still sometimes beautiful/powerful art, and a real form of self expression). Sometimes, the method of communicating your art (in his case, as his last act of working for Nullsoft) is as important as the art itself. It sounds illogical, and grounded more in romantic ideals than in fact, but I can imagine that being important to Frankel.
Thanks for your comment, and please respond or email me if I've misrepresented your opinion in any way.
They don't know anything that IBM and Novell don't. They're bluffing. And now their stock is 3-4 times higher than it was before this business, so there's your reason for the bluff. Here's a chart from Yahoo: SCOX 3 month stock prices.
I think you're right; every one of the technologies that I've seen mentioned already exists (and is even in use today). However, I think we are pretty close to a breakthrough in many of these areas; as a few fringe technologies mature, I think we'll begin to see totaly new gadgets. The thing is, law enforcement agents, soldiers, etc. can't be counting on untried, untested technology, so I'm sure that manufacturers cater to a far more conversative crowd.
If you want new exciting technologies, this is probably not the place to look.
Not the problematic ones. According to the post, this only deals with harddrives that have 40gb platters. The real problematic deskstar drives (GXP75,GXP60) had smaller platters (15 gb, 20 gb respectively i think).
Its fantastic that they are releasing it for free, and I'm very grateful that development took place for GNU/Linux and win32 concurrently. However, I'd still like to see a quality open source FPS sometime. It is important to note that this is still "free as in beer", not "as in speech".
Thanks for that link.
From what I saw there, it seems to me that describing the competition as a search for the "most logical minds" is probably inaccurate. Although many solutions can probably divined by logic, it seems to me that most of the solutions require a more creative mind to solve within the time limit. Any thoughts?
I think the ability to program is far more valuable than the marginal hand-eye coordination/spacial orientation that playing video games offers. You should feel fortunate that you childhood was spent in more valuable ways; I pissed mine away with nintendo, and sometimes I regret it.
Wow, so much stupidity; where should I start?
Firstly, you seem to assume that corporations think through things exhaustively. You know, the way Microsoft had already "thought out and prevented" any concievable hack on its products? Phoenix is by no means perfect, and the price of making a mistake in implementing this kind of technology is a few orders of magnitude higher than most other technologies. Being able to take control of somebody's system at the BIOS level is no joke. Spoofing is a obvious flaw that needs to be looked at in this situation. Implementing something to exploit a flaw like this would be neither "clever" nor "outlandish".
Secondly, and more importantly, I don't post for the benefit of Phoenix, or Microsoft, or you. I post for my benefit in the hopes that people will intelligently respond to my opinions, helping me to refine my ideas. I'd just as soon they didn't read this discussion (and yes, it is actually a discussion, so you don't have to make it a quotation).
I do have to commend you on your choice in making yourself anonymous, however. Comments like that could damage your reputation...
That simply isn't the case. Lilo is resident on hard drives, so lilo isn't even in memory until BIOS reads from the master boot record. BIOS can choose to perform any number of tasks before it does that particular operation, including erasing the hard drive, or giving out its IP to anyone it cares to.
I wonder if that kind of system would be vulnerable to spoofing attacks? That would be a pretty nasty trick to play on someone; erase their hard drive by puting a phoenix spoofing server on their network.
That makes a good deal of sense, and you are probably right (in that Gates will probably never release Office for Linux). However, it seems to me that given the mentality you just described, Office for Mac OS should never have been released. How do you explain that? Now, I realize that Mac OS isn't the same kind of threat as Linux, but once upon a time, it was probably the biggest obstacle to MS in terms of totally owning the consumer computer market.
respectfully, qortra
It really depends on how you define "action". Encryption seems to me to be even more exciting a field. It isn't as glamorous as game programming, but the math involved is amazingly interesting (advanced number theory, primality), and good encryption tends to last for longer than good game engines.
3D rendering is not entirely about math (probably a lot more to do with studying the brain and how people generally interpret images that they see). Encryption however is ALL math. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.
Or, you can post them at both places and thus start a discussion at Slashdot. I'm sure some of the lamer question don't even have to be debated; I can answer them for you...
You are undoubtedly right that even most seasoned hackers would probabloy not be experienced enough to secure a network. However, Morse's business model seems to be based on first penetrating a network, in order to secure the business of a client by demonstrating its vulnerability (a la Sneakers, an excellent movie). And then, of course, securing a network. If I had to guess, Morse probably has entirely different teams for each of these processes. Now, you could argue that black hat hackers can't be trusted, and I wouldn't put up a fight. But, purely from a skill set point of view, black hat hackers would probably most qualified for the "penetrate" portion of a job. regards, qortra
I'm not sure that we're disagreeing as much as you think we are. I just think we should be giving Ardour our support because I do think it is the future.
:-P
That being said, I don't know why you're taking issue with the fact that ProTools in most sane incarnations is not at all free. ProTools (which, of course, does run on any recent version of Windows or MacOS) is an expensive proposition for anyone; sometimes 5 digits, as you've mentioned. And it might be worth it. However, saying that ProTools software is FREE with the appropriate hardware is like saying that a Ferrari Engine is free with the purchase of the chassis (which is incidently the same price as the whole car). The only truly free version of Protools is, as you mentioned, ProTools Free. And its, as I've said, only available for windows 9x kernels, or Mac OS verions
Now, I'll admit that TDM is a brilliant system. It tends to work pretty well for a lot of people. However, I still maintain that under certain circumstances, PCs should be able to run quite a few non-destructive effects on quite a few tracks if optimized. Sure, third party developers (like Line 6) would need to develope their products with an x86 or PPC instruction set in mind. If you run out of processing power on a workstation, you actually can get a faster processor, sometimes a cheaper proposition than buying a $400 farmcard. You can also buy multi-processor systems that would improve Ardour's performance quite nicely. Incidently, dual processor motherboards (and the cost of another processor) are also cheaper than $400 farmcards in some cases.
I do believe you that most PCs right now (perhaps not any) can run full mixes (with dozens of tracks as you say you do) and many non-destructive effects. However, I do think that by the time Ardour matures (not this June, or perhaps the June after, but soon nevertheless), the processing power will be there, and then I think that host-processing based solutions will eclipse modular,proprietary solutions like ProTools TDM.
regards, qortra
also, feel free to email me about this; I would be interested to hear what you have to say, and doubtless, nobody on slashdot is watching anymore