I definitely agree with you that the optimizations aren't the real reason to use Gentoo. Right now, the learning process is key to me, later on, the package management is what's going to keep me hooked. Remember, I'm coming from the Redhat-based world of RPM hell, so Portage is a huge step forward for me. It may not be the absolute best, but I like it.:)
Really, what I'm enjoying right now is the fact that I know exactly what's on the machine, and that I can add or remove packages at will with a single, simple command line call. Or that I can check for updates and patch them just as easily.
Most people do focus on the "from source" nature of Gentoo, but that's really only a small part of it. Gentoo's still a relatively young distribution, and I think that it's yet to fully define itself. I think that as it matures, there will still be a bleeding edge aspect to it, but that it may very well more drift towards an Unstable/Testing/Stable type system much like Debian. Really, it's already starting to happen - the ~x86 keyword for example, and the "heresy" of distributing binaries.:) Either way, right now, Gentoo is turning out to be the perfect distro for my current needs, and that's what matters. It may not be perfect for others, but hey, that's why we have so many different distributions. It's all about choice.
I'd be one of those new Gentoo users. I've been slowly transitioning over to it for about a week after having spent 3 years or so piddling with Mandrake and RedHat. (As a side note, I still feel that MDK is the best distro around for Linux newbs). I'm thoroughly impressed with it, and I can see why people have been making such a big deal out of Portage. I've come to feel that Gentoo is the perfect distro for the Newb++, as I've learned many things about Linux I had never known before venturing into this, despite considering myself an "intermediate" user.
Being able to start from Stage 1 really teaches you a lot about the system, while a Stage 3 (pre-compiled) install allows you to quickly deploy a system and take advantage of the Portage without waiting a full day for KDE to compile.:) I think it's this type of flexibility that attracts me to it - You can turn Gentoo into pretty much anything you want it to be.
I think Gentoo is definitely going to be my distro of choice from now on.
You have somehow managed to make references to Soviet Russia, the word "base", and SCO as well as twist your sentence structure without anyone cracking any of the standard jokes. Am I on the right Slashdot?;)
You're not the only one. Personally, I have 2 computers in my room that run full time in addition to a ceiling fan and a 10" box fan. I sleep better when everything's running than I do in a completely quiet environment. I think in my case it may be related to my ADHD. If I'm in a quiet environment, my mind will constantly wander and I'll become restless. Having the droning fan noise kind of helps my brain to shut down and let me actually sleep.
And about the only way to do this without sacrificing clockrate is by going to a smaller fabrication process. AMD and Intel only went to a.13 process a little over a year ago, and are expected to move to a.09 process either late this year or early next year. The thing is, moving to a new process isn't easy, and will often result in a higher reject rate - meaning the initial chips will probably be more expensive and (initially) limited in availability.
Actually, it wasn't, I just should've posted specs instead of a link. I had upgraded the RAM in the G5 to 1GB from the stock 512MB. That bumped the total price to $3,249.00. Sorry for the confusion.
Whoa, slow down there. If you had read through my whole post, you'd have seen that I very specifically didn't include an operating system for a number of reasons. You'd also see that the G5 including OS X was something I chalked up in the G5's favor.
I don't think noise would be as much of a problem as you make it out to be. AMD's x86-64 chips are reportedly running MUCH cooler than the current generation of CPUs, so such extreme cooling measures won't be needed. Either way, that Opteron isn't a system you could actually build anyway - ie: the Radeon 9600 and no AGP port. This list was just meant to show how commodity x86 hardware compares in price to an Apple G5, and to clear up the misnomer that a Mac is uberbucks more expensive than a comparable PC.
So in short, you basically agreed with most of what I had already said. Please read more carefully next time.
You hit on several points that I didn't simply because I didn't want to include 6 paragraphs of disclaimers along with it.:) The case I selected was simply selected because it was already in my cart from another project - laziness prevailed. And yes, it's not as nice as an Apple case. One could be found, but it'd run well over $100.
It wasn't meant to be a strictly Apple-to-apples (bad pun, I appologize;)) comparison, but rather to point out the fact that an x86 system of comparable spec isn't as cheap as my parent poster was making it out to be. The UI and OS issue were something I didn't want to touch with that post, hence why I left an operating system completely off the Opteron. Hope that clears things up some.
You know, I'm an x86 fan, and I build all my own machines simply because I enjoy it, but I have to disagree with you on the price thing. Out of curiousity due to your post, I put this together to see how a similarly spec'd PC would compare as far as pricing goes. Now compare it to Apple's offering.
I realize it's an Opteron, which is technically a server processor, but it's the only currently available chip which I would say is comparable to the G5. And yeah, there's a 9600 Pro when the mobo doesn't have an AGP slot, but that's to keep the price comparison fair. So now the premium of the apple is only ~25% instead of 1000%.
I should also note that things like an operating system and peripherals were left out of my comparison system, since that cost is going to vary due to desire/needs in the x86 world.
So basically you get a bare 1.8GHz dual Opteron for about $600 cheaper than a 2.0GHz dual G5. While, like I said, I'm an x86 fan and I like building my own systems, I could definitely rationalize a G5 purchase, and I don't exactly fall into their target demographic anyway. I really think Apple's got their act together with the G5 line. While to those of us used to building full systems of commodity hardware for a few hundred dollars, it sounds high, but in all reality, the pricing on the new systems is rather fair.
I hate you. I've now loaded up all my MC Hawking MP3s into Winamp, and will be listening to this for the next several hours lol It amazes me just how brilliant this stuff is every time I listen to it.
Re:SCO finally reveals how much code it is
on
SCO Nigerian Spam
·
· Score: 1
Congratulations, you just completed this Slashdot article by missing the point completely. Here's a doorprize, don't let the door hit you on the way out.:)
The main stumbling point for the Mac and Linux ports was the use of bink video format and the Miles sound system. Thank you for playing, try again later
The difficulty comes from short-sited code written by developers who seem the think DirectX is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Porting something that has been built with the heart of its architechture around one platform takes far longer and is usually kludgier than a system that has had portablility in mind since its inception. The disaster that has been the NWN port is a key example - the game was built around proprietary file formats and libraries that didn't have a linux (or mac) equivalent. Really, there's no excuse for this in my mind, especially on a project that was intended to be that big from the start.
Wasn't Seaquest supposed to be organic itself though? I seem to remember a few episodes where the Seaquest was damaged and it basically regrew the missing parts. Besides, I doubt we'll be building anything that deep or directly on top of volcanic vents anyway.
I believe it's generally accepted that that particular Family Guy episode is how the Soviet Russia jokes made their way onto Slashdot. Kind of like how the profit joke was taken from South Park.:)
While both you and I are appreciative, I'm sure Intel is cursing his name right about now. While only 2 people have posted about ordering them, I think it'd be rather amusing to see a graph of requests for the past month so we could see a nice little spike in requests thanks to Slashdot. And they thought it sucked when their servers get Slashdotted.:)
While I was happy being able to get my hands on IA-32 manuals for free, the fact that I can also get x86-64 manuals has made my night indeed. Thanks.:)
Wow, this is awesome. I've been looking for something similar to this, and the fact that I can get it for free makes it all the better. I have no modpoints to shower you with, so a sincere thank you will have to do.:)
Slashdot Mirror
Mandrake as country? No, no. More like french nursery rhymes!
;))
(and before I get flamed, I love MDK, but it is the hand-holding, make sure junior doesn't stick a fork in the electrical socket distro.
I definitely agree with you that the optimizations aren't the real reason to use Gentoo. Right now, the learning process is key to me, later on, the package management is what's going to keep me hooked. Remember, I'm coming from the Redhat-based world of RPM hell, so Portage is a huge step forward for me. It may not be the absolute best, but I like it. :)
:) Either way, right now, Gentoo is turning out to be the perfect distro for my current needs, and that's what matters. It may not be perfect for others, but hey, that's why we have so many different distributions. It's all about choice.
Really, what I'm enjoying right now is the fact that I know exactly what's on the machine, and that I can add or remove packages at will with a single, simple command line call. Or that I can check for updates and patch them just as easily.
Most people do focus on the "from source" nature of Gentoo, but that's really only a small part of it. Gentoo's still a relatively young distribution, and I think that it's yet to fully define itself. I think that as it matures, there will still be a bleeding edge aspect to it, but that it may very well more drift towards an Unstable/Testing/Stable type system much like Debian. Really, it's already starting to happen - the ~x86 keyword for example, and the "heresy" of distributing binaries.
I'd be one of those new Gentoo users. I've been slowly transitioning over to it for about a week after having spent 3 years or so piddling with Mandrake and RedHat. (As a side note, I still feel that MDK is the best distro around for Linux newbs). I'm thoroughly impressed with it, and I can see why people have been making such a big deal out of Portage. I've come to feel that Gentoo is the perfect distro for the Newb++, as I've learned many things about Linux I had never known before venturing into this, despite considering myself an "intermediate" user.
:) I think it's this type of flexibility that attracts me to it - You can turn Gentoo into pretty much anything you want it to be.
Being able to start from Stage 1 really teaches you a lot about the system, while a Stage 3 (pre-compiled) install allows you to quickly deploy a system and take advantage of the Portage without waiting a full day for KDE to compile.
I think Gentoo is definitely going to be my distro of choice from now on.
Simple - BSD is dying! Haven't you heard? I mean, why else would so many Slashdot posters be warning us it's coming appocalypse? ;)
You have somehow managed to make references to Soviet Russia, the word "base", and SCO as well as twist your sentence structure without anyone cracking any of the standard jokes. Am I on the right Slashdot? ;)
You're not the only one. Personally, I have 2 computers in my room that run full time in addition to a ceiling fan and a 10" box fan. I sleep better when everything's running than I do in a completely quiet environment. I think in my case it may be related to my ADHD. If I'm in a quiet environment, my mind will constantly wander and I'll become restless. Having the droning fan noise kind of helps my brain to shut down and let me actually sleep.
This being Slashdot and all, you might want to specify just what kind of fluids you're talking about. Ya know, for your own sake.
And about the only way to do this without sacrificing clockrate is by going to a smaller fabrication process. AMD and Intel only went to a .13 process a little over a year ago, and are expected to move to a .09 process either late this year or early next year. The thing is, moving to a new process isn't easy, and will often result in a higher reject rate - meaning the initial chips will probably be more expensive and (initially) limited in availability.
Actually, it wasn't, I just should've posted specs instead of a link. I had upgraded the RAM in the G5 to 1GB from the stock 512MB. That bumped the total price to $3,249.00. Sorry for the confusion.
Whoa, slow down there. If you had read through my whole post, you'd have seen that I very specifically didn't include an operating system for a number of reasons. You'd also see that the G5 including OS X was something I chalked up in the G5's favor.
I don't think noise would be as much of a problem as you make it out to be. AMD's x86-64 chips are reportedly running MUCH cooler than the current generation of CPUs, so such extreme cooling measures won't be needed. Either way, that Opteron isn't a system you could actually build anyway - ie: the Radeon 9600 and no AGP port. This list was just meant to show how commodity x86 hardware compares in price to an Apple G5, and to clear up the misnomer that a Mac is uberbucks more expensive than a comparable PC.
So in short, you basically agreed with most of what I had already said. Please read more carefully next time.
Sorry about that. There doesn't seem to be a way to link to it directly, but here's what it was:
Dual G5 2.0Ghz
RAM upgraded to 1GB from the stock 512MB
Price: $3,249.00
Hope that clears things up for you.
You hit on several points that I didn't simply because I didn't want to include 6 paragraphs of disclaimers along with it. :) The case I selected was simply selected because it was already in my cart from another project - laziness prevailed. And yes, it's not as nice as an Apple case. One could be found, but it'd run well over $100.
;)) comparison, but rather to point out the fact that an x86 system of comparable spec isn't as cheap as my parent poster was making it out to be. The UI and OS issue were something I didn't want to touch with that post, hence why I left an operating system completely off the Opteron. Hope that clears things up some.
It wasn't meant to be a strictly Apple-to-apples (bad pun, I appologize
You know, I'm an x86 fan, and I build all my own machines simply because I enjoy it, but I have to disagree with you on the price thing. Out of curiousity due to your post, I put this together to see how a similarly spec'd PC would compare as far as pricing goes. Now compare it to Apple's offering.
I realize it's an Opteron, which is technically a server processor, but it's the only currently available chip which I would say is comparable to the G5. And yeah, there's a 9600 Pro when the mobo doesn't have an AGP slot, but that's to keep the price comparison fair. So now the premium of the apple is only ~25% instead of 1000%.
I should also note that things like an operating system and peripherals were left out of my comparison system, since that cost is going to vary due to desire/needs in the x86 world. So basically you get a bare 1.8GHz dual Opteron for about $600 cheaper than a 2.0GHz dual G5. While, like I said, I'm an x86 fan and I like building my own systems, I could definitely rationalize a G5 purchase, and I don't exactly fall into their target demographic anyway. I really think Apple's got their act together with the G5 line. While to those of us used to building full systems of commodity hardware for a few hundred dollars, it sounds high, but in all reality, the pricing on the new systems is rather fair.
I hate you. I've now loaded up all my MC Hawking MP3s into Winamp, and will be listening to this for the next several hours lol It amazes me just how brilliant this stuff is every time I listen to it.
Well, of course. Carmack is God.
;)
You must be new here.
Congratulations, you just completed this Slashdot article by missing the point completely. Here's a doorprize, don't let the door hit you on the way out. :)
The main stumbling point for the Mac and Linux ports was the use of bink video format and the Miles sound system. Thank you for playing, try again later
The difficulty comes from short-sited code written by developers who seem the think DirectX is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Porting something that has been built with the heart of its architechture around one platform takes far longer and is usually kludgier than a system that has had portablility in mind since its inception. The disaster that has been the NWN port is a key example - the game was built around proprietary file formats and libraries that didn't have a linux (or mac) equivalent. Really, there's no excuse for this in my mind, especially on a project that was intended to be that big from the start.
- 17" HP Monitor (runs at 1600x1200
:) )
- XP Comp attached to said monitor
- 4 or 5 programming books shoved between computer and monitor
- DSL modem and 4 port router
- left front speaker from my 5.1 setup
- screwdriver
- roll of scotch tape
- 15" monitor
- Gentoo box
- Panasonic 3DO
:)
- stack of about 10 DVDs
- larger stack of about 30 CDs in jewel cases
- random assortment of bills and bank statements
- cell phone and charger
- soldering iron and solder
- a couple of empty cups
- a couple of comp games in the small boxes
- a good bit more random crap that I don't feel like categorizing
Seeing that my list is about a third the size of your's makes me feel a little bit less geek. But then again, geekiness is a relative thing here.Wasn't Seaquest supposed to be organic itself though? I seem to remember a few episodes where the Seaquest was damaged and it basically regrew the missing parts. Besides, I doubt we'll be building anything that deep or directly on top of volcanic vents anyway.
I believe it's generally accepted that that particular Family Guy episode is how the Soviet Russia jokes made their way onto Slashdot. Kind of like how the profit joke was taken from South Park. :)
Maybe he didn't realize that Intel, AMD, and VIA chips all use IA-32? And not all of Slashdot is attacking you. Hell, about now, you're my hero. :)
While both you and I are appreciative, I'm sure Intel is cursing his name right about now. While only 2 people have posted about ordering them, I think it'd be rather amusing to see a graph of requests for the past month so we could see a nice little spike in requests thanks to Slashdot. And they thought it sucked when their servers get Slashdotted. :)
While I was happy being able to get my hands on IA-32 manuals for free, the fact that I can also get x86-64 manuals has made my night indeed. Thanks. :)
Wow, this is awesome. I've been looking for something similar to this, and the fact that I can get it for free makes it all the better. I have no modpoints to shower you with, so a sincere thank you will have to do. :)