That's the part thats hard and expensive to do well. You
could theoretically do so on your own computer using one of those
prosumer usb interfaces. If you want to do real drums you need an acoustically treated room
and decent mics to make even a basic go of it.
That also assumes you have a vague clue about recording, producing and mastering.
Admittedly David Gray managed to record most
of White Ladder in his house but he said it severly limited the style of songs he could do and
affected the sound of the album.
"We hardly had any equipment, (so) we had to kind of keep it within a certain sphere," he says. "We couldn't get too loud or too big because we just didn't have the stuff. Basically we kept it quite simple and quite mellow."
It costs almost nothing to copy songs, but the first copy costs thousands
to do properly. We still need record companies because most musicians aren't prepared
to re-mortgage their house to pay for the recording and promotion costs.
Drug companies are unethical pond scum, however.......
the funding for the research just comes from a source other than exorbitant profits on selling the product
What is this mythical source of millions and millions of dollars that will fund drug research? The reason you need patents on medicines for the first part of the drugs life is so the R & D can be recouped. Otherwise the following would happen. Company A spends $90 million developing a new drug for foo-itis and getting it through safety tests. It costs $1 to make a dose. In order to recoup the costs the drug is sold at $20 a dose.
Company B in India analyses the drug, reverse engineers it and makes it for £1 a dose and sells it for £3 a does as they have no R & D costs to recoup. Company A is fucked and goes out of business.
Absolutely no incentive to develop new drugs in your world.
Wow how can I possibly contend against such an eloquent refuting of all my points.
The clout of so many of the best programmers in the world actually liking that what they're creating is their own property instead of that of their bosses is unstoppable. It seems to me it's only those software people that are insecure about their capacities are somehow opposed to the GPL.
The supposed 'best programmers in the world' won't be able to spend as much, if any time on writing open source stuff cause they'll be no money in it if the big boys fuck off and start using solaris/ A n other comercial unix. What you don't seem to get it is it was a big struggle to get companies with serious money to use linux and creating uncertainty and potential issues with intellectual property for these companies is likely to drive them straight to Redmond.
The UK Labour party once produced a manifesto so unpopular it was known as the longest suicide note in history. I can't help feeling that GPL v3 is heading the same way.
If I was microsoft and was looking for a way to consign linux back to being a hobbyist toy this is exactly what I'd do. The only reason that linux has made the advances that it has in the last 5 years is because the corporates have become seriously interested in it and there is suddenly money in open source software. For years the claims that the GPL is viral has been dismissed as fud but now the same people are claiming that because Microsoft didn't put an expiry date on the Novel vouchers they will have to be bound by the terms of a license not written yet and have to give up patents?
If that doesn't have the corporates running for the hills I don't know what will. People will look at tivo being fucked because of the license terms being changed and will think twice about investing serious money because of potential nastys in future version of the GPL.
Linux needs the big companies using it to keep money in the system otherwise the much vaunted give the software away for free, sell services model is fucked.
The current situation in the UK, which is the original topic, is something like this[1]. At age 16, you pick (typically) 5 subjects and study them for a year. At the end, you receive an AS qualification in each of them, with a grade from A to F (I think). You then pick (typically) three of them, and continue them for another year, and receive A2 grades in these. Both the AS and A2 exams are set by examining boards not connected to the school, and open to anyone who pays the (small) fee.
I'm not using the standard "they have enough of my money" argument. I'm pointing out the fact that I have no problem spending money on entertainment.
You appeared to be using the standard 'sticking it to the man argument' that by pirating the music you are hurting the record companies and not the artist. If that wasn't what you were saying I appologise, however after I pointed out you had completely made up the figures for what artists get for sales you reponded by going off on a totally irrelevant rant about buying second hand cd's.
Moreover, if I have a DVD and it gets ruined for whatever reason (same goes for music CD or game), would you still consider it stealing for me to download it? I don't care if it is against the law or not, what is your PERSONAL opinion? Do you PERSONALLY consider it stealing for me to download something I have already bought?
Stealing is a wonderfully emotive word that I would to like avoid because I don't think I could face yet another rehash of the bloody it's not theft its copyright infringment boring flamewar we get every time this subject is brought up.
Do I think downloading in another form something you have already paid for is wrong. Nope, but thats not what was being discussed.
Do I think that you should pay for the music you enjoy. Yes
If you don't like the record company the artist has dealt with then do without the music.
I'm curious where you get your information from. Particularly the 30 cents figure.
The signed artists I have spoken to about this ( at length )
get 50% of the profits from their albums. I work as a sound engineer so
probably have more opertunity to speak to artists with record deals than most
people.
Your assertion that piracy somehow helps them negotiate a better contract by
increasing their fanbase doesn't really make sense to me. If everyone is downloading the
records and not buying them it appears to the record company that they don't have much of
a fan base and aren't worth keeping.
In all your argument just sounds like a wonderful justification for being cheap.
... because AllofMP3 does what Napster and Rhapsody and iTunes cannot: offer a comprehensive music catalog at reasonable rates
And the reason they can offer such 'reasonable' rates is that they are not paying the copyright holder for the rights. I fail to see how giving money to the Russian Maffia is sticking it to the man or Corporate disobedience. You seem to be very proud that you paid money for pirated music that you could have got from filesharing networks for free with the exact same legality.
I have seen statements where people from mysql have said that the pluggable storage engines for mysql ( e.g. MyISam , InnoDB) are a big advantage. I have found the differing storage engines to be troublesome in real world use as you have to take into account the table type to know what features you can rely on. For example
no referential integrity/ transactions in MyISam
no full text searching in InnoDB
Differing backup and restore procedures for the different engines.
Are there any plans to upgrade one of storage engines to have a full feature set so that you could use that by default then use one of the others if you require a limited feature set but high performance?
1) Like what? I've seen no difference between Linux and Windows. I've had Windows fall over because I've changed the graphics card and not start up.
So you swapped graphics cards without uninstalling the drivers and were suprised when windows failed to boot ?
Support for graphics cards is poor in linux.
Difficult to install drivers, harder to configure, not very stable, poor performance. Absolute pain in the arse if you want to use multiple monitors, tv out or 3d accelleration seriously. This particularly sucks if you own an ati card. While this is due to the hardware manufacturers is still doesn't change the fact it really sucks.
Support for WIFI and firewire is very hit and miss. You're lucky if you manage to buy a chipset thats supported.
Installing software needs to be simplified as well. There is no common way to install things on linux. The install instructions for debian are often useless to you if you use redhat. Configuration and binarys are stored in fairly arbitrary different locations depending on the distro as well. Linux could use an equivilent to the moron proof windows MSI installer or the mac drag and drop method.
I would like linux to be as good as osx or windows, pretending that there is no problem with hardware support or package management is not going to lead to improvement.
Fair point, but how would you describe generalising the behavior of a large group of people based on their colour/appearance ? Which is what I percieve the GP to be doing.
Could I also add Timothy McVeigh,Eric Rudolph and the Unibommer to a list of non black/asian/muslem/etc terrorists.
I'm not trying to be racist here. You may feel my comments are but its all completely true.
As a white male from the UK who is about to fly in 2 weeks why should I have to be subjected to these stupuid checks as we all know who the real people who do this are.
1. Because one of this weeks attempted bombers was a white male from the UK who converted to Islam.
2. White Irish Catholic bombers have been blowing the shite out of the UK mainland for years and have only recently stopped with the (fragile) peace agreements, are you really really sure some rogue IRA unit won't try an Omah ?
the exploit as I have seen it described required a deliberately malformed image as input. You would have to have a web application capable of loading arbitrary images via HTTP and doing some operation on them {perhaps overlaying a caption or copyright message, or drawing on comedy genitals}
How about a content management system that creates thumbnails or automatically resizes images, e.g. ebay image galleries or myspace ?
In which case, taking it offline for an hour or so whilst patching and recompiling whilst patching and recompiling libpng might be a small price to pay
It is a big deal to take a production server down for an hour and it could cost major money to do so.
Yes it is. There are times when access to the source code is essential. The rarity of such occasions does not diminish the usefulness of the source code if and when they arise: you have a sample size of one if the situation does arise, or nil if it doesn't, and either way that is way too few data points to be statistically significant.
This doesn't actually counter my point. You stated that there are occasions on which it is useful or even vital to be able to have the source code for software. Completely agree. This doesn't contradict the point I was trying to make that having the source available to everyone doesn't necessarily increase the amount of bugs found given the limited number of people actually have the time and expertise to look through the code.?
You seem to be forgetting that this comunity [sic] contains many people who do read source code.
Of this 'many' what proportion actually could understand something complex and specialist such as the kernel or the image processing internals of the gimp for example ?
Out of interest what software did you read the source for and have you ever actually found any flaws
lib png will indeed be on many servers which do image processing as part of serving web pages. I think, but i could be wrong, that both the gd image library thats part of php and image magick use libpng for handling png files.
On production machines you can't just delete or disable the library and go oh well we can't serve the images that make up a large part of the site. thats too bad.
Everyone has access to the source code for Linux and BSD, so there are more people in a position to spot problems there
While it is true more people have the opertunity to go through the source and check for problems, how many actually do? Did you read throught the source for any of the open source software you installed ? I certainly don't have the time and in many cases enough knowledge of the language and problem to properly review the code.
I never been that convinced by the Cathedral vs the Bazaar argument. Given fewer people use linux and of those users even less will have enough knowledge, time and expertise to bug hunt in any meaningful way is having the source open that much of an advantage?
I think the real advantage is the comunity around the OSS movement as I was having a problem with firewire under linux and was able to get in contact with one of the authors of the drivers who helped fix the problem.
In the uk they have a series of distance lines painted on the road and the camera takes two photos when triggered. They can then use the distance your car travelled in the time interval between the photos to double check your speed if there is a dispute.
From the website This fully functional trial software will automatically expire after six months. You can obtain the fully licensed version at any time.
You can also get a version of SQL server called express which is feature limited but doesn't expire, for development work.
I haven't seen office 12 and if there are massive changes to the GUI then they would be better not upgrading or if they need a newer version, go with open office as you suggest. However its a bit harsh using a non released version of the ms office software to try and argue that switching is currently a good thing.
In addition the 'killer' product not only has to be as good as what it is replacing it has to be way better to justify relearning how to do basic tasks. While moving between star, open or microsoft office is trivial for technical people, the average user has major problems with the gui being slighting different and commands being in different menus.
The other big problem is that many companies have invested a huge amount of money in VB Script automation. The cost of the license for something like MS office is trivial compared to the amount spent on custom development . Unless the open source offerings can provide some sort of compatibility layer for macros and such like corporate migration is really unlikely.
So while having good open source alternatives to MS office is a good thing there is slim to no chance of them ever replacing Microsoft word as the defacto word processor.
My univeristy used them during lectures as part of a research project. It allowed the lecturer to do real time polls as part of his powerpoint presentation to judge
if people understood the material. There was a window that popped up and showed the id
of every one who voted as well as the current total of voters. They ended up limiting the number of times you could vote because people were repeatedly voting and spamming the system to see how many times they could get their id on the screen.
You can vote 1-9 and rate your vote as neutral, high confidence or low confidence.
I'm not sure how expensive they are though.
The neurons die from lack of oxygen. CPR puts oxygen in the body( 2 breaths ) and circulates it( 15 compressions ). By sedimentation I assume you mean clotting. This is caused by the vessel walls failing to produce anti-coagulants due to the bodies metabolism shutting down.
Draining the blood wouldn't help much as your neurons would still die due to lack of oxygen.
I don`t think a lot of musicians make that much money of recordings, some will even lose money by releasing a recording
If you release the music for free then surely you lose more money. It still costs a lot of money to make a quality recording.
Also what is your basis for the assertion that most artists make their money perfoming live. This point of view is popular on slashdot but I have never seen anyone back it up evidence.
It is really expensive to put on a live performance and unless you are u2 who can charge £50 per ticket you will be hard pressed to make any money. If you are talking about touring on any level you need to find money up front to pay for things like venue hire, equipement hire, insurance etc. If you dont have money from album and merch sales where will this money come from?
There are a lot of suggestions for 'new business models' but most of them seem to involve the artist losing money when you examine them closely.
I have a kenwood car cd player which can read the CD text of cd's. This gives you the album title artist which scrolls across the display. It can also play mp3's wma as well. So not a complete halt in advancement. Also if you have ever used the more high end stuff such as a pioneer cdj range which reads in and buffers a whole track.It also display graphs of the track amplitude so you know where the quiet bits of the song are. There have been new advances it just doesn't seem to filter down to the consumer range stuff.
I agree though that the ui for most current hi-fi products is really lacking and stuck in the 90's.
Slashdot Mirror
posting to undo mis mod
(nothing to see, move along)
You missed a step. Step 1 record the album.
That's the part thats hard and expensive to do well. You could theoretically do so on your own computer using one of those prosumer usb interfaces. If you want to do real drums you need an acoustically treated room and decent mics to make even a basic go of it.
That also assumes you have a vague clue about recording, producing and mastering.
Admittedly David Gray managed to record most of White Ladder in his house but he said it severly limited the style of songs he could do and affected the sound of the album.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/28/
It costs almost nothing to copy songs, but the first copy costs thousands to do properly. We still need record companies because most musicians aren't prepared to re-mortgage their house to pay for the recording and promotion costs.
What is this mythical source of millions and millions of dollars that will fund drug research? The reason you need patents on medicines for the first part of the drugs life is so the R & D can be recouped. Otherwise the following would happen. Company A spends $90 million developing a new drug for foo-itis and getting it through safety tests. It costs $1 to make a dose. In order to recoup the costs the drug is sold at $20 a dose.
Company B in India analyses the drug, reverse engineers it and makes it for £1 a dose and sells it for £3 a does as they have no R & D costs to recoup. Company A is fucked and goes out of business.
Absolutely no incentive to develop new drugs in your world.
Wow how can I possibly contend against such an eloquent refuting of all my points.
The supposed 'best programmers in the world' won't be able to spend as much, if any time on writing open source stuff cause they'll be no money in it if the big boys fuck off and start using solaris/ A n other comercial unix. What you don't seem to get it is it was a big struggle to get companies with serious money to use linux and creating uncertainty and potential issues with intellectual property for these companies is likely to drive them straight to Redmond.
The UK Labour party once produced a manifesto so unpopular it was known as the longest suicide note in history. I can't help feeling that GPL v3 is heading the same way.
If I was microsoft and was looking for a way to consign linux back to being a hobbyist toy this is exactly what I'd do. The only reason that linux has made the advances that it has in the last 5 years is because the corporates have become seriously interested in it and there is suddenly money in open source software. For years the claims that the GPL is viral has been dismissed as fud but now the same people are claiming that because Microsoft didn't put an expiry date on the Novel vouchers they will have to be bound by the terms of a license not written yet and have to give up patents?
If that doesn't have the corporates running for the hills I don't know what will. People will look at tivo being fucked because of the license terms being changed and will think twice about investing serious money because of potential nastys in future version of the GPL.
Linux needs the big companies using it to keep money in the system otherwise the much vaunted give the software away for free, sell services model is fucked.
If I may correct your post slightly the current situation in England is similar to what you describe. Scotland has its own seperate and distinct education system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_education_s
England != UK
This was a public health message for anyone planing to visit Scotland.
You appeared to be using the standard 'sticking it to the man argument' that by pirating the music
you are hurting the record companies and not the artist. If that wasn't what you were saying I appologise, however after I pointed out you had completely made up the figures for what artists get for sales you reponded by going off on a totally irrelevant rant about buying second hand cd's.
Stealing is a wonderfully emotive word that I would to like avoid because I don't think I could face yet another rehash of the bloody it's not theft its copyright infringment boring flamewar we get every time this subject is brought up.
Do I think downloading in another form something you have already paid for is wrong. Nope, but thats not what was being discussed.
Do I think that you should pay for the music you enjoy. Yes
If you don't like the record company the artist has dealt with then do without the music.
I'm curious where you get your information from. Particularly the 30 cents figure.
The signed artists I have spoken to about this ( at length ) get 50% of the profits from their albums. I work as a sound engineer so probably have more opertunity to speak to artists with record deals than most people.
Your assertion that piracy somehow helps them negotiate a better contract by increasing their fanbase doesn't really make sense to me. If everyone is downloading the records and not buying them it appears to the record company that they don't have much of a fan base and aren't worth keeping.
In all your argument just sounds like a wonderful justification for being cheap.
I have seen statements where people from mysql have said that the pluggable storage engines for mysql ( e.g. MyISam , InnoDB) are a big advantage. I have found the differing storage engines to be troublesome in real world use as you have to take into account the table type to know what features you can rely on. For example
no referential integrity/ transactions in MyISam
no full text searching in InnoDB
Differing backup and restore procedures for the different engines.
Are there any plans to upgrade one of storage engines to have a full feature set so that you could use that by default then use one of the others if you require a limited feature set but high performance?
One of those independantly confirmed kills was an Tornado which the system couldn't differentiate from a scud missile
e ws/2003/04/04/wjet04.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/04/i xnewstop.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2877349.stm
Another was an F18 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/n
Great defensive system the patriot.
So you swapped graphics cards without uninstalling the drivers and were suprised when windows failed to boot ?
Support for graphics cards is poor in linux.
Difficult to install drivers, harder to configure, not very stable, poor performance. Absolute pain in the arse if you want to use multiple monitors, tv out or 3d accelleration seriously. This particularly sucks if you own an ati card. While this is due to the hardware manufacturers is still doesn't change the fact it really sucks.
Support for WIFI and firewire is very hit and miss. You're lucky if you manage to buy a chipset thats supported.
Installing software needs to be simplified as well. There is no common way to install things on linux. The install instructions for debian are often useless to you if you use redhat. Configuration and binarys are stored in fairly arbitrary different locations depending on the distro as well. Linux could use an equivilent to the moron proof windows MSI installer or the mac drag and drop method.
I would like linux to be as good as osx or windows, pretending that there is no problem with hardware support or package management is not going to lead to improvement.
For all we know youtube could be making lots of money, not that likely admittedly but no one other than the u-tube people know.
Fair point, but how would you describe generalising the behavior of a large group of people based on their colour /appearance ? Which is what I percieve the GP to be doing.
Could I also add Timothy McVeigh,Eric Rudolph and the Unibommer to a list of non black/asian/muslem/etc terrorists.
1. Because one of this weeks attempted bombers was a white male from the UK who converted to Islam.
2. White Irish Catholic bombers have been blowing the shite out of the UK mainland for years and have only recently stopped with the (fragile) peace agreements, are you really really sure some rogue IRA unit won't try an Omah ?
Still not racist ?
the exploit as I have seen it described required a deliberately malformed image as input. You would have to have a web application capable of loading arbitrary images via HTTP and doing some operation on them {perhaps overlaying a caption or copyright message, or drawing on comedy genitals}
How about a content management system that creates thumbnails or automatically resizes images, e.g. ebay image galleries or myspace ?
In which case, taking it offline for an hour or so whilst patching and recompiling whilst patching and recompiling libpng might be a small price to pay
It is a big deal to take a production server down for an hour and it could cost major money to do so.
Yes it is. There are times when access to the source code is essential. The rarity of such occasions does not diminish the usefulness of the source code if and when they arise: you have a sample size of one if the situation does arise, or nil if it doesn't, and either way that is way too few data points to be statistically significant.
This doesn't actually counter my point. You stated that there are occasions on which it is useful or even vital to be able to have the source code for software. Completely agree. This doesn't contradict the point I was trying to make that having the source available to everyone doesn't necessarily increase the amount of bugs found given the limited number of people actually have the time and expertise to look through the code.?
You seem to be forgetting that this comunity [sic] contains many people who do read source code.
Of this 'many' what proportion actually could understand something complex and specialist such as the kernel or the image processing internals of the gimp for example ?
Out of interest what software did you read the source for and have you ever actually found any flaws
lib png will indeed be on many servers which do image processing as part of serving web pages. I think, but i could be wrong, that both the gd image library thats part of php and image magick use libpng for handling png files.
On production machines you can't just delete or disable the library and go oh well we can't serve the images that make up a large part of the site. thats too bad.
Everyone has access to the source code for Linux and BSD, so there are more people in a position to spot problems there
While it is true more people have the opertunity to go through the source and check for problems, how many actually do? Did you read throught the source for any of the open source software you installed ? I certainly don't have the time and in many cases enough knowledge of the language and problem to properly review the code.
I never been that convinced by the Cathedral vs the Bazaar argument. Given fewer people use linux and of those users even less will have enough knowledge, time and expertise to bug hunt in any meaningful way is having the source open that much of an advantage?
I think the real advantage is the comunity around the OSS movement as I was having a problem with firewire under linux and was able to get in contact with one of the authors of the drivers who helped fix the problem.
In the uk they have a series of distance lines painted on the road and the camera takes two photos when triggered. They can then use the distance your car travelled in the time interval between the photos to double check your speed if there is a dispute.
Your comment about MS Sql Server isn't quite accurate, they provide a fully functional demo of SQL server 2005a milyid=6931fa7f-c094-49a2-a050-2d07993566ec&displa ylang=en/ here
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?f
From the website
This fully functional trial software will automatically expire after six months. You can obtain the fully licensed version at any time.
You can also get a version of SQL server called express which is feature limited but doesn't expire, for development work.
I haven't seen office 12 and if there are massive changes to the GUI then they would be better not upgrading or if they need a newer version, go with open office as you suggest. However its a bit harsh using a non released version of the ms office software to try and argue that switching is currently a good thing.
In addition the 'killer' product not only has to be as good as what it is replacing it has to be way better to justify relearning how to do basic tasks. While moving between star, open or microsoft office is trivial for technical people, the average user has major problems with the gui being slighting different and commands being in different menus.
The other big problem is that many companies have invested a huge amount of money in VB Script automation. The cost of the license for something like MS office is trivial compared to the amount spent on custom development . Unless the open source offerings can provide some sort of compatibility layer for macros and such like corporate migration is really unlikely.
So while having good open source alternatives to MS office is a good thing there is slim to no chance of them ever replacing Microsoft word as the defacto word processor.
This company make handsets which meet all the criteria including each having unique ids.
http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/interwriteprs.htm
My univeristy used them during lectures as part of a research project. It allowed the lecturer to do real time polls as part of his powerpoint presentation to judge if people understood the material. There was a window that popped up and showed the id of every one who voted as well as the current total of voters. They ended up limiting the number of times you could vote because people were repeatedly voting and spamming the system to see how many times they could get their id on the screen.
You can vote 1-9 and rate your vote as neutral, high confidence or low confidence.
I'm not sure how expensive they are though.
The neurons die from lack of oxygen. CPR puts oxygen in the body( 2 breaths ) and circulates it( 15 compressions ). By sedimentation I assume you mean clotting. This is caused by the vessel walls failing to produce anti-coagulants due to the bodies metabolism shutting down.
Draining the blood wouldn't help much as your neurons would still die due to lack of oxygen.
I don`t think a lot of musicians make that much money of recordings, some will even lose money by releasing a recording
If you release the music for free then surely you lose more money. It still costs a lot of money to make a quality recording.
Also what is your basis for the assertion that most artists make their money perfoming live. This point of view is popular on slashdot but I have never seen anyone back it up evidence.
It is really expensive to put on a live performance and unless you are u2 who can charge £50 per ticket you will be hard pressed to make any money. If you are talking about touring on any level you need to find money up front to pay for things like venue hire, equipement hire, insurance etc. If you dont have money from album and merch sales where will this money come from?
There are a lot of suggestions for 'new business models' but most of them seem to involve the artist losing money when you examine them closely.
I have a kenwood car cd player which can read the CD text of cd's. This gives you the album title artist which scrolls across the display. It can also play mp3's wma as well. So not a complete halt in advancement. Also if you have ever used the more high end stuff such as a pioneer cdj range which reads in and buffers a whole track.It also display graphs of the track amplitude so you know where the quiet bits of the song are. There have been new advances it just doesn't seem to filter down to the consumer range stuff.
I agree though that the ui for most current hi-fi products is really lacking and stuck in the 90's.