Slashdot Mirror
Paying for Apple iTunes with PayPal
MrIcee writes "While cruising eBay today I noted that some clever individual has apparently stepped up to fill the void left by the fact that Apple's iTunes service does not accept PayPal. While insisting that buyers follow Apple's terms of service, is buying and reselling the gift certificate legal or not? If legal, it's an interesting and simple idea that could be applied to many areas." It is pretty neat, even if the $16 markup is a little ludicrous. It's like the old adage: a fool and his PayPal account are soon parted.
"It's like the old adage: a fool and his PayPal account are soon parted." Indeed.
At least until someone figures out how to sell it for $15 markup.
Then $14.
Then $13.
Then $12.
etc...
Until Apple decides to implement their own version...
So this is one of those ideas with it's own obsolescence!
GPL Deconstructed
Do they sell spell checkers there?
My other sig is extremely clever...
You're a dork. If you have a creek nearby, use that for electricity when it's overcast.
Duh.
Reload the link to eBay and look at the counter near the bottom of the auction listing. See the Slashdot effect in real time. Impressive.
tilTrue.info contechtext.info prettypowerful.info twitter.com/frets fb.com/prosody
Section 11.a:
Payment for Products. You agree to pay for all Products you purchase through the Service, and that Apple may charge your credit card for any Products purchased, and for any additional amounts (including any taxes and late fees, as applicable) as may be accrued by or in connection with your Account. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TIMELY PAYMENT OF ALL FEES AND FOR PROVIDING APPLE WITH A VALID CREDIT CARD FOR PAYMENT OF ALL FEES. All fees will be billed to the credit card you designate during the registration process. If you want to designate a different credit card or if there is a change in your credit card status, you must change your credit card information online at the Account Info section of the Service. (There may be a temporary disruption of your access to the Service until Apple can verify the validity of the new credit card information.)
So how would this work when buying initially through a gift certificate bought through a middleman? Would I, as the buyer, pay the middleman to pay my iTunes bill for me?
And act like the government and defile the waters of my sacred fish friends? No sir, I couldn't do that.
You don't need a credit card to sign up for paypal, that's the point.
Duh.
What else can I say ? If the option is available and if someone is willing to pay the exorbitant price markup, why not squeeze few pennies out of it ? Unless apple implements this payment method, the markup will be driven down but will exist in one form or another despite how small it ends up to be. Also for the initial paypal bashing post owner : not everyone's paypal experience is as bad as what you had to hate them that much. If you know what you are getting into and not trying to defraud the system, why worry ?
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
I agree. Especially since Paypal no longer allows adult content/service providers to use their services.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Is it really that hard to sign up for a credit card? I have the credit card companies absolutely throwing themselves at my *feet* trying to get me to sign up for more credit cards. And my credit rating is *bad*.
Of course someone's going to respond "oh but you shouldn't trust the credit card companies!" Okay, but if you don't trust the credit card companies, you CERTAINLY AS FUCK SHOULDN'T BE TRUSTING PAYPAL.
- super ugly ultraman
I have one of the debit cards, and I used it like a credit card all the time (it's where my personal allowance money from my bank account goes). It'll also use your checking account to pull funds from if you don't keep a balance in your paypal account.
Dont you ever get tired of posting? Or is this just another avenue to pimp out your website.
-- Dr. Kevorkian --
awfully familiar to that guy who tried to sell the song he bought from apple on ebay
he says its for people who dont have credit cards in his auction, but dont you need a credit card to use paypal?
I give it 48 hours before Apple shoves a C&D right up their ass.
"Just Because"
quis custodiet ipsos custodes - Juvenal
Kill yourself and feed your body to the fish you love.
Could you do that sir?
Great, another middleman between musicians and fans. Are we moving backwards through the internet??
Nifty idea, though the markup is ridiculous. But, it does represent YAWAM (Yet Another Way to Acquire Music) that is a lot easier than dealing with CD stores or even online CD sales.
Sure would be interesting to know how the economics of iTunes music distribution compare with retail CD distribution. More profitable for the label? Less?
Even if it is more, isn't there as risk to the label in that getting on iTunes may not require the backing of a big organization? That is, iTunes represents a much better prospect for the artist? Sure would be interesting to know what Jobs thinks of all this, let alone the accountants in the record industry.
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
I, for one, welcome our new PayPal-iTunes overlords.
I don't if your aware of this, but gift-certificates are prepayed. thats the point. you wouldnt have any iTunes bill to pay, cause you get 50$ then your done. I think your missing out on the concept here.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
You don't need a credit card to sign up for paypal, that's the point.
Duh.
But you need a checking account and what checking account nowadays does not offer a free VISA debt card?
Try googling "iTunes for Windows", first result: iTunes iSbogus about why iTunes is bad for musicians because it keeps the RIAA from crumbling (also because musicians get the same shitty cut that they get in bricks and mortar even though the bricks are gone).
I probably am missing something here, but please humor me: if I, the buyer, don't have an iTunes account through the gift certificate, then how do I download my purchased iTunes music?
Does it make any sense that this person lets you use a credit card on Ebay to pay for $50 gift certificate when the purpose of his $16 markup is to allow someone to pay when they don't have a credit card? I guess you'd have to be pretty stupid to fall for this one....
The story has been up 25 minutes, and there still has been no purchases. Still 250 available. Who's going to get First Purchase?
Ah-ha.
That answers my other question. I suppose this means that I shouldn't be buying that gift certificate if I don't already have an iTunes account?
I have to believe that anyone who's willing to pay for downloadable music are the type of people who have a credit card. Those without credit cards, students mainly, are still getting their music from Kazaa and the ilk.
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
Will this work internationally?
Can I buy thru these people to get music here in Canada?
I believe the point is that the iTunes Music Store requires that any credit card used have an address inside the United States.
Reselling gift certificates would then allow folks outside the U.S. to access the store as if they were in the U.S.
Except I think you have to have valid credit card information whether or not you use a gift certificate. I am not certain, though.
--plambert
Even though they say that it's US only. what's to prohibit
Canadians from using this to get around Apple's TOS?
I have nothing better to do when I'm at work / when my girlfriend is at work.
In order to sign up for an iTunes account to REDEEM any such certificate you MUST enter a valid credit card number. I know. I sent my sister a certificate so she could try out iTunes. She didn't want to use a credit card, but ended up being forced to just to redeem the certificate.
There IS a non-credit-card way get an iTunes account, but that's only as the recipient of an "allowance" which is then tied to someone elses credit card, the one giving the monthly allowance ($10 minimum each month).
Good luck redeeming the gift certificate if you buy it and don't have a credit card!
First, they have their own ATM Debit card backed by a Mastercard particpating bank.
Second, they have their own credit card.
They also had a "pay online with a virtual card" feature, but I can't find it.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Markup: $16 on $50 certificate
Hmm, I wonder if this is an intelligent decision.
Sounds like the ?? right before Profit! to me.
(In reality, they only accept PayPal, but they have icons for all the above. Misleading design.)
Found it! It's a Debit Bar feature. Log into your Paypal account, hit "Shops" at the bottom of the page, then "Shop Anywhere" and go from there.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Has anyone else noticed that this guy has had over 4 thousand hits as of now, and not even ONE purchase?
Why should you need this "service"? Paypal already offers a virtual debit card service (see here, requires paypal login) where their system will generate a mastercard number and expiration date which you can use to buy items against your paypal balance from any online store that takes credit cards...
the question is what checking account nowadays does not offer a free VISA debit (or debt as you put it, ironic. hahah) card from the USA, which is a requirement for purchasing music from itms at this time? pay pal card - usa based - you can use store.
There's only 5 digits on that counter. I wonder how many times that thing has rolled over since this story's posting :)
~~Dan
No man is an island, But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie them together, they make a pretty good raft.
Actually, you don't need a checking account, it's just recommended. And even then, you can authenticate with a normal deposit account.
Instead of using my Amex card, I can set up a PayPal account, give them access to my checking account, arrange for a third party to perform the transactions for me, then deplete my PayPal account. I mean, typing in 15 numbers and an expiration date is SOOOOO hard!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
It seems to me like apple would make a killing if they sold the certificates in their stores (at face value, of course!). It would make a great gift-item, and would be an impulse-buy for many (read: this is the kind of thing that mall-shoppers would buy)
Or would that violate the agreement between Apple (Computer) and Apple (Records)?
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
counter showed 87811, reloaded it after I did some channel surfing and it now shows 04811
Hey! I know this particular auction is only open to people in the US but how long will it take before someone starts selling gift certificates to non US residents?
The gift certificate section on the iTMS doesn't say that non US residents can't receive them.
The only people I can see wanting to do this are people who use their parents paypal account.
A friend of mine has a PP account and buys stuff on ebay all the time, but he has no credit card and his parents wont let him use theirs. Whenever he wants something on ebay, he pays his parents and they put the money in paypal.
shouldn't that be:
a fool and his PayPal funds are soon parted.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
or you could spend your $50 worth of cold hard cash on pepsi and get the tunes that way...
The iTunes Music Store is useful to US Citizens who want Music but don't want to be sued by the RIAA.
Since there isn't a single legal system, or Recording Industry Association that represents the rest of the world, every other country must be dealt with individually.
Countries that operate very much like the United States and have strong Recording Industry Associations provide good markets either for iTMS or iTMS clones. At the opposite extreme are countries which don't respect intellectual property at all. For these nations, the iTMS is relevant only as iCandy. In the middle are a lot of countries that lie somewhere between these two extremes. Just determining where along the line a given country sits is a substantial job. Crafting a solution that fits their particular climate is relatively easy once that is done.
here is my listing
When punk rock is outlawed, only outlaws will have punk rock.
Umm... you can't bid. It's set price only. You can click buy now...
So...does Apple charge sales tax when you buy the gift certificate? Or just when you buy the music...which is how my two $0.99 songs are $2.16 on the credit card.
Or maybe they do it on both....
-Barkeep, a draft of your most hazardous brew, for the world is slowly stepping into focus, and I don't like what I see.
5109 hits on the ebay page. I wonder what a counter on the slashdot main page would bring in.... lol.
Scott
Geez, you guys know that anytime an auction gets in the news, Mr. Kevin Pursglove (whatever his name) issues a cute little statement along the lines of "we are investigating the auction".
Then the next day, the auction is pulled for some obscure reason: "the seller created and posted the auction between 10pm and 11pm from a state that outlaws ferret hunting during summer months. Persuant to section 573, paragraph 43 of the eBay user agreement, which we just updated last night just for this guy, where it says we can pull an auction for any goddamn reason, we went ahead and pulled the auction, even though 60,000 others just like it are still up and running."
In other words, eBay pulls it at the drop of a hat.
I bet PayPal (owned by eBay) has some stuff buried in their terms that they can use also.
9 days 13 hours left, and not a single one has sold...
sig.
I've been using PayPal for around six months now with no problems whatsoever. I haven't had a need to contact their customer service (which I suppose you could take as a positive thing) so I can't comment on that.
That said, I use a separate checking account as my PayPal account. I see no reason to take a chance with my money.
So this is one of those ideas with it's own obsolescence!
When will people learn to use "its" and "it's" correctly? You might want to print out a copy of this cartoon for reference.
This guy has a nice idea but ebay is more for selling stuff like this rare abused fan
I know this is off topic but I really want to ask this to someone. Is there any method I can use to find out what songs Apple has on their sight? I would rather not have to download and install their software to simply find out.
Well, that's CERTAINLY a lot more convenient than having their parents type in those 15 digits to buy their kid a gift certificate!
NOT
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
+1 Insightful
(or it would have been if Slashdot hadn't become overrun by Apple fanboys who enjoy getting "jobbed" by Steven Jobs.)
I'd like to knee-cap the lot of 'em with a lead pipe.
I bet he hasn't actually bought the gift certificates from apple yet. The plan is buy from apple only if some one buys the certificate from him on ebay.
Guess the mammoth of eBay can't even withstand the slashdot effect.
By the way, how do you mod posts anyways?
Steve
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
But an iTunes Music Store customer also has to have an IPv4 address located in the United States in order to buy or even just to play purchased recordings. If DHCP gives you an IP outside known U.S. netblocks, it appears iTunes hides your purchased recordings.
Will I retire or break 10K?
YAWAM???
Be honest, that word is just YAAPOOYA
(Yet Another Acronym Pulled Out Of Your Ass)
~Z
Go to the 'my account' tab, select withdraw, and click on the 'shop online with a paypal virtual card' link. The number won't be tied to any website in particular, so you should be able to type it in through itunes and have it work.
www.lonseidman.com
I take it batterys are out of the question.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
here is a link to the auction
"Open the IPOD bay doors Steve"..... "I am sorry, I cannot do that Bill"
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Slashdot, formerly known as the place where Lin-sux users go, is now owned by Apple. Mac OS X, the G5, FUCKING WICKED baby! Nothing else compares, and Apple rules your fucking life. Deal with it!
...to fill the void inside your mom's lubricous vagina. I might fill up her ass later, if she begs me.
Now why don't I get an article posting?
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
Find the white elephant before midnight!
Fawcett's gill-eyed frost stalk, (Fawcetociconius novazealandiae ) is a recently extict member of the stork familly that lays eggs underwater. Females then pile dead fish atop the eggs, and the decay of these would warm the water, incubating the eggs. Even so, at lower than usual temperatures found in such a habitat, chicks would not be ready to hatch out until 9 months after laying. After hatching, chicks would swim up through the rotting fish carcasses, and kill their exhausted mother, whose body would provide both shetler and food in the hostile climate.
if you have a paypal account why not just use your free PayPal checkcard?
In order to CASH the gift certificate, you must have an iTunes account.
In order to have an iTunes account, you must have a valid credit card number on file with Apple.
If you have a credit card, why would you want to buy this gift certificate on ebay?
I've thought this about other posts but have always been able to stop myself from posting it...
This article is fucking stupid.
Sometimes the best article is no article.
11,000 hits over 3 hours, where part of those hits are people reloading to watch the counter.
This is what brings servers to their knees? WTF?
I can just see the eBay web architect in his design when choosing to have a counter on each listing saying:
"5 digits on the counter should be enough for any listing"
bwahahahaha
Bought 4 songs so far. Unfortunately Led Zeppelin and Metallica have none available. Guess I'll have to get those free.
Doesn't something like this enable people in canada/japana/europe/etc buy from the US iTMS?
Here is the direct link. Much faster to watch!
It's not showing up in preview for me, so here is the text: http://counters.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-counte r.cgi?df=2959568251&hidden=0&site=0&type=0&border= 1&style=default
It all goes downhill from first post
a free VISA debt[sic] card
Holy Freudiand slip, Batman!
If you're going to be elitist, it would help to be elite.
One of the largest obsticles to buying music online is using a credit card. There are still many who don't trust it. Granted, this isn't the crowd that itunes apeals to most (older folks who don't trust technology).
Still, I bet that there are MILLIONS of teens out there, all downloading online music - mostly hit singles, WITHOUT acess to a credit card. What apple needs to start doing is selling music cards, with set amounts of dollars on each (ala pay-as-you-go cell phones).
This would allow teens to buy music cards anywhere : I'm sure 7-11 would be up for carrying them simply because of the increased foot traffic in their stores. Also, Apple could even make "collectable" graphics on each (perhaps artists on iTunes). At least its something tangable...the kid with the most iTunes cards is the coolest in the class.
I'm guessing that i'll get a lot of responces saying "that's what the allowences are for". give me a break, I know that my parents wouldn't have given me a music allowence. There needs to be a better solution.
My solution is to use the Paypal debit card. It's linked to my Paypal account and acts as a Mastercard. I use it for all of my Apple iTunes store purchases. It works quite well....
Edmund White
http://flickr.com/ewwhite
Why can't you use a virtual credit card number? PayPal offers this service.
Quite silly.
Everyone keeps bringing this up.
You can't use PayPal's virtual card service without having another card
on file with them. Don;t know why, that's just how it is.
The idea with this paypal/itunes offer is that it's for people
that have a bank account, tied to paypal, but have no credit card.
not any more...
The previous poster was referring to the MasterCard business debit card that can be applied for and used against your standing e-cash balance- NOT the main discussion subject.
And yes, I have to wonder about the debit card issuance and it not being at least held to savings and loan rules and regs.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
did someone leave the fat guy in charge of articles tonight?
It appears someone else is selling gift certificates as well as music in general for people that cannot access the store. The auction is here
Good luck I guess.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
When you learn that language is fluid and adaptable, and that eventually through misuse the word its and it's will change ^^
GPL Deconstructed
As it is its hard to pay with a personal check anywhere anyway other than paying your bills, so whats the point??? Just go to your local used CD store and buy them there
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Had to kill the offer.
/. is impressive.
Too much trouble with non US buyers wanting to purchase. Don't want Apple to squish me.
Interesting experiment though...
Looks like I've kicked off a whole new iTMS/proxy industry on ebay.
By the time I turned it off, the page counter was at 14560.
The power of
> But you need a checking account
Actually, you need at least one of the following: checking, savings, credit card.
> what checking account nowadays does not offer a free VISA [debit] card?
Checking accounts for those under 18, for one. Some banks (Washington Mutual) will give you a checking account, but will not even give minors ATM cards of any kind, even without the V/MC logo. Others (HELLS^H^H^H^H^H Wells Fargo) will give you a (non-debit) ATM card with savings, but will not even let a minor be on a checking account, even with a parent.
The one reason why I'm glad I'm not under 18 anymore.
-
Is it really that hard to sign up for a credit card? I have the credit card companies absolutely throwing themselves at my *feet* trying to get me to sign up for more credit cards. And my credit rating is *bad*.
You're talking about those "You're Preapproved for the Bank Of CowboyNeal's Premium Gold-Pressed Latinum Visa Card!" letters you get all the time? Read the fine print, it'll say "subject to credit approval," blah blah blah. Basically all you're "pre-approved" for is filling out the application and making them check to see if they think you're qualifed for a card or not.Now granted, I've never understood how this is completely legal and not false advertising of a sort (remember that Publishers Clearing House had to change their ways after that huge lawsuit about their "You may already be a Winner" but the fine print says "Not yet, you gotta at least send this back, and while you don't have to buy anything, we want you to do something to the envelope to show if you did or not so we'll know how to..... umm, file it!"? Heck the credit card offers don't even come in saying MAY be approved, so they're worse. But that's starting to stray way off-tppic. :)
This time, it's "read the fucking auction."
Sales are to US customers only and you must comply with Apple's iTMS terms of service.
-
Will sell in increments of $50.00/month with a $15.00 charge for the first $50.00 and $7.00 for each increment of $50.00 after the initial increment.
Ouch. Can you say price gouging children? Good, I knew you could. Now let's return to the friendly folks in theWith sincere apologies to Mr. Rogers, please don't have God strike me down or anything. :)
I work for a bank, and I was surprised to learn when I started here that if your Beacon score (basically a hash of your credit report) is lower than some threshhold, you cannot get a debit card.
So, while every checking account offers a free Visa debit card, not every person qualifies.
I don't think it's setup correctly.
But maybe iTunes has remembered something many forget - PP is *not* a bank. Nor anything near it. It could close one day, taking any money left in the account, and you wouldn't be able to get it back. Just some more food for thought - I believe iTunes is right in only taking from established companies with proven resources behind it. PP has so many holes, I've discovered, between knowledge and rules, that you could drive a truck full of CDs through it.
"But I can't get an ocean that's deep enough for my day..." ~The Frames, "Fitzcarraldo"
does anyone know the on-line transaction fees for credit cards, debit cards and/or pay-pal? I thought pay-pal had the highest fees...
I said, n/m
We just went through this last night with my son. He's 15 and formerly went the Limewire route, we've been telling him that this was A Bad Idea, and that the proper thing to do is to pay for music. With the iTMS and his iPod, he has come to see that this is not only correct, but possible. Only problem is that he has no credit card, so he pays me cash, and I send him a gift certificate. No problems. I like this idea better than an allowance, that's just a mechanism to suck his wallet dry. This way, he has a fixed amount that he determines how much and how he wants to spend it.
I signed up for the PayPal Mastercard and I'm now paying for iTunes music with my PayPal account. What's so hard about that?
My 8 year old brother has a Visa Check Card through our credit union.
A lot of people seem to think Apple would look down on this practice? Why would they?
If the gift certificate fails to sell or the purchaser can't use it, Apple makes a pure profit off the transaction - they don't need to pay the record company for the sales and already made $20/$50/$100 from the gift certificate sale.
"Brown University? We have one of those in Providence!" -- Outside Providence
From the URL:
The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer available for sale.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Lot's o' banks don't offer free visa/mc debit cards - several still charge (and several charge for online banking, etc, which causes me to wonder why anyone would go there).
Anyway, I have a paypal account set up for my employer to pay for domain purchases and to sell old hardware on eBay. It'se set up with *only* a credit card. Sure, paypal asks for checking account info all the time, but the account works just as well with just a credit card. There's like a few thousand dollar spending limit (goes away after getting verified with a checking account), but that's generally not an issue.
This must be the RIAA's way to trying to make its normal markup on CDs since it's "losing" so much by selling albums for $9.99!
Thank God you all are not math majors or even business majors... Hopefully you're not working stiffs in those areas either.
....
One would deduce that the last post in this thread is the most correct, although you could expound upon that.
Gift Cert $50
Markup $15
cost of Cert $50
Pre-sale profit (Gross)= $15 per cert.
But there are additional costs of doing business that may NOT be accounted for:
DIRECT COGS (Cost of good sold)
Less ebay Listing Fee (variable) approx 4% listing fees
Less Paypal transaction fee 2.2-2.9%+ paypal fees
Less your cost of doing business (variable)
- electricity of the computer you use
- expense of equipment (scanner, computer, software...)
- ISP connection charge...
Less possible labor expenses (if you had to pay someone to do this)
INDIRECT COGS
Less lost opportunity cost (what you could have made doing something else)
and finally less your opportunity cost of Capital (what you could have made putting your $ in a bank/CD/money market, if your $ wasn't tied up waiting for an ebay bid to happen) calculating Weighted Cost of Capital and/or Opportunity cost
So perhaps the actual transaction resemble something like this on a monthly basis:
Gross Profit ($15 x 4 certs) = $60
Less direct costs of goods sold (guessing 10% of sales price $5 x 4 items) = $20
Less indirect cost of goods sold (guessing 5% of sales price $5 x 4 items) = $10
Leave you with roughly $30/ month in Earnings Before the real issues
Your Time... at $???
(What you should pay someone to do this crap)
Assumne what you will, but I wouldn't bother with anything less than $20 / hour and this will take someone at least 10 minutes to do manually.
Calculate that per hour, unless your Bill Gates who earns $4,000 per minute
Then you compare that to opportunity cost of capital and....
Geese.
No wonder why Apple hasn't tried this.
>
>Why Gen-Xers do it better
>Cheznathalie.com
>
Maybe you should consider switching banks. My bank, Citibank, has an awesome online banking system, and one of the features I like most is that even payees it doesn't have in its electronic payment system can be paid through the site, still for free, by check. When you set up the payee, you check and see if there's an electronic way of paying that company, and if not, you just put in the address and payee the bill would normally have, and it will say "Payment will be sent by check." Even cooler, you can even use this method to pay your friends or whatever. You can essentially lose your checkbook after you get started with this.
Fees: I'm a student, so I pay $3/month for the checking account, or free when I'm employed (direct deposit). The bill payment service comes free with it. For non-students, "Free if you meet the combined balance ($1500) or if a Direct Deposit is made (latter applies only to CA & NV). If not, $7.50 in NY, NJ & CT; $9.50 in all other states."
Full Disclosure: I don't work for Citibank, I just find that they are a bank which respects me and appears to value my business (unlike Wells Fargo).
I'm sure everyone who has a PayPal account, also has an ATM card. So why use PayPal???
-- "maybe happiness is a fragment of existence, but with better packaging"
Hah. Shitty Christian pop.
"A fool and his conspiracy theory are soon made fun of."
-Me
According to a Paypal rep, there have been 35,000,000 individuals who have used Paypal. There are just under 7000 people registered at the paypalsucks message board. That's about 1 in 5,000. To put that into perspective, according to this article , a Princeton survey found the odds of the Earth being hit with a city sized asteroid is also 1 in 5,000. The odds of having a bad Paypal experience are really pretty slim indeed. Don't believe the hype!
Take it from me, I know.
I never had a credit card till I was out of school and on my own...and by that point, it was apparently too late. I had to get a really crappy card with a low limit, high interest, and high yearly fee, keep it for a year, then get a real card. I basically had to pay for a credit rating -- if you don't have one, no one will give you a card except a clip joint like that one. I kicked myself for ignoring the "Hey! Sign up for a credit card!" tables outside the student store in college.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2959910038
Like anyone can even know that
They really shouldn't let Huffers moderate!
My other sig is extremely clever...
Why would anybody pay that much for paypal very crazy. Take alook at www.wiget.com its trying to offer a year worth of subscriptionwith fairy good music.
Streaming Direct
Here is a $200 Auction