You probably missed the part where most of patents in those lawsuits are utility patents (mostly on multitouch and gestures, though some are on topics like "search in multiple locations")
Right, but you missed the part where even those are not part of established standards. They are utility patents on something that has not been standardized whereas LTE patents are supposed to be licensed under FRAND terms since they are essential for implementing LTE.
Subscription models suck. Why? Because they are locked down and only good for "consuming" music. Some of us like to "buy" non-DRM'd music from iTunes so that we can do whatever we want with it for personal use. I can use samples of it in my personal videos within the terms of fair use. I can sample it for use in songs. What can you do with the music in a pure streaming service other than listen to it? What do you do when the network is down? What do you do about the bandwidth use? Not everyone has unlimited data.
1. To document an API with methods and expected outcomes.
2. To document TODOs.
3. To document why a method is public (ie. for unit tests).
4. To document the reason for workaround code when working with an external third party web service or other type of api that sometimes returns inconsistent results where the information is sometimes available through other means in the system.
Do you realize that the agency model was designed to allow for publishers to set the prices thereby removing the power from the distributor/seller and to disrupt Amazon's monopoly?
Amazon could, at first, offer lower prices to the consumer until they wiped out the competition but once they were supreme, they could jack up the prices or try to gouge the publishers/authors for lower wholesale prices with threats to not carry their books in the future.
You seriously should not be happy with a monopoly of the justice department enforcing a return to a monopoly. The market should be allowed to decide. If a book does not sell well, the market forces should cause the publisher to lower the sale price until it does sell.
Amazon, in the digital space, and Wal-mart in the brick and mortar space, were actively using predatory pricing to squeeze out all of the other competition. That situation is not good for the consumer in the long run.
When my friend's Android phone broke, she or he was able to transfer all the data to a new phone with a simple physical process. When I broke my iPhone, I was screwed.
Of course, iCloud makes that less painful now. It horrifies the parts of me that value privacy, so I keep them away from the smartphones.
Uh, your friend should have had backups in iTunes of their settings and all of their content in iTunes.
Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen.
That would be why so many people hate widgets in Android, right?
Do most Android users bother with widgets? Don't they consume battery power and slow down the UI? I would think that most people find gadgets on a phone to be a passing curiosity.
I am only mildly concerned about not being able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8 with my Nokia 900. If I feel like I'm missing out on some must-have super app before my 2-year upgrade comes around, I will bite the bullet and pay the phone price.
Funny, how MSFT had those fake viral videos about other platform phones being a smartphone "beta test" and yet people like yourselves were beta testers for the Windows Phone platform. Enjoying your beta test?
I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".
I was hoping see some decent competition from MSFT to keep Apple on its toes but that is so weak. Why do they insist on that stupid flipping titles? People that I care about? If I want to see what "people that I care about" are doing, I can see notifications in the notifications bar pop up on my iPhone 4S or I can *gasp*, go into my facebook or twitter app instead of cluttering up my homescreen with their faces. Alternatively, I can alway "call" them. I hate the hub concept still and the flipping tiles are likely to give someone an epileptic seizure. It reminds me of some really badly designed website from the late 90's or early 00's.
Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen. I have to give you credit for trying to be original but give it a rest already. Also, nobody except fanboys like the "hub" concept. Stop trying to oversell your Xbox live and other services on the mobile platform.
BTW. Nice touch on slavishly copying Apple on the screenshot with the power and home button combo.
Apple is, and should be, free to prohibit any content they want on their store. It's their store, we shouldn't force them to add stuff they don't want.
The problem here is the locked down devices. You have no other way of installing things on an iPhone. Which is precisely why I don't own one.
Someone let Apple know, that Itunes on windows is garbage.
iTunes seems to work fine for me on windows as well as OS X. Maybe you are doing something wrong. Are you trying to run it on a machine with less than 4GB of memory on Windows 7? Two GB of ram is the bare minimum for Windows 7 let alone running other applications. Even with 2 GB or ram, it runs reasonably well in windows with a fairly large library.
So Samsung "copied" Apple's use of corners and low profile SMCs to create thinner devices?
Trade dress were only part of the claims. The majority of the claims involved UI utility and design patents but thanks for the obvious troll.
You know what? I'll still buy Samsung over Apple even if they were the same price, and you want to know why?
Because you have more money than sense? Because you work for Google and/or Samsung?
It's because no company that resorts to litigating its competition out of existence because it can't offer something as good, if not better, for the same money, *deserves* my money. End of.
To anyone that says I'm jumping on the pro-Samsung bandwagon just because they're the little guy in all this: fuck off.
Right, so you hate Google too then? Google is using Motorola as a proxy to try to ban all apple products including their laptops. So who is the patent troll? Google's "do no evil" is as hollow as countries named "People's Democratic Republic of".
> Right so you wont recommend a good machine that works,
I won't recommend an overpriced machine that is limited by a fascist approach to design. It doesn't matter if you're talking about PCs, tablets, or phones. Apple's approach is problematic if you are the least bit creative. Meanwhile, it's reputed advantages are grossly overstated.
The patents in question were only valid in a sort of "we can sell your sister because slavery is legal" kind of approach to the law.
One word. FANBOY. You are one.
Show me one laptop on the market that matches the performance, battery life "AND" resolution of the top of the line Retina Macbook Pro for any price. I'm waiting.
It's like you're watching the cold war as a spectator in a 3rd country and suddenly one of them decides to start World War III. It makes a differences who that perpetrator is.
Your attempt to ignore the relevant moral difference there is not convincing.
It does matter who lobbed the first nuke. That party is responsible for the everything that happens after that.
Patents used to be a game of mutual assured destruction except Apple was actually stupid enough to flip the switch.
Stop it with the emotionalism. How is Apple being evil? They are a corporation and they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect their IP from theft. In other words, Apple had no choice but to launch this lawsuit after Samsung slavishly copied (as per internal Samsung documents) and no agreement could be reached for licensing of the patents. Apple actually licensed a number of things to Microsoft in exchange for a "no-cloning" clause. That basically meant that they could use the patented technology but they had to keep their product differentiated from Apple products in a significant way.
Neither Samsung or Apple are your friend and I don't care if you are an Apple fanboy or anti-fanboy so you need to get over yourself. Samsung was found to have willfully copying Apple's patents. End of story.
I used to recommend people to buy their computers. I actually specifically tell people "just about anything but Apple" now.
Congratulations Apple. You might have won this battle (for now, appeal pending) but I assure you that you've lost the war.
I'm sorry but you don't sound insightful but rather like an overemotional dick. You are not doing those people any favours by recommending products based on your "feelings" for the company. You should be recommending the right product for their needs.
What does the type of computer people need have to do with your butt hurt over Apple taking Samsung to task for slavishly copying? What were they supposed to do? Lay down and die while Android OEMs picked them clean? Apple execs had a fiduciary responsibility to go after Samsung and what finally did Samsung in were internal Samsung documents outlining how to copy Apple.
The internal documents obtained from Samsung show that they were wholesale copying almost all of the iPhone UI from the dial screen to the contacts to the notes and contacts screen.
the TCP-influenced algorithm almost exactly matched the ant behavior
How close?
Here's an idea, why don't you RTFA yourself and find out? I don't understand how you were modded insightful if you could not be bothered to read the actual article.
The patents that were upheld had nothing to do with rectangles with rounded corners but rather to do with interface design patents. Other Android OEMs have been able to avoid the issues that Samsung had by simply not slavishly copying Apple's implementation patents.
Prior art be damned if Samsung ignores the prior art themselves and instead blindly copies Apple's implementation.
Not that I disagree that Canadians have it better than us in many ways, but to be fair, my experience has been that purchasing power is lower per dollar because goods tend to be more expensive in Canada. Has anyone done the math on purchasing power of minimum wage workers in Canada versus the US? That would be very interesting.
That is why we can just drive over the border for milk and cheese. Now that the Canadian dollar is floating between par and above par with the US dollar, anyone living close to the border can use their Canadian dollars converted to US in neighbouring states
Guy lost his gov-issued iPad. Local IT admin said he can recover all his data and burn on CD, so MP doesn't need to worry it's lost. Data including his _private_ emails that was on iPad.
This is what set him off to return the iPad. Not Apple control.
Original iPad wasn't found he bought a replacement one from private money and returned it. Good guy!
As a form of protest he posted "Admins have access to everything!" on his Facebook before returning device. 300 of government officials (out of 460) use such iPads for work.
Private emails on the device? Do they not use Exchange for government email? Why can't he use an IMAP service like iCloud or a myriad of other providers for his email? Why not setup a free iCloud account so that he could have remotely wiped his iPad after he lost it? Why didn't he have a strong passcode on the iPad?
Consider the source always. This is not the first hack piece written by them. They were caught knowingly purchasing stolen goods but got off on the technicality of being part of the "press". It is not supposed to be a license to get out of jail.
All I see is a bunch of buzzwords. Gatekeeper seems to have pinched the icon from Windows Defender. Bloody certificates. It gets even more flimsy when you try to pass off business decisions as technical features like the ability to buy "Server" as an addon. Quartz was interesting but it was just a rebranding of the NeXTStep Display Postscript facility to avoid paying Adobe royalties.
Let me try to explain things in terms that you might understand. Quartz Compositor gave OS X transparent menus and other effects harnessing the power of the GPU which is something that windows did not have until Vista. The following: Core Data API (think ADO.NET or.NET Entity Framework), Core Audio API (low latency audio), Core Image API (GPU accelerated image filters), Core Video API (GPU accelerated Video filters) and Core Animation API (think Direct3D.NET libraries but easier) all make it easier to develop high end graphics and audio recording applications with less "reinvention of the wheel" by the third party developer. Many of these APIs originally were developed for Apple's pro and iLife suite of apps. For example, Core Animation was formed out of the Motion codebase.
I'm a software developer on the windows platform with over 15 years of work experience. Even though my chosen "work" platform is windows, I have been following the developments of the OS X platform and it is also my platform of choice at "home". If I wanted, I could leverage my.NET skills with Mono on the mac or for iOS but I like to keep my hobbies different from my chosen profession.
Same for MacOS X. It can't context switch for shit, which is even more apparent on a modern multicore system. They've changed the "look and feel" a dozen times, it seems, but nothing substantive (except for this latest iteration, which everyone apparently hates).
Here, FTFY. As GP said, pick and choose, when it's about bashing gays, Christians thump the Bible (where it's in Old Testament), when it gets inconvenient - "by definition, do not have to adhere".
Sorry but your attitude is hypocrisy. You pick and choose what you consider immoral. Homosexual sex is considered a sin in the new testament as is heterosexual sin outside of a marriage as is adultery as is even lusting. So what kind of messed up logic do you people use that a guy fucking another guy up his ass is not immoral but adultery and sex before marriage are? What about statutory rape? It's all just sex right? I'm not just talking to the so-called "moral" atheists who support gays but the liberal "christians" as well. They are picking and choosing their sins. Sin is sin and sexual sin is sexual sin. Since same sex couples cannot ever be married in the eyes of god then they are perpetually in sexual sin. Gays do not get a free pass on sin. If you claim to be a christian but support gay marriage then you are a hypocrite and will burn in hell.
You can be against gay marriage and "gay" rights and yet not "bash" gays. It is not a binary choice. You can simply not support them while tolerating them in society.
Slashdot Mirror
You probably missed the part where most of patents in those lawsuits are utility patents (mostly on multitouch and gestures, though some are on topics like "search in multiple locations")
Right, but you missed the part where even those are not part of established standards. They are utility patents on something that has not been standardized whereas LTE patents are supposed to be licensed under FRAND terms since they are essential for implementing LTE.
Subscription models suck. Why? Because they are locked down and only good for "consuming" music. Some of us like to "buy" non-DRM'd music from iTunes so that we can do whatever we want with it for personal use. I can use samples of it in my personal videos within the terms of fair use. I can sample it for use in songs. What can you do with the music in a pure streaming service other than listen to it? What do you do when the network is down? What do you do about the bandwidth use? Not everyone has unlimited data.
1. To document an API with methods and expected outcomes.
2. To document TODOs.
3. To document why a method is public (ie. for unit tests).
4. To document the reason for workaround code when working with an external third party web service or other type of api that sometimes returns inconsistent results where the information is sometimes available through other means in the system.
Do you realize that the agency model was designed to allow for publishers to set the prices thereby removing the power from the distributor/seller and to disrupt Amazon's monopoly?
Amazon could, at first, offer lower prices to the consumer until they wiped out the competition but once they were supreme, they could jack up the prices or try to gouge the publishers/authors for lower wholesale prices with threats to not carry their books in the future.
You seriously should not be happy with a monopoly of the justice department enforcing a return to a monopoly. The market should be allowed to decide. If a book does not sell well, the market forces should cause the publisher to lower the sale price until it does sell.
Amazon, in the digital space, and Wal-mart in the brick and mortar space, were actively using predatory pricing to squeeze out all of the other competition. That situation is not good for the consumer in the long run.
When my friend's Android phone broke, she or he was able to transfer all the data to a new phone with a simple physical process. When I broke my iPhone, I was screwed.
Of course, iCloud makes that less painful now. It horrifies the parts of me that value privacy, so I keep them away from the smartphones.
Uh, your friend should have had backups in iTunes of their settings and all of their content in iTunes.
Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen.
That would be why so many people hate widgets in Android, right?
Do most Android users bother with widgets? Don't they consume battery power and slow down the UI? I would think that most people find gadgets on a phone to be a passing curiosity.
I am only mildly concerned about not being able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8 with my Nokia 900. If I feel like I'm missing out on some must-have super app before my 2-year upgrade comes around, I will bite the bullet and pay the phone price.
Funny, how MSFT had those fake viral videos about other platform phones being a smartphone "beta test" and yet people like yourselves were beta testers for the Windows Phone platform. Enjoying your beta test?
I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".
I was hoping see some decent competition from MSFT to keep Apple on its toes but that is so weak. Why do they insist on that stupid flipping titles? People that I care about? If I want to see what "people that I care about" are doing, I can see notifications in the notifications bar pop up on my iPhone 4S or I can *gasp*, go into my facebook or twitter app instead of cluttering up my homescreen with their faces. Alternatively, I can alway "call" them. I hate the hub concept still and the flipping tiles are likely to give someone an epileptic seizure. It reminds me of some really badly designed website from the late 90's or early 00's.
Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen. I have to give you credit for trying to be original but give it a rest already. Also, nobody except fanboys like the "hub" concept. Stop trying to oversell your Xbox live and other services on the mobile platform.
BTW. Nice touch on slavishly copying Apple on the screenshot with the power and home button combo.
Doesn't this remind anyone of a Cylon basestar, specifically, from the reboot series?
Apple is, and should be, free to prohibit any content they want on their store. It's their store, we shouldn't force them to add stuff they don't want.
The problem here is the locked down devices. You have no other way of installing things on an iPhone. Which is precisely why I don't own one.
Solution: Use Safari Mobile.
Someone let Apple know, that Itunes on windows is garbage.
iTunes seems to work fine for me on windows as well as OS X. Maybe you are doing something wrong. Are you trying to run it on a machine with less than 4GB of memory on Windows 7? Two GB of ram is the bare minimum for Windows 7 let alone running other applications. Even with 2 GB or ram, it runs reasonably well in windows with a fairly large library.
My first thought was Peter Hamilton's "Commonwealth Saga", or Richard Morgan's "Takeshi Kovacs" series. My second thought was "hurry the hell up".
So you support fascism? Do you really want to be a drone?
Never heard of biochemical engineering? Why is this even moded up to a score of 2 already?
Sorry, but you only need to understand the theories of how things work "now". You only need to understand the mechanics of it all.
So Samsung "copied" Apple's use of corners and low profile SMCs to create thinner devices?
Trade dress were only part of the claims. The majority of the claims involved UI utility and design patents but thanks for the obvious troll.
You know what? I'll still buy Samsung over Apple even if they were the same price, and you want to know why?
Because you have more money than sense? Because you work for Google and/or Samsung?
It's because no company that resorts to litigating its competition out of existence because it can't offer something as good, if not better, for the same money, *deserves* my money. End of.
To anyone that says I'm jumping on the pro-Samsung bandwagon just because they're the little guy in all this: fuck off.
Right, so you hate Google too then? Google is using Motorola as a proxy to try to ban all apple products including their laptops. So who is the patent troll? Google's "do no evil" is as hollow as countries named "People's Democratic Republic of".
> Right so you wont recommend a good machine that works,
I won't recommend an overpriced machine that is limited by a fascist approach to design. It doesn't matter if you're talking about PCs, tablets, or phones. Apple's approach is problematic if you are the least bit creative. Meanwhile, it's reputed advantages are grossly overstated.
The patents in question were only valid in a sort of "we can sell your sister because slavery is legal" kind of approach to the law.
One word. FANBOY. You are one.
Show me one laptop on the market that matches the performance, battery life "AND" resolution of the top of the line Retina Macbook Pro for any price. I'm waiting.
Apple is a bit more evil than Samsung.
It's like you're watching the cold war as a spectator in a 3rd country and suddenly one of them decides to start World War III. It makes a differences who that perpetrator is.
Your attempt to ignore the relevant moral difference there is not convincing.
It does matter who lobbed the first nuke. That party is responsible for the everything that happens after that.
Patents used to be a game of mutual assured destruction except Apple was actually stupid enough to flip the switch.
Stop it with the emotionalism. How is Apple being evil? They are a corporation and they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect their IP from theft. In other words, Apple had no choice but to launch this lawsuit after Samsung slavishly copied (as per internal Samsung documents) and no agreement could be reached for licensing of the patents. Apple actually licensed a number of things to Microsoft in exchange for a "no-cloning" clause. That basically meant that they could use the patented technology but they had to keep their product differentiated from Apple products in a significant way.
Neither Samsung or Apple are your friend and I don't care if you are an Apple fanboy or anti-fanboy so you need to get over yourself. Samsung was found to have willfully copying Apple's patents. End of story.
I used to recommend people to buy their computers. I actually specifically tell people "just about anything but Apple" now.
Congratulations Apple. You might have won this battle (for now, appeal pending) but I assure you that you've lost the war.
I'm sorry but you don't sound insightful but rather like an overemotional dick. You are not doing those people any favours by recommending products based on your "feelings" for the company. You should be recommending the right product for their needs.
What does the type of computer people need have to do with your butt hurt over Apple taking Samsung to task for slavishly copying? What were they supposed to do? Lay down and die while Android OEMs picked them clean? Apple execs had a fiduciary responsibility to go after Samsung and what finally did Samsung in were internal Samsung documents outlining how to copy Apple.
The internal documents obtained from Samsung show that they were wholesale copying almost all of the iPhone UI from the dial screen to the contacts to the notes and contacts screen.
the TCP-influenced algorithm almost exactly matched the ant behavior
How close?
Here's an idea, why don't you RTFA yourself and find out? I don't understand how you were modded insightful if you could not be bothered to read the actual article.
The patents that were upheld had nothing to do with rectangles with rounded corners but rather to do with interface design patents. Other Android OEMs have been able to avoid the issues that Samsung had by simply not slavishly copying Apple's implementation patents.
Prior art be damned if Samsung ignores the prior art themselves and instead blindly copies Apple's implementation.
Not that I disagree that Canadians have it better than us in many ways, but to be fair, my experience has been that purchasing power is lower per dollar because goods tend to be more expensive in Canada. Has anyone done the math on purchasing power of minimum wage workers in Canada versus the US? That would be very interesting.
That is why we can just drive over the border for milk and cheese. Now that the Canadian dollar is floating between par and above par with the US dollar, anyone living close to the border can use their Canadian dollars converted to US in neighbouring states
Guy lost his gov-issued iPad.
Local IT admin said he can recover all his data and burn on CD, so MP doesn't need to worry it's lost. Data including his _private_ emails that was on iPad.
This is what set him off to return the iPad. Not Apple control.
Original iPad wasn't found he bought a replacement one from private money and returned it. Good guy!
As a form of protest he posted "Admins have access to everything!" on his Facebook before returning device. 300 of government officials (out of 460) use such iPads for work.
Private emails on the device? Do they not use Exchange for government email? Why can't he use an IMAP service like iCloud or a myriad of other providers for his email? Why not setup a free iCloud account so that he could have remotely wiped his iPad after he lost it? Why didn't he have a strong passcode on the iPad?
Consider the source always. This is not the first hack piece written by them. They were caught knowingly purchasing stolen goods but got off on the technicality of being part of the "press". It is not supposed to be a license to get out of jail.
All I see is a bunch of buzzwords. Gatekeeper seems to have pinched the icon from Windows Defender. Bloody certificates. It gets even more flimsy when you try to pass off business decisions as technical features like the ability to buy "Server" as an addon. Quartz was interesting but it was just a rebranding of the NeXTStep Display Postscript facility to avoid paying Adobe royalties.
Let me try to explain things in terms that you might understand. Quartz Compositor gave OS X transparent menus and other effects harnessing the power of the GPU which is something that windows did not have until Vista. The following: Core Data API (think ADO.NET or .NET Entity Framework), Core Audio API (low latency audio), Core Image API (GPU accelerated image filters), Core Video API (GPU accelerated Video filters) and Core Animation API (think Direct3D .NET libraries but easier) all make it easier to develop high end graphics and audio recording applications with less "reinvention of the wheel" by the third party developer. Many of these APIs originally were developed for Apple's pro and iLife suite of apps. For example, Core Animation was formed out of the Motion codebase.
I'm a software developer on the windows platform with over 15 years of work experience. Even though my chosen "work" platform is windows, I have been following the developments of the OS X platform and it is also my platform of choice at "home". If I wanted, I could leverage my .NET skills with Mono on the mac or for iOS but I like to keep my hobbies different from my chosen profession.
Same for MacOS X. It can't context switch for shit, which is even more apparent on a modern multicore system. They've changed the "look and feel" a dozen times, it seems, but nothing substantive (except for this latest iteration, which everyone apparently hates).
Do you actually believe the crap you write?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.2 - introduced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_Compositor a GPU based compositor long before Vista as well as Bonjour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonjour_(software) and a Journaled file system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Panther introduced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileVault and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IChat_AV as well as Expose and other UI changes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger introduced Core Image, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Image Core Video, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Video Core Data, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Data and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio APIs and launchd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard introduced Time Machine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Machine_(Apple_software) Spotlight, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_(software) and the Core Animation API http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Animation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard introduced Grand Central Dispatch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Dispatch and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Lion introduced the ability to buy "Server" as an addon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X_Mountain_Lion introduced Gatekeeper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatekeeper_(OS_X)
Um, no true Christian has to adhere to Old Testament teachings/laws
Here, FTFY. As GP said, pick and choose, when it's about bashing gays, Christians thump the Bible (where it's in Old Testament), when it gets inconvenient - "by definition, do not have to adhere".
Sorry but your attitude is hypocrisy. You pick and choose what you consider immoral. Homosexual sex is considered a sin in the new testament as is heterosexual sin outside of a marriage as is adultery as is even lusting. So what kind of messed up logic do you people use that a guy fucking another guy up his ass is not immoral but adultery and sex before marriage are? What about statutory rape? It's all just sex right? I'm not just talking to the so-called "moral" atheists who support gays but the liberal "christians" as well. They are picking and choosing their sins. Sin is sin and sexual sin is sexual sin. Since same sex couples cannot ever be married in the eyes of god then they are perpetually in sexual sin. Gays do not get a free pass on sin. If you claim to be a christian but support gay marriage then you are a hypocrite and will burn in hell.
You can be against gay marriage and "gay" rights and yet not "bash" gays. It is not a binary choice. You can simply not support them while tolerating them in society.