"On Columbia first flight tiles were lost and they DID use those assests and got good photos then." they were looking for a patch of missing tiles. In this instance, they would have needed to look for a crack in a tile. big difference.
We don't know if the missing tile was simply cracked or totally gone. It is doubtful a cracked tile would have caused a catastrophic loss of the shuttle. I'm not saying that photos would have been proof positive of the situation. I am expressing surprise that they were not used on the chance it might give useful info. You can't know unless you try. And past photos HAVE proven helpful. So why didn't they this time?
NASA has either grossly misestimated, in public, the amount of possible damage from a foam hit or all this public speculation about tile damage is for naught. Yet NASA has not said that it is physically impossible that the tiles were damaged by the foam hit. Yet they apparently thought such damage couldn't be significant. The shuttle was traveling about Mach 2 when the foam broke off. Now it did tumble and it was mostly at free fall but that still implies that it hit the shuttle with great inertia. I can't see how that could be considered to not be significant. This piece was the largest to strike a shuttle and struck on the underside which is one of the worse places to have tile damage. The debris plume is also quite large. The piece is seen going behind the wing near where the wing joins the main fuselage of the shuttle. Yet the plume expands out beyond the edge of the wing.
Also this is not the first time foam has hit the shuttle. Internal memos and reports are being leaked that as early as 1998 reports of possible significant damage have been reported in the media. To me it sounds like a known problem existed that wasn't properly addressed and they tried to avoid dealing with it. And it is not like this kind of shit hasn't happened before. The whole Challenger disaster was one cover up after another.
atlantis could be up in 5 days under emergency situations(skipped safety check). Obviously, they would put the extra needed space suits and take it with them.
Remember there is no airlock. Just how would they have transferred the suits to the crew? Once they depressurize the cabin they can't repressurize it. D'oh! There is no rescue plan. You either come back in the same ship you go up in or you DON'T come back. Deal with it. One of the reasons that I think Shuttle is too dangerous is because of that.
I for one have a problem with the assement. They opted NOT to use spy sats and telescopes to look at the shuttle based on ONE past use that provided no usefull information.
On Columbia first flight tiles were lost and they DID use those assests and got good photos then.
So what to make of the statement? Did they really look, then lied to the public and the crew, that they found out the truth or did they just not use the assets at hand because there was no point?
They other statement that is repeated is that even if they knew about the damage there was NOTHING they could do. This implies that they have in advance ruled out any possiblility of rushing a shuttle to launch to rescue a stranded crew. That in of inself is not really suprising. I really doubt that a Shuttle that takes nearly 6 months of work to be preped could be rushed up safely to go up and rescue the doomed shuttle. (And even if you could go up, then what? Columbia had no space suits, no docking ring, and no airlock. The orange suits are pressure suits not space suits and lack radiation protection and are not easy to move in at ZERO pressure. They are intended for low pressure use not zero.)
So basicly you have the opition of spending time and money to find out for sure that the shuttle is doomed and having NOTHING that can be done about it or just closing your eyes crossing your fingers and hoping that it will be OK. I can see how a NASA boss might choose the latter. I certianly wouldn't want to be the one to say to the crew that they are screwed. In the Apollo days it was rumored that they carried suicide pills to use to avoid prolonged death. I don't know if they still, if ever, do that today.
Linux doesn't have a chance to gain market share until it comes preinstalled on the majority of computers and most applications are EASY to install.
Joe Blow user that buys a computer at Best Buy does not know how to install an OS be it Windows, Linux, or OS X. And guess what, most don't want to know. And they don't have to.
They just want it to work. Linux must be preinstalled and then the apps they buy must be Linux apps and they must install as easy as dropping in the CD.
That is what the M$ Windows world is now. 99% of computers sold have Windows allready installed and most programs install by dropping in a CD and autolanching the install program.
Linux isn't there yet. Yes it more stable, yes it is mostly more secure(but you got to work at it) but Joe Blow don't know, don't care.
Linux on the desktop as mainstream will NEVER happen as long as M$ exists and they preload XP on every box made.
OS/2 in its day was the better OS but it didn't have a chance as most PC shipped with only MS-DOS/Win 3.1 preinstalled.
When Quicken, Quickbooks, and most games come out in Linux versions that install automagicly and RedHat is offered on every desktop as an option then you've got a chance. Otherwise Linux will allways be the other GEEK OS.
I haven't had the chance to read the article yet. Just skimed the site. How fault tolerant is this? What happpends if I need my data and a chunk is on a member that is offline. Is the data stored redundantly?
I am writing this on XP. Why? Because although I use Linux for my server and have Linux desktops I can't make the break with MS totally. Why because Linux fonts are so ugly and hard to read that I get eye strain.
I think alot a potential users are turned off by the sloppy appearance of Linux on the screen.
This is but one step in the direction of having Linux more accepted on the desktop. Redhat understands this. That is why Bluecurve was created. It still isn't good enough but it is better. If Openoffice and Mozilla out of the box can use these new fonts then you might have something to kill Windows with.
...what you consider "expanding" and allowing free thinking is considered corrupting and even socially distructive by others. The reason we don't allow prayer in schools is because there is no way to allow it that doesn't expose them to a viewpoint that might be in total oposition to the way I am instucting my children.
At what age is the child able to "freely" think and chose for themselves and at which point do they emulate, by rote, their parents?
Every thinking person reaches that point but to what degree and how well they do so can't be set at a fixed date. For the same reason allowing no limits is no good either. Parents are the only ones that can make that call and as they are legally responsable for their children the laws should support them and not do it for them.
Blanket laws are stupid. It doesn't matter if it is a blanket allow all freedoms to children or a blanket law blocking everything from children. Let parents be parents and make them responsable in part for what the children do.
PGP's web of trust is a good idea but how do we go about setting up the first layer of trust. With PGP you can physically meet your party to exchange keys. But that isn't possible with an e-store.
I suppose that we could get a group of well known celeberties to create the first layer of certs from which everyone else would sign off of. But how would that be better then what we are using now.
Perhaps this is the one time when the government should issue certs just like any other form of offical ID.
From what I read in Ben's article he is basicly advocating that the community hijack Mandrake. I assume that "Mandrake" is trademarked so they would have to call it something else but it could be done. I not sure why it has to be nonprofit or community based. Its GPL'd is in not? No rule saying you can't rename it something else and become a startup again.
Mandrake is a fork off of Red hat is it not?
I like Mandrake and use if for basic samba file servers and my own desktop. I would be more suportive of a new handler would keep trying to make it user friendly AND upgrade the security of it.
What if the troll post offesive words on his site and a potential customer saw the message and stop doing business with him? Some little old lady might not understand that the BBS can't be monitored 24/7. She would simply be offended and blame the owner.
"How could you let that filth be on your website."
Also the extra time and effort required to remove said Troll was costing the guy money as well.
If the guy spray painted the store or broke a window would he not be expected to pay damages? How is this different?
A support BBS on a company website != public land. It isn't slashdot. You don't have the right to say ANYTHING you want to anybody. Hell you don't even have that right on Slashdot. If OSDN decides that you are a problem they will block your IP and remove your account. You want free speech on the net then you pay for it.
Also your drum beating hobo analogy has serious flaws. In most places you can't yell and do such things without a permit. Have you never heard of "Disturbing the Peace" laws?
All freedoms have there limits: Free Speech doesn't allow you to yell fire in a theater, to incite a riot, or make obscene displays. You are only allowed "free" speech when the public lets you.
Free Press is mostly limited by resources. Yes you can print almost anything you want but the goverment doesn't have to pay for it. You do. Nor can you by force shove your pamplet in my hand.
One element if "freedom" you seem to forget is "I" also have the right to ignore you and not listen to you.
If you do anything to distrupt that right then I am allowed to stop you. See above for examples. So on MY private BBS I have the right to stop you from invading my privacy!
My Karma is fsck'd up as well. I not posting at the +2 level either. Now I had a few post that got modded flamebait(hey It was, I was in a bad mood) but the karma still shows excellent yet I not getting the bonus.
Why just because it is GPL'd is there some kind of compulsion to put the total sum of a distro company's labor on line for all to download?
Yes the GPL requires you to provide SOURCE code. It doesn't require you to provide the package already "assembled" as a distro.
There isn't anything in Mandrake that you can't download as individual programs. What makes this version of Linux become Mandrake is the effort they went to make this distro. So why give it away free? SuSE doesn't. Why do most distros do this? Isn't that shooting themselves in the wallet?
Why is "free as in Beer" a desirable goal for a company trying to sell software?
How many people have downloaded Mandrake and could have paid something to them but didn't. I confess I am one of them. Why? I am a cheap assed bastard.
But OTOH Mandrake and alot of other distros could charge but don't why the heck don't they?
The "this" in question, the Voters News Service, is funded by news networks and newspapers, not the government. They use it so that they can provide as up to the minute information on voting results as possible, and so that they can provide in depth analysis of voter behavior.
I was under the understanding the the VNS was started with government grants. I don't have the info in front of me and a google search is turning up dry so I'll withdraw it. I don't distrust the VNS system, I just thought it was amusing that it doesn't work.
As to your lists of things that I should do: I have been a voting offical. My life and my family's life was threaten when I tried to expose the fraud that occured where I used to live. While I can protest I can also be killed. I will not discuss when or where this occured. Besides that is not the point. Not every election is fixed. Indeed most are not. But the system as setup is designed to allow it to easily occur. I personaly have witnessed vote tampering of one election.
Your claim that our election system is rigged is extremely serious. If you seriously believe it, don't you owe it to yourself and your country to fight back?
Yes but I have a family I must protect as well and the system is too well entrenched. Do you not think that no vote fraud occured in Florida? On both sides. I think Bush stole the election. And I like Bush and would vote for him. But get real. As long as they try to use fancy technology and refuse to count ballots at the place of voting then we are going to have fraud.
I am trying to do something. Why do you think I post on/. ?
And yet votes still got counted. Reporters were still able to cover the votes being tallyed.
Now why do they use this? And why is it government funded?
Voting in this country is a fraud. Voting machines of any kind can be rigged. They don't count the ballots at the polling place. How do I know that my ballot box is the same one that arrives at city hall.
When Jimmy Carter goes to some third world nation to help prevent a rigged election he makes them count the votes at the polling place. How come we don't do that here?
It is a fraud. I don't vote because of it. Our rights were stolen from years ago.
They went after the publisher because that is where the money is. I would have going after the photog. Ruin one of them and maybe the rest would be less likely to take the risks. OTOH it is one down in a forest of 'em.
Slashdot Mirror
"On Columbia first flight tiles were lost and they DID use those assests and got good photos then." they were looking for a patch of missing tiles. In this instance, they would have needed to look for a crack in a tile. big difference.
We don't know if the missing tile was simply cracked or totally gone. It is doubtful a cracked tile would have caused a catastrophic loss of the shuttle. I'm not saying that photos would have been proof positive of the situation. I am expressing surprise that they were not used on the chance it might give useful info. You can't know unless you try. And past photos HAVE proven helpful. So why didn't they this time?
NASA has either grossly misestimated, in public, the amount of possible damage from a foam hit or all this public speculation about tile damage is for naught. Yet NASA has not said that it is physically impossible that the tiles were damaged by the foam hit. Yet they apparently thought such damage couldn't be significant. The shuttle was traveling about Mach 2 when the foam broke off. Now it did tumble and it was mostly at free fall but that still implies that it hit the shuttle with great inertia. I can't see how that could be considered to not be significant. This piece was the largest to strike a shuttle and struck on the underside which is one of the worse places to have tile damage. The debris plume is also quite large. The piece is seen going behind the wing near where the wing joins the main fuselage of the shuttle. Yet the plume expands out beyond the edge of the wing.
Also this is not the first time foam has hit the shuttle. Internal memos and reports are being leaked that as early as 1998 reports of possible significant damage have been reported in the media. To me it sounds like a known problem existed that wasn't properly addressed and they tried to avoid dealing with it. And it is not like this kind of shit hasn't happened before. The whole Challenger disaster was one cover up after another.
atlantis could be up in 5 days under emergency situations(skipped safety check). Obviously, they would put the extra needed space suits and take it with them.
Remember there is no airlock. Just how would they have transferred the suits to the crew? Once they depressurize the cabin they can't repressurize it. D'oh! There is no rescue plan. You either come back in the same ship you go up in or you DON'T come back. Deal with it. One of the reasons that I think Shuttle is too dangerous is because of that.
I think they decided not to know.
I for one have a problem with the assement. They opted NOT to use spy sats and telescopes to look at the shuttle based on ONE past use that provided no usefull information.
On Columbia first flight tiles were lost and they DID use those assests and got good photos then.
So what to make of the statement? Did they really look, then lied to the public and the crew, that they found out the truth or did they just not use the assets at hand because there was no point?
They other statement that is repeated is that even if they knew about the damage there was NOTHING they could do. This implies that they have in advance ruled out any possiblility of rushing a shuttle to launch to rescue a stranded crew. That in of inself is not really suprising. I really doubt that a Shuttle that takes nearly 6 months of work to be preped could be rushed up safely to go up and rescue the doomed shuttle. (And even if you could go up, then what? Columbia had no space suits, no docking ring, and no airlock. The orange suits are pressure suits not space suits and lack radiation protection and are not easy to move in at ZERO pressure. They are intended for low pressure use not zero.)
So basicly you have the opition of spending time and money to find out for sure that the shuttle is doomed and having NOTHING that can be done about it or just closing your eyes crossing your fingers and hoping that it will be OK. I can see how a NASA boss might choose the latter. I certianly wouldn't want to be the one to say to the crew that they are screwed. In the Apollo days it was rumored that they carried suicide pills to use to avoid prolonged death. I don't know if they still, if ever, do that today.
Linux doesn't have a chance to gain market share until it comes preinstalled on the majority of computers and most applications are EASY to install.
Joe Blow user that buys a computer at Best Buy does not know how to install an OS be it Windows, Linux, or OS X. And guess what, most don't want to know. And they don't have to.
They just want it to work. Linux must be preinstalled and then the apps they buy must be Linux apps and they must install as easy as dropping in the CD.
That is what the M$ Windows world is now. 99% of computers sold have Windows allready installed and most programs install by dropping in a CD and autolanching the install program.
Linux isn't there yet. Yes it more stable, yes it is mostly more secure(but you got to work at it) but Joe Blow don't know, don't care.
Linux on the desktop as mainstream will NEVER happen as long as M$ exists and they preload XP on every box made.
OS/2 in its day was the better OS but it didn't have a chance as most PC shipped with only MS-DOS/Win 3.1 preinstalled.
When Quicken, Quickbooks, and most games come out in Linux versions that install automagicly and RedHat is offered on every desktop as an option then you've got a chance. Otherwise Linux will allways be the other GEEK OS.
The way current IP laws are heading the guy would STILL have the patent on it!
Does this mean that you'll have Iraq solders running around with Pringle's cans scouting the radar sites out for Scuds to hit?
Note to tank drivers: If you have a circle'd W chalked on your tank you've been painted.
INCOMEING....
Nah! Real men use duct tape.
Silly putty is good too. Press it on your data and it picks it right up!
I haven't had the chance to read the article yet. Just skimed the site. How fault tolerant is this? What happpends if I need my data and a chunk is on a member that is offline. Is the data stored redundantly?
So THAT is what happend to Duke Nuken Forever!
I am writing this on XP. Why? Because although I use Linux for my server and have Linux desktops I can't make the break with MS totally. Why because Linux fonts are so ugly and hard to read that I get eye strain.
.02 cents.
I think alot a potential users are turned off by the sloppy appearance of Linux on the screen.
This is but one step in the direction of having Linux more accepted on the desktop. Redhat understands this. That is why Bluecurve was created. It still isn't good enough but it is better. If Openoffice and Mozilla out of the box can use these new fonts then you might have something to kill Windows with.
Just my worthless
...what you consider "expanding" and allowing free thinking is considered corrupting and even socially distructive by others. The reason we don't allow prayer in schools is because there is no way to allow it that doesn't expose them to a viewpoint that might be in total oposition to the way I am instucting my children.
At what age is the child able to "freely" think and chose for themselves and at which point do they emulate, by rote, their parents?
Every thinking person reaches that point but to what degree and how well they do so can't be set at a fixed date. For the same reason allowing no limits is no good either. Parents are the only ones that can make that call and as they are legally responsable for their children the laws should support them and not do it for them.
Blanket laws are stupid. It doesn't matter if it is a blanket allow all freedoms to children or a blanket law blocking everything from children. Let parents be parents and make them responsable in part for what the children do.
While you off killing yourself please put a new monitor and keyboard in your will for me. I'm still trying to clean the Diet Coke out of mine.
PGP's web of trust is a good idea but how do we go about setting up the first layer of trust. With PGP you can physically meet your party to exchange keys. But that isn't possible with an e-store.
I suppose that we could get a group of well known celeberties to create the first layer of certs from which everyone else would sign off of. But how would that be better then what we are using now.
Perhaps this is the one time when the government should issue certs just like any other form of offical ID.
From what I read in Ben's article he is basicly advocating that the community hijack Mandrake. I assume that "Mandrake" is trademarked so they would have to call it something else but it could be done. I not sure why it has to be nonprofit or community based. Its GPL'd is in not? No rule saying you can't rename it something else and become a startup again.
Mandrake is a fork off of Red hat is it not?
I like Mandrake and use if for basic samba file servers and my own desktop. I would be more suportive of a new handler would keep trying to make it user friendly AND upgrade the security of it.
What if the troll post offesive words on his site and a potential customer saw the message and stop doing business with him? Some little old lady might not understand that the BBS can't be monitored 24/7. She would simply be offended and blame the owner.
"How could you let that filth be on your website."
Also the extra time and effort required to remove said Troll was costing the guy money as well.
If the guy spray painted the store or broke a window would he not be expected to pay damages? How is this different?
A support BBS on a company website != public land. It isn't slashdot. You don't have the right to say ANYTHING you want to anybody. Hell you don't even have that right on Slashdot. If OSDN decides that you are a problem they will block your IP and remove your account. You want free speech on the net then you pay for it.
Also your drum beating hobo analogy has serious flaws. In most places you can't yell and do such things without a permit. Have you never heard of "Disturbing the Peace" laws?
All freedoms have there limits:
Free Speech doesn't allow you to yell fire in a theater, to incite a riot, or make obscene displays. You are only allowed "free" speech when the public lets you.
Free Press is mostly limited by resources. Yes you can print almost anything you want but the goverment doesn't have to pay for it. You do. Nor can you by force shove your pamplet in my hand.
One element if "freedom" you seem to forget is "I" also have the right to ignore you and not listen to you.
If you do anything to distrupt that right then I am allowed to stop you. See above for examples. So on MY private BBS I have the right to stop you from invading my privacy!
Ah,
Now I understand. Ok I can now set it to +1 and get the system working the way it was before.
Thanks.
My Karma is fsck'd up as well. I not posting at the +2 level either. Now I had a few post that got modded flamebait(hey It was, I was in a bad mood) but the karma still shows excellent yet I not getting the bonus.
Any clue what is up?
...to the term Kernel Panic.
OOPS is not something I want a brain surgeon or his computer to utter.
They moded me offtopic. I love it. Thanks for the laugh. Worth the karma hit.
How is this comment OFFTOPIC?
Pefectly good mod point wasted....
Why just because it is GPL'd is there some kind of compulsion to put the total sum of a distro company's labor on line for all to download?
Yes the GPL requires you to provide SOURCE code. It doesn't require you to provide the package already "assembled" as a distro.
There isn't anything in Mandrake that you can't download as individual programs. What makes this version of Linux become Mandrake is the effort they went to make this distro. So why give it away free? SuSE doesn't. Why do most distros do this? Isn't that shooting themselves in the wallet?
Why is "free as in Beer" a desirable goal for a company trying to sell software?
How many people have downloaded Mandrake and could have paid something to them but didn't. I confess I am one of them. Why? I am a cheap assed bastard.
But OTOH Mandrake and alot of other distros could charge but don't why the heck don't they?
...find all my fscking left socks. Somebody, somewhere, is hording them and I am going to find him.
The "this" in question, the Voters News Service, is funded by news networks and newspapers, not the government. They use it so that they can provide as up to the minute information on voting results as possible, and so that they can provide in depth analysis of voter behavior.
/. ?
I was under the understanding the the VNS was started with government grants. I don't have the info in front of me and a google search is turning up dry so I'll withdraw it. I don't distrust the VNS system, I just thought it was amusing that it doesn't work.
As to your lists of things that I should do: I have been a voting offical. My life and my family's life was threaten when I tried to expose the fraud that occured where I used to live. While I can protest I can also be killed. I will not discuss when or where this occured. Besides that is not the point. Not every election is fixed. Indeed most are not. But the system as setup is designed to allow it to easily occur. I personaly have witnessed vote tampering of one election.
Your claim that our election system is rigged is extremely serious. If you seriously believe it, don't you owe it to yourself and your country to fight back?
Yes but I have a family I must protect as well and the system is too well entrenched. Do you not think that no vote fraud occured in Florida? On both sides. I think Bush stole the election. And I like Bush and would vote for him. But get real. As long as they try to use fancy technology and refuse to count ballots at the place of voting then we are going to have fraud.
I am trying to do something. Why do you think I post on
And yet votes still got counted. Reporters were still able to cover the votes being tallyed.
Now why do they use this? And why is it government funded?
Voting in this country is a fraud. Voting machines of any kind can be rigged. They don't count the ballots at the polling place. How do I know that my ballot box is the same one that arrives at city hall.
When Jimmy Carter goes to some third world nation to help prevent a rigged election he makes them count the votes at the polling place. How come we don't do that here?
It is a fraud. I don't vote because of it. Our rights were stolen from years ago.
They went after the publisher because that is where the money is. I would have going after the photog. Ruin one of them and maybe the rest would be less likely to take the risks. OTOH it is one down in a forest of 'em.