Preparing for the Broadcast Flag?

Couch Potato asks: "I'm worried that, come next July, the FCC mandated broadcast flag will soon take away all sorts of fair use rights I have long enjoyed. Given that there are only a few months left to make purchasing decisions, how best can one prepare for the advent of the broadcast flag?" "I'm somewhat aware of projects like Myth TV, but it's not all that I want. Specifically, I want to make sure that I can record DVDs or similar files of any program I want off of cable, sattelite or broadcast TV, flag or not and without any other encumbering restrictions (such as the Macrovision DRM for DVDs) and without worry that someday they'll change something so that my old drivers and hardware are suddenly obsolete and useless when faced with updates to the formats. Note that this makes closed-source-only drivers an issue, because assuming the hardware can still be adapted to whatever they change on us, open-sources drivers can be modified and closed-source ones probably won't be, whether for legal or practical considerations. So then, what can someone with a modest budget do to make sure that their constitutional fair use rights don't succumb to planned obsolecense, like the VCR has?"

Comments

Write Some Letters

[the_mad_poster]

Hey, the FCC is an arm of the people you helped to elect. If you have a problem with what they're doing, you can either challenge their decisions in court (assuming that someone isn't already) or get people fired up to fight. What people fail to realize (assuming they're smart enough to realize when their corporate government is in the process of screwing them, anyway) is that they still have to elect congresscritters. If people really care about the issue, you can whip them into a frenzy and threaten the re-election prospect of the fat cats from your district.

If people don't care? Well, it's like the music industry's continued assault on aural quality. Too fucking bad. People are free to do as they will, and that includes fucking themselves over if they so choose.

Re:Write Some Letters

[nizo]

I was going to write a letter, but decided to watch last night's "Must See TV" for 8 hours instead. I just hope my brain is broadcast flag enabled so I can remember all this fine programming later!

Re:Write Some Letters

[DataPath]

To excerpt from an article posted on BetaNews:

Two of the three federal appeals court judges from the District of Columbia scolded the Federal Communications Commission Tuesday over what they saw as an overstep of the agency's authority given by Congress. The reprimand came in response to the FCC's ruling on the "broadcast flag."

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

If I could only write, I'd write my congressman, if he could only read.
-- Pogo

Re:Write Some Letters

[kmartshopper]

Obviously you're not from the US... when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights? How about when people were able to come to an intelligent decision? I'd say it only happens every hundred years or so... hell - it even took a massive fight between two large groups of people to decide something as simple as the idea of equality between two separate groups of people. Good luck convincing soccer mom's that freedom of speech has a purpose. Why not take away their SUVs while we're at it?

Re:Write Some Letters

[hunterx11]

Candy's dandy but bribes are quicker.

Re:Write Some Letters

[StarKruzr]

Writing letters accomplishes nothing, because they still get their re-election campaign money from (for example) Time-Warner or whomever. If they spend enough money to get re-elected, they get re-elected. Period.

There is no, repeat, NO hope of galvanizing a significant enough fraction of a Congressman's demographic to make a difference in an election when it comes to issues like intellectual property.

The only thing you can do is move out of the country or just continue to civilly disobey.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tealtalon]

I wrote my rep in my ditrict. She wrote me back telling me tough shit in not so many words completely siding with the FCC. I may have the email still. It made me furious.

http://www.house.gov/brown-waite/

At least she won't vote for privitizing social security. The average age in this district IS 127. I bring it down a bit.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/fl05_brown-wa ite/telescare.html I swear it wasn't me.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Peaked]

You say the people are free to do what they want? The poster's issue is that in the U.S. that doesn't seem to hold true any longer. The poster did not vote to fuck himself over, regardless of what others voted for.
With that said, I agree with the rest of your point. The problem here is that majority rule does not work when the majority doesn't care. People need to wake up.

Re:Write Some Letters

[MindStalker]

Interesting, this is the first I've heard of this case. Can anyone find any more links to this? Is the EFF involved, they need to be.

Re:Write Some Letters

[luvirini]

you mean like Silvio Berlusconi winning in Italy had nothing to do with him owning most TV stations?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Bin_jammin]

That sounds like a great system. Here in my country, candidates are given campaign money by huge corporations, because the more you spend to advertise the greater return you get at the voting booth. Then after election, the elected official reciprocates by changing or enacting laws favorable to big business and large corporations. Theoretically, any person can be elected to office here, but it usually doesn't work that way, because funding to oust an incumbant would come from corporate sponsors. My system in my country has worked well for a long time. Oh, BTW I live in America, where are you?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Rude Turnip]

Wow, and I thought he only owned the 'Bing!

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

hell - it even took a massive fight between two large groups of people to decide something as simple as the idea of equality between two separate groups of people

Last I heard, they were still fighting for equal rights for gays and lesbians vis. marriage [tt] ..

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, racial profiling was still policy ...

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, the rich weren't worried abut the draft ...

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, you could get blasted on booze but go to jail for pot unless you were president ...

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, steal a car, get 10 years in pmita prison - rob a billion, get 5 years or less ...

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, adults can smack kids, but kids aren't allowed to smack adults ...

Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

I disagree - people are willing to spend more time on stupidity than on the real issues. TV is more important to them than whether the person down the street has adequate medical care and equal access.

What I foresee is the comeback of the TV BRICK. Remember those - foam bricks that looked just like the real thing.

Hopefully people will start producing comedies and stuff using animation kits and we can get rid of the whole "syndicated TV" hellhole.

To answer the original poster's question - how to prepare for the broadcast flag - stop stressing over missing a stupid TV show. It's NOT REAL! It's NOT IMPORTANT!

And for all those trekkers who started the fund to save their fav. tv show - as William Shatner said on SNL - "Get a Life!"

Re:Write Some Letters

[Jherek Carnelian]

There is no, repeat, NO hope of galvanizing a significant enough fraction of a Congressman's demographic to make a difference in an election when it comes to issues like intellectual property.

The only thing you can do is move out of the country or just continue to civilly disobey.

Or, put your money where your mouth is and start a new business based on a model that sells new content but does not rely on obsolete copyright laws. If you are profitable, others will follow -- for example first came redhat (well, not really, but as far as wall street is concerned) and then HP, IBM, Novell and a whole host of smaller companies followed. We need a redhat of music and film.

Re:Write Some Letters

[bechthros]

"when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights?"

How would we know? The corporate media would never tell us even if it actually happened.

Re:Write Some Letters

[fm6]

Except that both the White House and Congress is controlled by a party with a solid majority, lots of a "safe" seats. Even if they were less sure of maintaining their hold on power, they'd only work harder to satisfy their main constituency, which is demanding stuff like wiping out terrorism, restoring "Christian" values, growing the economy, etc. etc. Hard to imagine that they'll care much whether we can share recordings of Extreme Makeover.

Nor is the other party likely to make it an issue either, even if they return to power in our lifetimes. They're the ones that appointed the current FCC chairman, you know.

Right now, the political system is wired for people with deep pockets. Until we can find a way to change that, voter "revolts" are good for just a few major issues, if anything.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tepples]

Hey, the FCC is an arm of the people you helped to elect.

The candidate for whom I voted lost. How am I represented?

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

1 fat ass american burning enough fuel to drive around their SUV, compared to 5 german or japanese cars, carrying around a family of 4!

That's because by the time you add:

1. the super-sized ass,
2. the super-sized cup holders,
3. the super-sized happy meal,
4. the super-sized fuzzy dice,
5. the super-sized boom-box,
6. the super-sized batteries for the super-sized boom box,
7. the super-sized hydraulic pump for the low-riders,
8. the super-sized gun rack
9. the super-sized brush bar,
10. the super-sized skid plates,
11. the super-sized passenger entertainment system,
12. the super-sized roof light bar,
13. etc ...

... you NEED an SUV to haul all that shit around so you can drive your fat ass the 1/4 block to the corner store to pick up some more ammo to deal with those eco-terrorists who are afraid of global warming.

Re:Write Some Letters

[mapmaker]

Look at the presidential election. Dems got MORE MONEY than the Republicans, yet Bush still won.

That's a nice lie you used to prove your point. Too bad the truth proves the opposite.

Re:Write Some Letters

[the_mad_poster]

Your statement is a bit misleading. Powell was giving A position in the FCC by Clinton, but he was made Chairman by Bush.

Re:Write Some Letters

[0111 1110]

Here in my country, candidates are given campaign money by huge corporations, because the more you spend to advertise the greater return you get at the voting booth.

That sums it up nicely. Tit for tat. What a cute system!

Re:Write Some Letters

[Rick the Red]

So, assuming we don't want to move out of the country, how do we civilly disobey? That's the qustion here: What hardware should we buy NOW so that we can civilly disobey LATER?

Re:Write Some Letters

[daveschroeder]

The candidate for whom I voted lost. How am I represented?

By the party that DIDN'T initiate the Broadcast Flag, DMCA, and CBDTPA...

Re:Write Some Letters

[Maxwell]

It's being heard in court today.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050221-46 35 .html

JON

Re:Write Some Letters

[canofbutter]

Last I heard, adults can smack kids, but kids aren't allowed to smack adults ...

Where the heck did you hear that? If an adult even so much as thinks about smacking a kid they get their kid taken away (if it's their kid) or they get jailed... Kids on the other hand practically get away with murder just because they're kids; I think you have this backwards.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Andrewkov]

I'm not American, but I see the same thing happening in Canada. The problem is that no matter who you vote for, all the parties are doing the same crap. Now if we could vote on the issues, rather than voting for a party, that would solve the problem. And is totally feasable with current technology.

Re:Write Some Letters

[servognome]

Writing letters accomplishes nothing, because they still get their re-election campaign money from (for example) Time-Warner or whomever. If they spend enough money to get re-elected, they get re-elected. Period.
It comes back to the fact that americans are apathetic towards politics. If spending more money gets you elected, that's a reflection on the mindless drone voting public who will choose one candidate over another because they saw him on TV more.
There is no, repeat, NO hope of galvanizing a significant enough fraction of a Congressman's demographic to make a difference in an election when it comes to issues like intellectual property.
Yes there is, just nobody has organized a large enough group of people nor been vocal enough to make them care. This isn't just a technology situation, you can also include small businesses who are either have to pay large amounts for single licenses, or who are "locked out" of innovating new products due to the cost of complying with the wishes of the FCC. Also teach average people about how to maximize the use of their technology fairly, then watch them scream as their rights too are taken away.
Alternatively, politics isn't necessarily about the majority, it's about who screams the loudest. The FCC bows down to a group not because it's the will of the majority of people, but because the group represents the majority of communications between the FCC and the people (90% of complaints come from 1 group).

Re:Write Some Letters

[alw53]

At least you got a straight answer; those form letters are usually constructed by staffers to avoid committing the pol on anything while pretending to agree with the writer.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

So you voted for Nader? Because both the Republicans and Democrats got money from TV/Movies/Music. In 2002, the last election where soft money was allowed, it was $40M.

Re:Write Some Letters

[_Hiro_]

We need a redhat of music and film.

Would a RedHat of Music and Literature do?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what happened to the "former" Gov. Gray Davis in CA? He got his ass kicked out. The public can cause change, but it needs a lightning rod to focus the storm.

Re:Write Some Letters

[eno2001]

Ahhh... but grasshoppah... that toothead boozehound pot smoker G. W. Bush IS in office. ;P

No worries mate!

Re:Write Some Letters

[fm6]

No intent to mislead -- I googled for news items on who appointed him, and read them carelessly.

Re:Write Some Letters

[mjm1231]

Actually, Bush outspent Kerry by about 10%.

Only on Slashdot can someone have their facts wrong and be modded insightful.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Hobadee]

Hey, the FCC is an arm of the people you helped to elect. If you have a problem with what they're doing, you can either challenge their decisions in court (assuming that someone isn't already) or get people fired up to fight.

<flamebait>I don't remember electing Bush the first time, but he went ahead and invaded Iraq anyways despite me protesting.</flamebait>
Government isn't as peachy as you would make it out to be.

Re:Write Some Letters

[hackwrench]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marijuana+bus h

Re:Write Some Letters

[luvirini]

Those events were used to be called riots. Now they are called terrorism.

Re:Write Some Letters

[superflippy]

you can either challenge their decisions in court (assuming that someone isn't already)

Fortunately, somebody is: Court Debates Anti-Piracy TV Technology

Re:Write Some Letters

[jo42]

Too bad super-sizing didn't happen to their brains...

Re:Write Some Letters

[Uzik2]

>Last I heard, adults can smack kids, but kids aren't allowed to smack adults ...

You have that one backwards. If my kids hit me
that's ok. They're a minor and not responsible
for their actions. If they hit me, I'm responsible
for getting hit! If I hit them it's child abuse.
My daughter hurt herself why playing at a friends
house. I arrived to pick her up and found an
ambulance there. I went in to see what had
happened. The cops arrived and immediately
assumed I had abused her. If her friends mother
hadn't told them I wasn't even present at the
time I would probably be in jail now. I don't
live in "the projects" either.

Re:Write Some Letters

[luvirini]

Only on Slashdot can someone have their facts wrong and be modded insightful

Nah.. works in real life too, just try it some day, throw totally wrong facts, but ones that are not obviously so. Do enough of this in a authorative tone and see people react to you like you know something.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Ironsides]

I notice that they only include the money spent by the candidates themselves and not any of the advocacy groups or parties. Got any numbers on those last two? As I seem to recall, a lot of those "advocacy" groups spent a lot of money this last election.

Re:Write Some Letters

[snwcrash]

It has more to do with lack of choice than Apathy. No candidate is probably running on the no broadcast flag platform. I also doubt that either party has a direction I would agree with.

It really ends up being the courts are the only mechanism for less politically relavent issues to be resolved.

To be honest, as long as my Tivo still works I'm not really all that concerned about the Broadcast flag. If they make it so I can't zap commercials, than I'll be up in arms.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, gays can get married - they just gotta find someone of the opposite sex.

Last I heard, aiport security searchs BOTH young arab males, and old white grandmas, even though the second group is a complete waste of time.

Last I heard, the draft ended 30 years ago, and the hippies gave up on pot smoking so they could get a job. Including the last two presidents.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Surt]

The really important problem here is that people are free to screw me over, just by voting for stuff that screws us all. I'm ruled by the 90+% of this country which seems to be filled with idiots. I've attempted to get people interested in their rights, but there's only so much time I can devote to this and retain a job.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Just turn off your television. The only reason we have a cable is for the cable modem. I haven't bought a cd or dvd for years and don't intend to ever buy another. My quality of life has improved as has my health. For entertainment I read or spend time with friends and family or actually do something as opposed to watch someone else do something on television.

Give up any hope you ever had of influencing the political system. It is completly and irreversibly corrupt and doesn't care unless you show up with a boat load of money.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

ah, but it is important.
It fills in the void of stumulation that the typical person lacks in their life. It gives a person reason to live so they go work and make more money for some rich person to go have a stimulating life.

Shatner can say get a life because he has the money to go do things.

TV is cheap and the thing most people are capable of enjoying as entertainment. People are willing to waste time on saving what they can afford to waste their time on.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Bush is doing coke

no, not cola

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

TV is cheap and the thing most people are capable of enjoying as entertainment.

Sex is cheaper. And a LOT more fun :-) And healthier. 'Tis the gift that's as much fun to give as to receive ... (well, there ARE exceptions ... but we're not talking about "the receiver" axa goat.cx).

People are willing to waste time on saving what they can afford to waste their time on.

Very true. Just like people will go into hock to get a fast car with all sorts of options, then find that they can't afford to drive it because of the twin hits of high insurance premiums and high fuel costs. Makes no sense in a rational world, but "c'est la vie". IOW, people aren't rational.

Telling them to stop watching TV is easy - getting them to do it is hard. There's a symbiosis between TV and "comfort foods".

Television should come with a warning before each show - "Watching too much TV may make you fat, ugly, delusional, and just plain stupid" ... maybe play "Dueling Banjos" (theme from Deliverance) in the background to help emphasize the point.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Hyperspac]

How do the "Give up before you even try" comments always get moded interesting / insightful? Are people jsut looking for justification for their appathy?

Re:Write Some Letters

[dermusikman]

I wrote my congressman once, in regards to the DMCA. Score one point for democracy, right?

My congressman wrote me back (or rather, sent back a copy of a previously prepared letter) saying that he'd seriously considered my point of view, and decided that I was an immoral pirate with no idea what's good for America.

I'll refrain from expressing my disappointment in our government system, but the idea that holding a re-election over someone's head truly makes a difference is bollocks, unless you've got the money to lobby heavily - oh, like Corporate America does :D

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

Last I heard, certain groups (bible-thumpers, like Bush) believed their bible, which states [tt]:

"Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." King Solomon, The Bible, Proverbs 23:14

- so there's a "freedom of religion" argument to be made there. Same as Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions for their children - which have to be over-ridden by a judge on a case-by-case basis.

I don't agree, but then again, I think any book that can take more than 750,000 words to tell you how to dress, how to talk, how to deal with your neighbours, your kids, your wife/husband/parents/children, what not to look at, etc.,, claiming to be THE moral authority for people's lives, but can't find the space for 4 words - "slavery is WRONG, asshole", is seriously fucked up to begin with.

Re:Write Some Letters

[RocketScientist]

But the underlying question is, why are Americans apathetic about politics?

Because we have no control over anything. Your vote does not count, not because the person you voted for may or may not get elected, but because no matter who gets elected, within a month of being elected they become the same corrupt piece of politician that you voted for them to NOT be.

Consider, for a moment, the "Conservative" and "Small Government" Republicans. Voting for the biggest (1.4 trillion dollar and rising) entitlement program ever, the Medicare Prescription Drug act, aka Viagra for Seniors. Which is basically a huge spending program to benefit pharmaceutical companies and extend government power. Voting for and signing budgets to create ever larget budget deficits and more debt. Growing government at a pace unprecedented since FDR. They'll talk a good game on Social Security reform, but it will NEVER happen because it reduces the amount of money they have to play with. They'll talk about simplifying the tax code, but that would give up the legislative line-item veto on your household budget, so that will NEVER happen.

It doesn't matter who is in what office. A politician's vote is decided by two things: what will expand their power more and who has the most money in their checking account. The broadcast flag is STRICTLY a means for politicians to line their pockets at the expense of something a very small but ineptly vocal majority will not like.

Not all Americans are apathetic because we are lazy. Some of us are apathetic because we know, no matter what actions we take or money we donate, the results will not change.

But, I'm not bitter or anything.

Re:Write Some Letters

[drseuss9311]

this is good... wish i had a mod point... SPOT ON!

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Sex is cheaper

Remember this is Slashdot, so that's a bad example. Most people here probably pay for their sex. :)

Re:Write Some Letters

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Sony and Dreamworks have more influence on elections and appointments than a pack of citize^H^H^H^H^H^H customers ever will.

Re:Write Some Letters

[No. 24601]

Last I heard, adults can smack kids, but kids aren't allowed to smack adults ...
Oh ... you meant 2 other groups of people -

Last I heard, adults could go to jail for a fist fight, but kids can't go to jail because of bullying on a playground.

Oh... you meant 2 other groups of people.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Go ahead and read it. I dare you. Go ahead and read what it says about slavery. Oops, you were attacking Jews instead of looking for an honest debate.

Re:Write Some Letters

[jgerman]

The candidate for whom I voted lost. How am I represented?


Doesn't matter. You still voted. You may not have gotten the result you wanted as an individual, but you DID participate in the process, and by doing so implicitly gave your consent to be represented by the winners.

Re:Write Some Letters

[hawk]

Yes there is, just nobody has organized a large enough group of people nor been vocal enough to make them care.

Indeed. Why, President Dean would be just another also-ran if it weren't for the effectiveness of such campaigns.

Oh, wait . . .

:)

hawk

Re:Write Some Letters

[yellowstone]

Ahhh... but grasshoppah... that toothead boozehound pot smoker G. W. Bush IS in office. ;P

Gasp! You mean our president was something of a partier 30 years ago?! Shocking!

Oh, wait. That's been widely known for more than 5 years. It's not shocking at all. It's really funny, in a pathetically sad kind of way, the way the Bush-haters cling to this story, and at the same time give Clinton's "I tried it but I didn't inhale story" a pass.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Elect?

A democratic process takes into account _all_ of it's members, which is _not_ what we have in USA (I've heard it termed 'democratic republic').

How do you think people get elected? Do rosy-cheeked people skip hand-in-hand to the local voting booth to pull the lever on an ideal candidate with whom they agree on every point? Of course not.

You vote for the lesser evil: you may not agree with everything they say, but you vote for them because you think they come the closest to your ideals. You vote for someone who _can_ get elected (Ross Perot got close, anyway...). How many double or triple minority candidates (e.g. gay feminist black women - Ok, so that was 4...) had any significant vote count over the last, well, forever? Or maybe you just vote for them because they are in your political party. Who said anything about 'party levers' in voting booths?

Now, this candidate you are voting for had lots of air-time on the radio and tv to get their message out, which costs lots of money. How did they get this money? "By dedicated workers who volunteered time and money because of their principles." No! Because ACME Corp, who happens to earn $10 Bil. / year (or about 20,000 times what a college graduate makes) slipped the candidate a cool $10 Mil. so that when some bill comes up (like the one about changing 'intellectual property' laws) ACME will have some say in the matter. Of course, the smart people at ACME who want to have a say regardless of who gets elected have carefully funded both sides of the election.

Just a little silliness:
electorals - your vote stops here.
money - how many millions does it take to get a president elected?
majority rule - white, middle-aged, male: did I miss anyone?
vote rigging - "it only happens in quaint history books"
4 years - what happens if I don't like the broken promises, I change my mind, or?
2 candidates - 2 _must_ be better than one...
making laws, the inequality factor - it takes only a little push to get a law made, but a huge debacle to get a law repealed. I mean, it's not like society actually changes or anything.

Elections are a ritual when the sheep are herded into the voting booths for a result that has no significant effect on what happens over the next four years.

Face it. We are a damaged society with a damaged system. Of course, there is no easy way to fix it: it runs 'open loop'...

Re:Write Some Letters

[hawk]

Don't have a legislature where you come from, I take it?

:)

hawk

Re:Write Some Letters

[DaveJay]

A child of a friend of mine, at the time around 3 years old, one announced while watching TV "Mommy, turn off the TV -- It's making me stupid."

Clever kid, eh?

Re:Write Some Letters

[rtkluttz]

Hmm.. Alex, I'm not sure.... but I'll try "What is a bleeding heart liberal?"

DING DING DING

Re:Write Some Letters

[eno2001]

I didn't give Clinton a pass. I want equal time. Put both the jackasses up as examples of supremely stupid judgement. It's just that Bush is worse because he wouldn't admit it.

Re:Write Some Letters

[canofbutter]

Yes that's the theory, however people scream "child abuse" even if they parent looks at their kid wrong, yet quite honestly the kid away with doing whatever they want simply because the parent is too afraid of kid playing the "child abuse" card.

Additionally, your arguments of fighting for rights seem to mostly just apply to so-called "moral" issues, which big businesses and in turn the bribed^H^H^H^H^H^H^H elected officials don't care about nearly as much as what impacts their profit margin.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

We have Magnatune for music.

Re:Write Some Letters

[lachlan76]

That's good....I have to do a presentation for my science class in 20 mintutes. That could be helpful to know... ;)

Re:Write Some Letters

[cayenne8]

"1 fat ass american burning enough fuel to drive around their SUV, compared to 5 german or japanese cars, carrying around a family of 4!"

I dunno...my small German car is lucky to get 10 mpg on a good week.

:-)

Re:Write Some Letters

[tepples]

you DID participate in the process, and by doing so implicitly gave your consent to be represented by the winners.

Two wolves and one sheep vote on what to have for dinner. How is the sheep being represented?

Re:Write Some Letters

[The Angry Mick]

Yeah, but now we won't be able to record and present any video evidence of his, or any other congress critter's bad behavior to the poor sods convinced they're listening to the new, improved, Son of God.

Not that they'd listen anyway . . .

Re:Write Some Letters

[Rod Beauvex]

Hell, you don't even need to smack them. Just push them away when they come at you after they attack you, and you get a free ride to the convict castle., and they get, well, nothing.

Re:Write Some Letters

[cayenne8]

"I didn't give Clinton a pass. I want equal time. Put both the jackasses up as examples of supremely stupid judgement. It's just that Bush is worse because he wouldn't admit it."

You know...if we don't allow anyone who got high a few times at least in High School or College...the pool to pick from for elected representatives is going to get too small to pick from.

I dunno anyone who never partied in their younger days....and they're all Doctors, Lawyers, or successful businessmen these days. This may strike some as weird, but, drugs are for younger people. Once you get older and have to be responsible in the 'real world'...possibly responsible for your own kids, you don't have the time to do that crap anymore. I view it pretty much as a right of passage...something just about every kid does IMHO, and something you shouldn't hold against them later in life...

Re:Write Some Letters

[canofbutter]

Kids really need a good beating every now and then, just ask Maddox; he's right about everything.

Re:Write Some Letters

[NardofDoom]

Yes, writing a letter works. I get letters back from my congresspeople all the time. Basically, they're telling me to "Kindly Fuck Off."

And voting doesn't work either. That was proven this past November.

The real solution? Vote with your feet: Leave the fucking country. Boycotts are the only thing corporate fatcats understand.

Re:Write Some Letters

[smc13]

I see. Because the majority don't believe in what you believe, they need to wake up. Did you ever think that the majority of us might actually know better then you? Of course not.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Taladar]

Isn't it ironic how the same democracy that gets installed in Afghanistan and Iraq by the Bush Administration fails miserably in almost all countries using it for a long period of time. It isn't only the U.S. that has the problem you describe, at least here in Germany we suffer from the 2-party-system as well. They are named different than the U.S. ones but basically both do the same when elected and everyone in the general population with the smallest bit of a brain sees how the system fails miserably yet nobody changes anything because we all live too well to risk a real revolution and realize anything short of a totally new system of Government won't change anything.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Zackbass]

"when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights?"

You might not agree with them, but the NRA has put up quite a fight on behalf of its members. The anti-gun groups? How about the ACLU? I hear they have a few more than ten members now.

Just because you want someone else to fight for your rights doesn't the public is apathetic. It jsut means they have different priorities.

Re:Write Some Letters

[4of12]

Berlusconi wins in Italy because he owns most TV stations and most of government, including the courts and maybe a few shares of Parlamat, too.

Re:Write Some Letters

[eno2001]

I agree. However, the neocons didn't play it that way when they obsessed about Clinton's cock and his pot smoking days. Why should I offer their boy any slack? You can't have double standards. Either take the stance that what someone did in the past doesn't matter and extend that to Democrats and Neocons alike, or crucify them all. That's the only logical way to be.

Re:Write Some Letters

[squiggleslash]

TMP has a good rebuttal to this, IMHO.

Liberals have never given Clinton a pass on this, but you'd have to so Republican you're swinging from the branches to [tt]hink the Clinton "Smoked but didn't inhale" thing is in the same ballpark as Bush's rampant drug abuse and his refusal to give an honest answer on the issue. What's remarkable is not that liberals consider Clinton's acts not impeachable, but that the same Repugs who claimed that they were give Bush a free pass when it comes to drinking and driving, pot, and cocaine abuse. Clinton never did anything bad enough to get convicted of anything.

Bush did, repeatedly, despite his high up connections.

Re:Write Some Letters

[EpsCylonB]

Sex is cheaper.

Really ?, I must be getting really ripped off...

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree - people are willing to spend more time on stupidity than on the real issues.

Welcome to human nature 101. No one cares about anyone else. There is no such thing as a selfless act. Please stop acting like you're better than everyone else because you "care" about social injustices. You aren't. You have simply found a personality trait that gives you a sense of purpose and superiority, which in turn gives you a natural high. You really think you're a better person because you care about others. It makes you feel good to be the type of person that cares. Just admit it, and stop putting down people for wanting to change things that effect their every day lives. I like the show Enterprise, yet you would have me believe that I'm a bad person for wanting to save it, just because all of the world's other problems haven't been solved yet. What you fail to see is that your complaining does no good at all. The reason we have a world (soon to be) controlled by rich corporations is that most people are cattle. This is not their fault. It's in our nature. As long as the majority of people are just happy enough to not care, corporations can do whatever they want. If you're lucky enough to see the forest from the trees, don't try to save everyone else. It does no good. They'll just pull you down into the muck with them. Elevate yourself. Use the system. Stop trying to fight it.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tepples]

but I'll try "What is a bleeding heart liberal?"

Better yet, "What is a bleeding Purple Heart liberal?"

Re:Write Some Letters

[jgerman]

Two wolves and one sheep vote on what to have for dinner. How is the sheep being represented?


Simple answer. The sheep voted, tough shit for him. He should have ran while the wolves voted.

Nice attempt at being clever, but your analogy doesn't fit the situation. Try again. I was even going to originally respond that that's the basis for this country's government, but you failed to even construct an analogy that matched that. This is isn't a democracy, it's a representative republic. It's also a government where the sheep is provided basic rights.

When you participate in the electoral process, you are bound to it. Case closed.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tepples]

start a new business based on a model that sells new content but does not rely on obsolete copyright laws.

If you do so, the incumbents will probably sue you, claiming that you subconsciously infringed their copyrights in your own work. Google Bright Tunes v. Harrisongs for the gory details.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, gays can get married - they just gotta find someone of the opposite sex.

Last I heard, people can say whatever they want in North Korea. They just gotta avoid criticizing the government.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tepples]

When you participate in the electoral process, you are bound to it.

But the converse is not true. I am bound to obey the supreme law of the land whether I vote or not. Therefore, refraining from voting doesn't buy me anything.

Re:Write Some Letters

[WizardOfZid]

OK, so the volume of letters about BPL should have stopped it in its tracks. The vast majority of comments were against BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) but the FCC had already decided in their favor despite the comments and their own internal technical reports showing how flawed the technology is in its present form. In fact, the ARRL has filed for a reconsideration of the Report and Order partially on grounds that the Commission had already decided before the fact for the BPL. ARRL Link

I just don't have confidence that the majority does rule in many of our agencies. I'd love to be convinced I'm wrong.

Re:Write Some Letters

[SpongeBobLinuxPants]

Keep in mind, here in America we get all up in arms and political because maybe at some point in time people are considering something that may or may not happen in the future. Mean while in the rest of the world, there is a 14 year old boy in his countries army because the leader who was chosen because he was the oldest male in the family that has ruled for 300 years says so, no vote, no rights, just do what I say. Yes, I am a proud American, but come on people! Our country bitches about the stupidest things...

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet Iraq will love your American laws too.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Or are loonies

Re:Write Some Letters

[hostyle]

Maybe its time you went on a diet?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

you NEED an SUV to haul all that shit around so you can drive your fat ass the 1/4 block to the corner store to pick up some more ammo to deal with those eco-terrorists who are afraid of global warming.

Actually eco-terrorist greenpeace-hippies are so stupid and docile you can club them to death just like baby seals. In many cases you find they've even chained themselves to an object or to each other for some reason or other and in the event that some glimmer of reality intrudes upon their fevered little minds as you begin to bludgeon them to death it will greatly impede their pathetic attempts at flight.

Re:Write Some Letters

[aussersterne]

What do you mean "if people don't care?"

People don't even understand the issues enough to talk about them, much less be upset by them.

I shock people every day by using an unlocked cell phone. It has one carrier's logo on the outside and another on the screen. I unlocked it myself. More often than not, people are very interested in "how I did that" but don't have time to actually listen to the ten-sentence explanation: they're busy trying to keep their job and earn enough money to make rent. They already have too many things on their plate.

Those that do listen are shocked and I've had several people talk to me in utter disbelief that "they" would impose artificial walls of dysfunctionality on devices that we pay for, in order to ensure/increase "their" profits.

Other issues I've had similar experiences trying to explain to people include:

• DVD region encoding
  
• Inkjet/laser printer ink/toner compatibility
  
• Automobile performance tuning (i.e. "the computer" in the car)
  
• Just about everything else
  

When people don't even understand the technology... when DVDs, printers, phones, VCRs, cars, and everything else are just bewildering "magic" to very intelligent people (lawyers, accountants, etc..), it's no wonder that they don't understand (and thus can't act on) any of the issues that surround technology.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Grant Root]

> The only thing you can do is move out of the
> country or just continue to civilly disobey.

Actually, there is something you can do, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON complaining here should do it now if he hasn't already: join the Electronic Frontier Foundation (www.eff.org). The EFF is fighting on the front lines for your digital rights as we speak, and they need all the help they can get.

Re:Write Some Letters

[cayenne8]

" Maybe its time you went on a diet?"

Actually, I have been. I'm now about 197 lbs.....and still losing....thanks for asking...

:-)

With the gas thing...it is more a problem of keeping my foot out of the turbo...

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

Who's attacking Jews?

Paul was writing to christians when he wrote this piece of "helpful advice" (for values of "helpful advice" equal to "not helpful at all") (1 Cor 7:

20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

In other words, if you were a slave, "don't worry, be happy". And if you're a slave-owner, that's okay, because you can be a "good christian" and still own people - you don't HAVE to set them free unless you want to.

Slavery has always been wrong. How hard would it have been to replace one of the 10 commandments with "You can't own people"?

Instead, it talks about (10th commandment) not coveting, including not coveting your neighbor's slave. This is talking to slave-owners.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Phleg]

It comes back to the fact that americans are apathetic towards politics.

Actually, most Americans aren't apathetic about politics. The problem is that everybody thinks that they and only they are right. When anyone tries to debate, it devolves into a shouting match where nobody can agree that the other side has valid points. After a few episodes of that, nobody wants to discuss anything even remotely politically related any more.

I love debate, and it pisses me off because ninety-five percent of the time, whenever politics is brought up and the other person has a differing opinion, the other person starts acting agitated and switches topics. I'm not a scathing or caustic person, and other people have reported similar occurrences, so I'm doubtful that it's just me. Hell, look at the most recent election:

Bush is horrible! Ignore anything bad about Kerry and elect him anyways! Since Bush is Satan, Kerry could not possibly be worse!

And, of course, similar statements from the other, equally closed-minded, side of the political spectrum.

Re:Write Some Letters

[handslikesnakes]

The American public? Sometime around 1776 would be my guess.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Deadly_Hunter]

The FCC is not elected, its appointed.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

speak loudly with your wallet. dont buy into it after all its only tv

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Blatant disregard for weed laws is what lead to it's original decriminalization. They saw that the people were disobeying, so obviously they disagreed.

It was later overturned, but still.

Just ignoring the law CAN also help the situation...

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, please stop acting like you're any better. It's human nature to follow the path of least resistance. Americans have very little motivation to "care" about politics. American corporations and political parties have mastered the art of appeasement.

Re:Write Some Letters

[dynamo]

Actually, you should hope your brain is not broadcast-flag enabled, or you won't be able to tell anyone about it.

Re:Write Some Letters

[mrzaph0d]

That's the only logical way to be.

ah, that's your problem. logic has no place in american politics.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

I somehow don't think that bombing the FCC headquarter's is an appropriate measure of outrage over this Broadcast flag...

Likewise though I don't think that killing women and children in a muslim church is an appropriate responce to the changing of power from one government to the next.

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

I really like what one comedian has to say about it ... Russel (I forget what his last name is) - he tells abut how his father's favourite line is "Somebody's going to get a big hurt ...!"

So one day, he sees one of his friends telling his parents off big-time, and he goes "How do you get away with that? I'd be whacked so fast if I said that."

His friend says "Whenever they get mad at me, I just tell them I've memorized Child Services phne number ... I can do ANYTHING!"

So Russel goes home, his father tells him to take out the garbage, and he says "Fuck you!"
His father looks at him and says "What did you say?"

"Fuck you. You try to make me take out the garbage and I'll call Child Services."

The father says "Okay Russel. Call them. Call them now. But remember, it takes 20 minutes for them to get here ... and somebody's going to get a big hurt if that garbage isn't taken out NOW!"

The garbage got taken out.

Me, I prefer a "more subtle" approach. Like the time I was babysitting for one of my sisters, and my niece's dog crapped on the floor, and she wouldn't pick it up (that was the deal - you want a dog, you take care of it).

I told her "If I have to pick it up, I'm putting it in your bed. Your call." She picked up after it.

I had one simple rule for my own kids - "I don't care who started the fight, we're ALL going to sit down at the table and waste 15 minutes doing nothing except be quiet and think about what just happened." They soon realize that you're willing to "invest" 15 minutes of your life into enforcing peace, and that it doesn't matter who started it, everyone loses when they fight.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the longshot candidate nobody heard about before. The guy who became politically significant because of his loud outcry against the war in Iraq.
Being vocal let him be heard, unfortunately he tried a little too hard and came off looking a little psychotic.

Re:Write Some Letters

[canofbutter]

I find this truely amazing, as I am yet to find a kid for which tactics like this work... Glad to hear that you're lucky with your kids. I personally do not have any, but the ones I have to watch regularly have no respect for me as an authority (it could be that they aren't my kids and thus don't see me as having any "control" over them, but that still shows that the kids have a certain mindset that is only supressed for his/her parent(s) rather than to people in general)

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

That's the problem with politics - the politicians drag you down to their level of stupidity, then beat you up with their experience.

This broadcast flag is just another iteration of misuse of (by attempting to over-control) public airwaves. Remember the v-chip? The 7 words you could not say on TV? Ed Sullivan banning the Stones for not changing the words of their song "Let's spend the night together".

In every case, someone has an agenda, and that agenda is to force their wants on everyone else. Sometimes (like now) it's corporations. Other times, it's individuals (a la Sullivan) or the "Moral Majority/Religious Right/Soul-sucking Political Hacks" or whatever the pressure group de jour is.

Part of the price for access to the public airwaves is fair use.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Spodlink05]

You've hit the nail on the head there.

People will happily support protests - until they are affected personally.

For example, in the UK there were protests about the high taxation on fuel - mainly by hauliers and farmers. There were nationwide blockades of refineries etc.

But when people actually started running out of petrol because of the blockades they suddenly stopped supporting it. Because they were personally affected.

Re:Write Some Letters

[servognome]

The problem is point politics is a roll of the dice. You have to organize a group to consistantly battle towards specific goals. The EFF, ACLU, Christian Coalition, etc. have influence because the consistantly represent a specific set of goals. People and politicians know where they stand, know they won't just go away, and know they can influence votes now and in the future.

Re:Write Some Letters

[servognome]

Actually, most Americans aren't apathetic about politics. The problem is that everybody thinks that they and only they are right.
People don't vote, people don't participate, people don't care. To be able to debate you have to understand something, since most people don't care enough to understand, they go with the "I'm right, you are wrong attitude." You can't have an intelligent debate with somebody who doesn't even know why they believe what they believe.
Look at the "debates" people have on Kyoto protocol, you are either for corporations or for the environment; no middle ground. How many people actually read the document, let alone done any research into what it would impact? Yet people still keep to their gut feelings and choose a side.
Debate is fun :)

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

I guess I was lucky. Grew up in a largish family (oldest of 6 kids). Lots of experience babysitting my younger sibs. Then my own and theirs.

Plus, they know that I'm not some grouchy meannie. I've never used "because I said so," probably because that never worked for me as a kid.

I remember one kid (not mine) who was into throwing temper tantrums at 10 years old when he didn't want to do his homework. No probelm - grabbed a video camera and recorded the tantrum. "What are you doing?" "Making a video for your friends to watch when they come over, so they can see just how much of a baby you are when you don't get your way."

Of course I eventually had to follow through and show it one day. Made my point. Kids respect consistency - say you'll do "x" if "y", then do it.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

"because we all live too well to risk a real revolution"
Isn't that the point? we live well, we are safe, we have food, oh no I can't get municipal wi-fi goverment is corrupt!

Re:Write Some Letters

[tomhudson]

Bush is doing coke

no, not cola

Pepsi wanted to sponsor him, but Bush saw what happened to Michael Jackson's nose, and figured the coke was less harmful nosecandy ...

Re:Write Some Letters

[ralphclark]

It's easy to talk big like that when you're anonymous. Ooh, we're all so frightened of you. It's not called "anonymous COWARD" for nothing.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

and the hippies gave up on pot smoking so they could get a job.

Nah, they just gave up the clothes and smoke up in the board room

Re:Write Some Letters

[tylernt]

"No one cares about anyone else ... don't try to save everyone else. It does no good. They'll just pull you down into the muck with them ... Stop trying to fight it."

Hmmm, a little bitter and apathetic, aren't we?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

The fun thing is, those recent tapes supposedly recorded of bush by a family friend (certain people state they don't think it sounds like bush at all) have bush stating that although he smoked, he doesn't want to admit it for the children. He wanted to be a better role model and not have kids say "Daddy, I want to smoke because the president smoked!" (thats a paraphrase from the tape btw).

AC'd!

Re:Write Some Letters

[rob_squared]

" Hey, the FCC is an arm of the people you helped to elect."

It certainly is, an APPOINTED arm.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the presidential election. Dems got MORE MONEY than the Republicans, yet Bush still won. By 7 million votes.

What does money have to do with anything???? Money buys advertisements, publicity, and attention. That is what Time Warner, et al provide for free. When you have the media on your side, you don't need money. When you don't have the media on your side, you can't win. No politician challenges the media.

That's why both houses of congress voted unanimously to enact the DMCA one week before the 1998 election. It is the reason both houses of congress passed the Copyright Term Extension Act by voice vote, in one day, with no debate, one month before the 1998 election. It is the reason congress will support the broadcast flag even if the courts strike it down.

Sure politicians like money. But money is only useful if it buys attention. Politicians will do anything to get attention for free.

Look at yourself. You are quoting the same rhetoric the media has been feeding you. You probably even believe the liberal bias myth (a myth publicized by the same people that supposedly have said bias).

Re:Write Some Letters

[StarKruzr]

In fairness, however, he's now going to be the chairman of the DNC. He might just convince the country that the Democrats stand for something after all.

We'll see.

Re:Write Some Letters

[StarKruzr]

You'd think the Internet would be a place with slightly above-average intelligence people out there who weren't afraid to speak their minds, but what typically happens with any online discussion medium (forums, IRC, whatever) when I bring up politics or religion is that a couple people either storm off in a fury -simply because something controversial is being discussed- or try again and again to change the subject because any kind of argument about anything makes them uncomfortable. I can't stand that shit.

Re:Write Some Letters

[StarKruzr]

Please point me to some grassroots efforts to change some political matter that actually made a difference.

Re:Write Some Letters

[onemorechip]

Hey, the FCC is an arm of the people you helped to elect.

Er, no, it's an arm of the people I tried to defeat.

Re:Write Some Letters

[JamieF]

>Isn't it ironic how the same democracy that gets installed in Afghanistan and Iraq by the Bush Administration fails miserably in almost all countries using it for a long period of time.

Yes, the democracy that the Bush administration went back in time to install in Germany after WWII clearly is a disaster. If only we could have the kind of democracy that Liberia enjoys instead of the kind that Western Europe and the US have to put up with. Japan also suffers in agony at the awful tyrrany of democracy.

We're all waiting to hear your brilliant solution to the fact that people are happy and don't want to mess things up too much.

Re:Write Some Letters

[LilMikey]

That's the problem with politics - the politicians drag you down to their level of stupidity, then beat you up with their experience.

This broadcast flag is just another iteration of misuse of (by attempting to over-control) public airwaves.

How dare you try to drag this thread back on topic!

Re:Write Some Letters

[JamieF]

>I love debate

Maybe people don't want to have the same argument again and again, except this time, with you instead of someone else.

Bummer for you that it pisses you off that people don't like conflict for conflict's sake.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Cappy Red]

"'when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights?'

How would we know? The corporate media would never tell us even if it actually happened."

The public doesn't need to stand up for its rights when it can make clever responses like that.

Or that.

Or that.

Or that. Or that. Or that. Or that.

Or that.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you driving thats small, German and only does 10mpg.

A porsche boxter without ever changing out of first gear?

Re:Write Some Letters

[jimi the hippie]

"Clinton never did anything bad enough to get convicted of anything."
What about killing Vince Foster?

Re:Write Some Letters

[fearofcarpet]

I'm sure someone else has posted this link, but just to be sure:

http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/HDTV/?f=broadcastfla g.html

The above link is information regarding the EFF's court challenge to the broadcast flag law. They claim the FCC is overstepping their authority. They also point out that where the FCC has no jurisditicion (cable, sat, etc.) companies are happlily enabling the broadcast flag of their own free will... So what now? We boycott our HDTV sat/cable broadcasts? No beer and no TV make Homer go something something....

Re:Write Some Letters

[cayenne8]

" What the hell are you driving thats small, German and only does 10mpg."

911 Turbo.

Re:Write Some Letters

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, aiport security searchs BOTH young arab males, and old white grandmas, even though the second group is a complete waste of time.

So's the first group. What's your point, and would you please quit trying to set your shoe on fire?

Re:Write Some Letters

[Hyperspac]

Hmm... How about Leaded gas, seatbelts in cars, women's right to vote or maybe the Civil Rights Movement ? Do I need to go on?

Move

[Quasar1999]

I hate to say it, but if it bothers you that much that you have to circumvent laws/rules placed by your government, or government approved commitee, I suggest you move to a country where your rights won't be squished. Or, sit on your ass and suck it up...

Re:Move

[fleener]

Instead of moving to Canada, get married and make hot monkey love with your wife. After your first child is born, you'll soon realize adult images permeate every aspect of our existence -- images unseen by casual existence just twenty years ago -- and you'll want to kill your TV.

Or maybe you'll just move the TV to your bedroom and watch recorded shows after the kid is asleep. But I tell you, once you break the cycle of frequent TV watching, you realize how many cooler things you could be doing with your time besides watching corporate entertainment.

Re:Move

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehe...either you are a brilliant sardonicist or you aren't paying very close attention.

Either way, your comment gave me my giggle for the day.

Re:Move

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wasn't this modded up as +5 Funny? The idea that the US has more freedom than 'socialist' Europe just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. Most of us enslaved Europeans wouldn't even think of visiting your razor-wire surrounded compound for a holiday now, never mind consider living there.

Re:Move

[tverbeek]

Mod parent: +1 Ironically Funny

The U.S. is a Represenative Plutocracy (one dollar, one vote), and it's Capitalism - not Socialism - that's pushing this particular threat to freedom.

Re:Move

[Anonymous Coward]

Nor does posting foster intelligence. Socalism is an economic system. Democracy is a political system. It is possible to have a socialist democracy, just as it is possible to have a marxist democracy. Or to blow your mind a captialist monarchy.

Say stupid things attempting to belittle people and you just sound stupid mommy.

Re:Move

[Tackhead]

> Instead of moving to Canada, get married and make hot monkey love with your wife. After your first child is born, you'll soon realize adult images permeate every aspect of our existence -- images unseen by casual existence just twenty years ago -- and you'll want to kill your TV.

OK, I did that.

After I made love to your wife, my wife got rather annoyed with me. And she really got pissed when I kept at it after our first child was born.

I ended up having to move to Canada, and I already knew there was pr0n on the internets before I started, so where, precisely, was the win here?

Re:Move

[homer_ca]

Not exactly. Money buys advertising. Advertising can't work miracles if one side is much more popular, but it does make the difference in any competitive race.

Re:Move

[deltwalrus]

so where, precisely, was the win here?

You've moved away from your wife and you still have to ask that?

Re:Move

[0111 1110]

Or, sit on your ass and suck it up...

As a Libertarian, my vote never gets anyone elected, even in local elections. So I am used to that. I have a comfortable chair.

This country used to be known as a country of individualists and, yes, anarchists to an extent. 'Tis no longer true of course, but I stand by our proud tradition of thumbing our noses at our government, poking fun at our ratlike leaders and ignoring laws and any other rules that I don't agree with. This is what makes me an American.

Re:Move

[tverbeek]

You're missing the point: It isn't about which person gets elected. Whichever one wins, s/he owes too many favors to the companies that paid for the campaign (likely giving money to both sides). Money doesn't buy elections; it buys elected officials.

Re:Move

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but there used to be some truth to this. What happened is the US became more socialist (and fascist) and Europe become less. So I'd say we are about equal now in an economic sense. In other (non-economic) areas I would agree that America has less, not more, freedom than most of Europe. The most important indicator of economic "freedom" is taxes. How do yours compare to the US? The average American pays somewhere between 35% and 55% of his income in taxes. In other words 1/3 to 1/2 of his work day is spent as slave labor for the government. I don't know if I would really call that "freedom". I guess we should all just move to the Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong. Cantonese is a tough langauge though. Maybe the hardest in the world.

Re:Move

[MaxQuordlepleen]

Or to blow your mind a captialist monarchy.

All this is true, of course. I think Capitalism can have a democratizing influence,through fostering social mobility. "new money" parvenus get access to the corridors of power, which in a monarchy or aristocracy is usually restricted to the "select group".

Re:Move

[pinkocommie]

First off Disclaimer: I am a Dean fan but i'm not saying he's worth anything or the real thing etc
He raised money without using corporate donors and advocated breaking up media monopolies (His interview with Tim Russert during the primaries). The media cremated him and there was nothing we could do about it. My point being even despite people being willing to fund something that they 'perceive' (rightly or wrongly) to be better , the chances of them being able to get away with it are negligible. Viva le corporate power.
Sorry for the post being somewhat incoherent

Re:Move

[bar-agent]

I stand by our proud tradition of thumbing our noses at our government, poking fun at our ratlike leaders and ignoring laws and any other rules that I don't agree with. This is what makes me an American.

Amen!

Though I always thought he looked more like a mokey...

Re:Move

[SewersOfRivendell]

... I stand by our proud tradition of thumbing our noses at our government, poking fun at our ratlike leaders and ignoring laws and any other rules that I don't agree with. This is what makes me an American.

Gosh, I thought that's what made you a prison-rape victim. Or President.

Re:Move

[fleener]

Your post would be funny if you were playing on vagaries in my grammar, but alas I did instruct you to have sex with "your wife." Given that you've intentionally ignored your marital responsibilities, I have no sympathy for the decay of your marriage.

But to answer you question, the "win" was in breaking free of corporate media enslavement. The RIAA and MPAA do not yet regulate hot monkey love with your wife. That said, it is unfortunate for everyone else involved that your wife is not MILF.

Similar question...

[DanThe1Man]

While on the topic, does anyone know if I buy a HD tunner card now, before they become extinct in July, if it will even work after the flag is issued?

Re:Similar question...

[way2trivial]

yes, a card bought that IGNORES the flag, will continue to do so.

Hope it never shorts out, and they never update the driver or software.... and you don't need your todays AGP card to work in tommorows PCI-E mobo.....

p.s. buy two

Re:Similar question...

[Wesley Felter]

Yes, it will work. In fact, it will work much better than newer, crippled tuners.

Re:Similar question...

[Anonymous Coward]

While on the topic, does anyone know if I buy a HD tunner card now, before they become extinct in July, if it will even work after the flag is issued?

Yes, it will. The broadcast flag is just an extra flag in the signal that indicates to devices that they should not record the content. Devices sold now don't look for the flag.

Re:Similar question...

[lbmouse]

I'm out the door and on the way to the store. Which one should I buy?

Re:Similar question...

[eggoeater]

Does it prevent recording or prevent making copies of a recording?? I though you could still record, you just couldn't burn-it, share-it, etc

Thanks

Re:Similar question...

[alienw]

I wouldn't worry so much about it. By the time your HDTV card becomes obsolete, the protection will have been cracked many times over.

Re:Similar question...

[mefus]

Those cards may no longer be manufactured as of the new year. Good luck finding one.

I got the pcHDTV while it was still available. Not so I could "steal" or "pirate". So I could continue to exercise my Fair Use rights in the face of stupid pet tricks at the FCC.

Re:Similar question...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't crack legislative protection.

Re:Similar question...

[Anonymous Coward]

the protection will have been cracked many times over

Are you aware that the broadcast flag is not copy protection in the Macrovision or CSS style, but a simple flag that devices will have to obey? It's similar to DVD region-encoding in that it's optional (the broadcasters don't have to use it) and transparent.

In a way, you're right, because there will be "factory debugging" backdoors to ignore the flag (just as there are these backdoors to make DVD players ignore the region). But there's no decryption involved.

Re:Similar question...

[babyrat]

or when it breaks buy one from one of the many companies that will be selling cards that ignore the broadcast flag in Canada....

Re:Similar question...

[AdeBaumann]

In a true democracy, you can.

Re:Similar question...

[RevAaron]

Hack teh system!!1

Re:Similar question...

[Renaissance 2K]

In communist Russia, legislative protection cracks you.

pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Dana P'Simer]

I bought the pcHDTV card and am building a Gentoo MythTV box around it, heres a HOW-TO. MythTV can record your programs to DVD if you like as well as many other things.

I am using an AMD 1700+ CPU with 1 GB memory, an nVidia GeForce FX 5700 128MB board. I only have 80+GB space on the system right now (enough for around 5 hrs recording time ) but I will probably upgrade it later this year.

I bought this card because it does not have the broadcast bit and since it was made before July it will not be encumbered with all those restrictions.

I do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[sulli]

Nice HOWTO, but extremely daunting for the typical user. Any chance you could post an iso of the final, properly configured Gentoo + MythTV distribution, with exact system requirements? All of this text file editing scares most users away.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

Better.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Dana P'Simer]

True, the choices I have made are not ones that novice Linux users should chose. However, the idea of posting an ISO of the completed system is really the antithisis of the Gentoo concept. The resulting system would probably not match your hardware configuration exactly and that is what Gentoo is really good at. Optimizing for your hardware and configuration.

There is a distribution that is being worked on that could help people along.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[ERJ]

A nice option to be sure, but it does not support QAM (hdtv over cable). Any ideas on a linux supported HDTV card that does support QAM or if the pcHDTV 3000 will support it in the future?

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[captain igor]

As far as I know, there's no HDTV card for the PC that will handle HD signals over cable here in the US. I've seen them for other systems, such as Australia's, but nothing for the US. You could certainly get an Direct TV system to record off of or just stick with a normal capture card, the hauppage pvr series is good, as it has an onboard mpeg 2 encoder.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Dana P'Simer]

My understanding is that QAM support will be added with a firmware upgrade. Was going to link to a post or faq entry on this subject but, probably due to my link above, the site is hosed. :-P

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[meringuoid]

It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

You mean the ones with complete contempt for the notion of the public domain, who have repeatedly bought extensions to the duration of copyright in order to deny us the free use of our own culture?

Yeah, they're thieves all right, and they're the ones who've brought this situation upon us. It really sucks.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really ... there's been tests which show an optimized Gentoo distro often doesn't run significantly faster than an out-of-the-box mainstream distro. So get off your religious pedestal and make the poor guy an ISO for fuck's sake.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Dan667]

I also run Gentoo, but an easier to set up distribution would be KnoppMyth
http://mysettopbox.tv/

also there are Air2PC cards that can also be used for HDTV like pcHDTV3000, but you will have to wait until April to get one.
http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=33

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[tommck]

It was my understanding that QAM support was just completed with the Air2PC card (a DVB-based card that works in the US) and that QAM support will be added for the pcHDTV 3000 card soon.

T

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[drblunt]

"I do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us."

Sounds like someone hasn't heard of the Betamax Decision or Fair Use law. [Legal Link]

Well, it's either that, or somone is bitter because BitTorrent is blocked through their corporate firewall

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[eggoeater]

Do you know the difference between the Air2PC card and the HD-3000 card?
They're both the same price and HD-3000 has more I/O and open drivers.
Anyone know what the differences are?
Does one have a cool or necessary feature the other lacks?

Thanks.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[mithridate]

I have read up on MythTv and I'm not sure it can do what I want it to do. My understanding of MythTv is it does not work with cable and / or satellite? Is this true? It is pretty much useless to me if I can not record the shows I get through my digital cable.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[alex_podam]

You're in luck! Hauppauge has a great tuner card that supports HDTV over cable. For help getting their cards to work under linux, check out their Linux forums.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

Oh get off your damn horse. You never made a tape of a show and loaned it to a friend? You never stood up during a commercial or changed the channel?

What if the content providers decide that using MythTV is also stealing? Maybe they have a $10/mnth PVR service they'd like you to use. You'd be *stealing* $10/mnth from those guys in that case. Will you dismantle your box?

What if recording to DVD is considered stealing? Will you destroy your collection? Because, even though you are so lily white and pure TODAY, TOMORROW you might loan those unencrypted DVDs to your buddies, so that's POTENTIAL stealing right there. How do you sleep at night?

Sure, you've rationalized it like this: as long as I don't give it to anybody else, and keep it for myself, I'm not stealing. What if the content providers disagree? You're just as guilty as the guys who put it on the internet in their eyes.

I can just imagine if they outlaw MythTV or pre-broadcast-flag cards. You'll sputter and fume and say "they are taking my rights away!" Then you'll be over here with those of us who've been saying that all along!

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[enrico_suave]

"I have read up on MythTv and I'm not sure it can do what I want it to do. My understanding of MythTv is it does not work with cable and / or satellite? Is this true? It is pretty much useless to me if I can not record the shows I get through my digital cable."

It works fine with digital cable or satellite. You still use yoru existing set top box, run the video/audio out from the cable box to the video/audio in on the tuner/encoder card and use (depending on the STB in questin) an IRBlaster or serial cable so the PC/software can control the digital cable box/satellite box i.e. change the channel at the appropriate time automagically.

E.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[iminplaya]

It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

Don't try to blame people who like to share. The people who think they have a right to control what we see and hear, and claim ownership of things they can't really own are the real thieves. IP is government authorized thievery. It robs the public to benefit a few. The "innovation" spin is a LIE! Artists don't need IP to make a living, and people who buy other people's IP "rights" are buying stolen property. The whole concept is despicable(as bad as real estate speculation). As for this guy, he can buy a brand new Betamax.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

MythTV can be setup to work with any IR transmitter that works work LIRC (and possibly others too, basically any program you've got that will change the channels on your box with the number as an argument). Then, it's simply a matter of having MythTV send the channel number via the IR transmitter to the cable box. I have a Dish satellite system hooked up to my box and it works great, especially since I can get the EPG from zap2it. That way I just use MythTV's EPG instead of the satellite to schedule recordings and see what's playing.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

I applaud you decision to respect the copyright laws, and not support piracy. On the other hand, I think you are very wrong to think DRM controls have anything to do with piracy. They don't stop anyone from copying a disk, and they are a mere speed bump for anyone who wants to rip content. DRM related laws are not aimed at the lawless, they are useless for stopping piracy. DRM is all about content control for people who obey the laws. Their purpose is to prevent you from moving your already purchased content to a newer format, or displaying it in multiple locations. They are about price fixing in different regions. I'm sorry you have been fooled into believe the smokescreen about piracy. Content producers are not stupid enough to believe that DRM will stop piracy, it is just an excuse.

To make a second point, while I do not violate copyright laws, I think the dirty hands of the content publishers give them little right to complain about copyright violations. Copyright was a two-sided deal, and they have welshed on their half. If copyrights do not enter the public domain and copy-written works are not available for sale at a reasonable price, then the original agreement has been broken and their is no reason why they should have exclusive rights to publish a work. Just because they bribed politicians with the money they made with their government sponsored monopoly, does not make it ethical to fail to fulfill their half of the deal. Of course, corporations are rarely ethical, and generally will do whatever the law allows them to, including change those laws to make more profit. If someone wants to violate these unfair copyright laws, hack content publishers bank accounts, or steal all their staplers, I say "enjoy and good luck."

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[toggles]

Can't help you with an iso, but we install them for you http://www.shadysidesupercomputingcenter.com/mythi nstall.html

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[mithridate]

That makes sense. So unless my box allows for a wired connection to the PC I need to make sure the IR sensor / sender can see eachother and I am good to go.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

There is really no point to having QAM. Most cable providers are or will be encrypting the stream.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[hikerhat]

Right. 99% of the content being downloaded consists of 40 year old mickey mouse cartoons and m*a*s*h re-runs. I bet every slashdotter is scouring the interweb for a good rip of Citizen Kane right now.

No. The people with contempt for paying for the _latest_ content (whatever you last saw on TRL) are directly responsible for the publishing industry protecting what is legally theirs.

Nice job parroting "Slashdot Juvinile Rationalization #4 for Why I'm Thieving Scum (+5 guaranteed)" though. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to find rationalizations 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10... in other +5 slashdot comments.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[SiliconEntity]

Keep in mind that the pcHDTV card, and the Broadcast Flag in general, only works with Over-The-Air TV. It does not work with cable or satellite systems.

The last statistics I saw indicated that less than 20% of Americans don't have cable or satellite. This means that the BF will affect only that small minority who watches digital TV and receives it over the air. It doesn't affect cable viewers, and it doesn't affect satellite viewers.

As far as I know, HBO generally does not go over the air. That's because it's illegal to encrypt OTA TV. The BF is supposed to require equipment to sort of pretend that certain signals are encrypted and treat them as if they are protected. So maybe HBO could eventually use OTA broadcasts, if the BF is successful. But at this time, the BF is irrelevant to HBO.

I don't happen to live in a metropolitan area that has HDTV broadcasters. There are only a couple of TV stations even within reach of my small town, so pretty much everybody here has cable. The BF has no effect on me, and the pcHDTV card would be useless for me. Only a small percentage of people are affected.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, genius, talking about corporations extending copyright is meaningless in this context. The content we are talking about is HDTV broadcast television, which last time I checked, wasn't around in 1923. I doubt anyone wants to circumvent the broadcast flag so they can record Steamboat Mickey.

Yeah, the corporations lobbied to change the rules. So lobby against them the next time they try to do this.

But don't write about how the corporations are evil and produce junk etc and then bemoan that you can't freely record, store, and distribute that junk that those evil corporations spent millions of dollars to produce.

You want to defeat the MPAA? Stop going to the movies every damn weekend like a pavlovian dog.

You want to defeat the RIAA? Stop buying CDs of the junk you hear on the radio or see on MTV(2).

The world isn't going to end if you're not on the cusp of the latest pop-culture trend.

There is culture other than pop culture.

THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
http://www.pastabagel.com

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[boy_afraid]

Question: Even though it will accept OTA HDTV signals, couldn't I just get the Cable decoder box to output the decoded singal into a "Channel" that the card will understand and then build my PVR around it?

I want to be able to record all my HD and non-HD channels, including SD HBO and HD HBO.

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[Anonymous Coward]

Copyright was a two-sided deal, and they have welshed on their half.
Perhaps it would have raised more of a stink if they'd niggered or kiked on the deal instead? The derogatory term you used insinuates that a race of people are cheats; I'll leave it to students of etymology to fill in the blanks.
Not getting at you personally; Clinton had to apologise for using the same phrase. :)

Re:pcHDTV 3000 is a Great option!

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I'm part Welsh so it's OK, right? I hereby apologize for besmirching the names of all Welsh who may have been offended by this remark.

Buy offshore

[Neil Watson]

Can't you just by cards made offshore that will not honor the broadcast flag? If there is a market someone will build them.

Re:Buy offshore

[TrippTDF]

Can't you just by cards made offshore that will not honor the broadcast flag? If there is a market someone will build them.

Wont there be software uh... "patches" that will get around the flag?

Re:Buy offshore

[Wesley Felter]

And customs will seize them at the border. Nice try, though.

Re:Buy offshore

[EnronHaliburton2004]

If you can receive a broadcast onto your computer, what's to stop you from removing the broadcast flag?

This is the flaw with just about any DRM scheme... eventually someone will develop a tool to remove the DRM. It's just a matter of time.

Re:Buy offshore

[Cpt_Kirks]

Really?

They can't stop millions of illegal aliens or hundreds of tons of drugs, but they can catch a container of tuner cards?

Re:Buy offshore

[Atzanteol]

I believe the hardware itself is going to honor the bit. May not be much one can do from software...

Re:Buy offshore

[Wesley Felter]

Hey, if they stop serial cables, why not HDTV tuners?

Re:Buy offshore

[Kent Recal]

When smuggling tuner cards through an airport beware the tuner card sensing, uh, tuner-dogs!

Worse, when smuggling them cards by sea beware the navy seals and their specially trained tuner-tuna.

Re:Buy offshore

[Momoru]

Customs really does not check for things like this...just give it a shot sometime, order some Absinthe or perscription drugs or whatever from another country, and it has a 90% of making it here untouched. There is simply too much mail, and as long as it doesn't look suspicious it will get through. High Dev video cards are really WAY low in terms of seizure priority, when there are weapons, drugs etc to worry about.

Re:Buy offshore

[northcat]

I think the poster is trying to ask for a legal way.

Re:Buy offshore

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Right, but at some point I'll be able to store the broadcast with the bit onto my hard drive. Or, if I can receive a stream onto my computer, I'll be able to record it in some fashion.

It's only a matter of time before someone develops a program to remove the bit from the stream.

The hardware can't prevent me from viewing all content which does not have a flag. I need some way to view my home movies or other unprotected content on my own TV.

If I can't view unflagged content, I won't buy the hardware.

Re:Buy offshore

[RetroGeek]

I believe the hardware itself is going to honor the bit. May not be much one can do from software...

Unless the hardware ONLY uses logic gates, then the hardware is controlled by software (via a BIOS on the card).

So hack the BIOS, change it, and there you go. And even if the BIOS cannot be updated, you can always replace the ROM chip (may require some soldering though).

Is this a lot of trouble? Yes. But so is anything worthwhile.

Re:Buy offshore

[rincebrain]

A) Patches like that would be illegal.

B) Patches like that would, by the law's own restrictions, be a bitch to do, since the things are mandated to be highly tamper-resistant.

With that said, I predict a year until it's cracked.

Re:Buy offshore

[Anonymous Coward]

UPS only knew to hold that because Lik-Sang put a restricted part number on the box.

What's to stop a company from printing 'Definately not a pirate HD Tuner, nothing here but us cards that support the broadcast flag?' on the box? It's not like they open all these parcels up to check what's in 'em.

Re:Buy offshore

[Kevin143]

Also, what if some manufactures that were marketing to the techie/overclocker/modder market made it unreasonably easy to alter the hardware? Something like soldering two easy points together on the circuit board.

Re:Buy offshore

[MasTRE]

> They can't stop millions of illegal aliens or hundreds of tons of drugs, but they can catch a container of tuner cards?

What are these aliens you speak of, are they a different species from a different planet? And you say they are somehow illegal, too? Oh, you mean non-Americans that don't have the legal right to be in the US. Nice, real nice name for them.

No wonder people around the globe think us to be wacky (at best) - if they ain't from here, goddamit they're aliens! It would be funny if it weren't so fuggin sad...

But your point is not missed. However, you would have to become member of the piracy underground to participate in this hobby - all highly illegal, and a waste of one's time. Much like the people currently ripping off satellite. The problem with this is that, in true American fashion, it's the completely ass-backwards way of going about something - this used to be a right, we let them pull one over us because we are lazy and inept of action (just like they want us to be), and the ones that want this are now committing crimes under the new law to get it; the same energy should have been expended in thwarting these laws from being passed. A vicious circle, which leads to nowhere but insanity.

Re:Buy offshore

[JaxGator75]

Meh....

You go ahead and rip, patch, install and hack. I'll just DL it the next day after someone else has done all the ripping, patching, hacking and uploading...

/lazy revolutionary

Re:Buy offshore

[gabebear]

You have a very good point, I think this law was very poorly thought out. HDTV's broadcast flag is just an extra bit, it is ignored by all current HDTV equipment. You don't even need an HDTV tuner card to recieve HDTV. The folks over at GNU Radio have gotten a programmable radio to recieve HDTV. Does this law say anything about non-HDTV equipment that happens to be able to recieve HDTV signals? If not then why not just sell these HDTV cards as A/D converters.

Re:Buy offshore

[Fallingcow]

"What are these aliens you speak of, are they a different species from a different planet? And you say they are somehow illegal, too? Oh, you mean non-Americans that don't have the legal right to be in the US. Nice, real nice name for them."

Yeah, the English dictionary thinks it's a good name for them, too.

Dumbass troll.

Re:Buy offshore

[Taladar]

we just start filing anti-trust suits, and let the government dismantle them.

You mean "let them pay the government to do nothing until they are bankrupt from too much bribes"?

Re:Buy offshore

[Anonymous Coward]

if they ain't from here, goddamit they're aliens!

Uh, that's what the word means, yeah.

Re:Buy offshore

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like modchips and pre-modified game consoles? Both of those are illegal thanks to the DMCA but I know several people who have ordered them from Canada and have never had any problems. Want to bet that the enforcement of the broadcast flag will be the same way?

Re:Buy offshore

[__aailob1448]

*Millions* of illegal aliens? I'm quite sure less than a million paperless immigrants come to the u.s every year. Also, profit margin on tuner cards is hundreds of orders of magnitude smaller than that of say heroin or cocaine so there is much less incentive to smuggle them. I agree with your main point though, "free" tuners will remain available just as modchips are.

Re:Buy offshore

[Cpt_Kirks]

"Paperless Immigrants"?

My, what a PC term! We are talking about individuals who violate the borders of the U.S. illegally.

In Arizona alone, the border patrol catches 1,400 illegal border crossers, over a million a year. And that's just the people they catch! Like drugs, they probably catch less than one in ten. Since they don't exactly stand up for census counting, we really don't know how many.

We watch for terrorists in all legal crossings, but I wonder how many just walk across the border?

Re:Buy offshore

[Tower]

Well, you have to admit - it beats "Damned foreigners!" That's the great part about the English language (in any flavor/flavour) - "There's more than one way to say it!"(TM)

Buy an HD TV tuner card

[HeaththeGreat]

Just buy an ATI TV tuner card before its too late.

Re:Buy an HD TV tuner card

[DaHat]

The ATI card is a joke, it doesn't have a built in MPEG decoder, instead that work gets offloaded to your CPU.

Re:Buy an HD TV tuner card

[Anonymous Coward]

The ATI card is a joke, it doesn't have a built in MPEG decoder, instead that work gets offloaded to your CPU.

The pcHDTV works the same way...

How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag?

[00squirrel]

Move to Canada!

/ducks

Hmm..

[modifried]

.. buy from Canada? :)

Re:Hmm..

[DaHat]

Better to buy from Korea, they also use 8VSB for DTV transmission over the air.

Avoid any COFDM devices as that is the European standard and would not work here in the states unless it also did 8VSB.

Re:Hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh.. as does Canada, last I checked...

Re:Hmm..

[legirons]

Don't buy HDTV?

Seriously, the only way these companies are not going to lose a boatload of R&D money from HDTV is if we all forget the restrictions, forget who we're dealing with, and buy new TVs.

In my case at least, it's not going to happen. I'll skip this round of the upgrade cycle, just like with DVDs. The old stuff is still around, and newer, more open stuff will replace it before it becomes inconvenient.

If passive entertainment means eroding of the right to copy, then it's not worth it.

Don't worry...

[chrispyman]

Wasn't this a worry when they first came out with DVDs, that you lost your ability to "archive" them? I'm sure that given some time, people will be able to easily defeat the broadcast flag with relative ease. Although the legality of doing so is questionable at best...

Necessary Purchases

[Anonymous Coward]

How to best prepare.

Stock up on:
Canned Food
Water
Yacht Batteries
Guns
Ammunition

Re:Necessary Purchases

[maxwell demon]

Stock up on:
Canned Food

Spam? I get more than enough in my mail.

Water

Well, nothing against Aqua, but I don't have a Mac.

Yacht Batteries

Don't you think a real UPS will work better?

Guns
Ammunition

Ah, now I understand. By playing FPS games all the time, you don't have any need to record TV contents (because you'll have no time to watch it anyway), and therefore are not harmed by the broadcast flag ...

Re:Necessary Purchases

[isorox]

You missed one:

Stock up on:
Canned Food
Water
Yacht Batteries
Guns
Ammunition
Porn

The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[doormat]

link from Ars Technica

Unfortunately they're fighting it on a technicality - that Congress did not give the FCC explicit power to create the broadcast flag, and thusly they have no authority themselves to create it.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[ellelle]

If you're in the SF Bay area, there's an EFF event on endangered gadgets tonight. RSVP and bring your checkbook.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Void_Ptr]

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This issue isn't a technicality but a very valid point with regard to legislation and powers delegated by the U.S. Constitution.

Our goverment is (and should be) set up in such a way so that, when in doubt, the people have right of way.

This is not only an issue of the FCC overstepping its authority, but a fundamental question of what the federal government can, and cannot do.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

thats not a "technicality". that goes to the base from which the power the FCC uses is derived from.
it also goes into executive/legislative power overlaps and the judiciary loves this sort of argument because they can slap the executive branch with a big stick and act all smug and superior while thumbing their nose at everyone at the same time.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Intelectual Property is not a thing.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[doormat]

True. I guess what I had meant by technicality was they werent arguing whether or not the broadcast flag is good or evil, rather that the FCC didnt have the authority to make it in the first place.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because law is about authority, not good and evil, and saying "We'd like to complain about this because it's evil" would mean you'd be laughed out of the court.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.betanews.com/article/Judges_Scold_FCC_O ver_Broadcast_Flag/1109095315/

Judge scolds FCC, score one for the good guys.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[doormat]

Yea, but this is the government. They're not supposed to be evil (thats a whole debate there). Corporations drive for profit, and if they are evil, oh well, thats a side effect. Governments should be watching out for their citizens - whats good for the most people... "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"... you get the point.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay people to protect your right to steal things.

That's called taxes.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking troll.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[dcgaber]

Yeah, real unfortunate that they are going for the best argument, and the one that particular court is likely to be most sympathetic too. Article I of the Constitution is not a mere technicality. BTW, I took a class from one of the Commissioner's councils (the commissioner voted to approve the flag), and he also thought this is the best argument to overturn the flag (but I am sure his legal knowledge is shaky).

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't this on an episode of Hardcastle and McCormick?

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[Symbiosis]

Agreed. It's more a matter of using the right tool for the job. "Can" you fight in courts, "should" you fight with votes.

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[triznitch]

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_02.php#00335 6

Re:The EFF is fighting the broadcast flag

[ewieling]

I think we can all agree that Tenth Amendment hasn't actually had any force for a very long time. The federal government pretty the states do what it wants one way or another.

Broadcast flag preparation...

[jar240]

Two words: rabbit ears.

Chris

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[crow]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The broadcast flag is about restricting the use of what you can pick up with an antenna. It's designed to stop you from recording broadcast TV when the broadcaster decides to set the flag in the transmission.

This has nothing to do with cable or satellite.

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's only on all digital systems. The "rabbit ears" remark was valid. The broadcast flag has no effect on analog transmissions that can be recorded with analog equipment.

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[Anonymous Coward]

wrong. two words are:

burn television.

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[fracai]

hammer down

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[enrico_suave]

"That's only on all digital systems. The "rabbit ears" remark was valid. The broadcast flag has no effect on analog transmissions that can be recorded with analog equipment."

What do you think happens once all of the TV stations convert to digital and stop broadcasting the analog stations? Your analog TV will be obsolete, along with your analog loop hole.

e.

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[EnronHaliburton2004]

What do you think happens once all of the TV stations convert to digital and stop broadcasting the analog stations?

Fewer people will watch TV. That's a good thing from many angles.

The TV stations will lose a signifigant portion of their consumer base.

Who's going to be the first station to say "Yes, I'll switch to HDTV and lose the 5-20% of my customers to the competing stations. Please! Me! Choose me!"

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[DaveJay]

What do you think happens once all of the TV stations convert to digital and stop broadcasting the analog stations?

I've got a whole idea for a novel that will answer this question. Luckily, I'm too lazy to write it.

Re:Broadcast flag preparation...

[mike5904]

You can just get a digital tuner/decoder meant for use with your TV, which will provide you with an analog component video signal that can in turn be fed right into a computer.

As long as you can still hear it or see it, you can duplicate it. If you have access to the signal itself, in any form, even better. You many not get a *perfect* copy, but it will certainly be close.

mirror dot

[booyah]

cause the site was already melting when i tried to click it

mirror

Stop watching TV

[suso]

Given that there are only a few months left to make purchasing decisions, how best can one prepare for the advent of the broadcast flag?

Follow these simple steps:

1. Unplug TV from wall and other compontents
   
2. Open exterior window
   
3. Clear area outside below open window.
   
4. Pick up TV (you might need a friend's help)
   
5. Throw TV out of open window
   

Re:Stop watching TV

[Danimoth]

Only one of these steps is really needed, and that the last one.

Re:Stop watching TV

[Anonymous Coward]

You Are Being Flamed Because [ ] You posted a Religious Thread [ ] You posted a accusation with no proof [ ] You posted a thread containing 1337 talk [ ] You posted a me > u thread [ ] you posted a worthless offensive thread [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread [x] You committed crimes against pork biproducts [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message [ ] You haven't read the FAQ [ ] You don't know which forum to post in [x] You just plain suck [ ] You posted false information [x] You posted something totally uninteresting [ ] You doubleposted [ ] YOU POSTED A MESSAGE ALL WRITTEN IN CAPS [ ] You posted racist crap [x] I don't like your tone of voice [ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums [ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd. [x] Your parents are related [ ] You and your wife are related [ ] You dated my sister [ ] You dated my brother [ ] You made love to my dog In Punishment, You Must: [x] Give up your AOL Internet account [ ] STFU & GTFO [ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor [ ] Actually post something relevant [ ] Read the f****** FAQ [ ] Call Bush and inform him he sucks [ ] Go to your room with no supper [ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum [ ] Go stand in the middle of a Highway [x] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards [ ] Take a bath in bleach [x] Drink out of a spitoon [ ] Eat my ass [ ] Grind a rail on your sack [ ] All of the above In Closing, I'd Like to Say: [ ] 1 R 1337 [x] Pwned [ ] GG no re [x] Blow me [ ] Get a life [ ] Me > u [x] Never post again [ ] I pity your dog [ ] Go to hell [ ] Your IQ must be 7 [x] Take your s*** somewhere else [ ] STFU & GTFO [ ] Learn to post or f*** off [ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment [ ] STFU botter [ ] All of the above

Re:Stop watching TV

[Anonymous Coward]

You Are Being Flamed Because

[ ] You posted a Religious Thread
[ ] You posted a accusation with no proof
[ ] You posted a thread containing 1337 talk
[ ] You posted a me > u thread
[ ] you posted a worthless offensive thread
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[x] You committed crimes against pork biproducts
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[ ] You haven't read the FAQ
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in
[x] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
[x] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] You doubleposted
[ ] YOU POSTED A MESSAGE ALL WRITTEN IN CAPS
[ ] You posted racist crap
[x] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums
[ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd.
[x] Your parents are related
[ ] You and your wife are related
[ ] You dated my sister
[ ] You dated my brother
[ ] You made love to my dog

In Punishment, You Must:

[x] Give up your AOL Internet account
[ ] STFU & GTFO
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Read the f****** FAQ
[ ] Call Bush and inform him he sucks
[ ] Go to your room with no supper
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[x] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards
[ ] Take a bath in bleach
[x] Drink out of a spitoon
[ ] Eat my ass
[ ] Grind a rail on your sack
[ ] All of the above

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[ ] 1 R 1337
[x] Pwned
[ ] GG no re
[x] Blow me
[ ] Get a life
[ ] Me > u
[x] Never post again
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] Go to hell
[ ] Your IQ must be 7
[x] Take your s*** somewhere else
[ ] STFU & GTFO
[ ] Learn to post or f*** off
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] STFU botter
[ ] All of the above

Re:Stop watching TV

[sycotic]

My 32inch widescreen wouldn't fit out my window :)

Re:Stop watching TV

[Anonymous Coward]

You Are Being Flamed Because

[x] You are a loser who can't be bothered to preview your cut'n'paste "witticism"

meh

[JeanBaptiste]

like any other type of restrictive technology, 95% of the people won't care, the other 5% of us folks will find cheap and easy ways around it. Yeah it won't be legal, but the cops only care if you are selling them or distributing them in large quantities (on the internets).

Nothing different anti-CD copying measures, anti VHS copying measures, anti video-game copying measures, and so on.

Nothing new here, move along

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you bet people will care when they can't record something they want to keep like they've become used to.

I can understand blocking recording of Pay Per View on-demand movies, but I'm certain that the broadcast flag will be abused to cover other shows.

Until the public retaliates. What cable company wants to deal with people complaining they can't record $show?

Maybe money would be best spent on creating and mailing out a "Your Fair Use Rights of Music and Television" to everyone in the country, outlining what they are allowed to do by law, and where their rights are being limited by various technologies.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that you mention CDs... anyone knows how to defeat copy protection on Iron Maiden's latest album? I was going to buy it - but decided to look into a way to make a copy instead, BECAUSE it has anti-copy protection. I mean, if they treat fans like thieves, why disappoint them?!

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

download it off soulseek and burn it to CD

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you give the general populace too much credit.

They might care, but not enough to do anything useful about it.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

That's very true. But some of us are sick of being "criminals."

Old Hardware?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "take action" suggestion is a good one, but I don't think that's what you're looking for, as to effect any real change you have to get the entire sheep-populace to mobilize with you and we all saw how well that worked out with Macrovision, Region Coding, CD Copy Protection, PATRIOT, etc, etc.

Since a PVR is fairly "Self-contained," what's to stop you building something simple and letting it run "forever." Buy a couple of tuner cards and hold on to them in the event one breaks, stick them in a well-ventilated, well-cooled Linux box, run a minimal kernel with only that you need for MythTV, then as long as your hardware stays up there shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't use that in the future?

- DRFSR

lemme get this straight.

[ColPanic]

The guy asks you a computer question, and you suggest he moves to a different country? Bunch of fucking trolls.

Re:lemme get this straight.

[nomadic]

If you don't like it, move to another forum.

Re:lemme get this straight.

[Anonymous Coward]

The government is going to do what it wants cause the people are just peons under their control. Don't like what the government is doing...you have two choices. Do something about it...or don't. And since you can't fight the government and win....you should leave. If it's a big enough issue.

I left the US...and if Canada signs on to missile defense...I'll leave Canada. I've heard Sweden is very nice.

Ween yourself from the Toob.

[Speare]

Honestly. I haven't had a TV/Cable connection for the past seven years. I haven't missed it at all. All my friends drone on and on about the latest episode of "Star Trek: the Berman Tragedy" or "Friends II: Las Vegas," but I honestly don't envy their ability to keep track of the latest shows. So-called news regarding ideas like "Survivor: Soyuz," Martha Stewart's version of "The Apprentice," and sequels to "The Simple Life" just enforce my resolve to not care about television at all.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[aBlooMoon]

I too, barely watch television anymore, but if I am so motivated, I'd like to have the right to do so...when and how I wish. Neither abstinence nor moving from the country is a solution that should be entertained en mass.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[SCHecklerX]

For someone who doesn't care, you sure can remember the most recent pop shows pretty well.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I too went years without the evil glowing box. At least three. In that time we didn't even own a TV. (My playstation was jury rigged into our ATI all-in-wonder card.)

But then we had a kid. When your wife it stuck at home, it only takes a few weeks for her to realize that there is only so much going on on the net in a given day.

Now, we did get satellite, and with it a DVR package. Fast forwarding through commercials, and being able to stockpile shows for days when I'm sick at home have eliminated my 2 major complaints about the tube.

The stockpiling is important. Most of my favorite cable channels... ok who am I kidding... the only 2 channels I watch tend to run the interesting stuff in marathons, with a long dry season in between. While I only average a few hours of TV a week, having 8 episodes of Star Trek, and another 6 "Tales of the Gun" are really handy for being home with the flu.

And having 5 or 6 hours of "Sesame Street" and "Jay Jay the Jet Plane" canned and ready to play is a life saver when you have a toddler. It means you can play their favorite video without it drilling your mind to the point you can recite the dialog by heart.

And to be fair, she is evenly split between wanting TV, mom and dad time, and bringing a book over demanding we read it to her. If anything, she prefers the books.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[YrWrstNtmr]

Well...if you concentrate on on the junk, I can see your point. Thankfully, it is not ALL crap. History channel, NatGeo and a few others make up for a LOT of "The Apprentice:Mike Tyson Edition" and "The Simpleton Life".

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[Kiryat Malachi]

Those of us who aren't gigantic assholes to our coworkers often actually have conversations with them. Sometimes, in those conversations, believing us to be interested, the names of current popular shows will come up. Odd how that goes, isn't it?

You'll never understand how saturated our culture is in popular TV until you cut the cord for a while and realize - you *still* know what's on, even though you're trying not to.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[IANAAC]

I watch TV ALL THE TIME, just not live.

I consistently download 8 shows a week, ranging from Sci-Fi to comedy, to drama.

Then I stream them to my PrismIQ. I have plenty of entertainment throughout the week, but feel no need to woprk around anybody else's schedule but my own. And I don't see commercials, to boot.

It probably won't last, but it works for me now.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[DaveJay]

Not much to do? What about building a dollhouse out of balsa wood? Or learning to play the Ukulele?

I'm not being critical; I know raising kids is hard, and my wife and I are about to have twins, so I'll soon be learning the reality instead of considering the theoretical.

That said, TV -is- a timesuck, and if you stop watching, you'll spend a lot of time looking around bored...so then all you need to do is say to yourself "well, perhaps I should start a task that I normally don't have time for, and see how it goes."

Heck, that's how I ended up remodeling my bathroom...

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wanted to say, you will never believe how true this is. I have not owned a TV in about 9 years. No TV Card, no Set, nothing. I would say, counting the times I might have to watch the TV at a friends place, I might consume about an hour of TV a week, and it's almost always news.

I can't describe to you, as the parent said, how absolutely saturated our culture is with television. You don't realize it if you are a normal TV viewer, but I'd say somewhere between 70 and 80 percent of all (non work related) conversations at my place of employment revolve around TV. That's kind of disturbing.

Anyway because of things like this, I can easily name most of the new popular shows out there right now, even though I've never seen 1 frame of footage from them. Throw in the fact that alot of "headlines" will mention things like "Some guy from American Idol said something Insignificant" then it's really easy for a non TV viewer to be kind of up to date.

As an aside, I really can not explain how totally and utterly bizarre it is (to me anyway), to go to a friends place with some pals and watch everyone staring blankly at the TV. It's kind of creepy. If you leave the TV off, people will talk, make jokes, share experiences, but when the TV comes on, it's like an intellectual and social ghost town. I usually just leave (not to be an elitist, just because it's so boring).

There is so much more to do with free time than consume TV. It's like the least common denominator of entertainment. I've begun to realize how much more productive I am, just in general, than my TV watching peers. While I sit down and build a website, or pick up a little bit of spanish, do some experiment cooking, or build a speaker system for myself, they're watching TV.

Mod me down all you want, but TV is a waste of life.

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[cliffski]

Good news for authors i guess. Nobody can prevent me enjoying good-ol paper wherever I want.
Actually I have to confess this topic has really shocked me. I live in the UK, and I've never even heard of this before. I must have missed previous slashdot stories on it. I would go absolutely ape if they tried to introduce this crap in the UK, although there only 1 channel (ch4) over here worth watching anyway.
More people need to be made aware of the issue, because if even a geek like me who keeps an eye out for this has never heard of it, you can bet 95% of US viewers who will be affected have NO idea either.(even though I'm in the UK).

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[slashdot_commentator]

...And you've also missed shows like Highlander, Buffy, Angel, Smallville, Stargate SG-1, 24, Deadwood, Farscape, South Park, Lost, Simpsons (I don't watch it), yada yada... (And I know I'm still missing some noteworthy entertainment...)

...But were spared the heartbreak of seeing Cupid (1999) and Firefly killed, or see Ally McBeal or Dawson's Creek crater after the first season...

...And miss being informed by programs like Frontline, 60 Minutes, NOW, those documentary channels (Discovery, History), and primary sources like CSPAN... (Didn't realize how close Canada came to breaking up until I watched it live...)

I honestly don't envy their ability to keep track of the latest shows.

...and why admire someone who can name all the US senators, or the Periodic Table of Elements, or the moons of Jupiter & Saturn (all 93?), or the capitals of all the nations of a continent? If you can't directly apply it, its no different than being able to recall sports statistics, or TV episodes. TV entertainment can be a form of cultural enhancement, just like novels and plays. The trick is finding the worthwhile stuff.

For me, I haven't had cable for years. But as long as I have the Internet and recappers, I'll always be able to enjoy the best of what little TV has to offer...

Here may be a cool topic. What TV episodes actually changed your perspective on how you view or approach life?

For myself, I found ST:TNG Tapestry, Stargate SG-1 Absolute Power left an impression, as did ST:TOS Let This be your Last Battlefield if only that some people really think there's a difference whether you're black on the left side or the right side...

Come to think of it, Americans might have something to learn from ST:TOS Squire of Gothos (Its maturity in action, not absolute power that defines character or refinement), and ST:TOS Devil in the Dark (Think of different cultures as different races; stop looking to destroy or dominate the other).

Re:Ween yourself from the Toob.

[Anonymous Coward]

funny. you know all these shows names and tv personalities, yet profess not to watch or care about television at all.

i'm unvincible!

[ackthpt]

I'll just hook a wire recorder up to my B&W Dumont TV and my Channel Master Rotor Antenna I'll be all set!

maybe I should break down and get one of those newfangled video to LP recorders...

Re:i'm unvincible!

[Anonymous Coward]

Unvincible? I can't let this go.

Un - usually means opposite of
vincible - meaning capable of being defeated

What you meant was invincible. Dont they teach grade school english anymore? Or have the general masses finally started posting on /.?

The usage note on the prefix 'un' from dictonary.com is particulary of interest here: Usage Note: The negative prefix un- attaches chiefly to adjectives (unable, unclean, unequal, unripe, unsafe) and participles used as adjectives (unfeeling, unflinching, unfinished, unsaid), and less frequently to nouns (unbelief, unconcern, unrest). Sometimes the noun form of an adjective with the un- prefix has the prefix in-, as in inability, inequality, injustice, and instability. A few stems appear with both prefixes with distinctions of meaning. Inhuman means "brutal, monstrous," while unhuman means "not of human form, superhuman."When used with adjectives, un- often has a sense distinct from that of non-. Non- picks out the set of things that are not in the category denoted by the stem to which it is attached, whereas un- picks out properties unlike those of the typical examples of the category. Thus nonmilitary personnel are those who are not members of the military, whereas someone who is unmilitary is unlike a typical soldier in dress, habits, or attitudes.

All this ranting and I'm afraid to post as other than AC. Perhaps I missed the joke?? Just go ahead and mod me as a Troll, my AC karma can hack it!

Never fear! Underwhelmed is here!

[Anonymous Coward]

" Given that there are only a few months left to make purchasing decisions, how best can one prepare for the advent of the broadcast flag?""

Not worry about it.

1-I doubt it's going to be widely available come July.

2-It's a bad idea that's going to quickly be realized as a bad idea.

I doubt it's going to last long, especially for programming people pay for.

Re:Never fear! Underwhelmed is here!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. It will quickly fade away like the DMCA has.

Oh, wait...

Don't hold your breath

[Anonymous Coward]

You ask for some reasonable things, but what you will never get is the end of change and obsolescence in an electronic product.

wait and see what the courts decide?

[oneiros27]

The DC Circuit Court isn't so sure the FCC has the right to make that rule.

I have no idea what you can do to try to sway the judicial system, as it's only 2 of 3 so far.

I guess you could contribute to the folks trying to take the FCC to court over this.

Re:wait and see what the courts decide?

[Anonymous Coward]

The DC Circuit Court ...

I looked there, but I don't see any cicuits that help bypass the flag.

Re:wait and see what the courts decide?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two of the three judges on the District of Columbia Circuit panel ...

Look on the circuit panel, just under the main fuse.

Good news for Mac Owners

[thatshortkid]

I found myself asking this same question, too. So I put the question to the makers of the EyeTV 500. This is their response:

"EyeTV 500 does not support the broadcast flag. Units bought before July 2005 will never support the broadcast flag. We will not update EyeTV 500 units bought before then to support the flag.

Thus, your EyeTV 500 will never support the broadcast flag. It will ignore flags, and not use DRM for any content. That means you'll have the maximum freedom possible with its recordings."

It's a little pricey, but it does the compression on the box. I don't have digital cable yet, but I may buy this come May/June just for the fuck of it since pre-July box prices will probably go up dramatically come July 2 (on the black market, of course, since the law bans all inter-state trade of these devices).

Re:Good news for Mac Owners

[Compugoat.biz]

I'd love to have one of those, but my Mac is too pricey to dedicate to recording TV. If it worked with Linux I would definitely buy it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't, so I am getting a pcHDTV card isntead.

Re:Good news for Mac Owners

[amorsen]

It's a little pricey, but it does the compression on the box.

Are you sure it doesn't simply pass on the already-compressed stream? It would be a bit pointless to decompress and then recompress.

Re:Good news for Mac Owners

[C0deM0nkey]

Note: I posted virtually the same comment above, differences in italics...

And what are you going to do when your $HARDWARE_OF_TODAY fries itself, hmmm? It will happen eventually and unless something has changed you will be forced to purchase $HARDWARE_OF_TOMORROW that is broadcast-flag aware and you will be screwed.

Don't discount it because its marxist but: unless the proletariat (the common man) rises up against the owners of the means of production (the corporations who control the "content" distribution channels) and wrest those means of production from them (via burners, electronic distribution, etc.) this type of breach of rights will continue to repeat itself. We already own the means of production (burners, GarageBand software, etc.) what we increasingly lack is legal access to a distribution channel.

Marx warned that the owners of the means of production, when faced with innovation that threatened their monopolies, would turn to the law in order to secure their control and to maintain the status quo. At some point, unless something drastically changes, you will be forced to ask yourself whether the right to unfettered access to content is worth the risk of significant fines and jail time. It will happen; at this point, only a significant revolution against the "owners" can prevent it. Something has to gain the ear of those who are supposed to represent the people and fight for the rights of the people. Unfortunately, I do not believe that most of us, myself included, will be willing to pay the costs now for the potential benefits later. It will be Voltaire made manifest in ugly, vibrant, living color.

I, myself, am caught in the middle. I do not condone the unlicensed use of materials created by others - the people who created those materials deserve to get paid even if it is a mere fraction of what they should receive. I also do not condone the "limitless" copyrights granted by our (US) laws. So...I choose not to play the game - my wife and I spend our money elsewhere and, at least for myself, in the hope that revenues will continue to drop to the point where "piracy" is no longer the sole scapegoat and the various industries are forced to change or die. My wife and I do not purchase much music any more (1 - 3 CDs annually, maybe); we do not subscribe to cable or watch commercial television (no big loss on either front). We do purchase movies - primarily because I can "try before I buy" by renting movies or seeing movies in a "B" theater before I make the decision to purchase; furthermore, the cost of purchasing a DVD is now cheaper than the cost of two movie theater tickets, one drink and one popcorn so we tend to wait for movies to come out to DVD before going to the theater.

Re:Good news for Mac Owners

[ozric99]

"EyeTV 500 does not support the broadcast flag. Units bought before July 2005 will never support the broadcast flag. We will not update EyeTV 500 units bought before then to support the flag.

Thus, your EyeTV 500 will never support the broadcast flag. It will ignore flags, and not use DRM for any content. That means you'll have the maximum freedom possible with its recordings."

I am saying that the EyeTV 500 will never support the broadcast flag. That is, the broadcast flag will never be supported by the EyeTV 500. The flag that will not be supported is the broadcast flag and no other.

Does Mojo-Jojo work in their PR dept?

My own plans for the broadcast plan

[Dark Paladin]

My plans involve an underground bunker, stocked with old books and DVD's that will be stored in perfectly dark conditions to preserve them for as long as possible. Upon these DVD's are recordings of the great television shows and movies.

Upon the day of the broadcast flag, I will be taking my family into the bunker along with a supply of food, air, and other needs to last 100 years.

When my great-grandchildren emerge into the world after society collapses, all the old books (which were deemed illegal during the Copyright Stealing Prevention act of 2050) are burned and all eyeballs gouged out during the Copyright Memory Prevention Act of 2075, when humanity has children born without R/M/AA approved Eyeball Extractors coming to remove their ocular sockets to be installed with DCMA III approved cybereyes (which shut down if it appears the looker is attempitng to actually remember what they see to replay it in their mind later, which of course is a copyright violation), then my great-grandchildren will be able to use these books and DVD's as barter.

Hm - I wonder how much food they'll be able to buy with a copy of "Cryptonomicon". Maybe I should get another copy....

Re:My own plans for the broadcast plan

[Cpt_Kirks]

Hm - I wonder how much food they'll be able to buy with a copy of "Cryptonomicon".

About a pallet load of "Cap'n Crunch".

Re:My own plans for the broadcast plan

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll need to take 3 other families with you, If you want your great-grandchildren to emerge without inbreeding.

Re:My own plans for the broadcast plan

[Dark Demon]

No worries, he's probably from the South.

Re:My own plans for the broadcast plan

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel so deliciously white trash. Mommy, I want a mullet!

Re:My own plans for the broadcast plan

[lilmouse]

Hm - I wonder how much food they'll be able to buy with a copy of "Cryptonomicon". Maybe I should get another copy....

None. You'll be arrested on the spot, re-educated, and then added to the legions of mindless drones.

--LWM

boycott DRM device manufacturers!

[Anonymous Coward]

If we all boycott companies that try to push DRM enabled devices on us and support DRM-free quality hardware the evil companies will be out of business in no time. I am doing my part and you should do yours.

Re:boycott DRM device manufacturers!

[Anonymous Coward]

heh

Re:boycott DRM device manufacturers!

[The Wicked Priest]

No, at least in this case, it's not the device manufacturers' fault. They have no legal choice but to comply with this FCC regulation. If you want to boycott the responsible parties, then boycott Hollywood film studios.

Stop [being a consumer]

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny. Something similiar also works for the movie, and music industry as well.

Purchase recommendation

[netruner]

As with all laws, the authority comes from elected officials. So i recommend that you purchase an elected official. You can probably get one cheaper than you think.

Re:Purchase recommendation

[Bodhidharma]

Too bad I don't mod any more. I would have modded this up. I would have been torn between 'funny' and 'informative'.

Re:Purchase recommendation

[Anonymous Coward]

The trouble is that few of us can afford to purchase our own representive, and most of them don't stay bought, anyway.

But what if there were a way to register your basic dislike of the fact that our politicans are wholy owned subsidiaries of the corporations? In such a way that your voice will not only be heard by your representive, but that by law must be made public? So that everyone knows how many people hate the way our country is being run?

Simple: write a nice polite letter to each of your representives, explaining that you're tired of them being puppets to their corporate masters. Now such a letter will do nothing, of course. But... enclose a dollar, as a donation to his/her campaign fund.

These donations must be tracked, recorded, and made public. You could read the list of people who contributed a dollar, nothing more, and find out exactly how many people are sick of the way things are going. Yes, you'd have your name on a list, but all of our names are on some list or another already. And the media couldn't lie about the data, as it's regularly made publically available -- indeed, it's illegal *not* to make it available.

If your representive didn't put your name on the list after getting your donation, you could sue him/her for violation of election laws.

This idea probably wouldn't result in much change, either (puns always intended), but it would be a way to find out exactly how many people really are tired of the status quo, and if there are enough of us maybe we can actually buy a few representives back.

Or maybe at least rent them for a couple of days.

Re:Purchase recommendation

[Anonymous Coward]

Ideas and votes come from elected officials. Authority comes from their respective constitution.

Most people don't realize this at all.

Most people don't realize that the federal government does not even have the authority to make drugs illegal (only states do) - to do the same thing with alcohol, they had to amend the constitution. Know how they get around it?? They use the tax code. By not having a permit to carry drugs, you are creating a crime.

This is how they honor the spirit of the constitution... they make loopholes to do whatever they want.

Re:Purchase recommendation

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they on E-Bay?

The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Cid Highwind]

Step 1: Understand that 99.9% of shows on TV are crap anyway.
Step 2: Cease to care whether or not you can legally record them.
Step 3: Cancel your cable/satellite service.
Step 4: Download the 2 or 3 shows you really enjoy watching.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Captain Underpants]

Amen. Already did 1 through 3. Don't care enough anymore to even attempt #4. Life is so much better.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Nf1nk]

As did i the amount of time that was added to my life has alowed me to post slightly more often on slashdot, learn multivariable calculus, do work on a computer animated movie, and most interestingly I feel less compelled to buy shit at the mall.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Anonymous Coward]

so, who is going to be recording and distributing the shows I like?

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[cvd6262]

Amen.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Anonymous Coward]

"Step 4: Download the 2 or 3 shows you really enjoy watching."

Agent RIAA: Ah, Mr. Anderson, but how will you download the shows you really enjoy watching when everyone is unable to . . . record?

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[lexiconographolologi]

Amen! I AM NEVER GOING TO PAY FOR TV. The idea is absurd beyond reason. Why pay for commercials? We'll have our analog tv for a good while.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[The Wicked Priest]

Of course, the entire goal of the regulation is to eliminate the possibility of step 4.

Well, maybe not the entire goal. They'd also like to boost sales of DVD sets by eliminating casual archiving.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Nethead]

That's what I did a few months ago. There are so many good books to read that I just don't have time for TV. For my video I now have Netflix for about a third the price of my cable bill. No TVs in the house now, just a laptop with a DVD player.

I feel so much better and smarter now. Did you know that there is a "new" Heinlein book out? I never saw that on TV!

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Anonymous Coward]

^ Mega dittos. All I watch are food shows now, without the commercials. Saves a lot of time and I can watch whenever I want, even breaking it up. But I still need the cable Internet service.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[tepples]

There are so many good books to read that I just don't have time for TV. For my video I now have Netflix for about a third the price of my cable bill. No TVs in the house now, just a laptop with a DVD player.

No cable eh? How do you access Slashdot, Netflix, and your public library's web site? Dial-up? And I take it you no longer care about sports.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Nethead]

Er, Speakeasy DSL. And baseball is almost better on AM radio anyway. Safeco Field is only a few blocks from where I work so I catch a few games a year in person. I don't really care for other sports.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[MightyYar]

Here-here. The only thing I miss is South Park, and even that I had forgotten about until I (re)discovered usenet. One of the other posters has used the free time to learn calculus - I'm just scanning in family photos! :)

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[roman_mir]

1.5 years with no tv and counting

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[lanner]

Done. TV free for over eight years now. As for PBS, they have a website.

No inscentive to ever pay for TV again.

Re:The 4-step "Who cares, TV sucks" program

[Anonymous Coward]

...'n kin AH have ANOTHAH hallelujah from thuh con-gre-gation!!!!

I think you are incorrect

[way2trivial]

the OP is trying to stay within the law.
Your assesment is kinda wrong.

You've never experienced things like a state tax filing amnesty? librariers that have fine amnesty?

never heard of realtors trying to close deals before laws change so they can be grandfathered in and legal?

the Question is,
"HOW BEST CAN I PREPARE MYSELF FOR SOMETHING THAT IS LEGAL"

not, how can I circumvent the law.

the advice being sought is in fact, ON THE SIDE OF LAW and wholly valid, I'm glad to see the topic, I was thinking about snapping up some hardware myself.

As I understand it- and I'd LOVE to be courteously corrected, the law only applies to products moved across state lines (or into the country) so a product manufactured, marketed and sold in the same US state, is actually still a possibility.

(fabrication facilitys then needing to be built in each state of course)

Re:I think you are incorrect

[anakin876]

What if different parts were manufactured in different locations that could be used for a variety of devices which were then easily assembled by the purchaser in their own state?

Re:I think you are incorrect

[forrestt]

As I understand it- and I'd LOVE to be courteously corrected, the law only applies to products moved across state lines (or into the country) so a product manufactured, marketed and sold in the same US state, is actually still a possibility.

I doubt it (IANAL). Since the case that broke the interstate commerce clause involved a farmer growing grain on his farm which happened to extend across state lines. The farmer was feeding said grain to his animals in part of his farm that was in the other state. It was argued that since he was growing the corn instead of purchasing corn, he was affecting commerce. Since corn could potentially be brought in from another state and sold to said farmer, he was affecting sales in the interstate grain trade. Thus, his actions were subject to Federal jurisdiction. From that point on, anything which "exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce" has fallen under the aegis of the Commerce Clause. I think the same would apply if I built PVR's and sold them. TiVo's sales would be affected, (people who bought my system wouldn't likely buy the TiVo system), and I would thus be required to abide by the Federal Laws.

For more info see this article

No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[peawee03]

Sure, you can stock up on pre-broadcast flag HDTV cards, and you can do all sorts of other tricks, but to do what you talk of for long-term goals, you're gonna need to work from the inside of the "system". Like others have said, big companies can spend all they want on re-election campaigns, but they still get elected by those who vote.

What most people forget about American democracy is that it is designed to work well in facilitating peaceful revolutions- when people care and vote. The blame for the sorry state the American government is in lies with nobody save every last American citizen who is currently enfranchised (older than 18, etc.). And I write this as an American citizen.

Re:No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately it doesn't matter so much how many people you can get to care and vote when this is simply cancelled out by a group of people who simply care very, very much about Janet Jackson's breasts.

Re:No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[Anonymous Coward]

> every last American citizen who is currently enfranchised

So, how are you and the other 2 guys, anyways?

Re:No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the blame lies with Democrats.

Re:No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[Anonymous Coward]

The blame for the sorry state the American government is in lies with nobody save every last American citizen who is currently enfranchised

How do people become sufficiently educated about the issues to decide who they will vote for? They watch TV, read magazines, and listen to the radio. Are you aware that the people who publish the news are the same people lobbying for stronger copyright laws? If you didn't question the first sentence of this paragraph, you are probably among those who will let the media decide what "the issues" are, and vote accordingly.

Re:No *real* way out of it without getting in it

[Anonymous Coward]

Democracy is a myth designed to make the weak think that they play by the same rules as the strong. Works pretty well.

My plan

[doombob]

I have already purchased my brand new camcorder and tripod to set up in front of my TV! I keep hearing people say as long as you're able to see/hear/smell it you're able to record it!

Re:My plan

[flu1d]

I keep hearing people say as long as you're able to see/hear/smell it you're able to record it!

Last night my girfriend made the most wonderfull smelling muffins so I decided to record the smell using my camcorder. When I tried to replay the smell all I could smell was a dusty TV. Do you think the FCC has allready placed a broadcast flag for smells in camcorders?!!

Is that fair use?

[Donny Smith]

> Specifically, I want to make sure that I can record DVDs or similar files of any program I want off of cable, sattelite (sic!) or broadcast TV

Is that fair use?
"Any program I want" - doesn't sound very compromising and regardful of possible copyrights and restrictions on recording of broadcasts...
I'd wish you luck but I can't feel simpathy for you.

FYI, in very near future people will not record but create playlists, that's all you'll need as you will be able to play whatever you want right off the network.
Managing thousands of media files is insane and unnecessary.

Re:Is that fair use?

[The Wicked Priest]

Yes. Yes, it is.

And as for "playlists" (video on demand), I'd say that wasting that kind of bandwidth is insane and unnecessary. And I really don't want to pay per view.

And let's not forget about OS X

[Tibor the Hun]

does anyone have any HD solutions for OS X that ignore the flag?

Re:And let's not forget about OS X

[dowobeha]

See the EFF for a good list of HD solutions on Mac, Linux, and Windows:

Intro to HD PVRs

Broadcast flag info and list of HDTV cards

And BTW, the Elgato eyetv 500 is the answer to your question.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

This may be a solution

[robyannetta]

I'll give my $0.02 in this conversation because I may have an answer.

Once the broadcast flag becomes standard, can't the FCC be sued for violating the Supreme Court order mandating fair use in the Sony Betamax case? It would seem to be a slam-dunk of this argument is used.

Re:This may be a solution

[INetUser]

This was exactly what I was thinking too. There is no real difference between a VCR and a PVR. The only difference is the storage media of the program. Then, by extension, if the broadcast flag disables PVRs, it would seem logical to conclude that it too would be in violation of that supreme court ruling.

Right or wrong? Can someone speak with some authority or greater knowledge on this issue?

Re:This may be a solution

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to get sued, it might as well be for a good reason.

As evidence of how a VTR may be used, respondents offered the testimony of William Griffiths. Griffiths, although named as an individual defendant, was a client of plaintiffs' law firm. The District Court summarized his testimony as follows:

"He owns approximately 100 tapes. When Griffiths bought his Betamax, he intended not only to time-shift (record, play- back and then erase) but also to build a library of cassettes. Maintaining a library, however, proved too expensive, and he is now erasing some earlier tapes and reusing them.

"Griffiths copied about 20 minutes of a Universal motion picture called 'Never Give An Inch,' and two episodes from Universal television series entitled 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' and 'Holmes and Yo Yo.' He would have erased each of these but for the request of plaintiffs' counsel that it be kept. Griffiths also testified that he had copied but already erased Universal films called 'Alpha Caper' (erased before anyone saw it) and 'Amelia Earhart.' At the time of his deposition Griffiths did not intend to keep any Universal film in his library."

Maybe TV sucking isn't a recent phenomena.

Packet sniffer/transformer

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I wouldn't fret it too much. The same folks who brought you "free cable" and "free satellite" are probably going to also provide a little box that takes raw signal in, flips the "evil bit", and sends a pure pirateable stream to your DVR.

Re:Packet sniffer/transformer

[DaHat]

Your concept of a bit flipper is a little more... complicated than you think.

Now to write up this explanation for a third time in less than a year... maybe I should save it.

A digital television transport stream is a stream of binary data divided up into 188 byte packets (the ATSC standard at least). Each packet has a PID stamped on it, and the broadcast flag is carried on a packet with a specific PID (sorry, but I don't have time to drag out the ATSC specs (A/65B in this case I believe)... it would be possible to detect an Redistribution Control Descriptor (RC)(the official name) and restamp the PID of the packet carrying it to be a null packet (0x1FFF).

The problem with this approach is that it is not easy. For over the air signals (or cable for that matter), you would need a tuner and demodulator which turns the RF signals into usable binary data, which in turn would be fed into some sort of processor (FPGA's are good for this) which does the detection and restamping work, and then spits out the altered stream to a modulator which would turn the binary data back into RF signals.

Complicated eh? Worse yet, you could only do it for one channel at a time without spending a fortune on multiple tuners and multiplexers. You could in theory have such a device tied into your receiver box, and start it out at the same channel as your receiver and pick up on the channel change requests from your remote in order to keep it restamping the channel you are looking at... not that this is much simpler.

Such a hack (the simple version) would run around $75-$100 a piece for parts alone. You are far better to attempt to beat it in software, which depending on the API's provided by the card maker, you could do this on your own... in theory.

Mac Solutions

[cmstar]

I'm getting into the whole TV recording/TIVO/DVR thing a bit late. I realize that Myth TV will run on a Mac. But do I need a TV Tuner card? Or will Firewire Cable Box to Mac be just as good. Is there an advantage of one method to the other?

Buy offshore

[TiggertheMad]

Can't you just by cards made offshore that will not honor the broadcast flag? If there is a market someone will build them.

And this is why any attempt to controll how an end user uses media will fail. The whole system will work as long as everyone plays ball. As soon as you have somebody that realizes they can make a better product by simply ignoring DMR/Broadcast flages/whatever, they will have 'built a better mousetrap'. And since implimenting copy protection takes extra effort, the product without it will cost the manufacturer/consumer less than other products.

And the best part is, if all the companies get together and conspire to squeeze out anyone who doesn't play ball, we just start filing anti-trust suits, and let the government dismantle them.

Re:Making me reconsider

[halivar]

This is one of those things that is making me reconsider my conservative philosophy. It seems like the Republicans we've elected don't actually care about it.

This is one of the few unfortunate examples of complete bipartisanship in congress.

Broadcast flag preparation...Alice in TV Land.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Two words: rabbit ears."

Well that's nice...for the rabbit. What about the rest of us?

What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[91degrees]

The broadcast flag is simply a flag that indicates that people are not entitled to do what people don't do anyway - Make multi-generational copies of broadcast media.

Why do you need to do that? It's certainly nothing to do with delayed viewing. The only possible reason I can think of for wanting to do it is for distribution and archiving. Neither of these are rights you have under copyright. Fair use can only be stretched so far. This is well outside of it.

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[Skynyrd]

The broadcast flag is simply a flag that indicates that people are not entitled to do what people don't do anyway - Make multi-generational copies of broadcast media.

Not exactly... the broadcast flag will allow the control of recording, including the possibility of *not* being recordable at all. It's a possibility that you won't be able to timeshift some shows, and some won't be DVD writeable (which is how I store some shows for long term storage).

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[91degrees]

including the possibility of *not* being recordable at all. It's a possibility that you won't be able to timeshift some shows,

That is not a possibility with the broadcast flag. It will always allow you to record shows off air.

and some won't be DVD writeable (which is how I store some shows for long term storage).

Long term storage isn't a legal right as it is. So you can't breach copyright the way you've always been able to in the past? Well, that's unfortunate, but it wasn't legal before. Why should it suddenly become legal now?

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL. TINLA.

A common error... you are confusing certain acts explicitly enumerated in copyright law as "not infringement" with acts of fair use (not explicitly enumerated in copyright law, but which encompass all other cases of "copying a work, or portions thereof, without infringement occuring").

Copyright law says that certain acts (e.g., creating archival copies of lawfully-obtained software) are specifically not infringement. If (for instance) I get hauled into court because someone finds a burned copy of Corel Office Suite 8 in my home, I do not call "fair use" (Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107) - I instead pull out the lawfully-obtained copy I bought while in college and point to Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 117.

"Fair Use" (in section 107) talks about reproduction of copies for uses not explicitly exempted as "not infringement" elsewhere in copyright law. It gives an exemplary (not exhaustive) list of four things that should be used to check whether or not a given case is "Fair Use" but "Fair Use" is to be examined on a case-by-case basis.

In other words, what the article poster asks to do MAY in fact be "Fair Use" or it may not - that will have to be decided by the courts, not by you or I. In fact, the Sony-Betamax decision sets a precedent that what he seeks to do is in fact "Fair Use"...

"noncommercial home use recording of material broadcast over the public airwaves was a fair use of copyrighted works and did not constitute copyright infringement."

Another important note from the same case:

"[Copyright] has never accorded the copyright owner complete control over all possible uses of his work. Rather, the Copyright Act grants the copyright holder "exclusive" rights to use and to authorize the use of his work in five qualified ways, including reproduction of the copyrighted work in copies. All reproductions of the work, however, are not within the exclusive domain of he copyright owner; some are in the public domain. Any individual may reproduce a copyrighted for for a "fair use"; the copyright owner does not possess the exclusive right to such a use."

If I might be so bold as to alter your question a bit, I ask copyright holders, "what rights do you want?!?" (Copyright law gives you but five!)

Let's face facts here - the broadcast flag is an attempt to gain full control over the work - no more, no less; a level of control which the Supreme Court itself says they are not (and have never been) entitled to.

The question is not, "why is Joe Sixpack trying to grab rights to which he is not entitled?" (and it should be noted that in this case, legal precedent says that he IS entitled to these rights) and rather, "why are copyright holders trying to grab rights to which they are not entitled?" (Which IS what is happening with the DMCA, the Broadcast Flag, and so on).

The hardest part of learning is asking the right questions... you still haven't learned the right questions.

--AC

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[Ironsides]

Why do you need to do that? It's certainly nothing to do with delayed viewing.

There are various settings for the broadcast flag and how long content is supposed to remain arround after recording. the four key levels are as follows:
No Record
30 Minutes
1 Week
Unlimited

"No record" means just that. Don't allow recording. 30 minutes is the shortest setting with the broadcast flag. A show may remain around for that long and then it must be deleted in compliant hardware. I find this interesting as many shows are langer than 30 min. 1 week is the longest period of time (shorter than unlimited) that the flag alows shows to stay around for. If that bit is set, after the 1 week the show must be deleted. Finally, "Unlimited" or basically, no flag, allows what we currently do.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of people trying to get the 30 min or no record bits set on the shows and essentially eliminating time shifting because of that. I also see this as a step towards controlling VCRs where, if recording is allowed, we can play and stop. No pause, rewind, fastforward, etc... (And when we play, it starts from the very beginning) As a way to make sure that if we watch something we can't skip through any part of it. Such as at the beginning of many Disney DVDs where you have 20min of commercials advertising Disney products that you can't skip past.

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[91degrees]

There are various settings for the broadcast flag and how long content is supposed to remain arround after recording. the four key levels are as follows:

Please supply a source for this information. Sounds like an internet rumour to me.

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL. TINLA.

Long term storage isn't a legal right as it is. So you can't breach copyright the way you've always been able to in the past? Well, that's unfortunate, but it wasn't legal before.

I suggest you re-read Sony/Betamax. In that decision, it was noted that home recording - even archiving so as to build a library - was in fact "Fair Use" (I won't go into the detailed analysis they did, but suffice it to say that if you read the entire decision, the right of the consumer to record broadcast programming is explicitly said to fall under "Fair Use" even if he archives the material, not just time-shifts it) ... and even implied that the copyright holder ought to be considered to have been "compensated" for any such copies by the advertising revenue paid (with the broadcaster as the middleman).

Read the case law itself; don't show us that you are espousing your opinions as facts without actually checking your facts first.

--AC

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[91degrees]

I'm familiar with the ruling. Archiving of shows is not a right and never has been. The opinion was simply that the ability to do this did not make the video recorder an infringing device.

Re:What "fair use" rights do you want!?

[Pofy]

>I get hauled into court because someone finds a
>burned copy of Corel Office Suite 8 in my
>home....

Ehh, is possession something stated as infringement in US copyright laws?

Meh....

[Capt James McCarthy]

I probably get flamed for this, but I really don't care enough about television to have an opinion about the issue. Will/has it spread out to other forms of "media rights?" I believe so, but then again, the music industry can join televsion in the toilet for all I care. I won't miss it.......at least, I don't think so.......Hmmm, life without television or music, who would raise our kids???

Re:Meh....

[ValuJet]

probably get flamed for this, but I really don't care enough about television to have an opinion about the issue.

You've sure helped out the origional poster a lot with this valuable piece of insight. If you had a question about freeBSD and everyone said I prefer typewriters I'm sure you'd be really happy with the responses.

Re:Meh....

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Never, ever say you don't watch or like TV around here. If you don't have at least two TiVos running 24/7 and don't watch the latest dreck at least 50 times a month for hours on end, it's -1, troll for you!

Like this...

Re:Meh....

[Zed2K]

You got marked as troll in the previous post because that post was a troll. If you don't watch tv thats fine, but to go into tv threads and bash people that do watch tv and want to talk about it is nothing but trolling.

Here's a clue, we don't care if you watch tv or not.

Re:Meh....

[irg1231491]

Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. Yes, mainstream media pretty much sucks. Yes, we really need to turn off the TV once in a while and get some exercise. However, just because you don't care enough about TV to take any interest in watching it doesn't mean that you ought to allow people to take away your rights without protest. It's kind of like the reverse of the big political problems in the USA - instead of being too caught up in TV to take notice of what's going on around you, you're too caught up in what's going on around you to take notice of what they're doing to TV.

Anyway, TV is an important issue because millions of people rely on it for news, information, and entertainment. As corporate interests become even more controlling of the TV experience, the masses will reflect corporate-sanctioned opinions.

Stop time

[Ih8sG8s]

You could try to stop time, progress and technical evolution. That way, your shiny new equipment will never become obsolete.

Sorry, that's a small jab. We can't predict what the future will bring. I can tell you this though...

If you want to be able to do things with bits that the powers that be try to stop you from doing, your best bet will always be had in the hobyist (read free software / oss) areas. This is because companies who want to compete and cooperate to get your money will b forced to play by the rules imposed by those would deny digital rights. Individuals will not bend to this, so the free stuff, while admitedly slower on the curve, will be your best bet, if freedom is your motivation. This means invest in your PC.

If you want digital input to your TV, go over DVI, but be sure that any set you look at will play non DRM encoded stuff. I believe the MPAA is attempting to mandate the broadcast of digital signals in a format which will limit rights. There are two types of digital interface on a television. My memory is sketchy here, I bought my set over 18 moonths ago. I do know though that there are a couple of different interface/protocol types, some of which use only the protocol which the MPAA is trying to define (in their favour). Be careful of that.

Re:Stop time

[8282now]

I believe you're referring to the HDMI. IIRC HDMI is the DRM encumbered version of DVI.

Re:Stop time

[Anonymous Coward]

You could try to stop time, progress and technical evolution. That way, your shiny new equipment will never become obsolete.

I remember 1996. I remember being in my fraternity house, networked with a P133, playing quake with my frat bros. I remember the stunned look on my friends face the first time I rocket-jumped up to his location... he was blown away. I remeber thinking "Quake is so perfect. Deathmatch doesn't need to be any different at all. But one day people won't play Quake anymore because newer things will be out, and I'll be sad."

Alas. On my dream lan people still play superhero quake, and they'll still try to keep me from picking "magnetize" with "rapid shot" and using the grenade launcher....

=( *sniff

Re:Stop time

[bersl2]

IIRC, in an obvious attempt to "sweeten the deal," they are also having HDMI carry audio channels, which makes little to no sense at all. But other than that, it's DVI with DRM.

Re:Stop time

[Inebrius]

The advantage of the audio channels is reducing the cables down to 1. HDMI is supposed to be a smaller cable capable of longer runs. I see the audio thing as an advantage for consumers that have a cable/sat receiver to TV only setup. If audio receivers had a bunch of HDMI inputs that they can pass through to the TV, this would be even better - 1 cable per device, all feeding into the audio receiver and the video fed to the TV.

Lotsa Luck

[ackthpt]

you can either challenge their decisions in court (assuming that someone isn't already) or get people fired up to fight.

Problem being, too many americans are too busy watching their spoon-fed share of culture on TV to care what happens, as long as the crap keeps showing up on their bigscreen they're fat and happy.

Re:Lotsa Luck

[mdamaged]

This reminds me of the famous quote:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
- Pastor Martin Niemvller

Re:Lotsa Luck

[sl4shd0rk]

..scuse me while I roll my fat ass away from the computer to get a cheeseburger and a milkshake. What time is the simpons's on?

Re:Lotsa Luck

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, I've only seen that quote once per Slashdot story that involved politics. The universe is now complete and can end.

Re:Lotsa Luck

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever marked this as a troll has a serious history deprivation.

Re:Lotsa Luck

[Fjornir]

First they came for the verbs,
and I said nothing because verbing weirds language.
Then they arrival for the nouns,
and I speech nothing because I no verbs
- Peter Ellis

Re:Lotsa Luck

[walstib]

they're fat and happy.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

You misspelled "glass teat"

[Anonymous Coward]

So how was it, being the subject of an Onion article?

preparations are underway: look out below

[ruxxell]

here's a great way to prepare!

throw your tv out the window. nothing like getting a little bit of this air while it's still fresh, huh? HUH?

i mean, the stuff that's on tv these days is mindless garbage. ok, that's not entirely true *cough adult swim cough*, but anything worth getting can be done so on DVD.
this from a guy who used to watch "turbo teen" when it was hot (and he was 6)

Re:preparations are underway: look out below

[Anonymous Coward]

>>*cough adult swim cough*,

You mean cartoons? How old are you anyway?

Re:Making me reconsider

[Rei]

The current prevailing Republican attitude is "Businesses are almost always right, and moral values should usually be legislated.". The prevailing Democratic attitude is "Businesses is usually not right, moral values should rarely be legislated.". The prevailing Libertarian attitude is "Businesses are almost always right, but moral values should almost never be legislated.". The prevailing Green view is "Businesses are almost never right right, and moral values should almost never be legislated.".

Take your pick. :) Of course, individuals vary, especially on the individual-issue level; this is just averages. Of the two major parties, you get better ratings for the Dems by the EFF and ACLU, but it's not universal. The two biggest marginal parties (Greens and Libertarians) tend to be more ideologically polarized than Dems and Republicans.

modchips!

[Anonymous Coward]

it'll just turn into a market for modchips most likely.. eventually you'll have a DRM'd toaster that'll need modding too.

Re:modchips!

[Anonymous Coward]

The 'fair use' will be that only the person who bought and made the toast will be able to consume it. Sounds fair to me.

*shrugs*

[mcc]

I for one will not be doing anything to prepare; I'm just not going to buy anything with broadcast flag support in it. Period. If this means not buying any more TVs, maybe it's for the best. All I use my TV for anyway is as a monitor for my video game systems, and with the next generation of those, I'll be able to just use a monitor. Who needs a TV?

Re:*shrugs*

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't you the same person that I heard saying
"I'll sell my car before I'll pay $2.00 for a gallon of gas"
and
"I'll never use Windows after what they did to Dr DOS"

Re:*shrugs*

[mcc]

I am unaware of anyone who's reacted in quite that way to rising gas prices, and I don't use Windows.

One Word

[lbmouse]

Move.

Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[Anita Coney]

I'm amazed at how many people think that simply not watching TV is any sort of solution.

Broadcast flags are utterly evil for two reasons.

First, they are contrary to our fair use rights to record programming via Universal v. Sony.

Second, they create perpetual copyrights. Under the current rules, broadcasters will even be able to stop recording of public domain programming. Why do broadcasters get greater rights than the creator?! That makes no sense. And what's so hard to understand about the phrase "for a limited time"?!

Merely sitting on the sidelines and ignoring the problem will NOT help! If and when broadcast flags succeed, similar systems will become even more commonplace.

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[BlakeCaldwell]

i don't think the provider has to make it possible for us to copy their stuff, even for fair use... they just can't go after us for doing it -- oh, unless you're breaking DMCA, which bypassing the broadcast flag may fall under...

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[Anita Coney]

The provider, aka, the broadcaster, is irrelevant. The entity mandating the broadcast flag is the FCC.

Nothing is stopping broadcasters from making it impossible to copy their stuff. The problem is that it would never work unless the government got on board to make it criminal to bypass.

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[BlakeCaldwell]

are you sure? we're already there... the DMCA makes it illegal to break any kind of anti-copy scheme, doesn't it?

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm amazed at how many people think that simply not watching TV is any sort of solution.

It will leave you with more time to devise a real solution. The ongoing landgrab in the realm of arts and ideas has to be fought on multiple fronts. Those who don't watch TV will have more time to engage in that fight.

One way to challenge the cultural landgrabbers is to become a creator oneself. It may get more common (and hence cheaper and easier) for small players like private citizens to make works suitable for the big screen. That will make it harder to argue that the film and broadcasting industry need all the protection they are asking for. They sure need it, but why should they get it if we don't need them?!

For the sake of employment? Is movie making the new agriculture?

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[Anita Coney]

I never said I was in favor of the DMCA. It's yet another example of our government screwing us over.

Re:Sticking you head in the sand helps nothing!

[BlakeCaldwell]

well.. yeah, except when it's used to protect injet cartridges... :)

Re:Making me reconsider

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, you think?!

Re:wha

[northcat]

Exactly. On slashdot, when the topic has something to do with USA, everyone is just expected to know everything about it. And the topic is discussed (even in the stories) as if it something general that has to do with the rest of the world. Like, talking about US laws as if they apply to the rest of the world, or slashdot is only meant for US readers.

Simple

[daveschroeder]

Buy an HD tuner that doesn't respect the flag before 1 July 2005, or purchase any such preexisting device after 1 July 2005 (all non flag compliant devices can be resold after that date).

But it's not that simple, after all. Because the problem is TUNING the content you want to record, e.g., from a satellite provider or cable operator. And since more and more of the digital content is encrypted, and is only able to be tuned by devices sanctioned by the provider, and all such devices will respect the Broadcast Flag, the answer is to "What can I do to prepare for the Broadcast Flag?" is "Not much."

Unless, of course, you don't mind recording from an analog connection, such as composite video, S-video, or component video. But the FireWire ports that are, for example, also mandated on all HD/digital cable set top boxes after 1 July 2005 will be mostly encrypted. One might ask the question, if they're encrypted, then what the hell good are they? Indeed. But what can you do in the face of a cable provider whose call centers don't even know what FireWire is, or who argues that "technically" the FireWire ports are "functional" (as required by the FCC), even though their output is encrypted.

The real answer, of course, is that these ports will interact with OTHER 5C-compliant FireWire devices that also respect the Broadcast Flag. There's no way around it unless you go analog. And that INCLUDES all the nice things on the EFF's page. Sure, you can tune over-the-air HD channels and record them. And that's great. In some markets, that may account for a lot of content. But you won't be able to digitally record content that is flagged as Record Never that you're paying for from a cable or satellite operator, because you need THEIR EQUIPMENT to tune to those channels. (Or, something like a CableCard in - guess what - another device that respects the flag.)

All in all, we'll be able to do less with our current (i.e., digital) equipment than we could do with equivalent equipment (i.e., the VCR) 30 years ago. And most of the operators won't shoulder any of the blame. They'll just point the finger at laws or at the content providers. And then what is a customer to do? The only thing you really *can* do is write your elected officials, and provide feedback to the FCC. Or, not buy any flag compliant devices, which might ultimately prove to be a very hard thing to do.

In sum: anything you buy now won't guarantee you recording of ALL content you might legitimately have access to, unless you're ONLY concerned about OTA recording.

Re:Simple

[praedor]

I don't have HD shit at this point so I don't know but...would it be possible to piggyback HD tuners in some way? Perhaps have the nasty broadcast flag tuner that is forced down your throat by the provider piggybacked to a pre-1 July 2005 tuner that doesn't give a flip for the flag and get around it this way?

Re:Simple

[Wesley Felter]

I know most people will consider this a nit, but the broadcast flag only covers OTA DTV. By definition, cable and satellite cannot contain the broadcast flag (they contain other flags).

Yes, cable and satellite are totally DRM-encrusted, and you have no chance to record make your time, but it's off-topic.

Re:Simple

[daveschroeder]

Yes, of course, you're right...I'm kind of mixing two unrelated issues here. But from a consumer standpoint, they appear very related: cable and satellite operators will use No Record flags, that may not be the Broadcast Flag per se, on their content, and you're stuck with needing their equipment to tune the channels, or do any digital recording of that content. And, they'll be the carriers via which many people will get their local HD content to begin with, and their equipment indeed can and will have the capability to pass the flag mandates, albeit not with the "Broadcast Flag" itself: i'm speaking of the Broadcast Flag in the broad concept that 'do not record', 'record once', or 'free to record' must be respected by cable and satellite operators' equipment and delivery systems even if the settop sitting in your house doesn't respect the Broadcast Flag proper: somewhere along the line, NBC said the HD superbowl or the premiere of HD Las Vegas cannot be recorded, and your cable operator is respecting it with their equipment. Whether the settop in your living room is respecting the flag provisions for that channel itself or whether the operator is enforcing it a couple of layers detached on its network with its own rights management, it's still being enforced.

If all you care about is OTA HDTV/DTV, then sure, go out and get one of the several computer-based or standalone non-flag-compliant HDTV/DTV tuners. But people in many markets will access what are normally their local OTA channels (if they had OTA equipment) via something like a cable operator. And the cable operator will be respecting the flag. If you want to have all sorts of different tuners and equipment, then by all means, go for it, but most ordinary customers won't be able to do this.

Re:Simple

[hackstraw]

All in all, we'll be able to do less with our current (i.e., digital) equipment than we could do with equivalent equipment (i.e., the VCR) 30 years ago.

Gotta call you out on this one. Even if my 30 year old VCR had better picture and sound quality than my cable provided DVR, I would use the DVR. Why?

1) it labels the recordings for me
2) search forward/reverse is better
3) no tapes
4) recording a particular program is trivial
5) recording a particular program _every time it comes on_ is trivial

When I was a kid, I was the only person in the household that could program the VCR to record something, and even then I rarely did it.

Now, I record stuff for the hell of it.

What I wish the DVR had (that the VCR doesn't either) is I wish the firewire port was worth using. By that, I wish I could suck any recorded program off of the device onto my computer at something near firewire speeds. I was excited about the firewire port at first, but then I realized that it only spit out the currently viewed program in realtime and that it might be encrypted. Well, needless to say, I never wasted my time buying a firewire cable for it. I mean if I could "cron" my DVR to play something at a particular time and have my computer capture it at that time, I would not mind terribly much, but I am not going to sit and wait to record something in realtime, especially since I do not know if its going to be encrypted or not.

For most content, I could care about archiving it for personal use. Most everything on TV is rebroadcasted so many times that its nearly impossible to miss something. However, there are some programs I would like to have archived. I guess I'll start using those TV torrent sites for those. Hell, I already pay my cable company for my internet and cable, why should they care where I get recordings of their programming?

Re:Simple

[PatMouser]

Well then I'll just watch less TV, and I'm sure others will as well. Ad revenue falls, the 'do not record' flag will be replaced with another flag that says 'keep for x days' and all will be right in the world. Good grief, people! It's a fscking TELEVISION show. You want entertainment? Go outside! Read a book! Get off your arse, unplug, and DO SOMETHING ELSE ! No, that would be too easy. It's better to just complain that your emperors are telling you how to view the breads and circuses. Gah!

Re:Simple

[daveschroeder]

Gotta call you out on this one.

If you can't record a particular show AT ALL on a DVR, the rest of your argument is meaningless.

The answer isn't "well, you could still hook an analog recording device up" blah blah blah. The device needs to be able to record in its default state. And yes, I agree that all of the niceties of a DVR (lots of space, easy to use, etc.) are all great.

But that's no the point. If you select "Judging Amy" or "Daytona 500" and it says "Sorry, you are not allowed to record this show. This program must be watched live," then that's going backward from things you could do, on equal footing - differences in technology aside - with the VCR. The point isn't that the DVR has a fancy interface or lets you record 200 hours of stuff. The point is whether it LETS you record something at all (in its default state, without a bunch of external equipment or analog connections).

Re:Simple

[daveschroeder]

Heh. I agree with your argument, but that's actually part of my point:

For many people, for better or worse, DVRs have enabled them to actually HAVE a life. No, I don't mean these people are so pathetic that they need to watch TV at all costs. I only record a couple shows a week myself. But the point is, I don't have to be there. I don't have to think or care whether or not I'm going to miss a show. And in the great scheme of things, it's not important. But neither is going outside or reading a book. But you get to go outside and read a book when YOU CHOOSE. Why not be able to have that same capability for another mechanism of entertainment/learning/relaxation/whatever-you-wan t-to-call-it? That's exactly what PVR/DVR technology means: it makes TV shows something to be watched when convenient, if at all, not something engineered to get X number of eyes in front of the tube from 8:00 to 9:01 on Thursday night, for advertising revenue and to pimp the next lame show that we all want to be force fed. No, seriously: no one has to watch it, and yes, everyone can get up and turn it off. And no one has to watch the next show. BUT, what's wrong with having a technological device that makes this easier, in fact, an order of magnitude easier and more functional and convenient than even the VCR?

Re:Simple

[javaxman]

And most of the operators won't shoulder any of the blame. They'll just point the finger at laws or at the content providers. And then what is a customer to do? The only thing you really *can* do is write your elected officials, and provide feedback to the FCC. Or, not buy any flag compliant devices, which might ultimately prove to be a very hard thing to do.

The more I think about all of this, the more I think it may all come back to really bite content providers. I believe many people will be less likely to tune in to a broadcast if they know they won't be able to move it to their portable player or burn a DVD... and if I can't record it at all ( i.e. even on a compliant DVR ), there's just no way I'm watching it. If it's not on my TiVo, I already don't have time for it.

This ( not tuning into no-record content ) is likely to cause such DRM/broadcast-flagged content to decrease in market value... I could be wrong, but, maybe not; it wouldn't be the first consumer revolt. There's always Netflix and video games to occupy my ( limited ) free time if I can't time-shift my TV shows anymore.

Then again, I don't have much need or desire to move my DVR viewing beyond a single monitor, and perhaps that's what the content providers are banking on. As long as they don't get too greedy, they might win... which probably means they'll lose, in the long run...

Re:Simple

[bigpat]

"Or, not buy any flag compliant devices, which might ultimately prove to be a very hard thing to do."

People will pay for potential, which explains why people will pay thousands of dollars for a computer, even though they will only actually use it for a small subset of what they could. Who would pay $80k for a porche if it was engineered to run no faster than the speed limit?

If manufacturuers are forced to sell hobbled products, then they will get hobbled prices for those products. People won't refuse to buy these DRM enabled devices, but they will refuse to pay more than they are worth, which will be a lot less once they are forced to disable functionality.

No manufacturer should doubt it, this will impact their bottom line. And content distributers and creators should realize that it will slow adoption of the new technologies which they have already begun investing in. All this will mean that fewer people will be viewing the content as it was meant to be viewed, to the detriment of all.

Copy Right is a legal abstraction not a engineering spec.

Ding-dong: It's the postman...

[Anonymous Coward]

He has your cheques from the MPAA, Comcast, and Hollywood.

Yes, but are you using all the compiler flags??

[Swift Kick]

I find that --omg-optimized works wonders!

Simple...

[retro128]

how best can one prepare for the advent of the broadcast flag?"

Stop watching TV. It CAN be done!

Refuse to consume

[Johnny Mnemonic]

You might consider that if the product isn't to your liking, to find another competing product to consume. Not revolutionary--but broadcast TV is already feeling some pressure, due to loss of watchers to game consoles. I might suggest that if you don't care for the options, and don't want to be restricted by what they try to shovel down your throat, to purchase a PS 3 or Xbox 2 instead.

They might eventually get the message.

Yes, and in addition...

[daveschroeder]

...to what others have said in response, not only will it still work, but it will still be legal to own, use, AND resell indefinitely.

Slightly OT, but

[Anonymous Coward]

You make a mistake that a lot of people make: conservative != Republican. President Bush isn't part of the old-time conservative movement; he's a neoconservative. If you're looking for traditional conservative values like small government, classical learning, agrarian society, and less government regulation but NOT the "conservative" values of religious idealism, big corporations, pro-welfare state, etc, you need to vote for a traditional conservative (as paleo-conservatives are mostly extinct, this is the best you can do if you insist upon voting conservative Republican).

As a simpler alternative, everyone COULD just vote Libertarian... Ideally, under Libertarian leadership, market forces would dictate technology development. As there's no demand for broadcast flag technology except from the supplier side of the equation, I doubt we'd be in this situation we're in today.

But yeah, you've been scammed.

Fraud - not in anyone's name

[Anonymous Coward]

The FCC is an arm of the people I helped elect? You actually believe our national electons are still decided by a legitimate vote of the people. How quaint.

Screw them.

[wowbagger]

Yes, I did buy a pcHDTV2000 card, more on general principles than anything else, but my overall attitude on the broadcast flag can be summed up in two words:

Screw them.

If the broadcasters insist upon making me not the master of my TV, PVR, and DVD player, then I shall not consume their product - I'll read a book, I'll work on my car/computer/house/physique, and generally be better off than I am now.

The manufacturers of HDTV sets aren't seeing quite the volume they want - guess what guys, if you continue to make things less friendly to the consumer they will not consume as much!

Perhaps we shall see a rise of "GPL TV" - people creating shows for download (Considering the success of Homestar Runner, this may not be as far-fetched as we might think). Imagine - a Star Dreck^WTrek that has somewhat sensible science and stories! A rendition of Starship Troopers that is actually faithful to RAH's vision!

But no matter what - if my TV does not recognize me as its lord and master, then it shall be summarily expelled from my castle.

Re:Screw them.

[BlakeCaldwell]

well, if you're gonna be borrowing your friends books or going to a library, then make sure they're paper books, not e-books.... same problem there, right?

Re:Screw them.

[poot_rootbeer]

Imagine - a Star Dreck^WTrek that has somewhat sensible science and stories!

Imagine - you and your friends getting sued into oblivion by Paramount!

The Star Trek mythology does not belong to you. It will someday, assuming the core concepts of copyright are ultimately upheld, but today it doesn't. Feel free to create your own science fiction universe and create all the programming you want within it, but without a known brand name attached to it, good luck getting any viewership.

Re:Screw them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen!

Do What I Did...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop watching TV ( I still rent movies, though). Oh, you can't? You're hooked? You have the TV cable attached to a needle and in the vein of your arm? Too bad.

so on and so forth....

[RLW]

So if I buy a HDTV tuner card and use it to record a program that includes the broadcast flag is it a violation of the FCC rules to if that recording does not have the flag set? In other words could I set it up to not only ignore the flag but to stip it out ?

or ....

[Anonymous Coward]

Do it yourself (no secrets here):

• build a tuner
• hook up a QAM demod to it
• look at the transport stream coming out of it, ignore 99% of it
• decode the PATs so u know how to find the PMTs (but pass them thru)
• decode the PMTs whereever you see a broadcast flag change it's descriptor type to something else on the fly, fudge the section's CRC to get it right
• remod the transport stream and feed it into your hardware

Who should we conquer first?

[serutan]

I wonder which will be the first country to be invaded for "Intellectual Property terrorism" ??

U.S. foreign trade moves continuously toward importing real goods and exporting IP. Eventually the stream of rights income from abroad will be as vital as wheat and steel, and the invisible fences we're building around our make-believe property will become as sacred as real ones around real land. We go to war for oil, we go to war to prove that one person's invisible friend is better another. It's just a matter of time before we go to war over IP.

Re:Who should we conquer first?

[EvilTwinSkippy]

You laugh, but IP is a major part of an ongoing tiff between the US and China. It hasn't blown out into armed conflict, but it has been on the verge of setting off a trade war on several occasions.

Write Letters? Lot of good that will do

[btavshan]

Knowing a number of close friends that have worked in congressmen/senators' offices, I can tell you that writing/calling your congressmen will do.....NOTHING. They get ridiculous numbers of emails/calls a day (in addition to the normal spam and telemarketing no doubt), and just end up feeding it off on some intern who sends out cookie-cutter replies. No one in Washington or the state capitol wants to listen to you.

Re:Write Letters? Lot of good that will do

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the interns count the number of pro- and anti- letters on each topic. That way the reps know how much to charge the lobbyists for their votes.

Re:Write Letters? Lot of good that will do

[p0on]

Be careful making overbroad statements like that. Using broad brushes sometimes paints the window shut. Here's what I mean:

Cookie cutter form letters never make it to your leglislator. These message are generally salient enough to garner some degree media coverage and constituency feelings can be gleaned for other sources much more accurately (and efficiently) than from counting letters for and against an issue.

The REAL way to influence legislators (and I will lose my job if anyone figures out who I am) is to call their district office(s) en masse. Staff is unable to do their real jobs in the district because they are answering phones. Contrary to popular belief, the legislators don't have tons of money to staff district offices and these people have more to do than you can imagine.

The second most effective method to garner attention to your cause is a thoughtful and *ORIGINAL* correspondence to the legislator. For the state reps I have worked for, usually 3 or 4 letters on the same topic from constituents will cause their staff to alert the legislator. After a half dozen *ORIGINAL* letters each providing detail how it will affect voters in their districts the legislator will direct staff to research a public position.

If you can't manage originality, a good way to spam your legislator is by COMPLIMENTING them for taking a favorable position on your issue (or one close to favorable at least) or ENCOURAGING them for not taking a poisition opposite yours. These people are so used to negative pressures from peers and latent voter groups (i.e. mobilization threats) they become numb to them. What gets a legislator's blood moving is stroking their ego and affirming their position on something - be it indifference or not.

Ok, any more lobbying advice and I'm going to have to start billing you. Good luck.

Re:Write Letters? Lot of good that will do

[Eil]

ALERT!

Parent poster works for the MPAA!

(Alternatively, he may be an intern who's tired of sending out responses.)

Here's an idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

Quit watching TV. Seriously. I haven't even *owned* a television or subscribed to cable for nearly 10 years. And my life is hardly poorer because of it. I run my own business, make $70k/year, get to spend a lot of time with my family, reading, learning, exercising... and I'm a helluva lot sharper mentally than most of the half-wits I run into with who spend 2-4 hours melting their brains watching the boob tube every day.

TV is for people who don't have goals or motivation enough to accomplish meaninful things in life. Quit living your life watching other people's fake lives. Christ, you might as well be dead.

$1.29 for a box of Kleenex

[briancnorton]

"I want to make sure that I can record DVDs or similar files of any program I want off of cable, sattelite or broadcast TV"

Stick to analog.

Re:Dear people,

[northcat]

Come on, how can this be overrated?

The prevailing Libertarian attitude is...

[Anonymous Coward]

In all the things society might wish the government to do, the constitution specifies where the federal government gets to do it, or where it is left to state and local government, or the people themselves. Don't like it. Amend the constitution. Simple and easy and much better than the unlimited mess we are in now.

In fact, the last libertarian presidential candidate is on record stating the powers granted to corporations as persons (under the 14th) is a big mistake. That hardly fits with your breakdown.

Re: The prevailing Libertarian attitude is...

[Rei]

Apparently you missed where I stated "individuals vary". But lets look at averages - a good place for that might be, say, a party platform. Lets look at the Libertarian party platform, shall we?

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/platform_all.h tm l

They want every pro-business issue out there: a repeal of *all* controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates; a completely free-market system (even on issues of the environment); elimination of all tarriffs and trade barriers; the complete elimination of anti-trust; elimination of superfund (!!! - they don't even explain how to compensate for it), elimination of most or all consumer protections, elimination of OSHA, elimination of resource regulations, etc.

Take a look at the Green Party platform some time - it's just the opposite:

http://www.gp.org/platform/2004/index.html

zerg

[Lord Omlette]

What if you punished them for creating the Broadcast Flag by not watching TV?

Seriously, play World of Warcraft or City of Heroes w/ your friends or play The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords w/ your family.

If enough people decide to break the habit, maybe the bad guys will reflect on the error of their ways.

Re:zerg

[Stormwatch]

Nah. They'll just blame pirates.

I'm not sure what the big deal is

[symbolic]

Ultimately, you, the consumer, are still left with the final word. Since broadcast media depends, oh, I'd say, 100% or so, on whether or not you actually watch it, take the gun away from your head, and go do something else.

If consumers play their cards right (which is a long shot, having some idea of typical consumer behavior), this broadcast flag could become a rather significant problem for those using it, rather than the control mechanism originally intended...it all depends on how willfully consumers decide to put up with it.

STOP WATCHING TV!!

[ugen]

By golly, people - don't you have anything else to do with your lives then stare at an idiot's box all day and get brainwashed?

I sure hope they make another flag that makes it impossible for a program to be viewed on any compliant device, and then set it on all programming.

Re:STOP WATCHING TV!!

[Adapt or Die]

That's pretty funny coming from someone who's been on /. as long as your ID would indicate.

God forbid this place ever brainwashed anyone.

Re:STOP WATCHING TV!!

[ugen]

You are right - /. is extremely biased and full of silly propaghanda. Fortunately they are not at all skilled in making it inconspicuous, and so their agenda is clear as day. That makes it easy to ignore. More importantly, their information usefulness to brainwashing ratio is still acceptable, whereas the one for TV is not.

Broadcast Flag

[LinearBob]

First, you need to know what the 19.3 megabit DTV "Transport Stream" looks like. The "Broadcast Flag" is a small collection of bits embedded in "Transport Stream." DTV equipment will be required to watch (or listen) for those bits and take the appropriate action.

But suppose you know where those bits are, and what they mean, too. Why couldn't you simply flip the ones you don't like and then record or whatever? All you would need is a serial to parallel converter to turn the serial stream into a 16 bit parallel bus (for example) and them suck those bits into a DSP, where you do a little bit bashing. Then run them into a parallel to serial conervter to reconstruct the transport stream as seen by your digital disk recorder? If you have a commercially made unit, it will be looking for the flag bits, so it will know what it can or cannot do, but your freshly set bits tell it that this program is OK to record and play as long as you like.

I think such a device is likely to appear as a small plastic box with 2 firewire ports and a wall-wart, selling for $20 in a year or two.

Remember Macrovision on VHS? Do you know how easy that was to defeat? All you had to do was to make your VCR run with fixed video gain instead of AGC all the time. A little hardware hacking was all that was needed. This shouldn't be much worse. But don't try bit bashing after the compressed video is expanded. The data rate there is likely to be upwards of a gigabit, and most folks don't know how to make PCBs to handle stuff going that fast. This is precisely why the DRM folks want the interconnects to be 1 gigabit or faster. But remember, the "broadcast flag" must be readable in the 19.3 megabit transport stream.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[smartfart]

But suppose you know where those bits are, and what they mean, too. Why couldn't you simply flip the ones you don't like and then record or whatever?

That's illegal, according to these guys. DMCA and all that. Defeating their encryption scheme is against the law.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[wembley]

Defeating their encryption scheme is against the law.

Just because you can jimmy my Kryptonite lock with a Bic, that doesn't give you legal rights to take my bike.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[bar-agent]

Survival of the Fittest, baby! Your lock has just been selected against.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[Eil]

Dear Mr. LinearBob,

It has come to our attention that you have been willfully violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act on the website Slashdot by posting detailed tutorials that explain how to circumvent proprietary copyright-protection technology. You are ordered to cease your discussions on said web site immediately, turn off your computer, and wait on your living room couch for our arrival at your residence where you will then be taken into custody.

We'll be seeing you soon, Terrorist,
The MPAA

Re:Broadcast Flag

[runderwo]

The DMCA prohibits circumventing access controls on copyrighted works or trafficking in circumvention devices. It was created specifically for the purpose of ensuring that once measures like the broadcast flag were put into place, consumers would have to become criminals in order to circumvent those measures.

Re:Making me reconsider

[tverbeek]

This is one of the few unfortunate examples of complete bipartisanship in congress.

"Monopartisanship" would be more accurate. The democratic caucus and the republican caucus of the Business Party are both voting the party line on this issue.

Legislators

[Antony-Kyre]

Yes. The best thing we can do is stop electing those whom we always elect. Even if that means voting third party.

Re:Legislators

[superpulpsicle]

Well you got Democrats and Republicans. Ralph Nader in 3rd, mickey mouse in 4th every year. I think Iraq has more political choices now. There, you have it. No wonder the FCC have all that power. They only have to tap into 2 parties.

Re:Legislators

[hawk]

Nader beat Mickey Mouse this time??

Hey, things *do* change!

:)

hawk

Re:Making me reconsider

[Perl-Pusher]

What makes you think the democrats care either? Hollywood gives tons to the democrats. What needs to happen is a shock to the system. In 2006 vote out every incumbent regardless of party, catch the rest in 2008. Vote with preference to third parties who think the way you do. Unfortunately, there are way too many lemmings who will vote straight down the party lines. It's a two party system, but that there is guarantee which 2 parties. Any party can be replaced. Voters can make a difference, the problem is finding enough like minded people to actually use the power they have intelligently. The average idiot watching TV believes everything their told if it's repeated often enough.

If your conservative make your issues known, you can post to conservative blogs. If you can post intelligently enough for them to see your side of the issue others will discuss it. Unfortunately, most people will only see one side of the argument. The side that places anti-piracy ads on MTV or the Grammys. Money is a powerful thing to overcome but it takes getting off the couch, using your head, communicating effectively and most of all voting.

Remember the good ol days

[Anonymous Coward]

when people would gather at their neighbors house because they were the only one on the block with one of those new fangled talking picture box things? I have plenty of friends who's house I can go to and watch certain shows if I can't watch them on my old equipment at home.

What will people do?

[gillbates]

Probably what I've already done: Stop watching tv.

The ironic thing is that, as part of my job, I already know enough to build a broadcast flag filter. It doesn't seem too terribly difficult. To defeat the broadcast flag, one merely needs a high-frequency sampling circuit and a fast computer - you simply pull the signal from the tuner and ignore whatever bits you don't like. The signal itself is pretty easy to pick out from the "other" things - like Macrovision, broadcast flag, etc...

But why bother? Why spend time in front of the tv when you could be surfing the net, learning new things, and - gasp! - actually expanding your mind as opposed to turning it into a vegetable. There's a lot better content than what's on tv, and you'd probably be a better person for it.

How best to prepare

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop watching tv now. By July you won't even miss it.

From Above

[Ironsides]

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140255&cid =11747042
Costs $350 USA.

"constitutional fair use rights" ?

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

wtf are you talking about. search the text of the US Constitution and you will not find the phrase "fair use".

you seem to be talking about the generally held /interpretation/ that the language actually present in the constitution denotes a "fair use right" -- and much as the "right to privacy", the "right to own a handgun", "the right to choice", and the "right to have gay sex", anything up to interpretation is likely to be re-interpreted.

us freedom-loving people have had it high on the hog with the centralisation of power under a liberal government (except for gun rights). now that this centralised power is under conservative control we're shocked (shocked!) when the interpretation changes to our disliking. boo fscking hoo.

if we want a lasting right to fair use, to privacy, or whatever, we had better get it /in writing/ and not rely on changing interpretation or to wait and see which pile of lawyers has the bigger money pile.

if we don't want a powerful central government dictating law to us from their corporate puppeteers, then massive decentralisation of that power or, at least, less corrupt influences on that power, are needed. seriously, is there a more sure recipe for corruption than to put as much power in as few hands as possible? guess what, the Constitution never outlined plans to vest this much power in Washington, DC, but a rampant-running series of /interpretations/ centralising power not only left us with an FCC which could mandate the broadcast flag, it left us with not much choice other than to just take it in the arse when they mandate it. the FCC is just another massive government agency battling for tax dollars in a massive, misspent, misfortunate contest of penis size as budget cap.

Re:"constitutional fair use rights" ?

[Jherek Carnelian]

wtf are you talking about. search the text of the US Constitution and you will not find the phrase "fair use".


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Re:"constitutional fair use rights" ?

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

i'd quote the relevant section of the constitution granting congress the powers to "regulate commerce" and "grant exclusive rights" to content authors but it would be futile. again, the wording is open to interpretation, and all it takes are a few judges to decide that "yup, the broadcast flag could fall under these powers if you think about it".

also, the Xth amendment has largely been ignored for the better part of 100 years, and been chipped away at by power hungry politicians for nearly 100 years before that.

Re:"constitutional fair use rights" ?

[Kjella]

if we want a lasting right to fair use, to privacy, or whatever, we had better get it /in writing/ and not rely on changing interpretation

There is a reason the laws on fair use are so vague and lack substance, and the reason is simple: Define fair. It is as impossible to say "1. All criminals shall recieve a fair punishment. THE END" We have enumerated some rights, which are put into separate paragraphs. The remainder is what we call fair use. Let's take the criteria of fair use to extremes:

Private vs commercial
Whole vs part
Temporary vs permanent
Market reducing vs not market reducing

Imagine you gave away endless copies of the copyrighted works of others for free without compensation. It is not commercial, but is it fair? No. Is it fair to ban all private use? No.

Is it fair to give away say the odd bits of a show, and have someone else give the even bits? No, even though it is only part of the work. Is it fair to timeshift the show, even if it is the whole show? Yes.

Please, if you think you can enumerate the fair uses more than they are, please suggest the law. But don't think that you can enumerate each and every one of them. Fair will often come down to "reasonable" and "intent", neither are easy to put in law...

Kjella

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[Torontoman]

Yes... And be forced to watch nothing but Anne of Green Gables or Hockey Night in Canada since we only get 2 channels.

Just for information...

[daveschroeder]

...all of the Broadcast Flag plans were in motion up long before Bush became president, during Clinton's presidency. Clinton appointed Michael Powell to the FCC [when he became Chairman, he didn't get any more votes], Clinton signed the DMCA into law, and Fritz Hollings (D) (along with four other Democratic senators) is the sponsor of the CBDTPA (née SSSCA or "DMCA 2").

I'm not saying the parent is speaking to this specifically, but this is just a point of information for others who will no doubt ignorantly vomit out the opposite in this thread.

Re:Just for information...

[Anonymous Coward]

US politicians are not held liable by their parties and make decisions for the greater part based on either the information given to them by contributors to campaigns or simply by personal preferences- this applies to Presidents as well where they are not likely to be impeached for it. I understand the post was made to head off partisan arguments, but it seems a shame that the politicians are not held to the ideology of their party by the body of the party yet arguments are still framed on those lines. So then, the broadcast flag is due to the graft provided by the media cartels to politicians in the US; the way out is to destroy the market for those cartels but that is what they hope to prevent with this very action. How can it still be done? Not with violence, not with letter writing, but only through widespread and well organised non-violent protests on every issue simultaneously, with a rotating body of protesters so that none need loose their jobs.

Re:Just for information...

[Shalda]

So you're telling me that the real problem is the politicians. I've never really understood this "brodcast flag" to begin with. They're pushing for digital adoption by consumers then they throw this on at the last minute? I think that may be biggest reason I haven't seen many HDTV tuners for sale at my local retail outlets.

Also, as ATI points out on their page for the HDTV Wonder any device manufactured before July 1, 2005 is exempt, and you get the impression from their remarks that they're ramping up production because of this. I know I'll be buying one (or something similar) before then.

Re:Just for information...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon from a year or so ago, with the provided software, follows the broadcast flag. I was going to record a few seconds from a DVD the other day, and it told me I couldn't because of the broadcast flag. I think analog still worked, though.

So, ATI isn't saving us. Maybe it's just the software, though.

Re:Just for information...

[Orion_]

Clinton signed the DMCA into law

Yes, and the DMCA passed Congress without a single no vote. The Senate passed it 99-0, and the House passed it on a voice vote (which generally means that there wasn't any real opposition).

I don't know if the parent was attempting to point out that Democrats are solely to blame for things like the DMCA and the Broadcast flag or if he was trying to point out that both parties are to blame. It seems clear to me from the record that you can't blame things on just one party. People shouldn't get the impression that the Republicans have somehow been the guardians of our fair use rights against attacks conducted solely by the Democrats.

Re:Just for information...

[mefus]

This doesn't relieve the Bush adminstration of any responsibility for what happens on their watch and is therefore irrelevant, unless you want to inject hyperbole into the discussion and divide opinion along party lines. Get real.

Re:Just for information...

[tepples]

Clinton signed the DMCA into law

Could Clinton have stopped it? Which party controlled the 105th Congress?

Re:Just for information...

[InsaneGeek]

Ummm... and why exactly do you think he would have wanted to stop it? After the WIPO copyright treaty, the Clinton administration proposed the damn thing. Congress actually put some exceptions in place that Clinton did not (common carrier, etc). The author of the DMCA (Bruce Lehman) was apointed by Clinton to be commissioner of the patent & trade office.

Again why would Clinton want to veto legislation that basically his administration drew up to begin with?

Your post tried to make it sound like it was someone elses opinion, someone elses group; when in fact it was came directly from the people Clinton appointed, directly from the people in the patent & trade office. And somehow you are trying to say that he would want to veto it?

Re:Just for information...

[mikeboone]

FYI, Fritz Hollings is no longer in the Senate. I'm not sure what has become of the SSSCA stuff, hopefully it's dead.

Re:Just for information...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are simply overly antagonistic. The grandparent post simply provided information, to those that did not know, that the act passed with a higher percentage of support from the US legislature that a US president, any president, could not veto it with immunity. Your points do not contradict that statement, and are opposition to a proposed theoretical situation that provides a hint at the content of the link that is included in it.

Re:Just for information...

[InsaneGeek]

Really? Just a non-partisan information statement making jesture, ehhh???

Then why does the post contain just the link and the statement "Which party controlled the 105th Congress?" You'd have to have blinders on to not see the statement he's making there.

Re:Just for information...

[ralphclark]

Maybe it's just the software, though.

I doubt it. ATI must have been pretty rabid about copyright protection technology since forever. I may be wrong but I'm almost certain ATI were unique in implementing Macrovision in hardware on their graphics cards. There are plenty "underground" software tools on the net to eliminate macrovision on competing vendor's hardware but ATI cards are pretty much impossible to find circumvention tools for.

Re:Just for information...

[Qzukk]

I don't know if the parent was attempting to point out that Democrats are solely to blame for things like the DMCA

Of course not! The reason is because the Republicans have run out of excuses and turned to "Clinton sucked too so its OK!" when faced with the fact that their beloved president sucks as well (in perhaps different ways...).

Bush outright lying to the public? Hey, thats OK, Clinton committed perjury! Republicans taking away the freedom to watch CSI in a window on the server room computer while you're on lunch break? Thats OK, a Democrat signed the DMCA!

Maybe I should run for president. I'll just use the motto "I torture little animals, but its OK because the administration of the guy who came before me tortured Iraqis!" Who knows, maybe I'll win!

Pirate TV?

[eno2001]

Here's a concept:

1. We work hard on establishing a world wide WiFi network that isn't supplied or owned by ISPs, but is a collective non-profit organization.
2. Set up multiple membership levels with different requirements:

a. Standard users (just a regular WiFi access point to "catch the signal")
b. Operators (a bridging WiFi set up that connects several neighborhoods together)
c. Watchtower men (long range WiFi setups that can spam 20-50 miles to connect the Operators together)
d. Publishers (Centralized content hosting for free media perhaps in partnership with Wikimedia and the like)

3. Use this network to broadcast live and on/demand programming that is supplied and produced by any members

Ideally, this should really be multiple assocaited projects. The primary one being the non-profit that organizes the members of this wireless network. The other projects would be focused on creating content publishing software that would make it easy for anyone to publish video and audio, as well as education on creating media.

Barring any of that, a similar kind of network would probably grow tremendously if "Joe Average" learned that he could download the latest episodes of his favorite show using a WiFi peer-to-peer network...

So which is it going to be corporate America? Do you turn every citizen into a criminal, or do we find alternatives to your crap?

Re:Pirate TV?

[alienw]

You know why this will not work? Because nobody gives a flying fuck about the broadcast flag. Seriously, the last time I've taped a show off the air was, like, 10 years ago.

Re:Pirate TV?

[eno2001]

Don't tell me you're one of the fools who buys every TV series in box set form. How else are you supposed to timeshift programs? And if you're one of those "I don't even own a TV fools" then this conversation is at an end. Currently I use my PC to record TV shows for me and HDTV really hasn't sold me on being that much better than regular old NTSC S-video to make me want to shell out thosands of dollars to redo my system. So what's your answer? How do you currently time shift and archive your favorite shows (assuming you're a normal human being who likes to be entertained once in a while)?

Re:Pirate TV?

[DaveJay]

Reading his comment again (after reading yours), I'd say he meant that he doesn't record over-the-air broadcasts -- but that means he can still record cable and satellite.

Now, I don't know if he was trying to be funny, or if the broadcast flag really does apply only to over-the-air broadcasts (and not satellite/cable ones); I'll leave that for you to figure out. :)

Re:Pirate TV?

[eno2001]

AFAIK it applies to ALL televsion programming.

Re:Pirate TV?

[alienw]

The broadcast flag does not interfere with timeshifting AFAIK. It DOES interfere with making digital copies. If you don't need HDTV, you can still use the analog signal that comes out of the HDTV receiver box. The only thing it prohibits you from doing is making an unencrypted bit-by-bit copy.

Resist HDTV. Stick with an old analog TV...

[EnronHaliburton2004]

The Broadcast Flag doens't apply to analog TV, it only applies to HDTV.

I have an old analog TV which I bought in 1994. It works fine. Along with a decent Audio/Video Receiver, I can watch DVDs, video tapes, streams from the computer or 10 broadcast channels with some rabbit-ears. I can watch PBS, Lost and the local news (not sure why I bother with the local news).

Personally, I don't think that HDTV is worth it. The sets are still way too expensive, and I'm not going to spend $100 on a HDTV tuner just so I can watch the same program that I currently get for free. Why spend $1000 on a HDTV when you can get a perfectly fine analog TV for $150? Hello Credit Card society!

At some point, the FCC wants to shut off all analog TV transmission, and then auction off the analog TV spectrum to make a few bucks for the government.

If the FCC does shut down analog broadcasts, I'll simply stop watching broadcast TV. I'm not alone, and the TV broadcasters know this.

Although, I kind of doubt this will happen anytime soon--- there isn't enough demand for the HDTV sets yet, which means that the broadcasters must continue to broadcast in old-fashioned analog TV. I doubt that HDTV will make it into 90% of homes anytime soon.

naaahhhh just get a home screener setup

[Anonymous Coward]

1. 120 inch lcd panel
2. ultra hd digital tuner
3. tripod
4. hd handheld camcorder
5. play show on tv in ultra hd
6. record on camcorder
7. put camcorder recording on archival optical disc
8. watch archival optical disc endlessly

Re:naaahhhh just get a home screener setup

[Ruzty]

I just use a Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge. I appears to my machine as a DV camcorder. It takes a video input signal and converts it to raw DV. I can do with the result what I wish. I generally use it for recording stuff from my DirecTiVo and burning DVDs from the DV. $DEITY bless iMovie, iDVD and my PowerBook.

I bought it originally to keep using my 8mm video camera instead of buying an $800 (at the time) DV camcorder. I've found tons of other uses for the thing now.

Not be a cynic but...

[sterno]

The problem with this logic is that congress critters do not get elected or rejected based on their positions on obscure issues like the FCC broadcast flag. I am very concious of problems like this, the DMCA, etc, and I can say with certainty that I have never voted for or against a candidate because of these issues.

Things like health care, the war in iraq, social security, etc, are infinitely more important than whether I can back up a copy of the Matrix. So it's going to be difficult to convince a candidate that their re-election is dependent on such an issue because, realistically, it isn't.

There are two forces that work in politics, one is the ability to mobilize people, and the other is money (used to mobilize people to vote for you). It seems that, with an issue like this, there's neither the ability to mobilize enough voters, nor enough money to reasonablly counteract the efforts of the broadcasters. So while you may be able to convince a few individual congressman with letters, it's very very unlikely to reach a critical mass such that the broadcasters cannot stop it.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[ArsonSmith]

I don't remember being able to vote for head of the FCC. I only see a few major positions and then they pick everyone else. What if I like Democrat views on FCC regulation but republican views on foreign policy??? Nope it's all or nothing. I say vote for every single frigging government official. If you have a title other than administrative assistant or janitor you need to be voted in, and I don't mean by a blanket vote for one person.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[geoffspear]

These days, it doesn't even matter if the issues are obscure or not; members of Congress don't get elected based on the issues at all. They get elected if they happen to live in a district that their party managed to gerrymander well enough to guarantee them a seat. The number of competitive congressional districts is just depressing. In most of the districts around here, only one party even bothers to run a candidate at all. Do you think my Democratic representative or the Republican in the next district over cares about what his constituents think, when he was elected with 99% of the vote? Especially when they can make the convincing argument in the primaries that replacing them with another member of the same party will just cut down on the amount of federal spending in the district because the new guy won't have seniority?

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[Grotus]

Holy cow, do you have any idea how many people are employed by the federal government?

Here's a slight hint, there are currently 16,325 job openings posted on USAJOBS. How many special elections do you think we'll need to fill all those jobs?

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[J.R. Random]

Given the state of "democracy" in the United States, it's pretty damn sick that we've invaded another country to bring them the same thing.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[gcatullus]

I agree with your sentiments, but only if you did vote, and only if you voted your choice and not for the canidate that you thought would win.

That being said, letters can and do make a differnce sometimes. If a canidate is on the fence about an issue, hearing from enough constituents can make a difference.

Also, unless you send a letter expressing what you feel about an issue you have no business bitching about it.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[geoffspear]

To be fair, it looks to me like the political system we're giving them is better than ours, because it doesn't feature 2 strong parties that just need a plurality to grab all the power. They can actually vote for someone who they agree with, instead of the lesser of 2 evils, and have a hope of a coalition government that might try to satisfy their interests.

Of course, the whole system is likely to collapse violently sooner or later, since they lack the social infrastructure for democracy. Until then it will be nice to have another example of how a democracy should work.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[LittleBigLui]

Why not vote for issues instead of people?

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[ArsonSmith]

As shown here is Arizona that doesn't seem to work at all.

Issue: reject smokeing ban. Passed by voters shot down by city.

Issue: stop illegal immigrants from taking social services. Passed by voters shot down by state

plus many others over the years.

Re:Not be a cynic but...

[LittleBigLui]

Take a look at Switzerland, seems to work pretty well there, as far as i can tell (not from switzerland though).

Ween yourself from the [Boob] Toob.

[Anonymous Coward]

OK. So you've established that TV isn't a complete wasteland. So let's move on to the next question. Is the broadcast flag going to be universal? Will PBS use it? How about the big three? Pay per a view? And considering America has a near universal culture of "getting what I want (legal and otherwise)". What makes people think the broadcast flag will last long? The very first Broadcast flag enabled Superbowl will kill it.

Re:Making me reconsider

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your forgetting one thing, to a Congressman whoever gives them the most money is always right. Weather they be Republican, Democrat, etc ...

Right. Because you can tell by looking.

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, it is against the "rules" for software DVD players to capture single frames of DVD's when they play them.

Yet the most popular DVD player has this built-in.

Funny how that all works.

Its a good bet that there will be plenty of non-compliant hardware. The real difficulty is that you won't have this capability in consumer grade equipment.

And people will really believe they don't have that right because Michael Powell sold our rights out to Mega Corporations in exchange for a cushy job after he quits.

Its funny that somebody as amoral as Michael Powell gets to enforce morality on the air. Tragic. But funny.

If Techies Are Interested in Fair Use...

[reallocate]

...why don't they get busy and invent a way to permit duplication of digital files onto physical media that also prevents duplication over a network?

You can just barely make a plausible fair use case about unlimited personal copying of an entire work for personal use, but even Lessig draws the line at hosting digitized works on servers that permit unlimited duplication by all comers. I.e., you have no fair use right to allow unlimited numbers of strangers to make unlimited duplicates of a work to which you do not hold the copyright.

The TV and movie folks are worried about people making thousands of DVD's for their personal use (who would?). They're worried about their products being almost instantly made available for unlimited duplication by anyone across the globe.

Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

I must say I am impressed! How long did it take to write that post? Hours, I would guess. And how long have you been saving it, waiting for the right time to ctrl-x it into a post?

You are certainly a person who plans ahead! You are also an asshole.

Producers should not be enslaved to the Consumers

[Dana P'Simer]

Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long. IP should not go into the public domain untill the copyright holders chose for it to or the applicable law forces it to.

What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture? Did you create it? Did you exert a single creative impulse to make it come into being? No, it was the copyright holders. Sure many of them did not actually create the material either but the material's creator gave them the copyright in exchange for, what they considered, fair compensation. You have no right to stand there demanding free access to the IP that someone else created on the basis that it is "your culture". What arrogance!

I create plenty of IP as I am a software engineer and your attitude smells of slavery. You want to force the IP creators to give away thier creations so that you do not have to expend any effort in acquiring it your self. That amounts to the producers becomeing the slaves of the consumers and that is wrong.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, the Open Source movement has got this right. The Producers ( open source developers amoung which, I count myself ) have choosen to release thier software under a license that grants the consumers ( open source software's users ) the right to use it free of charge. When the artists/producers choose to do the same thing, then you can copy it around to your heart's content. But until then, you are a thief if you overstep the bounds of fair use. Fair use does not include making copies whole copies for others' to use with out paying.

The problem with the broadcast flag is that it impinges on fair use. Fair use allows me to make a copy of something for my own use and keep it indefinately but the broadcast flag requires that the recording be deleted after a proscribed interval. This is wrong and should be fought against.

The government's so evil

[hackwrench]

It doesn't matter who you elect anymore. I'm almost begging Osama bin Ladin to attack the U.S. again, but suspect he's just as bad. The media lies to us. I'd move to a different country, but the U.S. cripples people like me to make that impossible, not to mention the logistics of getting real information on other countries. You think China censors information? The thing is that the U.S. pulls the wool over people's eyes so that they think that it doesn't. http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/webreporterzx s11.htm http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22a+partisan +question

Re:The government's so evil

[Joe Tie.]

Could you clarify what you mean by 'people like you'? I'm an American getting married to a Canadian, and we've both been working on getting dual citizenship for the others country. It's not been easy by any means, time consuming as hell, and I imagine there's many circumstances that would make it more so, but it's certainly possible for most people. It's even more possible if you're willing to throw some money at a lawyer to work for you.

Re:The government's so evil

[hackwrench]

All I know is that I'm on disability(SSI), yet managed to get an associates degree, yet find certain aspects of the world overwheming/downright bizarre.

There are a ton of so-called Christians that claim to believe in the Bible, yet fail to follow the commandment to bring the Earth under their submission.

The psychiatric institute "The Nord Center" has me under their thumb. Due to their ministrations, I had what they termed a "Psycotic episode" during which I attempted to clean the carpets of my apartment with water, but was prevented from drying properly by the Lorain Police department.

Also I was brought up on charges of tampering with the boiler to all the apartments(4), which ?I believe the thieves did to get me out of the apartment.

I had 2 laptop computers: 600mhz Gateway, 2Ghz Toshiba, and a PS2 stolen by one visitation by theives. After I was put into the hospital, the thieves came and went as they pleased.

Between the Nord Center and the Apartment complex owners New Sunrise, there have been talks of me paying New Sunrise back for damages that I have as yet been uninformed of.

There are people that work for both Nord Center and New Sunrise.

crack the broadcast flag

[fred fleenblat]

Has anyone looked into decrypting the broadcast-flagged data streams? Judging by past efforts of the home entertainment and media industries to secure their content, there's a good chance that the broadcast flag will be irrelevant in a couple of months.

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

and since there is no hockey, we just get Anne of Green Gables, of Avonlea, of etc...

Lost?

[DrCode]

Hmmm... Is that the one where a bunch of people get stranded on an island? I seem to recall there was a professor, and a millionaire, and his wife...

Re:Lost?

[Anonymous Coward]

(and it's NOT reality tv)

Yes it is. It's just scripted reality TV. They just slightly tweaked the idea a bit ("hey, a scripted survivor...") to make it more interesting.

This is a flame. Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

"do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us."

Oh brother. This is really just dumb.

You have the right to tape programs off the air. You have the right to share them with your friends.

Why you think this is stealing is really a testament to a con job pulled on you. You surrender your rights freely without protest. You mention "IP rights" and you can't even define what that means.

You are the problem. Not some guy taping "Gilmore Girls" and sharing them with his girlfriends.

But in a bigger sense, the real problem is that the laws relating to copyright are heavily weighted to favor large mega corporations. They don't help the public, they don't help the creator. They help the networks.

Some people don't buy into it. They tape programs. They loan them to their friends. They may even put up a torrent. That doesn't not make them thieves or outlaws. It makes them *ordinary*.

Re:Ding-dong: It's the postman...

[91degrees]

Yes, because it's impossible for them to ever conceivably have a valid point.

How about answering the question! What could you legally do before that the broadcast flag prevents?

Lost in the sauce

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the problem: There are so many issues a person might want to decide on that they all cancel out. Even *if* one candidate were officially against the flags, I would have to care about the flags more than *any other issue* on which I might disagree with that candidate.

Since even finding a serious candidate in your state who's for fair-use is a dicey proposition, voting really doesn't address the issue here.

The only thing that address the issue, in America, is issue-tied campaign contributions. "Here is my donation to your election campaign. I'd like you to consider the importance of issues A, B, and C." That works even for little people. $100 goes surprisingly far in registering the importance of the issue to you.

I've stopped watching TV

[Nonillion]

The only time I watch TV is when I rent or watch DVDs. There is NOTHING I want to watch on TV. And now that the broadcasters got the FCC to ram the broadcast flag down our throats I will not subscribe to anything. I will buy a HDTV eventually, but it will be used as a monitor only. In the meantime, my 27" Sony works just fine for now.

Idealism...

[C10H14N2]

Something like this takes a very well organized campaign to be successful. There are only 58 representatives that are truly in control of this issue. For 87% of the electorate, writing a letter to Congress is a pretty fruitless endeavor.

It is much, much more complex than "oh, you elected them, you can un-elect them." Well, one voter has sway with only 0.2% of the legislature, and that 0.2% influence still only has a 13% (58:435) chance of having a 1.7% (1:58) chance to get the issue out of committee...and even still, to your rep, you're political weight is roughly 1:337931, probably less if you're in a well gerrymandered district where they aren't at risk of losing their seat anyway (read: almost all of them). They know this, so "you'll lose my vote" carries about as much weight as a square of wet single-ply toilet paper.

Old equipment

[Anonymous Coward]

Just keep your old equipment around... until it broke, I had a pre-macrovision VCR laying around that could playback second generation copy protected tapes no problem.

Yes. It's the theives.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're also the reason nothing has, or probably ever will, return to the public domain. It has nothing to do with innovation being more expensive than just buying politicians to preserve monopolies. It's the theives.

Here's an interesting observation. DVD's are still made in China where everyone knows there will be a lot of knockoffs produced as good as the legimate copies, because it's the same people making them on the same equipment in the same facilities. China doesn't care about the theft of other companies intellectual property, and appearently neither do those companies if they're still doing their fabrication in Asia. That's where the real piracy, not the mythical lost opportunity piracy, is done. But for everyone involved, except the consumers, it's just one of the costs of doing business. But when you go across the pacific, all of a sudden media companies feel like you should be forced to buy a CD or DVD for every player you want to use it in. It's costing them sales!! Wah.

Fuck them. Mickey Mouse deserves every horrible thing he gets, as do the shareholders. It's our market, they stole it, corrupted it, and have you blaming the reasonable reactions of the masses who aren't getting what they pay for, and only forsee a future where they get less. Ripping off the media companies is every bit as noble as ripping off the East India company. And the people don't pretend to be "Indians" in an effort to deflect blame.

Re:wha

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee... The /. servers are in the USA. The people that run /. are in the USA. /. is only available in English.(Yes, I know other countries speek that language as well, just using it to narrow down things) /. was originally only read by people in the USA. I can't understand at all why people would speek about things as if 90+% of the readership knew what they were talking about?

It's being challenged in court

[Iphtashu Fitz]

A number of groups like the EFF, American Library Association, etc. are all challenging the broadcast flag in court. With a bit of luck it's implementation will be delayed or even stopped.

Re:It's being challenged in court

[lexiconographolologi]

Has the EFF ever won _anything_? Seriously?

Re:It's being challenged in court

[Iphtashu Fitz]

Sure, they've won lawsuits:

• Lexmark v. Static Controls - just mentioned here on /. - an attempt by Lexmark to distort the use of the DMCA.
  
• DVD CCA v. Bunner et. al. - the lawsuit over DeCSS.
  
• JibJab v. Ludlow - a music publisher that challenged JibJab's right to parody, claiming they owned the copyright to "This Land is Your Land".
  
  In the Lexmark case they only apparently filed amicus briefs. In the DVD-CCA one they funded and coordinated the defense. In the last one they filed a complaint against the company that was threatening JibJab.
  
  There's plenty more listed on the EFF's own web site if you had bothered to look it up.
  
  Shall I continue?

Re:It's being challenged in court

[LesPaul75]

This is truly an interesting case, and it marks a significant point in American history. The broadcast flag is obviously, blatantly, hideously un-American, but whether or not it stands will be decided based solely on how much of our legal system is owned by Hollywood. If I were a gambler, I would put my money on Hollywood. It's pessimistic, I know, but I think we've already crossed the bridge and there's no turning back. I say that based on the fact that ridiculous things like DMCA and INDUCE have/will become law.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

The "applicable laws" always seem to be ammended to a longer interval just before they force large corporations IP into the public domain. For some funny reason.

It's the conflict that arises when the laws are no longer shaped by the need to protect the rights and liberties of its citizens, and are instead bent to protect wealthy non-entities that exist only to milk as much money as possible. The fact that these same companies are able to use the laws which were intended to protect the public's access to IP to have a perpetual stranglehold on it is ludicrous.

Referendums?

[spectro]

Is there a mechanism in this country for the peple to to throw out bad laws?, something like putting proposition on ballots. I know some states have stuff like that (California recall anyone?). I think we can fix all the laws passed by lobbyist, campaing contributors and bribed congressman.

Re:Referendums?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Is there a mechanism in this country for the peple to to throw out bad laws?"

Yes, but because it also requires throwing the baby out with the bath water, things have to become much, much worse before it goes into effect.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

The US Constitution says that copyright exists for the benefit of the public. If you would like to change the Constitution, go for it.

one more reason to not watch public tv

[Anonymous Coward]

frankly I could give a rats ass. the main networks suck so bad anyways. since I watch cable, there won't any such thing. even then, if cable decides to use it, then I just won't watch TV. they can go screw themselves.

No Fair Use

[SenorPez]

There are no fair use laws in the United States. Of course, watching a legal discussion on Slashdot is like watching two midgets boxing... funny, but ultimately worthless.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[WH]

Who let you out from under the bridge?

We aren't consumers. We're citizens.

[Anonymous Coward]

"What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture?"

Copyright is a balance. It says the content creator puts his work into the public (thus becoming part of the culture) in return, the government will limit the ability for people to lawfully copy the content.

And after a limited time, the work belongs to everyone.

That's the deal.

If you, as an author, don't like the deal, then don't put it on TV, Radio, and every bit of mass media.

You can argue all you want. But I'm telling you what copyright really is. It isn't about ownership, its about people copying.

Albert Einstein discovered E=MC^2. But it doesn't belong to him. It belongs to you and me. Happy Birthday is copyrighted. But it belongs to the culture. The Wizard of Oz is copyrighted. But it belongs to the culture.

That's simply the nature of ideas, and you, nor I, nor any law can change that.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Broadcast Flag already here

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm already the owner of an ATI 9700 AIW (with TV tuner) bought in Canada. A couple of months ago, I mistakenly recorded the wrong channel (PPV). Turns out the card wouldn't record. The error message indicated something like "cannot record protected content...". Anyway, just to let you know that the broadcast flag is probably already in effect in ATI drivers and that content providers have probably started using it.

As of a few days ago it does...

[Iphtashu Fitz]

QAM support was added to the HD-3000 DVB drivers recently. There's a thread about it in their supoprt forum. Unfortunately their site is agonizingly slow right now (/. effect?) otherwise I'd post a link to it.

Re:As of a few days ago it does...

[Iphtashu Fitz]

Here's the link to their QAM support announcement.

2 ways: Right before the DA or not watch at all.

[LosManos]

hi.

The simplest solution is to stop watching television. I got bored of television some 10 years ago. I took it up again last autumn but lost interest.
I guess this is not feasible for everyone.

Next thing is the observation that somewhere there is a DA converter where the input side is digital and the output side is analogue. And as long as there isn't any unbreakable decryption technique buried inside the DA converter the solution is simply to read the input side of the DA converter.

This is also the same reason that copy protection will never work. Somewhere the digital data has to be converted to analogue so all you have to do is to nick the data right there.

I guess this text will render it impossible for me to get a visa to the USA...

FWIW /OF

Let hollywood fuck themselves... Who cares really?

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

The broadcast flag is designed to control content due to the success of TV shows on DVD sales. Also factor in the nice high resolution broadcast quality versions you could be saving/recording instead of buying on HD DVD... :) They just dont want you to record what you've already paid for. And yes sitting through commercials during a tv show is paying for a tv show. Afterall, they dont get advertising money for tv shows if they didnt have our ratings numbers. Hey according to the FCC, Them's is our airwaves! ;) HAHAHAHAHA. As if fucking over the entire public wasnt enough for the FCC, spitting that bullshit back in our faces should have resulted in riots ;)

I think the real shame is that as a result of this broadcast flag, Hollywood will simply fuel an entire underground HD-TV show swaping network on the internet.

There will be 10x the amount of traded HD-TV shows being swapped online. There will be a huge demand for those who can provide recorded versions of your favorite tv show.

Dont these companies realize that the more they squeeze the people, the more willing the people are to fuck them back?

We're a country of rebelling bastards, its what we do best :)

So let the corperations continue to own and control our government. It's nothing new. We've already lost that war years ago.

Hollywood, say hello to the larger than ever, more elite than ever, more unstoppable than ever, and more right than ever... underground HD-TV show scene that you have created. Way to learn from the past, you fucking morons (hollywood).

Mod parent up.

[Anonymous Coward]

I really like the way he chose to phrase this.
**AA is constantly calling us thieves, even though in the worst case, it is copyright infringement, not theft.
A far closer approximation of theft is being perpetrated on the public, by these very same companies. They are lobbying to keep things from entering the public domain. This is theft of our legacy (not that it's all worth keeping).

Extension of copyright is yet another means of ensuring that the gap between rich and poor is going to grow larger. It is the rich people of today packaging up culture as a gift for the rich people of tomorrow.

Re:wha

[northcat]

So, you think 90% of slashdot's readership is from USA?

shame we can't moderate the front page postings

[Ryunosuke]

Is there a way to mod the Op as flamebait, or no?

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Zangief]

The copyright holders payed the congress to extend copyrights, so copyright lasts a loooooong time after the creators have died.

That strikes me as unfair, unethical and even illegal. Trying to avoid this new law, is just fighting fire with fire.

(how come they paid the congress? they just gave $$$ to the campaigns of the necessary people. Basically, they bought their votes. That is not democracy).

Here are good options

[dowobeha]

1. Buy an HDTV card now.

pcHDTV 3000 from here

Air2PC from here or here

2. When you're ready, build a computer for MythTV. Use this guide, look here for HDTV tips, and ask questions on this mailing list. You can also search for answers on the mailing list archive.

3. You say that Myth isn't all you want. I think you're wrong. Here's what it can do:

It can record analog content from cable, satellite, and over-the-air broadcasts.

It can record digital content from over-the-air broadcasts, including HDTV.

It can record unencrypted digital content over firewire from some digital cable boxes.

Using free tools that come with MythTV, you can cut commercials and export any recording from MythTV to a number of different formats, including Divx, Xvid, VCD, SVCD, and DVD.

4. Here's what it can't do:

Myth can't record encrypted digital content from digital cable or digital satellite. Keep in mind that no PC-based solution can do this. The only possible ways to do record content from these sources in digital format are to use a black-box solution (usually) provided by the cable or satellite company or to put on your black hacker hat and crack the encryption. If you choose the former, odds are slim and none that you will be able to export the recordings.

unnecessary.

[redfenix]

No video format that I know of supports a broadcast flag. I.e. if you record it to an mpeg file, the mpeg file has no knowledge of the flag. It will be just another mpeg. In fact, the EFF's article on the FCC's ruling states nothing about a recording format to support the flag, only restricted video ouputs based on the flag while receiving.

Re:unnecessary.

[His name cannot be s]

.dvr-ms files support the use of a broadcast flag.

It's Microsoft's MCE file format, which in itself is an ASF container with some more metadata. :()

Obvious

[WetCat]

I, for one, welcome our broadcast flag-waving overlords!

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[gurps_npc]

You are missing the main point. Most of us are perfectly happy to grant IP a reasonable amount of protection. Most of us are perfetly happy to grant IP use up until the legal maximum AT THE TIME OF CREATION.

The problem is that scumbags keep retroactively increasing the length of protection, and that is cheating

Why is it cheating? Because the people that BUY your IP do so at a set price with the assumption that after they wait x # of years the stuff they bought today will be theres to do with what they want. That is one of the decisions they made when they bought it.

Example: Lets say that in 1968 I purchased one of the original film reals of star trek, for say $5,000. I get to watch it myself, but I can't charge cash to others to see it... YET. For just myself, it would only be worth $4,500. But I know that in 20 years, it will be a rare commodity and I will be free to charge people to see the film. My $5,000 is an INVESTMENT.

now 10 years later, some scumbag lier has convinced congress to change it from 20 years to 50 years. I just lost my investment.

The real problem is HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO PAY INVENTORS/CREATORS for their work.

And while they are certainly entilted to a fair price, we - as the PURCHASERS of that work are entitled to negotiate a fair price - and that price includes a limit on how long you hold the rights to it. May be it should be shorter, maybe it should be longer, but once our society sets a reasonable time limit and you "accept that condition" and create the IP, there is NO POSSIBLE, FAIR REASON to change it. That is just thievery by cheating, greedy scumbags. It is no better than if Ford suddenly decides to extend the 5 year rental agreement with an option to buy after 5 years to a 10 years rental agreement, after you already signed the papers.

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

All the men in Canada will be gay because of lack of hockey. Because we all know it is hockey that keeps them straight. ;-)

That's a temporary solution...

[C0deM0nkey]

I bought the pcHDTV card and am building a Gentoo MythTV box around it, heres a HOW-TO. MythTV can record your programs to DVD if you like as well as many other things.

And what are you going to do when your pcHDTV card fries itself, hmmm? It will happen eventually and unless something has changed you will be forced to purchase a card that is broadcast-flag aware and you will be screwed.

Don't discount it because its marxist but: unless the proletariat (the common man) rises up against the owners of the means of production (the corporations who control the "content" distribution channels) and wrest those means of production from them (via burners, electronic distribution, etc.) this type of breach of rights will continue to repeat itself. Marx even warned that the owners of the means of production, when faced with innovation that threatened their monopolies, would turn to the law in order to secure their control and to maintain the status quo. At some point, unless something drastically changes, you will be forced to ask yourself whether the right to unfettered access to content is worth the risk of significant fines and jail time. It will happen; at this point, only a significant revolution against the "owners" can prevent it. Something has to gain the ear of those who are supposed to represent the people and fight for the rights of the people.

I, myself, am caught in the middle. I do not condone the unlicensed use of materials created by others - the people who created those materials deserve to get paid even if it is a mere fraction of what they should receive. I also do not condone the "limitless" copyrights granted by our (US) laws. So...I choose not to play. My wife and I do not purchase much music; we do not subscribe to cable or watch commercial television. We do purchase movies - primarily because I find it easier to get behind the position of the MPAA and am not opposed to renting movies or seeing movies in a "B" theater before I make the decision to purchase. FWIW, though, the cost of purchasing a DVD is now cheaper than the cost of two movie theater tickets, one drink and one popcorn so we tend to wait for movies to come out to DVD before going to the theater.

Re:Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Carnivàle

[Anonymous Coward]

"Battlestar Galactica MAY have jumped the shark when Starbuck piloted a Cylon fighter into outer space with nothing more than duct-tape covering the hole in its side."

She didn't use duct tape, she used (it looked like) something like a jacket, since there would of been the huge pressure difference, it would of been lodged in there really good and long as it was large enough that it wouldn't be pushed out, theoretically it COULD work.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Alien Being]

"IP should not go into the public domain untill the copyright holders chose for it to or the applicable law forces it to."

That's a circular argument. You're saying that the law should exist because it's the law.

If you don't want "your IP" to be public, then keep it tucked away in a corner of your mind. Take it to the grave if you want. If you want to put "your IP" into the marketplace, the public is willing to protect your work within reasonable limits.

The problem in recent years is that deciding what's reasonable is being left up to people who are clearly biased.

A monkey has the right to copy what he sees other monkeys doing. Shouldn't humans have equivalent rights?

There was a court hearing today

[enrico_suave]

Oral arguments and such...

this guy went to the oral arguments re: the Broadcast Flag case and blogged about it.

The FCC's stance seems to be that if they don't currently have the legislative mandate to do this now, they'll just go out and get it (easily)... which is worrysome, imho.

e.

You are forgetting...

[harrkev]

Your numbers sound about right. But you are forgetting something...

100% of the people who pay for cable are the ones who pay for cable! This might sound odd, but let me explain. The broadcast flag does not HAVE to be enabled at the source. The broadcasters can turn it on and off. If HBO started using the broadcast flag, they might change their minds if 10% of the people both wrote letters AND canceled their service. Men, you can grab by the balls. Companies, you grab by the wallet. The problem is that consumers TOLERATE this stuff. If ABC doesn't let you TIVO, then don't watch. Networks live and die by Nielson ratings.

I dumped all cable and broadcast TV over a year ago. I get my movies from Blockbuster, and I get my news from news.yahoo.com. I am happy.

Re:You are forgetting...

[NShade]

Indeed, my solution is not depending on media companies. Admittedly, I'm deaf, so music isn't as important to me as it is to a lot of people. Either way, though, I can go without it quite easily. :)

As far as TV goes, I prefer to just not let it control my life. I have a few shows that I enjoy and watch regularly, primarily on Food TV and the History Channel. Despite that, I don't particularly care if I miss them. I don't rush home to make sure I can see them. If I'm there to watch and actually remember to turn on the TV, fine. If not, it's rarely any big loss.

If I didn't watch TV, I'd do more of what I already do -- read, write, talk to friends online, visit friends in real life, go for a bike ride, cook, those sorts of things. Real life can be pretty fun. :)

I'm debating taking the same approach you did -- dump TV entirely and rent movies. I get my news online, anyway.

Re:You are forgetting...

[C10H14N2]

...I didn't forget that at all, I just didn't address that side of the issue because it wasn't part of the parent post I was responding to.

The action you state is precisely that which I take with anything like this: I simply don't buy crap I neither need nor want and that includes ridiculous TOS or engineered crippling. If people refuse to buy crippled crap, companies won't produce it and will be forced to alter their business models to the market...but convincing the masses to stop consuming crap is more difficult than lobbying congress.

If only people had an ounce of self-control, we'd have a much, much different market...

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

I create plenty of IP as I am a software engineer and your attitude smells of slavery. You want to force the IP creators to give away thier creations so that you do not have to expend any effort in acquiring it your self. That amounts to the producers becomeing the slaves of the consumers and that is wrong.

First of all, I have a degree in EE but I currently work designing large software systems. I would never dare call what I do "software engineering". That's an insult to real engineers. But that's a rant for another day. Oh and I get paid by the hour. My labor is a scarce resource and people pay for it. If they want to put the results on the internet I couldn't care less.

You've got it wrong buddy. Maybe you read one too many Ayn Rand novels. Nobody is "forcing" these people to do anything. In fact, I wish all these content producers who keep threatening us with less content if we keep "stealing" would hurry up and go flip burgers already.

You seem to think people have a right to earn a living doing whatever they do. But you've got capitalism upside-down and backwards. The right you have is to *choose your job* and *keep what you earn*. A free marketer isn't supposed to ask the government to make sure something that's worth $0.25 costs $20. That's stretching the concept a little too far.

If somebody makes a sequence of bits available to me, I'm going to do whatever I feel like with it. Except claim that I created it. If the bit-sequencer doesn't like it, he can find another job. There's plenty more like him, even though he'd probably like to believe he's really special.

Fair use does not include making copies whole copies for others' to use with out paying.

Oh I get it now. You've decided that although the content providers have put some limits in place, you disagree with the limits. You'll use "fair use" as your rationalization. Even though fair use is strictly a defense against copyright infringement, and not any other laws like the DMCA or contract law. If you violate the DMCA you are still breaking the law. If you violate the terms of service, you are a thief.

So the MPAA looks at you, stealing their work with your gentoo box, probably violating an agreement, and laughs at your fair use defense. They also look at the other folks who share TV shows, trying to use the same defense. You'll probably share a cell in the MPAA penal colony of the future, eh?

I'm sticking with the belief shared by Alan Greenspan and other free-market thinkers: if a contract is very difficult to enforce, it's probably not a good contract.

I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[metamatic]

So long as the broadcast flag only applies to HDTV, I don't give a crap, because I've already decided I have zero interest in HDTV. And yes, I've seen it.

There's no point having the shows in high resolution if they're still packed full of ads, have ugly station logos in the corner, and are mostly crap. There are maybe three stations I'd care to watch in HD, and it would pump the cost of cable or satellite to over $50 a month to get those stations in HD plus the handful of other channels I watch, so I'm not interested.

Movies I watch on DVD.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[JustNiz]

ummm noo... it applies to all dtv.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[boristdog]

Thank god someone besides me isn't going ape-shiite over HDTV.

Heck, since I can get all my favorite shows (Futurama, Family guy, Simpsons, Mythbusters, etc) and movies on DVD, I don't even watch TV any more. I canceled my DirecTV and only watch about two or three hours of DVDs per week nowadays. Life is better.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[metamatic]

Well, I don't really care about DTV in general. So long as plain ol' low-res cable and satellite keep working, that's good enough.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[metamatic]

I've considered the DVD option, but you can't get The Daily Show on DVD, and there's a lot of good stuff on Cartoon Network that hasn't made it to DVD yet.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[JustNiz]

Well analog tv is planned to cease entirely soon (cant remember the date exactly but not far away).

That presumably means no-one will be making new analog TV's or analog equipment either.

Re:I'm ready: I don't give a crap

[metamatic]

Analog TV won't cease until the vast majority of the US citizens have digital sets. I don't see that ever happening if switching to digital means you can't record and play back shows as you please like with an analog set.

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and get taxed till your balls fall off...AND when you need real medical care...sneak back into the US.

Fucking dope.

Thinking outside the box

[Rinzai]

If you play Everquest, City of Heroes, Asheron's Call, or any of the other myriad MMORPGs, you don't need television.

Consider further: [I]Three's Company[/I] in high-def is still, well, [I]Three's Company[/I]. There are very few offerings--even on cable and satellite--outside of sports that aren't utter crap, and your mileage may vary on the exclusion of sports from that.

"Oh no--they're taking my crap away!"

Bleh.

Re:Thinking outside the box

[Rinzai]

One of these days I'm going to learn not to mix HTML markup and UBBCode in a single posting.

Re:Thinking outside the box

[sabat]

If you play Everquest, City of Heroes, Asheron's Call, or any of the other myriad MMORPGs, you don't need television.

But just watching TV, you can't be ganked. =:-O

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[d34thm0nk3y]

What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture? Did you create it?

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long.

Wow, Walt Disney is still alive? What great news!

hell, if logic isn't enough for you the damn thing is enumerated in the constitution itself:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Andrewkov]

I don't believe anyone buys a movie based on the fact that in 20 years the copyright will expire. An interesting point, but I don't buy it. Anyway, changing gears slightly, I always wondered what would happen if (or when) the technology exists to completely lock down all copyright material so there is no way to reproduce it. Will people totally lose interest in the mass media? I think a certain amount of fair use and illegal copying actually help to drive the popularity of alot of artists. I think a total lock down would trigger a huge boom for independant artists and filmakers. I mean, if kids can't get an illegal copy of Briteny Spears latest album, they'll find something else to get hooked on.

Simple Solution

[ironicsky]

Stupid Broadcast Flag Tuner Device -> Regular VCR or DVR.

The tuner is going to tune with the broadcast flag. As long as the device your using as the "output" such as a TV, VCR, or other proper equipment, you wont have a problem.

On a second note. Will you PLEASE fix your government down there in America. The rest of us are getting annoyed with having to put up with bs crap to benefit american companies because your citizens are too lazy to make a difference.

TURN OFF THE TV

[Joules Burn]

It works everytime. No tv, no tv hassles.

No letters; start a band

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously; we need alternatives. Start making copyleft free (like freedom) music. Make videos. Use CC-SA licensing. Set up an internet radio station which refuses to play anything which isn't free.

Let people see that copying is a good thing.

only if you can receive broadcast hdtv

[dpilot]

But what value is the pcHDTV-3000 if you can't receive broadcast, anyway? Due to construction in the area, or NTSC broadcast quality degraded over the years to the point where we finally got cable.

I like the idea of the pcHDTV-3000, but since I can't get a decent NTSC signal, I figure that by the time I get HDTV, it'll be over cable or satellite. In either of those cases, it'll need to be some sort of proprietary box, and the pcHDTV card will stay on the shelf collecting dust. (or get sold on eBay - step3: profit!)

The FCC dosn't care.

[delmoi]

Remember the consolidation wars? The FCC got thousands and thousands of letters opposing the action, and micheal powell actualy basicaly said "Well, if the NRA and the ACLU are both opposed then obviously there's nothing wrong with it." Bush is as pro-bussness as they come.

Firmware

[Southpaw018]

Much like the rather silly DVD region protection, just get a firmware patch. End of story, and you'll get your fair use rights back.

If you want to beat them, join them

[TooTechy]

Make friends with the FCC and when they get to trust you alter the broadcasting flag to something even more sinister, like a swastika (even though the flag itself is innocent enough, the connotation is bad).

This new flag will be rejected and with all the publicity, there will go the whole flag.

This technique is used time and again by our good old US Government. Join the bad guys and then make 'em look even worse. Then we, the people, want to bomb the f*ck out of 'em.

It works.

Just switch the bloody thing off !

[TractorBarry]

Good grief... It's only TV.

Lets face it 99% of it is mind numbingly tedious shite anyway. If I couldn't timeshift the small amounts of TV I do watch (mainly so I can fast forward any adverts) I simpy won't bother with it at all. Big deal, one less eyeball for the idiots to pitch their crap at.

Honestly I made the decision years ago to stop sitting around watching TV and to do other things instead.

Now I can play several musical instruments (badly), speak various amounts of several foreign languages (well enough to get laughed at by a native) and cook some truly appaling food - not to mention being able to write awful bug riddled code in a variety of languages.

And all because I don't sit around vegetating in front of the idiot box. (I should also mention my semi alcoholism as I now also like a nice walk to the pub of an evening...)

But really once you stop watcing TV there's so much to do. Learn to fix your car, indulge your latent rubber wear fetish, have an affair, catch up on the latest teenage drug craze or even flit from garden to garden stealing underwear from washing lines. The worlds your oyster.

TV. Dumb stuff for dumb people. Or as Timothy Bleary might have said "Tune out, Turn Off, Do drop in for a cuppa".

Read the Constitution

[dpilot]

Copyrights and Patents were originally put into the Constitution in order to enrich the culture. They were put there as a short-term deal to reward creation with a "limited term" monopoly, in order to keep the creator creating. But the other side of the coin is to get those creations into the public domain, so the rest of us can build on them.

We've gotten completely out of balance.

Isaac Newton (IIRC) once said, "If I have done great things, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants." Well, in today's society, nobody's allowed to stand on those shoulders without paying the descendents, at least not in the realm of copyright.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[iminplaya]

Funny that you talk about slavery. IP is slavery. It's ownership of something you have no right to own. You want your information to be your slave to benefit nobody else unless they pay you. You can get paid for your work by making a contract. When you get paid, you should completely forget about it. Your desire for control is the real slavery here. Nobody wants you to give your work away against your will. That's just the strawman that all of you like to throw out to confuse the arguement. I just think you should work under the same conditions that I do. I get paid for work performed. I don't get any special entitlements for the next 75 years. After which the buyer is free to do with it whatever he/she wants to do. Why should you be granted any special privileges? Are you claiming that you should get these because of your creative "genius"? Sounds pretty arrogant to me, and gives some backing to the backlash against "intelligencia" that some countries suffer from. It's no wonder we won't elect qualified poeple to office. The eggheads among us are just too arrogant. Your claim to ownership comes from government edict. It is NOT derived from any natural or inalienable right. And yes, it is our culture. The producers are just (mis?)appropriating it for profit. All well and good. They're wecome to it, but they(the producers) do not own it in any way. They deserve no exclusivity.

Don't worry so much

[juapost]

First, TV is mostly crap as others have said. Second, who do you think the people are that are actually implementing the broadcast flag? They are normal people who make mistakes. Third, this whole thread of posts serves to show that no matter what the fat cats do, we can still do what we want because we are just as smart (actually a little smarter) than the people running the show. During Prohibition, did people actually stop drinking? Hell no! They can't stop us from doing what we want. Some people might go to jail for it, but they can't put everyone in jail. Fuck, 'em we always win as long as we try. Small changes lead to global revolutions.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sure many of them did not actually create the material either but the material's creator gave them the copyright in exchange for, what they considered, fair compensation. You have no right to stand there demanding free access to the IP that someone else created on the basis that it is "your culture"."

Yeah, because I thought I, as a member of the public, really received fair compensation from those copyright holders when the Sonny Bono act retroactively extended copyright. I also love that via the DMCA, copyright has been effectively lengthened to "in perpetuity" - I kind of missed the part where that served the "Limited Times" and "For Progress of the Useful Arts and Sciences." /sarcasm

Copyright holders have no natural "right" to their work, because sharing it does not rob them of their own ability to use it (it does deny them their ability to exploit it for commercial gain, but they can still use it). That's why it's not "REAL" property.

I agree that copyright should exist for a given period to incent creators to create. The problem is, creators keep extending copyright without giving me anything in return. They're saying, "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further" (usually just before they have to give their stuff up - DISNEY!)

And that's just as immoral and wrong as someone wanting to copy your material. Maybe moreso.

Nothing Required

[Anonymous Coward]

The broadcast flag is a tempest in a teapot unless your are in the US and selling AV equipment. If that's the case, once again your government has hosed you.

For the consumer, it's almost a non-issue. Obviously you won't be able to go to a US Best Buy and get BF-unrestricted equipment off the shelf but you will still be able to buy the international version from Canada or the grey market. Alternatively, there will be international versions of the firmware available for many cards for the cost of a download (as long as you can live with "colour" instead of "color"). The cards that cannot be BF-unrestricted will be 2 for a dollar in the overstock bin shortly after Christmas.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Just Some Guy]

What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture?

Most Disney movies are based on old legends, fairy tales, and historical events. Those are pieces of my culture as much as they are Disney's. Content producers have the constitutional right to a limited protection of their works, after which they are expected to revert to the public domain.

If you mistakenly believe otherwise, then I hope you demand that the publisher of your "collected works of William Shakespeare" track down his rightful, legal heir and fork over the appropriate royalties. Or that Disney pays Hans Christian Andersen's family for "The Little Mermaid". Or that Mel Gibson found someone to pay for the rights to Jesus's life story. Otherwise, you're a corporatist hypocrite who doesn't really understand the "intellectual property" rights you seem to be in love with.

Dang, writing that made me feel dirty. I'm a pretty staunch conservative, but this idea that recent works based on old public domain offerings have some natural right to be privatized for the rest of eternity is just plain bizarre.

Hollywood is SO over...

[aphor]

Just don't buy any HDTV equipment with the DRM crap--reject DRM by making BestBuy eat it. If you must write letters, just tell your congressional reps that you aren't interested in the new schedule of planned obsolescence.

If you are on the artists/producers' sides, then start looking for a way to reach your audiences sans the traditional middlemen. Think about how JibJab and SouthPark got started. At the point people start waving distibution contracts in your face, you have a choice to walk away and take money directly from advertisers and/or consumers. Technologies like BitTorrent are comparatively free, and effectively superior to Hollywood distribution. On one hand they promise to make you wildly rich and famous, but on the other hand they rip you off worse than a scratch-off lottery ticket. Just say no.

Please learn the English language

[ChrisMaple]

...but the broadcast flag requires that the recording be deleted after a proscribed interval.

That link doesn't have all the information

[arete]

Bush got more money than Kerry, but Kerry should've won the election. The Bush win is clearly based on fixed results. (This does not denote a conspiracy; a lone actor could have pulled it off)

www.blackboxvoting.org

Boycott, Pirate, Create..

[alexandre]

That's it...

Re:Write Some Letters... OR GET INVOLVED

[nicholasbs]

Sitting around and doing essentially nothing is one option.

Another option is to actually get involved and start fighting for what you believe in:

http://www.freeculture.org/

http://www.eff.org/

http://www.publicknowledge.org/

Easy

[bitspotter]

Stop watching television.

My favorite button on the remote control is the big red one in the corner. It's marked "power" for a reason, ya know.

I did this years ago, and my life is enormously enriched because of it. I'm happy to say I'm once again shocked by what appears on TV.

initial impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

A U.S. appeals court on Tuesday said that regulators had overstepped their authority by imposing a rule designed to limit the copying of digital television programs.

"You crossed the line," Judge Harry Edwards told a lawyer for the Federal Communications Commission during arguments before a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.
linkage

Re:You people make me laugh

[nsayer]

Indeed: neither the constitution, nor the copyright laws require copyright owners to make access to copyrighted works "easy." However, from a technical standpoint it only takes one person to slog through the hard work of figuring out how to access a protected work and then write document describing the method to everyone else.

The constitutional issue present is whether the government can impose prior restraint on that speech (which is exactly what the DMCA does), and whether computer software is, for the purposes of the 1st ammendment, protected speech. The US Supreme Court has yet to rule, however at least on the 2nd half of the argument, the 9th circuit had ruled that computer software was speech in the first ammendment sense. The 9th circuit was set to re-hear the question en banc when that case (this one was about export regulations on encryption software) was made moot.

In short, no, you do not have the right to insist that copyrighted works be made "easy" for you to use. But I believe that the copyright holders do not have the right to prevent anyone from documenting the steps necessary to access their works. And if I am right, then any copy restriction regime is nothing more than a waste of everyone's time.

(IANAL, of course, but I play one in my mind)

the meaning of the flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok let's start with this: have you seen television these days?, the same series about soup operas, doctors, lawyers, policemen and just a few about the supernatural, this so called flag is just a white flag from the tv producers and copyright holder asking for forgiveness and pledging to the audience: pleace watch my show the house in malibu doesn't pay by itself.

Recognize it, the tv business is going down the hill with most entertaiment options like internet, video games and yes GOING OUT, why is TV avoiding people tape digitally or anlogically their shows?, just to keep them at home and shovel all their crapload and commercial spots.

C'mon were are the ambulance chasers here , this is a huge opportunity, just saying I am fat because the tv industry keeps me at home to watch my favorite shows is a mine of gold waiting to be discovered.

Short term Plans

[nurb432]

Even if you do come up with a good solution for when they turn the flag on, its only going to work until either your machine dies, or when you have to be able to conform with the drm/flag just to see your content at all.

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[Anonymous Coward]

Better not tell my satellite dish, because it seems to somehow get about 400 channels.

GNU Radio

[beeblebrox]

You want GNU Radio.

I suggest

[Anonymous Coward]

Cancel your cable service, stop watching TV, and enjoy more time to do something other than be fed lies and marketing.

Let the TV industry eat itself to death.

Candidate running that issue?

[SeanDuggan]

Kind of hard to vote against the broadcast flag when none of the candidates are running on that issue. Even if we could get some third-party person to run under that platform, what are the chances we could get enough people to agree on his other platforms? If he's for or against gun control, you're losing about half the voters. Half it again if he has a definite stance regarding abortion. Ditto for tax reform...

Oh, and that's just one congress-critter. Doesn't one need a majority?

your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, I think it was "It's like a leprechaun crapped a rainbow in my brain!". Sealab, right?

Re:your sig

[Cpt_Kirks]

Nope, Koala Bear.

Yep, Sealab.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[YourMomsCock]

Most of us are perfectly happy to grant IP a reasonable amount of protection.

iptables provides all the protection that IP needs.

Health benefit of computer use

[SeanDuggan]

Sure, you spend just as much time sitting motionless in front of your computer monitor, but the radiation (screen's much closer!) helps you maintain that healthy tan.

Ok, so computers tend to be more interactive, but I couldn't pass up the joke. I don't get cable TV either. As for computer time, I spend a decent amount of each day reading online, including the various classics which have slipped into public domain. And it's amazing how many books you get read waiting for websites to load...

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[GlassHeart]

Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long. IP should not go into the public domain untill the copyright holders chose for it to or the applicable law forces it to.

The problem is that powerful copyright holders have extended the "applicable laws" more than once, retroactively. The problem is that "applicable laws" have ceased to protect the public from IP hoarding.

What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture?

The right to sing a combination of notes, or to write a combination of words, is inherent. The people chose to give that right up in the form of a temporary monopoly called copyright, in exchange for more and better creativity. Specifically, copyright laws enabled a professional creative class that doesn't require private sponsorship, which is a very good thing so far, but the people did not sign away the right to sing those notes or write similar words forever.

One thing you need to understand is that copyright also prohibits anybody else from independently coming up with that series of notes later. That "anybody else" might in fact have released the song into "our culture" for free, but we've chosen to lock that part of "our culture" up temporarily to encourage the first comer.

[...] your attitude smells of slavery. ou want to force the IP creators to give away thier creations so that you do not have to expend any effort in acquiring it your self.

First of all, you need to apologize to slaves for trivializing their plight. If copyright was not protecting your livelihood, you can switch to another job that you can do. Slaves have no such choice, so don't even begin to compare software engineers or musicians without copyright to slavery. (No, it doesn't even "smell" of it.)

Secondly, I see no such sentiment in the post you are responding to. The complaint seems specifically directed at the "ones with complete contempt for the notion of the public domain, who have repeatedly bought extensions to the duration of copyright". I think we're talking about people who want to retroactively extend copyright, which is in its moral essence refusing to uphold their end of the deal.

Finally, speaking specifically to the software engineer, the public will derive zero benefit from your software after a certain time period (depending on the nature of your work, of course, but particularly if the sources are closed). Thus, it's not in the public's interest to protect your work for that long. We'd like it to be somewhat useful, for some time, in the public domain, in exchange for that protection. A balance needs to be struck so you will be encouraged to create, but it's not fair to expect to profit for as long as your creation is useful.

Linux VDR

[D4C5CE]

the idea of posting an ISO of the completed system is really the antithesis of the Gentoo concept.

Widely used throughout Europe, there are many precompiled distributions of the open source VDR (mostly ready-made on some flavor of Debian Linux), one of them maintained by what is probably Germany's most renowned IT publisher (c't etc.), as a CD-ROM ISO and also published every few months on approximately half a million magazine cover disks.

If you prefer to "compile a little longer", of course it works on Gentoo as well - which makes sense, since the goal for the living room should be an optimized, fanless PVR. (Of course, the ultimate challenge is porting this to a Mac mini with some USB or FireWire dongle receiver...)

So come July, (if the EU is spared from software patents - heed the call of your alpha geeks and join the campaign... Europeans now need all the help they can get to continue providing a refuge for otherwise patent-encumbered projects) chances are that the source is here to stay.

Just try and get a compatible card, i.e. one with open source drivers.

An American VDR site can be found at HoochVDR (need to register to see the forums), while the bulk of the discussion goes on at the VDR Portal - much of it is in German, but scrolling down the page, the International (i.e. "English only") section is not hard to find...

Re:Linux VDR

[Taladar]

AFAIK Gentoo works fine on PowerPC so if all the software you need compiles on PPC you could use the exact same steps to get it working on Mac mini.

dummy monitor driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

pardon my ignorance, haven't been paying much attention to this in Canada, but couldn't you just write a dummy display driver that pipes the data to the file format of your choice instead of to a monitor?

Carb loading

[SeanDuggan]

Bread and circuses will do that to you.
Damn right... I don't hold with none of this Atkins rheotoric. You'll have to pry my carbohydrates from my dead and stiffening hand.

And honestly, don't circuses (circii? {ducks}) make most people happy? You know, except for the animals and the carnies...

Lotsa Luck-With those Stereotypes.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Problem being, too many americans are too busy watching their spoon-fed share of culture on TV to care what happens, as long as the crap keeps showing up on their bigscreen they're fat and happy."

Since stereotypes are insightful around her. How about...

Geeks are smelly.

Geeks can't dress themselves.

Geeks wouldn't know what a woman was if a playboy was in front of them.

Geeks live in their basements, and are moma's boys.

Geeks have all the personality of cardboard.

Geeks are crackers.

Geeks have the attention span of...what were we talking about, again?

Re:Lotsa Luck-With those Stereotypes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Geeks are smelly.
true

Geeks can't dress themselves.
true

Geeks wouldn't know what a woman was if a playboy was in front of them.
false

Geeks live in their basements, and are moma's boys.
false,true

Geeks have all the personality of cardboard.
true

Geeks are crackers.
true

Geeks have the attention span of...what were we talking about, again?
true, erm.. pff.. Oh yes! broadcast flag

"Constitutional fair use rights"? He he he.

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when has anyone had a constitutional right to reproduce part of a copyrighted work, let alone a complete work, let alone a complete work in its original (digital) form on a DVD? "Fair use" is a defense -- it's an argument you deploy to get out of an infringement suit, but it doesn't mean you haven't infringed and certainly doesn't mean you get your choice of technologies. If fair use existed before the DVD was invented, how can the DVD or digital reproduction in general be essential to fair use? The limited fair-use exception lets you reproduce a copyrighted work with a paintbrush, with a flipbook, with a Polaroid camera, with a camcorder, or with thousands of other means: no one is taking away your fair-use rights by limiting exact reproductions of complete works. (And if you don't like DRM or other license conditions, don't buy media that require them. Simply wanting to watch the Matrix for free doesn't get you out of the license to which its creators require agreement any more than your desire for free burgers lets you eat without paying at McDonald's.)

Let's be honest

[Brained Child]

What geek is really worried about the broadcast flag when we already know it's only a matter of time before it's cracked?

Ahem

[gr8_phk]

Your post reminds me of something. You're one of thoes idiots that likes TV so much that you PAY for it. There are a few areas where reception is so bad cable or sat is the only way to go, but that's not most of America. Never mind these other people who talk about voting for representatives, YOU voted with your wallet. You opted to pay for this stuff, and now you're going to pay even more - hey, it's what you stated you wanted to do.

Me? I must confess to recently getting CATV but only because it was a cheap adder over cable net access. I could drop it at any time - most the stuff I watch is actually OTA and with my HD card it'll be better OTA than on cable. I also think OTA would get even better if people would stop paying for television.

Re:Ahem

[daveschroeder]

Your first paragraph starts with putting words in my mouth and generally saying I said things I didn't say. Bravo.

Me? I must confess to recently getting CATV but only because it was a cheap adder over cable net access. I could drop it at any time [...]

And now, you're what we call a "hypocrite".

most the stuff I watch is actually OTA and with my HD card it'll be better OTA than on cable. I also think OTA would get even better if people would stop paying for television.

And, on top of that, an idiot: the OTA channels are LOCAL channels for which LOCAL broadcasters and broadcasting infrastructure exist. How would that get "better", when many of the channels delivered via cable or satellite are specialty channels with specialty content that would never be carried via an OTA operator? Is Discovery or CNN going to set up a broadcasting antenna in every neighborhood across the country? Also, cable operators CARRY HD content, so your OTA HD wouldn't be "better" than cable's HD content. It's digital HD.

How does arguing to be able to use something you paid for make me an "idiot"? And also, you kind of don't make sense: aside from that fact that YOU YOURSELF have cable TV, how does any of my argument equate to "now I'm going to be paying even more", and what, if anything, does that have to do with the Broadcast Flag?

I await what is sure to be an entertaining reply!

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[OwnedByTwoCats]

The Supreme Court has defined "limited" as "unlimited". So the public loses.

For the lazy

[Anonymous Coward]

Clicky Link

Opt out entirely

[Belgarath52]

This may not be a popular point of view, but the simplest way to avoid dealing with this problem is to simply stop, walk away, and don't watch broadcast TV.
I'm not some hippy-liberal-TV-is-evil type - it's just too much of a PITA for me to deal with commercials, broadcast flags, tivo hacking, paying for cable, etc. If I want to watch something, I either wait until it comes out on DVD, download it via bittorrent, or simply find something better to do.
TV's just not that exciting, if you compare it to real-world entertainment. Play some paintball/airsoft, go hiking, do martial arts, go clubbing and meet girls, etc. I haven't watched broadcast TV in about three years, not from dogma, but just because the cost/benefit doesn't cut it anymore.

Re:Opt out entirely

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm inclined to agree... at least to a point. TV has been utter SHIT ever since "reality TV" has hit the airwaves. 99% of all broadcast TV truly sucks, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I also don't believe that we should all go TV-less, I still like football, but very little "TV shows" are watched in my household, and haven't been for years now.

The thing that absolutely kills me about this is that it's FUCKING TELEVISION! The last thing I remember about how money was made in TV was through commercials, not through protecting "vital content." How the hell is recording a show that I PAID FOR (cable) to DVD going to be any different than recording it to videotape now? I must be missing something. I guess I've been away from broadcast TV too long to understand the value here. Are we now trading shares of American Idol? If money is made through the sale of commercials and not sale of the content, why should it suddenly be illegal for me to record (or download) a show that was broadcast (for all intents and purposes) freely? WTF?

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

IANAL, but this solution actually makes legal sense. Is there a lawyer here who can say if this tactic has any validity?

Simple-Be Good.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Or, not buy any flag compliant devices, which might ultimately prove to be a very hard thing to do."

If good was easy to do, then there wouldn't be so much evil in the world.

stock up on . . .

[edward.virtually@pob]

vcrs. other than that, nothing. the dmca destroyed fair use rights.

Re:Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Carnivàle

[0111 1110]

She didn't use duct tape, she used (it looked like) something like a jacket, since there would of been the huge pressure difference, it would of been lodged in there really good and long as it was large enough that it wouldn't be pushed out, theoretically it COULD work

Okay, Mr. Feynman. Ever opened the window of a car doing 130MPH? How about 15000MPH? Care to ride on a space shuttle launch with a hole of that size closed by a jacket? Do you have any idea of the kinds of forces you would be dealing with? Even on airplanes traveling a mere 550 mph people have been sucked out to their deaths due to a hole in the fuselage. And these people weighed a lot more than a jacket.

I am not a physicist (IANAP) either, but I did take high school and college physics. At the speeds she seemed to be traveling through the planetary atmosphere I have to even wonder why the jacket did not just burn up. Maybe it was made of some super-duper material. It would have been pulled/sucked out by the huge pressure difference (even a shop-vac could probably have grabbed it), by friction from the atmosphere, or even by the huge g-forces (inertial changes) with the accelerations and maneuvers she was doing.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[jgerman]

Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long. IP should not go into the public domain untill the copyright holders chose for it to or the applicable law forces it to.
What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture? Did you create it? Did you exert a single creative impulse to make it come into being? No, it was the copyright holders. Sure many of them did not actually create the material either but the material's creator gave them the copyright in exchange for, what they considered, fair compensation. You have no right to stand there demanding free access to the IP that someone else created on the basis that it is "your culture". What arrogance!

I create plenty of IP as I am a software engineer and your attitude smells of slavery. You want to force the IP creators to give away thier creations so that you do not have to expend any effort in acquiring it your self. That amounts to the producers becomeing the slaves of the consumers and that is wrong.



Slaves my ass. You want to know what right we have to it? We ALLOW you as a society a certain amount of protection for created work. We let you HAVE that time to profit from your work with the UNDERSTANDING that after a certain amount of time that work transfers into the public domain.

That way we encourage people to create, and grow the pool of content available to everyone. So the right we have to expect that work to go into the public domain is the EXACT same right you think you have to that work.

But hey, that's fine, if you don't want your work to go into the public domain. Consider the agreement null and void. Now you have NO claim to ownership and anyone can use anything you do at anytime for any reason.

Learn the facts spanky. IP laws ONLY exist in the context of that agreement. Content creators are granted a limited time of monopoly in exchange for that content becoming the property of all after a certain amount of time.

You don't OWN a certain sequence of notes, words, or whatever, EXCEPT via that agreement. It's not yours by any natural law, so get the fuck over yourself. How arrogant? How dare you think you deserve unlimited protection on something that isn't yours to begin with.

And BTW I'm an engineer too, who the fuck cares. That adds not one iota of authority to your post.

Re: meh, or Something to See Here

[Anonymous Coward]

In my high-school civics class, during the reign of Boss Daley in Chicago (not the current one), I was taught that Chicago had the most restrictive building code in the USA. Almost every building was in multiple violation and new rules were being passed at a breakneck pace.

The "cops" weren't interested in you unless you were a criminal ... or until you fell afoul of Boss Daley, who could use these laws to put the screws to uncooperative peons. Our last Attorney General would certainly not be above this kind of behavior. Will the next? Who cares? Why not just avoid giving them powers that we assume / hope they won't use???!!!!

Circumvention

[geekboy_00001]

Broadcast Flag to be introduced in 5 months. Broadcast Flag to be circumvented in 5 months. Need I say more?

One simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be simpler, instead of panicing, for a manufacturer to design a card which actually does support the broadcast flag to simply design it such the the circuitry which handles the flag can be easily shorted out?

Say, by simply wiring Vcc to ground on a chip?

That way everyone's happy. The people who don't know anything can use it legally. The people who object to the flag can just get out their trusty soldering iron (or paper clip if this is done right) and disable the flag. And the Feds are happy, because the manufacturer is adhering to the law.

The MPAA may not be completely happy. But as long as its a home user doing it for their own purposes (and not reselling the stuff), there's nothing they can do about it (not that it will stop them from trying).

This seems like a simple solution to me. And I'll bet some clever manufacturer does this.

Re:One simple solution

[jevvim]

Let's assume for a minute that some engineer, buried deep in the guts of FacelessMegaCo, Inc., manages to design a piece of hardware where bridging two unmarked terminals will bypass all security restrictions on the broadcase. Since this is an assumption, we'll further assume that this modification is undetectable and cannot be protected against except by replacing hardware in the field.

Why did the designer do it? Well, I think we would assume that it's for the desiner's own use. Necessity is the mother of invention, and there won't be much invention going around. Since it's a hardware kludge, it's very unlikely that it will ever be detected during testing. Even if an external body must approve of the design, it's unlikely this specific quirk will be detected. The designer will be able to buy one of these devices and modify it.

But would the designer share their knowledge with a friend? This is what The Public (tm) would want. The designer may even realize that their company could take a larger share of the market by "leaking" information about the kludge. The designer could certainly help their company.

But, then, the sudden swing in sales would alert someone that something's not right. Eventually they would find those same instructions online, trace down the people who could have inserted such a backdoor, fire them, and probably sue them for breach of contract.

So, even if such a backdoor were to exist, the only way it would be known is if it's a product that's already obsolete (therefore, cannot create a new demand that will trigger alarms) or if the secret kludge is very well guarded - in which case we call it an "engineering prototype."

You should find this to be of interest.

[RobFrontier]

This article on LuminousVoid. should be of interest. It's a blog of the Broadcast Flag oral arguments.

M-I-C-K-E-Y...

[Teechur007]

S-U-C-K-S...in terms of copyrights and how they've been extended ad nauseum because the Disney cronies have a lot to lose in their mouse IP. This article explains how the Mouse and his crew have officially screwed us over in the realm of public domain:

"The CTEA [Copyright Term Extension Act]extended the term of protection by 20 years for works copyrighted after January 1, 1923. Works copyrighted by individuals since 1978 got "life plus 70" rather than the existing "life plus 50". Works made by or for corporations (referred to as "works made for hire") got 95 years. Works copyrighted before 1978 were shielded for 95 years, regardless of how they were produced."

And thus, the reason why I cannot sell my bootleg Mickey shirts for another few decades. :) --Teechur007

Re:M-I-C-K-E-Y...

[waveclaw]

S-U-C-K-S...in terms of copyrights and how they've been extended ad nauseum because the Disney cronies have a lot to lose in their mouse IP.

There is only one solution to the copyright problem in the USA: buy out Disney and public domain the mouse. If you get enough money together to tear out the heart of the evil, the evil will die.

With no more © on Mickey, there is no more need to propigate copyright on a 100 year-old badly drawn furry toon. So when 2023 comes around Disney won't have to pay the USA Coruption^H^HCongress to extend copyright beyond the maximum recorded human lifespan (not counting Biblical fictions.) Although, this could be considered rendering copyright eternal from a real, living citizen's point of view and thus consitutionally invalid.

(Unless the Senator clone of ex-Senator Sony Bono also runs into a tree while enjoying his massive copyright-supported fortune by snow skiing and gets another Bono copyright amendment passed by guilt, remorse and stupidity.)

Re:M-I-C-K-E-Y...

[Anonymous Coward]

That spells CoruptiCongress. You're looking for ^W. Asswipe.

As an aside...

[DaveJay]

Tangential comment:

Q. what do you do if the only entertainment you can get comes with costs/restrictions that you consider unreasonable?

A. make your own entertainment.

I'm not kidding; if you stop watching TV and whatnot, then you'll suddenly find you have a TON of free time. Mass-market entertainment works because it allows you to pass a great deal of time that would otherwise be boring.

The thing is, there are lots of things you -- yes, YOU -- have always meant to do, but never felt like you had time for. If you can't motivate yourself to do those things when you're bored (i.e., when you would normally watch TV) then consider the possibility that you don't really want to do them...and if you usually watch TV when you're too tired to do anything else, then go to bed.

If you stick with the plan, soon you'll find yourself feeling like your life is full, because you'll be filling in the gaps with things that genuinely entertain you, in a way that TV never can.

Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nearly all TV I watch makes its way to DVD, and my DVD rentals can be shipped to and from my house. The heck with broadcast *or* cable *or* satellite TV. I'll wait and watch the shows without advertising - and when it no longer pays to advertise, maybe my shows will not be cancelled by mindless idiots that respond only to advertisers (like Firefly - never would have bothered judging from the TV broadcast, but a friend urged me to try it anyway; glad I did).

Re:How best can one prepare for the broadcast flag

[iantri]

Don't be so sure.. Our televisions are designed for the North American market. I doubt the manufacturers will disable the flag "feature" for Canadian sets only..

That means that even if the CRTC doesn't create similar rules, most TVs will respect the flag anyway.

Each country...

[rbarreira]

Each country gets the leaders they deserve. US is mostly a redneck country, and the ones who aren't suffer by consequence.

Re:Each country...

[lifespan]

Out of curiosity, what did the people in the below countries do to deserve the leaders they wound up with?

Iraq -> Saddam
Cambodia -> Pol Pot
Zimbabwe -> Mugabe
Germany -> Hitler
Italy -> Mussolini
Australia -> Howard
Chile -> Pinochet
Uganda -> Idi Amin
Yugoslavia -> Tito or Milosevic
Iran -> Khomeini
Libya -> Qadhafi
Indonesia -> Suharto
Phillipines -> Marcos
China -> Mao

Re:Each country...

[rbarreira]

I'm sorry, but those aren't democratic leaders, although some of them were first elected on democratic elections...

Re:Each country...

[lifespan]

oh, I didn't realise you would want to move the goal posts and instead of "each country" now it's only "countries with democratically elected leaders". The mod who gave you a point for that one might be a bit of a redneck himself.

Forget Writing, Move

[Anonymous Coward]

The six corporations that spoon-feed the thought of American people to them won't allow change to (a) occur, or (b) to be reported if it is contemplated, or even (c) reported if it succeeds. 1984 missed by 20 years. Sucks, but really the only solution is to go find a country where they give a damn about ACTUAL personal freedon vs the bullshit happening here in the US of A.

Re:Forget Writing, Move

[StarKruzr]

Which six do you think it is?

stop watching TV and get some exercise

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I can stand to miss an episode or two of Stargate

No Faith in Hackers?

[MudButt]

Has there been a consumer technology "lock" that hasn't been broken?
I sleep well at night knowing that people much smarter than me, and with much more time, are already working on a hack.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, that really fucking sucks that you can't profit off the work of others. Get off your whiney ass and create your own content.

What is so bad about...

[jd]

...having a TV tuner that recognises the IETF's RFC on the Evil Bit?

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, Walt Disney is still alive? What great news!

Yes it is, you ignorant moron.

Re:Let hollywood fuck themselves... Who cares real

[nytmare]

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
-- Princess Leia

Wait a sec... look who we are talking about here..

[Randy Rathbun]

This is the same industry who's copy protection for CD audio data over digital is to have two bits set. Turn those bits off and you can copy all you want over TOSLINK.

This is the same industry who let the CSS decryption code leak out.

This is essentialy the same industry who tries to copy protect XBOX and PS2 games, only to have $10 chips start showing up a week after the machines come out, or, better yet, loading a save game file that creates a FTP server you can log in to by way of a buffer overflow in a font package.

I don't think we have anything to worry about here, folks.

Let them make their piddly little broadcast flag. Give it a week and you will see a story here on Slashdot that says, "HD Broadcast Flag stripped from content with 2 lines of Pearl."

Another server bites the dust. Congratulations!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is all I see when trying to RTFA:

Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_STRING in /www/www.eff.org/docs/broadcastflag/index.php on line 244

Good job everyone!

Do without?

[tepples]

People won't refuse to buy these DRM enabled devices, but they will refuse to pay more than they are worth, which will be a lot less once they are forced to disable functionality.

"Buy this equipment at this price or don't watch TV at all." Do you really think the American sheeple would be willing to do without TV?

Re:Do without?

[bigpat]

"Buy this equipment at this price or don't watch TV at all." Do you really think the American sheeple would be willing to do without TV?"

I'm not saying they won't buy, I'm saying they won't value the equipment as much, so that will translate into how much people are willing to pay. People do not need tv, especially a new one, therefore they can delay their purchasing which can drive down prices. I'm saying that if the manufacturers don't realize it yet, then they should realize that the broadcast flag will drive down their profit margins, perhaps even substantially.

Re:Do without?

[tepples]

People do not need tv

Really?

especially a new one, therefore they can delay their purchasing which can drive down prices.

At the end of 2006, the FCC will cut off analog TV broadcasting licenses, requiring all owners of analog TVs to either purchase a set-top ATSC tuner, purchase a new TV, or stop watching terrestrial broadcast TV altogether.

Re:Do without?

[bigpat]

"At the end of 2006, the FCC will cut off analog TV broadcasting licenses, requiring all owners of analog TVs to either purchase a set-top ATSC tuner, purchase a new TV, or stop watching terrestrial broadcast TV altogether."

Satellite and cable tv is not directly effected by this deadline and I believe the majority of American homes now have cable or satellite. So, even if the 2006 deadline isn't extended or eliminated people will have potentially years to switch to the newer technology before they lose many channel choices.

Cable service tying

[tepples]

You're one of thoes idiots that likes TV so much that you PAY for it

No, I'm not much of a fan of TV. I like the Internet, and with many local monopoly high-speed Internet providers, a TV subscription comes at no additional charge with an Internet access agreement. Are you still on dial-up? Or how much did you pay for a plot of land within a DSL serviced area?

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

"What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture? Did you create it? Did you exert a single creative impulse to make it come into being? No, it was the copyright holders. Sure many of them did not actually create the material either but the material's creator gave them the copyright in exchange for, what they considered, fair compensation. You have no right to stand there demanding free access to the IP that someone else created on the basis that it is "your culture". What arrogance!"

Yes, but that wasn't the bargain. The bargain was that if the producer releases that product to the consumer, the society (through law) will grant the producer a special monopoly control over their creation. This is copyright. The bargain is that after a set period of time with that monopoly in place, the product becomes part of the public domain -- copyright expires.

If creators do not want that bargain, that's fine -- don't ever release it, and destroy it when you are done with it.

Unfortunately, *some* creators have lately been pushing to void the bargain struck many years ago, and extend copyright longer and longer. A second problem is the one you mention -- using technological means to effectively void "fair use", which has always existed as a limit on the extent of copyright. Finally, the DCMA makes it illegal (in many circumstances) to circumvent these technological efforts at control.

In summary, bit-by-bit, the bargain is being renegotiated, with the creator getting increasing controls, and the public getting a raw deal. Most people aren't talking about enslaving producers to consumers, they are complaining about producers not sticking to the terms of the original bargain. Producers are being greedy -- they still want copyright protections from the public, but wish to turn over less and less, longer and longer into the future, before the public finally gets their return for granting those rights of legal protection.

hey I'm american

[aztechClanIII]

And I'm FAT!! Mod me up!

Re:Making me reconsider

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 insightful vmod

Fucked either way...

[angedinoir]

You act as if it's such a cut an dry scenario. It seems to me when I go to the voting booth, even after extensive research, that it comes down to whether I want it in the ass or elsewhere.

Quotations out of context

[westlake]

This reminds me of the famous quote

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) U-Boat Commander in World War One. Resisted the Nazi takeover of the churches. Freed from Dachau by U.S. troops in 1945 after surviving eight years in the concentration camps. Martin Niemöller

I detest the trivialization of quotations from men of this stature. The broadcast flag sets limits on the recording and redistribution of high definition television broadcasts. Nothing more.

Re:Quotations out of context

[mdamaged]

Obviously you don;t see the big pictue, allow me to explain why this quote came up.

The parent mentioned that (and I paraphrase) as long as the rest of the country sat around snd watched (because it had nothing to do with them...yet) nothing would change, this quote says much more than its obvious meaning, you do more to trivialize it by narrowing its application than I did by sharing it. Also do you think the DVD thing is the only thing this broadcast flag can handle? It can have applications, such as disabling the 'manual skip commercial' features of future tivo-like systems, how about a flag that won;t allow you to change the channel when a certain commercial comes on, (ok this might be exxageration, but it makes a point), also the phrase shows how thinking 'well this is only happening in the USA, so fuck the yanks', when in reality, it will proably be adopted (perhaps by financial force) by other countries as well.

The words of the phrase itself do not apply, but the meaning behind it applies very much so.

I detest when such great quotes are marginalized.

Re:Quotations out of context

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm
EFFs FAQ on the flags: http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/archives/000148.html

And from here:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm /79064

it mentions more applications for the flag including what the parents mentions.

Re:Quotations out of context

[macdaddy]

Your post certainly doesn't deserve a score of 0. To combat this, welcome to my friend's list.

Re:Quotations out of context

[DavidHopwood]

Prediction: a broadcast flag will not be adopted by any country that uses PAL.

The gap in quality between PAL and HDTV is much less than that between NTSC and HDTV, so HDTV is a very difficult sell in these countries. Adding extra limitations would kill it stone dead. Since the U.S. implementation of the flag is specific to ATSC, there's no compatibility reason for any PAL-based equipment to support it, either.

I remember those days

[dman123]

Your post would have been mine - word for word - years ago. You can keep this attitude until your kids are about 9 months old. Don't feel guilty in two to three years when you have created your shrine to the TV gods. It's a fact of modern life.

TV does not corrupt on its own. If our generation survived growing up watching TV, the next will be fine too.

Oh, and get used to remodeling without being able to leave any tools or anything outside the little boundary of whatever room you are working in, and all at least 1m off the ground. It's either that or remodel at night while your wife tells you NOT TO WAKE THE BABIES!

"...say to yourself "well, perhaps I should start a task that I normally don't have time for, and see how it goes."

Heck, that's how I ended up remodeling my bathroom..."

Heck, that's how I got my kids in the first place! ;)

German cars

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, why is it most European performance cars seem to get terrible milage at least according to the magazine road tests? My American car with a 350 horse V8 gets 27-28 MPG on the highway and since I live in Texas, that ain't at 55 MPH by any means.

Try going under 85 on I-35 between Dallas & Austin and you might get run over by 3 Mexicans and a couple of dozen chickens in a mini pickup. (Which actually passed me at that speed once.)

Tolerate? No!

[jabber01]

A sufficiently large majority is ignorant and/or apathetic of the matter.

Most people see television as incidental entertainment, rather than a civil liberty worthy of a crusade.

Re:Tolerate? No!

[harrkev]

Heh heh heh. Let TIVO miss an episode of their favorite show because of this fiasco and see what happens. People don't pay a lot of money for digital cable to just be told that they cannot do things that they can with a $30 VCR.

EFF Involvement

[sbszine]

Is the EFF involved, they need to be.

The EFF brought the original suit against the FCC.

SUPER-SIZED?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose none of the profit from the gas guzzling cars sold in the USA is going back to Europe.

We all know that NO EUROPEAN COMPANY employing EUROPEAN CITIZENS would, in good conscience, sell ANYTHING in the USA that would be POLUTING or WASTEFUL.

Give my SUPER-SIZED AMERICAN A%% A BREAK!

Re:SUPER-SIZED?

[martinoforum]

Yeah, those BASTARDS, selling Americans what they WANT! That's HIDEOUS!

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[AK Marc]

Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long. IP should not go into the public domain untill the copyright holders chose for it to or the applicable law forces it to.

It enters the public domain the instant that it is published. It is in the public domain, with copy restrictions. When copyright expires, then it still is in the public domain, but the restrictions are lifted.

I create plenty of IP as I am a software engineer and your attitude smells of slavery.

If copyright was abolished tomorrow, there wouldn't be slavery. It would not necessarily be profitable to be an IP creator, but it wouldn't be slavery. You'd have the option to stop trying to live off IP sales and enter another profession. I'm not saying that it should be eliminated, but that if it were, it wouldn't be slavery. I object to all the people that object to progress because if you mechanize widget making, all the widget makers will be unemployed. Whether it is IP creators or widget makers, I don't accept the "but think of all the people that will be put out of work" excuse. If that worked, we'd still have oil lamps because flashlights would have put all the lamp makers out of business...

I'm going to stock up...

[rivercityrandom]

on as many VHS tapes as I can get. The government/RIAA/MPAA/etc can't control what I tape on my trusty old Panasonic Omnivision VCR from 1986. Sure, it's not HD ready and can't backup to a hard drive, but that's nothing a good AV card can't handle.

Now if I could only learn how to get the clock to stop flashing 12:00...

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I don't believe anyone buys a movie based on the fact that in 20 years the copyright will expire.

Not anymore they don't. In fact, most people no longer understand that copyright is an artificial right granted by the government "for a limited time, to promote useful arts and sciences." Most people think it is a natural right, that all people should always have, and always did. Anyone planning on buying or selling works using the copyright system, however, should have a reasonable expectation that the rules will not change every few years. In fact, if you asked most publishing houses in the U.S. when they realistically expect their copyrights to expire, I'll bet most would say, "never."

And they may be right.

Re:Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Carnivàle

[Taladar]

I just hope we lose SG-1 BEFORE it goes downhill and everyone remembers it for what it was until now and not for the bad last season nobody really liked like so many other shows.

Lord and master of TV?

[Anonymous Coward]

So your TV allows you to start shows on your own time, does not contain commercials and you can skip to any time using a simple slider?

Just wait.

[Beardo the Bearded]

As someone said down below, eventually your cheap made-in-china DVR is going to break down and you'll have to get one with a broadcast flag built into it. I don't know why we continue to trade with china, but I guess our leaders don't read the fucking papers.

Anyway, my point is that once a few Jimmy Homeowners go out and spend $10k on a home theater that won't let them record TV shows like their old VCR used to do, then the resulting backlash of returns and freakouts will force your regulatory bodies to change their stance. No matter how you look at it, if people can't do with a DVR exactly what they used to do with their VCRs, then shit will hit fans.

Alternatively, you could wait for a few months and do one if the following:
a) get a mod chip
b) update the firmware
c) get one with a bypass

Easier way

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be easier to just alter the bitstream after its been decoded, and before it reaches the point where the tuner makes the decision to pass along the no-copy flag.

In concept it would be similar to how people crack games with a password requirement.

You are incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

"That is not a possibility with the broadcast flag. It will always allow you to record shows off air"

This is incorrect.

The primary reason to have the broadcast flag will be to prohibit any sort of digital recording of TV programs.

A secondary use will be to expire programs after a certain time. That is, you could tape the latest issue of "Gilmor Girls", but 1 week later, compliant equipment would simply mark the content as expired.

I invite you to read the specs and be horrified.

Re:You are incorrect

[91degrees]

Source. Supply a link!

The broadcast flag is a single bit. It can't possibly have 4 states! It allows or disallows rerecording. That's it!

No, he/she is right

[Anonymous Coward]

This information was reported on at length and indepth on /. about a year ago.

The broadcast flag will pretty much kill adoption of HDTV, but the FCC doesn't give a shit.

IF it's playable, it's crackable

[M0riarty]

Seriously though, if you can play it back, it can be cracked some way or another. Just like Macrovision's lame CSS system that was decrypted approximately 3 days after it's release, this will follow the same pattern. Meaning that your average idiot will merely have a greater difficulty recording his episode of Big Brother (or whatever crap you watch over there), and the people who consistently hack this kind of protection will just find a way around it.

It's times like these that make me glad I live in Russia.

I wouldn't worry

[promethean_spark]

It's in a DVR manufacturer's best interest if they make their system relatively easy to modchip because that would increase their sales VS a compeditor that does not.

"Sorry, you're more than 3 miles from the CO"

[tepples]

Er, Speakeasy DSL.

What do you suggest for people who 1. geographically can't get DSL (or choose to pay for a cell line rather than a land line), 2. can't tolerate 99.odd+ percent of TV programming, and 3. can't tolerate dial-up speeds? Do you suggest moving house?

Re:"Sorry, you're more than 3 miles from the CO"

[Nethead]

What does getting your IP from a cable company have to do with actually watching the programming? Get the basic package with IP and don't hook a TV up to it if that's the best speed/price deal you can get in your area.

I've also have a few antennas on my house (ham radio) but I don't hook them up to a TV to watch CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS/etc.

Stop trying to be a victim and think.

Toshiba RD-XS32 DVD/HDD Recorder

[Evil Butters]

How or where can I find out if the Toshiba RD-XS32 recorder (most of them built in 2004) will have this DRM technology? I don't want to assume that because it is no longer being manufactured it doesn't have restrictions in place. In the owner's manual, it breifly mentions the inability to duplicate certain copy-protected DVD's but does not mention anything about HDD to DVD restrictions. Thanks for any insight.

Stop looking at the magician assistant's ass

[macemoneta]

You folks all seem to be be keeping your eyes on the magician assistant's short skirt, and not watching his hands. Look at 90% of the posts here... Broadcast flag? Why just buy loads of HDTV equipment now (which ignores the flag), while it's legal!

HDTV has an abysmally slow take-up in the US. For most folks cable and DVD quality is good enough. So what do they do? They bring out the broadcast flag boogyman, and get everyone to buy HDTV equipment before the deadline, solving the chicken and egg problem.

Duh.

That's not the issue

[sterno]

The issue is that if a representative is going to vote on a hundred different issues, people are going to vote based on whatever is most important to them. No matter how well you research the issue, if you are going to vote for a candidate, are you going to vote based on their position on health care, or their position on the FCC flag?

The Toob is drugs. Drugs are fun.

[slashdot_commentator]

As an aside, I really can not explain how totally and utterly bizarre it is (to me anyway), to go to a friends place with some pals and watch everyone staring blankly at the TV. It's kind of creepy. If you leave the TV off, people will talk, make jokes, share experiences, but when the TV comes on, it's like an intellectual and social ghost town. I usually just leave (not to be an elitist, just because it's so boring).

Of course its creepy. You hang out with friends to socialize. You watch TV to disengage from reality. There's no point in watching TV with other people unless you discuss the program afterwards.

TV exists as a form of narcotic. They have done studies which show physiological and brain activity changes from watching it. When I get back home from my crappy job, it is the easiest way to zone out or change my mood. Reading's nice, but sometimes your just too braindead to enjoy it. Its healthier than getting drunk or taking drugs. But don't discount its effects or undesirable consequences because its not cocaine or alcohol.

best way to evade the broadcast flag

[halfelven]

Get a decent PC, make sure it's quiet enough, install Linux, then install MythTV.

Then either get a pcHDTV or better yet an Air2PC.

You're done. :-) Both cards do not bother looking at the broadcast flag and both of them either let you watch the shows in real-time or dump them to the HDD as MPEG2 files. Air2PC is currently better at receiving digital cable, but pcHDTV is supposed to do that as well pretty soon. Both cards receive HDTV OTA with no problems.

N/A

[tverbeek]

While this "broadcast flag" is a Bad Thing in principle, it isn't going to affect me personally in practise, so I'm doing... nothing. I'll keep pulling my analog lo-def signals off the air, recording them on my TiVo*, saving them until I've watched them... just like I do now. HDTV's nice, I'm sure, but "Lost" is entertaining enough in lo-def, and I've got better things to spend my time and money on.

*Or a MythTV box built from a spare CPU with an old NTSC tuner card if the TiVo box or TiVo the company dies.

FCC broadcast flag dodgers

[BierGuzzl]

You could always leave the country... I'm actually amazed that Americans have gone so soft as to give up their freedoms so easily. If you didn't drop out of school you might recall that people died for those freedoms. Oh well. Glad it ain't my country.

Re:M-I-C-K-E-Y = T-R-A-D-E-M-A-R-K

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Mickey is a trademark and so you will NEVER be able to merchandise him on a tee-shirt without infringing (or some form of fair use) because trademarks have no expiration.

What would have happened is some early Mickey Mouse films that were copyrighted would have gone into the public domain and reproducing those films (and ONLY those films or portions thereof) would be perfectly legal.

Disney was worried that free reproduction of those films and film-cells would depreciate the value of their trademark and thus paid off Congress to extend copyright.

Bad news for EyeTV buyers...

[Anonymous Coward]

The EyeTV 500 costs $350 at Elgato's online store.

There's gotta be a cheaper PCI option for Mac owners that want an HDTV tuner.

And...

[StarKruzr]

you posit this course of action because you know it can't succeed.

"Selling content," when it comes to music and to some lesser extent video, is just not a viable business anymore. You can't make it significantly profitable because in order to be able to sell content you have to be able to induce scarcity - artificial scarcity, in the case of digital music.

DRM will be broken, no matter what kind of scheme is used. This leaves you with no way to control duplication other than suing your customers, which cannot continue.

The current business model of "ginormous corporation buys IP of artist for megabucks, artist gets more or less nothing after that" has to go. As for how, well... that I'm entirely unsure of.

Re:And...

[Jherek Carnelian]

you posit this course of action because you know it can't succeed.

On the contrary. I posit this course of action precisely because I believe it CAN suceed. Just as one primary business model incorporating Free software effectively turns "property" into a service, so too can the production of entertainment "property" be turned into a service. The modern day equivalent of an artist and his patron, except the internet allows us to share the load an be "partial patrons" to hundreds or even thousands of artists each.

We should not be satisfied

[StarKruzr]

with merely "enough."

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

Content producers have the constitutional right to a limited protection of their works, after which they are expected to revert to the public domain.

That's not true. It's the other way around. The People have a Constitutional right to the works in question. It is also allowed (not required, recommended, or encouraged in any way) for Congress to create laws to delay that right for a limited time, for a few very specific reasons.

A major part of the problem today is that most people don't understand this. They have fallen victim to the manipulation of the big content producers (MPAA, RIAA, BSA, and their ilk) and believe that they have no legal right whatsoever to the content unless they pay for it, and then only extremely limited rights. Of course there are also those who feel they have a right to any content at any time. Ironically, the beliefs of these people we call "pirates" and "thieves" are actually much closer to reality, at least according to the constitution.

Only buy stuff with linux in it.

[Michael_Angel]

Anyone selling a Tv with just linux in it. My phone runs linux (snom.com) My router (linksys wrt54g) be nice to find a way to get my tv to run it. my VCR , I had one of thous once. they are these old devices that U put this huge bulky black plastic thing into it and it has rolls of magnetic tape inside. and it puts a crummy copy of what you hit record on on to this tape.. and the stard and ends of these tapes are crummy. Still I would buy one if it ran linux just because

Dumped broadcast TV....

[J_Omega]

Me too! I made sure to cover my windows and walls with tin-foil, then painted them and everything else with lead based paint.

Let's see those broadcasters shine their EM radiation into MY house ever again!

cable - NTSC ?

[J_Omega]

Would a simple $30 demodulator or some-such allow you to get around the fact that the HD-3000 only likes "antenna" connections?

Or would this be illegal in the future?

(and do I care if it would be?)

Re:cable - NTSC ?

[dpilot]

I'm not quite sure what you mean with that. Today I have a $30 demodulator - between my DVD player and 23-year-old TV. I don't know how that box does anything for HDTV.

The issue is what frequencies cable and satellite HDTV will deliver. Today cable TV delivers NTSC on frequencies that are somewhat "standard," in that you can flick the cable/TV switch on an ordinary TV or VCR.

I'm under the impression that cable HDTV is not that way on purpose, in an effort to plug or control every possibility to record. So again, is the pcHDTV-3000 useless if you can't receive HDTV broadcast?

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[LuYu]

Better yet:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

The emphasis on "their" is important because the people who are generally receiving the benefits of this system are clearly not the "Authors and Inventors". Further, as the parent noted, dead people certainly do not receive these benefits and would be unlikely to enjoy them much if they did.

Another question that should be asked is this: Should the "exclusive Right" be restricted to the "Authors and Inventors" themselves? And does the Constitution mandate this?

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Anonymous Coward]

You realize that Walt Disney is also a PERSON and not just a company name, right?

france.

[f()bz]

move to france? /ducks

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[Pofy]

>One thing you need to understand is that
>copyright also prohibits anybody else from
>independently coming up with that series of
>notes later.

Ehh, this might be something that is different in US copyright laws, but if you can show that you came up with it independantly it is NOT a copyright infringement. The hard part is showing that though. But if you actually do create something independantly you would not infringne. As I said, not sure if it is the same way in US copyright laws though.

The #1 thing to remember

[lupinstel]

I agree we should fight the broadcast flag, but the number 1 thing to remember is that the broadcast flag only applies to the US. And with the internet it is a small world we live in. We can easily acquire some other piece of hardware from another country which doesn't use the broadcast flag. If we lose the battle, the average consumer may be out of luck, but the people who do some research can easily locate an alternative device to buy.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[4of12]

The real problem is HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO PAY INVENTORS/CREATORS for their work.

When you get right down to it, the inventors/creators get paid very little. Corporations buy the rights and try to make as much money as possible off of the special monopoly rights. These corporations are not creative in the same sense as the original author and copyright incentives do not goad these corporations into greater creation and innovation but greater legal expertise and marketing techniques with which to protect and exploit their special assets. And this is where it really gets silly.

For example, when Sonny Bono convinced Congress to extend Mickey Mouse's copyright protection decades after the death of its creator, Walt Disney, the extra monetary incentive did not seem to have motivated Walt to create and invent new and more characters. So much for the intent of copyright law.

Why SUVs

[Ungrounded Lightning]

1 fat ass american burning enough fuel to drive around their SUV, compared to 5 german or japanese cars [...]

There are two reasons for SUVs. One is in the cities, the other in the countryside.

In many places in the countryside you need 4-wheel drive, high clearance, and large capacity - period. The US is LARGE. It covers most of a CONTINENT. Some sections are very sparse, with unpaved roads that become mud pits in wet or snowy weather (which they may have often enough to be a major issue), pairs of ruts with take-out-the-pumpkin rocks in the middle the rest of the time. Some have narrow passages. Some have steep slopes. Some have wildly tilted roadways. You need a reliable vehicle that can traverse that, with adequate cargo capacity to supply a home with, for instance, biweekly shopping trips of 50 miles or more, and to carry tools or major appliances.

They're currently calling such vehicles Sports Utility Vehicles: "Sports" because they can be used for recreational offroading or to carry recreational equipment. But the "Utility" is why they are NECESSARY for people in the less built-up areas.

In the cities the prevalence SUVs is the unintended result of federal regulations intended to reduce fuel consumption of passenger cars. The "fleet mileage" requirements killed the station wagon and its flatbed minitruck cousin - the cargo cars of choice for large families and shopping trips - and prevented the design of a replacement vehicle as well. And it also killed anything with the power to tow a trailer. The smallest viable replacement was the next size up - the SUV. That comes under the regulations as a "truck" - the smalles of them - and doesn't count against pasenger car fleet mileage.

(The off-road suspension also helps with the horrendous condition of the freeways in many cities, due to inadequate maintainence. Interestingly, these are sometimes the result of transportation bureaucracies deliberately neglecting maintainence and construction. Sometimes to push for more budget. Sometimes - and admittedly - to try to "encourage" people to switch to mass transportation - typically in regions where the mass transportation is inadequate and/or hazardous.)

Of course many city people buy them because they're fashionable. And that has driven the design of models with comfy suspensions and other car-like rather than truck-like features that make them unsuitable for the original purpose of going on bad roads or off-road. (Off-roaders refer to these as "mall terrain vehicles".) But I'd bet that, if the laws were changed to make mass sales of a smaller, more fuel-efficient, cargo/multipassenger vehicle possible again, many of those would switch at their next vehicle replacement. (And I'd bet it would become the next fad car for those who follow trends rather than think for themselves.)

Meanwhile, killing off the SUVs would literally kill off some farms (which couldn't be served by the NEXT larger truck model due to the land conditions).

So, let them!

[Anonymous Coward]

When I came to America in '95, I spent a lot of time watching TV. I had come from the backwaters of the world, I was trying to figure things out. A year later I did. I switched it off. For good. I think more people should do the same. If the media powers-that-be make it hard enough to opt-in, fewer people will. Maybe not too many, but at least a tiny bit more. That to me is good news.

Don't bother for ATI after July 1st

[denis-The-menace]

I asked ATI if they would be making 2 versions of their HD card.
They said that they will be making only ONE version
and that it's not their fault if Canadian broadcasters happen to use the Flag.
====== Original Reply =======
Regarding Broadcast Flag:

There will only be one version of the card produced and after the date of the Broadcast Flag institution the cards manufactured after this date will support the feature. I do not know if Canadian broadcasts will have a similar limitation.

Regards,

Rick Carman
Customer Care
ATI Technologies, Inc.
http://www.ati.com

Moving to Canada might not be a solution

[denis-The-menace]

I asked ATI if they would be making 2 versions of their HD card.
They said that they will be making only ONE version
and that it's not their fault if Canadian broadcasters happen to use the Flag.

Meaning if Canadian Broadcasters happen to use the same source as provided
to American Broadcasters, Canadians will be subject to the Broadcast Flag!
====== Original Reply =======
Regarding Broadcast Flag:

There will only be one version of the card produced and after the date of the Broadcast Flag institution the cards manufactured after this date will support the feature. I do not know if Canadian broadcasts will have a similar limitation.

Regards,

Rick Carman
Customer Care
ATI Technologies, Inc.
http://www.ati.com

All this will just increase Canucks derision of US

[WillAffleckUW]

As they don't have any of this but get the same TV shows without half the censorship.

I can see it now, lines of cars driving up to Canuckland to buy cheap recorders that ignore US limits.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[gurps_npc]

That was just one example used to prove that the consumers have rights too.

Look forget about the 20 year number.

Let's say something is 18 years old. Can you reasonably see someone buying a movie based on that fact that in TWO years they can show it for free?

OK, forget about THAT example. There is still the point that retroactively increasing the copyright is not in the public interest. The point of granting a monoploistic copyright is to convince people to create.

Granting you more time will NOT suddenly retroactively cause you to create more art. You created it knowing exactly how much time you got as a monpoly.

If you think that right now we won't get enough IP, then fine, go ahead and increase the time protected for FUTURE IP. But there is NO valid public interest in retroactively increasing the copy right time. The creators have ALREADY been paid for that work. Worse, for anyone with the resources to hunt down copyright violations, they have already been paid INCREDIBALE amounts of cash. So effectively all you are doing is giving cash to the rich, succesfull IP creators at the expense of the rest of the population.

Re:Producers should not be enslaved to the Consume

[gurps_npc]

Wow. What a complete idiot. Lets start with some basics.

1. I am a software creator. In fact I sell some game software already you arrogant little coward.

2. You are the one helping OTHER people to profit off the work of others, you whiny moron. The creators are GETTING SCREWED here. As in Beatles sell copyrights which they thought were only good for 20 years to other people, Michael Jackson buys them, and HE, not the creator is the one that profits when they get expanded. Think about it, the Beatles got HOSED on that deal - they thought it was only good for 20 years and sold it basing the price on 20 years when it was worth 50 years.

3. I am not profiting at all from the works of others - I made an investment and want it to pay off. To get it to pay off I have to work my ass off - do you know how hard it is to sell 20 year old content?

4. FInally, the most important thing any creative person can know is THAT THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. Those star trek tapes I mentioned - hate to tell you but most of them are "based" (read stolen from) Shakespeare. IP is NOT the amazing thing that non creative morons think it is. Creating IP is just another kind of work. It is valuable, hard work, but NOT infinitely so and the guy that did it should not be allowed to GOUGE the people paying for it, anymore than the Oil companies should be allowed to engage in fake shortages to drive the price up.

Crazy modding.

[suso]

Wow, this must have been one of the most controvertial comments in the history of slashdot. First it got modded down, then up then down then up then down again. At one point it was up to +5 funny, but not for long. It also hit -1. My initial karma score made it 3.