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Tivo Tracks Superbowl Viewing Habits
ThePretender writes "Sprinkled in the Janet Jackson boob stories is an alarming bit of information: Tivo tracks subscribers' viewing habits. They know how many times the boob was viewed, among other good-to-have (meaning data worth $$) information. Yes, if you agreed to Tivo's privacy policy you knew they could do this, with the promise that you aren't identifiable. Put on the tin foil hats? Or just another way for them to keep your monthly fee down (snicker)." A story from 2002 has more information and makes clear that Tivo does have the capability to record every click you make on the remote control, at all times. Previously Tivo said they tracked 10,000 people for the Super Bowl, this year 20,000.
How many times did Tom Ridge watch it??
And our spying reveals that you believe us.
n/t
Anti-slash: In sacred jihad against slashdot
Tivo Tracks Titillating Timberlake Tit Touching!
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
HDTV broadcast beat out the use of my tivo this year. i didn't even record the superbowl on it. HDTiVo is supposed to be coming out sooner than later for a retail price of $999, dish only. I don't think i'll be buying it right away.
Your link doesn't work. Has this so called 'Jihad' failed?
- Privacy advocates have decried such technologies as invasive, but TiVo officials say they do not pass along information that would identify individual viewers.
While it's true that TiVo needs to collect "every click" as the first part of compiling this aggregate data, if the final data is just summarized habits of TiVo users with no individual information, is there a privacy issue?I hope they don't sell that information to my wife!
~Turd
TiVo Watches the Super Bowl... oh, wait, that was about TiVo and the Super Bowl of Two years ago...
/. by...
See, TiVo's had their semi-permeable privacy policy since they started, as documented on
TiVo Data Collection Ramifications
TiVo To Sell Customer Data
Nielsen to measure TiVo usage
So, if this is shocking news to you that TiVo was able to quickly crunch the data and figure out the most rewound moment of the Super Bowl broadcast, you haven't been paying attention. They had this capability for any massively watched program since day one. It was part of the design of the system.
TiVo offers a detailed data service to broadcasters which lets them see by timestamp within an episode what moments people watched, rewound, and skipped. Rumoredly, TechTV's The Screen Savers bought that service once for just one episode, and it ended up proving that their managers where right about what people wanted to see a little more than the actual content-making staff wanted to hear.
The Super Bowl most rewound moment is something TiVo's been doing for years, just for the sake of putting out a press release to get the TiVo name into conversations about what we were gonna be talking about anyway the week after the event... and from Slashdot's coverage over the years, it appears to have worked.
I want my
I want my
I want my MythTV
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
of interactivity in media
That's okay... the thing about TiVo was on Drudge before FARK. So FARK you.
Didn't we basically have this same story TWO YEARS AGO????
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
... accounts for the majority of replays tracked.
From the article, with emphasis added:
Privacy advocates have decried such technologies as invasive, but TiVo officials say they do not pass along information that would identify individual viewers.
When gathering customer marketing research, TiVo says it does not link viewer data to their name, gender or age -- only into one big database that can identify users by ZIP code.
What's interesting is how the article points out what TiVo does not do. They don't "pass along" information "when gathering customer marketing research".
It's not stated outright, but that sounds like they do record all that information... but it's ok, 'cause they don't use it for marketing purposes.
Which, of course, puts TiVo right up there with the so-called loyalty cards "privacy" policies. They promise not to resell personal information, but they do gather it, and it's available to anyone who knows a friendly judge.
The bottom line, as usual, is simple. Don't buy anything at Kroger, or watch anything on TiVo, that you wouldn't want [John Ashcroft | your wife's divorce lawyer] to find out about.
By the way, does anyone know if Dish Network's PVR phones home about my rewinding habits?
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Thank you Captain Obvious. Did you think of that on your own, or were you just trying to restate part of the summary with more impact and panache?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Back, and to the left....Back, and to the left..."
(The pitiful thing is, you *know* a video display exactly like that is going on at the FCC right now...)
Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
Is it possible to use a tivo without paying a monthly fee... but without channel listings? I use a digital box from my cable company, so I wouldn't benefit from it anyway. (or would it be better just to build my own DVR)
... that's why I'll never buy Tivo.
I am not sure if that statistic includes me 'coz I haven't un-paused my Tivo yet :)
Free XBox, PS2
They did it last year, they did it the year before that. They stated in their initial company releases that this is what they intended to do.
And you know what?
-DirectTV pay-per-view tracks what I watch...
-My ISP knows what web sites I've requested...
-My credit card company knows what I spend my money on.
-My hospital shares its information with my insurance company, which in turn shares its information with my company. (Because they have to pay their share of the bills)
It's my TV viewing info... I don't care. If anything, if they sell my viewing habits and realize that Firefly and Farscape are more watched than My Big Sweaty Boyfriend... That's a GOOD THING!
alarming bit of information: Tivo tracks subscribers' viewing habits.
This is unacceptable. From now on, I'll keep my Tivo box disconnected from the phone socket.
Just try to track my boob viewing habbits *now* mssrs Tivo! Ah! That's turned you white hasn't it, hey, hey?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Since Bush's State of the Union address.
They must know I watch alot of porn than.
Don't click. Link to porn!!
Any anonymization Tivo claims to perform on data uploaded by an individual's Tivo unit is rendered utterly and totally worthless by the medium by which the data is transferred - a landline. Only an idiot would believe that Tivo doesn't use ANI information to tie data to individual users, even if the actual clickstream data being uploaded doesn't have include a serial number.
The marketing opportunities are too valuable to the company for them to ignore the possibility of selling detailed, individual viewer data as a revenue stream.
"Tivo: It's like Gator, for TV!"
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
> A story from 2002 has more information and makes clear that Tivo does have the capability to record every click you make on the remote control, at all times.
Fortunately, they still don't have the ability to track what your other hand is doing, at any time.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I Tivo'd the game, and I have no problem with them anonomously keeping track of the number of times I rewound and slomo'd through the scene.
This conspiracy stuff can go a little overboard too, ya know.
I, for one, am glad they got a little press from this. Tivo rocks -- 'nuff said.
-- CP
Crispin, always wanted to be in the Neilson ratings
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
CTO, Immunix Inc.
Alarm?
What alarm?
This is a non-story.
I'd like to see a distribution of the amount of time the machine was kept on pause during that event. That would yield another interesting statistic. ;-)
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Personally, I'd much rather have Tivo tracking users than networks relying on nielson ratings. This can only hurt shows like Malcolm In The Middle and Everybody Loves Raymond, two shows people "love" but nobody watches. With accurate ratings, these shows would have ratings lower than enrollment in daycare at neverland ranch.
Well, that's nice and exclusive. So, they just choose days they want to capture user viewing habits? I don't quite understand the whole point, then again I don't see what's wrong with the standard neilsen rating system where you actually get to know they're caring. Even though I rarely wonder about this sort of thing, it's upsetting because I don't know why they want to keep track of thing instead of concentrating on supplying a good consumer service as their primary goal.
What about when your mom walked in on you rubbing one out? *THAT* was invasion of privacy.
Or what about when you were at the rest stop taking a leak and some guy plopped his hand through the hole in the stall you were in? If you didn't follow through with the action, that would've been invasion of privacy.
Just because Tivo collects info about your Beastiality watching habits on dogsex channel 99 (a friend of mine watches it), doesn't mean they're gonna tell your new girlfriend that you get off on horses and peacocks.
--------
Elmond, 45, delivers boxes to old women in Seattle.
Is show some more detail about what commercials were most watched also...
I just can't help but think that if real viewing stats were used as predictors of progamming popularity, we might have more stuff like Firefly, Mythbusters, Penn & Teller's Bullshit, etc. and less Everyone Loves Raymond, Friends, Frasier, or a million indistinct reality TV shows.
If it keeps shows I want to watch on the air longer, then let them see what I'm watching and recording, I say.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I am utterly failing to be either surprised or alarmed.
... so? Yes, I would be concerned if they said "Matt Hooper, 26, of Colorado Springs replayed the Janet Jackson breast scene a record 126 times. Sales statistics in the area also show an unusual spike in hand lotion and tissue purchases."
n y" standard Slashdot response, think about what you have trusted companies with. How many companies have your name and address? Your home phone number? Your bank account information? Your credit card information? Why did you trust them with such information, if no companies can ever be trusted?
OH NO! THEY CAN TELL THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE WATCHED THAT SCENE! DEAR LORD, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Ummmm
They haven't said that, or anything remotely resembling that. They have said "Tivo users watched this particular segment of the Superbowl more than anything else." So?
Yes, Tivo could do something horrible with my personal information. But then again, Hustler could also publish a big long list of everybody that subscribes to it, complete with home addresses, but they don't. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but at some point we just have to have some level of trust in other people. Tivo has said that my information is kept anonymous, and has given me no reason to doubt their word, so I don't see a big problem with trusting them.
And before you start the "oh-my-god-what-an-idiot-for-trusting-a-big-compa
If you have used a credit card, you must trust every single store at which you have ever swiped your credit card at least as much as I trust Tivo. If you have ever applied for a loan, you've coughed up your bank account information. And you're worried about someone knowing what television shows you're watching?
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Here are a few links to a page on Norways biggest Newspapers website that show all the picture uncensored and even have the uncensored movie of her. Oh yes, it also includes the streaker that nobody in the US saw.
Click on "Neste Bilde" to see the next picture
Video
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Here's the story straight from the horses mouth: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT= 104&STORY=/www/story/02-02-2004/0002101168&EDA TE=
I am going to be scarred for life.
Mike Hoye
I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't mind Tivo tracking me, in fact, I think I want it to. It'd be nice to track the statistics of some of the shows I like, possibly keeping them on air longer. This could be a good thing.
Some of you may have heard that CBS refused to air the winning MoveOn.org's " Bush in 30 Seconds " ad. Just prior to the Superbowl, MoveOn.org asked their subscribers/readers to boycott CBS by switching from CBS during the commercials to CNN, who were airing their 30-second spot.
Presumably, Tivo knows precisely how many people actually went through with it.
My
Limekiller
thx
mythtv.org
..actually who cares about karma
[rattles tin cup containing a few pieces of karma]
love, AC
I watched the superbowl in HDTV ... so even tho I have a Tivo. My digital outputs go right to my TV. So .. I never touch my TIVO remote while watching football or any other content that is in HDVT format.
Fark? Isn't that the site where little kids paste Admiral Ackbar's head on Natalie Portman's nude body and then discuss how brilliant Wil Wheaton is? I'll stick with Slashdot thanks.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
I'm in favor of how Tivo handles this. I want the networks to know what I like. I want advertisers to know what commercials I actually watch. That way they can actually write stuff I want to watch.
IANALBIPOOGL (I am not a Lawyer, but I play one on GrokLaw.)
The exercise revealed a 180 percent spike
I am sure that it doesn't account for my Dad's Tivo or else it would say 180 percent and counting...
Free XBox, PS2
so tell me, Genius;how do they track satallite viewing habits? hmmm?
oh yeah they can't unless you plug the damn thing into a phone socket.
It's good you made the McFly reference, because you're post makes you look like Biff.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
T hey came for the Communists, and I
didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I
didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I
didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't
object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me -
And there was no one left to object.
Martin Niemoller
With all due respect to the poster, saying it doesnt matter is a lazy ass way of saying I don't care right now, bother when its too late. Sometimes you have to care now to avoid a problem later. Otherwise its just too late to do anything about it. Its like cancer--you can do things now to avoid it or you can wait until you get it at which point its too late.
who cares if Tivo records what you watch. I find it far less annoying that Powell going on about Janet showing some skin. why our country believes it is perfectly fine to show violence, but not some nudity is beyond me.
they choose their stories based on political bias, delete posts they don't like, kick/ban you if you post opinions they don't like, and consistently ignore news stories worthy of note, based on whims. not for the open source minded individual, or even plain ole open minded.
and they often post things that have already been on slashdot for days, what's your point?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
For example, you can tell it to record a given channel at a given time, but you can't get a Season Pass for Red Dwarf.
The Disk PVR is not an alternative to TiVo.
I'll let my TiVo tell them what I'm doing. I'll trust TiVos "never non-aggregated data" promise.
... to build your own.
Nobody is selling your viewing habits to the highest bidder.
If you're looking at my "from the article" quote and wondering what I've been smoking... it's not me! The reference changed!
The Slashdot story now links here, but it originally looked like this:
Sprinkled in the Janet Jackson boob stories is an alarming bit of information: Tivo tracks subscribers' viewing habits.
At first, I thought, "Is the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal not enough of a "major news outlet" for Michael?" Then, I compared the articles... the Lubbock newspaper didn't even mention the now-famous boob, while CNN didn't even mention the privacy implications!
As curious as I may (or may not) be about Janet Jackson's breast, it has never been caught recording my personal viewing habits. Give me the Avalanche-Journal over CNN, any day.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
I watch Everybody Loves Raymond. As does my circle of friends. Personal feelings aside, it's won award after award for a comedy series, it's one of the few family safe comedies left on television, and is very clever in taking cliche ideas and plots and twisting them completely around.
Your assertion that nobody watches those shows is debunked by the discovery of me. Remember... never and always usually make a statement not true, so always remember to never use them.
for them to realize how popular boobs on network TV are, so we can get more, power to them!
If they're not giving out any of my personal information, what do I care what they do with the aggregate data.
I'm all for privacy, but not to the ridiculous level of some of these posters. I swear some people must take alternate roads to avoid those car counting strips.
Thx.
That game is the schnizzznit!
pet monkey Artemis who continually switches the TV to Cinemax After Dark. I am asleep when this is happening and cannot be held responsible for what my monkey is doing. He also watches HSN during the day and has ordered over $614,000 dollars worth of Hummels and commerative plates.
Fark is nothing more then a RSS feed, big whoop. When I CAN get to it (blocked at work) its nothing more then clickable headlines. For that, I will stick with The Hun MmmmmMMMMmmm the hunnnnnn
This isn't new, other than the updated number of people they're watching. Not reading the ToS of a PVR is like not reading the EULA for your OS. Besides, unless you're ashamed of what you watch (jerry springer, pr0n, etc.) then you can rest assured you are voting for the shows you watch. They'll know that I didn't start watching the superbowl until the 2nd quarter, and that I fast-forwarded through the dumb commercials, and replayed the good ones. I give it 2 years before the Tivos are the popular version of the Neilsen ratings box.
What I wonder is if TiVo is supplying the networks with information on commercial skipping, in return for not being sued for allowing such skipping?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Now, how many people are using their folded-newtonian telescope to watch their neighbor's teenage daughter use the Tivo to replay the Jackson Boobies?
..ly old news!
don't get me wrong, just because I take the chance to pounce... I believe in repetition to make a point, I believe in repetition to make a point, that's how the mind works and not everyone saw this same amazing revelation last year or the other times it has come up.
-pyrrho
I don't get it. There seems to be more public outrage at seeing a boob on TV than the apparent "mistake" of going to war based on incorrect information. What's wrong with this country?
When it is all said and done, all this did was prove once again why we should limit nudity, most people look much better with their clothes on, include Janet. Seeing her boob was quite a letdown, I'm not surprised that the SuperBowl ratings sagged a bit.
Ms. Jackson needs some support, and I don't mean from her family. One would think that they could implant some convictions to prevent this sort of droopy moral character in the future. We need more pert personalities to provide better role models for our country.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
they tracked the most watched and most replayed commercials. So what's new?
Everybody tracks everyone. Everyone sells their information to someone else and still I have yet to see commercials for things that interest me.
Let the people waste their money buying up all that info. I will just replay the old man tripping the old lady over and over again, sit there and eat my Pringles.
Since Bush's State of the Union address.
Yeah, but people were using fast-forward with that one, not rewind!
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
I have to say in general that I don't trust corporations, however I don't feel the need to bolt on my tin foil hat after this revelation.
I do think that disclosed practices (such as anonymously monitoring for viewing habits) isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm certain that Tivo has found and created new features based on viewing the tracking information.
I also think that Tivo stands a decent chance of displacing Nielsen's as a premier rating service. And as long as it is done anonymously, it is a god send. As I think that Tivo would more accurately reflect "real" viewing habits. (And of course possibly give it a geek edge, so that our favorite programing gets better ratings).
The second Tivo transitions over to a non-anonmous tracking service, is probably the day that their company headquarters will burn down. Outraged geeks will storm the place.
I think Tivo is continuing to walk on the correct side of a very tenuous debate over usability, tracking, and privacy invasion.
The comparison to Microsoft has to be made... If this were Microsoft I wouldn't trust them to track it, as they have a history of repeated violations of their own policies, written and stated. Whereas Tivo does not have that same history, that I am aware of.
Way to trivialize a meaningful poem. Comparing the Holocaust to Tivo gathering data about what frickin TV shows people like. Get a frickin grip. No wonder nobody takes you people seriously.
I watched the Superbowl on the big screen and TiVo'd the Queer Eye for the Straight Guy marathon for the girlfriend... yea thats it, for the girlfriend...
...when you came into my life, my world never looked so bright, my ass!
"19,999 of the households monitored watched the Super Bowl, the other household recorded 5 hours of Queer Eye makeovers. FYI, here is his home address and phone number."
I ask for a car and I get a computer. How's about that for being born under a bad
Other than posting some overused tripe on Slashdot, what exactly have you done? You think anyone really gives a shit about what is posted here other than the people who post it? People bitch and moan here daily but guess what? No one of importance listens.
Does this necessarily mean that more people watched the superbowl, or merely the same percentage of people watched, just increase in number of customers?
- shazow
to public information generation is NOT A BAD THING.
What I'm more concerned about it what happens when insurance companies use my genetic data to figure out that I have a genetic flaw which makes my stomach explode and refuse to insure anything dealing with my stomach.
"Boob tube tracks boob" What a scoop!
Which, the one on the couch or the one on Ms. Jackson's chest?
So, if this is shocking news to you that TiVo was able to quickly crunch the data and figure out the most rewound moment of the Super Bowl broadcast, you haven't been paying attention.
No matter how many times this gets posted on slashdot my grandmother is still unaware of this 'feature'. So please spare us your "it's your own damn fault!" routine. Privacy groups look out for those who don't have the technical savvy or "big picture" view necessary to make infomed decisions about what products they purchase.
On a related note, you might be interested in this link:
State of the Union Drinking Game
Unfortunately, I found out about the site a day too late, but it seems to be an annual event. So, bookmark the site and play next year!
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
Many people have already shown that they don't care about this type of data tracking, so I won't go on about that.
However, no one has noted the obvious: TiVo is a business! They do things like this to *gasp* make money. Leave it alone people.
What if we just rebroadcast it with implied oral consent?
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
If you have a problem with TiVo's data collection, call 877-367-8486 and opt out.
And all this time I thought FARK was only there for the boobie links...
;-)
FARK: Look for boobies, click, repeat. When no more boobies leave.
Slashdot: See stories, click "Read More...", comment without reading articles.
Yeah that about sums it up
I honestly didn't know FARK had comments, but I don't really go there often either.
... am ready to welcome our new Tivoverlords.
I saw the streaker yesterday on Pardon the Interuption. It was a pretty wimpy streak considering he had this odd puffy thong on. If you're not prepared to go full monty, don't streak.
From the long TV shot, I couldn't make out what was written on his back. It looked like a domain name. Anyone catch it?
Back to Janet's boob- I used my Tivo to fast forward through the entire aweful halftime show and didn't even know about the flash until Monday. When was the last time Janet had a hit song? Like 10 years ago? Brittney and Madonna kiss and get 10 times the publicity that their latest albums have. It's cool that singers like Alicia Keys and Gwen Stephani keep their tongues and boobs to themselves and get attention with thier actual music.
-B
I must have freeze framed that tit shot a dozen times trying to figure out if she was wearing a pasty. BTW, why are they making such a big deal about it? She was indeed wearing a pasty, so isn't she legal?
Sure, I rewound the Janet thing a dozen times while my wife and I discussed if that thing was a pasty or tassel or what, but TiVo didn't include me in the 20,000 because our TiVo isn't hooked up to the phone.
Everyone is complaining about the privacy issue but ignoring the fact that these usage stats thrust the idiocy of the American public firmly into the limelight. In a time when our soliders are dying on a daily basis and flights are cancelled for fear of terrorist attacks, most people are home fascinated by a quick flash of a nipple and a commerical featuring a romantic sleigh ride interrupted by a flatulent horse.
oh won't somebody post a link to a pic of this b00b
I have a ReplayTV.
This means I can not only watch the Superbowl without commercials, but also that no-one else will know!
TiVo == bad
I'm a 2000 man.
When I got TiVo about 8 months ago, I was impressed at it's ability to be able to play and record at the same time as well as the ability to know exactly where to restart a stopped program and it won't record a previously recorded program.
... while I am on a roll here ... just as well call Darl (TiVo uses Linux) and the RIAA (I replayed the Pepsi commercial without paying a fee per song) and the FCC (Mr. Powell will love this one)
This thing is pretty darned smart actually and I am not surprised but particularly unhappy to learn that they are apparently logging me and uploading during the daily call to retrieve program info.
I do know that I like TiVo alot but I will be registering a complaint with TiVo and the FTC
Best
TG
When you have concerns about using a corporation's product for whatever reason, you can always go your own way and build it yourself.
Think of Linus.
Does this mean I'm going to get arrested for TiVOing stolen cable?
Here's a link to the stats
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Of course, next year, her nipples will have little stickers that say "Drink Pepsi!" on them... but hey, life's full of compromises.
Your TiVO watches YOU!
I fail to see what the big deal is here. If Tivo decides that they want to sell ALL of the information they gather about you, and you sign an agreement saying it is ok, then Tivo can do whatever they want with that data. If you don't like Tivo's privacy policy, just don't get a Tivo. In a free market, if privacy is a big enough deal to enough people, the market will figure that out and someone will make one that does not collect any data on it's customers.
If you really don't want them to be 100% aware of your habits generate some random noise.
The modern method would be an IR-equipped laptop which can change channels/volume/etc randomly while you're away (just have your TV volume down).
Or you could do it the old fashioned way (tape a few dozen remotes to the ground of a small room, put a few dozen cats in room... or just tape remotes to cat's feet).
Wake up and smell the coffee. Have you never noticed how it takes 1-2 days for articles to filter through from el reg to slashdot?
People read slashdot because it collects all the important stuff together well. Yes, it may be half a day or so behind sometimes, but better that than having to go to 40 different sites to check each one individually for news on that particular subject that you are interested in.
</rant>
You know you've been IMing too long when you almost say 'lol' out loud to a non-geeky friend...
It was a device to protect Janet from Tivo spying activity not, as I had at first assumed, a defence against orphaned suckling bats, or one half of a pair of spurs that had somehow slipped upwards.
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
and they often post things that have already been on slashdot for days, what's your point?"
Yeah Michael, when are we gonna get the story about how www.nic.cx changed their TOS delibrately to get rid of goatse.cx? hmmmmmm????
Aaaaaargh. You just got set to 'foe' for linking to a page that resizes my browser window.
1) Thou shalt not make noise.
2) Thou shalt not make new windows.
3) Thou shalt not change existing windows.
I'm still recovering from the horror of the experience.
~Lake
Are you really sure you want advertisers knowing you watch a certain show? Shows make their money by selling commercials, but if the advertisers know you are skipping them with the TiVo, why would they pay? I think it would be cool if TiVo (or ReplayTV for me) would tell people I'm watching their shows, but I think people knowing that I'm intentionally skipping their commercials will lead to FASTER cancellization of my shows.
So, if you are skipping the commercials, TiVo knows it and could sell this aggregate info to advertisers. The result could either be fewer companies wanting to pay for nobody to watch their ads OR more companies putting ads INSIDE the show... i.e. those little ads Fox has running in the lower corner of the Simpsons with a Bachelorette running away from pursuing men.
IANAL, but I play one on
You and people like you are what's wrong with this country.
Is this the first time a younger kid has touched an older Jackson, and not the other way around? Man, and you culd also turn around older MJ jokes, like Super Bowl special, bra's half off... I could go on and on... but I won't.
"This is you left and that's your left. This is your right and that's your right. You're gonna die!
Exactly what kind of "illegal content" is your TiVo going to be playing? Only that which is broadcasted/streamed to your unit from giant media conglomerates.
... in a few years, when virtually every household has some kind of PVR device, you'll be able to drop the "to some degree."
... remove the preventative measures and the question doesn't become "will X happen" as much as "when will X happen? This year, this decade, or in fifty years." If the abuse of power is possible and, through the erosion of privacy and civil liberties, in some way facilitated, the only certainty history provide us is that said abuse most certainly will happen, likely much sooner than anyone expects.
The public service announcement some courageous, publicly minded techie slipped into the broadcast stream exposing [insert favorite president here]'s criminal participation in [insert favorite crime here], against the wishes of both his conglomerate's bosses and the ruling party.
Depending on how compelling the material, the Feds might want to know everyone who saw it, so as to begin their search for future revolutionaries and resistence leaders among a smaller subset of the general population. TiVo gives them this power to some degree already
Seam farfetched? Then you haven't spent the last 3+ years living in the same America I have, where things that three years ago would have argued for a tinfoil hat have become mainstream headlines (with nary a voice raised in protest).
While we may not have slipped that far yet (I stress *may*, as CBS's refusal to run pro-democratic ads during the Superbowl while running pro-Republican ads tells a very different story IMHO), we are most certainly well on our way.
Privacy is important as much for what it can prevent as anything else
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
nt
I, for one, welcome our new TiVo overlords...
Incidentally, the (correct) quote, from the Congressional Record, is:
When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody left to be concerned.
-h-
Man, you have no idea how bad a thing this is.
I never watch the super bowl. Not usually. I'm not used to it. I dn't know why, but I don't quit like it. I like the game but I'm awlays too tired to watch it. -Oliver
HTTP://WWW.HOT.EE/EXTIME Offical website of Ownmade games.
Her lovers must have high dental bills.
use the grab a spare pc, install your favorite flavor of linux, install mythtv app, and build your own.
then no one will track your data.
how silly is it that we buy a pc called tivo and pay them a ridiculous fee when all we really needed to do was learn how to program our vcrs?
Forget about Janet, what's with that ad for DSL with the woman getting pregnant and popping out babies? That's just bizarre.
American men who watch football like women's breasts.
Especially when we've^M^M^M^M they've been drinking.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
As I've proposed in a couple other /. posts, I don't know if them selling our viewing habits is a good thing or not. Think about it, they know we are using TiVo to watch our shows... that means they also know we timeshift and have the ability to skip commercials. With the keylogging, they KNOW when we skip commercials.
Shows make money by selling commercials. The price is dependent on ratings. If an ad company knows a certain percentage of that rating is using a TiVo and is skipping commercials, the price would go down for a spot. Once ad companies know a show is highly watched on TiVo and the commercials highly skipped, why would they pay to support that show?
This either leads to advertisers pulling out (cancelling the show) or them selling alternate forms of ads, like those little bits that are on the lower corner of the screen. Fox has that big sweaty boyfriend bouncing up and down in the corner with the face of a scared mom next to him.
Now, maybe you'd prefer that along with a full 30 minutes of content (I'm undecided at the moment), but I'm just pointing out that this may or may not lead to a show getting more funding.
IANAL, but I play one on
Tivo can tell what you're doing because it has a data link, normally modem.
Your cable company normally doesn't have an upstream data link - it's broadcast-only. They could build a cable modem into your set-top box, but that would cost money, so it's unlikely to happen unless they're selling the thing as a bundled offer.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I activated my ReplayTV's "Content Skip" feature, so the machine automatically skipped all the dull football content and played only the adverts.
I hope somebody tracked that.
Da Blog
Goldenpalace.com was written on his back. It's not the first time they've employed a streaker.
<span style="voice-type: officer-barbrady">
Move along, people...nothing to see here.
</span>
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Dish PVR:
Click search. Look for Red Dwarf. Hit record.
Next time you are watching Dwarf, Hit search again for new episodes. You wont even have to type anything in this time since it can automatically search for what you are watching. Hit record again. Repeat every so often. Hmm.. My VCR can't do that. And how is that so complicated?
But new software updates seem to come pretty often from DISH. My original receiver received three firmware facelifts during the time I owned it (about 2.5 years). I'll take the privacy and not having to pay extra for Tivo when I know more tivo-like features will be implemented the next time they send a firmware update over the satellite.
One interesting fact is they're only using 20,000 samples for the superbowl instead of their whole customer base. Last I heard Nielsen only had 20-35k boxes out there doing sampling, and poor sampling at that.
If TiVo knows how, they can beat Nielsen to death with their data. The only problem right now is TiVo users are more likely to be in upper income segments, which skews the data.
For Michael Jacksons boobs I refer to this page
g
http://www.1funny.com/images/michaelsboobjob.jp
also see The Drudge Report for stills.
cpeterso
I just keep my Tivo unplugged from the phone line. Tivo can only transfer the data if you plug it in (to either the phone or the internet.)
Admittedly, my Tivo has been complaining forever that it needs to make a call - but that doesn't seem to affect anything. (They claim it needs to make a call to "get the latest updates and channel information" - but so far it hasn't been necessary)
Time to pander to the lowest common demonator....
There is an uncensored picture of the tit in question from more than one angle on the StupidNakedPeople.com site. For those people who weren't watching the half time show (or who blinked without a Tivo), they also have an uncensored 3 second clip with the halftime show "costume malfunction".
Anyway, evidently that thing is a sun-shaped nipple ring, not a pasty. Furthermore, even if it is a pasty, it clearly does not cover all of the areola, which is likely to violate most local blue laws.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
We know you replayed the Jackson Boob Scene 273 times, and we're telling your mom.
SmashTech - No smashing of tech involved
We know where those log files are kept, and we know how to delete them. Tivo is just linux and logfiles are easily zeroed out.
Now, maybe we could write something to generate large files full of garbage stats... yeah that could be funny.
Haha, I thought the same thing =) Too funny!
~Berj
"[Michaelangelo's David] shows part of the human body which, practical though they may be, are EVIL!"
Sorry for sounding a bit offtopic, but the people that are upset about this to get a life. In a country where it's okay to fry mentally ill people to death, let any eejit carry a gun, consume a huge proportion of the world's resources and invade a country for dubious reasons, exposing a bit of human flesh is greeted with the sort of outrage that you'd think would be reserved for the end of the world.Drill baby drill - on Mars
In Soviet Russia, Janet Jackson's boobs watch you!
I've seem them sponsor boxers before. It's some smart shit. Why pay 2 million for a forgettable 30 seconds when you can get more attention with 50 grand. One of the first boxers to do it was a 3 to 1 underdog. He took the $100k Golden Palace paid him to do it, bet it on himself through them and won $300k. Sweet move.
-B
TiVo can't do that -- it doesn't have access to that information. Even if the signal went through your TiVo it would only have bits -- it wouldn't know the title, or any other incriminating info. If you have to worry about any media device sending info beyond keystrokes it would be your PC, especially if you're running commercial software on MS Windows.
Btw, "your're"? It's bad enough that you use the wrong "there" homonym for "they're broadcasting illegal information". But "your're" instead of "your"? C'mon!!! At least try!
The cable company can detect what channels you're watching and when just as easily as TiVo. Except they aren't telling you what information they are collecting and they haven't promised not to make personally identifying information available.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
I'm tired of hearing from companies that "the data are only being analyzed in aggregate". It would be a one-line code change to also include a personal ID with the viewing patterns. The problem is that they built the system that would so effectively violate privacy in the first place.
Over all the years that PVR's will continue to exist, it is inevitible that some PVR company will be strapped for cash and decide to start selling individual profiles to marketers.
Janet Jackson's tit was the most re-visited section of the entire game. Heh. :P
Somehow I don't think we have a whole heck of a lot to worry about.
I'm more interested in knowing how many people went to that car commercial's site. It must have been an effective ad, seeing that I remember nothing more than the fact that it was a site about a car. Well, whatever.
I cancelled my subscription to Tivo a year and a half ago. I did this not because I was afraid someone was monitoring my usage, I like the idea that I can vote for my favorite shows by just watching them, but because they are using the information my Tivo provides to make more money and are still charging me a fee. Either get rid of the fee or stop using the data.
======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
There's a company out there that logs every phone call you make from your phone. Not only that, based on how long you stay on the line ... they charge you for it! And if you switch over to call waiting ... guess what else they do? They charge you twice. At the end of every month they generate HUGE LISTS of this information and affix bulk postage placing it inside a sealed container and have the nerve to flaunt this tracking capability via your mail. They even demand protection money ... otherwise you'll be without your phone service.
Come on. TiVo's always been up front about their usage-tracking. It's TV. I don't give a shit if somebody knows what I watch. Bring a couple beers, and come share my couch if you want.
I notices a few of these on the community channels. They're not illegal, but if they want to go after all potential terrorists.
Investor's Business Daily (body-cavity search required) said on Jan 15, 2004 that "... Nielsen has been tracking TiVo use since August 2002, but it hasn't released any findings publicly."
USAToday is featuring TiVo popularity information in their television listings: "On Wednesday January 28 USA TODAY unveils an enhanced package of television ratings coverage in the LIFE section, including a monthly listing of the Top 10 most rated programs based on an analysis of anonymous, aggregate data from 20,000 TiVo households."
And you can read more about Nielsen partnering with TiVo from a while back.
TiVo reporting aggregate TV viewing habits is no different from cable companies being able to tell what channels you're choosing to watch on your digital cable box, from websites gathering referrer and browser information from visitors, or movie studios talking about what the largest grossing movies were over the weekend.
I welcome TiVo's use of aggregate (*not personalized*) gathering of data for reporting to the networks. With luck, this could result in the networks deciding to keep certain shows that have high record/replay/time-shift value instead of cancelling them because nobody wants to watch those shows exactly when the networks choose to air them. If my TiVo usage can help dictate the types of shows that the networks will (or won't) air, then this is a win for all of us.
Loss of Privacy: Bad
Non Nielson Family Gets Counted: Good
I kind of like the idea that what little TV a watch get counted and aggregated. Since you can't effectively vote for your programming preferences with your $$$, I like the idea of voting with my viewing habbits.
SPAM
Put on the tin foil hats? Or just another way for them to keep your monthly fee down (snicker)
The submitter seems to imply that TiVo is a gluttonous corporation trying to gouge its users.
TiVo Financial Data
Notice that TiVo has not made money, and will not in the near future. They're in a cut-throat business against vicious competition. Recent possible policy changes notwithstanding, they've also used free software, distributed the changes under the GPL in a forthright manner, and tolerated hacking their hardware. All very good things.
I've had my TiVo now since Nov or Dec of '99, when I paid a $199 'lifetime' subscription fee. By my calculations, that means I'm at $4/mo for the fee, and still falling. Doesn't seem too bad, especially given that it calls a toll-free number.
TiVo's online FAQ explaining how to get them to stop collecting anonymous information from your TiVo.
TiVo's complete privacy policy
Yes, if you own TiVo and you don't like the idea of them collecting information about you, even anonymously, give them a call and let them know and they'll stop. No big deal. Of course, /. being a geek haven, I'm sure more than one person has hooked TiVo up to their home LAN and they monitor the network traffic to TiVo, so you can both see what they're already sending and what they send after you make the call.
I personally don't have a problem with this because of the manner in which they collect the information and what they're likely to do with that information. I guess if you're super-paranoid, you could reason that Scott Richter might buy out TiVo and start using all of the non-anon'd data (if they even keep it, which is probably spelled out in their privacy policy, which I'm too lazy to read). But, just for comparison...
Did you know that every time you use your credit card, the credit card company tracks your shopping habits? This wouldn't be so bad, but then they boast about the degree to which they're collecting information about you by sending out an itemized list of the things you bought every month, right to your door! The nerve!
If only these companies would take the hint from TiVo and let us simply place a call, and they'd stop registering that sort of data. That would be great, wouldn't it?
sev
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
this article had nothing to do with prudish america. this is completely offtopic and you just used it as a pulpit for your little rant.
this should be modded right down.
Shut the fuck up and welcome to reality. Get a proper browser that doesn't let sites do stuff like that instead about whining about what everyone already knows; people are idiots and can't design web pages.
February 1, 2005- Astonishing privacy concerns surfaced today as it was shockingly discovered that TiVo uses aggregate data to anonymously track the viewing habits of it's users!
During the expanded 90 minute half-time show the most replayed moment happened when a dog jumped, missed a frisbee and collided with a member of the "Up with People!" organization. The dog was immediately put down.
This of course was quite a contrast with last years most replayed moment which involved Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake. Shortly after the 2004 Superbowl, Jackson and Timberlake quit making horrible, horrible pop music and joined a monastery, never to be heard from again.
/I wish
There is a privacy issue, though not in a very direct way, nor at the level of the individual.
Consider "economies of scale". If aggregate data shows that a majority of viewers react in a particular way to particular stimuli, the privacy of the minority is at risk. For example, if viewers are willing to sit through certain commercials, or tend to flip to a particular kind of show during commercials in their primary choice of program, this data is useful. Such data can then be used by the networks to tailor programming to reflect the bland tastes of the majority.
Because of anonymous, aggregate data collection, the minority of users who do not fit the mainstream mold stand to lose the content they want to access. They're at risk of being effectively slashdotted on a cultural level, through the practice of aggregate usage statistics.
Now, is a DDOS attack a violation of privacy? Not in strict terms, but denial of service is a violation. TV viewing and the choice of programming one watches, are private, personal matters. By allowing mass actions to shape "the market" to the point where I can not choose how I want to spend my private time, my privacy is violated - if you squint just right.
Can you imagine TV composed of nothing but Reality TV and Law & Order reruns? Oh... Wait... Nevermind...
But, can you imagine every show frequently showing "accidental" boob flashes?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
When I read "invade a country for dubious reasons" my subconscious read "invade a country for Dubya's reasons"
Hmmm.
...term "working consumer" is a synonym to "slave".
There you are, staring at me again.
This is in the article, so it is only slightly off topic. Did anyone else catch the following paragraph:
One notable TiVo user apparently unimpressed with the performance of Timberlake and Jackson was FCC chairman Michael Powell, who launched an investigation into the bare-breasted matter. Powell is so taken with TiVo that he once referred to it as "God's machine."
Doesn't the US government have better things to do than launch an investigation of JJ's boob?
Ok, TIVO tracks their users. We knew this and I think it is a good thing. I do not mind the collection of anonymous stats. I do have a problem when it is linked to a person.
I think anonymous stats could help to free us, but I fear data being linked to small groups.
A good example of anonymous stats is when anthropologists ask about your drinking habits and then go to the local dump to confirm the results....that you drink a ton.
The trick is to keep it anonymous, but those types of stats can show law makers what their voters really care about...
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Anti-drug PSA'a are hardly "pro-Republican" and you know it. You're full of shit.
Get a decent browser, pal.
Well, if you've been accused of a crime, proving that you were at home watching legitimate content would get you off.
"So, as you can clearly see, my client was watching American Psycho and turning the voume down during the ads and turning it back up again when the movie came back on, the whole time the brutal axe murders that occured on the far side of town took place."
So maybe it wouldn't be the cops but your own lawyers who would subpeona the tivio logs.
The entire "sports copyright notice" required by the league is unneeded.... current copyright law doesn't even require "Copyright 2004" to be displayed. Everything gets full copyright protection the moment it is created by default, no action is needed.
This part I have no problem with. What I have a problem with is the fact that they not only claim copyright to the telecast, but that even "accounts of the game" are prohibited.
I guess if I watched the game on TV, they could hold me liable for copyright infringement (my account is a derived work of their telecast?).
But what if I'm at the game? Can I go home and give an account of the game without getting attacked by legions of rabid lawyers?
and... Chirac is an asshole... ha ha ha ha ha.. ... why aren you laughing??
wait, isnt my 12-year old joke funny either???
booo hooo hoo.
Glad I saw this, I did not know Tivo tracks such data. The reasons do not matter but I do not want anyone snooping on me like that.
So they lost two future customers there.
Why two? Well me and my father.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
And the award for Most Boob Views goes to Tivo customer Peter Puffer of Topeka, KS.
Congratulations, sir! You'll be getting a new remote to replace your worn out unit free in the mail!
The vast majority of the criticism has not been of the "Think of the children" hysterical condemnation school, but more a sense of outrage that this what is considered entertaining (bad dancing, crappy music, insincere patriotic posturing, crotch grabbing, fake astonishment, and showing a tit). The sheer lack of spontenaity, the absolute absense of anything remotely resembling talent, the dearth of inspired performance plus the Janet Jackson tit exposure left many feeling rather insulted, that the show was conceived by either an inexpirienced and purile mind or by a has been who is desperate to regain the spotlight.
Think back to the rather sterile, emotionless and absolutely unerotic kisses exchanged betwteen Madonna and Britney/Christina. Same crap, nothing spontaneous, nothing titilating, nothing exciting in the least. Simply juvenalia at its absolute, unentertaining worst.
As to why this devolution into the mindnumbingly boring realm of poor imitations of a seventh grade boy's psyche, perhaps it is evidence that the entertainment industry knows they are obsolete, they are desperate to retain the spotlight, and uncertain of when the public will realize that this dinosaur has no more new tricks to perform, and their hired talent no longer has anything with which to keep our attention. If they can't have our devotion, it seems they'll settle for dissatisfied scorn.
Read, L
That would be Pennsylvania.
You don't want any kids reading /. to fail their history exams, do ya?
Maybe you should try upgrading your browser?
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
I want this data collected. I want TiVo to actually figure out just because I record Cartoon Network for Aqua Teen Hunger Squad does not mean I want to record Kim Possible.
It's pretty rare that TiVo has really figured out shows I like, and I know there are geeks out there with TiVo with similar tastes to mine. I want TiVo to tell advertisers: don't bother this one with feminine products, show him ads that are funny.
I want this data collected. I want to be a number in the database. Sell all that info, but then use it to tailor my entertainment experience to me.
And I DEFINTATELY want TiVo to tell advertisers: He replayed this ad twice--during Farscape. He replayed this ad during Keen Eddie. He watched these ads during Firefly. So the advertisers can say to TV execs: we want the head of the asses who canceled these programs. We lost Jeff TP and his gratuitous disposable income because you're a stupid moron.
Once properly hacked you can telnet to your TiVo and purge the keystroke logs! (in /var/log, where else!?) Not to mention the other nifty capabilities, like web-based control and Video Extraction...
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
You're right, Satellite can't track viewing habits. It won't work unless you plug it into a phone line, and the phone line is only used to order pay-per-view movies, respond to interactive polls/ads, etc.
However,
I'm not sure about Dish network, but my DirecTV box has a list of recommended programs for me, by tracking what I watch by genre. It's nothing to be worried about, but if you're a tinfoil-hat kinda person, you should disable it, or clear it's list.
So what's the big deal if they don't track the data to the individuals? It may mean that we start seeing more of what we like and less of what we don't like.
Now, if only we could pay the "unregulated" cable companies for just the channels we want and not all those that we don't, I'd be REALLY happy.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
not so much the fact they can track you, what do you think cable boxes and satellite boxes do?
all marketing, and unlike the net, marketing with television is what makes it go round.
but the fact is taht you DONT KNOW if tivo's sending "anonymous" information, for all you know, they could be sending info with your name tagged on like a status report, and you dont know if they're rubbing elbows with homeland security to "watch for terroristic activities"
like say, someone happens to get al jezeera on their satellite, and skips over it, or looks at it for half a second while couch surfing on a boring afternon, and that information gets sent (this doesnt just apply to tivo btw) with your name on it, what's stopping the fbi or cia into thinking you're a terrorist? bam wham, you're in syria getting brutally tortured.
I dont mind if companies like tivo gather data, my problem is on how honest they're being about gathering it.
If you participate in the modern economy at all (ie, job, credit, house, etc) you are so tracked, ordered, slotted, demographically aligned, etc, it doesn't really matter. Whether Tivo knows I've got a Rocco Siffridi wishlist or whether I hit pause for 20 minutes while watching HBO softcore, I could care less.
The ONLY way you can remain "anonymous" in this world is to work for cash and squat in an old farmhouse someplace in North Dakota. Otherwise, it's impossible to be anonymous.
They can identify individual users without any difficulty, roommate worked at TiVo in Alviso. They also have special celebrity accounts -- with flags to identify them. They gave out tons of boxes to help promote them when they first started.
My DirecTivo tunes in channels I don't subscribe to all the time. For some strange reason, it doesn't know which channels I have, so when it sees that my favorite actor is on HBO or thinks I'd like some show there for other reasons, it will try to record it. It keeps trying for the full hour even though there is no signal there to record.
So. I wouldn't worry about it...
does it track Janet Jac ... err ... Linux?
Personally I'm outraged Janet had a piece of metal covering her nipple. That's complete bullshit.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Why stop w/ the commercials and boycott the whole supperbowl. I did, but then, I always do. But at least this year, I had a reason to tell people.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
One would suspect so, but DISH has remained silent in the storm. Anybody have DISH DVR that can comment on this?
Have a Day!
Firebird 0.7
It's not the browser, it's javascript
Tivo are collecting information to help them make their service better. It doesn't matter which way you look at it, whether you believe them straight off or think they are selling your information to Bill Gates so he can attack you with Windows XP CD's on your way to work.
If Tivo get ZERO feedback from users (privacy fanatics), they won't have a clue if their stuff is good or not. They NEED feedback. Seems tracking 20,000 over superbowl is a pretty good way of getting it. I mean if they really are recording all those button presses, they'll be able to tell if people are having problems with a particular function. Maybe they are hitting buttons waiting for a menu to update, and in the next iteration of Tivo - bang, no more slow menus...
Im convinced that the only reason "Friends" is still on the air is because it is run after the simpsons, and people are too stoned to change the channel.
I know that's how I started watching it.
Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Scripts & Plugins -> Allow scripts to:
From there you can check and uncheck anything you think it's annoying to have scripts do. One of the choice is [gasp] Move or resize existing windows.
HTH. HAND.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
It's interesting to see how many highly moderated posts are behind Tivo 100% as long as it remains anonymous. Personally, I'm OK with a company doing this as long as they're completely upfront about it (which Tivo is), although I'd be a little wary (again, that's just me).
However, this honestly seems to be one of those moments where Slashdot, as a community or group, becomes somewhat hypocritical. Note: individual posters agreeing with Tivo are not necessarily being hypocritical and this isn't me trying to lecture anyone who does support that company. Please allow me to explain why I think this.
Look at other cases where companies, or even governments, can or do collect anonymous information (or information that is then only handled in an aggregate way) and Slashdot usually cries out against them with the usual tinfoil hat jokes.
RFID tags is one such example. These are inherently benign and don't have much connection with an individual. Say you have a coat with an embedded with a chip which when read says, "CoatCo Coat, black, large" to the reading device. What if a reading device read that each time you walked into a store and that store then showed companies in an effort to get more direct marketing? It is essentially the same thing, as long as anonymity is kept.
"Ah ha!" some might say. "But hooking it up to video-cameras and receipts with my credit card, they can identify me readily." This is all quite true, but you could say the same with Tivo; they could correlate your credit card number, address and telephone number if they wanted to. Obviously, many people would not agree to such an invasion of privacy and Tivo probably would not succeed in doing so, nor am I trying to suggest that Tivo is just waiting for the right moment.
Now, RFID tags are not exactly the same as Tivo watching television habits. One big one is that you choose to watch Tivo, but you may not necessarily be knowingly choosing to have a RFID tag in your merchandise. But I think the comparison is still valid. Too, I find Tivo recording my information somewhat more disturbing than someplace finding out I prefer some type of jacket; in the store I'm in a public place and therefore have a lower expectation of privacy (people can see and recognize my jacket with their eyes), while at home it's somewhat unnerving.
Just to reiterate, Tivo is not "wrong" or "right" in this case. This is a personal issue between customers and a company. I just wanted to point out that perhaps Slashdot as a whole is giving Tivo a little bit of an easy ride. Then again, perhaps they've earned it for seeming (I don't own one) to respond so well to their customers.
TSage
"I activated my ReplayTV's "Content Skip" feature, so the machine automatically skipped all the dull football content and played only the adverts."
Wow. ReplayTV. The George Plimpton of PVRs. Someone actually still uses one of them? Would you be interested in buying my used Intellivision? Both products have had a similar history, bankrupting two companies on their own. Hmmm...
I'm pulling this from memory so some small detail may be incorrect, but the gist is correct.
Tivo sends an anonymous aggregated file of all the interesting things you've done, and then sends a separate log file containing identifiable information. The anonymous data is sliced, diced and julienne fried.
Now whats the hole in this? Come on...must be a smart person out there...
DING DING DING...we have a winner
All tivo needs to do is match up the date/time stamps on the "anonymous" and "identifiable" files and your anonymous data is no longer anonymous.
Tin hats? How about your viewing habits being added to your reading habits by the feds? How about having your "I was home watching tv" alibi checked against your tivo viewer history? And much much more.
They could have done a better job of making it more anonymous.
Also, for all the folks saying they want the network execs to have this data. Right. The guys who kill anything that isnt a brainless cop or lawyer show will be moved by your tivo behavior.
And the tivo apologists that want them to "make more money and be successful"? How about they drop off from the payroll a bunch of the hollywood butt kissers and useless marketing people? I mean, they dont do software updates for older tivos anymore, the new ones have only gotten features to look at digital photos and mp3's on your tivo (the most useless feature on earth for 95% of the users, but looks GREAT on a press release), and their customer support is lousy. How many people do they REALLY need to run this company at this point? 10? 15?
^M is a carriage return--^H is the backspace.
It wouldn't surprise me if TiVo weren't already supplying a feed to a central U.S. database.
People really are missing the true beauty of this.
(Tinfoil hats aside, of course...)
It's NOT about what SHOWS you watch. It's about HOW you watch them. I look foward to the day when cable/sat providers start gather/using up-to-the-second stats on peoples viewing habits.
Most of us have little problem sitting through a few commercials...but how many times have you seen one that just really puts you on edge to the point where you begin to surf? Deal is, if stations start seeing a significant portion (in comparison) of the audience changing channels every time they air an ad trying to convience us that smoking pot supports terrorism, the station will have incentive to make the ad go away.
Same thing goes true for shows. Much, MUCH better than test audiences. Take a show like Fear Factor...Let's say %10 more of the audience turns the channel every time they show the group eating things like a pile of ferret dung covered in rabbit cocks. That's a pretty good indicator that they need to retool. An annoying actor ruining an otherwise good show? People changing the channel/fast fowarding every time they show up and then watching normally again when they are gone would be a pretty good way them to find out.
A boob is a boob
From tube to tube
And no one watches a boob tube boob
Unless the boob that's on the tube
is the naked Janet J's.
Flacks go yackety-yak and squeak
and they'll deny all day
But the FCC will never speak
Unless they have something to say
Just install the TiVo Web Project and use http gets to interact.
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
Hmmm, might this just help to explain "What's the Point of Building a Home Theater PC?" (previous /. story)
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
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TiVo receivers are used for entertainment - something people should be able to live without. When companies tag important items - places you need to go, foods you need to eat - that can give them the knowledge to create an artificial scarcity or otherwise be covertly prejudicial against a small class.
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You can firewall a TiVo off and check/verify/alter what it's sending. Not easy to do elsewhere.
These are off the top of my head, there are perhaps more.Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
someone who knew a reasonably obscure dire straits song (not money for nothing and not sultans of swing) should of at least corrected the spelling of the band name, which is not different from the actual term meaning: in severe distress.
Not all of us have TiVo, you insensitive clods!
When I turned my Tivo on for the very first time, it asked me very clearly if I would mind them recording anonymous usage data. I said 'Yeah, why the hell not', but anyone has the option to decline.
There are whole new marketing niches to be exploited here, folks. When I use my Tivo to FF through the commercials some catch my eye and I stop the Tivo to see what that the commercial was about. That gives the advertisers a viewer they drool over - one who chose to watch the commercial and is paying attention to it. Which commercials attract viewers to drop out of FF would be extremely valuable for Tivo to capture. The new niche? Designing commercial graphics so they grab the Tivo viewer's attention in FF.
To be really Machiavellian about it, advertisers could develop three levels to every commercial - the usual normal-speed commercial message, the graphics to entice viewers out of FF, and the Tivo FF subliminal "buy-me" message.
If you're reading this, Tivo, this is my idea and I expect royalties if you go for it.
On the other hand there is one commercial that even on the Tivo makes me close my eyes and wait the 4 seconds it takes to FF - the hair removal tool commercial that shows extreme close-up of thigh, back and neck hair being removed. Makes me really glad Tivo can't display in HD yet.
Listen to it here.
Hilarious. Definitely not bad since it seems that he made it quickly (the Request-A-Song.com guy).
Felix
...as Asterix the Gaul might have said :-)
"the Super Bowl is a Family Event"
hehhehe classic case of USians and Europeans with different perspectives here. USians seem to get very uptight about naked bodies and are very relaxed abut violence (teaching kids to shoot guns, rating films with extreme violence suitable for 12 year olds...). On the other hands most Europeans aren't too bothered about nudity, you'll see fashion magazines and billboards showing breasts in Europe, no big deal, but we think exposing kids to violence is not such a good idea - witness the shootings in a primary school in Scotland a couple of years ago, the outcome was to ban all hand guns of the type used in the country, including stopping the UK Olympic team practice in those events.
Any ideas why there's such a divulgence of opinion? I'm really interested! on most issues Europeans and USians are very similar in outlook, we have similar cultural identities, histories, why should the issues of violence and nudity provoke such different reactions?
The news over here has covered Janet Jackson showing her breast for two seconds, general opinion is "aren't the USians crazy - here's an entertainer who's done something a little bit naughty because it will get her lots of news coverage, and the US media is reacting like the world's about to end- what's all the fuss about?"
Any thoughts on why the attitudes differ so much?
Exactly what kind of "illegal content" is your TiVo going to be playing? Only that which is broadcasted/streamed to your unit from giant media conglomerates.
... in a few years, when virtually every household has some kind of PVR device, you'll be able to drop the "to some degree."
... remove the preventative measures and the question doesn't become "will X happen" as much as "when will X happen? This year, this decade, or in fifty years." If the abuse of power is possible and, through the erosion of privacy and civil liberties, in some way facilitated, the only certainty history provide us is that said abuse most certainly will happen, likely much sooner than anyone expects.
The public service announcement some courageous, publicly minded techie slipped into the broadcast stream exposing [insert favorite president here]'s criminal participation in [insert favorite crime here], against the wishes of both his conglomerate's bosses and the ruling party.
Depending on how compelling the material, the Feds might want to know everyone who saw it, so as to begin their search for future revolutionaries and resistence leaders among a smaller subset of the general population. TiVo gives them this power to some degree already
Seam farfetched? Then you haven't spent the last 3+ years living in the same America I have, where things that three years ago would have argued for a tinfoil hat have become mainstream headlines (with nary a voice raised in protest).
While we may not have slipped that far yet (I stress *may*, as CBS's refusal to run pro-democratic ads during the Superbowl while running pro-Republican ads tells a very different story IMHO), we are most certainly well on our way.
Privacy is important as much for what it can prevent as anything else
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Your rant here verges on paranoid schizophrenic babble. Under no circumstances would it be cost-effective to go out and round up everyone who tuned-in to a particular piece of content. No authoritarian dictatorship would even try something like that. There's no need to. Damage control and spin works just fine.
... minority support seems to be sufficient if it is widespread enough).
You assume (erroneously) that (a) surveillance is a binary option. It isn't. As Echelon and other data collection/correlation systems demonstrate, there are multiple levels of surveillance starting from casual data collection (which already affects most if not all of us), through detailed data collection and archiving, through ongoing data analysis (generally reserved for specific suspects). Then of course there is physical surveillance, which again ranges from bugging a phone or residence and recording the data for later analysis through realtime shadowing 24/7. You also erroneously assume that (b) governments have no interest in individuals (the amount of money spent surveilling Martin Luthar King Jr. and Malcome X alone should divest you of such notions).
Allowing an authoritarian government to single out a smaller subset of a population to sample (based on anything, really, but in particular passive viewing habits normally thought to be private, such as "all those who watch [insert liberal program here]") allows them to escalate the surveillence level on that particular group more rapidly and at much lower cost. Given a solid political motive for doing so, the liklihood of such serveillence goes up, as does the instrusiveness.
Spin and damange control work just fine for the majority. But it is not the majority the feds are generally concerned about, it is that small, disgruntled minority who will make trouble and potentially, in the case of an authoritarian situation, foment a rebellion.
Every revolution in history has been organized and executed by a relatively small minority of the population. Sometimes the passive majority has supported the revolt, sometimes not (and there seems to historically be little correlation between majority support and success
It is these folks the feds would be most interested in identifying early and surveilling the most, and technologies that remove our privacy, such as cable TV and TiVo's data gathering, are excellent candidates for facilitating just that.
Which is fine if you never want a revolt. But I would be careful what you wish for there: as more than one founding father observed, sometimes revolt is the best thing for a society.
Of course, as dysfunctional as the American democracy is these days, we are very, very far from a situation that would call for a general uprising. However, current trends with respect to our civil liberties and rule of (constitutional) law being what they are, it is certainly no longer unthinkable to consider that we might, one day in the not so distant future, be there.
What I have described should be unthinkably crazy. However, the current political climate of detentions without cause, right to counsel, without trial, and in violation of the Geneva convention (often on the basis of religious or political affiliation) makes it clear that what was, four short years ago, unthinkable in this country has in fact already become our daily norm.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I think the real wardrobe malfunction is both cups didn't tear away as he yanked them off. Only one came off, thus the malfunction. 50% failure rate in the tearaway bustier.
For a more revealing and indepth analysis of the malfunction, including close up photos visit AHK Research Group
And I'm with the other guy who said he was deeply offended that she tore her top off AND was wearing a pasty! Pasty's are my ASS!
A leather S&M bra Jackson tried on for use in her Super Bowl show but returned to the store is now listed on eBay. It seems to be getting a lot of interest:
a te gory=29881&item=3384460127
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&c
Hey guys, I am using this model of visual attention distributed at http://iLab.usc.edu for a class paper. The program is designed to objectively simulate how your brain decides what will attract your eyes. Here is the result at http://www.geocities.com/nerd1876/janet.jpg -- not quite the first thing you would look at (the program checked first several other bright and flashing objects, shown by the yellow circles), but was still found very quickly by the software. Couldn't help staring at it, my brain did not give me a choice!