Nuendo wasn't just announced, it was pretty much complete. There were running demos if I remember correctly.
Could it have saved BeOS? Yeah, maybe. Why not? People desperately wanted to use BeOS as an audio platform. Some amazingly still do (see lebuzz.com). Logic Audio, Peak, and other programs were on their way as well.
The moment that Be changed direction (how many times now?), every one of these ports got dropped. Why should the companies waste their money on developing for BeOS when Be wasn't even supporting the desktop OS any longer?
As someone who works with audio, I would've loved the chance to run Logic on BeOS instead of Windows XP. I'm sure many would agree. But Be dropped out before it ever had the chance to happen.
"why not just use apt-get?" seems to be one of the reasons that Linux companies are doomed to failure. Not that there's anything wrong with it, or that I'm suggesting it be changed, but there is always going to be (either before or after) some free alternative to what a commercial company can produce.
With this I suppose you have to look at the other benefits... most importantly, I guess, is someone to blame if things go wrong. Then again, services like 'support' with companies that deal with Free/open-source software never seem worth the money to Linux users.
That's unfair. I never said anything about companies losing profits. I'm not even against Napster. I'm against this whole new mentality that it's alright to download an album for free just because you don't want to give money to a record label. It seems more of an excuse than anything.
I'm also not saying everyone is like this. I've downloaded albums on Napster (before they actually released, or if they were not available in the US) and bought them soonafter. I've also downloaded albums to get a feel for them and decided not to buy at all. To me that's ok. To me that's akin to sharing music with a friend.
But you're failing to acknowledge a very large portion of the Napster users who download whatever they can and never bother to purchase any copies. We'll use "just about any college student" as an example.
Another thing that has probably been mentioned: trading tapes isn't quite the same as trading MP3s. While MP3s are not perfect, most people can't tell them apart from CD audio.
I think the following true: If someone purchases a CD with money they worked for, they are more willing to give it a chance. Should we have everything for free that isn't perfect, forgetting the ones who put time and money and energy into it?
Thanks for your advice.;P I'm always trying to write better music, I don't have resources to "market it relentlessly", and I do have a job.
Um, if it isn't worth it then don't listen to it...
Your examples really seem out of place. This 'protest' you mention only makes victims of the artists.
If you like a song or an album enough to listen to it, you ought to support the ones who created it. Independent artists who are selling CDs for reasonable prices are also losing sales to P2P sharing, so what's your justification for that? _Exposure_? It's less than what you think.
Maybe you don't have to buy their CDs if you honestly believe the record labels are that evil. But what are you doing instead? How are you helping to support the artists which you appreciate?
You're not going to make much money from doing live performances unless you're hugely popular.
For most, the money gained from doing live shows is about enough to pay for the transportation rental and buy a few drinks.
You also forget about the solo musicians (such as myself) who don't have the option of playing live.
If music is what I want to do with my life, why should it not be an option? If I don't want my songs included on services like Napster and Gnutella, why can't I opt out? For me, CD is not simply a distribution method. There is something to be said about the track order and the booklet and the time I spend on the artwork. It's something that I am putting a lot of effort into assembling and creating and if someone is going to view it, I want it to be done right.
You may argue that $16 is too expensive for a CD. You're right. You may also argue that the artists are getting ripped off by the labels, adn that's also correct. But how exactly do you think you're helping the artists by not supporting them at all? What alternative is there right now, selling MP3s online? Yeah, like I really want to exclude:
- Those without credit cards
- Those who do not purchase items online
i.e. Younger people
Plus, I don't *want* to sell MP3s. I think they sound like shit. I didn't spend all this money on 24-bit recording equipment and pay so much attention to detail so someone will just encode it as MP3 and make it sound like an FM broadcast!
And the fact still remains that online sales are pathetic compared to real stores. Especially with music. So if I want to gain exposure as an artist, I need to get in stores. It's the sad truth.
I'm not saying I am against anyone who trades my songs on Napster... Right now it doesn't matter. I'm simply against this whole mindset where you feel like you DESERVE the music for FREE just because the record companies are charging too much. What sense does that make!? All you're REALLY doing is fucking over the artists even more.
I've got pretty decent hardware in my audio computer:
MB: ABIT SE6
CPU: P3 700
RAM: 256MB 100mhz (Tested)
HD: 6.4GB Quantum - System
HD: 45GB IBM Deskstar GXP - Audio
Video: Matrox Millennium II
Network: 3Com 10/100
Additional USB stuff: eMagic MT4
It spontaneously reboots. I don't know why. It is nearly impossible to pinpoint because there is no single way to reproduce it and it only happens every few weeks, though sometimes it happens more than once a day. Is it the CPU? The motherboard? The power supply? I don't exactly have the parts to go swapping around and wait a month to see if it's working. I know a reboot once a week doesn't sound awful, but it kinda sucks when you're working on audio that sometimes you only get one good shot at. If I had some kind of service plan, I could just let it be somebody else's problem and probably end up with a replacement. I know each individual piece of hardware has its own warranty-- but until I can pinpoint it, the warranties are useless.
It's not just about the service plan though. The Apple G4 Towers are just very well designed and have this kind of personality that you don't get with PCs--especially home-built ones. But that is only MY opinion and preference. No one has to agree:-)
Hey now
I've *never* used cheap hardware in anything I've built. Needless to say I have still had problems.
There is a difference in any case: The manufacturers don't just take some components and throw them together. They put each model through tests to ensure quality and compatibility. These companies also offer support and service plans.
How can you call the previously mentioned system something of "high quality"? It doesn't even say what brand of motherboard it's using, only that it's an Intel 810 board and uses the on-board video and sound (whice are both, in my opinion, crap). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this setup in particular, but how can you compare?
Why,
so you can have some refurbished piece of shit Celeron?
It may be just my bad luck, but I've had so many problems with every cheap or home-built PC I have ever encountered. If I were ever going to buy another PC, it'd be from a large manufacturer (i.e. Dell or IBM). Even that would be a little cheaper than getting a Mac, but I happen to think Macs are much nicer and worth it..:-)
Isn't this topic getting old already? Every time there's a new console on the horizon, all we see are these articles about which one will succeed in the end. In response to that, many people just think "Oh, I'm going to wait around and see what happens before spending my money", effectively killing whatever's currently out.
Last year, tons of great games were coming out for Dreamcast and no one paid much attention. The focus was primarily on the up-and-coming PS2 and its elusive "emotion engine". Now the PS2 is out and everyone realises what we knew all along: the games are fucking awful. Yeah, some are finally coming out that are alright, but you have to wonder-- why did we wait all this time to spend way too much money for a console that only has mediocre games, when for a third of the price we could've bought a console that has an entire library of great games?
Even now, when the Dreamcast isn't entirely dead, game publishers are canceling production on their DC titles. Why? Did the user-base suddenly cease to exist? How soon before this happens to the PS2?
Yeah, we've got the X-Box and Gamecube coming out. Of course they're going to have improved technology. But if you like gaming, and you want to support the companies that are producing the games, try taking a look at what's currently out there.
Speaking as a (admittedly unsuccessful, at least according to today's standards *wink*) musician, I have to wonder what all the fuss is about. I definitely agree with most people that the MP3 format is a great promotional tool, but I wonder how far it can go. I'm not speaking about the poor quality, either...
The idea of selling MP3 'singles' for $1 is rather silly. First off, no matter how many people claim to now, I don't think anyone would actually spend money on it. Secondly, aren't we missing what's important? As if the music scene isn't worse enough, we'd essentially be asking artists to make more "one hit wonders" and "singles" rather than be creative and well, artistic. Sure, you might argue that it would encourage musicians to stop making albums that only have one listenable song, but I think the reverse is true.
I don't buy CDs because I support the record industry or because I dislike Napster and such. I buy them because occasionally they can be seen as works of art. I'm talking about the entire package here -- artwork, lyrics, and the ever-important track-order. Yes, I've previewed some albums in MP3 (or Realaudio) before purchasing, but certain times when I've had entire albums in MP3 format I would never really listen to them. With most people, if anything a song or two from the album will get placed into a huge playlist and the entire meaning (and feel) is lost. But when I actually went out and purchased the said CDs, it gave a new perspective and I was able to listen to the songs the way they were meant to be listened to. There is definitely something to be said about the way an album is put together. Musicians such as myself put time into it.. , and I want people to have the whole experience, not just a snippet or two...
I'm rather sure that many people would disagree with me, but I'm just throwing another POV out there. *shrug* I still support the MP3 format and like to give out my music free, but I don't think it's a viable business option no matter how it's done. What really needs to be done is a boycott of the major record labels until they stop fucking over both the consumers and the artists...
I have to both agree and disagree to what you've said. Yes, it is definitely rewarding to meet in person and flesh out ideas, but as people are becoming more accustomed spending their days online, discussing things on web forums might prove comparable. That at least is the hope for my current project.;) Another problem with open game development is just that -- it's open. Some projects attract so many developers (with so many different ideas) that the initial goal becomes shadowed and replaced with "We'll see what is best in the end". There's definitely something to be said about convential game development, and I'm sure if free software developers kept it in mind they would achieve much more success. What I mean is, get an initial team together who share the same vision. Then spend a few months designing everything (i.e. gameplay/balance, style, milestones, contingencies, etc.) After that, it should be clear where things are headed and how to get there. So if you wanted to open up the process so anyone can join in and help -- great -- except NOW there is a clear outline and none of the bickering that might otherwise be common.
Don't think I don't realise Sega has made mistakes in the past (and I never really did like them), but --
What's so horrible about the Dreamcast? Of the available game consoles today, I think the DC has the best selection of titles out there. I also respect that they're willing to put out games that throw your typical genres out the window (Samba De Amigo, Seaman, etc.) -- games that, if made for another platform, would never be released in America.
I've been holding off for many years on getting a game console (my last purchase was the SNES and I never really liked it much anyway). Why? Because with N64, the only decent games are the ones made by Nintendo/Rare, and the I've never liked the Playstation one bit. Then the Dreamcast came along and wait as I did, I eventually could not resist getting one. The amount of games I want to buy (10-15 of the current selection, many more to be released) is what totally crushes the competition in my opinion.
Yeah, so the PS2 is coming out towards the end of the year. Oh and it will have better hardware. So what? That doesn't mean the games will be good. I can only think of one at the moment (Dynasty Warriors 2) and that isn't much to go on. This is all, of course, my personal taste -- but why rule out Dreamcast in favour of a system that 1) the manufacturer has lied about in regards to what it will come with, 2) has few cool games going for it, and 3) costs more than twice the price? Yeah, maybe Playstation 2 *will* get some cool games eventually... And maybe I'll get one when that happens, but why ignore an entire (inexpensive) system, with a large and growing selection of games, that has a lot going for it?
It seems like everyone's confused by what the author meant by MP3s taking the art out of the concept. My personal interpretation is that sometimes there's a significance to the track listing, the layout of the CD insert, etc., and even if you put the songs online in the proper order, people will only download what looks cool or what they heard is good. By doing that it's possible to miss out on a lot, especially with what the author was originally trying to convey.
Slashdot Mirror
Nuendo wasn't just announced, it was pretty much complete. There were running demos if I remember correctly.
Could it have saved BeOS? Yeah, maybe. Why not? People desperately wanted to use BeOS as an audio platform. Some amazingly still do (see lebuzz.com). Logic Audio, Peak, and other programs were on their way as well.
The moment that Be changed direction (how many times now?), every one of these ports got dropped. Why should the companies waste their money on developing for BeOS when Be wasn't even supporting the desktop OS any longer?
As someone who works with audio, I would've loved the chance to run Logic on BeOS instead of Windows XP. I'm sure many would agree. But Be dropped out before it ever had the chance to happen.
I would just like to add that I'm using an RME Hammerfall on Windows 2000 with 3ms latency. Works fine.
"why not just use apt-get?" seems to be one of the reasons that Linux companies are doomed to failure. Not that there's anything wrong with it, or that I'm suggesting it be changed, but there is always going to be (either before or after) some free alternative to what a commercial company can produce.
With this I suppose you have to look at the other benefits... most importantly, I guess, is someone to blame if things go wrong. Then again, services like 'support' with companies that deal with Free/open-source software never seem worth the money to Linux users.
-vl
disability you say?
how wonderful that would be... *sigh*
That's unfair. I never said anything about companies losing profits. I'm not even against Napster. I'm against this whole new mentality that it's alright to download an album for free just because you don't want to give money to a record label. It seems more of an excuse than anything.
;P I'm always trying to write better music, I don't have resources to "market it relentlessly", and I do have a job.
I'm also not saying everyone is like this. I've downloaded albums on Napster (before they actually released, or if they were not available in the US) and bought them soonafter. I've also downloaded albums to get a feel for them and decided not to buy at all. To me that's ok. To me that's akin to sharing music with a friend.
But you're failing to acknowledge a very large portion of the Napster users who download whatever they can and never bother to purchase any copies. We'll use "just about any college student" as an example.
Another thing that has probably been mentioned: trading tapes isn't quite the same as trading MP3s. While MP3s are not perfect, most people can't tell them apart from CD audio.
I think the following true: If someone purchases a CD with money they worked for, they are more willing to give it a chance. Should we have everything for free that isn't perfect, forgetting the ones who put time and money and energy into it?
Thanks for your advice.
-vl
Um, if it isn't worth it then don't listen to it...
Your examples really seem out of place. This 'protest' you mention only makes victims of the artists.
If you like a song or an album enough to listen to it, you ought to support the ones who created it. Independent artists who are selling CDs for reasonable prices are also losing sales to P2P sharing, so what's your justification for that? _Exposure_? It's less than what you think.
Maybe you don't have to buy their CDs if you honestly believe the record labels are that evil. But what are you doing instead? How are you helping to support the artists which you appreciate?
-vl
You're not going to make much money from doing live performances unless you're hugely popular.
For most, the money gained from doing live shows is about enough to pay for the transportation rental and buy a few drinks.
You also forget about the solo musicians (such as myself) who don't have the option of playing live.
If music is what I want to do with my life, why should it not be an option? If I don't want my songs included on services like Napster and Gnutella, why can't I opt out? For me, CD is not simply a distribution method. There is something to be said about the track order and the booklet and the time I spend on the artwork. It's something that I am putting a lot of effort into assembling and creating and if someone is going to view it, I want it to be done right.
You may argue that $16 is too expensive for a CD. You're right. You may also argue that the artists are getting ripped off by the labels, adn that's also correct. But how exactly do you think you're helping the artists by not supporting them at all? What alternative is there right now, selling MP3s online? Yeah, like I really want to exclude:
- Those without credit cards
- Those who do not purchase items online
i.e. Younger people
Plus, I don't *want* to sell MP3s. I think they sound like shit. I didn't spend all this money on 24-bit recording equipment and pay so much attention to detail so someone will just encode it as MP3 and make it sound like an FM broadcast!
And the fact still remains that online sales are pathetic compared to real stores. Especially with music. So if I want to gain exposure as an artist, I need to get in stores. It's the sad truth.
I'm not saying I am against anyone who trades my songs on Napster... Right now it doesn't matter. I'm simply against this whole mindset where you feel like you DESERVE the music for FREE just because the record companies are charging too much. What sense does that make!? All you're REALLY doing is fucking over the artists even more.
You won't have to fork out another $30? What about the cost of the system itself? I imagine it will be much higher than the PS2.
Anyway I agree about the Dreamcast. I think it's the best console I've ever owned. But to me, the next big thing will be Gamecube.
I've got pretty decent hardware in my audio computer:
:-)
MB: ABIT SE6
CPU: P3 700
RAM: 256MB 100mhz (Tested)
HD: 6.4GB Quantum - System
HD: 45GB IBM Deskstar GXP - Audio
Video: Matrox Millennium II
Network: 3Com 10/100
Additional USB stuff: eMagic MT4
It spontaneously reboots. I don't know why. It is nearly impossible to pinpoint because there is no single way to reproduce it and it only happens every few weeks, though sometimes it happens more than once a day. Is it the CPU? The motherboard? The power supply? I don't exactly have the parts to go swapping around and wait a month to see if it's working. I know a reboot once a week doesn't sound awful, but it kinda sucks when you're working on audio that sometimes you only get one good shot at. If I had some kind of service plan, I could just let it be somebody else's problem and probably end up with a replacement. I know each individual piece of hardware has its own warranty-- but until I can pinpoint it, the warranties are useless.
It's not just about the service plan though. The Apple G4 Towers are just very well designed and have this kind of personality that you don't get with PCs--especially home-built ones. But that is only MY opinion and preference. No one has to agree
-vl
Hey now
I've *never* used cheap hardware in anything I've built. Needless to say I have still had problems.
There is a difference in any case: The manufacturers don't just take some components and throw them together. They put each model through tests to ensure quality and compatibility. These companies also offer support and service plans.
How can you call the previously mentioned system something of "high quality"? It doesn't even say what brand of motherboard it's using, only that it's an Intel 810 board and uses the on-board video and sound (whice are both, in my opinion, crap). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this setup in particular, but how can you compare?
the tower case would probably run you about $40 for shipping alone. They always rip you off on that.
also since you are probably searching from mulitple sources you would have to pay shipping from each individual place
lastly, I dont think your $3 logitech mouse compares to the optical mouse that comes with every iMac.
besides you'd just end up with a PC and who wants that?
Why,
:-)
so you can have some refurbished piece of shit Celeron?
It may be just my bad luck, but I've had so many problems with every cheap or home-built PC I have ever encountered. If I were ever going to buy another PC, it'd be from a large manufacturer (i.e. Dell or IBM). Even that would be a little cheaper than getting a Mac, but I happen to think Macs are much nicer and worth it..
-vl
Isn't this topic getting old already? Every time there's a new console on the horizon, all we see are these articles about which one will succeed in the end. In response to that, many people just think "Oh, I'm going to wait around and see what happens before spending my money", effectively killing whatever's currently out.
Last year, tons of great games were coming out for Dreamcast and no one paid much attention. The focus was primarily on the up-and-coming PS2 and its elusive "emotion engine". Now the PS2 is out and everyone realises what we knew all along: the games are fucking awful. Yeah, some are finally coming out that are alright, but you have to wonder-- why did we wait all this time to spend way too much money for a console that only has mediocre games, when for a third of the price we could've bought a console that has an entire library of great games?
Even now, when the Dreamcast isn't entirely dead, game publishers are canceling production on their DC titles. Why? Did the user-base suddenly cease to exist? How soon before this happens to the PS2?
Yeah, we've got the X-Box and Gamecube coming out. Of course they're going to have improved technology. But if you like gaming, and you want to support the companies that are producing the games, try taking a look at what's currently out there.
UO2 was not going to be based on any code from Ascension. It's in the FAQ somewhere...
Do you mean the system tray? That's MSN Messenger...
In addition, it unfortunately wasn't released at the same time as the Windows version. I don't think many people bothered to wait...
Hm. Well, he never said he was the 'spelling nazi'.
-vl
Speaking as a (admittedly unsuccessful, at least according to today's standards *wink*) musician, I have to wonder what all the fuss is about. I definitely agree with most people that the MP3 format is a great promotional tool, but I wonder how far it can go. I'm not speaking about the poor quality, either...
The idea of selling MP3 'singles' for $1 is rather silly. First off, no matter how many people claim to now, I don't think anyone would actually spend money on it. Secondly, aren't we missing what's important? As if the music scene isn't worse enough, we'd essentially be asking artists to make more "one hit wonders" and "singles" rather than be creative and well, artistic. Sure, you might argue that it would encourage musicians to stop making albums that only have one listenable song, but I think the reverse is true.
I don't buy CDs because I support the record industry or because I dislike Napster and such. I buy them because occasionally they can be seen as works of art. I'm talking about the entire package here -- artwork, lyrics, and the ever-important track-order. Yes, I've previewed some albums in MP3 (or Realaudio) before purchasing, but certain times when I've had entire albums in MP3 format I would never really listen to them. With most people, if anything a song or two from the album will get placed into a huge playlist and the entire meaning (and feel) is lost. But when I actually went out and purchased the said CDs, it gave a new perspective and I was able to listen to the songs the way they were meant to be listened to. There is definitely something to be said about the way an album is put together. Musicians such as myself put time into it .. , and I want people to have the whole experience, not just a snippet or two...
I'm rather sure that many people would disagree with me, but I'm just throwing another POV out there. *shrug* I still support the MP3 format and like to give out my music free, but I don't think it's a viable business option no matter how it's done. What really needs to be done is a boycott of the major record labels until they stop fucking over both the consumers and the artists...
www.innerworld.org
I have to both agree and disagree to what you've said. Yes, it is definitely rewarding to meet in person and flesh out ideas, but as people are becoming more accustomed spending their days online, discussing things on web forums might prove comparable. That at least is the hope for my current project. ;) Another problem with open game development is just that -- it's open. Some projects attract so many developers (with so many different ideas) that the initial goal becomes shadowed and replaced with "We'll see what is best in the end". There's definitely something to be said about convential game development, and I'm sure if free software developers kept it in mind they would achieve much more success. What I mean is, get an initial team together who share the same vision. Then spend a few months designing everything (i.e. gameplay/balance, style, milestones, contingencies, etc.) After that, it should be clear where things are headed and how to get there. So if you wanted to open up the process so anyone can join in and help -- great -- except NOW there is a clear outline and none of the bickering that might otherwise be common.
Don't think I don't realise Sega has made mistakes in the past (and I never really did like them), but --
What's so horrible about the Dreamcast? Of the available game consoles today, I think the DC has the best selection of titles out there. I also respect that they're willing to put out games that throw your typical genres out the window (Samba De Amigo, Seaman, etc.) -- games that, if made for another platform, would never be released in America.
I've been holding off for many years on getting a game console (my last purchase was the SNES and I never really liked it much anyway). Why? Because with N64, the only decent games are the ones made by Nintendo/Rare, and the I've never liked the Playstation one bit. Then the Dreamcast came along and wait as I did, I eventually could not resist getting one. The amount of games I want to buy (10-15 of the current selection, many more to be released) is what totally crushes the competition in my opinion.
Yeah, so the PS2 is coming out towards the end of the year. Oh and it will have better hardware. So what? That doesn't mean the games will be good. I can only think of one at the moment (Dynasty Warriors 2) and that isn't much to go on. This is all, of course, my personal taste -- but why rule out Dreamcast in favour of a system that 1) the manufacturer has lied about in regards to what it will come with, 2) has few cool games going for it, and 3) costs more than twice the price? Yeah, maybe Playstation 2 *will* get some cool games eventually... And maybe I'll get one when that happens, but why ignore an entire (inexpensive) system, with a large and growing selection of games, that has a lot going for it?
-vl
I was charged sales tax as well and I live in NJ. I e-mailed them to ask about this but haven't heard back (in over three weeks).
-Vlas
It seems like everyone's confused by what the author meant by MP3s taking the art out of the concept. My personal interpretation is that sometimes there's a significance to the track listing, the layout of the CD insert, etc., and
even if you put the songs online in the proper order, people will only download what looks cool or what they heard is good. By doing that it's possible to miss out on a lot, especially with what the author was originally trying to convey.
-Vlas