I'm sure you have a good reason for wanting to do that, but none immediately comes to mind to me.
One example; we have a need to test various web browsers in various versions of OSX as well as other OS's.
At the moment we need at least 2 macs and 1 PC with VMWare to do this. I'd like to cut that down to one mac.
Good enough reason you think? And its not just us; any outfit that needs to do decent testing of various configurations benefits from being able to virtualise various OS's.
So far OSX stands out like a sore thumb for its inability to run virtualised. (Ok so it can be *forced* to run in VMWare but I'm not going to rely on that in an enterprise setting).
Its the *only* desktop OS that explicitly and specifically disallows virtualisation.
so now if you're on a bike you gotta wear a helmet now. That should save all the public from paying higher insurance rates because of increased safety and survivability right?
Won't someone please think of the emergency service workers who, thanks to helmet laws, don't have to scrape human grey-matter up off of the roads???
I think thats the main reason for those laws, not insurance, not saving lives; its saving the people who have to clean up after you from chucking their lunches quite so often.
I am extremely surprised that only openoffice packages were listed, or did you trim that down?
Its not clear from the output you posted whats going on.
The objective of my post is to illustrate the fact that when glibc goes under GPLv3 and when software begins to utilise the features of the new version of glibc, the amount of work required to produce a *pure* GPLv2 Linux distribution will explode with backporting and clean-room re-implementations and reverse-engineering. Indeed it seems plausible that a distribution going down this path (as Novell seem to be set on) would fall far short of what Linux users have come to expect of a distribution; it would barely deserve the title 'distribution'. The Novell Linux offerings have already got a pretty darn sparse list of available packages.
In Debian I get a few *pages* of packages which would be ripped out... I am certain that the list would be almost as long on a Suse Linux Enterprise Server box (aside from the rather impoverished list of packages available to SLES).
root@somehost:~# apt-get remove libc6 Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages will be REMOVED:
a2ps aalib1 adduser agsync akode amanda-client amanda-common amanda-server amor apache apache-common apache2-utils apcupsd
apcupsd-cgi apt apt-utils aptitude ark arts artsbuilder at atftpd atlantik atlantikdesigner base-config base-files
base-passwd bash bc bin86 bind9-host binutils bison bittornado bittornado-gui bittorrent blackbox bluefish bsdmainutils [a few pages later] WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
apt libc6 (due to apt) libgcc1 (due to apt) libstdc++5 (due to apt) base-files base-passwd (due to base-files) bash passwd
(due to bash) libncurses5 (due to bash) bsdutils coreutils libacl1 (due to coreutils) debianutils diff dpkg dselect (due
to dpkg) e2fsprogs e2fslibs (due to e2fsprogs) libblkid1 (due to e2fsprogs) libcomerr2 (due to e2fsprogs) libss2 (due to
e2fsprogs) libuuid1 (due to e2fsprogs) findutils grep gzip hostname login libpam-modules (due to login) libpam0g (due to
login) mount ncurses-bin perl-base sed sysvinit initscripts (due to sysvinit) tar util-linux slang1a-utf8 (due to
util-linux) zlib1g (due to util-linux) 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1114 to remove and 3 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 1957MB disk space will be freed. You are about to do something potentially harmful To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
the sysadmins I work with want to install every single new technology the day it goes beta. It's encouraged in the name of "innovation", which I agree with.
What you have to do when talking with management about such issues, is to liberaly use such words and phrases as "untried", "untested", "unproven", "not ready for the enterprise".
You have to make sure that the people above you are made totally aware that if they settle on some unproven solution that any downtime or other problems that result will be their responsibility.
You have to spell this out to them and make sure that you do so in front of other people, not in a private, closed-door meeting.
Theres nothing that scares the bejeesus out of management quite so much.
By yesterday, Microsoft made more money on Vista than OSX has in its entire lifespan.i>
Considering how much was spent on developing Vista ($billions) it seems very implausible that $billions+n has been recouped by Microsoft at this point in time, for any value of n.
You did say "made more money on Vista"; at this stage, Vista has made a net *loss* not a profit.
The enterprise IT world *needs* people with mature attitudes.
I'm a sysadmin, not a programmer so this may come across off-topic, but there is a lesson to be learned with respect to mature vs *cough*immature*cough* people in the world of IT.
Most of the people working in this area at the moment are very young and enthusiastic. Thats not a bad thing in itself; its bad when they start 'playing' with systems on which other peoples livelyhoods depend.
They are often people who think its ok to introduce fascinating new technologies into the enterprise machine room because they *love* to tinker with shiny new stuff "ooooh Linux iscsi on all our servers! Wheeeee!!!".
Its bad when you have IT professionals who so love fixing computer problems that they don't mind being woken up by a pager at 3am; for them its a wonderful opportunity to wrestle with a computer problem.
The mature attitude says that computers should not wake people with a 3am pager call; they should not go wrong in the first place. It says that you should not introduce bleeding-edge technologies into important systems. It says that stability and reliability are very important.
Same sort of thing applies to coding I guess, but not being a coder, take no notice of me.
Honestly, that was my first thought when I saw a Wraith queen for the first time "gaaaahhh!! Its Marilyn Manson!!!". Turned out that it was a different actor (actress even).
But he'd be a great special guest star. I wonder if they've approached him about it?
So how, exactly, is this any different from the traditional volcano-god appeasement technique of throwing hundreds of naked virgins into the volcano? Apart from being less exciting.
That's not funny; it's sad. Intellectual property rights are demonized by those who don't understand them.
You could say the same thing about god. I'd certainly demonize the 'god' of the old testament. In fact, 'demonic' seems downright appropriate for that particular imaginary menace.
And I don't believe that there is any such thing as 'intellectual property' so its not as if I don't believe in it (ie believe that it is a bad idea) I just don't believe that it *exists* full stop. Its just make-believe. Much like god. And every bit as demonic as the god of the old testament/jews/moslems.
I wonder how many sincere businesses are scammed themselves by big talking advertising firms promising the sun and the moon if they spend a lot on advertising with them.
Yes, I imagine that they are just like law firms (who encourage their clients to take up legal action just so the lawyers (on both sides) can profit).
You only need to look at alt.sex.stories and then only at the headers of the articles not the actual content... (they use tags to describe the nature of the stories).
Most of it is incest, pedophilia, necrophila or bestiality (and thats not an exclusive-or).
Almost all of the pedophilia stories are also incest stories.
There are few incest stories which are not also pedophilia stories.
And amazingly enough, most of it seems to be generated from within the USA.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm sure you have a good reason for wanting to do that, but none immediately comes to mind to me.
One example; we have a need to test various web browsers in various versions of OSX as well as other OS's.
At the moment we need at least 2 macs and 1 PC with VMWare to do this. I'd like to cut that down to one mac.
Good enough reason you think? And its not just us; any outfit that needs to do decent testing of various configurations benefits from being able to virtualise various OS's.
So far OSX stands out like a sore thumb for its inability to run virtualised. (Ok so it can be *forced* to run in VMWare but I'm not going to rely on that in an enterprise setting).
Its the *only* desktop OS that explicitly and specifically disallows virtualisation.
so now if you're on a bike you gotta wear a helmet now. That should save all the public from paying higher insurance rates because of increased safety and survivability right?
Won't someone please think of the emergency service workers who, thanks to helmet laws, don't have to scrape human grey-matter up off of the roads???
I think thats the main reason for those laws, not insurance, not saving lives; its saving the people who have to clean up after you from chucking their lunches quite so often.
Tell me again why a MAC user would _want_ to run vista on their MAC?
Because they can't run OSX on a MAC (ie in a VM on a MAC)?
Apple moves into VM?
Maybe, but in a very sluggish and almost useless way.
Call me when I can run OSX on a VM under OSX. Oh and in such a way as its supported both by Apple and the vendor of the VM system.
Tell me that I'm wrong and that Apple supports running OSX in a VM, go on I'd like that. A lot.
Is there an upside to this?
Well if you were an ET concerned about the possible spread of human-infestation then yes, there is the upside of them fencing themselves in...
I am extremely surprised that only openoffice packages were listed, or did you trim that down?
Its not clear from the output you posted whats going on.
The objective of my post is to illustrate the fact that when glibc goes under GPLv3 and when software begins to utilise the features of the new version of glibc, the amount of work required to produce a *pure* GPLv2 Linux distribution will explode with backporting and clean-room re-implementations and reverse-engineering. Indeed it seems plausible that a distribution going down this path (as Novell seem to be set on) would fall far short of what Linux users have come to expect of a distribution; it would barely deserve the title 'distribution'. The Novell Linux offerings have already got a pretty darn sparse list of available packages.
In Debian I get a few *pages* of packages which would be ripped out... I am certain that the list would be almost as long on a Suse Linux Enterprise Server box (aside from the rather impoverished list of packages available to SLES).
root@somehost:~# apt-get remove libc6
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
a2ps aalib1 adduser agsync akode amanda-client amanda-common amanda-server amor apache apache-common apache2-utils apcupsd
apcupsd-cgi apt apt-utils aptitude ark arts artsbuilder at atftpd atlantik atlantikdesigner base-config base-files
base-passwd bash bc bin86 bind9-host binutils bison bittornado bittornado-gui bittorrent blackbox bluefish bsdmainutils
[a few pages later]
WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed
This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
apt libc6 (due to apt) libgcc1 (due to apt) libstdc++5 (due to apt) base-files base-passwd (due to base-files) bash passwd
(due to bash) libncurses5 (due to bash) bsdutils coreutils libacl1 (due to coreutils) debianutils diff dpkg dselect (due
to dpkg) e2fsprogs e2fslibs (due to e2fsprogs) libblkid1 (due to e2fsprogs) libcomerr2 (due to e2fsprogs) libss2 (due to
e2fsprogs) libuuid1 (due to e2fsprogs) findutils grep gzip hostname login libpam-modules (due to login) libpam0g (due to
login) mount ncurses-bin perl-base sed sysvinit initscripts (due to sysvinit) tar util-linux slang1a-utf8 (due to
util-linux) zlib1g (due to util-linux)
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1114 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 1957MB disk space will be freed.
You are about to do something potentially harmful
To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
try this on a debian/ubuntu system:
apt-get remove libc6
I guess that mean we must stop moonwalking all over the place or be sued by Michael Jackson.
And I suppose that molesting little boys or chimps would be *right* out!
the sysadmins I work with want to install every single new technology the day it goes beta. It's encouraged in the name of "innovation", which I agree with.
What you have to do when talking with management about such issues, is to liberaly use such words and phrases as "untried", "untested", "unproven", "not ready for the enterprise".
You have to make sure that the people above you are made totally aware that if they settle on some unproven solution that any downtime or other problems that result will be their responsibility.
You have to spell this out to them and make sure that you do so in front of other people, not in a private, closed-door meeting.
Theres nothing that scares the bejeesus out of management quite so much.
By yesterday, Microsoft made more money on Vista than OSX has in its entire lifespan.i>
Considering how much was spent on developing Vista ($billions) it seems very implausible that $billions+n has been recouped by Microsoft at this point in time, for any value of n.
You did say "made more money on Vista"; at this stage, Vista has made a net *loss* not a profit.
The enterprise IT world *needs* people with mature attitudes.
I'm a sysadmin, not a programmer so this may come across off-topic, but there is a lesson to be learned with respect to mature vs *cough*immature*cough* people in the world of IT.
Most of the people working in this area at the moment are very young and enthusiastic. Thats not a bad thing in itself; its bad when they start 'playing' with systems on which other peoples livelyhoods depend.
They are often people who think its ok to introduce fascinating new technologies into the enterprise machine room because they *love* to tinker with shiny new stuff "ooooh Linux iscsi on all our servers! Wheeeee!!!".
Its bad when you have IT professionals who so love fixing computer problems that they don't mind being woken up by a pager at 3am; for them its a wonderful opportunity to wrestle with a computer problem.
The mature attitude says that computers should not wake people with a 3am pager call; they should not go wrong in the first place. It says that you should not introduce bleeding-edge technologies into important systems. It says that stability and reliability are very important.
Same sort of thing applies to coding I guess, but not being a coder, take no notice of me.
Marilyn Manson may be a queen, but he isn't Goth
I didn't say he was a goth; he looks like a Wraith queen. Which also happens to look a bit like a disgruntled goth.
The "best" theory I heard about that was the collision of Tiamat with Marduk
We just have to keep an eye out for those Nefilim who come back every 12,000 years or so.
Did you by any chance read "The Twelfth Planet"?
don't even think about waking up the goth aliens
And their queen; Marilyn Manson.
Honestly, that was my first thought when I saw a Wraith queen for the first time "gaaaahhh!! Its Marilyn Manson!!!". Turned out that it was a different actor (actress even).
But he'd be a great special guest star. I wonder if they've approached him about it?
Not now maybe... but if they carry on like this then they will.
Theres an old salesmans saying:
"Sell to the masses, live with the classes. Sell to the classes, live with the masses."
Where 'the classes' are the 'enterprise customers'.
Like the corporation as a 'legal person'. And I don't think that 'beneficial' nor 'useful' apply to either.
And I still disbelieve in it.
they keep the virgins for themselves and throw just the clothes into the volcano
Oh hey good one. I'll have to remember that for next time I'm in front of the ethics committee.
So how, exactly, is this any different from the traditional volcano-god appeasement technique of throwing hundreds of naked virgins into the volcano? Apart from being less exciting.
That's not funny; it's sad. Intellectual property rights are demonized by those who don't understand them.
You could say the same thing about god. I'd certainly demonize the 'god' of the old testament. In fact, 'demonic' seems downright appropriate for that particular imaginary menace.
And I don't believe that there is any such thing as 'intellectual property' so its not as if I don't believe in it (ie believe that it is a bad idea) I just don't believe that it *exists* full stop. Its just make-believe. Much like god. And every bit as demonic as the god of the old testament/jews/moslems.
However, this presupposes that people have the freedom to direct their attention where they would like to
Attention is something which can easily be manipulated and directed. Ask anyone whos had anything to do with hypnosis.
And advertising is mostly a subtle form of hypnosis; its about altering someones mental state in a direction which suits the advertiser.
People are amenable to suggestion, and through suggestion their attention is easily diverted and directed.
Advertising is a subtle and insidious attempt at mind control.
I wonder how many sincere businesses are scammed themselves by big talking advertising firms promising the sun and the moon if they spend a lot on advertising with them.
Yes, I imagine that they are just like law firms (who encourage their clients to take up legal action just so the lawyers (on both sides) can profit).
Without advertising, many businesses would lose vital revenue.
Yes, there are many poorly run businesses which could not survive without advertising.
As Lawhon says in "The selling bible", the main use of advertising is overcoming the effect of dissatisfied customers.
I guess it's better to get out your feeling in writing rather than physical actions like, I dunno, molesting children. Basic psychology
Yeah but at the same time I can't help but think that many of these stories are based on the personal experiences of the authors.
Indeed, a quick google search turned up this
Pah, google?
You only need to look at alt.sex.stories and then only at the headers of the articles not the actual content... (they use tags to describe the nature of the stories).
Most of it is incest, pedophilia, necrophila or bestiality (and thats not an exclusive-or).
Almost all of the pedophilia stories are also incest stories.
There are few incest stories which are not also pedophilia stories.
And amazingly enough, most of it seems to be generated from within the USA.