However, one can get into a PC system built out of brand name quality parts for under $500.
BULLSHIT.
Build me a system that will run XP Professional using brand name quality parts for under $500 and interact with the rest of the corporate universe in a meaningful fashion. That POS you're advertising on your home page doesn't count, either.
When we're buying 300 desktops for a department upgrade, we're not going with a single-source vendor: we're going with a big fucking multi-national corporation, because we're a big fucking multi-national corporation, and big fucking multi-national corporations tend to feel more comfortable when they deal with each other.
That *thing* on your home page running with Open Office as it's productivity app doesn't count either, because it's not a useful comparison for those of us who actually has to work in a corporate environment. I'm not talking about coding either: my IDE is a text editor, a couple of terminal windows and vi in a pinch, and I can do that on any box here in the building as long as I've got my faithful copy of putty.
Believe it or not, I actually have to interact with people who do things like send me documents with embedded OLE objects, Word docs with embedded tables, Excel worksheets with Pivot Charts and 90 MB behemoth PowerPoint presentations with embedded QuickTime Movies in them (forget about our Digital Asset Management system...), so we need at least a 2 ghz CPU, 512MB of RAM, and 20GB of storage. At this point we're at your $500 mark, when you factor in the fact that I need XP Pro, and a CAL or two to get it on my domain and using Outlook.
Do I want to have to do these things? Hell no. But that's why it's called work, and I can do it a hell of a lot faster on my Mac than you can on a *nix box: all of the guys I work with who are *nix heads end up at some point in a given work week having to (a) boot into Windows (b) use a second Windows machine or (c) ask me to do it for them: I never have to leave my Mac.
Try getting some two-digit IQ workerbee over in to jump through those hoops -- not going to happen. God forbid they call Tech Support. All of which shoots your ROI out the window.
Macs are cheaper and easier to support on the desktop. Period. Anyone who says differently is either a liar or incompetant. I did it for over a decade, before moving over to Software Development (also easier on the Mac, I've noticed, but that's purely anecdotal at this point.
If you want to start talking about Micro$oft alternatives in a corporate environment, this article is a good place to get the ball rolling: Ernie Ball dumps M$ Try doing it somewhere else though: this is the Apple channel: we have a working alternative already, thank you. We've had it for over a decade. It works great, and from the looks of it, only promises to get better.
In the meantime, could you see about a version of Evolution that is usable by abovementioned workerbees?
One problem that Apple still needs to resolve before they can really be a serious contender for enterprise-level use is the speed with which they service machines.
You've got to be kidding me.
I sent in my almost 3 year old G4 laptop (display went south) -- back in 3 days.
I sent in my friend's almost 3 year old G4 laptop (broken hinges) -- back in 2 days.
Co-worker calls to send in 2 day old top of the line laptop from one of the "major PC laptop manufacturers" you mentioned. After THREE WEEKS on the phone, finally gets a Tech Support person who doesn't tell him to "just buy another one".
Co-worker is Director of Database Engineering. We're a technology parter with the vendor in question or else I'd mention their name.
While this is purely anectdotal, it's merely the most recent of multiple anecdotes I've got of similar disparity in service between Apple and BOTH of the other vendors you mentioned.
Apple has a number of other hurtles they have to jump before they'll be serious competition. Service isn't traditionally one of them.
Is MAME production considered time-critical activity? I know for myself MAME use is considered time-wasting activity:-p
We do primarily J2EE work here. Everything that you mentioned runs just fine, thanks.
I've got Tomcat local , but I try and do as much work on the dev servers as possible. I can say that compile time on a rev. A G4 500 mhz laptop can be slow, but it hasn't bothered me yet.
And to beat of the Penguinista thing, I'm a sysadmin, who works in a Microsoft shop (and doesn't mind it much), hosts some websites I developed on FreeBSD, and has a Linux desktop.
Most of the Penguinistas I've worked with like the OS X boxen: they just can't figure out why we're willing to pay so much for them. Cheers.
hrmm... If he was your employee he'd be making coffee.
No offense, but it's those kind of statements that might keep people in the real world from hiring you.
All of the developers in the shop I work for bring in our own boxen to work: desktop *and* laptops. And switches. And KVMs. and whatever else we can fit into our cubes. We run the BSDs and OS X primarily, but we've got a few who prefer running Windows. Our corporate desktop is Win2K, but we're looking at Sun's Java Desktop with a fair amount of interest (if they'd just change the name...)
Our software wins awards and our online presence is pretty heavily trafficked, according to what I've read.
Fortunately, our network and system admins know what the hell they're doing and our VP came up from the sys admin side of things, so our network is a primary consideration rather than an afterthought.
Ultimately, if anyone really wants to do damage, if they're an employee, they've got physical access to the box.
Making absolute statements about writing people up indicates a binary thought process which reflects a lack of experience. My boss wants me to hit my deliverables, and wants them to work. He wouldn't care if I did it on a Commodore 64 and saved it to a cassette. People compromise network security, not boxen.
Mac clients for getting past gateways are generaly non-functional. I keep an XP box ruuning at home that I can RDC into and then remote into networks using the Windows clients.
Yeah, right.Have you tried using the OS X Citrix Client? How about a terminal window?
I have yet to have a problem getting past a gateway if the IT staff responsible for said gateway gives me the information necessary to get past it.
"It's a shame this is an article about using Macs in the Windows office, instead of a Linux one."
Which? An article about using Linux in a Windows office or OS X in a Linux office? Assuming you're not some mindless Penguinista out trolling the Apple channel, I'll bite. I've been playing around with Sun's Java Desktop (needs another name, please) which is basically SuSE with a no-brainer installer (for the NT admins). Looks OK. Hopefully we can lock it down so that the power lusers don't get too creative with it.
I've been using OS X in an almost exclusively Windows/*nix environment for the last 1.5 years. The only real issues I've had is with NT Admins putting underscores in server names (the Unix admins took caree of that...) and having to run the Java Citrix client for the first 6 months or so...
Other than that, it's been a breeze. Integration between Windows and *nix servers has been pretty seamless, thanks to SMB. I actually feel sorry for people still stuck on *Classic* versions of the Mac OS.
... his line of reasoning that it's all Microsoft's fault is pretty funny though...
On a more serious note, do you really think any of the potential mod developers are still going to want to develop for an "open" platform?
What about Steam? How *secure* is their secure content delivery now?
None of this is very encouraging for Valve. If I was a technology partner or a mod developer, I'd be rethinking the platform.
It's too bad -- I've been really looking forward to something new for a change from Valve: I was afraid we were going to see "Half Life: Marty the Vending Machine Game of the Year Gold" Edition.
Apple had a good business sense, but it's not exactly fair to consider those "Apple's achievements"
That's nice and all but you wouldn't be calling them anything if they hadn't been brought to market.
Apple brought them to market, just like a whole bunch of other technologies, unique hardware design, coherant and internally consistent user interface guidelines, etc. that have all been co-opted by the Wintel crowd purely on the basis of market share.
Or, in the case of many notebooks (Powerbooks included), 4200 RPM!
Previous versions. The current PowerBook line (12"-15"-17") are all available with 5400 RPM drives a a BTO (build to order) option.
One could probably reasonably infer that 5400 RPM drives are therefore commonly available for PeeCees as well.
No. This was disabled when they were selling them with 9 installed 2.5 years ago, which is part of the reason why I sold mine and bought a TiBook
Apple is doing what Apple does: they try and put a nice face on it, but they're all about maximizing shareholder return, just like any other publically traded corporation.
Steve Jobs is not your friend: just try walking up and saying hi to him next time he makes a public appearance.
It's not going to be easy to get people to sign up really, to admit that they were computer illeterate enough not to be able to tell the difference between a real system message and a web page and/or don't know how to disable pop up ads in mozilla. However, given the litigous nature of many people, I'm sure that there will be even some Mac users claiming that the Win32 GUI is close enough that they just didn't notice...
Slashdot Mirror
Some people consider Marcus Aurelius to be a "notable Roman philosopher".
What if he's being portentious?
I remember about a year ago watching a movie of a Longhorn prototype that showed something very similar to Fast User Switching.
I think the original link was from /. actually.
Maybe Steve reads /.
Has it occured to you that you could just go look up these questions yourself over at Apple?
Throw in a bit of back bacon, and you've got a deal...
You're right, I was being tremendously presumptuous that a Linux user would be trolling the Apple channel.
However, one can get into a PC system built out of brand name quality parts for under $500.
BULLSHIT.
Build me a system that will run XP Professional using brand name quality parts for under $500 and interact with the rest of the corporate universe in a meaningful fashion. That POS you're advertising on your home page doesn't count, either.
When we're buying 300 desktops for a department upgrade, we're not going with a single-source vendor: we're going with a big fucking multi-national corporation, because we're a big fucking multi-national corporation, and big fucking multi-national corporations tend to feel more comfortable when they deal with each other.
That *thing* on your home page running with Open Office as it's productivity app doesn't count either, because it's not a useful comparison for those of us who actually has to work in a corporate environment. I'm not talking about coding either: my IDE is a text editor, a couple of terminal windows and vi in a pinch, and I can do that on any box here in the building as long as I've got my faithful copy of putty.
Believe it or not, I actually have to interact with people who do things like send me documents with embedded OLE objects, Word docs with embedded tables, Excel worksheets with Pivot Charts and 90 MB behemoth PowerPoint presentations with embedded QuickTime Movies in them (forget about our Digital Asset Management system...), so we need at least a 2 ghz CPU, 512MB of RAM, and 20GB of storage. At this point we're at your $500 mark, when you factor in the fact that I need XP Pro, and a CAL or two to get it on my domain and using Outlook.
Do I want to have to do these things? Hell no. But that's why it's called work, and I can do it a hell of a lot faster on my Mac than you can on a *nix box: all of the guys I work with who are *nix heads end up at some point in a given work week having to (a) boot into Windows (b) use a second Windows machine or (c) ask me to do it for them: I never have to leave my Mac.
Try getting some two-digit IQ workerbee over in to jump through those hoops -- not going to happen. God forbid they call Tech Support. All of which shoots your ROI out the window.
Macs are cheaper and easier to support on the desktop. Period. Anyone who says differently is either a liar or incompetant. I did it for over a decade, before moving over to Software Development (also easier on the Mac, I've noticed, but that's purely anecdotal at this point.
If you want to start talking about Micro$oft alternatives in a corporate environment, this article is a good place to get the ball rolling: Ernie Ball dumps M$ Try doing it somewhere else though: this is the Apple channel: we have a working alternative already, thank you. We've had it for over a decade. It works great, and from the looks of it, only promises to get better.
In the meantime, could you see about a version of Evolution that is usable by abovementioned workerbees?
Thanks.
You've got to be kidding me.
I sent in my almost 3 year old G4 laptop (display went south) -- back in 3 days.
I sent in my friend's almost 3 year old G4 laptop (broken hinges) -- back in 2 days.
Co-worker calls to send in 2 day old top of the line laptop from one of the "major PC laptop manufacturers" you mentioned. After THREE WEEKS on the phone, finally gets a Tech Support person who doesn't tell him to "just buy another one".
Co-worker is Director of Database Engineering. We're a technology parter with the vendor in question or else I'd mention their name.
While this is purely anectdotal, it's merely the most recent of multiple anecdotes I've got of similar disparity in service between Apple and BOTH of the other vendors you mentioned.
Apple has a number of other hurtles they have to jump before they'll be serious competition. Service isn't traditionally one of them.
Is MAME production considered time-critical activity? I know for myself MAME use is considered time-wasting activity :-p
We do primarily J2EE work here. Everything that you mentioned runs just fine, thanks. I've got Tomcat local , but I try and do as much work on the dev servers as possible. I can say that compile time on a rev. A G4 500 mhz laptop can be slow, but it hasn't bothered me yet.
And a previously unstated one as well. For free you can download Yellow Dog Linux.
Most of the Penguinistas I've worked with like the OS X boxen: they just can't figure out why we're willing to pay so much for them. Cheers.
No offense, but it's those kind of statements that might keep people in the real world from hiring you.
All of the developers in the shop I work for bring in our own boxen to work: desktop *and* laptops. And switches. And KVMs. and whatever else we can fit into our cubes. We run the BSDs and OS X primarily, but we've got a few who prefer running Windows. Our corporate desktop is Win2K, but we're looking at Sun's Java Desktop with a fair amount of interest (if they'd just change the name...)
Our software wins awards and our online presence is pretty heavily trafficked, according to what I've read.
Fortunately, our network and system admins know what the hell they're doing and our VP came up from the sys admin side of things, so our network is a primary consideration rather than an afterthought.
Ultimately, if anyone really wants to do damage, if they're an employee, they've got physical access to the box.
Making absolute statements about writing people up indicates a binary thought process which reflects a lack of experience. My boss wants me to hit my deliverables, and wants them to work. He wouldn't care if I did it on a Commodore 64 and saved it to a cassette. People compromise network security, not boxen.
Yeah, right.Have you tried using the OS X Citrix Client? How about a terminal window?
I have yet to have a problem getting past a gateway if the IT staff responsible for said gateway gives me the information necessary to get past it.
Good try though.
Which? An article about using Linux in a Windows office or OS X in a Linux office? Assuming you're not some mindless Penguinista out trolling the Apple channel, I'll bite. I've been playing around with Sun's Java Desktop (needs another name, please) which is basically SuSE with a no-brainer installer (for the NT admins). Looks OK. Hopefully we can lock it down so that the power lusers don't get too creative with it.
I've been using OS X in an almost exclusively Windows/*nix environment for the last 1.5 years. The only real issues I've had is with NT Admins putting underscores in server names (the Unix admins took caree of that...) and having to run the Java Citrix client for the first 6 months or so...
Other than that, it's been a breeze. Integration between Windows and *nix servers has been pretty seamless, thanks to SMB. I actually feel sorry for people still stuck on *Classic* versions of the Mac OS.
Please stop encouraging FUD-boi penquinistas who can't RTFA in the first place.
Thanks.
Maybe this is a beta for their online voucher redemption program.
Seems more effective than Steam.
On a more serious note, do you really think any of the potential mod developers are still going to want to develop for an "open" platform?
What about Steam? How *secure* is their secure content delivery now?
None of this is very encouraging for Valve. If I was a technology partner or a mod developer, I'd be rethinking the platform.
It's too bad -- I've been really looking forward to something new for a change from Valve: I was afraid we were going to see "Half Life: Marty the Vending Machine Game of the Year Gold" Edition.
There's nothing even mildly funny about CVS.
Yep. I had some "UI modification utilities" running. My Dock went to Jeebus.
For those of you complaining about the Dock, try not having one for a day.
Fortunately I back up better than Sir-Mix-A-Lot's dancers.
1100 Pocket PCs would be a half-ton of crap, 1100 X-Boxes would be 2 tons of crap.
That's nice and all but you wouldn't be calling them anything if they hadn't been brought to market. Apple brought them to market, just like a whole bunch of other technologies, unique hardware design, coherant and internally consistent user interface guidelines, etc. that have all been co-opted by the Wintel crowd purely on the basis of market share.
Previous versions. The current PowerBook line (12"-15"-17") are all available with 5400 RPM drives a a BTO (build to order) option. One could probably reasonably infer that 5400 RPM drives are therefore commonly available for PeeCees as well.
Apple is doing what Apple does: they try and put a nice face on it, but they're all about maximizing shareholder return, just like any other publically traded corporation.
Steve Jobs is not your friend: just try walking up and saying hi to him next time he makes a public appearance.
Computer illeterate?!?!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !
Have them drop me a line if you need a reference.
You spelled litigious incorrectly as well.
Ponce.
That's only funny at Fark.
Actually, it's not funny there either.
You spoil it for the rest of us when you give it away so quickly.