Slashdot Mirror
Homebrew Gameboy Advance Lighting Project
palo0019 writes: "I'm sure Slashdotters who picked up Nintendo's new portable have found its screen to leave a little to be desired (Penny Arcade illustrates the point well). Adam Curtis has created a grassroots lighting project called PortableMonopoly.com. I know I would help out if I had any knowledge in the area, I'm tired of playing Castlevania in my bathroom." There's some interesting information about portable video display systems in there as well -- those game designers have some pretty tough compromises to make.
I just picked up one of those worm lights. It's nice cause it has a pass-thru to plug more things in, but the screen's reflectivity is a big issue, as it illuminates the screen, but puts this big with reflection right in the middle. I'd recommend the worm light though, because you can play it as such an angle where the glare isn't an issue and it was only like $10.
Um, you DO know that Nintendo released a Gameboy light handheld in Japan, right? That unit had comparable battery consumption to a plain gameboy, but had a cool indiglo-like backlit screen that you could turn on (night/poor light) or off (daytime/good light) as conditions demanded. The only reason I can think of that it wasn't released here is that it would have pulled the rug from under the Gameboy Color, which came out soon after in the US. We preferred playing the GB Light to the GB color in my house simply because it could be played EVERYWHERE.
Not having a backlight on the GBA is a cop-out, plain and simple. If they did it in Japan for the regular Gameboy (though they didn't release it in the US), they could have for the GBA.
June 18, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis
On an interesting side note, it appears the site has caught the attention of none other than the big 'N'. I'm not surprised, but I thought I would roll out the giant welcome mat for them.
They are visiting often enough that I probably won't even need to ever send them the petition at all.
Seriously, Nintendo - since you are watching the site, I want to say three things (I only post this because so many people wonder about my motivation in this project):
First of all, I want to apologize for the statement I made about the system being "engineered by monkeys". In fact the only problem I have with the system is the fact that you chose a HR-TFT for long battery life as opposed to what I would have considered a more comprehensive visual setup. Though I share this opinion with many, many others - I can respect the decision your engineers/marketing department made.
Secondly, if you get anything from our petition, please recognize that there is a substantial percentage of us that would rather have a internally lit system- even at the expense of battery life. I am sure you already know this. If you are willing, please send me an email describing exactly why you chose not to offer two different systems or whether or not there are plans for an internally lit system in the future.
Finally, the real reason I believe you pissed off so many people (including me) with the GBA is your dubious advertisement of the system, 100% of which includes vibrant, bright, gameplay from any angle and with any light - nothing even close to reality. Your TV advertisements and promotional screenshots are gross misrepresentations of the actual system, even at its best. I understand that it would be difficult to sell if you showed the ACTUAL PRODUCT being used, but shouldn't that tell you that something is wrong? Go ahead and throw in a response to this one as well.
June 18, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis Wow, what a roller coaster ride this project has been the last few days.. I have gone back and forth from thinking this project is impossible to simple about 5 times already. This is, however, to be expected considering my previously limited knowledge regarding LCD technology. I am, with your help and a TON of research, learning quickly - so keep your fingers crossed for me. Here's a rundown of today's results: I talked with a Sharp employee (since I can't use his name, let's call him "Wild Honey " to spice up such a drab write up) extensively about the project and got some valuable feedback. According to him, the "Optical Guide" in the diagram below has not been fully developed yet and a simple plane of translucent material is not sufficient. Rather, the device must be intricately carved with tiny prisms constructed to very high precision - we're talking microns. Wild Honey mentioned that some Japanese companies are working on the device but that none are commercially available yet. I then asked him about another technology we have been considering for this project - something called Monoreflective diode fabrics. Credit for the discovery of this technology goes to Cabanaguy from IGN's forums (if I knew his name I'd mention it). MRD's are very thin, flat, optically clear sheets that have the miraculous capability of emitting light in one direction and allowing light to pass back through in the other. These devices are used in film applications, and would theoretically work quite well for the GBA front light. As you can imagine, the MRD would be placed light-emitting face down. Anyway, Wild Honey said that he had never heard of the technology and said that if it worked as advertised it might be a good solution. According to "Cabanaguy", the material is used at his place of work so he has been able to verify its existence. He is currently finding out who his company's MRD supplier is. As an interesting note, a 10" by 10" sheet of the material costs above $300. Since the GBA lcd is 1 10/16" by 2 6/16", that sheet could be cut to cover 24 LCD's (6 rows by 4 columns). Hence each cut would be $12.50 - a very modest price indeed. Still, the technology has to be considered vaporware until "Cabanaguy" can get us more information on the technology/supplier and do some tests with it. I thanked Wild Honey for his time and hung up the phone, justifiably disappointed with what I had just heard. Nonetheless, determined to the brink of insanity, I plunged forward with further research. Low and behold, I just happened to come across an Asian company that sells not just the "Optical guide" we need, but a complete assembly featuring a thin fluorescent lamp and the guide in one piece! It remains to be seen how much this will cost, but it's yet another very important step in the evolution of this project. Taken from the site: This picture is hard to make out, but this is the wedged polymer plastic "optical guide"from the diagram below combined with a CCFT mini-lamp, all in one piece. I believe the on
the right is the same assembly with three LEDs instead of a CCFT (Thanks CJ Saretto)
This is a real life representation of the diagram posted yesterday. I would post the URL from which this image came, but I would rather not subject the company that created this device to millions of emails subjected :"Frontlight my system please please PLEASE!!!!". Judging from some of the juvenile posts I've had to delete from the message board over and over again, that wouldn't be the worst of it.
After I verify that the unit will work I will let everyone know where it can be purchased. It is very well possible that we might have to set up some sort of group purchase if they only sell in large quantities. Some have suggested that I offer a complete modification kit - if this works out as planned, I might very well do that. Anyone have $100,000 to loan me? ;)
Thanks again for all of the great emails I have received from you, sorry for the delay in replying - I am going to respond to all of them right now. I am very happy with the results this site has been producing, 350+ petition signatures and a thriving forum are a nice surprise. Thanks so much to those who have been getting the word out about portablemonopoly.com and the sites posting our news.
Of course if anything happens you will all be the first to know right here.
June 18, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis
There are a few miscellaneous questions I have been receiving a lot that need to be answered:
"Why are you backlighting the device? Game Gear tried that and it sucked down battery life. duh!"
The Game Gear was released more than 10 years ago and employs a highly inefficient halogen bulb backlighting system. duh!
"I want to backlight my device, I took my GBA apart and did this.. how do I..."
Backlighting the GBA will not work. Because the Sharp LCD is employs is reflective only, any light that passes through the LCD will not illuminate any pixels but simply wash them out. It is unfortunately as simple as that. A transmissive or transflective LCD will facilitate backlighting.
Now you know why we are attempting a front lighting solution in this project.
If you wanted to try and replace the LCD in the unit with a transflective or transmissive screen, you might have a chance. But I have as of yet been unable to find a replacement of equal size and resolution, and personally have no idea how to modify the GBA's LCD data ribbon to work for a different LCD.
"What about EL (electroluminescence)?"
Again, since the LCD is non-transmissive, an EL layer behind the screen will not work.
"How much battery life will your final system have?"
I am estimating 3-4 hours of battery life, but that remains to be seen depending on the light source we use. If a cold cathode fluorescent tube is used, we are looking at less battery life but a more vibrant display. LED's would have an opposite effect and would probably result in at least 8 hours of battery life. I would personally be more than satisfied with any battery life > 2 hours - especially since we will have a on/off on the switch to only use the light when needed. 2-4 hours of battery life might be a problem with any game that doesn't have battery backup to allow for the replacement of batteries or a rechargeable unit, but for those games the light can simply be turned off.
Note that these numbers are straight out of my (@#$) and could end up being lower or higher. I am optimistic that battery life will be salvaged to a very acceptable degree.
"Why does your forum block profanity?"
I originally didn't intend to implement something that lame but there were so many idiotic posts it was a necessary evil. Sorry!
"This is the most retarded site I have ever seen... I don't want to sign the petition, here's why... You guys are wasting your time.. blah blah blah"
Enough already! I don't care whether or not you think what I am going is a waste of time. If you think this site is pointless or retarded, dear God save me the bandwidth and take your ass elsewhere.
June 18, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis
Site.. can't.. take much more. I should have known better than to try to host this site off of the DSL lineJune 17, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis I have discovered a very uplifting diagram from a presentation made by a Sharp employee. It represents exactly what we need to do with the prototype to effectively light the screen. I have the name of the creator of this presentation and I will be in contact with him on Monday.
June 17, 2001 - posted by Adam Curtis Our project has just hit a major snag - one that is probably going to be the most difficult aspect of our work. It appears that lighting the Sharp LCD in the GBA directly from the side will not work on its own - light is not effectively reflected off of that screen until your light source is reflected about 20 degrees above the horizontal. This obviously would not be feasible because we would have to have the light sticking out from the screen about 2 inches at least - defeating the purpose of internal lighting. The technology exists to solve this problem, however, and it is just a matter of finding it. In the Compaq I-paq, there is a thin, plastic, refractive layer of some sort that refracts light from the side-lights downward into the LCD at a 90 degree angle. We need to find out what this is. And so a cry for help comes out from me to all of you - if we can find out where to get such a layer, the project will have overcome its greatest hindrance. Anyone who finds out what this is gets their name in 20 point times at the top of this page.. Click here for older informationThe diagram of how the GBA could theoretically be lit from the side by a CCFT
(which is used in the IPaq I believe) or an LED. No mirror would be needed in
this schematic due to the way the optical guide is positioned.
This image shows the difference in power consumption between classic Transmissive LCD's
(Game Gear, Nomad, Turbo Express) and this design using a single CCFT or one or two LEDs.
Instead of hacking the GBA, a better alternative might be to play ROM images on an iPaq, Yopy, or similar machine. Is there an emulator that will work on those systems? Presumbly GnuBoy could be ported to any Linux handheld. Cost is significantly higher, obviously, but you get a more generally useful system in the process. (Although getting it to play Kirby's Tilt and Tumble might be a real challenge.)
Rather than worry about battery usage, I'd rather just spring for a rechargable (or two) anyway.
Wormlights don't work very well. Perhaps there's a transparent coating available that diffuses reflections, as is available for eyeglasses.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
The reason that nintendo stuck with the "crap green screen" so long is that they had 90% of the portable gaming market. What would be the point of spending the millions necessary to create a new gaming device when you already control almost the entire market? What would it get them? Nothing! They actually started such a project several times, tossing it each time (until the GBA, which was propelled forward by its interconnectivity to the NGC).
What's beyond me is why they started making GameBoy Colors.
Hrmm...how long would an led (small enough to fit, but large enough to illuminate the screen well) powered off a standard (small) watch battery last before needing a new battery?
Is there enough space below the screen to add one without too much trouble?
(I don't yet have a GBA, so I don't have anything to reference to see if something like this is feasible...it *looks* like there might be though...and if it's not that tough to disassemble/reassemble...)
I HIGHLY recommend pair.com's hosting.
I don't work for them for benefit in any way from you using them, but they are the *best* web host..
Service simply can't be touched, full open source love available.
I've found it's not as simple as that..
You're paying for service as well as straight setup time.. You can beat Pair on price, but you can't beat them on service..
I'll admit, they may not be ideal for porn hosting.. They rock the party for my needs..
Erm, I can understand surfing pr0n in the bathroom, but playing Castlevania? You need to get out more often....
Of course their site is slashdotted, so I'm going to go ahead and post here. Feel free to share these ideas (at least give me credit though hehe).
The Nyko wormlight does work on the GBA but produces rather unsightly glare. A glare screen (like on monitors or the film on glasses lenses) could help for that.
3M has many many different films that do nearly what you are proposing for the LED side-lighting system. I believe solutions can be manufactured to the specific angles needed as well. (A related technology is used in holography, and on those traffic signals you can only see from one lane). Their site is a bit hard to get around so I recommend contacting a rep.
--onyx--
Anyone try putting a write right (screen protector for Visor/Palm...) on the screen of the GBA and then using the wormlight? That might eliminate some of the glare... Just a thought, I don't have a GBA (yet) and I was just tossing some ideas around...
The Gameboy colour came out pretty much as a direct response to Pokémon becoming ultra popular. Pokémon was designed for people to play and trade with one another likening to the appeal of Tetris when the GB first came out. What better way for Nintendo to capitalize on Pokémon's popularity than to come out with a new system which costs less to produce than even the GB Pocket (meaning no profit loss on GBC sales). Both the Pocket and Colour integrate all of the GB's components onto a single chip which makes them light and really easy to produce. Oh yeah, and the fact that with the GBC out they could sell DX versions of their old games. Few things are quite as satisfying as when someone buys two or more copies of your product.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Well since I'm not officially poor I won't be buying a GBA anytime soon and will stick to kinking my body into strange contorted shapes to play my GBC. From what I've seen now the GBA seems to have gotten their reflective backing from the same GBC fab because the LCD in my GBC sucks ass. It's not so bad if I'm somewhere with a single source or light (or very diffuse light) but never try playing it in an airport or the light with alot of bright lights. I can see Nintendo's reason for nixing a backlight on the GBA (and Colour) though. I used to have a Gamegear waaaay back when and that thing chewed through batteries like mad. My GB could handle plenty of playing without a hitch while the Gamegear would cop out pretty quickly, it lasted long enough to beat Sonic but that was about it.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Ha, I got a GB classic when it first came out in 89 but it sort of died over the years and I didn't want one until I became addicted to Pokémon about a year ago and bought a GBC at Costco. I think the GBC screen is pretty damn clear in good lighting, I don't recall ever having trouble with it. I've never used a GB pocket before though.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
My spiffy new Sony CLIÉ has the same style display. Their solution is a front-light that shines up from underneath the graffiti area. Looks great in all lighting conditions. (Though I admit that I never turn the light off unless I'm in bright sunlight.)
If battery life is a concern, you really should be using rechargables. Or, like I did with my son's GameBoy Pocket, velcro a couple of D-cells to the back of the thing. That sucker lasts for months now!
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
News release on pocket.ign.com...
Nintendo says, "Don't touch it!"
Jethro
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
"target=new"??
Look, jerk, if I wanted a new browser window, I'd make one myself.
Stop trying to be clever and just post the link normally, like so.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Or free: www.squid-cache.org .. i've set it up in front of publicfile & apache using publicfile for static content and apache for dynamic content, works wonderfully.
--Sean
You forgot Ultima IX, also a b0rked product from EA.
Lowmag.net
Doesn't the Ipaq have a reflective screen also? How do they light that?
:)
If someone wants to remove the lighting device from their Ipaq, I'll take the useless hardware.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
I bought a worm light with my GBA. I cannot position the light without getting serious glare. It lights up the top half of the screen, leaves the bottom dark and glares off the point the light is shining at.
Talk about your impressive hardware hacks. First the TiVo digital output hack and now this. Amazing!
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Rare Window - free your photos
Caching reverse proxies people . . . when we learn that you may survive a slashdotting with caching reverse proxies. Not to0 expensive either. shameless plug: purchase at volera
this sig is deprecated
Granted, that part of PA is no longer there, since he updates that every two days and deletes the old stuff... but still.
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Caimlas
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Can be found here. Hot Soup got it funnier than PA did, I think....
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Brazil has decided you're cute.
I *knew* there was a reason PA was loading slow as mole asses today!
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Linking to a two year old story? Looks like it never went anywhere. There's *one* press release from this year:
a ses/pr20010516-01.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/pressRele
Does this mean they're unloading it? Is OLED just Not Going To Work Out?
Stay tuned! Same OLED-time, same OLED-station!
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Boy, did I ever speak too soon. Egg on me.
c ts/specialProducts/OEL/whatsNew.jhtml
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/produ
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
And they're already available, too!
c ts/specialProducts/OEL/applications.jhtml
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/produ
Okay, I think that's all.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
And they don't suggest you play around with it.
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=6974116&re plies=12
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
And if thats not enough;
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/50/19891.h
Specificly;
"The 'contrast control' that you are referring to is actually a flicker control. "
This is a quote from Nintendo.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
So if you played on the GBA for 2 hours a day on average, then the device would last 3 years, however I imagine that the blue deteriorates over time, it doesn't just stop working at 2000 hours, so the half life of a GBA would be 1.5 years in this case.
When 240x160 OLED displays cost $5 and can be slot-in replaced, then the screen is a non-issue in my opinion, and OLED should be used. Until that time, use a technology that is proven to work.
unplayable? not able to be played? while i, too, am sometimes dissatisfied by the screen, un-playable is demonstrably inaccurate. i play it, often. so that's false.
where do you people live, caves? in THE WORLD, we have LIGHTING, both via filament and the excitation of certain noble gases. and then, oh, wait, i almost forgot THE SUN. perhaps, on the side of the box, nintendo should have pointed out places where you can GET LIGHT.
it's hard to see in certain places, but it's fine on the bus, the subway, in the office, in the park -- the only place where i don't get enough light is in my den, WHICH IS WHY I KEEP MY PS2 THERE. it's a great product -- in fact, the only decent product, in many circumstances -- hardly the same as unusable. you pay $100, and you feel inclined to complain because you don't get an organic display, infinite battery, 10/100 port, bump mapping on the chip, and a built-in taser?
three words: wah, wah, wah.
god is just pretend.
beat me to it :P
There's a development and backup kit that you can buy at http://www.lik-sang.com called the Flash Linker Advance. There's also a GBA development site at http://www.gbadev.org that has some great info.
-motardo
There are two major problems to overcome when trying to light the GBA screen:
1) The plastic film over the screen is highly reflective, causing lots of glare.
2) The light source must be placed within a certain range of angles in front of the screen to achieve a reasonable level of reflection off the screen itself.
External lights (such as the Nyko WormLight) solve the second problem nicely, but they only amplify the first problem.
I'm thinking of trying various anti-glare filters (like the ones sold for computer monitors, or other simple polarized filters) over the GBA's screen in combination with a home-built external light (one that uses multiple white LEDs behind a translucent plastic film to help diffuse the light to lower the bright glare spot). I believe this will be the best solution.
Any attempts to light the GBA from inside the unit (with LEDs mounted inside the unit to the side of the screen, etc) will fail because they won't achieve the necessary angle for adequte reflection, and because there simply isn't enough room inside the unit to add lighting around the perimeter of the screen.
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
The light reflected from an LCD screen (including the GBA's) comes back to you as linearly polarized light. Thus, if you have a linear polarized filter over an LCD screen, and you rotate the filter, you can either achieve total opacity or total transmission depending upon the angle.
You can test this out yourself using a pair of polarized sunglasses and the GameBoy screen--if you rotate the lens over the screen you can watch it become opaque at a certain angle.
Using a polarized filter won't be a problem for two reasons: (1) I plan on using a circular polarized filter, which doesn't suffer from this problem; and (2) if you were to use a linear polarized filter, all you would have to do is mount it at the right angle of rotation in relation to the screen.
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
I'm tired of playing Castlevania in my bathroom.
Isn't that part of the point of a GBA?
:)
--Ty
I am sure if you were flexible enough you could find some way of sitting comfortably and still getting your light source properly located.
-- Any comments seen here are not mine, but a mixture of alchohol and lack of sleep.
I thought it was some clever word-play on Homeboy/Gameboy.
I think I'm giving Slashdot editors too much credit, though.
BOOYA! Site down. Funny message on there though. Pasted below so you guys don't slashdot him a SECOND time
Sorry!
You and all your friends wanted to see this site -- All your friends got here first.
-Todd Klindt, MCSE (Minesweeper champion, solitare expert)
Needless to say, the server is smoking. The site should be up again shortly. If you would like to mirror the site, please email adam@portablemonopoly.com. Thanks!
--The Management
Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
For the hardware hackers out there, IGN has an article how to adjust the contrast on your GBA (and Neo Geo Pocket. w00t): Game Boy Advance Too Dark?
Sorry if this is all redundant, portablemonopoly is /.'ed and I can't get to it
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Ah, but would you want your display wearing out after about half of your gba's lifetime? OLED pigments (red ones I think) currently have a half-life of about 1000 hours. OLED is a technology that's not ready for prime time; those really nice displays that they show not only cost thousands of dollars but wear out in a few weeks. Maybe for Game Boy 64 the technology will be ready...
See, two polarising filters that are aligned at 90 degrees to each other prevent any light getting through. LCD pixels "twist" the polarisation of light thru 90 degrees, so when mounted between two filters they can be flipped between blocking and passing light (try rotating one of the filters in an old digital watch and watch the display change between black on white to white on black).
Anyway, my point is; I know the filter would completely block the screen one way round, but would it work the other way round? I guess it depends on how they've set it up. Anyone know any more about this? Apologies for my poor recollection of my Physics A-Level.
So far, I've found that the only way to play the GBA that isn't in the sunlight, or that force me to become a contortionist is under multiple light sources. Like the chandelier in my dining room works great.
Here's what will happen if you try and use it with a Worm Light.
And here are my impressions of the system in general.
If they were just going to make it so you couldn't see...they should let you hook it to a TV or something.
Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
It may be in Nintendo's best interest to offer these devices with such bad lighting. I happen to work at a very large toy retailer (I won't mention the name, but it has a backwards consonant in the name and has a giraffe of questionable sexual orientation for a mascot), and it is a well known fact (around there anyway) that we make almost nothing on the systems themselves: usually only enough to cover shipping and storage. The reason: video game companies generally sell their systems at a loss in profit, and make it up in royalties on games and accessories. With us it is no different. The only reason we carry video game systems at all is so we can sell games and accessories.
This is such a huge point that everyone who works at our location has had to watch a 10 minute training video all about how to sell accessories and games with the system, especially to people who, well, have no intention of doing so.
So it comes as no surprise to me that there is a "flaw" in the system which is most easily solved by (*gasp!*) buying an accessory. An accessory which, I might add, is not backwards compatible with the old game boy systems, so you have to buy a new one.
Hey Microsoft Coward: could v : expresses possibility.
Slashdot got it!
From site:" Sorry! You and all your friends wanted to see this site -- All your friends got here first. Needless to say, the server is smoking. The site should be up again shortly. --The Management"
You know you do to much SQL when you type "From" and then "site" and you automatically try to capitalize the from so it reads "FROM Site S" lol.. I typed that anyways
Jeremy
Isn't this the fault of game designers? We know that games such as Castlevania are very hard to see, whereas games such as Mario are not as bad.
Now, if I look at my GBA when it is completely off, the whole screen looks white and is quite viewable. So, colors are darkening the screen.
If game designers did more testing on the GBA screen (instead of on CRT monitors), they would adjust the colors in their games to be a little lighter, and thus let more light through.
So why isn't anyone blaming the game designers?? I am!!!
Is there something I'm missing or is the world just loosing their minds (more than usual)
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
And you call me crazy...
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Since the Gameboy Advance isn't released in the UK until Friday I've not used one yet. I've heard loads about how difficult it is to see the non-backlit screen, but I've not been able to find out how this compares to the old Gameboy Colo(u)r version, which I find is fine. So, is it much worse than the GBC, or is it just that people who hate it were hoping for something better?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
So presumbaly the worm light shines due to the power of love and so doesn't suck up any battery juice from the GBA then? :)
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
So anyways I read that alot of people say the GBA's screen is alot like the GBC's screen, and that the GBC's screen also sucks.
HUH?????????????????
Ok, question. Why didn't nintendo just make the GBA's screen the same as the GameBoy Color's screen? The GBC has NO problems with lighting as far as I can tell, I get perfect results in VERY low light conditions. Even under moderate flourecent lighting I do good, and I can even play it outside on overcast/cloudy days. If the GBA used the exact same screen technology as the GBC but with a slightly enlarged display, I would be able to get the same gazzilion hour battery life out of it, last time I checked it is well over 12hrs, likely closer to 16 (I've left it on overnight and still been able to play it for a few weeks without needing to change the batteries!) and the damn thing just ROCKS!
Why did Nintendo change the type of LCD screen they use?
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Aside from the explanation why backlighting won't help, you're missing the point-- the system is unplayable as sold.
Systems are being sold with less and less to reduce cost. No more bundled game; just one controller. But Nintendo seems to be taking a page from PC game manufacturers-- no usable product in the box (WW2Online and UO:Renaissance, for example, if you bought them the week of release).
I'm sure not including the screen itself would cut down on battery consumption, but they still included that. If they're not going to include an essential part of the system, they should say so, just like with batteries: "2 AA batteries required (not included), worm light required (not included)". Instead, both people I know who bought it got it home, said, "fuck! It's unplayable!", then went back to the store to discover the good wormlights were sold out. Go figure.
or does that guy in the cartoon have a beowulf cluster of lamps? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I can't wait to see his face after today...
--
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Has anybody heard of a flashable ROM cartridge being available for the Game Boy Advance yet? I have one for my original GB, and it is great. I can write my own ROM's and play them on the handheld. It remember I had to buy it from Japan, and it was expensive. Anyone else done this?
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
Exactly, they would ruin the graphics quality at the same price. I think Nintendo should offer, and probably will offer, a separate unit with backlight.. and maybe room for 2 more batteries. Look at there past record, whenever the GB sales drop, they come out with a new version.. Pocket, Light, etc....
Sorry, I meant to say a separate unit that is at a higher price.
I just linked to the first one I could find. They've been in displays (especially on stereos) for quite some time now. :)
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
It's not the dimness of the screen so much as the fact that even if you HAVE your own source of light, it's very difficult to use it. :p
That plastic guard will reflect most of it right back into your eyes in an oh-so-enjoyable glare.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
A backlight won't help in the GBA's case. The LCD screen has reflective faceting to improve the visual quality (not to be confused with the reflective plastic cover that actually makes frontlighting the unit unbearable due to glare).
Any light shone through the back will only succeed in "washing out" the colour due to the properties of the LCD. Personally I would have preferred an organic electroluminescent display (OLED) to this darkened LCD nightmare. OLEDs produce their own light and are more energy efficient than LCDs, let alone LCDs with backlighting.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
Well, I just made myself a Game boy advanced "visor" using duct tape and cardboard. It matches the color (kind of) of the game boy and it blocks any external light, so I get a better visual. Sure, it's ghetto, but it's free!
Also, Speaking about Penny-Arcade, which got me thinking about web comics, which reminded me of Diesel Sweeties, which provoked me visiting it, which caused me to discover this. It's Cowboy Neal if he were a pixely cartoon.
I went to the site yesterday, and they are working on a petition for nintendo to offer a backlit version. They didn't seem to have too much info, but there was a place to sign, and some discussion/gripe boards. The most interesting piece of news I saw when I was there was that some surfers from nintendo had been over to see the site, and they have taken notice. Over at www.gbacentral.net was that nintendo is said to have not been able to get the backlight working. They had one, but in testing it had a few problems. Either way, I agree that it is a good handheld, but they could have put in that little bit of extra effort...
Gah. A subject near and dear to my heart. I've heard good things about the Lightboy (which apparently you have to import.) I'm going to get one in a few days and I'll see what it's like then. Anyone know if this works well?
I bought an el cheapo Wormlight Plus, and it helps some, but the GBA experience still rather sucks with it, IMO. To get it where it actually looks good you do need a bright overhead light. It might as well require you to plug it into a wall. You can't really leave your Well-Lit Gaming Area(TM) with it anyway.
-- dR.fuZZo
While I must admit I wouldn't attempt to add the LED's in after the fact (because they'd have to be backlit, and well, if there is no existing backlight mechanism, it would be a pain to "squeeze" one in.)
This is just me talking from my limited experience tearing apart DSTN and TFT displays... Instead of the standard light source, I don't see why it would be difficult to chain 3-4 LED's across the screen plane.
Anyhow, LED lights? My very-bright CMG Infinity LED light has a 40-hour run time with one AA. I imagine 3 LED's running on a lower brightness setting with more AA's on the GBA would not be a heavy drain on the system...
The LED-based snake lights are great... Now... why in the world can a game manufacturer not use an LED-based backlighting solution for their displays? Poor backlighting is a direct cause of the manufacturers trying to save some juice -- fine -- use LED's...
Sigh. At least IBM got it right with its LED-based keyboard light for its laptops.
A friend of mine and I went to Best Buy to try these out when they had the demo models there. They looked very nice...the display was easy to see, the colors were clear and crisp, and the lack of a backlight hardly seemed to be a problem.
.sig)
My friend ended up picking one up right away when they came out, and we were both sorely disappointed...the display was as bad as the original gameboy color, and you literally had to hold it under a 100 watt lamp at an uncomfortable angle to be able to see clearly at all.
The solution seems obvious...everybody needs to purchase a warehouse-style halogen based industrial lighting system!
(I'm not cool enough to have a
I'm not cool enough to have a
These were also all 10 years old. Electronics have certainly matured.
I agree, the OLED display would have been the ultimate solution, but just as far as working with what they're working with, backlit displays would have been fine. And I meant backlit in so far as laptop screens and some handheld/palm screens are backlit-- in the quantities Nintendo is producing this thing, I can't imagine it'd add much to the overall price. (Not forgetting that Nintendo claims to have sold 500,000+ units in the US since launch, and more than that in Japan-- Europe gets their first shipments this week.)
About OLED though, I've been semi-following (read: just checking the main story and one or two comments) the stories on Slashdot about them, but can you (or anyone) give a quick rundown on the overall status of this technology for people just hearing about it? Is it in production, does it cost significantly more than current LCD technology, and are there any major manufacturers ramping up production?
For now, unless OLED will be in major supply in the next year, I think backlit LCD's are it (again, more like laptop or other handheld LCD panels, not reflective ala the GBA's current display). Thanks for the info on the issue of reflectivity though. =)
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
Well and more importantly, you don't even mention the fact that on the Gameboy Advance Nintendo EXPLICITLY added holes and hooks for attachments (presumeably lights, especially from their placement) to connect on to. I think there's two holes on the top of the system on either side of the game link port, and the case plastic case itself has other places for things to snap-on to (ridges and hard lines formed in the plastic).
In fact AFAIK this is how the import-only Lightboy Advance attaches to a GBA, by snapping onto and being secured to the GBA with the lil' holes Nintendo added to their design.
Definately not a monopoly IMHO.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
The problem with your statement is that there aren't any new games for it.
Try again.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
I don't mean to come off as an ass, but I'd rather (than your options) have Nintendo add a backlight to the GBA and then add an on/off slider to the system so you can turn it off to save battery life.
I'm not too sure how much such a setup would cost though, but if it'd only raise the retail price by $50, I think it's worth it. (Hell, if they only want to release a 'special edition' with this feature for $200 instead of $100, I'd bite.. backlit displays look SO much better.)
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
Or people can get to the meat of the story by just going to http://pocket.ign.com/news/35946.html, which has full details on where the control is and how to access it. I'd rather buy the special screwdriver and take the thing apart than puncture the sticker on the back of my Gameboy Advance, but still, it's nice to know where it is if I'm desperate. =)
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
Why don't we just hire somebody to hold one of those Tomb Raider lights for us when we play? Oh wait...I wanted to light up the screen, not my face...
From the site:
;-)
Sorry! You and all your friends wanted to see this site -- All your friends got here first. Needless to say, the server is smoking.
Email justice@iastate.edu if you want to volunteer server space for PortableMonopoly.com.
--The Management
Okay..we got him..who's next?
Here's a story about it at IGN.
pocket.ign.com is reporting that there is a pot accessible from the back of the GBA that controls contrast. Check it out here.
Actually its a reference to Penny Arcade. Haven't you noticed how bathrooms are really bright for some reason, but it doesnt take long to adjust your eyes in the bathroom?
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
I visted and posted to the site before it was /.-ed. He proposes that the GBA's lack of backlight is the result of Nintendo's monopoly of the hand-held gaming market. While it's obvious that there aren't many competitors for the same market here in the US, this is not so in Japan where even cell-phone games have garnered widespread popularity recently, and old platforms like the Swan have held a decent market niche for a while.
Nintendo's been very clear about why they left out backlight support (battery life, duh) and as a believer in the market forces, I'm marginally impressed (they don't all work too well) with how many solutions third party companies have come up with for this problem. The consumer isn't really being too put apon at $90 a system. I mean it's BYOL (bring your own light, for the acronymically challenged), the GBC was too.
Creating business for a third party is not really the actions of a monopoly is it?
To top that off, it takes a modicum of observation to realize that Nintendo is not at the top of the heap in the consol wars, and hasn't been for a while now. How does this constitute a monopoly?
Is this guy just doin' the /. kneejerk dance or...?
This is what I got...
Cracked-my-ass-up! Sorry! You and all your friends wanted to see this site -- All your friends got here first.
Needless to say, the server is smoking.
"I've seen plays that were more exciting than this.
"I've seen plays that were more exciting than this.
Honest to god... Plays!" Homer Simpson
What is Homebew? Is it a division of Nintendo?
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Think about it, Skippy the GBA Worm Light. Comes with his own terrarium, you feed him nutrients and he's bioluminescent.
...
Of course, you'll need to get him a worm collar (only $19.95!) and a worm stand (only $19.95!) and a racing jacket (only $24.95, choose your own team logo! - Pikachu Electric Yellow is $29.95).
Operators are standing by
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Or was the rumor he was using PlayStation2's... q:]
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Some GBA owners have also found an adjustable pot under a sticker on the back of the system that serves as a contrast control. Seems to wash out the display and increase flickering due to interlacing, but some claim slight improvements. See the IGN board discussing it http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=6921262&re plies=462
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The game gear is almost ten years old! If, after ten years, Nintendo has not devised a way to improve on the old halogen bulb backlight strategy, they should start pouring a little bit more money into R&D!
Well, as computers get faster, they also get smaller... So although the gamegear was large, there's no reason for the GBA to be. I mean, look at the Ipaq. It's muuuuch more powerful than the GBA, has a bigger screen, a backlight, and plenty of battery life. Sure it's more expensive, but without the 200mhz processor and 32 megs of ram, and the large touch-screen it would probably be pretty cheap.
Huh? Incredibly small monitor?? We're talking about a simple backlit LCD. If you're worried about battery life, try lithium-ion batteries instead of AAs. There's nothing impossible about Nintendo providing the GBA with backlighting, keeping the product cheap, and keeping it light weight.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't or doesn't look better, I know it does. I'm forever changing batteries in my Turbo Express and Sega Nomad, but Nintendo wants to make sure that the GBA can sustain battery life like the GB and GB Color did.
:)
I completely agree that a little switch would be perfect(kinda like the ones some Palm Devices have).
Btw, you didn't come off sounding like an ass, just someone with a well thought out opinion. If you said "d00d y0u 5ucK a$$" then you would have sounded like an ass
Anyone remember why the GameBoy Advance isn't backlit?
Ah yes...battery consumption! Take a look at the Sega Game Gear(4 or 6 AA), Sega Nomad(6AA), Atari Lynx(4 AA plus a 6 D battery expansion pack), Turbo Express(6-8 AA I think and the best handheld ever). Those all had backlight displays! You also were only able to play a maximum of 4-8 hours depending on the system before the batteries were dead.
Now I don't know about any of you, but I'd rather pay $5 for a little clip on worm light for the system(which works quite well), and still have my 20 hours of gameplay on the GBA.
During the battle for world domination, I bought a Game Gear instead of a green screen gameboy. After the demise of the platform I took mine apart and took out the screen and backlight. You may be able to retrive an old gamegear for about $20 bucks, remove the backlight (its a small florescent blub), and hook up power, and you got your solution. Why nintendo stuck with the crap green screen so long is beyond me. Just don't shock yourself to badly.
"Get them before they get....
Ok we get a back-pack and about 20 gameboys... we then port Linux to the 32-bit ARM processor (if its not already... ;-)) and beowulf cluster them. Distributed Portable Computing (say that 3 times fast).
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
I tried following the link here, but instead got this fantastic message:
/strips/sw183.shtmltarget=new was not found on this server.
Not Found The requested URL
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
You gotta love causality in your error messages.
--
Do not taunt happy fun ball
--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
I notice that halogen lights are a little harder to see, but it's still managable. The whole reason for the lack of backlighting (as I'm sure many have known) is that it's a tremendous battery saver. Also, I'm sure it brings the price down.
I just cannot see any type of affordable lighting option that would not lower the quality of the graphics. You would be talking about the cost of a high-quality, incredibly small monitor on top of the cost for the system, and the GBA's price would be much, much higher.
What I am saying is that simple backlighting would ruin the graphics quality. To maintain those nice visuals, you need something more expensive.
If Nintendo had included a screen viewable in the dark, it would have come at a cost, as the quality of the graphics would have been compromised. The size of the unit would probably be greater as well, as shown by the mammoth Sega Gamegear from a few years back. The graphics on the GBA are very impressive, and I think that they are definitely worth needing to find your own source of light to play.
You would think at some point someone at Nintendo would have taken a prototype home for the weekend and realized that it is useless under normal lighting conditions...All the perfectly lit screenshots are incredibly misleading. The actual product does not afford you the whole expierience under ANY lighting condidtions I have been able to find. Too bad too because the graphics look pretty good from what I can tell.