I will however say that in my experience RPM's are a poorly implemented packaging system. I'm sure plenty will mod me as a Troll or Flamebait, and other's who've never used a linux outside of RH or MDK will pipe up extolling the beneifts of RPMs and i'm just a stupid, lazy fsck, blah blah.....
I'm not going to call you a troll. But I am going to assume you dislike the RPM format due to the dependency-hell problems of the past, if that's not why you dislike it, then feel free to ignore the rest of my post, except the PS. The problem is that many distro maintainers selected the RPM format (Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, Ark, even the LSB chose RPM as the standard format), and then packaged software with conflicting package names and file system layouts. So you go looking for an RPM for Red Hat, and find one from Suse, and it says it needs xfree86 3.0.3, even though you have XFree86 3.0.3 installed. Or perhaps it needs some particular.so to be in/usr/lib but the Red Hat package owning that file put it in/usr/lib/ssl.
These aren't flaws in the RPM format, these are the problems this project aims to fix. You would see the same problem with dpkg if there were as many popular distributions which used dpkg but didn't base themselves off of debian's repositories.
The other complaint commonly made is that apt is better. Apt needs a tool like rpm or dpkg behind to actually be useful. Apt is purely that part of the system that locates dependencies, like the part of portage that knows to build and install X before building and installing GNOME. It doesn't actually install the package or maintain the database of installed software. Apt also runs very nicely on RedHat. Connectiva and Ark use it as the default system. Mandrake and Suse implement their own dependency tracking system.
PS - In addition to Red Hat and Mandrake, I've also tried FreeBSD (years ago, didn't support all the hardware needed to install), Debian, Suse, Ark, and Slackware.
So what's wrong with this old song and dance?./configure &&
make &&
make install
No easy dependency tracking, no easy uninstall, no easy upgrade, no audit trail. On a server you don't usually want a compiler installed as it can be a security risk. It's really nice having a database of all the software installed, what versions of what other software it depends on, and reliable way to remove it without keeping the build tree around assuming the build system used has an uninstall method. The only way I would feel confident about not accumulating cruft due to upgrading big packages from source (gnome, kde, X) is if they are installed 100% into a single folder (like/opt/kde/3.2/(bin|lib|conf|man|...). Then I can safely uninstall by deleting that top version folder. Even then, I don't want to take the time downloading and compiling the source, I don't find it to be very recreational. I'd rather run `apt-get install kde` or `apt-get upgrade kde` or `apt-get remove kde`. With that remove command, it also removes packages kde depended on but nothing else does. You don't get that with source installations, you have to keep track of it yourself.
In the long run, unless you are meticulous about tracking which packages need which other packages, and where they were all installed, you are insuring you will have to rebuild your system from scratch at one point. Package managers like APT and Yum, and even up2date allow you to avoid this.
Not true. Red Hat's up2date supports apt repositories and the dpkg format is getting GPG signature/hash checking. From discussion late in the Fedora Core 1 beta stage it seemed that there is internal pressue to include apt in the core distro at Red Hat. Those are big changes, I think. I stopped reading the article since it's getting slashdotted, but it the author[s] can implement a single database that tracks installation by RPM, deb, and tgz, then I'd wager those features will be added to RPM and dpkg down the line. I honestly can't see either Debian or RedHat jumping ship to a new system, but they both borrow features from each other, so why not from this too?
Are you smoking crack? Do yo not realise that the quality wireless networks in the Eastern hemisphere because they don't have the same ubiquitous, affordable, reliable PSTN that we enjoy here? See, the U.S. spent load of time and money investing in public infrastructure like the PSTN, and cable networks, and highway systems. In turn, we created a situation where the services are so good, we're having trouble progressing past them. In regions where this infrastructure wasn't created, you see greater broadband penetration than we do. You see better wireless phone networks than we get.
I assume the proxy organization know who you are and how to reach you. As such a prosecutor or police agency could subpeona the proxy group, satisfying the spirit of this law. The idea is that if you are perpetrating fraud using the domain, this can help add to your sentence.
I see unfounded and baseless claims about Microsoft on/. all the time, nobody complains or feels aggrieved about those.
You're complaining about it right now. There is always a handful of comments with a +5 insightful about how half the comments in an MS related discussion are baseless rants.
Regular posts based on outdated perceptions and ill thought out assumptions.
Those posts are always met with replies which point out the truth, which are rightfully modded up to [+3..+5] Informative.
Funny how the media suits people when it is publishing stories that work for them. Sadly this will get modded to Troll.
Anyone who still believes a post such as this will be modded down as troll or flamebait hasn't read slashdot in a while. More likely you're adding it for karma-whoring, except you posted AC.
Besides, it's a myth that timekeeping is what analog watches are for. They are worn as jewelry for men. It's a vain, metrosexual affectation to wear a gold watch. There's your real reason.
No, fancy watches you buy at a jewelry store are worn as jewelry. Plain watches you buy at walmart for $5 or for telling time. Generalizations are bad.
You're a basta[rd]. And yes, I do have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, mostly due to my Attention Deficite Disorder. Maybe if I got back on speed I wouldn't care about unresolved muscial scales anymore.
I am surprised that mass emailing is still profitable in America, with its restrictive new laws against spam.
Your misconception is that the new federal law (which replaces all state laws, some of which had real teeth to them) is restrictive. The irony in the law being named CANSPAM, and it really is named CANSPAM, is not to be understated here. The law says that UCE must be labeled as such, but leaves it up to the sender to define how it is labeled.
More often than not I see these assholes wait to answer the phone until the song is over.
Some people have sensitive ears and get really agitated if you play part of a melody, building up to a final note that resolves the scale, and then don't play it. (Like Cartman having to sing Come Sail Away if he hears part of it) I absolutely hate when people choose a song ring tone and answer half-way thru. It's precisely why I use a regular ring tone instead of a song.
While I partially agree, there are various parts of the world which use million/billion/trillion to describe a different amount than most of the world, so for some readers, it was informative. I've seen it come up a few times on National Geographic shows where archeologists were having trouble reconciling differing accounts of events or places until they consider that the different sources use the same term with a different meaning. The most notable incident has been people looking for Atlantis as described by Socrates. Several conflicting accounts come together when the meaning of million/billion is accounted for.
Also, the post I replied to was modded as insightful, and I just couldn't let that sit.
The problem with that is the links typically identify the address that the link was sent to, so you're verifying your address is valid. Your address would then be that much more valuable to sites that don't get knocked off or bankrupt by a DDoS. So spammers will keep your address, and can charge more for it because it's been verified.
while Rawhide was only available from time to time
I've never seen Rawhide unavailable. I've seen it not work, but it's always been available. I've seen plenty of instances of some packages having up to 4 different versions in Rawhide at one time. It's truly nothing more than a collection of binary packages. Red Hat was just kind enough to wrap it in the official installation CD layout on their ftp server, so you can do FTP install's of it.
2) Fedora is in fact the same as the Mandrake Cooker project, which started... 5 years ago.
Assuming my assumption that Cooker is an ever-changing set of newly created packages which have not been tested/approved/released is correct, than Cooker is the same as Red Hat's Rawhide, which has been around for quite a few years itself, the exact number of which I don't know. Neither Cooker nor Rawhide should in any way be considered actual releasable distributions.
Fedora is not remotely like either of these. It has official, numbered releases, complete with a dev./QA schedule and has bugfix/security patches released for it.
But doesn't the US typically call 100,000,000 a billion in which case this penalty could be higher or almost as high when you take the exchange rate into account ?
No, we call '100,000,000' one hundred million. We call '1,000,000,000' one billion.
I think a younger Campbell would have kicked ass. There were some video clips on the extras of the Fistfull of Boomstick game and he looked a lot older than would have every pictured him. That game rocked, wouldn't have been as good if it wasn't him doing the voice-overs though.
He could finally add Presidential Transvestite to his list, already claiming Action and Executive. But, having two heads might also lump in the fucking wierdo transvestite category too.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not going to call you a troll. But I am going to assume you dislike the RPM format due to the dependency-hell problems of the past, if that's not why you dislike it, then feel free to ignore the rest of my post, except the PS. The problem is that many distro maintainers selected the RPM format (Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, Ark, even the LSB chose RPM as the standard format), and then packaged software with conflicting package names and file system layouts. So you go looking for an RPM for Red Hat, and find one from Suse, and it says it needs xfree86 3.0.3, even though you have XFree86 3.0.3 installed. Or perhaps it needs some particular .so to be in /usr/lib but the Red Hat package owning that file put it in /usr/lib/ssl.
These aren't flaws in the RPM format, these are the problems this project aims to fix. You would see the same problem with dpkg if there were as many popular distributions which used dpkg but didn't base themselves off of debian's repositories.
The other complaint commonly made is that apt is better. Apt needs a tool like rpm or dpkg behind to actually be useful. Apt is purely that part of the system that locates dependencies, like the part of portage that knows to build and install X before building and installing GNOME. It doesn't actually install the package or maintain the database of installed software. Apt also runs very nicely on RedHat. Connectiva and Ark use it as the default system. Mandrake and Suse implement their own dependency tracking system.
PS - In addition to Red Hat and Mandrake, I've also tried FreeBSD (years ago, didn't support all the hardware needed to install), Debian, Suse, Ark, and Slackware.
No easy dependency tracking, no easy uninstall, no easy upgrade, no audit trail. On a server you don't usually want a compiler installed as it can be a security risk. It's really nice having a database of all the software installed, what versions of what other software it depends on, and reliable way to remove it without keeping the build tree around assuming the build system used has an uninstall method. The only way I would feel confident about not accumulating cruft due to upgrading big packages from source (gnome, kde, X) is if they are installed 100% into a single folder (like /opt/kde/3.2/(bin|lib|conf|man|...). Then I can safely uninstall by deleting that top version folder. Even then, I don't want to take the time downloading and compiling the source, I don't find it to be very recreational. I'd rather run `apt-get install kde` or `apt-get upgrade kde` or `apt-get remove kde`. With that remove command, it also removes packages kde depended on but nothing else does. You don't get that with source installations, you have to keep track of it yourself.
In the long run, unless you are meticulous about tracking which packages need which other packages, and where they were all installed, you are insuring you will have to rebuild your system from scratch at one point. Package managers like APT and Yum, and even up2date allow you to avoid this.
RPM already supports GPG signatures, and dpkg/apt-deb is working on it.
Not true. Red Hat's up2date supports apt repositories and the dpkg format is getting GPG signature/hash checking. From discussion late in the Fedora Core 1 beta stage it seemed that there is internal pressue to include apt in the core distro at Red Hat. Those are big changes, I think. I stopped reading the article since it's getting slashdotted, but it the author[s] can implement a single database that tracks installation by RPM, deb, and tgz, then I'd wager those features will be added to RPM and dpkg down the line. I honestly can't see either Debian or RedHat jumping ship to a new system, but they both borrow features from each other, so why not from this too?
salesman: I was going to offer you some handsome cream but I see you've got plenty.
... volcano insurane!
peter: go on...
salesman: i'd like to offer you something every homeowner needs
peter: go on...
You got it all wrong.
Guy A : "OMG I just cut off my leg! Call 911 !"
Guy B : "No you didn't! It's just a flesh wound."
Are you smoking crack? Do yo not realise that the quality wireless networks in the Eastern hemisphere because they don't have the same ubiquitous, affordable, reliable PSTN that we enjoy here? See, the U.S. spent load of time and money investing in public infrastructure like the PSTN, and cable networks, and highway systems. In turn, we created a situation where the services are so good, we're having trouble progressing past them. In regions where this infrastructure wasn't created, you see greater broadband penetration than we do. You see better wireless phone networks than we get.
no
I assume the proxy organization know who you are and how to reach you. As such a prosecutor or police agency could subpeona the proxy group, satisfying the spirit of this law. The idea is that if you are perpetrating fraud using the domain, this can help add to your sentence.
You're complaining about it right now. There is always a handful of comments with a +5 insightful about how half the comments in an MS related discussion are baseless rants.
Regular posts based on outdated perceptions and ill thought out assumptions.
Those posts are always met with replies which point out the truth, which are rightfully modded up to [+3..+5] Informative.
Funny how the media suits people when it is publishing stories that work for them. Sadly this will get modded to Troll.
Anyone who still believes a post such as this will be modded down as troll or flamebait hasn't read slashdot in a while. More likely you're adding it for karma-whoring, except you posted AC.
No, fancy watches you buy at a jewelry store are worn as jewelry. Plain watches you buy at walmart for $5 or for telling time. Generalizations are bad.
You're a basta[rd]. And yes, I do have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, mostly due to my Attention Deficite Disorder. Maybe if I got back on speed I wouldn't care about unresolved muscial scales anymore.
Your misconception is that the new federal law (which replaces all state laws, some of which had real teeth to them) is restrictive. The irony in the law being named CANSPAM, and it really is named CANSPAM, is not to be understated here. The law says that UCE must be labeled as such, but leaves it up to the sender to define how it is labeled.
You mean you don't? I mean, what show wouldn't be better with ... hey, quick, turn to channel 9, the breast exam lady is on again!
Some people have sensitive ears and get really agitated if you play part of a melody, building up to a final note that resolves the scale, and then don't play it. (Like Cartman having to sing Come Sail Away if he hears part of it) I absolutely hate when people choose a song ring tone and answer half-way thru. It's precisely why I use a regular ring tone instead of a song.
Also, the post I replied to was modded as insightful, and I just couldn't let that sit.
The problem with that is the links typically identify the address that the link was sent to, so you're verifying your address is valid. Your address would then be that much more valuable to sites that don't get knocked off or bankrupt by a DDoS. So spammers will keep your address, and can charge more for it because it's been verified.
I've never seen Rawhide unavailable. I've seen it not work, but it's always been available. I've seen plenty of instances of some packages having up to 4 different versions in Rawhide at one time. It's truly nothing more than a collection of binary packages. Red Hat was just kind enough to wrap it in the official installation CD layout on their ftp server, so you can do FTP install's of it.
Assuming my assumption that Cooker is an ever-changing set of newly created packages which have not been tested/approved/released is correct, than Cooker is the same as Red Hat's Rawhide, which has been around for quite a few years itself, the exact number of which I don't know. Neither Cooker nor Rawhide should in any way be considered actual releasable distributions.
Fedora is not remotely like either of these. It has official, numbered releases, complete with a dev./QA schedule and has bugfix/security patches released for it.
Sweet, I could be a [loan] shark with friggin' laser beams on my head!
No, we call '100,000,000' one hundred million. We call '1,000,000,000' one billion.
That's telekinesis!
I think a younger Campbell would have kicked ass. There were some video clips on the extras of the Fistfull of Boomstick game and he looked a lot older than would have every pictured him. That game rocked, wouldn't have been as good if it wasn't him doing the voice-overs though.
He could finally add Presidential Transvestite to his list, already claiming Action and Executive. But, having two heads might also lump in the fucking wierdo transvestite category too.