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Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube
Laurens writes "Despite various claims of both Microsoft and Nintendo, this article by the Los Angeles Times has the first independant salesfigures on all 3 next-gen consoles. And it seems the good ol' PS2 sold best this holiday season." I'm an hour into FFX and don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the
Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
from the Well-duh! dept.
I bet this is not "First Post."
The only reason the GameCube hasn't sold more than the PS2 is because the PS2 has been out longer. Around here in Rochester, and at home in Connecticut, you're lucky if you find a GameCube in store. PS2s are a plenty because Sony's been making them for a long time, and there are lots of game choices. The PS2 is good, I'm not putting it down. But look where the PS2 is now, then see where the GameCube is in how many months.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Becuase the PS2 has been out for about a year?
Yes but every time I try to see it your way, I get a headache.
PS2's are more widely available around here. DUH!
You can't buy what you can't get.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
This article doesn't count major retail stores like Walmart and is basically disregarded in the retail community because it is totally off. Nintendo broke ALL console sales records and currently leads all the consoles regardless what others may believe. They have told their investors this is their STRONGEST year EVER - Meaning they're doing better than when the original NES came out, which is saying a LOT.
Get a job, or stop bragging that all you do is play.
Microsoft spokesman David Hufford said, "Xbox has caught fire since launch."
Not exactly the best thought-out sound-bite to be offered to the press....
T
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
At a best buy in my area, there is about an 8x8 at the base, 6 foot high display of stacked PS2s. I was thinking they might be empty boxes, but who would want to post on /. about that? ;) That's a lot of PS2s.
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
Sony's marketroids have ALWAYS given them the advantage in the console arena, even when facing off against superior consoles.
Of course, it kinda helps that the PS2 catalogue is HUGE, compared to the relatively meagre selection offered by the other two.
Backwards compatibility has its advantages, in terms of brand loyalty. Nintendo had the right idea by making the Game Boy range backwards compatible. Suddenly all the money and time invested in the previous console's games hasn't wasted. That's a huge selling point, especially when parents are deciding what to buy their offspring.
Walk in to Best Buy, Meijers, Toys R Us, Circuit City.
What do you see?
PILES of PlayStation 2's.
You've got to buy little Johnny SOMETHING! You can't let him play the Nintendo 64 for 5 straight years!
If Microsoft or Nintendo would have DOUBLED production, they still would have sold them out.
The problem is, they thought with the economy, and layoffs, they'd play it safe and only sell the small amount they did.
Now, Sony just gets farther ahead.
This is the first time in Game Console history that a company has maintained market leadership through two generations of console technology.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
...at least as far as I know, is that it's hard to program for. However, a quick survey of my friends who've bought PS2's indicates that very few of them are actually programming on theirs. Looks like shrinkwrapped software is the order of the day. <g>
Actually, it's the low-level programming that makes coding for the PS2 an order of magnitude more complex than the other boxes--but that also opens up at least an order of magnitude more potential, as any code hacker knows. The question of "which box should we target?" is usually answered with a simple number, and it looks like PS2 has a lock on that for the forseeable future.
There's also The Legend of Zelda. Most people probably don't follow this as much as I do, but I bought the N64 for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I'm thankful they released a second one for the system (even though the sounds the villagers make in the game are horrible) so it was more than worth my money. The only other game I own for it is Episode I Racer which came with the console.
Why are they selling so many? Final Fantasy owns you that's why. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
To say "it's been out longer" as though that's not a good reason to buy a console misses the point. It would be more meaningful to say, "it's been sucessful after a year and change". At this time last year, dreamcast had been out longer than PS2, by about the same amount, but had few big games on the horizon, and had been losing 3d parties left and right. And you can talk about the reasons for this, but the fact is that, not only has sony got a lead, they've made good given that lead -- just as the new systems hit the market, you get GTA3, FFX, MGS2, and all sorts of other games that may or may not be associated with acronyms.
What i think it *is* fair to say is that the fact that PS2 is outselling either of the 2 new systems isn't symptomatic of the futures of either of those systems. Nintendo always has a slow start, but they're in it for the long haul, and they've shown a consistent ability to milk their franchises. And Microsoft, well, whatever, they'll probably just release the next version of office only for xbox so all their corporate customers have to buy them, so they're ensured of success.
god is just pretend.
One has been out for over a year, while the other two have had 2 months? Re-do this survey in a year, it's pointless. Right now, non gaming people (aka grandparents who buy stuff for grandkids, etc) have had way more advertising exposure to PS2 than any other system... They don't care about specs, they care about what they think is good (based on what they see on TV, and what they remember their kids asking for 6 months to a year ago...) so of course there will be more ps2's sold. Wait a year, and I'll bet my right arm that Microsoft will be winning the console war (in units sold, anyway)...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I've seen a few people saying 'Well, X-box isn't going to sell because its a Microsoft product' and I've heard a few say 'It WILL sell because it is microsoft' And when I was in the store last week shopping for my son, I realized something. Consumers usually don't really care about this, they care about price, because after all, they don't play it, their kids do. On top of this, kids could almost give a shit who its made by, just as long as mom and dad will buy it, their friends think its the shit, and the marketing is in the right direction. Its pretty obvious if you sit in a walmart this time of year and listen to all the little kiddies go, 'But brian has an X-box!!!!!' or 'I don't want that stupid X-box, brian has one and it sucks, I want a PS2!'
On the other hand, you have the older people that like to play them.. like myself. But thats a different story. =)
Can all fish swim?
Umm. That argument has been around for a while, and I don't get it. I'm not going to go to a Walmart looking for a Gamecube, and when I find they're sold out, say "Hm, I haven't bought a Playstation 2 in the past year, but since I can't find the thing I want, I'll buy it now!"
That argument might work if GC's/XBoxes were hard to come by for months like the PS2 was. If you shop around town or wait a week or two, you'll find the console you want.
I personally think it's just because both systems (Xbox and GC) have crap for games right now. I can only think of one game between the two I'd shell out ~$50 for (Super Smash Bros)!
The data used is over ten days old and doesn't include sales figures from Walmart, Nintendo's leading retailer. So the numbers aren't even close to being correct.
I also believe its because of the amount of games that are out for these systems, Game Cube has like 6 or 7 games (give or take a few) and so far xbox hasnt come out with a amazing game yet, while PS2 has a bunch of them..
"Humanize war? You might as talk about humanizing hell!" -- British Admiral Jacky Fisher
Care for yourself, you are alive.. enjoy your life. But if you want to be frustratd all your life for few victims you never knew... go ahead. Close yourself in a room and moan. If you are such emotionally unstable person, you are totally useless in anything and the only thing you need is a shrink.
Console wars are fought over who can get the best games that appeal to the masses out there. I've been seeing ads for NFL 2K2 and NBA 2K2, which are both being developed for all platforms by Sega. Sega wants to reach as many customers as possible with this strategy, but I feel that the real winner will be the platform with exclusive rights to a game that appeals to the masses. Sony has Squaresoft and the Final Fantasy series of games, and Nintendo has all of it's trademarked characters appearing on the Game Cube and Gameboy Advance. I haven't been following the X-Box too closely, so I do not know what's exclusive there.
The PS2 has the advantage that it plays ps1 games and DVD's.
Also if you have a ps1 what unit are you going to get? PS1 games don't look great but many are more fun than there ps2 conterparts and they are cheap.
Also more and more and better games are starting to appear for the PS2 MGS2, FF etc...
Plus the fact the sony appears to be able to churn them out quicker than demand doesn't hurt. That cube seems hard to find.
But, the games really make the difference, and I'm sure that the PS2 is killing on them this christmas :)
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
. .
Can't talk know, gotta be entertained.
Does anyone attempt to better things around them? Or if one is comfortable already, is there nothing more to do but to maintain the sofa stance?
To the PS2's credit, there is quite a nifty selection of games to choose from in Sony-land. GTA3, GT3, Devil May Cry, etc. But this is a far cry from this time last year, when most of the PS2 games were mediocre at best. Give the Gamecube a year to pick up steam.
I think the point was that the PS2 has sold more this holdiday season...being out for about a year has nothing to do with it...in fact most people would have expected the two new consoles to sell more then the PS2...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
How could either of them possibly outsell the PlayStation 2 when neither had shipped enough units to even compete. Both Gamecube and Xbox are sold out, they couldn't have possibly sold more than they did. To make it seem as if they lost some sort of non-existant competetion is rather silly. Remember the first month of the PS2? I bet lots of consoles outsold it that month. Playstation One, probably even the old N64. It's not becuase they were better or anything, it's simply that Sony shipped fewer PS2's that month than most consoles happen to sell in an average month.
If there were more Xbox's/Gamecubes to sell (enough to meet current demand; there are a few of each still availalbe, but only in those god-forsaken bundles, and almost only entirely through the internet), I'm sure they would have probably handily outsold the PS2.
Repetitive. We've had Taco Snotting, Let Me Get This Straight, page lengthening/widening etc. sooo many times now.
Personally abusive. Many of these troll posts are about the supposed sexual proclivites of people who the trolls have never met. Get over it. These people are giving you a forum to troll for free - and how do you repay them?
Boring. A proper troll should engage the readers attention for the whole post and then encourage them to make an ill-considered, hysterical response.
On the plus side, great advance have been made in the field of making goatse.cx links look innocuous - or indeed interesting.
Get yourselves together guys. A skillful troll is a wonder to behold. Please, either try harder or fuck off.
"Under the iron bridge, we fist" - The Smiths, Still Ill
But they find out what went wrong on version 1 and dominate in later versions.
Not that I'm not happy to see PS's beating MS's box, but if you look, the figures are not collected on the same time period. PS2 has 4 days of sales more., and is selling on Avg 35000 boxes a day. PS2 had a 140000 box head start.
;) Of course there are many factors effecting the stats for all camps. #of games, marketing hype ect. Its still a little to early to see who will win in the long run ;)
Co. AveBox/Day
PS2 34357
X-box 38916
G-Cube 28666
thus it would seem that MicroSoft has been selling 4000 boxes a day since it came out. Proving that statistices can show whatever you are are paid to.
Sony sold 962,000 PlayStation 2 consoles between Nov. 11 and Dec. 8, according to CSFB estimates based on figures compiled by research firm NPDFunworld. Microsoft, which launched Xbox on Nov. 15, sold 934,000 consoles. The GameCube, introduced Nov. 18, sold 602,000.
So let me get this straight, in this random, particular time period, Sony outsold GameCube and Xbox. Hmmm. First of all, it seems like the article is referring to actual sales to individuals, not sales to vendors. I'm not 100% sure but I've always thought the companies make their statements by how many items they have sold to vendors, because once the vendor buys it from Nintendo, or Microsoft, or Sony, then they've made their money.
Secondly, the most unfair thing about this article is the time period. I hate both Microsoft and their inferior Xbox, but I have to come to it's defense here, the study says Sony outsold Microsoft when in fact, according to their own results, Microsoft sold 28,000 less consoles, yet had 4 less days than Sony to do so. So basically, the Xbox was selling for 6/7 of the time the PS2 was, yet it sold at a rate of 38,917 boxes per day as compared to 34,357 PS2s per day.
Lastly, as for Nintendo's case, I just flat out don't believe those numbers. I talked to the local Best Buy and also to a few electronics stores in the mall just out of curiosity, and they say they've sold more Gamecubes than anything, but they've also had more shipments of Gamecubes, so they haven't sold out. This really all is just nitt-picking though because the fact of the matter is that PS2 is crap. They put together a pile of crap as fast as possible and released it first, and it's earned a lot of money, but it's still crap. The Xbox is made by Microsoft, that's all I have to say to know that it's a big pile of horse dung. So, we're left with GameCube, and despite it's "kiddy" reputation, I find it to be the best game console. In time, that's what consumers will see, and the numbers will show it. Right now articles like this are just acting as tools of the establishment.
~ now you know
I honestly don't really understand all of this "fanboy" stuff about who outsells who in the market, as is noted in nearly every post here, the games sell the systems not the other way around. Really, buy the system that plays the game you want to play, and then shut up and play it.
You'd think that the PS2 would have lost its flash since the other consoles have newer technology. Technology moves quickly (think about computers one year ago..)
But it seems to be about the games, quantity and quality that is driving sales.
Also the figures are for the holiday shopinging season 2002. In total units shipped sony is way ahead.
Competition is good though.. Better systems and games no matter what unit you choose.
Right now, They have the lead because of better supply of the consoles... If it's not on the shelf, you can't buy it.
Once Nintendo and MS catch-up on the supply... Sony will likely drop the price to make it more attractive vs. the other consoles, especially MS's.
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Personally, I think a GREAT time to have been alive would have been when debbie harry was at her finest!
Free Love!
Programming anything good or original is hard. That's the way it is. Use the same tools/techniques/engines/libraries as everyone else and you get the same result.
"Under the iron bridge, we fist" - The Smiths, Still Ill
Our PS1 just broke and our PS2 is in the mail. Backwards compatibility with the handful of games we own was a big element in the decision.
The other big element was that the reviews we quickly looked at all said something to the effect of "Xbox for action, but if you want to have a variety of game types (action, rpg, etc.) to choose from, go with PS2." Action alone just doesn't do it in my household.
What kinda stupid article is this, of course PSX would outsell consoles which are limited in distribution.
Next year will be the real test. Right now seeing PS2 outsold Xbox and Gamecube is no more surprising than last year hearing PSX was outselling every other system.
When theres more Xbox and Gamcubes made there will be more sales.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I've also read quite a few articles stating that the Xbox and dreamcast have sold out. If that's true, then perhaps some people are buying a PS2 instead of dreamcast or Xbox because they're AVAILABLE. Also, since stocks may be exhausted, it makes demand seem larger, but sales seem smaller.
I really don't see why people argue about things like video game consoles, or even video games for that matter. Video games are subjective material, just like books, movies, magazines, etc..
.. well the games are just fun (for me).
Whenever people try to argue with me about whether my Gamecube is "better" than their X-Box or PS2, I just smile and tell them that their console is undoubtedly the best for them and I hope they enjoy it. I just got a Gamecube because
Simply because there werent as many PS2s made.
The year before, PSX was outselling DC.
PS2 had shortages, DC had shortages, and of course Gamecube and Xbox have shortages. So its not fair to compare a system which cant even make enough to compare to PS2.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Is Nintendo Sony's next victim? All Sony has to do is come out with a portable PS1 that can compete with the AGB in terms of battery life, and they're set. Sony will then be able to have a complete monopoly on the console market then.
602,000? That's a pretty dismal sales estimate. If I were Nintendo, I'd start thinking about what games I'd be making for the PS2.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
The VW Beetle outsells the Ford Escort!!
Sheesh, you'd think the cheaper and more readily available PS2 wouldn't outsell a product that has just been released (and at Christmass time too).
The problem witht the article is that it leads the reader to conclude that the PS2 is selling better than the XBox and GameCube, which is not true for the XBox. The sales figures are based on quarterly sales figures. The sales quarter ended Dec 8th; Xbox and GameCube hadn't even been on the shelves a month, let alone a quarter.
I am Slad.
Come on guys... we all know what is going on here. FFX!
Why do fans of a given system feel the need to freak out when there's even a hint that their pet system may not be the number one selling system? They foam at the mouth and rant and rave about stats and 'they're only selling more of the other system because blah blah blah'.
Can't you just enjoy your system? I've never understood die hard system loyalty anyways- all that matters to me is the games.
For this year, I think you would be very, very hard pressed to try and say that any other system other than Playstation2 has the best & most games.
Will this still be the same next year? Possibly, but I'm pretty sure that we will see X-Box with a respectable library of excellent games (even if MS has to purchase game companies out right to get 'em), and Gamecube will have a larger library than N64 enjoyed, though I think the big N will still rely on its solid core of 'kids' games and branding to earn them most of their money. PS2 should continue to be quite strong, and there are probably tricks in that screwy little EE to be dug up yet- though I would expect that many games may be starting to look a bit greyer when compared to its competition.
Interestingly though- there seems to be a whole lot of cross release games this time around- which may give glimpses of the various systems' underlying strengths and weaknesses.
But really lose the foaming frenzying fanboy fixation on your favorite platform and just play the games that you can get!
...can be found here concerning the Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 sales. The gist is that the PS2 will outsell all the others primarily because of the massive software base (remember that it plays PS1 games as well), and developers will be skittish to plunge resources into "the next new thing" when there's a well established audience for the PS2.
It's humorously written - and check out the rest of the site, it's a hoot.
anyone else noticed that the sales figures started on the 11/11, and both GCN, and Xbox launched 4-6 days after that date? I know it won't make that great a difference, but possibly enough to get rid of the slim margin that Sony has. Just my 2cents.
Nope, not me, I must be someone else...
Don't forget, we are a country at war, there are other countries who are at war and have been at war for a long time, and we still have plenty of incurable diseases. In spite of this, it IS a great time to be alive, but not for the petty, immature, pathetic reasons you listed.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
MSX1, MSX2, MSXbox.
sales hype about sales hype.... isn't that like redundant?
Yeah, terrorists are slamming crowded jetliners into crowded skyscrapers, some nut is sending deadly diseases in the mail, the economy is in a recession that's putting thousands of our fellow geeks out of work, and Americans are dying in a war, but at least we've got neat video games.
Wait. According to previous articles, MS had only managed to build about 400,000 XBoxen, while GameCube built about twice as many. So how could they sell 934,000 XBoxen?
Are they counting preorders, perhaps?
I agree with the premises of your post, (generally speaking) but this bit cracks me up:
Lastly, as for Nintendo's case, I just flat out don't believe those numbers. I talked to the local Best Buy and also to a few electronics stores in the mall just out of curiosity, and they say they've sold more Gamecubes than anything, but they've also had more shipments of Gamecubes, so they haven't sold out.
How scientific is that?
Another thing:
Hmmm. First of all, it seems like the article is referring to actual sales to individuals, not sales to vendors. I'm not 100% sure but I've always thought the companies make their statements by how many items they have sold to vendors, because once the vendor buys it from Nintendo, or Microsoft, or Sony, then they've made their money.
With consoles, that's not the case, to be correct befcause:
a) console makers lose money on each sold unit
b) the important figure, to generate interest from developers (who pay royalties to Sony/MS/nintendo) is the number of individuals that own a certain console.
Sigged!
But later in the article, Nintendo claims it's sold 800,000 - 750,000 if you go by some other article. And then this one article says...
I think the clear thing now is that everyone is winning this round of the console wars. Especially gamers who reap the rewards of healthy competition.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
"How could either of them possibly outsell the PlayStation 2 when neither had shipped enough units to even compete"
Whats that got to do with it? They were *outsold* by the PS2...they didnt sell as many. Thats the important thing - not `how many of what was made were sold`.
If we are using these sales figures to handicap the console horse race, then it's sales to consumers that matter, not sales to retailers. It's the sale to the consumer that generates the additional software purchases down the road, the word of mouth advertising, and the "installed base" figure to show to third party developers. Nintendo apparently has a lot more units in the channel being held by retailers, but that will only matter for them if they can sell more units to consumers.
True, for some it's just petty dick measuring (my console is kicking your console's ass!!)
But for me I keep a close eye on the sales because I know the software makers won't support a failed machine. Thus, I could end up with a Saturn/Dreamcast where there are some great games for two years and then the system is dead. Bad deal for those who spent hundreds on the system.
No, if I'm gonna buy a Gamecube, I want to be SURE that good games will still be coming out for Christmas 2004. I want that return on my investment. I don't want another 3DO.
So, yeah, I watch to make sure the console is selling and people are supporting it. If the N64 had died right away, sure I still would have gotten Goldeneye... but would I have gotten Perfect Dark or Majora's Mask? I don't think so. The user base wouldn't have been big enough to make it worth the risk. And if the N64 had had playstation-like sales, wouldn't Nintendo have been more willing to do another Mario game for it? And wouldn't Square have been more tempted to make games for it?
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
and don't tell me otherwise
Plus it has a game called FinalFantasyX made for it! Accroding to Futureshop [www.futureshop.ca] it is made by EA. =)
Actually I've been out looking for a gamecube here in the general Philadelphia area and have yet to find one, but X-boxs are aplenty...
If you check out the article, you will see the articles time span started on Dec. 11 which gives the PS2 4 days over the XBOX and Game Cube. They figures span over 28 days, if you take an average of what the XBOX sold in one day, it would beat the PS2 figure if it had come out the 14th, and the Game Cube was released almost a week into the survey thereby diluting its figures enough to make it look its getting trounced by the other two. If you were to take an accurate sample of the market, I imagine you would see all 3 neck and neck.
welcome to american popculture. fun and booze we never loose!
keep it simple.
...but not with the GameCube. According to the big N the Gameboy Advance has sold 20% more units in that span than any of the hook-to-a-TV consoles.
That would indicate about 1.2 million in sales (if Nintendo is to be believed; I haven't heard any independent data) and would also back up Nintendo's claim that they've sold as many total game machines as both of their competitors combined (with the GC and GBA).
So don't be surprised if from their position in "third place" they wind up making more profit this year than either of their competitors.
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
Last Christmas, it was the Dreamcast that was the incumbent leader outselling the upstart PlayStation2, with far more Dreamcast games and peripherals on the shelves than PS2 stuff. Now the Dreamcast is floating belly-up in the top of the bowl and PS2 is king.
A lot is going to change between now and X-mas 2002.
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WHO FUCKING CARES?
Fucking buy the console you like, play the fucking games you like, and be happy!
Merry fucking Christmas.
"And like that
A console's success is based on the games it supports. The Playstation 2 has been out for a year and as a result, has a great library of games. The XBOX and Gamecube are brand new, and as a result, only have a handful of games each. If you want to compare capabilities of hardware, then the GPU of the XBOX is superior to that of the PS2. If you want to compare portability, then the Gamecube trumps them both. If you want to compare number of systems owned, then the PS2 wins ... but take a look at the picture a year from now ... when the XBOX and Gamecube have matured to the level that the PS2 has reached and those are the numbers that really count.
Lore Sjöberg's article on video-game consoles says it best. Give it a read. ;)
o/~ Join us now and share the software
I didn't even think about that but you're exactly right. I think the PS2 was hurt when it first came out because it couldn't live up to demand. So like in the first 3 weeks they may have sold only 500,000 consoles (WILD guess, completely a shot in the dark) but they were gone as soon as the store got them, so if you look at the totals say 6 months after the release, it probably sold a huge number of consoles (especially since it was the only next gen console out there.) Basically these stats are all hot air and don't really matter. If you want crap games that have a lot of blood and guts, go Sony. If you want decent games that will crash every 45 minutes (per the users manual) go Xbox. If you want reliable games that have great graphics, extremely good game play, heritage (Zelda, Metroid, etc) then go with the GCN.
~ now you know
To me the most shocking part of the article is the horrifying rate at which the game industry is growing (did they say 36% this year!?!?!)
What that means for the console race... well once upon a time selling 700,000 consoles in 3 weeks was something to smile about... now that puts you in a distant third place. Even with the pie split three ways, the individual pieces are now bigger than the whole pie was ten years ago.
So there is plenty of room for three players. If in the long run Nintendo "only" sells 12 million GameCubes as opposed to Microsoft's 18 million and Sony's 23 million, I think there will be plenty of profit to be had.
So to ask which console will "win" the console wars is like asking which VCR manufacturer will "win" the VCR wars. The market is too big for that now. In fact, come 2005 I wouldn't be shocked to find a couple of more players in the ring...
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
and, if you have a bible, look these up...
Acts 2:21
Psalms 83:18
that will help
I've been thinking about a console for myself for oh, the past month. I'm really leaning towards the PS2.
Why?
It's the games.
Grand Theft Auto 3, specifically. But that's just me.
I've been looking at the offerings for GameCube and Xbox, and none of them are really all that appealling. Tony Hawk 2x? What the hell? Why not just get Tony Hawk 3? Sure, we all know it's the same game as the first two . . .
I don't want a star-wars game. Halo looks good, as does Luigi's Castle, but I really don't want to play them. I'm just not drawn to them.
PS2 has Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10, whatever they are. Metal Gear Solid 2 (hell, even the first one will play on it). Regardless:
I think Nintendo really fumbled. Really. Great that it's 100 bucks cheaper than the other two major consoles, but still, the games aren't there . . . bettter than the Xbox, but not enough, you know.
And this all is because of PS2's lead time to market.
I think that's about right.
Dan
The Final Fantasy series is not the only top-selling game Square puts out, though. Consider:
- for-a-month good, but at least worth a second look. So I would say that yes, the Square logo on the cover carries weight. It certainly does for me, like seeing Enix (Dragon Warrior series, Valkyrie Profile) or Working Designs (the Lunar series) logos catch my interest.
:)
* Bushido Blade
* Xenogears
* Brave Fencer Musashi
* Saga Frontier
* Legend of Mana
If you buy a Square game, it's almost guaranteed to be worth a look. Not always glued-to-the-couch-with-a-controller-in-your-hand
As for targeting older gamers -- yes, well, they have money. It makes good business sense.
Nintendo insists those are sell-through numbers. But who can trust them? They claim their initial shipment of 700,000 (150,000 of which went to rental places like Blockbuster, display kiosks, and the Mexican and Canadian market) sold out in the first two weeks and that they have sold - to consumers - more than 800,000 total.
If that's true then that is the fastest Nintendo has ever gotten rid of 800,000 TV consoles. If it's true.
Let me ask you this. Nintendo complained when NPD released their figures (which mirrored the article exactly, making me think they're using the same research) that they didn't take department stores like Wal-Mart and K-Mart into account, that they only surveyed speciality retailers like Babbages and Electronics Boutique and whatnot, and that Wal-Mart is in fact the biggest seller of GameCubes.
I have no way of knowing if that really matters or if that would change the numbers, but I can say that while my local Target, Babbages, and EB have been sold out of GC's for weeks, they keep reappearing on the shelves of my local Wal-Mart (as in, Nintendo is making Wal-Mart a priority for shipments).
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
I've been concerned that there might be another
console game market crash, but current sales figures might proove me wrong. Sony seems to be
selling tons of PS2 consoles now, despite the
fact that everyone was ripping on them for the
poor launch. It is next to impossible to get an
XBox or GameCube in any store where I live, and
there has even been a shortage of controllers and
memory cards for those systems as well. While
I've not seem a game a truthfully like enough
for XBox to buy one... there are great games
on the other two consoles, like Super Smash Bros.
Melee for GC and FF10 for PS2.
And then throwing in the GBA to the equation,
which I think is a wonderful system (probably
because it reminds me of the SNES).
Perhaps, if things go well, we'll see another few
years that are reminiscent of the 16-bit days.
We might see great games because of
competition between the console makers. I guess
we'll have to wait a little while though to see
if it is true.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
>This is the first time in Game Console history that a company has maintained market leadership through two generations of console technology.
in American Game Console history, maybe. In my home country of New Zealand (which probably means nobody will care about this mesage, but anyways) Sega was dominant with the Master System2 and then the Mega Drive2 (original was probably too pricey for people to pickup early on). the Nes was (and still is) an obscure console here. and before people say 'but those 2 machines arnt 2 generations', well the MD is backward compatible with the MS (but you needed to buy the adaptor unlike Sony's new thing)
Trust me. Go to cube.ign.com and check out the upcoming games. They have Tony Hawk 3, it's in stores now. The have a dark gloomy game, can't remember the name.. maybe resident evil? Perfect Dark is the best first person shooter type game I've ever played, and they're coming out with a gamecube version. The new Zelda will be like you're playing a cartoon... call it kiddy if you want to follow the pop culture, but if you think about it, it's damn cool.
~ now you know
The problem with these numbers is that it excludes Walmart. This really hurts Nintendo.
Nintendo priced the Gamecube $100 cheaper, and sells it as a family system. This combination makes Walmart especially significant for Nintendo. Walmart is their largest reseller, and is excluded from these numbers.
This is in addition to the obvious problems that during this time period, not all three systems were out. For installed base, of course the PS2 has the early selling advantage, but extrapolating anything from three weeks is meaningless when one of the three competitors wasn't on the market for one of those weeks.
However, if we pretend that it is relevants:
Sales per day:
Nintendo: 28666
Xbox: 38916
PS2: 35629
At this rate, Xbox will catch up with the Plastation 2 in a few decades. Nintendo should look better when the real numbers come out, as Walmart should help them catch up by a few thousand per day on their competition.
As far as platform adoption, Nintendo will be more dependant on Christmas numbers than the other consoles simply because it appeals to a younger crowd. XBox and PS2 are competing for the 16-25 market, Nintendo owns the rest of the market and has some presence in that market.
Look, ever since the "Sega does what Nintendon't" ads and the Mortal Kombat scandal in the SNES/Genny wars, Nintendo's weak side was exposed. In making a fun, colorful gaming system, it is easy to manipulate teens into thinking that other companies make "cooler" stuff.
Shrug, I loved my NES, my SNES, my brother's N64, and I'll love my Gamecube when I get it this weekend. My friends love their gamecubes. If the fiancee isn't kept entertained by the Gamecube games, we may pick up a PS2 and 6 or 7 games if the price drops (I'm not dropping $300 for the right to buy Frequency, FF7, FFX, Dragon Warrior 7), but even if so it is more likely to be for the PS1 compatibility.
Anyway, anyone who hasn't played SSBM (Super Smash Brothers Melee) or SMB (Super Monkey Ball) with three friends for hours doesn't understand how fun console gaming is. I play consoles mostly with friends, and we'll knock back a few beers while screaming and yelling during SMB or talking trash during SSBM.
I mean, to me, 4 player is more important than Final Fantasy, as I'll choose fun with friends over an RPG.
Alex
I got a PS2 last week for christmas (yep, opened it already) and i bought Grand Theft Auto 3. That game is amazing. I find it very addictive. The graphics is really incredible, the attention to details is more than i have ever seen (but then i have been away form console games since SN16 & Sega Genesis). M$ Xbox does look pretty impressive, but i like the idea of voting with my money. Besides, i am not at all disappointed with my the PS2. Once again I have fallen in love with an inaniminate object.
but I still don't understand the fascination for Final Fantasy (at least not 7, 8 and 9) I really don't know anything about 10, but being an old timer of the series I hope it is more of an RPG and less of an interactive movie (read: uber linear, no direction or choice of play). I just don't understand... of course I didn't understand the bell bottoms, butterfly colars and platform shoes in the 70's either.
When you think about it, I think anyone would be shocked if PS2 hadn't outsold both of the other consoles simply because there are more PS2s available to buy. Just think about it: Microsoft has 100,000 XBOXs and sells them all; Nintento has 100,000 Cubes and sells them all; Sony has -- lets say -- 300,000 PS2s out there and sells 150,000. In this case, is it really surprising that more PS2s were sold than anything else? (There was a survey done before Christmas of major game retailers where they expected PS2 to be the top-seller, along with MSG2)
Anyway, it seesm like a situation where everyone is winning. I went into a couple game stores this weekend (EBX & Babbages), and the clerk there told me they were selling out of all three systems.
-- Hobbits suck!
Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Sure is! There's so much to .. consume!
Baaaah! Baaaah!
I don't do Sony. On the other hand, since I still have some PC and Dreamcast games that have been sitting around for months that I haven't even played yet, not having a PS2 is no big loss for me.
A c compiler is where the true challenges lie anyway.
Rich
In short :
PS2 sold 962,000 consoles between Nov. 11 and Dec. 8
Xbox sold 934,000 consoles between Nov. 15 and Dec. 8
GameCube sold 603,000 consoles between Nov. 18 and Dec. 8
I'm really impressed by the number of consoles sold by Xbox, I wasn't expecting them to beat Nintendo. Some sales people in here were saying that the Gamecube was outselling the Xbox, I guess this proves them wrong.
Anyway, I got my Xbox, Halo and DOA 3. I'll probably get a GameCube to.
Just imagine the above post a couple of inches down, as a response to Merlin's, and it will make more sense.
Or not.
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
CmdrTaco said: "Don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX."
Well now, you are in grave danger of turning into the comic book store guy from The Simpsons. Worst. Trilogy. Ever.
That's the real joke, Nintendo is a games monster. Supporting Nintendo feels almost as bad as supporting Microsoft, especially with the stuff Nintendo pulled during its NES/Famicon monopoly games. Unfortunately, I'm a sucker for a new Mario/Zelda game, so off my money goes to Redmond's Nintendo of America.
The Gameboy line owns the handheld market. I just bought a GBA a few weeks ago, the older, color games are mostly NES ports, and the newer Advanced games, are mostly SNES ports. Yet these games, over a decade old, are selling for $40.
The N64, while not as successful as the NES appeared to have shipped as many units as the SNES over the years. Given that the N64 had limited 3rd party support, Nintendo probably did better as you make more money selling your own games than licensing third parties.
Oh well, if the Gamecube is as successful as the N64 I'll have many years of fun gaming. I'll just have to get over the guilt of feeding that monster that has been exploiting me since I was 8...
Alex
The PS2 has been out for much longer then the other console systems and its still able to outsell the other systems, one would have thought that sales would have dropped off due to people wanting to buy the new consoles, but it shows Sony has made a great medium and coming up to a year on from its initial launch people still want it. I own a PS2 and nothing about the other systems grabs me, the ONLY reason i might buy an XBOX is if i am able to turn it into a MAME machine.
In my town of 70,000 it is nearly impossible to get a PS2 rental game since they are almost always out. Almost every X-Box game is still in stock and I don't think we have any game cube games for rent yet...
Personally I prefer the PS2 because of BG Dark Alliance. My little brother got a Game Cube with Rogue Squadron for Christmas since my mom liked that game. She actually played her first video (R.Squardon) game at Best Buy and bought him a game cube, go figure....
Geezus christ, what has slashdot come to that articles like this get 5 - funny?
Xbox has about all the games the PS2 does. Hell, even an enhance FFX, MGS2"X", GTA3 and all the ea sports titles and everything else is coming over..
for a console barely a month old, the xbox has already 40 games to choose from.. anything form max payne, to halo, to simpsons road rage, to whatever nfl/nba game tickles your fancy..
why spend 300 bucks to run older games as well? that doesn't make sense.. thats like me buying a hi-fi vcr for 299.00 just to play a vast library of mono recordings from a single head vcr.
I'm an hour into FFX and don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Alive? How can you tell through the haze of pixels and special effects?
Perhaps the older games are entertaining to play?
Perhaps the older recordings are entertaining to watch.
Perhaps you're an idiot.
And here's why.
You say VCR's are standardized. As in, they all play the same tapes.
I look at the GC game shelf. I see:
Super Smash Brothers. Wave Race. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. Crazy Taxi. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the X-Box shelf. I see:
Halo. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky. Madden Football. A nice lineup of Sega games.
I look at the PS2:
FF X. Tony Hawk. SSX Tricky, Madden Football,a nice lineup of Sega games...
Get my point? Soon you'll be able to play 80% of the world's software library regardless of which console you buy. The only difference will be a few unique games and extra features (want DVD playback? Want a hard drive? Spend a little more for a different console. Want a better picture, better sound, more features? Spend a little more for a better VCR).
And don't get me started on PC gaming. I put in 16 hours trying to fix Max Payne issues on my PC before I got it running smoothly (new video card drivers! Download the patch! Check their message board for a workaround! Call tech support! Reinstall Windows! Download the latest version of DirectX!!!) Screw that. Let me pop in Halo or Perfect Dark or MGS2 and go. Plug and play, baby.
If it weren't for the Starcrafts and Civ III's of the world I wouldn't do PC gaming at all... somebody explain to me again why those games can't be done on the X-Box?
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
The PS2 having 4 more days in the market only outsells the Xbox et all by ~30k units and slashdot is bragging about it?
:)
if you figure the math out, the way the xbox was selling if these were on the same timeline the xbox would have sold over 100k units more then the PS2.
What does this have to do with quality anyhow? I know BMW sells 1% of what ford sells, but hell if i'm going to say for id better then BMW's.
Xbox has Max Payne, Halo, Simpsons Road Rage, Amped, Project Gotham, SSX Tricky, Abe and Silent Hill 2, all of which are plenty rich enough to keep me happy.
This is a multiplatform erra, why people think backwards compatibility is the best i dunno, i don't run Windows XP to be backwards compatible with Windows 3.1, i've sort of passed that era. Just like i wouldn't spend 299 on a hifi vcr to play mono tapes recorded on a single head vcr, doesn't make sense..
after all, isn't slashdot always preaching use the right tool for the right job. If you wanna play PS1 games buy a 25.00 ps1 off ebay and save yourself 275.00
Or if you buy a ps2, please atleast say your buying it to play ps2 games. You don't buy a 1.6 ghz athlon to play ping on do you?
You fell for that well-worn troll hook, line, and sinker, didn't you? Mmhmm....
Ok, well that's not completely true- it wasn't the *only* reason. ;-) The one thing I noticed though was that while the Xbox's graphics are better than anything else out there, the games aren't as good as those on the PS2.
A friend of mine picked up an Xbox and I've had a chance to watch him play a few games. Honestly they all look really good, but I'm not all that impressed with the games themselves. Halo has this annoying habbit of stalling for a breif second (in addition ot the short loads between areas of the map) which would drive me nuts in a FPS. And honestly, not having a mouse/keyboard sucks.
Frankly, I'm loving GTA3, GT3 (much better then PGR IMHO), Devil May Cry, etc on my PS2 much more than anything on the Xbox. Even though DOA3 has much nicer graphics than TTT, I still prefer TTT because once you look at everything else, TTT is a better game.
Honestly, the only game on the Xbox I've seen so far that plays as good as it looks is Munch World. But let's face it, between Munch World and FFX, I'll take FFX.
The initial sale warranty lasts 90 days. If you plan on adding to the PS2 numbers by buying one, spend the extra $70USD (I think; it's $100CDN) to get the extended warranty (2 years after the 90-day initial warranty). My PS2 chickened out on me the other day, but thankfully, I bought the warranty, and it's at Sony getting fixed (no more Metal Gear Solid 2 for me for awhile; I also can't watch DVDs). Without the extended warranty, repairs will cost you almost $120USD ($175 CDN).
In other news, the original PlayStation crept up on gamers. Most people played the classic "Nintendo", others were experimenting with Sega, and a few took a dip into the TG-16. I think part of the reason the PS2 is so popular is from the attention the PS got during its several years in the limelight. I still remember sitting outside the doors of Toys 'R Us at 6:00am waiting to get in and pick up a PS2 (this was last October 26th).
I cringed at the sight of the X-Box; and at various screencaps of its infamous "green screens of death". I'm afraid the GameCube lost my vote. The N64 went out the door once they released Doom for $170CDN a few years ago.
>>why spend 300 bucks to run older games as well? that doesn't make sense
You didn't do too well in your finance classes did you?
How does this source actually manage to know the exact number of boxes sold? They get their figures from CSFB estimates. Whose to say those are more reliable than those from the companies themselves? They say that "In the last few weeks, each company at separate times claimed to have the best console launch ever, using their own sales figures." and that when they spoke to company reps they got different numbers than the ones they had. So whose numbers do we believe?
And of course the PlayStation 2 is doing a better job meeting demand! They've had a year worth of making the damn things under their belt. Of course they'd sell more, they have many times the games of the xbox and cube. I think the latter two are doing remarkedly well considering.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
He's going to come build a supercomputer in there. Perhaps he already has!
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
There is a bit more to it than that.
First of all how would it compete in SIZE? It's going to be big enough to fit a cd in it (which is already bigger than a freakin GBA.
How will it compete in terms of battery life? Extra large battery? Hmm more clunkyness.
Will the games on the PS1 be more fun that the GBA? ehhh. It depends on who you ask, but me personally? I think the GBA would be more fun. It doesn't have your same old boring typical BS 3D style games that we are all tired of. Plus I've already played my PS1 games to death why would I want to play them some more?
I'm sure I left a bunch of other stuff out too.
Like the fact that the GBA has FAR more games than any other system EVER (Don't forget. You can play GB games on it) And the fact that more people already own a GB and GBA than a PS1.
I think I'll stick to the GBA, thank you.
IMHO, the majority of families out there are one-console (per generation) families. Granted there are spoiled kinds out there who's parents will buy every game system under the sun to keep them happy, and there are game-zealots who will buy themselves one of everything, but your middle-to-low income families just won't put the cash out for more than one console every few years. And very few people are going to buy more than one copy of a console. Everybody with me?
PS2 has been out for more than a year as everyone has been so quick to point out. The interesting fact is, they had numbers like this last year at Christmastime, and a full year for everyone else to buy the console if they want, and they're still competitive with the other consoles one year later (in terms of short term sales, give or take a few days). That's a whole lot of PS2s out there in homes. There's going to be a cap on total consoles out there, and PS2 already has a substantial lead in that market. Add in the backwards compatibility with the 17 million or so PSones out there, DVD player ability without buying extra hardware, fairly compact, stereo component-like size (I can fit a PS2 into my entertainment center far easier than I can any other console, present or past), and you have a very attractive console for casual or non gamers.
Historically, the market will only support two game consoles for any length of time.
for example:
Last Generation (Playstation and N64 won, dreamcast lost, though it's a debatable point calling it last-generation)
before that (Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis won, TurboGrafx, 3do lost)
etc, etc, etc.
Being first to market counts for a lot here. Unfortunately, game selection comes in third in my mind for determining who sells more consoles (overall, not in the hardcore gamer market) after price. Rating the three consoles against this criteria:
PS2 - First to Market, Not so good on price, great game selection (had a year to get developers making games look nice)
Wildcard criteria: Backwards and DVD compatibility
XBox - Later to market, decent price(you get more for your $300 than you do with PS2), fair game selection (Though it's slanted toward an older crowd)
Wildcard criteria: MS marketing muscle locking developers into developing only for them, preinstalled peripherals (HD, Network)(addon peripherals traditionally have sold poorly)
Gamecube: Later to market, good price ($100 less than the others), good potential game selection (franchises)
Wildcard criteria: Link in with Gameboy Advance, geared toward kids(Good and bad here)
My guess is that the two survivors this time are going to be PS2 (strictly on install base, not technical merit) and XBox (Sheer marketing power by Microsoft, not to mention its pretty technically competent). Much as I hate to say it, I see Nintendo losing this round, and possibly dropping out of the console market altogether (Focus on Handhelds and game sales on other consoles). I think they will do very well in this position, they've got a solid lock on handhelds, and they've got a lot of great franchises that will sell regardless of the console they're on.
But then again, I've been wrong before.
Well try this on for size:
1) There is only *ONE* game for the X-Box, that is only an X-Box title, that I'm interested in (and that's Munch's Odyssey, and it isn't a very strong interest). Why would I want to spend 5 hundred dollars -- buying four games I don't want, just to get an X-Box and single game I want?
2) I've got a lot of PS1 games I like already. I'm not going to buy a PS2 until it breaks, but when it does, I'll buy a PS2, and still be able to play all these games I like already. -- When you buy a new PC, why don't you buy a Mac? Backward compatability is one major reason.
3) I'm buying a PS2 not only to run older games, but to run the newer games as well -- plus, I won't have to shell out for a DVD player. I'm trying to figure out why anyone who has a PS1 (and likes it) *wouldn't* upgrade to a PS2 at some time in the future.
I've seen several of them die within months after continuous use as a DVD player and game machine.
One thing that was common amongst the environment, there was always smoke. So, if you smoke cigarettes, or anything else, make sure you keep it AWAY FROM THE PS2.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
Y'know Taco, some of us WORK or STUDY all day.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
Xbox has about all the games the PS2 does. Hell, even an enhance FFX, untrue MGS2"X", completely unconfirmed GTA3 in severe doubt right now, no release date and Rockstar has pulled all mention of it from its website and all the ea sports titles and everything else is coming over..
XBox doesn't have Gran Turismo. It doesn't have Devil May Cry. It doesn't have Jak & Daxter.
Not to mention Xenosaga, GrandiaX and a whole host of RPGs coming out first half of next year for PS2...
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
Look at the past history of the console market. Only two major units have ever been going on at once, while others get left behind. This time around, I think the GameCube is going to get left. Compared to the PS2 and XBox, the GC just sucks. I've not seen anyone walk out of the local stores with one, and the availability of games is nothing compared to PS2 or XBox.
In the local Circuit City, they have demos of all three sitting side by side, and I've yet to see anyone even bother to play the GameCube.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
A number of people have pointed out that the newer consoles are in short supply so they don't have as much of a chance to sell.
Yet, if you check eBay XBox and Gamecube systems are going mostly at cost at this point (the ones that are selling at all). I personally think that XBox and Gamecube sales figures are bound to be a touch inflated at this point by MANY people who bought extra to sell on eBay, so there might be a bit of a soft market for both systems for a month or two.
I don't know if it's because there were two systems released this year or what, but at no point of either the XBox or Gamecube had the eBay demand the PS2 did last year. I'm not saying that means the PS2 is a better system or that it means anything about who will come to dominate in the future - just noting that demand for each new system is simply not nearly as high as the PS2 demand was (though they also had a more limited supply than the GameCube or XBox, I think).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Of course the PS2's are going to sell more, many people have seen the PS's in motion and they want them plus with the fact that Sony is down right cool when it comes to the playstation it rocks. The book and the movie are really good I'm seeing Lord of the Rings tonight and I think it will be really good.
nothing good can ever come from staying with normal people
If you're constantly following the gaming scene (PC or console), then all the improvements in games seem kind of boring, because you know the immediate predecessor to the game in question was almost just as good.
But if you're away for a while, then it all seems fresh again, and it's a lot of fun that way.
My plan is to just play through the batch of stuff I have right now, then not bother with new games again for a good long while.
Have fun!
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
I work at a large grocery / general merchandise store and we have an electronics dept. We sell videogames and consoles and such. We sell 5 Gamecubes for every 1 Xbox We sell. A lot of people are tending to stay with brands they know like Nintendo, And most of the Nintendo users are younger while the PS2 and XBox Owners are Teenagers - Adults. The GameCube is a lot cheaper than the Xbox also. For the price of a Xbox you can get a GameCube with two controllers and two games. It works out nicley. Kevin
Thank goodness PS2 leads, but it makes me sick that so many people have bought the Borg Box. I wonder who Bill Gates has bought, blackmailed, or killed.
Strong third parties are BAD for Nintendo.
1. Nintendo would rather sell you Nintendo games than other games. If a console owner will buy 15 games over its lifetime, Nintendo would rather 12 of them be Nintendo than 7.
2. Strong third parties got them in trouble. They tried to keep them down during the NES days, but some of them got big. A few bolted to the Genesis, a LOT later bolted to the Playstation. Sony has no real longtime franchises.
3. Square is in financial trouble. Nintendo wants them weaker. The Sony investment helped them, but didn't make them too beholden to Sony. Apparently Nintendo owns (or owned) 20% of Square, at least at one point.
4. Square is the example. Nintendo wants developers to know that they can't screw with them. They are still the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, even if the Playstation had better penetration than the N64 (although not as much as Slashdot would have you believe... something like 30m N64s to 45m PS2s). Nintendo puts forth the least efforts to attract developers and is able to push systems. The 3rd parties tried to cut deals with Nintendo, so Nintendo ignored them and released its own games.
Users aren't loyal to Third Party franchises. They are loyal to franchises, period. Nintendo is in a strong position given that they have more strong franchises in house than anyone. Their franchises are probably almost as good as ALL of the Third Party ones, and that is by design. In the NES days, a Third Party could only release 5 games/year. This accomplished NOA's goal of only having great games, and NCL's goal of keeping the companies week.
Square is over a barrel. They are strapped for cash, and they are getting manhandled by Sony. Sony played nice while Nintendo was the big boy, now they are beating up the third parties. Everyone but Square gets to negotiate with Nintendo. Square will probably never be allowed to release another Nintendo system game, but who knows. They just have to kiss the ring... a LOT.
They helped kill the N64, which forced fans to either miss out on Nintendo franchises, Sony games, or buy two consoles. Buying a Sega console is one thing, Sega makes great games. Sony doesn't make games. I don't want to buy a second (or now third console) because Square decided to be retarded.
Square should suffer, then come back to the fold.
I see one X-box selling for $375 none of the other auctions have been bitten on. I see about 12 camecube auctions that are closing with sales, most in the $220-250 range. Most of the Playstation 2 auctions are on used systems going for $250. Based on the 'Ebay' factor, most people are finding the systems they want. Unlike last year where Sony cut PS2 production by 50% because of 'manufacturing problems.' If any conclusions can be drawn from the 'Ebay factor' it is that gamecube are selling out better than X box, probably because they have under a million units in the supply chain. Some PS2 owners are willing to part with their systems after a year of fruitless searching for games. More likely though these are people who have to be the first on the block to have anything new, and are selling the old PS2 units because they can't afford the xbox otherwise. Unless they're selling broken out of warranty PS2 units.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
I picked up Metal Gear Solid 2, and to be quite blunt, I'm not impressed. Final Fantasy hasn't impressed me since the SNES days, and though I plan to pick up FFX as soon as I find a copy, I imagine I'll just give it to one of my friends like I do with every other shitty Playstation game I end up buying.
I have all three systems, the PS2, the XBox, and the Gamecube. As someone who is totally unbias, I can honestly say that the best reasons to own a PS2 are all PS1 games. Period. End of story.
Well, the one exception of course is Grand Theft Auto 3 which is VERY, VERY awesome. It's actually more than just stealing cars and running over people. It's somewhat a cross between Carmageddon and Driver, with a slight bit of racing and first person shooter thrown in. Quite a good game, and a whole lot of fun.
The other two games I've been playing the hell out of are Super Smash Bros. Melee and Halo of course. Those three titles are all excellent, which and each are somewhat different types of games.
I would find it very hard to recommend one system over the other. And if I had to recommend just one, it wouldn't be the PS2. In fact, right now the one system I have the MOST good games for is ironically the Dreamcast.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
I -want- an XBox, but if I had to buy tomorrow, I'd probably buy a PS2. Why?
1) PS2 is cheaper. 2) PS2 can play cheap PS1 games. 3) PS2 has Gran Turismo 3 and GTA 3.
Why do I want an xBox?
1) Can use as an mp3 box. 2) Possible future hacking projects. 3) Decent netplay. 4) Halo. 5) Better controllers. 6) Better graphics.
But is it worth the extra $ and losing games such as GT3 and GTA3?
I think not.
mogorific carpentry experiments
That was of course flamebait, but allow me to foolishly respond:
More people are living better now on this Earth than at any time in its history.
Medicine is far more advanced and plentiful than at any time in the world's history.
Uncontaminated water is more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
Uncontaminated food is more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
Electricity and labor-saving devices are more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
The average life span of a human behind is higher now than at any time in the world's history.
It's a wonderful time to be a alive.
Of course people are suffering... that is always true, and always has been. But technology has made billions of lives easier and in some ways more fulfilling than ever before.
Literacy is more widely spread than ever before. The great books are more readily available to common people than ever before.
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
IF I were to get an Xbox, Halo would be the reason why.
I wandered into an EB a week ago,walked up to it and started playing. Then I look at my watch, and suddenly it's over an hour later...
It's a very good game.
God I was so mad when they made that xbox only. they damn well better port that sucker.
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
Meanwhile, for all of it's marketing glory, my PS2 sits neglected and unwanted. And don't tell me about FFXXIV or the latest and greatest interactive movie. Few things make me vomit more, like Microsoft, Dubya, Abercrombie-Bitch, or James Cameron.
I should probably sell my underperforming PS2 for another console, and hope for something half as good as the Dreamcast. But it doesn't seem likely. That Sega went multiplatform is the only savior of console games.
woah' there nelly.
My XBOX has its own line of games to. You like your stuff, I like mine.
Meanwhile, I wil get to play Silent Hill2, UFC Tapout, Blood Wake, Wreckless XB, GunValkyrie, Jet Set Radio Future, Blood Omen 2, Unreal Championship, House of the Dead 3, Crash Bandicoot - The Wrath of Cortex, Rayman Arena, SpiderMan Xbox..
Thats just a few of the announced games, not to mention Halo, Max Payne, Amped, Munch's Odysee, Project Gotham, Simpsons Road Rage, and Transworld surfing that i'm already playing.
All those games you brag about didn't come out until a YEAR after the ps2 shipped, i can only imagine what will be out on the xbox next year!
Extensively. That's why I bought the GCN. A gameboy was great for it's time, very small and is still popular to this day. The GCN is great for it's time, and will be popular for a long time. Of course, you're probably one of those people that thinks a 700 Mhz Pentium is faster than a 500 Mhs PPC, so I'm really talking to a wall here.
Actually, the GCN sells for $200 mainly because they didn't add DVD playing functionality to it, which is fine by me, and the funny thing is they actually turn a profit on their consoles.
How about YOU play both. I don't mean play Pikimin on GCN then Halo on Xbox. Play something like Madden 2002 that is available for both. Or talk to people and find out what the best game is for each one, then compare objectively. I played Halo a good bit and Star Wars(GCN) a good bit. That was the main thing that finalized my GCN decision.
~ now you know
I'll grant you BloodWake. Looks spiffy. UC does too. Most of the rest of those games are either 1) already on the PS2 or 2) coming out in parallell/on a slight delay with the XBox release on PS2.
JSRF is coming to PS2, as is Blood Omen2, Tapout, Rayman, and Spiderman, as well as Transworld Surf.
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
yes, but no Grand theft auto 3, very, very important...
More importantly, if xbox is going after us old guys (late 20's), they need something sensational and some sparkle.
ok let's see the consoles Sony has faced since the initial PlayStation :
Nintendo 64
Sega Saturn
Dreamcast
GameCube
X-Box
sorry but none of those are 'superior', the argument can be made that they are 'equivallent' but not 'superior'.
go away you ignoramus.
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Microsoft spokesman David Hufford said, "Xbox has caught fire since launch."
Now i know i'd never buy one.
Medicine is far more advanced and plentiful than at any time in the world's history.
Uncontaminated water is more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
Uncontaminated food is more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
Electricity and labor-saving devices are more plentiful and readily available than at any time in the world's history.
The average life span of a human behind is higher now than at any time in the world's history.
Well, yes, I suppose...; but besieds all that, what have the Romans done for us?!
What does this mean? Well, for one when the XBox and GC finally get released it will be an uphill battle for them to get the space under the Television. I dont see the same parents getting another console for their kids next year, so it will be really interesting to see how Nintendo and Microsoft market their new toys. Remember N64 and more spectacularly the Dreamcast failed miserably after PS One getting the jump on them, I figure without the Pokemon/Mario/Zelda brands the X Box will be gone over here by Summer 2003. Personally I'll have a GC to go with my PS2, just as I have a N64 to go with my PS. Nothing against the Dreamcast but it had nothing to tempt me, and I already believe the same of the XBox.
In the US, the just released consoles will be selling just because they are new. In 4 months time the PS2 will be outselling them. Nintendo will put up a better showing in Japan but will always be number two. I'll bet you a pound (whilst we still have them) to a penny that in two years time XBox production will shut down.
This is the worst sig ever.
Sony is a member of both MPAA and RIAA, and Microsoft and Nintendo are not.
sulli
RTFJ.
Just asking.
I'll just add a few more things about multiplayer - for me, I have trouble having a good feeling for how many people play a lot of local multiplayer games on a console vs. mostly single player games.
You'll have no argument from me that it's great fun to have a bunch of friends over and play games on a console! It's just I'm not sure how many people are able to do that often, in my case my PS2 is probably 99% single player use with friends over a few times a year. It would be interesting to see polls of some sort showing how many people are doing multiplayer often. I just assumed it was lower as the games with the highest sales figures seem to be single player games.
On Max Payne - I have seen that and it's pretty amazing, though I don't conisder it so much a console game as a good PC game! I know the XBox version looks better than the PS2, but I would be curious to hear if the XBox version looks better than the PC version on a decent system.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The issue of who is selling more makes it seem as if the one with the most units sold "wins". In fact, total units sold among all 3 counsels is far exceeding even the most wild speculation for this depressed holiday market, and if the current pace continues, all 3 platforms will be viable options for the duration of their product lifespan. That being said, the number of x-box units sold compared to GC surprises me. I personally went with the X-box, and am very happy with the choice for a number of reasons, but felt GC would be sell more units during initial release based solely on price and name recognition. Strange how people seem to want to validate themselves by saying they bought "the most popular" system. Hell, at one time 3 out of every 4 people I knew wore parachute pants ... where are they now ?
A fucking GameBoy was designed from the ground up to play games. Does that mean it is better than the XBox?
:-)
Well, if you could get an X-Box for $100 (not the best condition I'd guess), nail one of the controllers to the top, and replace the powersupply with four AA batteries.
I think you'll find the Gameboy soundly whoops the X-Box.
Now, if they sold hideously bulky Gameboys for $300 the playing field would be a bit more leveled. But at that point you might as well get the portability add-on for the Gamecube.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
If the fiancee isn't kept entertained by the Gamecube games, we may pick up a PS2 and 6 or 7 games if the price drops
My God man, don't use games to keep her entertained! Surely some more biological options could present themselves?
Da Blog
I meant PSX, not PS2... I have heard everywhere from 40m to 100m. I said 45m, but it was probably closer to 60m like you are suggesting. Who really knows.
I would suggest that the PSX steamrollered the N64, but I won't necessarily agree that Sony steamrollered Nintendo. Nintendo made a lot of money the past few years. The Gameboy color sold a buttload, the GBA is now making money (some numbers I saw put the GBA+Gamecube sales > PS2 sales, with about equal numbers of each). Sure the Gamecube will make some cash, but they don't make much on the console (Sony and MS lose money on consoles, though Sony may be break even soon, they broke even on the PS2 project itself), but Nintendo sells the whole widget.
Nintendo was the world when the world was smaller 40m consoles. Ninteno is now a small player when their small niche is 30m-40m. Not too bad.
Apple Computers is profitable at between 2.5% and 4% of sales (around 5% of market penetration). Nintendo has the same situation. The Gamecube and GBA are cheap to make. The GBA is off-the-shelf components, the Gamecube is a good deal from IBM/ArtX(now ATI).
I bet you Nintendo makes a lot of shareholders happy, and us Mario/Zelda lunatics happy (if poorer).
It's about fun, not which console is bigger or better.
Besides that, I'm waiting for the day where we get rid of having to buy a new console all the time and just have computers with bootable DVDs that load a mini OS that's just enough to run the game on the disc instead of buying a different console all the time or having 2-3 in your house or even running a game through windows/linux while 1,000 different things are going on in the background.
And that sums it up. With 2+ people the framerate completely bogs down. There is nothing new or fun about Halo. It's basically T:FS with no atmosphere. Yay.
In a fair and open market PS2 and Nintendo would be the only resonable choices. However, with the past history of Microsoft using it's monopoly power to further it's market share in new markets, anything could happen. I am sure Microsoft is already putting pressure on developers that need to license information from Microsoft to develop for the xbox; and the retailers to keep shelf space available. Likewise the old shills and munchins as John Dvorak called them, the people paid to act like ordinary citizens while they write negative stuff about Microsoft's competitors and promote Microsoft. Everyone knows that advertising dollars buy better reviews so look out there as well.
Yes, all this is going on, it's only a matter of time to see if it works or not - I guess they call it agressive marketing, but many of us believe it is illegal use of a monopoly power. Of course , unless Microsoft goes down in flames like ENRON, no one with any influence cares.Wait, come to think of it no one really cares about ENRON either or they would be asking the guy in the white house about his involvment with ENRON - no although a far greater scandal than Whitewater, we won't here much, it is declared unpatriotic to question anything the white house does these days.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
See, I have a problem with the second gen XBox games will be significantly better than first gen. With most game consoles, first gen games tend to be bad not because of time constraints, but because the developers aren't familiar with the platform they're developing on. Going from NES->SNES->N64/PSX->PS2/GC meant your developers needed to learn a whole new platform each time. Thus, the second gen games are better because the developers working on them don't have a ramp up time to learn the hardware and API.
Now, the XBox is a Intel chip with a NVidia graphics adaptor. You're programming to DirectX. This is not a new hardware platform. And if you look, most of the first gen XBox games were made by companies that have experience working on PC games. These companies don't have the "learn the hardware" problem that traditional console developers had. So, I personally don't think that you can hope for the dramatic differences between, say, first gen PSX games and FFIX. You can, however, expect development teams to continually be able to tweak more and more out of a GC and PS2 as time goes on.
I was going to buy a Gamecube. (I probably will at some point, if they come out with a MarioKart game for it.)
:-)
Last week I had a small video game party for the students in my department. I brought my N64 and hooked it up to the projector in the classroom, hoping to find a worthy opponent at MarioKart. (I had bragged to them during the semester about my MarioKart skills, and even made up a homework problem about it. Unfortunately, no one could beat me.) By the way, I did this after the semester ended, lest anyone think I play N64 during classes.
One of my students brought his Playstation 2. One of the games he brought was Grand Theft Auto 3. The minute the party was over, I was at the mall buying a PS2 and GTA3. It's the first time a game ever made me run out and buy a system.
After reading this comment under the recent story about GTA3 being banned in Australia, I had an idea the game was going to be pretty entertaining. While playing it during the party, I stole a cop car and found a little concrete structure that looked like maybe it could be used as a ramp. I floored it and hit it head on with the cop car, only to be treated with a beautiful cinematic slow-motion side view of the police car sailing over an elevated pedestrian walkway, and then got bonus points for doing an "insane stunt". I was hooked.
You can also steal taxis, and then basically play "Crazy Taxi", picking up fares and bringing them to their destinations. Once when I hijacked a cab, the first fare the game told me to pick up was the taxi driver whose cab I'd just stolen! Damn it is a funny game.
When I found the drug that made me slow down, at first I thought I better avoid everyone, because I was moving so slowly they could kill me easily. Then I found that everyone else was moving even more slowly. I punched someone, and he went flying across the street. I think that was when I knew I was gonna buy this system and game.
So, Nintendo lost a sale from me (or at least delayed it for quite a while) only because of GTA3. If only MarioKart were available for PS2...
Never played Jak & Daxter before, so I don't know how good the game is, but I've seen the commercials and am almost wondering if they went out of their way to make the graphics look so poor, or if that's just a PS2 thing.
Every Nintendo apologist always brings up this Walmart thing, but they coincidentally never give a source. Know why? 'Cause it's bogus. Where in this article's numbers did they say that Walmart figures were excluded?
It's even simpler than that, and you don't have to trust the survey at all, just Nintendo's own numbers. Nintendo came out with a press release saying that as of December 14, they had sold 802,000 GameCubes throughout the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. That's about 200,000 per week. This survey says that they sold 602,000 GameCubes as of December 8. Note the dates and the numbers. Just about one week. 200,000 sales. Ya know, kinda like the 200,000 per week that Nintendo claimed they had been selling?
So for the love of God, will you guys please quit bringing up this completely false issue of Walmart? Besides, you'll just end up making the Nintendo look like it's doing even worse against the Xbox. Because if Walmart were really excluded from the numbers, than while Nintendo claims that they've sold 802,000 as of December 14, then Microsoft already sold 934,000 by December 8th, not even including your precious Walmart numbers. With the so-called absent Walmart numbers, Microsoft would then easily be over the 1-million sold mark for Xboxes.
The way the article was titled it was made to sound like the PS2 outsold the XBox and GC combined. Leave it to the LA Times to use a really shitty source for one of their stories. First NPDFunworld began their counting console sales before the XBox and GC were even released and they do not count WalMart sales. My GC was the last one left at a WalMart in Jonesboro Louisiana and I got it on the 18th. I haven't seen GC's anywhere in any decent quantity since they've come out. WalMart seems to have a number of XBoxes lying around though. If you read the article you start to figure something is fishy then they say Nintendo's only sold ~600k units when everywhere else is reporting they've sold upwards of 800k units. They fucking mention that number in the LA Times story for fuck sake. That's just bad journalism. I also think there's some kind of misconception that only two consoles can exist in the market. In the past offerings from smaller competitors to Sega and Nintendo were dismal failures. This is usually due to the failures of the company's marketing and deployment strategy. You can't offer a console with no games. It just will not sell. Just like you don't sell and OS with no software.
When it came to 3rd generation consoles (for Sega and Nintendo at least) Sega dropped the ball when it ran headlong into the Playstation. The PSX was just a better design than the Saturn. Sega stuck two SH3s in the Saturn (not learning from the Jaguar's failure to lure developers with two processors) which nobody really learned how to use properly. Most of the first series of Saturn and PSX games were arcade adaptations. When the reviews came out saying the PSX mimiced the arcade systems almost perfectly and the Saturn met with some serious slowdown in heavily sprite laden scenes the winner was pretty evident. The market fell out from under the Saturn and thus Sega because they didn't produce something that could keep up as well as Sony had. Sony also didn't bother with their own line of arcade games like Sega did, they just jammed third party games onto the PSX. Nintendo learned the same lesson, arcades are too fickle to stick games with any substance in so leave it to somebody else. If the XBox and GC both maintain a steady list of third party developers I think there might be plenty of room in the market for them both. Alot of people own several consoles and a handful of games for each one. As long as enough games get sold to make the companies mula there can be plenty of consoles in the market.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
uh. yeah. can't think of anything else, so must argue that you are PART OF THE MAN! YOU LIKEY MICROSOFT.
you've got good arithmetic skills, but poor rhetoric. don't expect to ever get out of the server room.
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but the games on the GC are hokey or just plain bad and I've seen enough crashing in-store to scare me away for good. Given that fact and the typical marketting overkill by MS, the XBox will likely kill the GC in the long-run. (I'm not celebrating that fact, btw--it's damn sad that Nintendo appears to have stumbled at a critical moment, IMHO.) If I were buying a console (and I likely will in the next 6 months) my money will definitely go to the PS2. I'm not surprised to see it doing better than the other two.
It would have been nice to see MS get a good kick in the ass by Sony and Nintendo, however. :^/
--Rick
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Well to be honest, it doesnt really matter. I have owned a few different consoles over the last 20 years going from atari 2600 to PS1. Guys get a life. The only reason a person should choose one console over another is because is because it fits their needs. I will get a PS2 because my dvd player took a crapper on me and I could kill 2 birds with one stone. However, the Xbox is on fire...and if Bill Gates doesnt put a few more fans in the box, it will be a class action lawsuit...
Hi there, whilst it's true that at the moment the XB and the GCube do seem to be hopelessly languishing - I've a suspicion that the playing feild will begin to level, especially in the USA, once the market is flooded with units. Also, the potential of the XB seems to be greater than the other too, because of the number excellent PC titles in development; though this does assume that their is the audience for 'PC' games console! Title's like Unreal Championship (see this preview) on XBox could make a difference, though the the number of new titles in dev for GCube do seem rather too limited..
Yes, but you waste your time with posting on Slashdot. You dirty filthy lazy swine!!!! You should get down on your KNEES!!! and BEG for forgiveness by those lost souls.
or you could be like the rest of us and go on with your life.
I for one would prefer the game console market to be discussed and for movies and anime to move forward in my absence.
I know this is an old thread, so no one will probably even read this. I don't care.
Your argument boils down to age-old complaints about humanity from hypocritical and cranky people feeling as if it's their job to inform everybody of what really matters.
Yeah, there's a war going on. Yeah, people are dying. Yeah, there's been terrorist activity, etc etc etc. Just because it's got more attention now doesn't mean this stuff is monumental.
Everyone knows about what's going on. Just because someone is hyped about a video game console, or a great new movie, doesn't mean that they're, by default, ranking the importance of said items over global conflict/problems.
You'll be HARD-PRESSED to find someone that will outrightly say that the Xbox, PS2, or GameCube actually matters more than these issues.
You'll be even harder-pressed to find someone that seriously doesn't take any pleasure in life because, hey, there are more important things going on that deserve our attention.
Crap, I think a lot of the things going on globally are terrible, but I still love GTA3 like a demi-god.
I hope no one ever catches you enjoying a cup of coffee, or a night out, or anything else. There are more dire things to consider for you to be happy.
Feel free to sulk. Just leave me out of it.
When you talk about display systems crashing games, you have to remember that these are running pre-release games with about 10 others crammed on a single disc. I bought a GameCube and it has yet to crash, freeze, or what have you. I play Star Wars because it's an awesome game, even though I'm not a fan of the movie series. I play Super Smash Brothers Melee because of all the extra playable characters, plus it's funny to beat the crap out of pikachu. I play Pikmin because it's the best real-time stragety on the market. In terms of sales, I work in the electronics department of a K-mart. The PS2 has outsold both other consoles. Then again, the PS2 is the only console that we've had in stock for more than 5 hours. It took two hours to sell our initial shipment of 7 XBoxen. It took 1.5 hours to sell our initial shipment of 32 GameCubes. The demand on the 'Cube has been so high that we even had a shipment that I never found out about, because it sold out before I got to work the next day. I was still asking when the second shipment would arrive when the third one did (BTW, we just got that in and it's already gone. About 30 systems, 4 hours.) The next shipment is in the office, or was last night. I wouldn't be surprised to see that gone as well. The PS2 is a great system, but it doesn't have my style of games. The XBox is a half-decent system (when it's not overheating), but the only good game right now is Halo.
Then again, I've always been a Nintendo fan. Maybe these sales figures above are just generated by my karma's effect on those around me. Maybe not.
-Tom
Ok, sure the playstation 2 plays both DVD's and PS1 games, but um.. I already have a DVD Player and a PS1, so I don't care about that. Heck the PS2 won't even play VCD's, and alot of my movies are burned VCD's I downloaded from KaZaA and Gnutella. I'll stick to the easy to program for Gamecube. It has the same advantage over the PS2 that the PS1 had over the N64, it was easier to program for. So since we've ruled out playing DVD's or PS1 games, we have to decide which will have a better library of next generation games, and with its easy to program for, more powerful hardware I believe the Cube will give me my money's worth.
Sony's brilliant startegy did pay off this holiday season. The company decided not to lower prices because the XBOX and Gamecube would rarely be available this season. Sony's brilliant decisions payoff yet again.
Thank You, Adam Brown