No, no, you want real pain, and a smack in the face to all of us -- as well as this guy, of course, who's been doing this for months
How soon before Nintendo, who just dropped the gba price to $80, starts marketing a new model, with a light like this one, to re-sell to everyone who purchased one of the current crap-screen models, simultaneously revealing their plan to screw us, and rendering this great work a nice experiment but nothing more?
speaking of booksellers, what we need is a semi-legal petition-esque commitment to privacy from booksellers, some kind of form or list or something. you sign it, the HNice Booksellers for the First Amendment Society certifies you, you get to put a little gomezy icon on your site or door. This way, there would be a quick and easy (although maybe non-binding) way to distinguish between the booksellers that we should be using, and those who would turn over their purchase histories without a fight.
Yeah, this sounds like basically the setup the last time that i checked, too -- which, admittedly, was about a year ago.
Your point about the licensing fees is well-taken, and of course there's all the service agreements, too.
I guess that I'm not having trouble believing that their data takes a huge setup and support, i'm having trouble believing that it's not worth it to a lot of people -- the value of this data is proportional to its evil, which was great indeed. for all the 'unique profile' laughter, when this worked, it was a data-collection technique with no competition, simply for its ubiquity of collection points.
this is only true if you limit your consideration of technologies to consideration of firearms and boats. your statement concerning the difference in intelligence clearly illustrates the power that superios IT -- whether it was roads, horses, or passenger pigeons -- had, even then.
You're right, of course -- and given that this is the case, doesn't this seem like a strange move, to get completely out of tracking? Their dart tags had termendous potential for tracking people, given the ubiquity of DC-served ads. What does it really cost them to keep tracking this stuff, besides a few more boxes in back -- which they already own, btw?
Sure, there are other overhead issues here when it comes to analysis or putting a front-end on the collected data, but the one and only time i used dc data in my modeling, i made them give it to me raw, which they did with a little arm-twisting.
Just seems a little baby-bathwateresque, with the hardware and the software already in place to chuck the whole thing. Are they really doing this? And does anyone know why?
PS -- i know they're evil. that makes this seem *more* strange, not less.
man, i got slammed -- i made a similar joke above, and signed it feanor, but no one got it, and it got modded down as flamebait. sigh. i guess that's all we can expect from the moderators today.
actually, though, galadrial gives frodo a phial full of light. the more apt comparison is to the silmarils themselves, gems which feanor created containing the light of the two trees of valionr, and which morgoth stole. ah, morgoth. there's a bad guy for you.
who the hell keeps rating this down? it was a joke about the silmarils, you philistines! or are you all only capable of fathoming books that have been made into movies?
this is a good point -- although the fact that sega failed so miserably does make me wonder if it will work. the numbers just weren't there, in terms of people signing up.
yeah, it's just that most people didn't need me to point out that i meant 'non-necessary peripheral'. the mem card wasn't a peripheral, it was a part of the console that sony knew they could charge extra for. same for 2d controller.
let's not get involved in 'ff is stale' or 'your console suX0rs' discussions. the issue here, as much as i love square, is the hardware.
7 syllables to remember for the console industry, and if you don't believe me, ask sega's hardware division: no one buys peripherals.
they'll buy an extra controller. they'll buy a hundred games. they'll pay an isp. but no one drops $100 on anything, once they've spent $300 on a console that plays mgs2, ffx, gta3, gran turismo, and ico just fine already. it's been tried, dozens of times, and it doesn't just fail, it puts companies out of business.
now, sony's not going out of business on its hard drive/ethernet combo. i'm going to buy one. but i'm giant sucker with lots of disposable income who must play ff. but (slashdot aside) there aren't that many like me -- not enough to make this work. there were only 300k phantasy star online players, and that didn't even require hardware. sony will be lucky to get 250k people to buy their $100 hardware, and square may get half of those to PlayOnline. compare that to the millions of units of, say, ffix they've sold.
i know, i know, a usb ethernet adapter -- you can also make your linux machine into a gateway for halo, but how many people are doing *that*? again, not counting me;)
i want square to do well here. and maybe other consoles will help, although last i read, they're thinking about nintendo and not ms, and the cube also has no connection. but the hardware is the issue here, and for all ff's sweet, chocolatey goodness, it's not going to sell much hardware.
First, and I'm a fairly rabid Sega fan, "the most sucessful Christmas Dreamcast ever had" is true, but it hurts. You're right, of course -- it's just that at the end of the day this rings hollow given the hindsight that we've got.
Second, exactly. The only distinction that I would make is that the PS2's 2d Christmas is turning out to be just vast -- the software sales, which is, of course, where the loot is, are about 5:1 compared to console sales right now. That's HUGE.
Third, I'll tell you this -- XBox sales were off last week something like 85 % from their first week numbers. *That* is a powerful figure -- satiate the fanboys, give the rest of us enough time to lust after halo but realize that there's not much else, and what have you got? An installed base of a million, compared to ps2's 9 million -- and ps1's 45 million domestically?
I'm not a sony fan, or hater. But they own the console space. And as you point out, the big N doesn't care either way, becase of Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pokemon.
I do wish i could play some halo, tho....
Hey, also, if you want an indication of how things are going, go check ebay -- it's very interesting. xbox's are going for anywhere from $260 - $320. that's less than retail in many cases. uh oh! for comparison, and i haven't done any rigorous analysis, cubes seem to be going for retail + 0 to 20 %.
On this topic, and now i'm wandering, is anyone doing statistical analysis with regards to modeling ebay bidding over time? I'm thinking about it a lot lately.
Not to trump this with outside info -- you're right about the differing periods -- but sales of XBox, at least, have fallen off precipitously since week 1. Not sure of %, but I'm sure we could hunt this down. Conversely, PS2 sales are up over the same period. So if we were to extrapolate on this basis, and not merely apply a multiplier of 5/4 or whatever, the discrepancy in ps2's favor is actually greater than there #s show.
To say "it's been out longer" as though that's not a good reason to buy a console misses the point. It would be more meaningful to say, "it's been sucessful after a year and change". At this time last year, dreamcast had been out longer than PS2, by about the same amount, but had few big games on the horizon, and had been losing 3d parties left and right. And you can talk about the reasons for this, but the fact is that, not only has sony got a lead, they've made good given that lead -- just as the new systems hit the market, you get GTA3, FFX, MGS2, and all sorts of other games that may or may not be associated with acronyms.
What i think it *is* fair to say is that the fact that PS2 is outselling either of the 2 new systems isn't symptomatic of the futures of either of those systems. Nintendo always has a slow start, but they're in it for the long haul, and they've shown a consistent ability to milk their franchises. And Microsoft, well, whatever, they'll probably just release the next version of office only for xbox so all their corporate customers have to buy them, so they're ensured of success.
Re:it's all in the games
on
XBox Released
·
· Score: 2
This is so not the point -- the two consoles are going head up NOW, not a year from now when the XBox might actually have more then ten games.
But to your point, MS's lineup for *next* year sucks. This time last year, Sony had a shitty lineup, but they had a lot in the works. Where's the MGS2? Where's the Tony Hawk 3? Where's the GTA? Where's the Final Fantasy? The Devil May Cry? The list of games being hyped then was really, really long -- what's Microsoft promising us, aside from ports of PS2 titles and "a next-generation cutting edge high definition bla bla bla marketing bla vapor bla bla resistance futile bla bla" with no specifics?
i had exactly the same experience, and nothing fried. i've found that i can get mine down to about 46oC with about 6 case fans, and i figure i'll save on heating this winter.
i think that you're missing the point, which is that it's possible, but that it's very difficult -- go ask my mom or your aunt or someone if they know how to get there, and my bet is that they don't.
add to this the fact that changing associations *used* to be in filemanager right under file..., and it's clear that MS has removed functionality, and it's not too difficult to see why they might interested in doing so, given that the functionality's main, um, functionality is to allow the use of alternatives to their own products.
true, but the article only asserts that MS has gone out of its way to make things more difficult, which they clearly have. it was a simple task, clearly available in winfile in win 3.1, and now it's hidden -- shift right click, try telling my mom to remember that one -- and that's either because MS wanted it that way, or because people wanted the task to be harder. since the 2d seems unlikely, i think we can chalk it up to the first.
don't underestimate the effect of simple adjustments in usability -- it's sort of the heart of the accusations of bundling -- sure, you can use netscape, or aol, but the icon for msn is right there on the desktop. these things have a subtle effect, and besides, how many oem installations of windows even come with the documentation you reference?
i like to pay the people who make content for their services. but a problem that i have is that there are so many filters between me and the creator, so many people getting a cut (some of them justifiably, for hosting, say) that i get suspicious.
while the issues are somewhat different, i believe that the reticence to pay for content online has a lot in common with people's willingness to illegally download music. i do it, too, and while i'd like the artist to get paid, i simply don't see a very meaningful relationship between my clicking a button to pay someone for something, and the talent getting paid. in addition, all content has the same try-before-you-buy issue, which i'm constantly using to soothe my conscience -- after all, how can i say what content is worth to me unless i've actually consumed it already? it's like those goat-head baby booths at coney island. you're afraid to go in, cause what if it sucks? you feel like an idiot, and besides, i've paid enough to see goat-headed babies in the past that i should get something for free, non? and again, how much of my $2 does little Goaty get, anyway?
so for me, it's a combo of payback, suspicion of corporations, and my love of freaks.
nah, i definitely agree -- it's good for some things, not for others --
as far as wrists, i remember the glove thing -- there's a usability testing anecdote, for you. who would have predicted that that many kids would all react the same way to gameplay mechanics? but whatever problems the gba has, they're not particular to the gba -- and in fact i trust nintendo's control design team to do right by me more than i trust sony's or ms's.
as far as eyes go, you're right -- are moms today telling their kids not to play kirby in the dark, like my mom did with reading? they should...
unplayable? not able to be played? while i, too, am sometimes dissatisfied by the screen, un-playable is demonstrably inaccurate. i play it, often. so that's false.
where do you people live, caves? in THE WORLD, we have LIGHTING, both via filament and the excitation of certain noble gases. and then, oh, wait, i almost forgot THE SUN. perhaps, on the side of the box, nintendo should have pointed out places where you can GET LIGHT.
it's hard to see in certain places, but it's fine on the bus, the subway, in the office, in the park -- the only place where i don't get enough light is in my den, WHICH IS WHY I KEEP MY PS2 THERE. it's a great product -- in fact, the only decent product, in many circumstances -- hardly the same as unusable. you pay $100, and you feel inclined to complain because you don't get an organic display, infinite battery, 10/100 port, bump mapping on the chip, and a built-in taser?
re: not laziness and stupidity, you're right, my post was a bit hyperbolic, i guess. while i do think that there's some laziness, and stupidity, and selfishness, you're right to assert that at least some of the reluctance is well-founded. as you mention, the revenue model is unproven, and a little tough to get your head around, esp. if you're used to dealing with the current model.
2 pieces -- first, do get one. The screen brightness sucks, but yesterday i was playing tony hawk two in prospect park, and if all goes according to my (made up, praying-type) plan, soon square will release all of the snes rpgs for the gba. really, really a great piece of hardware.
second piece of advice: there's no regional lock-out on the gba. and with the impending us launch, the bottom has dropped out of the import market. so, at many stores that carry imports, you can actually get a gba for *less* than the retail price of a us version -- and there's *no* difference, take it from me.
go buy. it's a nice, warm, fuzzy thing -- you grab it, you play it, and you remember why nintendo is allowed to act so strangely as a company -- they're really that good at producing well-designed, durable, friendly products and franchises. werd.
Slashdot Mirror
How soon before Nintendo, who just dropped the gba price to $80, starts marketing a new model, with a light like this one, to re-sell to everyone who purchased one of the current crap-screen models, simultaneously revealing their plan to screw us, and rendering this great work a nice experiment but nothing more?
speaking of booksellers, what we need is a semi-legal petition-esque commitment to privacy from booksellers, some kind of form or list or something. you sign it, the HNice Booksellers for the First Amendment Society certifies you, you get to put a little gomezy icon on your site or door. This way, there would be a quick and easy (although maybe non-binding) way to distinguish between the booksellers that we should be using, and those who would turn over their purchase histories without a fight.
Yeah, this sounds like basically the setup the last time that i checked, too -- which, admittedly, was about a year ago.
Your point about the licensing fees is well-taken, and of course there's all the service agreements, too.
I guess that I'm not having trouble believing that their data takes a huge setup and support, i'm having trouble believing that it's not worth it to a lot of people -- the value of this data is proportional to its evil, which was great indeed. for all the 'unique profile' laughter, when this worked, it was a data-collection technique with no competition, simply for its ubiquity of collection points.
this is only true if you limit your consideration of technologies to consideration of firearms and boats. your statement concerning the difference in intelligence clearly illustrates the power that superios IT -- whether it was roads, horses, or passenger pigeons -- had, even then.
You're right, of course -- and given that this is the case, doesn't this seem like a strange move, to get completely out of tracking? Their dart tags had termendous potential for tracking people, given the ubiquity of DC-served ads. What does it really cost them to keep tracking this stuff, besides a few more boxes in back -- which they already own, btw?
Sure, there are other overhead issues here when it comes to analysis or putting a front-end on the collected data, but the one and only time i used dc data in my modeling, i made them give it to me raw, which they did with a little arm-twisting.
Just seems a little baby-bathwateresque, with the hardware and the software already in place to chuck the whole thing. Are they really doing this? And does anyone know why?
PS -- i know they're evil. that makes this seem *more* strange, not less.
ah!!! see, now that's what i'm talking about -- is it our fault that these jokes are going over the moderator's heads?
man, i got slammed -- i made a similar joke above, and signed it feanor, but no one got it, and it got modded down as flamebait. sigh. i guess that's all we can expect from the moderators today.
actually, though, galadrial gives frodo a phial full of light. the more apt comparison is to the silmarils themselves, gems which feanor created containing the light of the two trees of valionr, and which morgoth stole. ah, morgoth. there's a bad guy for you.
who the hell keeps rating this down? it was a joke about the silmarils, you philistines! or are you all only capable of fathoming books that have been made into movies?
oh, gee, crystals filled with light, neat-o. let me know when you actually get your hands on some news.
feanor@mandos.org
this is a good point -- although the fact that sega failed so miserably does make me wonder if it will work. the numbers just weren't there, in terms of people signing up.
yeah, it's just that most people didn't need me to point out that i meant 'non-necessary peripheral'. the mem card wasn't a peripheral, it was a part of the console that sony knew they could charge extra for. same for 2d controller.
let's not get involved in 'ff is stale' or 'your console suX0rs' discussions. the issue here, as much as i love square, is the hardware.
;)
7 syllables to remember for the console industry, and if you don't believe me, ask sega's hardware division: no one buys peripherals.
they'll buy an extra controller. they'll buy a hundred games. they'll pay an isp. but no one drops $100 on anything, once they've spent $300 on a console that plays mgs2, ffx, gta3, gran turismo, and ico just fine already. it's been tried, dozens of times, and it doesn't just fail, it puts companies out of business.
now, sony's not going out of business on its hard drive/ethernet combo. i'm going to buy one. but i'm giant sucker with lots of disposable income who must play ff. but (slashdot aside) there aren't that many like me -- not enough to make this work. there were only 300k phantasy star online players, and that didn't even require hardware. sony will be lucky to get 250k people to buy their $100 hardware, and square may get half of those to PlayOnline. compare that to the millions of units of, say, ffix they've sold.
i know, i know, a usb ethernet adapter -- you can also make your linux machine into a gateway for halo, but how many people are doing *that*? again, not counting me
i want square to do well here. and maybe other consoles will help, although last i read, they're thinking about nintendo and not ms, and the cube also has no connection. but the hardware is the issue here, and for all ff's sweet, chocolatey goodness, it's not going to sell much hardware.
First, and I'm a fairly rabid Sega fan, "the most sucessful Christmas Dreamcast ever had" is true, but it hurts. You're right, of course -- it's just that at the end of the day this rings hollow given the hindsight that we've got.
Second, exactly. The only distinction that I would make is that the PS2's 2d Christmas is turning out to be just vast -- the software sales, which is, of course, where the loot is, are about 5:1 compared to console sales right now. That's HUGE.
Third, I'll tell you this -- XBox sales were off last week something like 85 % from their first week numbers. *That* is a powerful figure -- satiate the fanboys, give the rest of us enough time to lust after halo but realize that there's not much else, and what have you got? An installed base of a million, compared to ps2's 9 million -- and ps1's 45 million domestically?
I'm not a sony fan, or hater. But they own the console space. And as you point out, the big N doesn't care either way, becase of Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pokemon.
I do wish i could play some halo, tho....
Hey, also, if you want an indication of how things are going, go check ebay -- it's very interesting. xbox's are going for anywhere from $260 - $320. that's less than retail in many cases. uh oh! for comparison, and i haven't done any rigorous analysis, cubes seem to be going for retail + 0 to 20 %.
On this topic, and now i'm wandering, is anyone doing statistical analysis with regards to modeling ebay bidding over time? I'm thinking about it a lot lately.
Not to trump this with outside info -- you're right about the differing periods -- but sales of XBox, at least, have fallen off precipitously since week 1. Not sure of %, but I'm sure we could hunt this down. Conversely, PS2 sales are up over the same period. So if we were to extrapolate on this basis, and not merely apply a multiplier of 5/4 or whatever, the discrepancy in ps2's favor is actually greater than there #s show.
To say "it's been out longer" as though that's not a good reason to buy a console misses the point. It would be more meaningful to say, "it's been sucessful after a year and change". At this time last year, dreamcast had been out longer than PS2, by about the same amount, but had few big games on the horizon, and had been losing 3d parties left and right. And you can talk about the reasons for this, but the fact is that, not only has sony got a lead, they've made good given that lead -- just as the new systems hit the market, you get GTA3, FFX, MGS2, and all sorts of other games that may or may not be associated with acronyms.
What i think it *is* fair to say is that the fact that PS2 is outselling either of the 2 new systems isn't symptomatic of the futures of either of those systems. Nintendo always has a slow start, but they're in it for the long haul, and they've shown a consistent ability to milk their franchises. And Microsoft, well, whatever, they'll probably just release the next version of office only for xbox so all their corporate customers have to buy them, so they're ensured of success.
This is so not the point -- the two consoles are going head up NOW, not a year from now when the XBox might actually have more then ten games.
But to your point, MS's lineup for *next* year sucks. This time last year, Sony had a shitty lineup, but they had a lot in the works. Where's the MGS2? Where's the Tony Hawk 3? Where's the GTA? Where's the Final Fantasy? The Devil May Cry? The list of games being hyped then was really, really long -- what's Microsoft promising us, aside from ports of PS2 titles and "a next-generation cutting edge high definition bla bla bla marketing bla vapor bla bla resistance futile bla bla" with no specifics?
i had exactly the same experience, and nothing fried. i've found that i can get mine down to about 46oC with about 6 case fans, and i figure i'll save on heating this winter.
i think that you're missing the point, which is that it's possible, but that it's very difficult -- go ask my mom or your aunt or someone if they know how to get there, and my bet is that they don't.
add to this the fact that changing associations *used* to be in filemanager right under file..., and it's clear that MS has removed functionality, and it's not too difficult to see why they might interested in doing so, given that the functionality's main, um, functionality is to allow the use of alternatives to their own products.
true, but the article only asserts that MS has gone out of its way to make things more difficult, which they clearly have. it was a simple task, clearly available in winfile in win 3.1, and now it's hidden -- shift right click, try telling my mom to remember that one -- and that's either because MS wanted it that way, or because people wanted the task to be harder. since the 2d seems unlikely, i think we can chalk it up to the first.
don't underestimate the effect of simple adjustments in usability -- it's sort of the heart of the accusations of bundling -- sure, you can use netscape, or aol, but the icon for msn is right there on the desktop. these things have a subtle effect, and besides, how many oem installations of windows even come with the documentation you reference?
i like to pay the people who make content for their services. but a problem that i have is that there are so many filters between me and the creator, so many people getting a cut (some of them justifiably, for hosting, say) that i get suspicious.
while the issues are somewhat different, i believe that the reticence to pay for content online has a lot in common with people's willingness to illegally download music. i do it, too, and while i'd like the artist to get paid, i simply don't see a very meaningful relationship between my clicking a button to pay someone for something, and the talent getting paid. in addition, all content has the same try-before-you-buy issue, which i'm constantly using to soothe my conscience -- after all, how can i say what content is worth to me unless i've actually consumed it already? it's like those goat-head baby booths at coney island. you're afraid to go in, cause what if it sucks? you feel like an idiot, and besides, i've paid enough to see goat-headed babies in the past that i should get something for free, non? and again, how much of my $2 does little Goaty get, anyway?
so for me, it's a combo of payback, suspicion of corporations, and my love of freaks.
nah, i definitely agree -- it's good for some things, not for others --
as far as wrists, i remember the glove thing -- there's a usability testing anecdote, for you. who would have predicted that that many kids would all react the same way to gameplay mechanics? but whatever problems the gba has, they're not particular to the gba -- and in fact i trust nintendo's control design team to do right by me more than i trust sony's or ms's.
as far as eyes go, you're right -- are moms today telling their kids not to play kirby in the dark, like my mom did with reading? they should...
unplayable? not able to be played? while i, too, am sometimes dissatisfied by the screen, un-playable is demonstrably inaccurate. i play it, often. so that's false.
where do you people live, caves? in THE WORLD, we have LIGHTING, both via filament and the excitation of certain noble gases. and then, oh, wait, i almost forgot THE SUN. perhaps, on the side of the box, nintendo should have pointed out places where you can GET LIGHT.
it's hard to see in certain places, but it's fine on the bus, the subway, in the office, in the park -- the only place where i don't get enough light is in my den, WHICH IS WHY I KEEP MY PS2 THERE. it's a great product -- in fact, the only decent product, in many circumstances -- hardly the same as unusable. you pay $100, and you feel inclined to complain because you don't get an organic display, infinite battery, 10/100 port, bump mapping on the chip, and a built-in taser?
three words: wah, wah, wah.
re: not laziness and stupidity, you're right, my post was a bit hyperbolic, i guess. while i do think that there's some laziness, and stupidity, and selfishness, you're right to assert that at least some of the reluctance is well-founded. as you mention, the revenue model is unproven, and a little tough to get your head around, esp. if you're used to dealing with the current model.
yeah, i'm sure it's less in reality -- i just wanted to pick a 'conservative' (yet pathetic) %.
2 pieces -- first, do get one. The screen brightness sucks, but yesterday i was playing tony hawk two in prospect park, and if all goes according to my (made up, praying-type) plan, soon square will release all of the snes rpgs for the gba. really, really a great piece of hardware.
second piece of advice: there's no regional lock-out on the gba. and with the impending us launch, the bottom has dropped out of the import market. so, at many stores that carry imports, you can actually get a gba for *less* than the retail price of a us version -- and there's *no* difference, take it from me.
go buy. it's a nice, warm, fuzzy thing -- you grab it, you play it, and you remember why nintendo is allowed to act so strangely as a company -- they're really that good at producing well-designed, durable, friendly products and franchises. werd.