sing the praises of Java, one of the most bloated languages around.
Not sure if maybe you meant the language itself is bloated(?) but the runtime comes in at around 15 and a half meg. The.NET Runtime comes in at about 23 and a half meg. The Powerbuilder libraries we must distribute are around 43 meg (uncompressed and just for 9.0 although we must put out 7.0 as well). ActivePython is 15 (Linux) to 18 (Windows) meg. ActivePerl is 15 Linux and 12.5 Windows. The Java runtime itself seems rather... average.
To clarify, it was the filesystem FAT, used since the DOS days right up to Windows ME and still often used on Windows machines today that they were suing over. Cameras weren't actually booting a decade old operating system.
I use synaptic... I install any piece of software I wish with about 3 mouse clicks. No CD insertion, no msi installers (what do you mean I need a newer version of the windows installer), no serials... software installation hasn't been a problem for years. It's all the weenies that had a bad experience with linux 5 years ago because they had to fight through compiling their own software that propogate this myth. You want really damn easy, check out Linspiers software installation mechanism.
+ hardware setup/modification with no command line
C'mon now... assuming it's supported hardware installation is often automatic. Usually you don't even need to download or install drivers. Granted, there is some specialized and modern (by modern I mean crap that the manufacturer keeps in a black box and hasn't been reverse engineered yet) hardware that takes some CLI finess--finess that is beyond your average PC user-- but most crap out there just works.
My advice is to try one of the modern distros designed to be easy. Mepis was suggested earlier and it is pretty great. And as more manufacturers figure out that this Linux thing is only going to get bigger I can't imagine device support getting anything but better in the future.
What we have here is just a ranting off on anecdotal evidence about how big-steel high priced UNIX vendors pushed each other out of the market and now that there is more than one linux vendor it's bound to happen here as well. The guy goes on to call linux vendors punks yelling at Mike Tyson (what the hell does that mean?) and making idiotic claims to defend Windows and MS like "Real Programmers Don't Care."
Guess what, 'real' programmers are exactly the ones who care... that's what the open source movement is all about. Any maybe, just maybe, the only reason big steel UNIX vendors went under is because MS undercut even the cheapest Unices both on the software and the hardware. Maybe they were all fighting about feature sets because they all developed vastly different versions of UNIX independently and honestly believed theirs was better than the others for any given purpose (and maybe they really, really were). And maybe that's why plenty of organizations and universities are still using UNIX decades after it's popularity began to wane.
I don't get it... looking at this dude's profile he's not a dumbass. He even works a bit with open source software. I don't know how he could post a thousand word rant claiming the Linux is going to die because UNIX did (?) without any evidence, proof, or even a theory; just childish flames and a loose correlation. It also seems like he doesn't 'get' open source with crap like the "real programmers don't care" and comparing differences in Linux distros to differences in UNIX distros.
Our MythTV server is hooked directly to the 55" Mitsubishi. There's an Xbox that roves to whichever tv requires it (usually the bedroom). There's a PC on the downstairs TV for Myth, Stepmania and unimportant stuff like CVS server, FTP server, bittorrent. Honestly, most of the TV is watched on the other general use PCs while one of us are checking our mail or goofing on the internet.
I'm experiencing quite the opposite, although I think IVTV are the ones to pat on the back. Since my last update/dist-upgrade which brough new versions of Myth and IVTV I've been solid as a rock. Previous versions didn't play well with the fairly new tuner on my PVR-250.
Explain how, then, in your world would users be so naturally encouraged to go out and buy a new computer with a new, more secure, pre-installed operating system every several years, hmmm?
I'm pretty sure I've never heard grandma say "Hey, I need a new machine so I can run XP SP2 instead of this silly Windows 2000 SP4."
Microsoft doesn't sell SP1 versions of WinXP anymore.
But the gazillion users that bought their machine with SP1 on it aren't going to run out and grab a SP2 CD when they have to reinstall their spyware laden purple Vaio.
but its beyond me how links to pictures of souped up computers on/. are the coolest thing ever
Case art is, well, an art. It may not be one that you are interested in (nor I) but at least these people are taking something bland and by their own design making it something cool looking. There's a bit of a difference between the hole-drilling dremmel-jockey case modders and the weenies that pay 50c over an SMS and think they're cool or different.
On a seperate note, I have the Super Mario theme as my ringtone... I'm a dork.
To clarify, if you only intend to distribute within the company you wrote the software for then the code only has to be distributed there as well, correct? You don't have to publicly distribute code to objects you didn't publicly distribute?
Someone cares. The same someone who's suing grandmas and 12 year olds. Just because any person with a decent grip on reality wouldn't care doesn't mean there aren't teams of lawyers salivating at the thought.
Regulation, through the FCC, is the reason why me, a 26 year old adult, am unable to hear the words "fuck," "shit," etc. on TV
You must've missed Richard Pryor on Comedy Central the other night... plenty of fucks and shits to get your jollys off though. Nudity is still a no-no though and with the religious right on the march I wouldn't hold your breath. Honestly, the regulations are easing as the will of the people is heard. They're a bit slow but this is one front where I'd say they're doing on 'ok' job.
Screw it... what am I saying. Fucks and shits are becoming legal 'cause it'll pull in 5% more views in the non-prime slots. If they all weren't so afraid nudity would backfire on them and their sponsers would sell 7 less widgets because of it they'd happily say 'screw the kids' and show all kinds of pierced saggy boobies. Damn execs.
Nothing like this happens with Fedora, it's a manual process and sometimes a pain in the ass.
That's practically true, but you *can* update the apt/yum repositories to point to the new release and dist-upgrade. I tried it once with mixed results, mixed enough I now just full reinstall on new releases however there are generally instructions on how to do just that successfully on the web. Question from someone who's Debian use has been quite limited, how does Debian deal with major kernel changes? The exec-shield, pre-linking stuff, and general 2.6 madness in FC2 really sent FC1 users for a loop and now the selinux stuff in 3 can be a headache for people expecting 2 behavior. It seems like some changes are so massive you wouldn't want a distro to try to figure out what you had done and try to make it work in a new and possibly incompatible environment.
I'm going to agree with you. FC1 was a little shakey, it was the initial release after all. FC2 was the low-point, if you ask me. And now FC3 is pretty decent. The SELinux/udev thing threw me for a loop initially but I'm really liking the new Fedora.
In all fairness, they pretty much do what you're asking. They claim to aim for a 6 month release schedule and the do offer updated packages when they're available. I wouldn't count on the version numbers thing going away as every distro tracks major releases some how: Fedora, Suse, Slackware, Mandrake use numbers. Debian, Gentoo, and other use names.
If you're really into the most up to date crap, look in to atrpms. You can update through yum or they have an apt for rpm as well. I'm sure their packages are less organized or stable than Debian stable but they're newer as well.
Slashdot Mirror
Watch it... I played guitar and now I'm married. Just saying, be careful :)
Have your machine intentionally be part of the "zombies", and you get all the goodies, and look like a victim at the same time.
Damn... you've just uncovered the one thing that could possibly draw Linux and MacOS users back to Windows.
sing the praises of Java, one of the most bloated languages around.
.NET Runtime comes in at about 23 and a half meg. The Powerbuilder libraries we must distribute are around 43 meg (uncompressed and just for 9.0 although we must put out 7.0 as well). ActivePython is 15 (Linux) to 18 (Windows) meg. ActivePerl is 15 Linux and 12.5 Windows. The Java runtime itself seems rather... average.
Not sure if maybe you meant the language itself is bloated(?) but the runtime comes in at around 15 and a half meg. The
Which GPL license violations are Apple and Microsoft alleged to be guilty of?
Well, that's easy:
Apple- None, they're good guys now
MS- All of them, they're the bad guys.
Please pay more attention.
I believe most of the readership is running Windows and it's been that way for quite some time now.
To clarify, it was the filesystem FAT, used since the DOS days right up to Windows ME and still often used on Windows machines today that they were suing over. Cameras weren't actually booting a decade old operating system.
+ universal software installer
I use synaptic... I install any piece of software I wish with about 3 mouse clicks. No CD insertion, no msi installers (what do you mean I need a newer version of the windows installer), no serials... software installation hasn't been a problem for years. It's all the weenies that had a bad experience with linux 5 years ago because they had to fight through compiling their own software that propogate this myth. You want really damn easy, check out Linspiers software installation mechanism.
+ hardware setup/modification with no command line
C'mon now... assuming it's supported hardware installation is often automatic. Usually you don't even need to download or install drivers. Granted, there is some specialized and modern (by modern I mean crap that the manufacturer keeps in a black box and hasn't been reverse engineered yet) hardware that takes some CLI finess--finess that is beyond your average PC user-- but most crap out there just works.
My advice is to try one of the modern distros designed to be easy. Mepis was suggested earlier and it is pretty great. And as more manufacturers figure out that this Linux thing is only going to get bigger I can't imagine device support getting anything but better in the future.
What we have here is just a ranting off on anecdotal evidence about how big-steel high priced UNIX vendors pushed each other out of the market and now that there is more than one linux vendor it's bound to happen here as well. The guy goes on to call linux vendors punks yelling at Mike Tyson (what the hell does that mean?) and making idiotic claims to defend Windows and MS like "Real Programmers Don't Care."
Guess what, 'real' programmers are exactly the ones who care... that's what the open source movement is all about. Any maybe, just maybe, the only reason big steel UNIX vendors went under is because MS undercut even the cheapest Unices both on the software and the hardware. Maybe they were all fighting about feature sets because they all developed vastly different versions of UNIX independently and honestly believed theirs was better than the others for any given purpose (and maybe they really, really were). And maybe that's why plenty of organizations and universities are still using UNIX decades after it's popularity began to wane.
I don't get it... looking at this dude's profile he's not a dumbass. He even works a bit with open source software. I don't know how he could post a thousand word rant claiming the Linux is going to die because UNIX did (?) without any evidence, proof, or even a theory; just childish flames and a loose correlation. It also seems like he doesn't 'get' open source with crap like the "real programmers don't care" and comparing differences in Linux distros to differences in UNIX distros.
Damn straight.
Our MythTV server is hooked directly to the 55" Mitsubishi. There's an Xbox that roves to whichever tv requires it (usually the bedroom). There's a PC on the downstairs TV for Myth, Stepmania and unimportant stuff like CVS server, FTP server, bittorrent. Honestly, most of the TV is watched on the other general use PCs while one of us are checking our mail or goofing on the internet.
I'm experiencing quite the opposite, although I think IVTV are the ones to pat on the back. Since my last update/dist-upgrade which brough new versions of Myth and IVTV I've been solid as a rock. Previous versions didn't play well with the fairly new tuner on my PVR-250.
vi? emacs? heck, I use pico. ... stupid 20 second wait... ...
Screw you and your closed-sourcedness! Nano for life!
I wouldn't have disagreed with it. Especially 9 which it seems tons of people are still using.
Explain how, then, in your world would users be so naturally encouraged to go out and buy a new computer with a new, more secure, pre-installed operating system every several years, hmmm?
I'm pretty sure I've never heard grandma say "Hey, I need a new machine so I can run XP SP2 instead of this silly Windows 2000 SP4."
Microsoft doesn't sell SP1 versions of WinXP anymore.
But the gazillion users that bought their machine with SP1 on it aren't going to run out and grab a SP2 CD when they have to reinstall their spyware laden purple Vaio.
but its beyond me how links to pictures of souped up computers on /. are the coolest thing ever
Case art is, well, an art. It may not be one that you are interested in (nor I) but at least these people are taking something bland and by their own design making it something cool looking. There's a bit of a difference between the hole-drilling dremmel-jockey case modders and the weenies that pay 50c over an SMS and think they're cool or different.
On a seperate note, I have the Super Mario theme as my ringtone... I'm a dork.
To clarify, if you only intend to distribute within the company you wrote the software for then the code only has to be distributed there as well, correct? You don't have to publicly distribute code to objects you didn't publicly distribute?
... I'd be in your 'Fans' list.
WTS != X transparency.
If you were comparing Citrix you'd be on to something.
NO ONE CARES
Someone cares. The same someone who's suing grandmas and 12 year olds. Just because any person with a decent grip on reality wouldn't care doesn't mean there aren't teams of lawyers salivating at the thought.
Regulation, through the FCC, is the reason why me, a 26 year old adult, am unable to hear the words "fuck," "shit," etc. on TV
You must've missed Richard Pryor on Comedy Central the other night... plenty of fucks and shits to get your jollys off though. Nudity is still a no-no though and with the religious right on the march I wouldn't hold your breath. Honestly, the regulations are easing as the will of the people is heard. They're a bit slow but this is one front where I'd say they're doing on 'ok' job.
Screw it... what am I saying. Fucks and shits are becoming legal 'cause it'll pull in 5% more views in the non-prime slots. If they all weren't so afraid nudity would backfire on them and their sponsers would sell 7 less widgets because of it they'd happily say 'screw the kids' and show all kinds of pierced saggy boobies. Damn execs.
The term you're looking for is "facial challenge".
Oh come on... that's just to get chuckles from the teenies.
That's the problem with politics - the politicians drag you down to their level of stupidity, then beat you up with their experience.
This broadcast flag is just another iteration of misuse of (by attempting to over-control) public airwaves.
How dare you try to drag this thread back on topic!
Nothing like this happens with Fedora, it's a manual process and sometimes a pain in the ass.
That's practically true, but you *can* update the apt/yum repositories to point to the new release and dist-upgrade. I tried it once with mixed results, mixed enough I now just full reinstall on new releases however there are generally instructions on how to do just that successfully on the web. Question from someone who's Debian use has been quite limited, how does Debian deal with major kernel changes? The exec-shield, pre-linking stuff, and general 2.6 madness in FC2 really sent FC1 users for a loop and now the selinux stuff in 3 can be a headache for people expecting 2 behavior. It seems like some changes are so massive you wouldn't want a distro to try to figure out what you had done and try to make it work in a new and possibly incompatible environment.
I'm going to agree with you. FC1 was a little shakey, it was the initial release after all. FC2 was the low-point, if you ask me. And now FC3 is pretty decent. The SELinux/udev thing threw me for a loop initially but I'm really liking the new Fedora.
And I've had no usb mouse problems.
In all fairness, they pretty much do what you're asking. They claim to aim for a 6 month release schedule and the do offer updated packages when they're available. I wouldn't count on the version numbers thing going away as every distro tracks major releases some how: Fedora, Suse, Slackware, Mandrake use numbers. Debian, Gentoo, and other use names.
If you're really into the most up to date crap, look in to atrpms. You can update through yum or they have an apt for rpm as well. I'm sure their packages are less organized or stable than Debian stable but they're newer as well.