First Impressions of Windows 8 Powered Nokia Lumia 920 and 820

Nerval's Lobster writes "Nokia CEO Stephen Elop first took to the stage at Center548 on New York City's West Side, where Microsoft had first unveiled Windows Phone 7 in late 2010, to claim that Nokia was becoming a 'more nimble competitor' thanks to several strategic decisions under his tenure, including the choice of Windows Phone as the company's primary smartphone platform. ... In terms of [the 920's hardware]: the battery is 2000 mAh; the processor is a dual-core Snapdragon S4, which was apparently selected for its energy efficiency; and the aforementioned wireless charging, based on the 'Qi' wireless charging standard. ... Despite the enthusiasm displayed onstage for Windows Phone 8, the new smartphone platform poses something of a conundrum for Nokia. The company invested heavily in Windows Phone 7, all but abandoning its homegrown operating systems — including Symbian, once a dominant player in the mobile arena — in favor of Microsoft’s platform. But those Windows Phone 7 smartphones won't upgrade to Windows Phone 8 software, and nor will they run Windows Phone 8 apps."

Comments

Interesting, very interesting +1

[WaggStrm]

I must say I'm quite amazed by Nokia's latest offering. 2000 mAh battery with WIRELESS CHARGING along with amazing camera is something to be massively impressed with. Quad-core Snapdragon S4 CPU is fast as hell and the platform Windows 8 is a great choice.

The best thing about this is how effective the platform can be for developers. You get to use Visual Studio (one of the best IDE's in the world, in my honest opinion) and you get the good audience (rich smartphone uses with not as much competition as iPhone or Android). It is truly great opportunity for developers.

Apple didn't even come close to "inventing the smart phone" as if it were a complete thing unto itself. They didn't invent the touchscreen, the computer processor, they didn't invent operating systems, they didn't invent wireless data transfer or cellular communications.

What they did was take existing tech and combine it in a new way. Not to denigrate apple's achievements; they're phenomenal. But the things they're claiming to "own" aren't really the things that allowed the smartphone revolution to occur.

That's why I think Nokia will win this battle.

But back to the features - on top of it all you get amazing battery, amazing camera, and amazing camera software and off-line navigation. Not to mention large, quality screen and good keyboard.

I must say I'm impressed. Well played, Nokia, well played. I can't wait to get my hands on this baby.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Mike_Theory]

The hardware itself does seem almost too good to be true... It seems like an aazing device, Though, I'd be much more inclined to purchase if there were an Android offering... Simply because of the lack of pre-existing apps/community support for windows 8, Especially on mobile devices. This will likely improve with time, but, at least for now, i think the software is killing an amazing device

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously you are too easily impressed!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Chris Mattern]

The best thing about this is how effective the platform can be for developers.

There won't be any developers. Developers want to code for platforms people are using--iPhone and Android. People want to use platforms developers are coding for--iPhone and Android. It's a self-feeding loop and Nokia is way, way too late to the party. Any phone that doesn't run iPhone or Android apps is dead, dead, dead.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual on a Microsoft related story, the astroturfer writes a long, praising comment at the exact same minute as the story is published. Haven't you guys learned yet? Why do you keep burning IDs making it so easy to detect the astroturfing accounts?

Come on, give us a harder challenge next time...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering it's a shill, yes. Their first post to Slashdot is alengthy and gushing post about Windows Phone with a time stamp identical to the story's post time.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[somersault]

What exactly have you been looking for? Are there Windows 8 versions of all of this? Oh wait, your account is brand new, you're obviously a shill. An actual "Android Power User" wouldn't care one jot about Windows Phone.. it's irrelevant really.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Captain Hook]

The best thing about this is how effective the platform can be for developers. ... you get the good audience (rich smartphone uses with not as much competition as iPhone or Android)

eh? Does Windows Phone some how exist in a completely different market and so not competing with every other smartphone competitors are releasing?

I know, I know, don't feed to shills

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[dstyle5]

That's why I think Nokia will win this battle.

Which battle, the bankruptcy battle?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Desler]

There doesn't need to be when it will run all apps from WP7.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Missing.Matter]

Fact is, developing for Windows 8 is also developing for (for the most part) Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 RT, and probably in the future Xbox 720 (or whatever they call it). Whether you like Metro or not, Windows 8 will be shipping on all Desktops and Laptops in the Fall, and will be a viable platform with an immediate install base. As bad as Vista was, it still managed to find its way on more computers than Mac OSX. Developers *will* code for Windows 8, they *will* code for Windows RT, and if the marginal benefit is in their favor they *will* code for Windows Phone 8. Maybe that marginal benefit will not be there at first, but the scales will tip.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

You have to have a Windows machine.

Listen, I like the Nokia phones, and that's what I was going to buy. I brought my Ubuntu laptop into the store to check it out, see if it was compatible, but it isn't. You absolutely must have a Windows install, and a virtual machine won't cut it. (This was the quite-new 610, but looking around online shows that the 700 and 900 have the same issue.)

It uses the Zune file system, and nobody but MS has been able to figure out how to mount it. You can't transfer files with Bluetooth. You can't put music on it. You can't sync to anything. It's a completely stand-alone device unless you're running Windows.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[amiga3D]

Oh man, I think SCO won that one.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Desler]

Writing for Windows 8 does not necessarily imply using Windows RT. You can write Win32 apps to run on the desktop.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

Actually, as an Android power user who was completely uninterested in WP7, this phone and the OS actually have me itching to try it out and see if it's worth it. I've become bored and annoyed with an ecosystem that relies on hack upon hack just to keep your phone useful after a year. I love that part of it, but it'd sure be an interesting trick to start seeing reasonable OS updates.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Android Power User]

Please. WP7 devices mount easily to Windows, Linux and OS X. You're just trolling now. And I use Android, so no, I'm not a Windows Phone user. Your point just isn't truth.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, they're all a bunch of fools.

It might have some good things, but it's probably a lot of hype. So, they might grab some market shares early on, but only to lose them again half a year later. Look at Apple which started with a near monopoly and now plays the patent troll to stay ahead.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Tapewolf]

Whether you like Metro or not, Windows 8 will be shipping on all Desktops and Laptops in the Fall, and will be a viable platform with an immediate install base. As bad as Vista was, it still managed to find its way on more computers than Mac OSX. Developers *will* code for Windows 8, they *will* code for Windows RT, and if the marginal benefit is in their favor they *will* code for Windows Phone 8.

I rather suspect they'll continue coding for Windows 7 or even XP so to have the widest install base. Enterprise clients in particular hate having to upgrade, so jumping in and making something that only works on Metro is a non-starter.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[peppepz]

It's dual core, not quad.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[puddingebola]

I wonder why...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Baldrake]

Unfortunately, this is simply false. There is a Windows Phone Mac Connector program that allows syncing to the Mac. As a Mac user, I can attest it works great. This of course leaves Linux users in the cold, but it is not a Windows-only solution.

More to the point, there is less and less requirement to sync to a PC at all. Photos auto-sync via Skydrive. Email is all cloud-based. Podcasts are directly synched without requiring a PC to download them. Music comes directly from your Xbox Music Pass. Apps are directly downloaded. Files can be shared via dropbox or Skydrive.

There are obviously still cases where you would like to sync directly with a computer, but they are becoming really infrequent.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Missing.Matter]

Windows Phone 8 has SD card support for transferring any data you please to any platform you please. I'm not sure yet if this means plugging it in via USB will mount the SD card, but that's what Joe Belifore seems to indicate in his interviews. We shall see. Also updates are OTA in WP8. You can also alternatively sync files via SkyDrive which is available cross platform.

Windows Phone 7 isn't Windows only also; a syncing program has been available for OSX for a while.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Tx]

If you're an Android power user, and you want to see reasonable OS updates, then you know to buy a Nexus device, that's the point of them. Google can't force the various carriers and handset makers push out updates, and it's not in their interests to do so since they want you to buy a new handset every year, so you should understand what's going to happen there. OTOH my Nexus S had ICS and Jelly Bean almost from day one, no hacks, and running perfectly, and that's a pretty old phone now.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Qzukk]

Did they ever fix WP7 to not require registry hacks to mount as a drive in Windows? As of 2009 the bleeding edge of mtpfs's support for ZuneFS was getting the directory listing to work. I think after that people quit caring about Zunes.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? 90% of the world runs Windows!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[shitzu]

It will not. Also mentioned in the OP.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Sir_Sri]

Windows phone is really good to try out. I haven't tried windows phone 8, but WP7 was really quite interesting to see. I'm not sure it's good or bad but it's certainly different than the iPhone/Android setup.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

Yes, but only the Nexus devices get reasonable update cadence, so much like the iPhone, if you don't like that one form factor, you're boned. I admit that some of my frustration is based on the fact that HTC and Samsung currently have devices with much better specs than the current top of the line Nexus device, and lips have been sealed on what's next from the Nexus line. I'm hoping these announcements make something appear, and hopefully, they aren't like the middling device that's been rumored as the upcoming refresh of the Galaxy Nexus.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Chris Mattern]

Fact is, developing for Windows 8 is also developing for (for the most part) Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 RT, and probably in the future Xbox 720 (or whatever they call it).

Fact is, developing for a smart phone is a completely different thing from developing for a desktop or game console; the difference in screen size, input methods, memory size, processing power and battery restrictions make them utterly different. Windows 8 apps may be theoretically runnable on Windows Phone 8 (And I'm not convinced people will be writing them anyways--as has been pointed out elsewhere, people will be writing Windows XP apps for a while yet for maximum audience), but they won't be *usable* on Windows Phone 8. I'm not surprised that Microsoft doesn't understand this; the entire attempt to shoehorn Metro into Windows 8 shows that they don't understand that you can't run a cellphone interface on a desktop, and vice-versa.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Desler]

Yes, it will. You misread the summary. WP7 will not run WP8 apps. The other way around will work as Microsoft has repeatedly stated.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Android may have a thousand times more apps than wp7, but 99% of those apps are absolute garbage. I don't want to use platforms that 99% of android developers are coding for.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[DCstewieG]

Not that it helps you but they do support Macs.

http://www.timesweaver.com/mac-friendly-nokia-lumia-900-with-windows-phone-7-is-the-best-alternative-to-ios-and-android/

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

It's interesting that Google can't find another instance of anyone ever writing out that command before.

Showing results for apt-get install zune
No results found for apt-get install zunefs

Search Results
Download the Zune Music + Video Software | Zune.netwww.zune.net/Cached - Similar
Use the Zune Music + Video software to sync your digital media to your Windows Phone. ... Use the Zune software to install updates to your Windows Phone. Download now ... Get to know your phone by using the Windows Phone website.

How to Use Zune with Ubuntu | eHow.comwww.ehow.com ComputersCached
You cannot install the Zune program out of the box, however, though your Ubuntu ... sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa ... sudo apt-get install wine1.3 ...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

I'm sorry, I only have my own experience to draw from, from real life. I really wanted to get the Lumia, but I had had enough of missing features with my Walkman, and I didn't want to play that game again.

If I was hallucinating at the time, I apologize. My dream-state, which looked surprisingly like a Best Buy, was unable to mount a Nokia Lumia 610 Windows 7.5 phone to an Ubuntu installation. Now, I was only there for about an hour, dreaming, but the phone and my computer together made it impossible to mount.

Perhaps there are instructions for how to do that. If there are, they aren't online anywhere.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

The New Sony Xperia S is now supported by AOSP.

Expect there to be nexus phones from most of the major players within the next 6 months.

Even a middling android device has nicer hardware than the current iPhone or these new windows phones these days.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[peppepz]

Personally, I think that the recent news of the personal details of 1 million Apple users ending up on a single person's laptop, and from there getting spread publicly over the Internet, might make somebody reconsider if there's really need for every single personal detail of their life to pass from a datacenter on the other side of the planet while travelling from their own phone to their own PC.

Also, there's plenty of use cases for standard connectors and protocols. Why should I have to send a 1080p video clip (that this phone is able to take) to SkyDrive if all I want to do is to watch it once on my TV / PC? It will take forever for me to upload it to Microsoft's servers over wifi, and if I'm not at home, uploading it over 3G will be expensive (and even slower).

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

WP7 was really quite interesting to see

Yeah, it was so great that it literally sold in the dozens. Dozens

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, VS is one of the best IDEs.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Missing.Matter]

the difference in screen size, input methods, memory size, processing power and battery restrictions make them utterly different.

In terms of processing power, this is all true. But today, we're in a position where the computers in our pocket are just about as powerful as the onces on our desktops not even 7 years ago. There's a large class of applucations, especially for content consumption, that can be written for consumers across all platform types mentioned. Input and screen size are different issues, but that's where you have to re-implement a unique interface for each device. This is much easier than completely recoding everything from scratch for every platform, especially when the toolchain is streamlined by Microsoft.

people will be writing Windows XP apps for a while yet for maximum audience

Many of these people who still have XP also have a cellphone or tablet on which they probably spend more of their computer-facing time. Ever since I got my mom a tablet, she hasn't sat down at her desktop as that's where she does her email and reading. This whole tablet and smartphone thing isn't a fad, and it's quickly outpacing desktop PCs, a great many of which are corporate and other non-personal machines. By targeting XP + Windows 7 + Windows 8 (desktop) you might be targeting more physical machines, but you might be targeting less customers who would actually buy your app.

the entire attempt to shoehorn Metro into Windows 8 shows that they don't understand that you can't run a cellphone interface on a desktop, and vice-versa.

This statement just shows that you don't understand exactly the purpose of the Metro interface. Most people are completely afraid of their computers. They don't know how to manage their machines, they don't know how to configure them, they don't know how to fix them when things go wrong, they don't know how to discover and explore new functionality... Metro provides an easy, consistent, predictable UI. Search is always in the same place, settings is always in the same place, sharing is always in the same place, app behavior is predictable and consistent... these are all very real benefits no matter what platform you are on. Mouse and keyboard shortcuts are very prevalent, and there is nothing stopping any developer from making mouse or keyboard centric metro apps for desktop PCs and making them more touch friendly for tablets and phones.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

I'm completely uninterested in an iOS device, but this new Lumia 920 is pretty impressive, hardware-wise. The Galaxy Nexus isn't bad, but not necessarily what I want to pick up now to last a year or two. I'm also not a huge fan of Super AMOLED.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

And if there are a billion Windows installs that leaves 100 million people that don't. Stupid ass.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same old hype song and dance we get everytime MS thinks they have something with their phones. SHIP SOME PRODUCT THEN CROW ABOUT IT!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[peppepz]

This phone has no SD card slot.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Chris Mattern]

This whole tablet and smartphone thing isn't a fad, and it's quickly outpacing desktop PCs, a great many of which are corporate and other non-personal machines.

Never said it was a fad. I have two smartphones myself (one for work, one for personal--both Android, as a matter of fact). What I *do* say is that the market dominance of Android and iPhone will break Windows Phone 8, and compatibility with Windows 8 won't save it.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

Oh, thank you, I didn't know that it would work with Mac. Not that it matters in my case, but good to know.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[NatasRevol]

but shipped millions!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[lxs]

1% of a thousand times more would mean ten quality android apps for every wp7 app in existence. I like those numbers!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

WIRELESS CHARGING

Wow, like the two year old Palm Pre 2 that's sat in my drawer? Woo, innovation indeed. Keep cutting that edge, Nokia & Microsoft!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

How's that market share going? How's Nokia's balance sheet looking?

Why would I care about market share or Nokia's balance sheet? The only thing that matters about the phone I use is if it works for me and does what I want. Whether it works for Xmillion other people or makes other people money is the most inconsequential thing in the world.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[MozeeToby]

Right... so where's my Jelly Bean update Verizon? (Galaxy Nexus user since launch day)

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I care about market share or Nokia's balance sheet?

Are you that dumb? If the platform fails then development stops. Look at the touchpad and the playbook. Nobody buys the playbook because their is no ecosystem. Duh.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha! What you did there....I see it!

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[fa2k]

You absolutely must have a Windows install, and a virtual machine won't cut it.

Are you sure? I find that most USB devices work fine in VirtualBox. For example, I had a Windows Mobile phone and that worked, but it was a bit buggy. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't use it in Linux with a VM, it's pretty shitty to have a 2GB "sync application" constantly running and doing nothing

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

But the catch 22 you jokes are ignoring is the fact that if windows phone 8 takes off devs will instantly forget about windows phone 7 as they'll be too busy using the new apis and hardware. So much for the "beta test". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck's wrong with you? I've been using Jellybean on my Verizon GNex for weeks and weeks.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[MozeeToby]

Not without installing it yourself you didn't.

http://www.mobilebloom.com/verizon-galaxy-nexus-4g-jelly-bean-4-1-on-the-way-unofficially-already-out/2221143/

Promising delivery by the end of September...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[shutdown -p now]

Fact is, developing for a smart phone is a completely different thing from developing for a desktop or game console; the difference in screen size, input methods, memory size, processing power and battery restrictions make them utterly different.

Not as different as you might think, actually. Keep in mind that Win8 apps are supposed to run on tablets, including ARM tablets. And those things are pretty much smartphones with a bigger screen (and a correspondingly bigger battery, but only to support that screen) today.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[organgtool]

More to the point, there is less and less requirement to sync to a PC at all. Photos auto-sync via Skydrive. Email is all cloud-based. Podcasts are directly synched without requiring a PC to download them. Music comes directly from your Xbox Music Pass. Apps are directly downloaded. Files can be shared via dropbox or Skydrive.

So as long as just about everything you need is in the Microsoft ecosystem, then you won't really need to sync. Great!

There are obviously still cases where you would like to sync directly with a computer, but they are becoming really infrequent.

Speak for yourself. I transfer files to my Android phone over Wifi all the time. And I'm not alone - my mom just got a phone and she wanted to be able to pull pictures from relatives' phones without requiring both phones to have the same obscure transfer app. I told her she could do this natively on Android over Bluetooth, but it may only work with other Android phones since Apple likes to lock down Bluetooth (probably to make the record labels happy). So even non-techies are looking to do things that are not possible with these locked-down platforms.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[lister king of smeg]

I do have to admit that visual studio is great but unfortunately it won't run on wine so I use something else, I wish i could find open source ide that has all of its features like built in gui designer.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Chris Mattern]

Keep in mind that Win8 apps are supposed to run on tablets, including ARM tablets.

"Supposed to" and "Good idea to" are two different things. So far, I do not know of any successful app that runs on both a smartphone/tablet and a desktop. Let me know when somebody does it, okay?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[mcgrew]

So in short, W8 phones are as bad as W8 computers reportedly are? I'm glad I don't own MS stock!

I wonder if you can use it with Apple (even though I have no Apples, and wouldn't buy it anyway despite the fact that I have two Windows machines). No uploading or downloading?

Is Windows going to be the new CP/M?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that WP8 will run WP7 apps. The point was that all WP7 apps will be available for WP8 on the day it is launched. The only catch 22 seems to be in your thought process.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

You stupid ass. How does that help the fools that got suckered into buying windows phone 7 shit? "Beta test is over". What assholes MS and Nokia are.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[shutdown -p now]

The point is that people writing Win8 Metro apps will primarily target tablets, not desktops - and then those apps would be a natural fit to port to WP as well. I didn't say anything about those apps being a good fit for the desktop. I personally don't use any Metro stuff on the desktop despite running Win8.

And yes, people are writing Win8 Metro apps already. For example, Amazon had a Kindle app - in fact, it was already there during Win8 beta.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

How is it impressive?
Compare to an S3 or a One X.

The Lumia CPU is outdated, and the screen is AMOLED. So if you think Super AMOLED is not for you neither is this.

I love my Galaxy Nexus, but if I had to make the same decision now I would not get it. At the time it was a great device, but the S3 or OneX or the Xperia are better choices these days. The first two if you will do your own updates the latter if not.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

Note, I'm in the US, so the S3 and One X are both crippled here, so by comparison, the Lumia looks great. I'm not seeing that the Lumia 920 has AMOLED -- it has the "PureMotion HD+" IPS display. The 820 stays with the AMOLED display, which is notably darker and grainier than the 920's display.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I disagree, but keep in mind that there already is a huge base of .NET developers that can transfer their skills right on over to Windows phone. Many of them don't want to code in Objective-C "like stepping back ten years in time" or deal with Android's fragmentation issues.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[DrXym]

My Lumia 800 mounts under Linux but it's listed as a media device via MTP. That means I can use it to transfer files but not to update firmware or similar actions. The phone doesn't do OTA updates so I'd be screwed if I didn't have a Windows PC. Not that I expect it will receive many updates in future aside from 7.8.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Sir_Sri]

I didn't say it was great to buy, it was great to try out. Somewhat different problem.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

Crippled?
You can get the international version just fine. Amazon has it for sure.

If by crippled you mean waiting on carriers for upgrades the Lumia will not fix that. They have already announced that WinPhone 7 folks are not getting WinPhone 8. What do you think they will do with WinPhone 9?

My D1 is running ICS right now, and will be running JB soon enough.

Well, that is what I get for trusting Wikipedia it said AMOLED.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Missing.Matter]

The Snapdragon S4 MSM8960 is the same processor as in some versions of the S3 and One X: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_S4#Snapdragon_S4

As for Super AMOLED, the downside is the pentile (RGBG as opppsoed to RGB) pixel arrangement which induces fuzziness in text. Displays with this screen contain 1/3 fewer subpixels compared to RGB, but with the same resolution. Lumia 900 is a clear black AMOLED technology with RGB pixels and looks amazing. I haven't seen a 920 obviously, but if it's anything like the 900 it will be gorgeous.

As for other impressive hardware in the 920, you have NFC, wireless charging, advanced optics (floating lens image stabilization), curved glass display, unibody design, super sensitive touchscreen (can touch with normal gloves on or even fingernails), and at 1280x768 on 4.5 inches has a higher pixel density (332) than the S3 (306), OneX (312), and iPhone 4S (326).

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

International version won't get LTE on AT&T, won't get T-Mobile US at all.

My G2 is running ICS as well, but as I said, hack after hack. It sucks that no W7 devices will get W8, but they're offering some level of compatibility, and the first devices made it through 3-4 versions before going away. Even the Nexus One didn't achieve that.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Missing.Matter]

The game ARMED is a good example of a non MS app that works great on Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 7. There are many cross platform MS apps, but I'm sure after all three platforms are released we'll see more.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Cassini2]

I think I hear a swoosh sound ... You might want to check out the last half of the echo command.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

Android iterates versions a lot faster, I thought.

G2 has official ICS, no need for hacks.

LTE is pretty limited, especially AT&T. Technically the GT-i9300(s3 international) would work T-Mobile USA just edge speeds only.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't realize there were 100 million STUPID people like YOU http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3096387&cid=41235645 and that reply of his made you look very stupid and the fact you run an OS that has inferior device support (Linux) only makes you look even stupider. Stupid Ass.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

G2 does not have official ICS. Updates stopped at 2.3.6. Current iteration of ICS for G2 is limited to the 2.6.x Linux kernel, which leads to other issues. JB lacks a camera and a reasonable experience on the G2, but those will sort themselves out.

EDGE is a poor experience. :)

I understand the points you're trying to make, and I'm merely checking out the competition. It's nice to see WP8 become a player, because it just means the other OS options will continue getting better.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

The T-mobile G2 has official ICS.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-galaxy-s-ii-ice-cream-sandwich-update-now-live
Which G2 are you talking about?

I totally agree. I just am not as excited as I am just so sad about the death of Nokia. I wish they would have come up with their own OS and done all the things we both wish would happen like no carrier interference.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[outZider]

That's a Galaxy S2. I'm talking about the older HTC model with the flip out keyboard. I sold off my hacked Galaxy Note and am back on that device until I find something worth upgrading to.

And, yeah, preaching to the choir. I was a N900 owner, and looked forward to a MeeGo world.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope whatever funny farm let you break out recaptures you soon. Your grip on reality is obviously gone at this point. Your post was the dumbest excuse for a troll I have seen all day and that's saying a lot.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

They're paid by the hour. There's no real incentive to be any more convincing than the bare minimum, proving to your boss that you at least made an effort.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

You fucking moron. WP8 will run WP7 apps from day 1. WP8 users will not be affected by WP7 apps no longer being developed, since WP7 apps will be replaced by WP8 apps. Learn to follow a thread, dipshit.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

This phone has no SD card slot.

Well, pffffft. There goes my interest in it. Another worthless doorstop from Microkia. Are they even trying?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

What of MacOS X users stupid ass? Windows = 90%, MacOS X users = 8.5% and Linux users = MAYBE 1-2% (do your math correctly next time, stupid ass).

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe next time you'll have sense enough not to buy a phone with jenky ass CDMA. You have only yourself to blame. Oh, and don't look now but you can easily manually install the update or wait just a bit longer. I'm sure it's more fun to troll though.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[mcgrew]

The New Sony Xperia S is now supported by AOSP.

And it has the "XCP" easy-root feature, removes functionality from the device after it's already paid for, and leaves your customer info on an internet facing database in clear text.

Why would you buy a digital device from a company with a history like that? The foolishness of such a purchase borders on madness.

Stop buying eqipment from Sony lest everyone knows you to be a fool.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[oakgrove]

As for Super AMOLED, the downside is the pentile (RGBG as opppsoed to RGB) pixel arrangement which induces fuzziness in text.

That's funny. I'm looking at a Galaxy Nexus right now and the text isn't remotely fuzzy. As a matter of fact it is crystal clear.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Lumia 900 is a clear black AMOLED technology with RGB pixels and looks amazing. I haven't seen a 920 obviously, but if it's anything like the 900 it will be gorgeous.

I have a Nexus S and I've compared it side by side with a Lumia 900. The Nexus S has a crisper display with blacker blacks. And that thing is comparatively old. You'll forgive me for not being impressed by checklist marketing specs.

As for other impressive hardware in the 920, you have NFC,

So do a lot of phones.

wireless charging,

Again, what's new?

advanced optics (floating lens image stabilization),

Does it also have sparkomanoflaps on the disfabulator? Again with the checklist gimmickry.

curved glass display,

Done to death on the Nexus line.

unibody design,

I'm talking on it not driving it. I don't give a shit.

super sensitive touchscreen (can touch with normal gloves on or even fingernails)

Can you say "BUTT DIAL"?

What an uninspired piece of trash.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[h4rr4r]

Ah, my mistake. Your right, the G2 did not get ICS.

The guy at work with a Galaxy S2 always uses GS2 and I just mixed that up.

Meego would have been nice, so would WebOS. Android is good enough, but I was hoping for more, especially from Nokia.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

My G2 is running ICS as well, but as I said, hack after hack. It sucks that no W7 devices will get W8

So you can upgrade your G2 but if you have a wp7 device you're dead in the water and somehow you see this as an indictment against the former but not the latter. Wow, talk about the reality distortion field.

but they're offering some level of compatibility

The only "compatibility" you're getting is the fucking home screen. When devs jump on wp8 you can forget getting anything new for a wp7 handset. Why work on 2 platforms when one is old and has next to no users?

and the first devices made it through 3-4 versions before going away.

Point releases, dufus. And the features were all playing catchup to iPhone and Android. You are an idiot. Seriously. I would suggest a Jitterbug for you.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I could reach through my monitor and slap the stupid off of you. Unfortunately you will just continue to suffer. I feel bad for your mother.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[jbolden]

This user 2 comments in their history both the same with no content.

Repulsive on the part of Microsoft.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Karlt1]

"f you're an Android power user, and you want to see reasonable OS updates, then you know to buy a Nexus device, that's the point of them."

Unless you have a Nexus phone on the largest carrier in the U.S.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/07/27/lack-of-nexus-s-4g-android-4-1-jelly-bean-update-bad-sign-for-verizon-galaxy-nexus/

"Google can't force the various carriers and handset makers push out updates,"

Apple doesn't seem to have a problem updating all of their devices across carriers worldwide without waiting on the carriers. Surprisingly enough, even Microsoft takes responsibility for Windows Phones updates without waiting on the carrier or OEM.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

No, I saw that, but I figured he was calling me a retard for not knowing the command for zune adaptability.

Poe's Law, sorry.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Beardo the Bearded]

Yeah, I bought Astro, it's quite magnificent for transferring files from my NAS. It's also got a BT module, it worked great for grabbing all the photos from my dad's old phone.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Colonel Korn]

What exactly have you been looking for? Are there Windows 8 versions of all of this? Oh wait, your account is brand new, you're obviously a shill. An actual "Android Power User" wouldn't care one jot about Windows Phone.. it's irrelevant really.

I'm an Android "power user" who thinks that Android is a terrible OS, less stable and mature than Windows 3.11. I think that iOS (with which I have experience as a user, but I've never fiddled with the OS) is at the same level as Android. I suspect that Windows Phone is probably also crap, but since it's the major smartphone OS I haven't yet tried I'm interested in giving it a shot before I declare all mobile operating systems garbage. I think that anyone who has spent real time with Android or iOS and has any experience with software or a remotely critical mind would be pretty interested in jumping ship, even if the life raft is probably just as leaky.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[smash]

When did you last try iOS? I haven't had any stability issues to speak of (other than facebook app crashing) since v4. V3 i had do some wierd, wierd stuff though.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[smash]

And 99% of your time wasted looking for those apps.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Ol Olsoc]

You did well, friend. Your check is in the mail.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice attempt at reverse shilling, troll.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Alex Belits]

I don't know, SCO was kinda slow to die, Nokia has a good chance to show a better time.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Alex Belits]

Only if you are one of those retards who single-step through their programs in futile attempts to understand what the fuck they wrote.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Githaron]

It is a OR statement. The second command will only run if the first command returns a false;

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Githaron]

Not really. Most of the good apps tend to bubble to the top where they get a lot of exposure. Now if you like to be "trendy", you are going to have to work harder.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Spaseboy]

It's not your own phone or your own PC, you just license the use...don't even lie and say you've read every EULA of every piece of software you've ever used...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Spaseboy]

Please, I need a good laugh tonight, tell us the funny story about trying to explain "pairing" to your mother...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Auroch]

I've become bored and annoyed with an ecosystem that relies on hack upon hack just to keep your phone useful after a year.

Then buy something super-common and well supported. It doesn't have to be a nexus device, but that's a good choice. Because the only way you get stuck using hacks to keep your phone current is to buy a phone so obscure that NO ONE will port the latest stable cyanogenmod. I mean, honestly? My 2 year old "free with contract" android phone had an update to 4.0 before I sold it a few months back. It has had cyanogenmod support since I bought it.

I just made sure I didn't buy the most obscure, unknown phone out there. It's called "making a smart buying decision". Maybe you think the WP8 phone will fix that problem for you... but android is the only phone that gets frequent updates on unsupported phones. Don't look at apple, they don't do it. And the other phone options ... Blackberry? Or Symbian? Or WebOS? PalmOS? ... really.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Spaseboy]

Nobody buys the playbook because it's not competitive with other tablets in its class. Does it have email and calendar yet?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Spaseboy]

Is Windows going to be the new CP/M?

Someone is going to come and copy it but make the commands and devices incompatible? Pretty sure Linux has already tried that...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

how old is your mom again? 70?

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

over 100,000 apps avialble for winphone8.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[somersault]

I've never had any stability issues with Android. With individual applications, yes. Like the other poster who replied to you, I find the Facebook app is one of the worst offenders.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[mcgrew]

DOS (Windows) copied CP/M. At the time, no commands or devices were compatible; that didn't happen until Compaq cloned the IBM BIOS.

Linux is a clone of Unix, and all the commands and devices are compatible. You can take a 40 year old Unix program, recompile it, and it will run on Linux (and now on Mac as well). In fact, Windows is the only incompatible OS (except some mainframe OSes).

But by "the new CP/M" I meant incompatible with everything and obsolete.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[jbolden]

Evernote, Keynote, EA's Monopoly.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

no need to apologize, Android Power User is a new account troll that has ONLY commented on this story...

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[recoiledsnake]

Screen is a IPS with a super bright mode for outdoor use, changed from the AMOLED in the 900.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you are one of those retards who single-step through their programs in futile attempts to understand what the fuck they wrote.

From the guy who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand how to use visual studio. God i really hope you don't write code for a living.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Alex Belits]

Not only I write code for living, I do so for two decades, and never seen a Visual Studio user who used it for any reaon other than compensating for his stupidity or ignorance.

Re:Interesting, very interesting +1

[Anonymous Coward]

The 820 does. Just not the 920.

I can't wait for wireless charging.

[Anonymous Coward]

You just put it in the microwave and turn it on high for about 3-4 minutes.

Re:I can't wait for wireless charging.

[jedwidz]

That's awesome but now my phone won't turn on?

If I don't get my fix of Angry Birds soon, I'll have to resort to lobbing real-world objects at other real-world objects...

"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[Chris Mattern]

"...here's your complimentary knife in the back."

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[Anonymous Coward]

In memoriam: Microsoftâ(TM)s previous strategic mobile partners

ïMicrosoft's new "strategic partnership" with Nokia is not its first. For a decade the software company has courted and consummated relationships with a variety of companies in mobile and telecom. Here are the ones I can remember:

LG. In February 2009 Microsoft Corp. signed a multiyear agreement for Windows Mobile to be included on devices from LG Electronics Inc. LG would use Windows Mobile as its "primary platform"for smartphones and produce about 50 models running the software.

What happened? LG made a few Windows Mobile devices but with WinMo uncompetitive, they abandoned the platform and moved to Android losing years of market presence and all their profits.

Motorola. In September 2003, Motorola and Microsoft announced an alliance. "Starting with the introduction of the new Motorola MPx200 mobile phone with Microsoft Windows Mobile software, the companies will collaborate on a series of Smartphone and Pocket PC wireless devices designed to create a virtual "remote control" for the Web-centric, work-centric, always-on-the-go mobile professional." In addition, the alliance includes cooperation on joint marketing and wireless developer programs.

What happened? Motorola launched a series of Windows Mobile phones culminating in the Motorola Q "Blackberry killer". As Motorola hit the rocks in profitability new management reached for the Android liferaft. The company now relies exclusively on the Droid franchise.

Palm. In September 2005 Palm and Microsoft announced a strategic alliance to "accelerate the Smartphone market segment with a new device for mobile professionals and businesses. Palm has licensed the Microsoft Windows Mobile operating system for an expanded line of Treo Smartphones, the first of which will be available on Verizon Wirelessâ(TM) national wireless broadband network."

What happened? Palm shipped a few Windows Mobile, famously dismissing Appleâ(TM)s potential entry as something "PC guys" could never achieve. A new CEO, a private placement and an acquisition later the company is a division of HP making its own operating system.

Nortel. When Steve Ballmer was famously laughing at the iPhone and saying that he likes the Windows Mobile strategy "a lot" he was sitting next to the then-CEO of Nortel (Mike Zafirovski formerly of Motorola) with whom the company had just closed a strategic deal. "an alliance between Microsoft and Nortel announced in July 2006 ⦠includes three new joint solutions to dramatically improve business communications by breaking down the barriers between voice, e-mail, instant messaging, multimedia conferencing and other forms of communication".

What happened? Nortel declared bankruptcy two years later.

Verizon. In January 2009 "Verizon Wireless has selected Microsoft Corp. to provide portal, local and Internet search as well as mobile advertising services to customers on its devices. The five-year agreement will go into effect in the first half of 2009 when Microsoft Live Search is targeted to be available on new Verizon Wireless feature phones and smartphones." The deal would ensure Bing distribution to all of Verizonâ(TM)s smartphone customers.

What happened? Bing did ship on some devices but in October 2009 Droid came to Verizon.

Ericsson. In September 2000, "Ericsson and Microsoft Corp. today launched Ericsson Microsoft Mobile Venture AB. This previously announced joint company will drive the mobile Internet by developing and marketing mobile e-mail solutions for operators. The first solutions are expected to be on the market by the end of the year. The company is part of a broader strategic alliance between Ericsson and Microsoft"

What happened? Ericsson divested itself of the mobile division forming a joint venture which would go on and make more strategic alliances with Microsoft over Windows Mobile culminating in a loss of profits and eventual flight to Android.

Sendo. In February 2001, Mic

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no rebuttals and it sits at +5 because it's ALL TRUE. I know you shill fucks aren't really acquainted with actual facts as they exist in the real world but I assure the bullshit you get passed to you from the Waggoner Edstrom PR training manual is 100 percent pure spin bunk. I worked at Nortel when it happened. Did you?

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[Anonymous Coward]

You paint a bleak picture, a very bleak picture indeed Sir.

But this time it will be different!

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[sg_oneill]

Microsoft - Where handset manufacturers go to die.

Kind of sad really. Nokia, for all the horrors symbian provoked on the world, has always made sound and solid handsets, and really deserve most of the credit for the mobile phone revolution in the third world.

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[dunkelfalke]

On the other hand HTC made it big time with Windows Mobile.

Re:"Welcome to being a Microsoft patner..."

[Anonymous Coward]

don't forget this part:

in 2009, nokia was enjoying its thirteenth year as the number one mobile phone manufacturer... stock was trading as high as $11.48.
in 2012, nokia is the number 3 mobile phone manufacturer, and its stock is trading at $1.87

Nokia stock price plummets

[amazeofdeath]

After the announcement, Nokia stock price has gone down 15 % from yesterday's closing value at OMX Helsinki. So, not the kind of announcement the market was expecting, it seems.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

Apple's does the same thing after most announcements. Investors are a fickle bunch.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[amiga3D]

Apple stock always drops after an announcement because the rumour mill generates such hysteria that people are expecting something mindblowing. When it turns out to be only an 8 or 9 instead of a 10 they're disappointed. I don't think anyone really had those expectations about this announcement.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

No, but obviously expectations did not line up with what they delievered... so what exactly were they expecting is the question? The new Lumias are solid spec wise and offer some real advantages over competing phones (Windows Phone or otherwise), Windows Phone 8 addresses most concerns about the platform, app availability is increasing at an excellent rate, accessory support is expanding, Lumia devices are selling... so I'm not sure what Nokia could have done differently today that would really change what simply appears to be a fickle investor reaction.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[ItsIllak]

I think some were still expecting a 20MP sensor and a tablet device.

I'd advise that the drop is entirely temporary and you can make yourself an easy 10% in less than a month by buying today.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Sir_Sri]

Have something that would let them sell 70 million rather than 7 million phones.

Unfortunately windows 8 sucks. If people don't buy windows 8, why would they particularly care about a windows 8 phone? Does it do anything to the market that the iPhone (for people who want a good phone but know nothing about how phones work) or Android (people who want good phones and who are happy to install a cyanogen nightly build, or people who want a cheap phone that still has some smarts) don't do? Not really. This is nokia's problem, there's really not a lot of room for them to innovate, they aren't a semiconductor company, they aren't a software company, and they're not big enough to shift the market with the the small set of hardware and software they do make, they're the dell of phones.

The unified windows 8 product family was an opportunity for microsoft to really deliver a combined, integrated entertainment and productivity experience. And they didn't. You desktop/laptop is where you do all of your productivity, but you can take it with you on your phone, you can browse TV on the web or PC, and use the phone to control your TV like a remote, through your Xbox 3. They have all of the pieces, they just didn't bring them together.

What will be more interesting is if Sony can pull off, using android, what microsoft didn't, while still leaving productivity as a microsoft windows PC problem. (Apple of course is trying the same thing, just with Apple TV rather than a playstation or Xbox).

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[micheas]

Or investors see this as the last chance to sell any quantity of stock before Nokia files the Finnish equivalent of chapter 11.

Struggling companies tend to fall on good news as people holding the stock view it as their best chance to dump it.

Nobody said. iPhones are dead this is really great. It does "X' (where "X" is something like telepathic user interface)

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Pecisk]

Because "good enough" is just not enough in the market where competition is fierce, entrance is quite low for "good enough" and everyone looks for "best".

Those are rules. They are sure silly, but that's how market work these days.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

buy the rumor, sell the news

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Pieroxy]

I'd advise that the drop is entirely temporary and you can make yourself an easy 10% in less than a month by buying today.

I guess that's only if they can sell phones for less than the marketing they spend on them.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

They expected something that might actually sell. Not yet another iteration of the ugly windows phone trash.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

he unified windows 8 product family was an opportunity for microsoft to really deliver a combined, integrated entertainment and productivity experience. And they didn't.

Not sure how exactly you can say this. I have Xbox, Windows 8 on a laptop, Windows 8 on a tablet, and Windows Phone 7. Music and videos are available across all devices. I can pause on one device and resume on another. For instance I can listen to music on my TV, pause it and continue listening in the car. Or I can watch a TV show on the TV, pause it and hop in bed, continuing it there.

My tablet or laptop (or soon phone) acts as a remote controller for my Xbox; I can browse for music or movies or do searches on the device in my hand and see the results on the screen. This is especially good when searching for music to play, which is much easier with a keyboard.

Documents I write on my desktop are available to all my other devices via SkyDrive, and pictures or movies I take on my phone are automatically synced with Skydrive. These are also synced wirelessly if I choose with my laptop, along with any music I download. Soon I'll be able to play a game on my phone, pause it, then resume it on my tablet or xbox.

Caendar, mail, contacts, messages, all sync between desktop, tablet, and phone. I can even turn my purely entertainment Windows 8 tablet into a fully functional productivity PC (capable of running all my current software including matlab, photoshop, and office) by plugging in a keyboard and mouse.

So please, I'd live you to point me to an ecosystem which can do all this as seamlessly.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

So please, I'd live you to point me to an ecosystem which can do all this as seamlessly.

Apple is pretty close.

The only ones they miss are playing games on the Apple TV (occupies the same space as the XBox but it's not a game system), and your last paragraph about running your desktop applications on your tablet. Which incidentally Windows 8 doesn't do either on ARM based tablets. Though there are iWork apps for the office suite, several drawing apps, and I believe there's a matlab app (I know there are apps that do similar but possibly not identical things)

Personally I think Win 8 phones will be good if for no other reason than to give Apple a kick in their complacency. Android lacks the vertical integration nessesary to compeet with Apple in this direction so it's good to see someone else entering the fray.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[starless]

After the announcement, Nokia stock price has gone down 15 % from yesterday's closing value at OMX Helsinki. So, not the kind of announcement the market was expecting, it seems.

"Buy the rumor, sell the fact"
e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market#Market_psychology

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[swb]

AirPlay mirroring though kind of covers the gap between large-screen device usage (ie, XBox) and what you can do locally on the iPhone or iPad. I bought an AppleTV on a lark and find I use the mirroring function a lot in the living room when I find something worth throwing up on the screen. It can be a little weird touching the screen in my hand but looking at the screen across the room, but it works pretty well with games you can control via accelerometer.

I'd like to see some more apps available for AppleTV, but I think a broader benefit would be wider licensing of the AirPlay mirroring capabiity to TV/AV receiver makers.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Mike Buddha]

I've been waiting for this sort of integration for a while. I thought Apple would be the first. They had almost all the parts together, although their OSX and iOS integration sucked, pretty much (iTunes is it? Seriously?).

Now MS has an opportunity to scoop up all the marbles. I thought they were going to do this years ago when they announced all the Zune integration, but the integration was never quite up to snuff. Recompiling your apps for Zune never quite worked. It was akin to Java's "write once, debug everywhere" mantra. They never announced a handheld gaming initiative that really worked, either. They were talking about Xbox everywhere, but Zune didn't do it, and Windows Mobile never got off the ground.

I'm getting stoked reading about the Windows 8 development and the available data synchronizations between desktop devices, tablets, and mobile. The whole "write once, compile to any Windows 8 device (drivers included)" is just the sort of thing to get me to invest big in this new technology.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Kjella]

Something that gave them the "wow" factor, something that said they'd steal Apple's profits or Android's popularity. Sure, it's an alright launch for a platform that has a 3.5% market share and climbing but this is Nokia we're talking about, the Chipzilla of cell phones. The people still holding Nokia stock are those who bought into the Elop kool-aid and for every quarter some of them go "You took a smoldering platform and poured gasoline on it for THIS?!", their Q2 sales were crap and compared to Q2 last year they've gone from a 391 million euro profit to a 327 million loss on operations - that is they're now losing money on selling phones before all the other costs. They can't afford to burn this kind of cash for long, and if the steam runs out before their market share recovers, well...

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit, it's gonna land with a resounding "thud". Customers aren't going to buy Windows Phone 8. They gave Microsoft a second chance in the market with Windows Phone 7, and they all got burned again. There's not going to be a third chance. Surface isn't going to play with actual consumers, either, despite the bizarrely overwhelming hype it's getting in the tech media.

Look, without an install base, you don't have shit. The flipside of that is that with an install base, devs will put up with a certain level of irritation in the toolchain. If Zune cross-compilation was perfect, the platform would have still failed, because nobody really wanted to buy a Zune. Meanwhile, iOS has a vibrant ecosystem despite every developer needing to purchase a Mac and write in some weird-ass language they've probably never used before.

Apple is going to hold on to their chunk of the market because that's what Apple always does. Google kicked their way into a startlingly large install base by giving their operating system away for free and allowing OEMs to screw with it to an alarmingly large extent; they basically out-Windowsed Microsoft. RIM might be able to cling, teeth-and-toenails, to a part of the business market solely through institutional inertia. But Windows Mobile is only going to compete to the extent that Microsoft keeps shoveling cash on the fire.

And that's the other thing. Microsoft is also going to be shoveling cash into a new Xbox launch soon. And they're about to piss off every business customer with a massive Windows UI change. And the PC market is slowing to a crawl, and businesses are learning that they don't need to buy the new Office version right when it comes out, if at all, because the business case isn't there. If you knew how many businesses are sticking with Office 2003 right now, in 2012, it would... actually, it probably wouldn't surprise you much at all.

They're betting the farm on the Windows 8 "ecosystem" and I don't think it's going to play out well for them. I think this is going to be the biggest major setback Microsoft has had in a long time.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Sir_Sri]

I have

Right, so do I. I suspect most /. users can do almost all of these things already. But we are the distinct minority. That's what I mean by 'having all the pieces but not bringing them together'.

to all my other devices via SkyDrive

Unless you have the work fuck in them. then you might be in trouble. http://androidspin.com/2012/08/21/microsoft-skydrive-not-so-private-no-nude-content-or-profanity-in-the-cloud-or-risk-being-banned/

Hence it's not quite ready for prime time.

I'd live you to point me to an ecosystem which can do all this as seamlessly.

No one can, that was sort of my point. This is a benchmark those of us who know what google docs or skydrive or dropbox are, and know how to configure a router can do already with a hodgepodge of devices from various manufacturers. But the average consumer can't navigate doing so yet. Microsoft, Sony and Apple all *could* produce something that everyone manage that. But they aren't.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Sir_Sri]

Bullshit, it's gonna land with a resounding "thud"

Probably, but that doesn't mean the prospect of it all working isn't appealing.

They're betting the farm

I've wondered about this. I don't think they are. They'll bet he farm on windows 9, between now and then they're just shoveling a very expensive lab project at us.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless the recent gain is what's temporary...

Recent gains are based on speculation of success with WP8. Perhaps today's drop is a correction of that.

Regardless, if you plan to make an "easy" profit by buying now, I'd advise that you make sure to get out before Nokia announces a Q3 profit warning, which might also come in less than a month.

Personally, I wouldn't touch NOK with a shit-poker. Elop has implied a commitment to WP even if it requires burning the company to the ground, and that's where all its assets have been going.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a big deal. Buy the rumor, sell the news. Happens to most stocks.

It'll be more interesting to see pricing on these phones. If they end up being cheap (i.e., heavily subsidized by MS), then they'll be a hit.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

Right, so do I. I suspect most /. users can do almost all of these things already. But we are the distinct minority.

This is where you're wrong, doing these things takes no expertise and no futzing or fiddling with settings. You sign in to Windows Phone or Windows 8 with your microsoft account, and everything I mentioned is all automatic. Log into a Windows 8 PC or Windows RT tablet for the first time and you have your mail, calendar, contacts, pictures, music, apps are all ready. Same for Windows Phone. Skydrive is installed by default and there's no configuring required. Xbox smartglass is as simple as starting the app. No configuration is needed to get things talking as long as you are both on the same network. Not a single "advanced configuration" option is required to enable the above. The catch is you have to be within the Microsoft ecosystem of products to have everything talking together, but that's the price to pay for things "just working".

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Karlt1]

You do realize that everything that you said is possible with iOS and iCloud right and has been since last year?

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Sir_Sri]

Oh sure, I was talking about right now it requires skill.

Windows 8 is terrible, so no one is going to use it. So that's not helping. It doesn't matter what you *can* do with it, it won't be done because no one sane wants to use Windows 8.

You also tie yourself to your microsoft account - which is a big no no, and sort of invalidates the whole capability. You have to create a microsoft account (why do I need a microsoft account at all? What business is it of MS what I'm doing with my stuff? Why do I have to follow a MS TOS for my own data? What happens if MS revokes my account? No f'n way). It's the same basic problem with google services (or itunes), if I need to marry myself to a 'cloud' service for this it's not accessible to the average user, nor is it a good idea.

As I said, skydrive isn't ready for prime time, anything that has any capacity to revoke your access is not ready for prime time. Which sort of throws the whole thing out the window.

I realize you are sort of a MS shill, and I get where you're coming from. In the enterprise that makes sense - you stick with the MS family and licencing and everything plays nice together. But for a home users you cannot ever have a situation where you've handed over the functionality through a cloud service that can be revoked. Again, they have the pieces, but they don't work together. When you build a system like this on your own you run your own server, which everything talks to. The moment I can have my account banned by microsoft for having the word fuck in it, or I could have my account shut down for being in the wrong country I don't have a service I can use. It's a research project demo from MS, but it's not a consumer product.

Not a single "advanced configuration" option is required to enable the above.

And that, is why MS is still failing at this. When an MS shill doesn't understand what level their average user is at, you're never going to get the project where it needs to be. What happens when all of these devices are on a single unsecured access point? What happens when you have 3 xboxes and 3 phones and 3 laptops? What happens when I can't access my skydrive account? What about playing music on Windows 8 on anything other than the surprisingly terrible media player? What happens when your skydrive account gets hacked (and that depressingly, happens a lot)? 'advanced configuration' isn't configuring a DMZ on your router and managing QoS, it's how to even set a password, how to pick a password that's secure, how to manage a system that isn't secure, how to manage your own data hosted by someone else etc. etc. etc. You can read /., that probably puts in the top 1% of computer users. Try not to forget that when thinking about how a product 'works'.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

"Buy on the rumor, sell on the news."

Old stock market aphorism.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

First thing's first:

I realize you are sort of a MS shill, and I get where you're coming from.

Sorry, not even close. It's a shame the climate on slashdot is as such that I have to actually type this out to justify my point of view without being labeled a shill. What you're implying is that I post opinions here I don't actually hold outside of monetary compensation from Microsoft. This is not true at all. I bought all the aforementioned products (except Windows 8, which I have through Dreamspark Premium) after comparing them with the competition and choosing which is best for me, given my requirements. I'm probably the opposite of many Slashdotters in that I use Linux daily for work and use Windows at home by my own choice. My profession is roboticist, and I'm a published researcher in the field. I contribute regularly to the largest open source robotics project, ROS. I have no connections with Microsoft, live on the east coast, and no one in my family or friend group works for or is associated with Microsoft (except my girlfriend's cousin was Bill Gate's personal assistant for many years. Never met her.). I hold a positive view of Windows 8, Windows Phone, and Microsoft Office including the Ribbon and Metro interface, and use each by my own choice regardless of any outside influences. I also own an iMac, an iPad, various cheap Android tablets for hacking, and I have positive views of those pieces of hardware as well.

Windows 8 is terrible, so no one is going to use it. So that's not helping. It doesn't matter what you *can* do with it, it won't be done because no one sane wants to use Windows 8.

Windows 8 is an excellent OS for almost all objective measures of OS quality. It's stable, secure, compatible with a vast array of hardware, it maintains compatibility with old software, it is easy to configure, easy to maintain, and the resource footprint is very low. More importantly, on all of these points it exceeds its predecessor. That is, it is more stable, secure, etc. than Windows 7 for a variety of reasons I can list if you really want me to. Please note that in all discussions held here on Slashdot, these points have not been in question. No one is talking about how buggy and bloated and unstable Windows 8 is (because it isnt't; there's nothing to complain about in that regard). All discussions revolve around the most subjective and personal aspect of the OS (and also the most customizable): the UI.

What I think you mean when you say Windows 8 is terrible, and correct me if I'm wrong and you really mean the other aspects I mentioned of the OS are in question, is that you hate the UI (and therefore most everyone else will hate it). I think for a great many users, Metro offers benefits that perhaps aren't realized by most people on slashdot, as they are more computer literate. These include consistency in the UI, as search and settings is in the same spot for every app; predictability across the OS, as pressing the right mouse button, pressing the windows key, swiping in from edges or mousing to corners does the same thing no matter where you are in the OS; easy to manage controls, as most user centric settings have been distilled into a simplified settings screen; easy ways find, update, and uninstall apps, as there's a centralized repository to manage this, and uninstalling them is as simple as right clicking instead of delving into the control panel. Most of these benefits are not realized for people like you or me, but, as evidenced by the success of the iPad, simple interfaces like this can be very effective for novice users (which is most everyone).

That might leave you to say MS has abandoned the power user in Windows 8, but I find it's customizable enough to fit my needs. Here's my current start screen on one of my test machines I'm experimenting with. The transparent background is a little buggy with animations, but it's coming along. I like this much better than the start m

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Sir_Sri]

Windows 8 is technically fine. It's just a terrible design. The inconsistent UI makes is basically unusable.

These include consistency in the UI

You've clearly never had to evaluate accessibility professionally. Windows 8 is completely inconsistent in how it behaves. We've been running it through its paces here at work (where we have a lot of people who are experts on this sort of thing, including working with microsoft on office) and basically, don't use windows 8. Everything that's wrong with windows 8 can be summed up in 1 word: inconsistent. The UI doesn't behave predictably, and it's not consistent with previous behaviours for no apparent reason.

Also, you come across like an MS shill, most people here come across as linux shills. As i said, your point of view makes a lot of sense in the enterprise.

I'm sorry, I think you're being contradictory. If I'm understanding you correctly, you want some sort server type product you have at your home which hosts all your data and media with minimal configuration and talks to a variety of devices from a multitude of manufacturers to facilitates seamlessly sharing data across different standards of communication and data formats to all different devices. Sorry that's not happening. Ever.

No, that's not what i said, and I'm sorry you don't understand, but you'll get there. You actually have a good view of what an idealistic world should be, but of course we don't have that (full interoperability, which, as I say, is what those of us who live the lifestyle now have, linux servers, iphones, PS3s, home lighting, all talking to each other). As I said, how do we configure everything now (without skydrive)? Right, I have a windows 2008 file and webserver, windows 7 desktops, some home theatre PC for TV, etc. etc. etc. Small business and 'home' are merging. MS has, traditionally, been pretty good at realizing that. With Skydrive they are - they're just assuming they should be the server provider, which is a non starter.

I don't know how to make that clearer.

well for starters you're a student who managed to find dreamspark software for free. Good for you, if you're one of our students you'll encounter some of our professors (who have PhD's in comp sci or software engineering) who can't manage that. When you get caught up to the point of realizing that's the problem you'll figure out just how unclear this stuff is. Without a doubt the Xbox has been microsofts greatest push forward in usability and accessibility, that's why both your dad, and an 8 year old who can barely print letters properly (average grade 3) can both manage to use it.

Have a look at http://seattleorganicseo.com/sosblog/top-google-searches-in-2012-the-most-popular-keywords-study-version-3/ it's a bit off topic but it tells an enormous amount about how people understand the technology they use. The most searched for thing on google is facebook. Think about that. Let it sink in. People use google to find www.facebook.com. On average 4 or 5 times a month for every facebook user. Given that a lot of users probably don't use google to find facebook, some don't use google etc. you have an enormous collection of people, literally hundreds of millions, for whom the concept of typing in www.facebook.com, is too much and even need to type in google to google search to do a google search. And they do this repeatedly. That's the level that accessibility and usability live at. Windows 8 can't even decide whether it's 'metro' or traditional desktop.

they just don't work how you want them to: without a centralized data cloud service.

so you mean they don't work. If your home user service relies on uptime to a centralized data cloud service it's not a home user service. That's called an online backup service.

You asked what's the point of a centralized cloud service which maintains data

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

If you knew how many businesses are sticking with Office 2003 right now, in 2012, it would... actually, it probably wouldn't surprise you much at all.

Well, show me, i'd be interested to know.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Missing.Matter]

I enjoyed this little thread; this is one of the reasons I come to slashdot. Unfortunately I won't be able to respond to your post in detail except to say I understand your position on my point of view more clearly, and agree with some aspects, but I still can't discern what you would consider a fully working implementation given the current technology climate (the ideal situation I posed is not tenable). That is, you say Microsoft has all the pieces, but what according to you is unites them to your satisfaction? I don't see any reasonable resolution given the constraints your impose. If Microsoft isn't the server provider, and the user isn't the server provider (too complicated, too much configuration) who is? Or is there even a centralized server coordinating devices in your view?

Anyway, cheers.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[exomondo]

Sorry, not even close. It's a shame the climate on slashdot is as such that I have to actually type this out to justify my point of view without being labeled a shill.

It's not everyone, just some people on here that either think using the 'shill' label is an adequate rebuttal when discussing Microsoft or use the 'shill' label to attempt to gain the upper hand in the argument (like the 'I realize you're trolling, but I'll bite' method of starting a response).

I bought all the aforementioned products (except Windows 8, which I have through Dreamspark Premium) after comparing them with the competition and choosing which is best for me, given my requirements.

You'll find quite a lot of people on here do the same thing. I use Windows at work and a bit at home but i mostly use OSX (laptops and mac mini), i have an xbox (and ps3), had an ipad (but found i never really used it) and i had a WP7 phone and really liked it (i reckon the platform is brilliant) but the iphone made more sense because the apps i wanted weren't available on it at the time and while I use OSX predominantly at home the Windows Phone connector software is pretty average. I'm really torn on whether to go with Windows Phone 8 or the next iPhone, i really like WP but the iphone is kind of the bog standard choice and the support at the apple store if something goes wrong is great!

Now a lot of people - like me - just avoid posting anything positive about experiences with Microsoft products, or things Microsoft is doing well because it's not worth the effort given that it will likely just be down-modded and flooded with 'Shill' and 'Troll' responses. Windows Phone actually is objectively a good product, but instead of discussion on its merits you get detractors going back in time to discuss Windows Mobile instead or Microsoft's past business practices or dismissing it for its low marketshare (Linux and OSX can have low desktop marketshare though, that's ok).

All discussions revolve around the most subjective and personal aspect of the OS (and also the most customizable): the UI.

Actually it's only one aspect of the UI, the start screen, and some people will act as though this one element is the be all and end all of the entire operating system yet if they had done Windows 8 with the start menu you'd have people saying 'why should i upgrade, it's no different'.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that people were expecting some big number mp camera, but to be honest the floating lens could be a lot more useful. Not only does it seamlessly fit into the phone, you can take photos which completely impossible with a normal smartphone camera, ad it's not some crazy big size or rez.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

You asked what's the point of a centralized cloud service which maintains data

No, I didn't. I know exactly what the point is. And it's useless if you can't control it or can be locked out of it.

So useless that hundreds of millions of people use GMail, hundreds of millions of people use Hotmail, 150 million+ use iCloud, 50 million+ people use Dropbox, i could go on but your assertion has been categorically disproven.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[smash]

Most of the big ones on 2003 currently that I'm aware of are upgrading to 2007 / 2010 in the next 6 months.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[humanrev]

Sounds like it works well for you. For better or worse though, I'd rather have an ecosystem which was comprised of elements from different vendors and open platforms rather than surrendering all my tech to only one proprietary vendor (in your case, Microsoft). Probably wouldn't work as seamlessly, but it would mean less trouble later down the track should I feel that vendor is being a dick, I can swap out components for something else.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[Anonymous Coward]

You could do that with BeO in the 80's.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[aliquis]

Stock price had increase by about 100% in little over a month before the fall.

So indeed the stock has pulled in some new people and lots of people new to Nokia hoped that they would release something awesome. And this at least was expected since it's what has been leaked about Windows Phone 8 already. Many wanted tablets and 808-like PureView(?) cameras to.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[jwhitener]

They certainly don't seem to advertise that very well.

Re:Nokia stock price plummets

[ItsIllak]

Just thought I'd pop back... Stock price "plummeted" from 2.80 to 2.40 - it's now back up to 2.79 - as I said, easy 10% on your money...

Stock market swings are not a reflection of the consumer market, it's a reflection of how bankrupt that whole industry is...

Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

(Posting AC because I'm at work and I don't log in from work.)

Despite Nokia's many missteps (and goodness knows there have been many), I'm happy to see their new generation phone hit the market and I sincerely hope it succeeds. I say this as an unabashed Apple fanboy who will never buy a Nokia nor Windows phone. I say this because I want their to be more options that are successful. I want their to be different options that are successful. These options force companies, including Apple and Google (and their manufacturers) to improve their offerings.

And before anyone jumps in with an anti-Apple screed about how they'd prefer to litigate rather than innovate, stuff it. Samsung slavishly copied Apple and Nokia has clearly proven you can design a next-gen phone that looks nothing like the iPhone even though it's obviously influenced by the iPhone. If Nokia, a company who has been making enormous mistakes of late, can figure out how to design around Apple's design and utility patents, surely Samsung could have if they'd invested a smidge of effort into doing so.

Anyhow, I hope Nokia does very well with the phone and I look forward to checking it out.

Re:Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

You think the design elements and ideas Apple incorporated were entirely original? You silly, silly man.

Re:Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung slavishly copied Apple

Yeah, according to one court that sits about 5 miles from Apple HQ. Funny the rest of the world disagrees you jingoistic Americunts.

Re:Happy

[romiz]

Samsung slavishly copied Apple and Nokia has clearly proven you can design a next-gen phone that looks nothing like the iPhone

Apple paid $1 billion to Nokia, plus $8 per device for patent infringement because iPhone's technical parts were infringing Nokia patents. And that is for real, hardware patents, not bouncing menus or pinch-to-zoom. Apple is as much guilty as Samsung may be, and I really wish Nokia went all the way and refused licensing instead, to give Apple a taste of its own medecine.

Re:Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple used FRAND patents owned by Nokia which EVERY phone maker MUST do because the FRAND patents are required to make functional phones. Apple disagreed with the royalty rate Nokia was offering and the two went to court to have the court determine the rate. Apple had every intention of cutting them a check and thus no infringement took place - just a disagreement over the rate required.

But feel free to make shit up if you want.

Re:Happy

[WilyCoder]

Seems that everyone was cool with the FRAND licensing terms Nokia had. Everyone except the new kid on the block.

Re:Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone was cool because they all paid exactly same price.

But Nokia demanded special favor from Apple (access to its GUI patents) or otherwise Apple would need to pay doubled price.
Apple didn't accept that.

Nokia got only 4.x euros per Apple iPhone. Nothing more. Apple won the case, Nokia bluff was called and Nokia didn't get access to Apple GUI patents and neither got double license fees.

That is hard fact what Nokia has informed Finnish government what happened.

Re:Happy

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung slavishly copied Apple

Yeah, according to one court that sits about 5 miles from Apple HQ. Funny the rest of the world disagrees you jingoistic Americunts.

It even uses the exact wording that Apple uses, just like when all the Apple fanbois justified lack of Bluray by saying it was a "bag of hurt" just because that's what steve jobs said.

I can't wait to get my hands on this baby.

[MRe_nl]

And I thought you'd be getting a free one, what with working for Nokia ; ).

Does it run Linux?

[pesho]

Sounds like a nice piece of hardware, but does it run Linux (read Android or MeeGo)?

Re:Does it run Linux?

[bondsbw]

Yes.

(Stupid question deserves stupid answer.)

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

This must be the most boring meme around or, if you're serious, you must be stupid.
Either way, thanks for posting. Not.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[amiga3D]

Meego would be nice. I wonder if any of the Nokia engineers have it working on the new hardware?

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Complete Android and MeeGo installation packages are available at the moment of release, with fully supported hardware and a development kit. Happy hacking!

Re:Does it run Linux?

[rathaven]

Only if you can get around secure-boot...

Re:Does it run Linux?

[peppepz]

Windows Phone 8 uses the real Windows 8 kernel, doesn't it? If so, I'll bet that the thing runs UEFI-on-ARM, with the associated "secure" boot in its non-deactivatable personality. In this case you could forget about installing anything not signed by Microsoft on the device.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes - because the one thing that the smartphone market really needs is another phone that runs Android. I have used Android since I bought the first G1, so don't get me wrong - I like the platform. But the simple fact of the matter is that lately it seems like customers have a choice of Android, Android, Android, Android... Android of course... Some Android phones... and the iPhone. Basically things are starting to feel mildly stale. Windows is the first breath of fresh air I have seen in a few years now.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a nice piece of hardware, but does it run Linux (read Android or MeeGo)?

Troll right?

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

ubuntu and redhat have secure boot distros

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

But it is an ARM processor and Linux runs on ARM. So it can run Linux, but you are not able to install it unless you crack "secure" stuff.

Platform tweaks needed to the OS?

[rjstanford]

From TFA:

Nokia’s PureMotion HD+ is the company’s name for its tweaks to the display, including blur-free scrolling.

Why isn't this not only standard, but the only acceptable state these days? When will people (Android, I'm looking at you here) figure out that getting the basics so completely solid that nobody thinks about them is the kind of work that people should expect from their OS/Environment provider? Watching a video talking about how many cores the latest whatever has with jittery scrolling is just embarrasing.

Re:Platform tweaks needed to the OS?

[iluvcapra]

When will people (Android, I'm looking at you here) figure out that getting the basics so completely solid that nobody thinks about them is the kind of work that people should expect from their OS/Environment provider?

People who work for handset manufacturers buy pools and Audis with the bonus money they get for developing highly-marketable thingies like "PURE-MOTION-AITCH-DEE-PLUS".

Re:Platform tweaks needed to the OS?

[fa2k]

Well it does say "blur-free" and that's technically different than jitter. They are probably using the term incorrectly, but they could be referring to ghosting, which would be a seen as a kind of motion blur. I've never seen that problem before though. Also , smooth scrolling will be standard on Android 4.1.

Re:Wave

[Sparticus789]

What's that large $500 hole in my checking account in the distance, it looks like... iPhone 5.

FTFY

Hardware

[puddingebola]

The hardware does look impressive. Will everything come iwth NFC now?

Re:Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

This hardware will be "impressive" for about 5 minutes. There are already Android devices that have been on the market for months that surpass it. Windows Phone will always be behind because Microsoft designed the OEM partnerships that way.

Stop with the fud.

[seann]

in favor of Microsoftâ(TM)s platform. But those Windows Phone 7 smartphones won't upgrade to Windows Phone 8 software, and nor will they run Windows Phone 8 apps."

Stop saying that.

Say that windows phone 8 applications that are targeted for only windows phone 8, and use only windows phone 8 features will not run on windows phone 7.5.

This is not an issue.

Re:Stop with the fud.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

What would you call an app that is targeted for windws phone 8 and uses windows phone 8 features? I would call it a windows phone 8 app. That app will not work on windows phone 7. It is an accurate and true statement. saying it your way is just needlessly confusing and stupid. I think what you would like people to say is that very few applications will be written for windows phone 8. Therefore, it is not an issue.

Re:Stop with the fud.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what you would like people to say is that very few applications will be written for windows phone 8. Therefore, it is not an issue.

Which would be really funny because in order for that to happen windows phone 8 would have to fail. If it succeeded, it would immediately take the wind out of the wp7 sails and developers would instantly jump on the new bandwagon and take advantage of new APIs. Why wouldn't they? WIndows phone 7 doesn't have any users.

Re:Stop with the fud.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop saying that.

But it's true.

Say that windows phone 8 applications that are targeted for only windows phone 8, and use only windows phone 8 features will not run on windows phone 7.5.

But that's incomplete. No WP8 applications will run on wp 7.5, regardless of what features are used. You might as well say "WP8 phones won't run any iPhone fart apps made before 2008."

So your idea to stop with the FUD is to not mention WP7 buyers being abandoned, and instead focus so narrowly on just part the problem that it no longer looks like a problem? WP7 not being upgradeable is not FUD, it's Certainty.

Re:Stop with the fud.

[Anonymous Coward]

But that's incomplete. No WP8 applications will run on wp 7.5, regardless of what features are used.

It's as accurate as saying no iPhone 4S applications will run on iPhone =4 regardless of what features are used. The same can be said of the iPad.

Re:Wave

[Desler]

Or as most US consumers will do, they'll get it for $199 on contract.

WP 7 will get upgrades

[alen]

from what i've read they will get most of the upgrades and will go to version 7.8

but even then it shouldn't be a big deal to code apps for 8 and 7. happens all the time in the app store where most apps now require iOS 4.x and will have some special iOS 5 features if you have the latest version

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[sharpneli]

Actually it's not just "Similar OS but with more features". WP8 is a completely new OS with completely new API. You need to do everything differently. WP8 uses the WinRT API. It's like going from pure java android (ndk not allowed) into iOS:

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[Anonymous Coward]

from what i've read they will get most of the upgrades

That's a lie. 7.8 gets the new homescreen and that's about it. If wp8 takes off, you can say bye-bye to wp7 development because who in their right mind wastes money devving for a platform with no users. They'll be too busy learning and using the new wp8 APIs. WP7 is done, dude. And if it isn't it'll only be because WP8 flopped.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[wile_e_wonka]

it shouldn't be a big deal to code apps for 8 and 7. happens all the time in the app store where most apps now require iOS 4.x and will have some special iOS 5 features if you have the latest version

Inaccurate statement. We're talking about a completely different realm here from "people do this in iOS all the time." We're talking about App makers paying app developers to code the same thing two different ways so that their app will work on two platforms, neither of which has any market share to speak of. Even if 8 takes off, no one will pay to port these things to 7--the market share is just too small.

Basically, I feel bad for anyone who bought a phone running Windows Phone 7, because it is a lost cause. And anyone who going forward buys a phone running Windows Phone 7 is either stupid, doesn't care about apps (this may be true of anyone who buys a Windows Phone anyway), or was badly informed by a dishonest salesperson.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[shutdown -p now]

You don't really have to do everything differently. First, because it still runs Silverlight-based WP7 apps. And second, because WinRT APIs are actually very close to Silverlight, so porting can often be done with as little as changing a bunch of "using" statements for namespaces in your C# code.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm sure if windows phone 8 takes off devs are going to bother being backward compatible with a dead platform with next to no users. Tell me another one.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[shutdown -p now]

I wasn't saying anything about backwards compatibility. I was responding to a comment that claimed that you had to "do everything differently" as a developer when moving from WP7 to WP8, which is false.

Reading comprehension is very important if you want to write quality troll comments.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading comprehension is very important if you want to write quality troll comments.

No, dumbass. Quality trolling means not ignoring reality. Especially the reality that devs are not going to target old and busted wp7 if wp8 takes off. But keep swilling that kool-aid, useful idiot.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[Anonymous Coward]

nokia is also pushing all their new camera and map stuff to the old lumias.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[exomondo]

If wp8 takes off, you can say bye-bye to wp7 development because who in their right mind wastes money devving for a platform with no users.

In that case who cares? Saying bye-bye to wp7 development has no effect if the platform has no users.

Re:WP 7 will get upgrades

[exomondo]

Yeah, I'm sure if windows phone 8 takes off devs are going to bother being backward compatible with a dead platform with next to no users. Tell me another one.

Then who cares? If the platform has no users then being backwards compatible serves no purpose. The only thing that would matter would be going forwards, which doesn't appear to be a big deal.

Anyone know where Steve Balmer is?

[gallondr00nk]

Quoth the man himself:

I'll bet you right now that the next app developer to hit it really big will be a developer on Windows."

I'd quite like to take him up on that bet.

Re:Anyone know where Steve Balmer is?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL you stupid microsoft shill always trying to get a dollar astroturfing for microsoft.

Everyone hates you you dumb M$ astrotuffer shill

Hm, yeah, true, I suppose simply calling out Ballmer on one of his grandiose claims with a very clear air of cynicism and snarkiness towards Microsoft WOULD still seem like a "shill" to an underevolved mind like yours. Would the GP be required to include exact, detailed instructions to murder specific Microsoft executives before you'd think of it as not a shill?

Re:Anyone know where Steve Balmer is?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bet you right now that the next app developer to hit it really big will be a developer on Windows."

You're really that impressed by empty posturing? Wow.

Re:Anyone know where Steve Balmer is?

[gl4ss]

it's just how you define hitting really big.

his words pretty much imply though that nobody will hit big this year.

Re:They're dead

[gl4ss]

Rovio already said they're not going to make Angry Birds for this platform.
Others are following suite.

wp7 has angry birds, I think it was alex or Ab in space that wasn't?
anyhow.. they're probably port it over to wp8 since you can finally use some real languages and there's cpu to use.

that still won't make answering a call and resuming your play after that a pleasant excercise.

Re:Wave

[amiga3D]

Heh, I've got the money stashed. Waiting for the iPhone5 now.

"More nimble competitor"?

[pnot]

For once I agree with Elop on something. I can fully believe that Nokia are "nimble" these days. Same way a gnat is more nimble than an 800-pound gorilla.

Personally I'm more interested to see what Jolla come up with.

Re:"More nimble competitor"?

[incongruency]

As a current N900 owner, I'm also very interested in what Jolla will produce, as I'm very much hoping that to be my next phone.

However, as a US citizen the radios they choose to put into the phone may prohibit me from using it, as I'm not keen on switching from TMobile because of my grandfathered data plan.

I'm also concerned about if their phone will have a physical keyboard or not, but it is said that there will be a developer edition, which may be more to my liking.

They're also saying that the Jolla phone will be able to run Android applications, and if so that'll be an exciting development:

Re:"More nimble competitor"?

[pnot]

They're also saying that the Jolla phone will be able to run Android applications, and if so that'll be an exciting development:

Thanks, I'd missed that bit of news! That would be a massive boost for them -- probably a necessary one too, given the size of the app ecosystems they're up against. Hmm, think I'll hold off on the Galaxy Nexus purchase for a little while longer...

Re:Wave

[travisco_nabisco]

Only if they are eligible for a new contract at the time. Most people will be somewhere in the middle of a contract and will likely have to pay something between the $199 and the $500 for an early hardware upgrade.

-1 Pedantic

[Tarlus]

"Windows 8" != "Windows Phone 8." There is a huge difference.

Re:-1 Pedantic

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Phone 8 shares a kernel, file system, graphics support, and other elements with Microsoft’s upcoming Windows 8.

Yes, I know I'll be banned for reading the article, but I also know that for every AC you ban, 2 more will take my place.

Re:-1 Pedantic

[Anonymous Coward]

Actual TFA points out that Windows Phone 8 = same Win8 kernel as Win8 tablets running WinRT on ARM.

W

Re:-1 Pedantic

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually there isn't, Windows Phone 8 is running the Windows 8 kernel.

http://www.informationweek.com/byte/commentary/240002668

Re:-1 Pedantic

[shutdown -p now]

Kernel, same. Userspace, though, rather different. Certainly different enough to not warrant lumping them together, not anymore than OS X and FreeBSD.

It would be more correct to say that both are NT 6.2, since that's the kernel version.

Re:-1 Pedantic

[Tarlus]

Kernel != OS

Re:-1 Pedantic

[oji-sama]

Another pedantic thing: When the title is "First Impressions of Windows 8 Powered Nokia Lumia 920 and 820", I'm a bit dissappointed that most of the description is not about first impressions of those devices. Oh well, I'm sure we'll get a lot of first impressions on 12th.

Re:-1 Pedantic

[hazydave]

Windows 8 Phone and Windows RT will both include the Win32 API, or much of it. Only Microsoft gets to use it. The WinRT version will be on all systems. Sure, the set of default applications will be different, hard binaries can't run on all three (and MS is using managed/VM code, rather than fat binaries, to support the same WinRT apps on different hardware). So there's more than just the kernel in common. Same basic APIs.

Very sad

[Anonymous Coward]

To think that Nokia's own Symbian had more than 50% smartphone market share only three years ago and big plans for their Linux based highend OS, which was universally praised, and instead now going for an OS that not only locks the user down, but locks themselves in a position where they give away control of OS development, outsource all manufacturing (after shutting down most locations in Europe and firing loyal employees by the boatload) and need to contend with the likes of Samsung who do their own CPU, RAM, display etc. fabrication is just unfortunate. It's hard to not be cynical about this.

Microsoft obviously is pushing for positive publicity offering free samples to bloggers etc. but all the money in the world won't make the OS more attractive to the end-user, even with their new funky looking N9-like design. Functionality wise the it's lacking compared to Android and the restrictive Metro UI whether on your computer or on your phone is butt-ugly at worst and uninspiring at best.

On the other hand this might actually what MS alternatives have needed to become worth considering by more end users.

Re:Very sad

[Lumpy]

It's nice real world example that the Wrong CEO can utterly destroy a company almost overnight.

Re:Very sad

[Mike Buddha]

Oh, yes, because everyone knows the future is pushing your own boring knock-off of PalmOS, just like Apple and Google. There's no future in pioneering the first significant UI upgrade since 1984. They should have just keeped on keepin' on, like RIM.

I can't stand companies that ruin themselves by innovating.

Re:Very sad

[imnotanumber]

Oh, yes, because everyone knows the future is pushing your own boring knock-off of PalmOS, just like Apple and Google. There's no future in pioneering the first significant UI upgrade since 1984. They should have just keeped on keepin' on, like RIM.

I can't stand companies that ruin themselves by innovating.

Either I missed the <SARCASM> tag or you don't know the meaning of the words "upgrade" and "innovating"...

Re:Very sad

[21mhz]

outsource all manufacturing

They didn't outsource manufacturing, they shifted it to their own factories in Asia.

Re:Very sad

[andrew2325]

Maybe they will open source the whole thing and give you the option of installing it on any of their devices, allowing the community to continue it much further. It sounds like a much better idea to me. Redhat once upon a time had a distribution for the home user, which stopped at 9, I think. Anyway, they released it to the community, and Fedora is pretty cool over all. I'm more of a debian man myself. Out sourcing software can be a really good thing for Nokia. I just hate for all that symbian code and Lumia 900 and prior phones to go to waste, with Microsoft not supporting them and all. Could you get a pretty girl with a southern accent to say that to them with tears in her eyes?

Re:Very sad

[Anonymous Coward]

does n9 still outsell their win phones ? :)
hey, nokia, having shelled out for n9 (and motivated several other purchases of it)... i'm not buying a single winphone. although maybe i should buy another n9 as a backup when this one ceases to be...

Re:Very sad

[grumpyman]

The situation is different for RIM but it's interesting to see many /.ers opinions is that RIM should not develop their own OS and for RIM to dump their own OS and adopt Android.

I recall at the tail end of 3Dfx, they made plenty of marketing splash with Voodoo 4 and 5 and garner plenty of of excitement...

Re:Very sad

[Lumpy]

What are you smoking?

Re:Very sad

[Anonymous Coward]

It's nice real world example that the Wrong CEO can utterly destroy a company almost overnight.

Nokia had lost 70% of their market value, and dropping like a stone in market share, over the 3 years before Elop took over. The straight line towards destroying the company was why the former CEO was forced to go.

Re:Correction: Dual-Core

[gl4ss]

NOT quad-core

well, S4 is named to increase maximum confusion.

Re:Correction: Dual-Core

[Anonymous Coward]

NOT quad-core

^ Why is this voted down, isn't this a dual core phone?

It's time to switch

[DingerX]

I'll liked this line:

“This is Lumia, and it’s time to switch,” she said, in what felt like a possible official tagline for the device.

Isn't that what Nokia owners have been saying for the last year already? You know. "Hmm... I think I'll go see what Symbian device or Maemo/MeeGo iteration Nokia has on offer. Oh. This is Lumia, and it's time to switch."

Yes, Nokia has great hardware. They've done that well. Now they're pulling the plug entirely on WP7 upgrades. So any developers or customers who took a chance on WP7 are being told "sorry, please buy(-in) again". Maybe some customers will; but I doubt any companies will fall for the MicroLighting Stranger.

Re:It's time to switch

[Missing.Matter]

Now they're pulling the plug entirely on WP7 upgrades. So any developers or customers who took a chance on WP7 are being told "sorry, please buy(-in) again"

They are not "pulling the plug" as there are still updates in line for WP7. Consumers are getting many features not related to hardware via the 7.8 update and various apps. For instance the apps Nokia showed off today are all available for the Lumia 900. Developers aren't being screwed either, as all WP7 apps are forward compatible with WP8.

Re:It's time to switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Developers aren't being screwed either, as all WP7 apps are forward compatible with WP8.

But if the developers want to move to WP8 platform, they piss off 100% of their old customers since WP8 apps cannot run on WP7.

Apparently, it's not all about developers these days at MSFT.

Re:It's time to switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Now they're pulling the plug entirely on WP7 upgrades. So any developers or customers who took a chance on WP7 are being told "sorry, please buy(-in) again"

They are not "pulling the plug" as there are still updates in line for WP7. Consumers are getting many features not related to hardware via the 7.8 update and various apps. For instance the apps Nokia showed off today are all available for the Lumia 900. Developers aren't being screwed either, as all WP7 apps are forward compatible with WP8.

Polish it all you want, but the fact is that Lumia 900 buyers are about to have a SIX-MONTH-OLD device that's being left in the dust.

For that matter, if all the handwaving above is *true*, then why the HELL is WP8 not compatible with the slightly-old phones? Seems like they're porting "many features" to it already.

Finally, regarding devs, they've got two crappy choices - continue developing for an OS that the manufacturer has declared dead (WP7) or start all over again developing for an OS that will have zero customers at launch. Hell of a choice...

Re:It's time to switch

[davester666]

Um, no. The only 'feature' of 7.8 is make the root display appear to be Windows Phone 8. They might throw in some bug fixes. It cannot be compared at all with the current 'best in class' OS provider, namely Apple.

The best thing about this update for existing users is that it will force some carriers to at least push out the last bug fix, which fixed a significant text-input problem.

Re:It's time to switch

[Missing.Matter]

Not true, some of the features of Windows 8 including data counters, offline maps and turn by turn, xbox music, smartglass, are for sure coming to WP7 (some are already here). Microsoft released developer specific details of Windows Phone 8 at the Windows Phone developer summit. Most were hardware dependent, and the only non-hardware dependent feature talked about was the start screen. People thought that was it for WP8, but since then, tons of non-hardware dependent features have been leaked from the leaked SDK. At the developer summity Joe Belfiore, when asked if more features would be added, was very coy about the issue. Of course any features announced for WP7.8 at that time would also take the wraps off of WP8, which they're still keeping tight probably until Build 2012.

So the state of things are, more than just the start screen have already been brought to 7.8, the start screen will come in the future, and more features look like they'll be on the way. We are not getting Windows 8, but the state of things is a far cry from "pulling the plug."

Re:It's time to switch

[Mike Buddha]

Um, no. The only 'feature' of 7.8 is make the root display appear to be Windows Phone 8. They might throw in some bug fixes. It cannot be compared at all with the current 'best in class' OS provider, namely Apple.

The best thing about this update for existing users is that it will force some carriers to at least push out the last bug fix, which fixed a significant text-input problem.

Yeah, you won't be allowed to buy apps that you can't use on older devices, like iOS allows you to. FAIL!

Re:It's time to switch

[Alex Belits]

100% of their old customers

All five of them!

Re:It's time to switch

[hazydave]

Microsoft's EOLing support for Windows 7 Phones, not Nokia. They will have the 7.8 update, but that's basically the last scheduled service pack. It adds some UI queues from Windows 8 Phone, but not app compatibility. That's the place current Windows 7 Phone users are being screwed -- that phone you bought last month, or may yet buy this month (not folks here, sure, but there are plenty of people not wise to the ways of Microsoft, and a small number of them are buying Windows 7 Phones), is going to be abandoned, software-wise.

Developers aren't being screwed, no... the apps they've written (most major companies were paid by Microsoft to port them) will still run on Windows 8 Phone. And they'll be relatively easy ports to full Windows 8, except for the parts that aren't that portable. And if the developers stick with Windows on mobile, they'll all be jumping to Windows 8 now, that's where the hardware will be, since desktop Windows 8 will run these apps, too. No one's going to keep writing Windows 7 Phone apps, with only some 4 million sold... the first day of Windows 8's release, if it's Microsoft's greatest failure, they'll sell more than that.

However, it's not surprising the Windows 7 Phone hardware isn't being updated, and that's also Microsoft's fault. They didn't have any trouble orphaning Windows Mobile users for Windows 7 Phone, so it should come as no surprise the same is happening all over again. And by design. Windows 7 Phone, being based on the ancient WinCE kernel, was limited to single-core processors. Not sure what drove Nokia to not even try on the GPU side of things, or maybe that, and certainly the lower screen resolution, were dictated by Microsoft as well. Nokia's only fault was throwing everything after Windows 7 Phone. Microsoft paid for that, with $250 million per quarter to Nokia for doing so. Of course, the 10's of thousands of Nokia employees let go thanks to the tanking of the company over this (mostly the dramatic fall-off of SymbianOS sales, with no replacement sales from Windows Phone) also paid.

Re:Wave

[Anonymous Coward]

Or as most US consumers will do, they'll get it for $199 on contract.

...plus a mandatory 2 year data plan bringing the total cost of ownership to around $2,000...

This thread is reserved for MS shills

[Anonymous Coward]

I was expecting to see a long first post shilling for Microsoft and Nokia, but it seems that the whole thread is overrun with them. "amazing, wonderful, inclined to purchase..." Please stay away from this thread, it is reserved for professional advertisers only.

Re:Wave

[Desler]

Sure, the raving fanbois will pay early, but most people just wait for their uograde period to come.

Re:Correction: Dual-Core

[Desler]

There is also an S3 but that doesn't mean tri-core. All the S1s and S2s were single core. The number has never had anything to do with CPU core count.

Start button

[puddingebola]

Where is the Start button?

Re:Start button

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is the Start button?

The start button is bad and you should feel bad.

Re:Start button

[marcosdumay]

Nobody uses the start button, thus you aren't looking at it either. Why are you asking where something is if you don't even remember it exists?

Re:Start button

[puddingebola]

But how do I launch Minesweeper?

Re:Wave

[Desler]

Great. So what?

40MP Camera

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the 808 PureView.

I suspect. The 8Mp one on the Lumia isn't going to have people queueing up to replace their phone, despite the PureView name. Plus... it isn't shipping till Q4.

I'll be buying the 808.

Won't upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not upgrading from major OS versions is a huge deal. I wonder what technical reasons are preventing them from being able to update. I thought Android had it bad having to wait for CyanogenMOD in the worst cases....

How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID then?

[ItsIllak]

Not in the 10k region but still - I appreciate the first post was a bit heavy on the enthusiasm - my guess is an enthusiastic MVP rather than anything more sinister..

A dual core CPU and a huge battery are pretty great hardware specs. Also a mechanically stabilized sensor mechanism could be very big news, especially if their software really does make innovative use of the available pixels. The point has been made recently that for PC usage (sharing on FB etc, 2MP is more than enough, for print 5MP is enough - IF THE QUALITY IS THERE.

I assume the stock has plummeted because until a few days ago everyone was hoping for a 20MP sensor and a new tablet to go with the phones. On the other hand - the markets are idiots - buy today, you'll be 10-15% richer by the end of the month if you sell at a time when they don't arbitrarily decide to mood swing again...

I am a bit disappointed that we loose the smaller screen model - the 820 doesn't really replace the 800, it's more of a slightly smaller variation on the 920 - which is a pity. I personally prefer to hold a smaller screen closer to my face... However, for the feature set that WP8 brings (NFC, more home/lock screen flexibility, better camera tech), I might just have to go larger.

Final comment as everyone takes a snipe at this. I have a lumia 800 and I'm looking forward to windows 7.8. I don't care that they're not giving me Windows 8 - the differences between 7.8 and 8 are the differences between the base specification of the current hardware and the next gen hardware (screen resolution, NFC etc). Microsoft are just being honest that their latest phones have features that their older phones don't support. Apple astroturf that fact and that causes heaps of faulty software that fails to cope well enough.

Love Windows Phone, like iPhone (though these days can't justify the cost), frustrated by having to sideload, hack and generally tweak Android whenever I use it.

Re:Wave

[Inda]

And the rest of the world will get an S3 gratis on contract.

$199? seriously?

Re:Wave

[larry bagina]

With 2 year cell phone contracts, 1/24 or so would be eligible at random. However, the iPhone 4 was released in June 2010 so there are 3 months worth of early buyers that are freshly off contract.

Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[aristotle-dude]

I was hoping see some decent competition from MSFT to keep Apple on its toes but that is so weak. Why do they insist on that stupid flipping titles? People that I care about? If I want to see what "people that I care about" are doing, I can see notifications in the notifications bar pop up on my iPhone 4S or I can *gasp*, go into my facebook or twitter app instead of cluttering up my homescreen with their faces. Alternatively, I can alway "call" them. I hate the hub concept still and the flipping tiles are likely to give someone an epileptic seizure. It reminds me of some really badly designed website from the late 90's or early 00's.

Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen. I have to give you credit for trying to be original but give it a rest already. Also, nobody except fanboys like the "hub" concept. Stop trying to oversell your Xbox live and other services on the mobile platform.

BTW. Nice touch on slavishly copying Apple on the screenshot with the power and home button combo.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[tlhIngan]

Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen. I have to give you credit for trying to be original but give it a rest already. Also, nobody except fanboys like the "hub" concept. Stop trying to oversell your Xbox live and other services on the mobile platform.

Uh, the tile concept would be closer to Android than iOS.

Google did the "home screen" thing to avoid the "rounded rectangles with square grid of icons" patent on Android. So what happens when you unlock an Android phone? You see the home screen, which by default has a huge analog clock (only present on the lock screen on iOS, and it's digital there), and a bunch of frequently used apps (phone/messaging/browser), while the "grid of icons" is hidden by the "show all apps" button.

In its place, you can drop widgets to your heart's content on the home screen so you can see the weather at a glance as well when you unlock your phone, plus all your other social media things.

And judging by Android users, especially on /., they like the widget thing and seeing htat stuff.

Microsoft extended the concept with tiles - thus avoid any design issues with iOS and Android. The tiles are effectively widgets and you can see all your update stuff right there on your "home" screen (whatever it's called on WP8).

Why does "blocking innovation" mean "you must copy the UI"? Between Apple, Google and Microsoft experimenting with different UIs, I'd say it's far better they don't copy (Microsoft probably did LiveTiles to avoid anything Google might have.)

People want widgets - Microsoft extended Andorid's concept a bit further to explore stuff. iOS merely took popular widgets (weather and stocks) and tucked them away in a pull-down drawer (probably again to avoid anything Google might have), the concept of which well, came from Android (which would be hard for Apple to defend against if Google has patented that).

It's called innovation. Incremental at times, but worthy to test it out.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? More like flame-bait, here...

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[shutdown -p now]

Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen.

That would be why so many people hate widgets in Android, right?

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Missing.Matter]

I can see notifications in the notifications bar pop up on my iPhone 4S or I can *gasp*, go into my facebook or twitter app instead of cluttering up my homescreen with their faces. Alternatively, I can alway "call" them.

You can do all this in Windows Phone too. The difference is there are no hubs in iOS, so the opposite isn't true. For me, the iOS equivalent to hubs is launching twitter and checking twitter feeds, then launching facebook and checking facebook feeds, then launching linkedin and checking linkedin feeds then launching... you get the pictures? Everything in WP is aggregated right there, and any app can hook into it. In my photos hub I have all my photo editing apps right there when I'm browsing my pictures... no need to search manually group them into a folder or search through an unorganized list.

Even better with tiles is I can pin a contact to the home screen and see updates for that one person across all social networks he or she is on. Or I can pin myself to the home screen and see all updates for me across all social networks. Or I can open the pictures hub and see all picture updates across all social networks, and comment or like them right there.

Seriously, the only negative thing you can say about the tile concept is you don't like the animations. The idea is solid, and the implementation works.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you actually used windows phone? I dont mean played with it for a an hour or two, but actually taken the time as in a month or so running this OS?

I was running an iPhone 4S and had to run a month demo for my company on the Windows phone. We were testing the feasiblity of the device as an alternative smart phone for our staff. After running the device for a month I gave up my iPhone 4s and remained with the Lumia 900. The device just does what I want to do with my phone better than the 4s. The OS actually feels modern and helps me on a day to day basis and just as importantly to me feels personal in a way that the apple never achieved. I personally find the apple ios a little dated now when I go back to using it as everythign seems to take a few more steps to complete compared to my windows phone. Dont get me wrong the apple device is good and I can understand why the app investment etc will act as a massive barrier to people trying other devices out but for those who do make the jump I think they will find it is an effort well rewarded.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[aristotle-dude]

Get it through your thick skulls MSFT, people like apps and they don't like distractions with flip-flopping tiles on the homescreen.

That would be why so many people hate widgets in Android, right?

Do most Android users bother with widgets? Don't they consume battery power and slow down the UI? I would think that most people find gadgets on a phone to be a passing curiosity.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft extended the concept with tiles - thus avoid any design issues with iOS and Android. The tiles are effectively widgets and you can see all your update stuff right there on your "home" screen (whatever it's called on WP8).

Microsoft might never have heard usability problem "Information overload" when they designed Metro.

Few of many Metro design flaws are that it is step-less scrolling up/down, meaning that user can not easily just recall app/widget position in Metro and scroll there with few finger flicks. Instead user needs to focus to screen so she/he doesn't scroll pass the wanted tile.
This was fixed with Android and iOS by having a steps for every screen (with Android, you can chose different animations or no animation etc for it) so recalling the widget/icon position is much easier as person only needs to remember "it was on second page, top left corner".

The other huge design flaw in Metro was live tiles. In usability design, GUI should not randomly change it look. As user can not trust for memory what kind tile is he/she looking for. So instead just searching "gallery app", user needs to recognize and separate photo gallery app from person and group feeds or even from weather tiles what shows pictures. With Android and iOS, it isn't problem because icons do not randomly change their look. In Android, icons can be set to include notifications like ballots of un-answered calls or received un-read messages, but they are not disturbing user like Live tiles.

User needs to more focus to phone when using Windows Phone, than focusing to task what he/she was doing. Like with Android and iOS, user can just focus what is needed in natural way. Like in real life, if you want to hit nail to wall, you first search nail, then hammer and you place them to wall and you just hit nail with a hammer. Same thing is with Android and iOS, you know what you need to do, if you want to do something to photo, you simply send it to other app what does the job. If you want to view photos, you open gallery app because you know the wanted content (pictures) are located there.

The idea of having information right available with once glance, works well only when information amount is _very_ limited. Like when driving a car, you don't need to see oil pressure, tire pressures, door locking status, window position status, is radio turned on or off, are you pushing what pedal etc. You only get actually know what is important at that time, limiting information to speed and rpm gives user time to focus the surrounding of the car - actual driving. That is one reason why navigation systems etc are now wanted to limit or even ban from cars as they draw focus from driver. Same thing is with phones and other multimedia devices (who would want a TV to car for driver use?).

Windows Phone 8 is for serious ADHD kid dream to come true Metro 7.5 vs Metro 8.0 as you never need to simply complete the task, but you can just search and make queries what is continuesly changing in the GUI. When even a basic web desgin usability guidelines say that information should be limited what is shown to user at time, it is mystery how someone at Microsoft really allowed them to push Metro forward? Only because it was visually different from iOS and Android?
WP would be better without Metro, even the Zune interface (menus and apps itself use Zune UI) is OK when compared to Metro.

Android is so far best because it allows user to customize it as they want it to look and work. You don't find other Android phone same looking if you actually spend little effort to do so. I have said it now 2 years that one reason Android is awesome is because user can tailor it for their needs and demands, while WP can not. But now Microsoft made same argument with WP8, that WP is better than Android or iOS to allow users tailor GUI for user itself, not another way around.

I hope someone would show how to do anything like this, but with Windows Phone (7.8 or 8): Android custom "home screens"

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Widgets are interactive, Tiles not.

Widgets are actually stable ones (even with animations), when compared to Live Tiles what randomly change continuesly (was it 15-20 seconds until it stops and starts again when you touch screen).

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[shutdown -p now]

Tiles are interactive with this flipping thing, though it's obviously not anywhere near what Android widgets can do.

How a live tile changes itself is up to the app. They don't really have to keep looping.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[shutdown -p now]

Well, I'm an Android user, and I find widgets very handy. It's nice to be able to see my calendar for today and weather report as soon as I unlock the phone.

I didn't notice any slowdown or battery drain with stock widgets, or a couple popular third-party ones that I've had installed. Keep in mind that they shut down when the phone is locked, just as any other app.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not after you. You're still caught up in the whole "apps" model, where the platform is king. But they're abandoning the "platform" and going after the "ecosystem". One of the other posters above me got it right . . . When you're able to simply and seamlessly access your world regardless of which M$ based device you have, whether it be xbox, PC, tablet, phone . . . The apps won't matter. Apple got everything right except the ecosystem, and they didn't have the balls to sacrifice platform for ecosystem. But people still stuck in the apps paradigm just won't get it, and will be left behind.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[Anonymous Coward]

WP tiles are just bad widgets combined with bad icons - even the current Symbian phones look better than the WP ones.

Re:Speaking as a .NET developer, underwhelmed.

[hazydave]

Uh, the tile concept would be closer to Android than iOS.
Not even close. Android has a clear split between the list of all apps and the home screen stuff (which can be a variety of things, anything the user wants). Microsoft's mixing the app lister with the informational displays (which you can have on Android via home screen widgets). Microsoft's is clumsy.

And as far as tiles go -- they just even larger boxes around icons than Apple draws. Wasted space. And sure, you can draw those boxes around widgets too. But it's even less efficient, since hunting for a rarely used app should talk longer than those used all the time, and the information stuff shouldn't be randomly mixed with the app launcher stuff. This is entirely at one's control in Android -- you can pin your most-used Apps on the home screen, in a drawer on the home screen, or just leave it to widgets, if you need to get a quick 411 on a bunch of things with a glance at the home screen. Far more efficient, but maybe ever so slightly more difficult for novices to use.

Google did the "home screen" thing to avoid the "rounded rectangles with square grid of icons" patent on Android.

Incorrect. Apple design patented the "grid of rounded square icons" to avoid being copied. No one (well, except early versions of SymbianOS) did the rounded square icons. Android icons are like those of Windows, Linux, PalmOS, Newton, etc. And the row of icons is similarly historical -- on iOS and Android, they're both riffing on PalmOS and some of these others.

And in fact, the pop-up grid doesn't around Apple's patent. Samsung had the bad business sense and aesthetic taste to enforce a grid of rounded squares in their home shell (TouchWiz), to try and look more like iOS. That's one of the design patents they got slammed on last month.

WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[Lashat]

I know that I swim against the /. current here when it comes to Window Phone. I haven't drank of the MS or Apple or Linux koolaid. I use all three desktop OS flavors at work every week and they all have strengths and weaknesses. I never bought the first iPhone because of the soldered in battery. At the time I was using 2 batteries a day in the field. (not to mention the privacy concerns of not being able to REALLY turn off my phone). I had a miserable experience with the first Droid (randomly calling and texting). I went Blackberry for a while. Revisited iPhone, but the screen typing was horrid (large fingers). When it was time to upgrade in 2010 I went with the Samsung Focus and it just worked for me. I do like the Metro interface on the touchscreen, but always by-pass it when using Win8 on the desktop. Seems pretty useless on the desktop, but it would surely be useful on a tablet and possible a laptop with touchscreen.

The Nokia 900 WP7, had some advantages over the Samsung Focus S on the spec sheet. Bigger screen, bigger body (again... large hands), and the camera cmos appeared faster to me in the store. The other advantage is the Xbox Live connection. Love it! Games developed my interest in computers and I am a gamer at heart. My only complaint is that with the Case-Mate case I confuse the phone with my wallet when it's in my pocket sometimes, but I am working on the brain power required to recognize the difference.

I am only mildly concerned about not being able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8 with my Nokia 900. If I feel like I'm missing out on some must-have super app before my 2-year upgrade comes around, I will bite the bullet and pay the phone price.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[aristotle-dude]

I am only mildly concerned about not being able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8 with my Nokia 900. If I feel like I'm missing out on some must-have super app before my 2-year upgrade comes around, I will bite the bullet and pay the phone price.

Funny, how MSFT had those fake viral videos about other platform phones being a smartphone "beta test" and yet people like yourselves were beta testers for the Windows Phone platform. Enjoying your beta test?

I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[SuperKendall]

I like the WP7/8 design.

But Microsoft and Nokia made a TERRIBLE mistake by not letting people that bought at least the flagship WP7 phones upgrade to WP8. There is no excuse, and this has pissed a LOT of people off.

I even knew someone who had a WP7 phone. He ditched it to get an iPhone. You can't simply abandon users after a year and demand they upgrade hardware every year to get the latest update, that's way too often.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[Lashat]

I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".

You have that guarantee in writing, right?

Don't attack the messenger. I'm just asking because it seems that iOS 6 leaves out those original iPad owners. http://jaxov.com/2012/06/ios-6-features-compatibility-release-date-all-you-need-to-know/

I guess koolaid makes some people forget that existing generations of the iPhone are NOT always compatible with new iOS versions. Here is another story from way back in March 2011 to remind you http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/03/05/ios-4-3-will-not-be-compatible-with-all-idevices/

People like myself prefer to be called early-adopters or hobbyists. Look into it.

 

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[21mhz]

Then you are a fool. You were sold a flagship phone all the while MS and Nokia knew that what you really had was a lame duck.

Could you please point me at an official statement from Nokia to the effect of: "this is our top of the line phone for years to come". Or, maybe: "Now that we have our new WP8 phones, we decided we will leave Lumia 900 without any new features, applications, or bug fixes". The GP was sold a very decent phone, one that is still fully supported, and it wasn't made any less valuable by what's coming next. Not everybody is a wonky kid who must sport the absolutely latest everything. Ironically, people who care about what's "flagship" this month ditch their phones every year anyway.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an excuse, and unfortunately, the way I see it, Microsoft is damned either way.

WP8 is a switch from using the CE kernel to the NT kernel. It is way behind the NT kernel, and lacks a large number of features that XNU and Linux have, and barely supports SMP in a broken way. But I doubt the NT kernel is something they can just transplant onto existing hardware that it was never written for.

The way I see it, Microsoft faces two choices:
- Stick with the CE kernel, fall further and further behind as time goes on, or waste monumental resources modernizing Windows CE.
- Move to the NT kernel, get access to the Windows team's resources, and free up more of your resources to do newer and more interesting things. Catch here is that forward compatibility takes a huge hit during the switch.

Both choices have really ugly drawbacks. However, to me it seems clear that sticking with CE is a huge cost that spans years, if not a decade. Switching to NT has a huge short-term cost that is paid up-front. So the best long-term gamble here is to switch to NT. However, no matter *when* they switch, there will be customers left out in the cold because they are still on contract. The first round of WP7 buyers are coming off contract soon, which helps, but would you rather they take a gamble like this 3 years from now? As I said, they are damned either way.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[21mhz]

But I doubt the NT kernel is something they can just transplant onto existing hardware that it was never written for.

Let's play with this statement by changing one word:
"But I doubt the Linux kernel is something they can just transplant onto existing hardware that it was never written for."
This does not sound as credible; I wonder why.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[hazydave]

Pretty shocking they'd include the 3GS, 4, and not the original iPad, given that the original iPad has the same basic hardware as the iPhone 4, only clocked slightly faster. Then again, the 3GS is still on sale (free at AT&T), so they may feel compelled, even if the performance will suck.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[hazydave]

It's also got to make you question Microsoft in the long term. They dumped WinME compatibility for Windows Phone 7, and now Windows Phone 7 users are dumped for Windows Phone 8. Sure, it'll likely be three years or more before Windows Phone 9, but I'd be concerned, if I had any interest in W8P.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[SuperKendall]

I agree they cannot stay on a CE kernel.

However they should have done whatever it ook to make the NT kernel work on AT LEAST the last Lumia phone. Failure there was not an option - except that it apparently was. It will cost them so much goodwill and market momentum though, it's a huge burden they did not have to overcome.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[sd4f]

I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".

Excellent choice of weasel words "being able to" as we all know your 4S hasn't got long to go, and as soon as the next ipad comes out, you will also flock to that. That's what gets me with apple fanatics; the tech is so great that they can't wait to replace it... Makes no sense to me, good technology in my opinion is hard to replace.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[aristotle-dude]

I look forward to be being able to upgrade my iPhone 4S and iPad 3 to iOS 6 for "free" and later upgrading to iOS 7 next year again for "free".

Excellent choice of weasel words "being able to" as we all know your 4S hasn't got long to go, and as soon as the next ipad comes out, you will also flock to that. That's what gets me with apple fanatics; the tech is so great that they can't wait to replace it... Makes no sense to me, good technology in my opinion is hard to replace.

Weasel words? Is that the best you've got? Really? The iPhone came out a year ago and given than the iPhone 3GS is upgradable to iOS 6.x, it stands a good chance that even the iPhone 4 will be upgradable to iOS 7 next year when it comes out and the iPhone 4S will be as well as a virtual certainty given the history of past upgrades. The iPhone 4S has an A5 chip. Given that the iPad 2 will receive the iOS 6 upgrade, it is likely that the Retina iPad will also receive the iOS 7.x upgrade next year. The only weaselling I see is from you. Go back to wikipedia editing with your "weasel words" troll.

See: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/ at the bottom, the recently discontinued 3GS will still get the iOS 6.x upgrade as will the iPad 2.

Re:WP7 Nokia 900 owner here.

[sd4f]

Weasel words? Is that the best you've got? Really? The iPhone came out a year ago and given than the iPhone 3GS is upgradable to iOS 6.x, it stands a good chance that even the iPhone 4 will be upgradable to iOS 7 next year when it comes out and the iPhone 4S will be as well as a virtual certainty given the history of past upgrades. The iPhone 4S has an A5 chip. Given that the iPad 2 will receive the iOS 6 upgrade, it is likely that the Retina iPad will also receive the iOS 7.x upgrade next year. The only weaselling I see is from you. Go back to wikipedia editing with your "weasel words" troll.

Swing and a miss...

Of * course* it's not compatible

[gestalt_n_pepper]

As a vendor/customer/developer, that's *your* problem, buddy. Start recoding. Too bad about that little cost thing you and your clients now have to deal with. Unless you're a C++ developer, of course, in which case, compatibility is magically not a problem.

Microsoft's motto: We don't provide and automatic compatibility or upgrade path unless our development staff happens to give a shit.

Cheers!

Re:Of * course* it's not compatible

[Desler]

You don't necessarily have to recode since WP8 is backwards compatible with WP7 apps.

Re:Of * course* it's not compatible

[21mhz]

You spoiled a perfect rant with your pointless facts and unnecessary knowledge of the matter.

Micro$oft expects you to upgrade

[na1led]

every year. Upgrade your PC to run the new Windows, and upgrade your Phone to run the new OS. 1 year warranty, and 1 year life cycle.

Re:Microsoft is really dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Agh, isn't that cute, he figured out how to turn the caps lock on and off, it's so amazing watching the little guys grow up.

I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[dell623]

Repeated exhortations of how WP8 and the Lumia 920 were developed in conjunction. Wheeling out top Microsoft execs for every Lumia launch. Does any other WP8 really have a chance? Why do they even bother? There are several problems with Android, but Google has always gone to extreme lengths to make sure they didn't appear to favour an OEM, releasing flagship NExus devices with Motorola (when they were independent), Samsung, HTC, and Asus. That may of course change with Googorola. But right now, it seems Microsoft seems to feel that it won't hurt them at all if Nokia drives other OEMs out of the WP8 market. And you know what, I think they're right. With their insipid design and terrible software, I don't see Samsung and HTC competing with Nokia anyway. Maybe at the low end of the market. But when was the last time either of them released something as distinctive as the Nokia Lumia 920? Never.

Re:I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[oakgrove]

With their insipid design and terrible software, I don't see Samsung and HTC competing with Nokia anyway.

You have a point about HTC but Samsung could squash Nokia like a bug. Samsung makes their own CPUs, Screens, etc. while Nokia has been wholesale dissolving their manufacturing capacity. Samsung is still the sleeping giant in the cellphone industry despite being the second strongest player.

Re:I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[dell623]

How does that matter? Apple manages to make the lion's share of industry profits without manufacturing anything. Even's Samsung's recent jump in profits has been thanks to growth in their smartphone division, not the component division. Nokia seem to have retained their capacity for making cutting edge designs like Apple have. That's vital in the age of standardized software. Apple devices no longer sell because they have the best OS. They sell because of their brilliant designs and the fact that the first mover advantage and standardization has given them a huge advantage in their app ecosystem and user friendliness.

Nokia doesn't need to manufacture anything themselves to be successful again.

Re:I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[oakgrove]

Nokia is no Apple. Stop kidding yourself.

Re:I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[dell623]

Eh? No one is Apple. That doesn't mean you need to have your own component manufacturing business to be a successful smartphone company, which is what you are suggesting.

Re:I wonder how HTC Samsung etc. feel

[oakgrove]

Nokia is a has been. Now they're just a commodity integrator of other people's parts. Samsung would have them for lunch. You're obviously a fan. Sorry.

Re:They're dead

[rjstanford]

Rovio already said they're not going to make Angry Birds for this platform.
Others are following suite.

I'd certainly hope so. After all, if Zynga or Intuit started to make Angry Birds for the Windows 8 platform, I'd expect that to get its own /. article!

RFP: The /.INDEX

[ElitistWhiner]

Company /. rating algorithm is sought. A rating formula which reflects the ' currency' of an article's target company and its ' value' to the Slashdot community. For example OMX, NASDAQ, etc... in conjunction with the posting score (1-5), quantity of each from which is derived a numerical rating.

A four quadrant icon is envisioned which visually reads non-numerically number of posters, insight, information, interest and fun to accompany Lede headlines

Re:First impression? It sucks!

[jader3rd]

unlike XP where you could see everything you had in one shot.

For the vast majority of people, having three or four columns of Start menu, fold out with a chaotic grouping of small icons next to small folders didn't help them find their programs. They still had to take their mouse and scroll over each and everyone, just to make sure that they didn't miss what they were looking for. Many times it resulted in the mouse wandering too far outside of some invisible boundary, causing flyouts to collapse, and they'd start scanning all over again.

Re:Wave

[NatasRevol]

Unlike all the other smartphones...

Anyway ...

[ultrasawblade]

what's to become of Windows CE? Is this it's death knell?

Re:Anyway ...

[hazydave]

Pretty much. And that seems to be the way Microsoft wants it. It's lack of modern capabilities certainly held W7P back on technology. It's not really suitable for much... I guess it may still live on in some GPS units.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Anonymous Coward]

I appreciate the first post was a bit heavy on the enthusiasm - my guess is an enthusiastic MVP rather than anything more sinister..

Worthless shilling is ugly no matter who does it.

A dual core CPU and a huge battery are pretty great hardware specs.

Yeah...a year ago.

Also a mechanically stabilized sensor mechanism could be very big news

Only by checkbox marketers and the idiots impressed by gimmicks.

buy today, you'll be 10-15% richer by the end of the month

I'm losing more and more respect for you the longer I read your post.

I have a lumia 800 and I'm looking forward to windows 7.8. I don't care that they're not giving me Windows 8

I'm glad you've found a way to cope with being fucked over. The reality is if wp8 takes off development for wp7.x will nosedive as devs will focus on the new APIs and not bother with a platform with no users, e.g., windows phone 7. You got screwed buddy. Good keeping the stiff upper lip about it though. Quixote would be proud.

frustrated by having to sideload, hack and generally tweak Android whenever I use it.

Oh, I get it now. You're trolling. Funny Android moves 1 million units a day to all those "hackers", "sideloaders", and "tweakers". You are an idiot, by the way.

Re:They're dead

[cbhacking]

Mango apps resume instantly (they're suspended in RAM, that's all). If Rovio hasn't gotten around to recompiling Angry Birds for Mango I'd be surprised (it's literally a three-click process in Visual Studio) but I suppose that's possible. In any case, most games resume instantly after you switch back from the call interface, even if you're still on the call (games will usually resume in a paused state for obvious reasons, but that's just a convenience fo rhte user).

WP8 will run all WP7 apps, which presumably means it will continue to support instant resume. The increased amount of RAM on some models may also allow suspending more apps, which would be nice.

Also, you can totally use C/C++ for WP7 development. There are even some (few) third-party apps in the Marketplace which do so. You just have to either figure out the tricks yourself (homebrew developers did this almost immediately) or get Microsoft approval (OEM apps and the officially-sanctioned Adobe Reader app being examples where that permission was granted beforehand).

And.....

[Lumpy]

Still nobody will buy it.

Honestly, they just cant compete with iOS and Android. and with the latest release of android, Google just upped their game hard. Now all they need to do is tell handset makers that if they dont use the latest version they cant call it android or use any android branding to help flush off the craptastic 2.3.3 gingerbread phones that are still coming out.

Re:And.....

[21mhz]

Still nobody will buy it.

Millions already did, even with Windows Phone 7.5.

Honestly, they just cant compete with iOS and Android. and with the latest release of android, Google just upped their game hard.

Too bad its installed base is still below even that of latest Windows Phone.

Now all they need to do is tell handset makers that if they dont use the latest version they cant call it android or use any android branding to help flush off the craptastic 2.3.3 gingerbread phones that are still coming out.

Well, as they say here, good luck with that. It has been part of the deal for the vendors to be able to take Android and run with it, hasn't it?

Re:And.....

[Anonymous Coward]

No they havent. Please come back when you have reality numbers.

Re:And.....

[hazydave]

Millions already did, even with Windows Phone 7.5.

But just millions, about four million over two years. Like a couple of good days worth of sales for Android or iOS. That's a real problem, no matter how you spin it.

Re:And.....

[21mhz]

It's over 7 million Lumia phones alone. And why is this a problem, as long as the sales are growing?

Re:OP is missing the point

[Lumpy]

Right.... never used android or IOS have you.

I have a 4 year old iphone tat runs the latest OS.
I also have a 2 year old android phone that runs the latest android.

Tell us how the nokia is EXACTLY like the other phones again in how it cant be upgraded.

Re:Wave

[gutnor]

S3 gratis on contract

gratis on contract that's like unlimited data up to 500Mb, unlimited 1500 SMS, free call after connection fee, ... If you want to make price comparison, either compare the sim-free version or the total cost of contract. Otherwise, hey my bank offered my mobile phone for free with an extra 6GBP cashback. I just had to show my credit card at the shop and type the 4 digit number my bank sent me.

My continuing complaint with Windows phones

[rickb928]

"those Windows Phone 7 smartphones won't upgrade to Windows Phone 8 software, and nor will they run Windows Phone 8 apps"

My G1 can in fact run a very limited relase of Android Jelly Bean. The CyanogenMod guys keep doing this just because they can.

IOS 6 does run on a 3GS, albeit missing some features. Before that, I think the iPhone 3 is pretty much out of it, but that's what, 4 generations back? My G1 is at least 3 generations back...

But your Windows 7 phone, booting Windows 8? Nope. Not even for fun.

And this goes back past Windows Phone to the old CE releases.

Clearly Microsoft still doesn't get it. Or they want to continue to go forward, leaving the old behind.

Re:My continuing complaint with Windows phones

[mcrbids]

Clearly Microsoft still doesn't get it. Or they want to continue to go forward, leaving the old behind.

Ah ha hahha! Because most people hack their old phones with CM8 or something, right? How many people do you know that have Cyanogenmod running on their phones? Count 'em!

I'm a techie and having tried a few times, I can assert that it's totally not worth it for me. I've been using RedHat Linux as my desktop since Red Hat 5.1 (note, not RHEL 5.1, RedHat 5.1, kernel 2.0) and there's just no way I'd be interested in trying to hax0r my phone. Sure, I welcome CM guys to do it, and appreciate that somebody out there goes for it, but it's not for me.

My phone had better "just work" and the balance of drivers needed to get good service, good battery life, and good performance all together is not something easily accomplished by the hacking community.

As a comparison, my Dell laptop running a recent Fedora works great as a mobile workstation, but battery life is less than half what I get with Windows. On my lappie, I don't care so much, but my phone?

Forget it. People buy a new phone every couple years, and it's been a couple years since the WP7 phones were sold.

Re:My continuing complaint with Windows phones

[rickb928]

Of course, you're ignoring the three updates I got OTA. I went to CM after T-Mobile said no more.

And from what I see, the G1 was simple by comparison. My Sensation is going to be a pain to root, but the factory load is becoming too flaky to tolerate willingly.

Re:My continuing complaint with Windows phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Win8 is a much more advanced operating system, only fools thought they would be able to upgrade win7 to win8. Besides they are going to get all the cosmetic stuff, plus nokia maps, and pureview software. So it's not like they are just ignoring them. If ios was updated to an osx kernal i guarentee only the latest iphone could do it. Stop trying to hold them back dude, lets see what they can do.

Re:My continuing complaint with Windows phones

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not like Android does this very well either (see http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support)

galaxy S3 32GB is at least $150 here in Canada

[Chirs]

The 16GB is at least $100. Depending on the provider it can be more. Where I live, at least.

Re:Happy - iHappy

[knarf]

Samsung slavishly copied Apple

Always follow the party line, no matter what. "Die partei, die partie, die hat immer recht"

Possibly an eye-opener: if Samsung slavishly copied Apple, who did Apple copy? The differences between Apples first attempt at a mobile phone and earlier phones from more experienced manufacturers are not that big, all the way from the basic shape (rounded cornered rectangle, screen dominated front, speaker and microphone at logical positions) through the basic interface (a grid of icons) to more specific features (slide to unlock, context-sensitive actions on text, etc). Literally all of this had been done before. Nobody had made an iPhone before, and nobody - other than Apple - has made one ever since. The same can be said though for, eg, the HTC Prophet. HTC never claimed they owned the basic shape of this device, nor did they claim to own the basic interface (a grid of icons). LG did not claim they owned the concept of a rectangular, rounded cornered screen dominated slab with a capacitive touch screen. Which is logical - they did not invent the capacitive touch screen, nor did they invent the rectangle or the colour black. You did not see any HTC or LG (or any of the other manufacturers') users claiming these things either. Samsung never claimed to own these things, even though they had several products which predated Apple's first phone while encompassing many of its features.

Oddly enough Apple does make these claims, and many Apple users parrot them.

Please take some effort to answer this question: who did Apple copy? If your answer is 'nobody, they invented all of this themselves' then I'm afraid you'll have to do some more studying.

Apple made a popular phone, which sold by the millions even though the price was inflated. It still sells by the millions, and these sales have made Apple a stupendous amount of profit (both because of the obscene profit margin on these phones as well as the sheer number of phones they sold). In other words, they made a successful product. Where they went wrong was when they started claiming to be the sole proprietors of the basic concepts behind this phone.

Please use some common sense before you parrot their statements. Have a look at the television wall in some electronics store to see what I mean. Look at the washing machines, or the calculators, or just about any other product. Look around you and see - nobody is an island. No company creates something out of nothing. This includes Apple. They, like everyone else, look around them and base their products on what they've seen. The difference between Apple and most other companies is that they then turn around and claim never to have looked, that they came up with it all by themselves. This is wrong, and you know it is wrong.

Don't just blindly follow the party line.

Think Different.

Re:First impression? It sucks!

[shutdown -p now]

It's Windows 8, of course it sucks. It's even worse than Windows 7.

What does this have to do with Windows Phone? You realize it's a whole different OS, right?

And do you really want to run XP on your phone?

Not universally praised

[SuperKendall]

big plans for their Linux based highend OS, which was universally praised

Not by developers it wasn't.

It might have been fine compared to how people used to develop apps for Nokia Phones, but the MeeGo stuff was awfully limited looking at it from an Android or iPhone developer standpoint.

The truth is that MeeGo was a good update for pre-iPhone OS's, but could not cut it in the new world which was why Nokia was forced to partner with MS. They just did not have the resources to bring it up to scratch in time.

Re:Not universally praised

[Anonymous Coward]

One word you seem to have overlooked : QT

Re:Not universally praised

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit.

In what way was Maemo (or Meego) limited compared to iphone and android?

As far as I can see it was way more capable since it was a full fledged compatible Linux distribution, on which you could ALSO add a Dalvik VM if you wanted - in other words, you get both standard linux AND full android compatibility. How is that limited?

Do you also think all regular Linux distributions are limited compared to Windows and MacOS?

Nokia had a really nice OS going with Maemo, too bad they first messed it up with the Meego thing and then pretty much dropped it altogether. It still is easily the best UI so far on a mobile device.

Re:Not universally praised

[funky_vibes]

It was especially praised by developers.
Maemo still has more real apps than all other phones combined.

No, farting apps and advertisement don't qualify.

The usability however, was slightly lacking on n900, which isn't strange for a first edition dev-phone, although it's no worse than android or iphone. It's merely just as bad.

Re:Not universally praised

[alci63]

big plans for their Linux based highend OS, which was universally praised

Not by developers it wasn't.

It might have been fine compared to how people used to develop apps for Nokia Phones, but the MeeGo stuff was awfully limited looking at it from an Android or iPhone developer standpoint.

The truth is that MeeGo was a good update for pre-iPhone OS's, but could not cut it in the new world which was why Nokia was forced to partner with MS. They just did not have the resources to bring it up to scratch in time.

Well, Qt / QtCreator / QML is a pretty good platform to develop on. I'd be curious to know what part are "awfully limited" compared to say, Android ?

Re:Not universally praised

[SuperKendall]

Qt / QtCreator / QML is a pretty good platform to develop on

What about equivalents for:

CoreLocation
CoreData
CoreAnimation
MapKit

Or what about the equivalent of Android Intents?

In addition many networking and string libraries and so on on both platforms...

Just having a decent graphics library alone is not nearly enough.

Re:They're dead

[AwesomeMcgee]

Actually you're touching on the one really really strong point of WP here, the games. On my android tablet I tried for a long time to find games that were actually decent and found a minimal number, but for my windows phone while there are admittedly less games than android, the majority of them are really strong, well-made games. I think this is because the windows phone's support for the XNA framework. Admittedly the android landscape has probably changed since I was last trying to play games on it ~1.5 years ago considering the quality of hardware has spiked since then for android devices.

Re:Wave

[AwesomeMcgee]

You completely ignore the fact that many people would be past their 24 month period, moreover I believe you get discounted upgrades for contract resigning at 18 months to ensure people upgrade before tasting the sweet taste of contractlessness, so it's actually 1/(18-n) people based on the number of people past their 18 months.

Re:First impression? It sucks!

[Mike Buddha]

Now you can't even see what you have installed. You have to scroll, and scroll, and scroll to see what's there and even then it's not a complete list.

Yeah, burying everything in menus is the future. OS vendors have been prefecting the technology of hiding everything you want to see since 1984, and it's obvious that no other UI will ever work, ever.

Re:OP is missing the point

[Mike Buddha]

You have a 4 year old iPhone 3GS? Wow! You must be some kind of tech insider to have gotten that in 2008, more than a year before everyone else! Or else you're lying.

Nokia is back in the game!

[ninjacut]

Most of the key features touted surpass all other phones at this point, the camera, image stabilization, navigation, indoor maps, display, wireless charging, UI, NFC. Looks like I will jump ship from Samsung to Nokia in coming months.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[21mhz]

A dual core CPU and a huge battery are pretty great hardware specs.

Yeah...a year ago.

Also a mechanically stabilized sensor mechanism could be very big news

Only by checkbox marketers and the idiots impressed by gimmicks.

You managed to defeat your own point within the same comment, bravo.

Is it just me or are Android fans getting really angry over the Nokia news? It must feel like a perfect snub: design great looking, innovative hardware, make the software work glitch-free and easy to use — bypassing the One True Platform in favor of something that comes out of Redmond. Quick, we must flood the comment threads pointing out how quad-core CPUs, ridiculously high-res displays, and a zillion samey-looking apps make all the difference.

Pathetic, very pathetic

[AliasMarlowe]

Photos auto-sync via Skydrive.

If you actually want to use Windows Live.

Email is all cloud-based.

For tiny little miniscule values of all...

Many of us keep photos on our home servers (my /media/Photos tree has 310GB of files) . Many of us keep emails either on the home server, or accessed from POP/IMAP servers using an email client.

Re:Pathetic, very pathetic

[Baldrake]

Photos auto-sync via Skydrive.

If you actually want to use Windows Live.

Ok, you got me there. If you don't want to use Microsoft's services, you indeed don't get access to Microsoft's services.

Email is all cloud-based.

For tiny little miniscule values of all...

Many of us keep photos on our home servers (my /media/Photos tree has 310GB of files) . Many of us keep emails either on the home server, or accessed from POP/IMAP servers using an email client.

If you want to have a subset of the 310GB of photos on your phone, you dump that subset in your Skydrive or Dropbox or put it up on Facebook or Flickr. Re mail - Windows Phone does support pop and imap as well as EAS. If none of those work for you, I'm afraid I'm going to call you an edge case.

Re:Pathetic, very pathetic

[Spaseboy]

A Microsoft account is required to use a Windows Phone the same way a Google account is required to use a Google experience Android device and an Apple ID is required to use an iPhone... NEXT

Email is cloud based FOR EVERYONE FROM ITS INCEPTION. NEXT

You mean to tell me you have a home server running and you can't figure out how to put a photos web page on an intranet? N008

 

Re:Pathetic, very pathetic

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, you got me there. If you don't want to use Microsoft's services, you indeed don't get access to Microsoft's services.

You also don't get access to your own services. Such as your PC. Or any of thousands of different non-M$ devices and services. M$ does so hate competing in the free market.

Re:Pathetic, very pathetic

[hexagonc]

A Google account is not required to use a "Google Experience" phone. You won't be able to access the Android Market or your purchased apps but you could configure the phone to use Yahoo or Windows Live email if you want. You can also install your own software manually or from, say, Amazon's appstore. All "Google Experience" means is that Google designed the phone and it has stock Android with minimal carrier accoutrements.

Re:Happy - iHappy

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung slavishly copied Apple

Always follow the party line, no matter what. "Die partei, die partie, die hat immer recht"

Possibly an eye-opener: if Samsung slavishly copied Apple, who did Apple copy? The differences between Apples first attempt at a mobile phone and earlier phones from more experienced manufacturers are not that big, all the way from the basic shape (rounded cornered rectangle, screen dominated front, speaker and microphone at logical positions) through the basic interface (a grid of icons) to more specific features (slide to unlock, context-sensitive actions on text, etc). Literally all of this had been done before. Nobody had made an iPhone before, and nobody - other than Apple - has made one ever since. The same can be said though for, eg, the HTC Prophet. HTC never claimed they owned the basic shape of this device, nor did they claim to own the basic interface (a grid of icons). LG did not claim they owned the concept of a rectangular, rounded cornered screen dominated slab with a capacitive touch screen. Which is logical - they did not invent the capacitive touch screen, nor did they invent the rectangle or the colour black. You did not see any HTC or LG (or any of the other manufacturers') users claiming these things either. Samsung never claimed to own these things, even though they had several products which predated Apple's first phone while encompassing many of its features.

Oddly enough Apple does make these claims, and many Apple users parrot them.

Please take some effort to answer this question: who did Apple copy? If your answer is 'nobody, they invented all of this themselves' then I'm afraid you'll have to do some more studying.

Apple made a popular phone, which sold by the millions even though the price was inflated. It still sells by the millions, and these sales have made Apple a stupendous amount of profit (both because of the obscene profit margin on these phones as well as the sheer number of phones they sold). In other words, they made a successful product. Where they went wrong was when they started claiming to be the sole proprietors of the basic concepts behind this phone.

Please use some common sense before you parrot their statements. Have a look at the television wall in some electronics store to see what I mean. Look at the washing machines, or the calculators, or just about any other product. Look around you and see - nobody is an island. No company creates something out of nothing. This includes Apple. They, like everyone else, look around them and base their products on what they've seen. The difference between Apple and most other companies is that they then turn around and claim never to have looked, that they came up with it all by themselves. This is wrong, and you know it is wrong.

Don't just blindly follow the party line.

Think Different.

Well said !

Could do well at the low end

[Anonymous Coward]

If Nokia can price this at the $200-$300 price range, then this could actually sell quite well. If you like this phone, wait a few months. I expect to see it very heavily discounted, since given there is total lack of any software, and Windows RT has a very shaky future, amongst developers. I know, my company is not going to touch it, and none of my developer friends anywhere, know of any plans to support it, within their organisations.
Obviously, the lack of Android or iOS, dooms this to be a low end device. The hardware is un-exceptional, the screen looks to be mid-range at best, and Nokia's previously poor customer support, and discontinuation of support for previous phones, make it a very risky proposition.

YES!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

And we should use them to take out the dregs of society..
Like you know, Politicians, Bankers, Lawyers, hmm.. and probably Priests as well.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Anonymous Coward]

You managed to defeat your own point within the same comment, bravo.

Put down the crack pipe and read the post again.

Is it just me or are Android fans getting really angry over the Nokia news?

Is it just me or are you Nokia people all turning into conspiracy nuts thinking there's an Android fan around every corner ready to rain on your little parade?

It must feel like a perfect snub: design great looking, innovative hardware, make the software work glitch-free and easy to use

All debatable and easily found on every platform.

How about this, Mr. Windows Phone guy. Before talking shit how about SHIPPING SOME GODDAMNED PHONES. Then you can crow all day long. RIght now you sitting at under 5 percent and sinking. SHIP fucker. Then you will have something to say. Until then it's just pathetic posturing.

Re:First impression? It sucks!

[Anonymous Coward]

What does this have to do with Windows Phone? You realize it's a whole different OS, right?

No, it isn't. Windows Phone 8 use exactly the same NT operating system as does Windows 7 and Windows 8 (and Vista, XP, 2000, NT 4 etc before it).

That is the thing, Microsoft use same operating system now, but different GUI's.

ps. Windows Phone 7.x uses CE operating system, if you wonder.

Re:First impression? It sucks!

[shutdown -p now]

No, it isn't. Windows Phone 8 use exactly the same NT operating system as does Windows 7 and Windows 8 (and Vista, XP, 2000, NT 4 etc before it).

It uses the same kernel. It doesn't mean that it's the same OS. The userland is different.

And, of course, it still doesn't make the original post to which I've replied make any more sense, given that it was complaining about the UI changes between desktop Win7 and Win8 (and XP for goot measure), like the Start menu. Certainly something very important on a smartphone, I understand.

It is exactly the same as saying that Android sucks because of Gnome Shell and Unity making things so much worse.

Re:

[andrew2325]

I think that sometimes it's better to outsource software projects, but the biggest problem is.... the same old sob story. I bought this phone six months ago, and I can't afford to pay $500 for an upgrade this month or any time in the next six months. So, I'll have to make do with insecure software because the company that develops the software abandoned it. That's why I've supported open source software projects for the past fourteen years with donations, purchases, and even putting up with buggy software only to send in information about the glitches. That required dedication and at times sacrifice in a way. True, I always tried to make sure my hardware was supported before upgrading it, but you know the way the wheels turn. This could be a huge amount of negative PR for Nokia and Microsoft, especially if there are a good number of people who have a Lumia 900 who never upgrade and Nokia never helps in the effort to port Debian Linux or something similar to it. I'm a stock holder too. This is really bad news. I'd written them a letter a while back. Maybe they will actually read it and take a hint. I always heard that if you own stock they might actually listen to you, so maybe if enough people like me buy stock while it's dirt cheap, they will change their minds.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[21mhz]

Put down the crack pipe and read the post again.

Done: that AC derides Lumia 920's specs as "last year", apparently meaning quad-core CPUs and other useless overdrive, and then goes on a tirade about idiots impressed by gimmicks.

It must feel like a perfect snub: design great looking, innovative hardware, make the software work glitch-free and easy to use

All debatable and easily found on every platform.

Heh. We both know how hard are all these qualities to come by with the Android devices that are on the market, especially if you want all of them together.

How about this, Mr. Windows Phone guy. Before talking shit how about SHIPPING SOME GODDAMNED PHONES. Then you can crow all day long. RIght now you sitting at under 5 percent and sinking. SHIP fucker. Then you will have something to say. Until then it's just pathetic posturing.

Boy aren't you a handsome example of the rabid fanbois that keep me amused every time I read comments about non-Android smartphones. I bet next year the tune will change to "your under 10 percent and sinking, show me some real SHIPPING". Meanwhile the indifferent world will roll by, and people will keep offending you by buying what looks better for them.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Anonymous Coward]

Done: that AC derides Lumia 920's specs as "last year", apparently meaning quad-core CPUs and other useless overdrive, and then goes on a tirade about idiots impressed by gimmicks.

You stupidass. Processor speed and ability to run multiple threads efficiently directly effects practically everything you do with your phone. It is the very opposite of a gimmick. I am SERIOUS. DROP THE DAMN PIPE!

It must feel like a perfect snub: design great looking, innovative hardware, make the software work glitch-free and easy to use

Heh. We both know how hard are all these qualities to come by with the Android devices that are on the market, especially if you want all of them together.

It was easy for me. I ordered the Galaxy Nexus with Jellybean and presto-whamo I had exactly what you describe. Curved glass, NFC, attractive subtle appearance, butter smoothness and not a single glitch or crash. The phone is available on every carrier and is one of the cheapest high-end phones available at $350 direct from Google.

Boy aren't you a handsome example of the rabid fanbois that keep me amused every time I read comments about non-Android smartphones. I bet next year the tune will change to "your under 10 percent and sinking, show me some real SHIPPING". Meanwhile the indifferent world will roll by, and people will keep offending you by buying what looks better for them.

Your rhetoric is boring and predictable, your posturing is pathetic, and your phone is unsellable shit. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[21mhz]

You stupidass. Processor speed and ability to run multiple threads efficiently directly effects practically everything you do with your phone.

Do you have measurements to prove that?.. Thought so. Even my 3 year old dual-core Linux desktop has both cores sleeping most of the time. Just admit it: you were fed marketing bullshit.

It was easy for me. I ordered the Galaxy Nexus with Jellybean and presto-whamo I had exactly what you describe. Curved glass, NFC, attractive subtle appearance, butter smoothness and not a single glitch or crash. The phone is available on every carrier and is one of the cheapest high-end phones available at $350 direct from Google.

Hmm, let's see: only a 1.2 GHz dual-core CPU, display resolution worse than Lumia's and a cheap-ass PenTile at that... Did someone say "year old hardware" up in the thread? :-D

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Darby]

You managed to defeat your own point within the same comment, bravo.

Would you care to explain exactly how you think that occurred? You put out old specs as a great new thing and he pointed out the fact that those are old specs. You then touted a *different* tech which he rightly or wrongly downplayed. Those are completely different things. I believe the term for your cheesy rhetorical technique is "equivocation".

It must feel like a perfect snub: design great looking, innovative hardware, make the software work glitch-free and easy to use

"Innovative"? Right there, you make yourself sound like a MS shill. That's the word they redefined and use all the time. As you tried to equivocate around, you know that it's not even new, let alone innovative.
We're talking beta software. It's almost at a release, but it is Microsoft. Alpha quality as initial release is what they're known for, but I'm feeling generous. "Glitch-free" you say when it hasn't even hit the market. This is exactly the nonsensical marketroid speak that is being mocked as it becomes so prevalent.

Quick, we must flood the comment threads pointing out how quad-core CPUs, ridiculously high-res displays, and a zillion samey-looking apps make all the difference.

Yet, that's exactly what you did.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have measurements to prove that?..

Open up Chromium on that Linux box and lock the affinity to one core. Now go down slashdot middle-click opening every set of comments and see how much the box starts to lag. Now reboot and do the same test again while using both cores and note the difference. The fact that you even made this lame attempt at trolling saddens us all.

Hmm, let's see: only a 1.2 GHz dual-core CPU, display resolution worse than Lumia's and a cheap-ass PenTile at that... Did someone say "year old hardware" up in the thread? :-D

You asked me to satisfy your requirements and I did. Now you are trying to distract me by moving the goalposts. Troll harder. Please. BTW, the display is gorgeous and only the most persnickety of pimple-faced aspy's tell a real difference in day to day use.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[21mhz]

Open up Chromium on that Linux box and lock the affinity to one core. Now go down slashdot middle-click opening every set of comments and see how much the box starts to lag. Now reboot and do the same test again while using both cores and note the difference. The fact that you even made this lame attempt at trolling saddens us all.

I thought it was going to be something like that... Sorry, I have better uses for my CPU cycles than abusing Slashdot's poorly scalable attempt to keep up with Web 2.0 (I'm browsing it now with the mostly single-threaded Firefox, to not much trouble). The thought of browsing Slashdot comments on a phone is downright revolting. Please find something that, you know, people out there with a life would do.

You asked me to satisfy your requirements and I did. Now you are trying to distract me by moving the goalposts. Troll harder. Please. BTW, the display is gorgeous and only the most persnickety of pimple-faced aspy's tell a real difference in day to day use.

Thanks for your stern answer to the AC up in the thread who seemed to find an issue with the level of hardware specs found in Lumia 920 :-)

Apparently correlation == causation

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened? LG made a few Windows Mobile devices but with WinMo uncompetitive, they abandoned the platform and moved to Android losing years of market presence and all their profits.

WinMo was uncompetitive after iOS and Android changed the smartphone market direction, why did LG choose WinMo instead of Android? They didn't have to, they chose to because they thought it was better, they were wrong and even Microsoft abandoned it when they saw the change in the smartphone market direction.

What happened? Motorola launched a series of Windows Mobile phones culminating in the Motorola Q "Blackberry killer". As Motorola hit the rocks in profitability new management reached for the Android liferaft. The company now relies exclusively on the Droid franchise.

Around this time Motorola also poorly executed on a partnership with Apple for the Motorola ROKR, another Motorola failure, these days they are doing much better.

What happened? Palm shipped a few Windows Mobile, famously dismissing Appleâ(TM)s potential entry as something "PC guys" could never achieve.

So your point is that Palm were idiots, well they failed hard with webOS so maybe you're right.

What happened? Nortel declared bankruptcy two years later.

So correlation doesn't equal causation except when Microsoft is involved?

The deal would ensure Bing distribution to all of Verizonâ(TM)s smartphone customers.

What happened? Bing did ship on some devices but in October 2009 Droid came to Verizon.

Yes, Verizon bailed on Bing in favor of Google, what's your point?

Your whole post just reads like an anti-MS shill post with a desperate attempt to correlate the failure of companies with partnerships with Microsoft, however the fact is they failed on their own and there are more companies that have succeeded out of partnerships with Microsoft. You copy & paste this shill rubbish in every Windows Phone story (and maybe you should fix the unicode in your source document to make it more readable), are you trying to make a point?

If someone posted a similar story highlighting all the companies that partnered/used failed Google services it would be downmodded as troll but because it's Microsoft this gets modded up.

Re:Apparently correlation == causation

[VortexCortex]

If someone posted a similar story highlighting all the companies that partnered/used failed Google services it would be downmodded as troll but because it's Microsoft this gets modded up.

So your point is that correlation == causation?

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a bit disappointed that we loose the smaller screen model - the 820 doesn't really replace the 800, it's more of a slightly smaller variation on the 920 - which is a pity. I personally prefer to hold a smaller screen closer to my face... However, for the feature set that WP8 brings (NFC, more home/lock screen flexibility, better camera tech), I might just have to go larger.

Perhaps you need to visit an optometrist and get glasses?

Elop...

[humanrev]

For some reason whenever I see the name "Stephen Elop" my brain subconsciously sees the word "Flop" instead. Maybe it's trying to tell me something...

Re:Elop...

[Anonymous Coward]

What flop? He is brilliant! He has torpedoed Nokia's share price and market share in less than two years. It's all part of the greater plan for Lord Ballmer to swoop in for a takeover.

This plan is obvious to all except the obtuse Finnish folks at Nokia.

Pig with a lipstick

[Anonymous Coward]

Those four words are enough to describe new phones from Nokia. With the windows from Micrsoft nothing more can be added but, don't fall in that trap.

Re:Wave

[Anonymous Coward]

And pay $30 extra in their monthly phone bill fo the next 24 months

Re:Wave

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing. It just follows that american consumers either have too much money or are incredibly stupid.

Moving apps to Lumina

[leighklotz]

You can get help migrating your apps to the Lumina using a program from Mark/Space that helps you move your data as well.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/31/mark-space-welcome-home-eases-us-into-new-nokia-lumias/

Disclaimer: I work for Quixey, a company not mentioned in the Engadget article, but which provides part of the back-end service.

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[hazydave]

I thought it was very "last year", too, initially. But they are using the Qualcomm Snapdragon S4, which is based on Qualcomm's Krait processor, not the ARM A9 or the yet even slower Qualcomm Scorpion core. I think a dual core Krait, while not a match for a four core A9, is still very much a 2012-vintage processor. Display and camera are also fairly contemporary, if nothing unusual.

In fact, only real flaw I see is the locked-down Windows 8 Phone software....

Re:How about some enthusiasm from a sub 100k ID th

[hazydave]

There's no "cheap pen-tile" when you're talking about a 720p screen that's 4.5" wide. Once the pixels are too small to be seen anyway, there's little wrong with the pentile arrangement. For an OLED display, it keeps the display 20% lower power and 20% cooler, which has traditionally been a problem with OLED -- overheating shortens display life.

Of course, Nokia's OLED phones are RGB, like Samsung's old Galaxy SII, which isn't much of a problem when you have a gigantic screen and low resolution. The 920's screen went back to LED, because Nokia doesn't have access to higher density OLED technology at present. They have a few tweaks to the tech (dubbed PureView... apparently, all new Nokia technologies will be dubbed Pure-Motion). They claim traditional high density IPS LCDs (I'm sure they mean Apple) are too slow for video (not even slightly a factor on any OLED screen -- the LEDs switch in nanoseconds), so they're using a high voltage spike (and, of course, more power) to deliver a claimed 7ms response (fast enough for video, yes) versus a claimed 28ms response for an unnamed "typical" display. They also have higher output LED backlights, which they claim will make their device more readable than the unnamed "typical" display (as are all OLEDs) in bright sunlight. No comment given on what all this does to battery life, particularly since the display, LCD or OLED, is generally the place all your power goes on a smartphone.

They're also claiming the touchscreen can be operated with fingernails or even gloves. To me, that's pretty interesting... I have thick guitar-generated calluses on my left hand, which the Galaxy Nexus pretty much ignores. So I can only touch-screen with my right hand. Not a biggie, but something I'd look for (in Android, of course) if it was actually available. And that's the one reason I'll track down a 920 at some point and play with it... like to see if that's real or not.

They put out a whitepaper on this stuff... kind of a marketing thing, but with a little meat here and there: http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/1824216/data/2/-/PuremotionHD.pdf
Anyway, Nokia was nice enough to put out a whitepaper on this stuff. Pretty much marketing-oriented, but it does dig in a bit.

Re:They're dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Rovio already said they're not going to make Angry Birds for this platform.

Because they've already done it for WP7 and since WP7 apps run on WP8 there is no reason to rebuild it for WP8...duh.

Others are following suite.

If you mean they aren't rebuilding their WP7 apps for WP8 because they can just run the WP7 version on WP8 then yes, that's correct.

Enthusiast

[businessone.in]

With the new windows 8 Nokia smart phone should look good, the kind of operating systems nokia developed was a stepping stone for the future! Still the basic nokia 1100 is unbeaten for its strength but it sure does lack features! Looking forward for the new windows 8 and am sure nokia will come up with something as its a huge investment on windows phone 7. http://businessone.in/

If you tie hardware and OS together

[goldcd]

then you really have to come up with something special on the hardware front.
I'm no fan of Apple, but thank god they forced every other manufacturer to start putting Hi-res screens in their devices.
I think this Nokia phone serves two purposes as well - firstly it's the 'physical home of WM8', secondly it creates a benchmark that other phones are judged against.
Good example of what happens if you don't do this is Android. I've had a variety of decent phones and love it to bits, then was a bit confused when people complained, then picked up a cheap no-name tablet and knew exactly what they meant. It was VILE.
My guess as to the purpose of the Nexus 7 is to provide a benchmark - If you as a no-name Chinese manufacturer can't make either something significantly cheaper, or significantly better, your product will die in the water. Therefore crappy Android systems should now be leaving us.
Likewise with this Nokia WM8 phone - It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be the only phone - however every WM8 phone that is released will be compared to this.