U.S. Scientists Create Zombie Dogs

well... by darthpenguin · 2005-06-27 07:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

The article is somewhat light on facts. From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

I suppose we'll have to wait for a real scientific journal to publish this before we find out much more.

Also, another attempt at hibernation, this time in mice, using a different method involving hydrogen sulfide gas.

Re:well... by ruggerboy · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 4, Informative

"Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." I think this means gunshot wounds etc.
Re:well... by Binestar · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 5, Informative

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

They were refering to the use of this in medical emergencies. Put someone into this state, work on the damaged tissue with no bleeding or time crunch, then revive when they are fixed.

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...

--
Do you Gentoo!?
Re:well... by m85476585 · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 1

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

IF their blood vessles or tissues are damaged, they can be repaired
Re:well... by jdray · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

They're going to get some guy named Riddik as the test subject for the human trial...

--
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
Re:well... by techstar25 · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
Someone very very old. Maybe someone dying...just a guess.
Re:well... by daniil · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

--
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
Re:well... by lucabrasi999 · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
George Romero?
Re:well... by Carnildo · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, one obvious use is for open-heart surgery -- that goes a whole lot easier if you can stop the heart, and heart-lung machines aren't perfect. I think the first human trials will be volunteers who are additionally undergoing major surgery.

--
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
Re:well... by Chris+Burke · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think the line about damaged blood vessels and tissues is in regards to the reason why you wanted to freeze the dog/person in the first place -- some fatal injury. They are talking about the medical uses for this technique, and using it to save people who have lost a lot of blood, so that's where I got this impression. The technique itself isn't supposed to damage tissues, but if you resuscitate the person/animal while they still have the big gaping chest wound that would kinda defeat the purpose, so you have to fix that first.

But yeah, definitely need a better story.

--

The enemies of Democracy are
Re:well... by ReverendLoki · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 1

Still light on facts, but I do recall anecdotal stories about people who have drowned in freezing temperatures being revived successfully long after the "normal" length of time, with little to no brain damage, having been preserved by the extremely cold temperature to which they've fallen.
Though the temperature may perfectly preserve the body, I would think that the whole process of having all of your blood pumped out and replaced by another fluid, and then that replaced by blood again, would damage the blood vessels themselves.

Yeah, it be nice to see a scientific journal's report on this.

--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Re:well... by Sosarian · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?
Um both? If your blood vessels are damaged by a gunshot wound as stated in the article and you have massive bloodloss this would keep you "alive" by keeping you dead for a time while they patched you up.
Personally I think the fluids would just drain out of whatever wounds you do have.

I think a better application of this technology will be for these multi-hour operations where they want to repair heart defects or do transplants, in which they currently induce hypothermic states.
Re:well... by percepto · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 1

First of all, there's no way in hell that they'll be testing this technique on humans within a year. We don't even know if the zombie dogs are going to survive another year! TFA claims that there's no damage to the dogs, but we can't know how their total lifespan is effected yet.
Second, if someday this technology is actually usable, I would prefer to see it used for space travel than for reviving egomaniac celebrities. Another good use might be freezing people who need kidney transplants and then defrosting them when the organs become available.

--
The term "outside the box" is squarely within the box at this point.
Re:well... by Hoi+Polloi · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 1

I'm not sure you can use highly experimental procedures on even the mortally wounded without some kind of 3rd party consent.

--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Re:well... by StupidHelpDeskGuy · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 0, Flamebait

US scientists have succeeded in reviving the dogs after three hours of clinical death, paving the way for trials on humans within years.

I wonder what institution would be able to get these experiments approved? Stem cells are considered bad, but re-animating dogs and people is ok?

Questionable science, questionable source. All in all, a very slashdot like submission. Now if we could just get them to re-animate Timothy.
Re:well... by pin_gween · 2005-06-27 08:08 · Score: 1

There are many cases of people being submerged in ice water for extended periods of time without brain damage... probably induced by the rapid temperature drop and the lower cellular respiration.

you're right re: the lightweight facts though. How does cellular degeneration not occur? Do they continually pump the solution through the body? You would think they would have to.

In regards to the damaged blood vessels, I think they mean IF there were damaged vessels, like those suffered by soldiers in combat, peopel in accidents, etc.

Will be interesting to see as more reseach is done.

--
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life

Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
Re:well... by cmpalmer · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 4, Informative

There was a good summary of this technique as well as the hydrogen sulfide method in an article in Discover last month. This appears to be a very hot (no pun intended) topic in experimental medicine.

--
-- stream of did I lock the front door consciousness
Re:well... by Have+Blue · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1

How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?

I would guess that brain damage results from the body attempting to keep its metabolism running while lacking a key ingredient. If the freezing process is rapid enough, all brain activity would ceases within moments, leaving the brain completely inactive. An analogy would be that if you removed all the oil from a running car engine it would destroy itself in seconds, but if you turn off the ignition before draining and don't try to start it until oil is back up to a safe level then there would be no damage.
Re:well... by Rei · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yep. And the reason that they don't get brain damaged is because their neurons aren't dying. And their neurons aren't dying because they're not metabolizing, and thus needing oxygen. The brain is in hibernation, just like the rest of the body.

Still, this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit... sounds like 50s sci-fi. What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?

--
What a crazy random happenstance!
Re:well... by Binestar · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 1

A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

Sure, as long as that person gets shot, and they accidentally bring him to this research facility instead of a hospital...

I'm certainly not familiar with the way they test these things, but wouldn't they need to do thier tests initially on people who understand what they are going to undertake and sign off on it? I'm pretty sure this would more likely be used initially to assist with organ transplants on terminally ill patients as opposed to on an ER patient who was just shot.

--
Do you Gentoo!?
Re:well... by _bug_ · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur?

My guess is that this process takes the body down to 7C whereas in drowning, even in cold water, your body goes down to like 37C (at least that's what the article says). So I'm guessing the extra 30C gives you more time.

But I wonder if after an hour or two, or some amount of time, you'd start to see the same problems.
Re:well... by Nos. · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

I think this technology is targetted at patients who's problems are repairable, but not in the time provided by contemporary surgery. Imagine a gunshot victim that is bleeding to death. Supposing that the salt (saline?) solution could still be injected and take effect, doctors could then have hours to perform the life saving operation as opposed to the minutes the have now. I don't think you'll have perfectly healthy volunteers going into a clinic. More likely they'll setup at an ER and try it on patients that have no likelyhood of survival. I'm wondering if the US (or other countries) would allow those on death row to volunteer for such trials. I wouldn't want to see them forced into it, but allowing them to volunteer for these sorts of things could provide valuable research.
Re:well... by andreMA · 2005-06-27 08:13 · Score: 1

I do recall anecdotal stories about people who have drowned in freezing temperatures being revived successfully long after the "normal" length of time, with little to no brain damage, having been preserved by the extremely cold temperature to which they've fallen.
That was my initial thought as well. I seem to recall that following rescue such cold-water-drowning victims are often placed in a drug educed coma for several days, which serves to reduce cerebral edema (swelling of the brain).
I vaguely recall that it made a great difference whether it was fresh or salt water, but I can't recall which was "better"
Re:well... by ottothecow · 2005-06-27 08:13 · Score: 1

as long as its one of them damn boffins

--
Bottles.
Re:well... by Rei · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 5, Funny

I'm wondering if the US (or other countries) would allow those on death row to volunteer

So what... they kill them, bring them back to life, and kill them again? That explains the concept of being given multiple sentences of death ;)

Besides... from what I heard, as soon as the dogs were brought back, they immediately headed to the nearest computer and started incessently sending out bulk email.

--
What a crazy random happenstance!
Re:well... by xfmr_expert · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 3, Informative

Well, there is actually a Safar Center for Resuscitation Research in Pittsburgh. They have been doing Suspended Animation research for at least 10 years now, according to thier site, for the U.S. Navy. They have been using dogs as test subjects, but apparently only until recently have been unable to bring the animals back to life without some brain damage. Their goal is to make it 2 hours or more with causing brain damage. The intent is for severe trauma victims to be put into a state of suspended animation until they can be transported to a hospital for treatment, specifically battlefield injuries.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 0

might be able to use it on a death row inmate - they consent to it as an alternative to the chair or whatever and if they live they get a nice little hut on a deserted island with a box of supplies dropped by parachute each month.
Re:well... by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Depending on the thickness of your tinfoil hat- there are many examples of the gov'/military testing things on humans despite the fact that they "aren't supposed to." The Tuskegee Airmen are a well known example, others may require a little more belief in some conspiracy type things.
It seems to me that this would, or has already been, tested on humans who aren't from the good ole US... The are billions of people of Earth, and they gov'y knows where to find the ones who won't be noticed... i.e. prostitutes etc.
This does bring up all types of amazing possibilities- like having this on ambulances so peopel could be suspended until they are at a hospital and the trauma team is ready...
Although I seem to remember a few times I tried to replace my blood with liquor, and even at a relatively low %, I still woke up with a heck of a headache...

--
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
Re:well... by th0mas.sixbit.org · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 1

it's not a simple injection - you have to drain the blood from the victim's nec^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H volunteer's body and keep the saline at that low temperature...

--
twitter.com/gravitronic
Re:well... by lucabrasi999 · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Still, this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit... sounds like 50s sci-fi. What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?
I can hear it now:

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four inch wide GORILLA? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME?
Re:well... by daniil · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 1

as long as that person gets shot, and they accidentally bring him to this research facility instead of a hospital...
Sounds like a great plot for a movie, doesn't it?

--
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
Re:well... by RobertKozak · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 2, Informative

Right. I read an article in Scientific American on hibernation which discussed this also. I thought it still has a way to go before testing on humans.

Here is the link http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?chan ID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000B97C7-074E-1289-BC20 83414B7F0000
Unfortunately, it is just a synopsis for the digital version you have to buy.

--
Bet this .sig looks familiar.
Re:well... by jeffcm · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 1

I guess perhaps you're a little rusty with the metric scale - the human body is normally at 37 degrees.
Re:well... by iluvcapra · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 1

Note that the article reports the source as "Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research". Isn't Pittsburg where George Romero shoots all his films?

This article is a prank.

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Re:well... by WormholeFiend · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 1

I remember reading a scary article about how artificial blood products are sometimes used by paramedics without consent when they don't have the right blood type handy and when the victim is unconscious...
Re:well... by billster0808 · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 0

Actually, they just jump through windows and scare the shit out of you when you least expect it.
Re:well... by Hal_Porter · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 1

Clinically dead just means their heart and brain activity have stopped as far as I can see.

They can reverse it after the surgery.

I found this link,
http://www.stormingmedia.us/30/3027/A302724.html

Not the most readable thing but you can see what they do.

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Re:well... by grub · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 1

Isn't Pittsburg where George Romero shoots all his films?

Almost. The current Land of the Dead was shot in Toronto for financial reasons.

--
Trolling is a art,
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 0

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
Probably some captured terrorists will happily volunteer for this. ;)
Re:well... by Verteiron · 2005-06-27 08:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sorry, but how exactly is this scary?

--
End of lesson. You may press the button.
Re:well... by homer_ca · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

I think it happens more with children. Their bodies can go into a hibernation state in the freezing cold water.
Re:well... by StupidHelpDeskGuy · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Tests show they are perfectly normal, with no brain damage.

I would like to know how they gauge "normal" behavior. Althought dogs are forgiving animals, I think they might hold a grudge if you killed them, and then brought them back to life. What are baseline are they using for "normal" behavior? Are we talking Scooby Doo, or a Pit Bull? Is success defined as the dog not developing a taste for human brains?
Re:well... by lucabrasi999 · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 1

Here are the Google search results on Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research. It looks legitimate: http://www.neurosurgery.pitt.edu/research/safar.ht ml
Re:well... by Hal_Porter · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 1

Not perfect sounds like an understatement.

They can give you pump head

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 0

There was an article about both the dogs & mice in Scientific American a month or two ago.

Bottom line is that if you replace the blood with cold sterile saline or hydrgen sulfide the cells of the body enter a hibernation state, very similar to what some mammals do (bears, for instance) in the winter. During this hibernation state the body's metabolic rate is very low.

As a result of this low metabolic rate, an organism can stay alive longer than it otherwise could. One possible result of this research is ER doctors being able to hibernate a person, repair damage, then restart their bodies with the proper transfusions and shocks.

However, the more direct focus of this research was to increase the transportation times of donated organs. Donated organs currently have a lifespan of between 4-6 to 24 hours, depending on the organ (heart at 4-6, kidney at 24 IIRC) so the recipients and operating staff need to be ready to go at a moment's notice - so the organ traveling time plus the operating time has to be less than the donated organ lifespan. Using the hibernation trick will potentially allow the organs to last for a longer period of time, thereby increasing the pool of available recipients the organs can go to and increasing the possibility that the organs will be used.
Re:well... by evilpenguin · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 5, Informative

The Tuskegee airmen and the Tuskegee syphilus study aren't the same thing! (Although both refer to the same place).

The evil government experiment was the Tuskegee syphilus study. They told residents of Tuskegee that they would receive free syphilus treatment and then treatment was withheld so the effects of syphilus could be scientifically documented and studied.

I do not know if any of the Tuskegee Airmen (the only black squadron -- or the first, I don't remember -- in WWII) were in the study also, but they are not the same thing at all.
Re:well... by PMuse · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 1

this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit...

Ubercreepy is definitely the word. Feels just like sitting in an empty house after midnight watching a Kiefer Sutherland movie . . .

--
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Re:well... by StupidHelpDeskGuy · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 1

For those of you who were confused.

"Boffins": (Bôf ' ns) noun - the name for scientists and scholars working quietly to develop new and exciting techniques and skills
Re:well... by AngryUndead · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 1

Survival horor is... thats great. Made me laugh.

--
I wear the ring.
Re:well... by Shano · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 1

I would expect higher survival rates from fresh water. Salt water is likely to be cold enough for the body to start to freeze, causing massive tissue damage.

Not a doctor, of course.
Re:well... by pete-classic · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 2, Funny

Sounds more like Victorian Sci-fi to me, but what do I know?

-Peter
Re:well... by pyrrhonist · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 2, Informative

Note that the article reports the source as "Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research". Isn't Pittsburg where George Romero shoots all his films?
Pittsburg is also the home of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, which is what the Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research is part of.

The man the center is named after developed CPR.

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:well... by clem · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

Sounds like a great plot for a movie, doesn't it?

As the value of "great" approaches "crappy".

--
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
Re:well... by jonored · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

...this isn't cryogenic "freezing people", more like... refrigerating people so they last for a few hours. Think keeping milk cool so it'll keep for a day or two, not putting berries into deep-freeze for three months...

And it's a preservation technique - it requires the patient to be alive at the beginning. There's still not much you can do for a rotting corpse...

Wouldn't help much if you're needing an organ, either - but it could help tremendously with the surgery to put the organ in.
Re:well... by dcsmith · 2005-06-27 08:31 · Score: 2, Funny

If those are the only two choices, I'd have to go with a Pit Bull. Scooby Doo is a cartoon, so reviving him would really just involve getting some fresh ink for the next panel.

--
This has been a test. If this had been an actual Sig, you would have been amused.
Re:well... by Doctor+Memory · 2005-06-27 08:32 · Score: 1

This is known as the "mammalian reflex", I believe. Basically, your body pumps the last of the oxygenated blood to the brain before the heart shuts down. When the person is revived, the brain immediately has a supply of oxygen-rich blood available. This effect apparently is much more pronounced in children than in older people, and AFAIK really only works in cold water.

--
Just junk food for thought...
Re:well... by ArsonSmith · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 3, Funny

Artificial blood is drained from satan's third nipple.

--
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Re:well... by imroy · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 1

I remember seeing a report on TV years ago about a technique the Russians developed. First they load you up with barbituates (sp?) and then put you on ice. Your body slows down and your heart eventually stops (perhaps like hypothermia) but the barbituates somehow preserve you. Then they can cut you open and do open-heart surgery without the complicated heart-lung machines. Then they stitch you up, take you out of the ice, and somhow (?!) revive you. Necessity is the mother of invention!
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 0

If you were paying attention when you read the article, instead of just looking for things to complain about, you would have noticed the following sentence before the quoted lines. "But even a this should be enough to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss."

The Russians have been using a simliar technique for years during open heart surgery and espeically brain aneurism repair procedures. They lower the core temperature of the patient low enough to stop the heart and it gives them time to repair the problem without blood trying to flow through blood vessel without expensive and complex bypass machines and without any brain damage from the lack of blood.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 0

"Damaged blood vessels and tissues..." being the blood vessels and tissues that have 'already' been damaged prior to the freeze, not 'because' of the freeze.
Re:well... by meanfriend · 2005-06-27 08:35 · Score: 3, Informative

The article is somewhat light on facts. From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?
There was a recent article in Scientific American* talking about suspended animation that may give clues as to how this works. Cell damage does indeed take place during low oxygen states (hypoxia) when the cell's metabolism continues without sufficient oxygen available and allows free radicals to build up and cause cellular damage. It appears that in some organisms, when you reduce the oxygen to an even lower state or remove it completely (anoxia), the cells can essentially shut down thier metabolism into a state of suspended animation. In other words, either normal oxygen or no oxygen can be tolerated, but there is a 10 fold window of low oxygen concentration that can be deadly. I believe this is where the brain damage occurs. If you stopped breathing right now, your blood still contains oxygen which would get slowly depleted as the cells continue to respirate. Perhaps the key to this technique is to rapidly replace the blood with a no/very low oxygen content fluid that will transition the cells from normal oxygen to anoxia as quickly as possible an minimize the amount of time spent in hypoxia.

This procedure has already been demonstrated in animals like mice though it is unknown whether humans can safely undergo the same conditions, as we (obviously) dont normally go into hibernation. Though we've all heard stories of martial arts masters lowering their breathing rates and body temps for extended periods, so maybe it is possible. It would be an absolutely amazing breakthrough, though I wouldnt volunteer to be the first human test subject ;)

* I am not remotely an expert in this field, but my background is in biology. I hope my memory has recalled the facts of the SciAm story without too much error.
Re:well... by Foobar+of+Borg · 2005-06-27 08:36 · Score: 3, Funny

Althought dogs are forgiving animals, I think they might hold a grudge if you killed them, and then brought them back to life. What are baseline are they using for "normal" behavior? Are we talking Scooby Doo, or a Pit Bull? Is success defined as the dog not developing a taste for human brains?
Well, on the plus side, they could collaborate with the Japanese inventor (can't remember his name) who is developing a dog translation device. I can see it now:

Dog: Woof! Woof!

Translator: Why did you kill me?

Dog: Woof! Arf! Woof! Woof!

Translator: Mmmm... Big, tasty scientist brains!

--
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:37 · Score: 0

If they are brought back, technically they cannot be executed again as the sentance has already been carried out?
Re:well... by OwnedByTwoCats · 2005-06-27 08:38 · Score: 2

It seems to me that this would, or has already been, tested on humans who aren't from the good ole US... The are billions of people of Earth, and they gov'y knows where to find the ones who won't be noticed... i.e. prostitutes etc.
Or foreign nationals. Abducted, and then given a choice between tortu^H^H^H^H^Hcoercive interrogation or volunteering for a medical experiment.
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-27 08:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, I was brought into the hospital for lifesaving surgery. . .but my condition was such that it was deemed I would die from the stress of undergoing surgery.

This is the sort of person who will volunteer. A person who has nothing to lose if the procedure fails, but everything to gain if it succeeds.

KFG

P.S. I got better.
Re:well... by Nerd-o-mancer · 2005-06-27 08:41 · Score: 1

The Navy might even be able to use it to bring sailors up from crippled subs. If you can get people into hibernation fast enough, and equalize the pressure inside and out of the body, you wouldn't even need to worry about dragging people straight up from the bottom. There would be no breathing to worry about, and if you had enought time, you could counteract any potential risk of the bends.
Re:well... by defunkt0r · 2005-06-27 08:42 · Score: 1

didnt kevin bacon & keifer southerland already do this?
Re:well... by operagost · 2005-06-27 08:45 · Score: 1

The only problem is, right after they revive you you have a nasty case of the munchies.

--

Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Re:well... by BewireNomali · 2005-06-27 08:46 · Score: 1

I thought it was phony too. Googled the center and Dr. Safar.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2005/04/21/AR2005042101262_2.html

The center exists and they do this kind of science.

http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyle/20020331safa r0331fnp2.asp The doctor exists and he's done some cool shit. Or did. He's passed on.

This sounds like intriguing science.

--
un burrito me trampeó.
Re:well... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · 2005-06-27 08:46 · Score: 1

Anyway...it's kinda unusual. Though I dare say, once it's been used a a few times I could imagine a Supreme Court judge deciding it's not unusual any more.

--
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:49 · Score: 0

I know there are plenty of people out there would would like John Romero better if he was actually a zombie... or even if they didn't succeed.
Re:well... by Iriel · 2005-06-27 08:51 · Score: 1

This sounds fascinating in every respect, but for the moment, I'll sit the in ER lobby holding my spleen in my left hand until they give me the rest of the article.

While they said that there is no brain damage, I want to know how long it was from revival to testing for damage. Besides, damage to the frontal lobe can be microscopic and yet completely change a human's personality. While the procedure isn't blunt trauma, I would have to wonder about the long term possiblities of some kind of neurochemical backlash or anything of the like. Once they've figured out all of that, then I'll put my organs in a wheelbarrow for them to stich me back up as a new recruit for The Horde.

--
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
Re:well... by BlogPope · 2005-06-27 08:52 · Score: 2, Funny

Is your claim that paramedics should allow the unconcious to bleed to death rather than risk offending the patients morals? Or are you proposing paramedics are knocking their patients unconsious so they can randomly install artificial blood products.?
Because if its the later I may want to become a paramedic!

Cue announcer, we haven't told them, but we've replaced these patients regular blood with new Dracu Instant Blood Product. Lets see if the can tell the difference!

--
My other car is a Popemobile
Re:well... by hayh · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
I'm more interested in knowing: if I volunteer, can I collect life insurance as well?
Re:well... by caluml · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

Feels just like sitting in an empty house
Wouldn't that make it not empty any more? :)

--
Get your own free personal location tracker
Re:well... by zephc · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

Sure you can. In fact, the government has tried experimenting on taming zombies, as seen in the documentary "Return of the Living Dead 3"

--
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Re:well... by jacksonj04 · 2005-06-27 08:58 · Score: 1

And when was the last time you gave blood to prevent situations like that from arising?

--
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Re:well... by zelphior · 2005-06-27 08:59 · Score: 1

From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?

In a word: yes. This is how people who fall through ice and remain underwater for extended periods of time (I believe the record is several hours in extremely cold water) are able to be revived, often without brain damage. What brain damage does occur is usually during the first few minutes after clinical death, when the body is still warm. Once the body core gets cold enough, brain damage does not get any worse. Speeding up the "chilling" process limits brain damage to be, according to the article, pretty much non-existant.

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

This is referring to injured people. Say you get shot, or critically wounded, or whatever, in a mass casualty situation. Doctors can only operate on one person at a time, so some people end up waiting for surgury, and die in the process. With this technology, everyone is frozen. Then the doctors can take a few hours to discover the problem, and perform surgury.

--
If you can read this then I forgot to check "Post Anonymously"
Re:well... by eheimer · 2005-06-27 08:59 · Score: 1

Yeah, and I thought it was Aussie slang for "crazy-assed American scientists".
Re:well... by somethinghollow · 2005-06-27 09:00 · Score: 1

1. Feed patient barbituates
2. Freeze them
3. Perform surgery
4. Close everything up
5. Thaw
6. ???
7. Profit!

In Soviet Russia, barbituates are loaded up with you.

Ok. I'm done.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:10 · Score: 0

"Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery" Might refer to the damage which caused the death or was about to cause it. So, you are about to die, they hibernate you, then mend, and after they're done bring you back to life. Voila!
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:11 · Score: 1, Funny

having been a longtime Toronto resident, I can assure you it was shot in Toronto for easy access to zombies, not financial reasons ;)
Re:well... by Johnny+Mnemonic · 2005-06-27 09:13 · Score: 1

I do not know if any of the Tuskegee Airmen (the only black squadron -- or the first, I don't remember -- in WWII)

Both groups (The Tuskegee Airmen and the participants in the Tuskegee syphilis study) were comprised of African-Americans, also. I believe that is a component of the confusion.

--

--
$tar -xvf .sig.tar
Re:well... by LWATCDR · 2005-06-27 09:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Well one thing they had in common was they where experiments. Many people believed that African Americans could not fly fighters. During the early part of the experiment they did very poorly. Of course they where flying P-40s which where the worst fighter the USAAC had in service at that time. Before anyone gets too bent there where white units flying the P-40 also at that time. Later in the war the Tuskegee airmen flew P-51s which where one of the best fighters of the war. When flying the P-51 they did very well. As well as any all white squadron. So yes they where both where experiments. Now as to if they where both evil. Let's just say that both where conducted because of the notions of the time. At least the Airmen got to make an informed decision.

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:well... by D'Sphitz · 2005-06-27 09:14 · Score: 1

I'm interested in how religion will explain this. If you beleive you go to heaven when you die, does this mean your soul can be pulled back from the afterlife?

Maybe we'll see a new tourism industry, "Take your next vacation in heaven!".

Nah, I'm yankin' ya! You just rot in the ground.
Re:well... by yatt · 2005-06-27 09:15 · Score: 1

I think it was called Robocop...
Re:well... by Duhavid · 2005-06-27 09:16 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...

You. I have all the permissions paperwork here. Dont you remember? Well, in any case, please report for the procedure, and Good Luck!

--
emt 377 emt 4
Re:well... by Digital+Pizza · 2005-06-27 09:17 · Score: 1

Well, you obviously survived without the use of this new procedure; therefore you did have something to lose after all, even though the doctors thought you didn't.
That's why I don't think that using trauma patients for a new procedure trial is a good idea; they can't always be sure that they'll actually benefit more from this than a traditional approach; that's why it's a trial.

P.S. Glad you're OK now.

--
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Re:well... by iabervon · 2005-06-27 09:17 · Score: 1

The article makes it sound more creepy than it really is. It's not like they can reanimate just any dead dog. It's effectively a lot like anaestesia, but more stuff shuts down. The electrical shock to restart the heart is more prime-time drama than 50s sci-fi at this point. It's the whole shouting "clear" thing.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:18 · Score: 0

Carmack, is that you?
Re:well... by Johnboi+Waltune · 2005-06-27 09:18 · Score: 1

IANACellularBiologist either, but I think seawater is better because your cells have roughly the same salinity as seawater, and it maintains the osmotic balance inside and outside the cell membrane. Animal cells can lyse (rupture) in fresh water due to the osmotic pressure.

I daresay that's why they used saline solution in this experiment, and why we use saline solution for intravenous rehydration. You would want the concentration of the solute to be equal on either side of the cell membrane to prevent water from entering or leaving the cell.

--
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
Re:well... by ILikeRed · 2005-06-27 09:18 · Score: 1

You have never served in any military service, have you.

--
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
Re:well... by Anne+Thwacks · 2005-06-27 09:21 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
If they use WWF wrestlers, no one will have any more idea if they are brain dead than they did with the lawyers^h^h^h^h^h dogs

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:well... by Bingo+Foo · 2005-06-27 09:24 · Score: 1

... and the syphilis patients got free government health care.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:well... by Lemuridae · 2005-06-27 09:24 · Score: 1

I had always thought that salt water was better because of osmotic pressure issues: fresh water enters the lung tissue causing tissue and red blood cell rupture. But apparently different bad things happen for either salt or fresh water inhalation with salt water resulting in more severe hypoxia during recovery because the alveoli are more completely filled with plasma drawn out of the tissue. Ideally, you should try to drown in water of exactly the same salinity as human blood.

http://www.rescuediver.org/med/drown.htm

You would have to be in the Antarctic for the temp difference to be relevant and probably not even there.

Interesting OT article relating to Antarctic swimming:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030203fa_fa ct1
Re:well... by ChuDthaStuD · 2005-06-27 09:26 · Score: 1

The Hydrogen Sulfide method seems scary to me...I work on an oil rig and considering we have gas masks and H2S detectors in many rooms just in case we hit some H2S in the ground...

lets just say the 'safety' videos are more like 'scared shitless' videos...
Re:well... by orderb13 · 2005-06-27 09:27 · Score: 1

Sounds more like "Universal Soldier" to me
Re:well... by B3ryllium · 2005-06-27 09:27 · Score: 1

The insurance company would probably require a death certificate and a full autopsy - even with cryogenics, I don't think most bodies could be put properly together again (in working order) after having everything removed. Including ...

braaaaaaains!
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:28 · Score: 0

The paragraph about repairing damaged blood vessels and tissues, is talking about damage done through other means, such as a stabbing, gunshot etc.
Re:well... by pthisis · 2005-06-27 09:28 · Score: 1

A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

Sure, as long as that person gets shot, and they accidentally bring him to this research facility instead of a hospital...

The U Pitt medical center (which the Safar Institute is part of) is a lot like the Johns Hopkins Medical Center or other research medical centers. It's a research hospital, but because it has many of the top doctors in the area it also gets severe cases (including massive trauma cases) that require special skills.

Also, like all hospitals, there's an element of proximity; if you get shot in the Oakland neighborhood of Pittsburgh (where the University is), they're probably going to treat you in UPMC and not rush you bleeding to some other hospital farther away.

So it's pretty likely that a mortally wounded gunshot victim would wind up there.

--
rage, rage against the dying of the light
Re:well... by jd0g85 · 2005-06-27 09:29 · Score: 1

How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain?
Damage occurs when metabolism procedes without oxygen (and other molecules are processed instead with nasty biproducts). This technique severly slows metabolism so lack of oxygen is not crucial.
"Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?
Both. Due to hibernation, tissues are preserved and tissue damage does not spread. Because of this, it is promising for the future surgery. Imagine a patient with many serious injuries. If you induce hibernation using saline, you now have time to repair one injury without the others becoming worse.

Check out one of the latest Scientific American issues for a better explaination. (I just read it, but I don't remember which issue it was.)

--
There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death.-Asimov
Re:well... by Bingo+Foo · 2005-06-27 09:29 · Score: 1

I think you mean the "Firefo Centre for Resuscitation Research." The "Safar Centre" is in Cupertino.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:well... by bonehead · 2005-06-27 09:30 · Score: 1

Well, since you'd be replacing the saline solution with fresh blood that has been stored at normal atmospheric pressure once they got to the surface, the bends would pretty much be a non-issue.
Re:well... by Swisssushi · 2005-06-27 09:30 · Score: 1

I have read another article about this. What they actually do is inflict a nasty wound on the dog and then perform the stasis procedure, operate to fix the wound, and then re-animate the dog. The whole thing sounds terrifying to me. I'm a big animal lover and this just gives me the willies. But, it sounds promising for saving lives (both animal and human actually) so I'm torn between deploring the cruelty and being intrigued by the science and promise for saving lives.

--
Swisssushi - When the going gets tough, get some tenderizer
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:31 · Score: 0

But Saline is cheap. It means that after any procedure you will only need 8 pints, on average, of blood.
It might also be possible to recycle any saline that bleeds out of the patient. Also the heart wouldn't be pumping and saline is transparent. The result would be that it should be easier to patch someone up.

I wonder whether this could be used by paramedics. They wouldn't need to carry blood. It would also make it easier to stabilise people enough to transport them to hospital. Don't paramedics already carry saline in order to maintain blood pressure. I remember an episode of 'third watch' were they find a women frozen in a basement and they use very cold saline, but they used it to warm her up.

A person can survive along time without oxygen as long as their brain cells do not start apoptosis. Actually most cells die because one of their neighbours die and release chemicals that tell them to kill themselves.

In fact many cells in the body have rather low oxygen requirements anyway. Cartilage has very low requirements. Making it ideal for plastic surgery (remember the mouse with the human shaped ear). In fact if it wasn't for the brain dying you could probably survive for half an hour to an hour without oxygen.
Re:well... by jnf · 2005-06-27 09:31 · Score: 1

soylent green is people
Re:well... by BerntB · 2005-06-27 09:32 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
A mortally wounded gunshot victim?
Isn't it usually grad students who "volunteer" to help the research? :-)

--
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:35 · Score: 0

... and the syphilis patients got free government health care.

No. They didn't. That's the point.
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-27 09:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

A)I was not a trauma patient.

B)All medicine, indeed all of life, is a question of probabilities and trying to stack them in your favor. We do not have, and thus cannot rely on, foreknowledge.

Get used to this idea.

The most common and "safest" traditional procedures may, in the right circumstances, kill you. That's the way it is.

No one can be sure, ever, that they'll actually benefit more from a trial procedure (or any other) than from a traditional approach, that's why it's a trial procedure, and why trial procedures are necessary. Probability is an empirical science and someone has to go first.

KFG
Re:well... by ccoakley · 2005-06-27 09:39 · Score: 1

You seem to be unaware of the great fiscal burden of transporting zombies over the Canada-US border post 9/11. It was much easier (and cheaper) for the first few films.

Of course, back then, the US had plenty of zombies with free time to make movies, and as a consequence did not have to import many. Now we have elected all of them to public office.

However, having played resident evil (it was necessary research for a biology class), I assure you that zombie dogs rarely have their damaged tissue repaired, which is a detail the article seems to overlook.

--
Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
Re:well... by Apiakun · 2005-06-27 09:39 · Score: 1

If they can't stop the bleeding, they're not going to be able to stop the saline from leaking out either.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:42 · Score: 0

Do they 'all look the same' to you?
Re:well... by HermanAB · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 1

Car crashes produce a never ending stream of 'volunteers'...

--
Oh well, what the hell...
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

Yeah, but if the chilled saline drains out of the wound while they are operating, they can just keep on pumping more in.

Surigcal saline is a lot easier to mass produce that collecting blood of the same type as the paitient. I mean you can buy it in super markets if you really wanted (as people with cantact lenses will tell you). And it won't change coagulate like blood would.

Personally I think that because of the extreme nature of the procedure, it would be hard to convince a patient, or their family to accept the procedure unless they were going to die in the very, very near future. Like if they had a gunshot wound. And I supose the army would be free to trial it on any casualties; they have some sort of waiver he soldiers sign, don't they?
Re:well... by Bingo+Foo · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 1

Funny, that was my point too.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:well... by Nos. · 2005-06-27 09:45 · Score: 1

If it is just a simple saline solution, it would be trivial to make more than enough for a continual circulation, even if a significant amount is being lost through wound. Blood on the other hand, is not as readily available.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:49 · Score: 0

I think you mean the "Firefo Centre for Resuscitation Research."

Nope, they had to rename it "Firebir" - there was a trademark conflict with some interweb thingy or something.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:52 · Score: 0

You are misunderstanding the article, the application is for battlefield use so the damage being repaired is theoretical.
Re:well... by Cornflake917 · 2005-06-27 09:53 · Score: 1

People who want to see Jesus for a few hours:

Jesus: Welcome to heaven, my son.

Me: Sup dude, I can only stay for a few, just wanted to drop by to say what's up.

Jesus: Oh, I see. Well nothing new here. Admission is pretty low right now. Only seeing a few people being let through the gates every day, my child.

Me: Damn, I hope I get in when my time comes *wink* *wink*

Jesus: Hehe.........

Me: ....... So, ummm, any apocolpyses or anything coming our way soon?

Jesus: That's none of your damned buisiness, now get the hell out.

Me: Okay Okay! (under my breath) Jesus! What an asshole!

Jesus: I heard that.

--
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Re:well... by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2005-06-27 09:55 · Score: 5, Informative

From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur?

The 10 minute limit is for slow suffocation at normal temperatures. Two things happen:

- First, many of the tiny valves controlling the distribution of blood in the brain capilaries shut, trying to route the remaining oxygen to the neurons controlling things like breathing and heart rate.

These valves are tiny muscles, which, once contracted, require power (from metabolization) to reopen. Let them be oxygen-starved for too long - about ten minutes - and they get stuck closed. Then, even once oxygen is restored, the blood remains cut off to the areas they control. (It does no good to raise the blood pressure to try to force blood past them: You'll blow the plumbing before they leak. Massive stroke.)

- Second: As with the muscles, the neurons have continuous chemical reactions going on that cause damage that must be cleaned up by active, powered, systems. Turn down the oxygen while leaving the temperature up and the cleanup systems fail while the damage mechanisms continue. (Firing the nerve uses up additional power, making the problem worse.)

Let this go on for more than half an hour or so without turning the air back on and the damage gets ahead of the nerve's ability to repair it - causing cell death. That ruptures the cell and releases a glutamate - which tends to force other nearby nerves to fire, consuming their resources and speeding their death, in the "glutamate chain reaction". This easily gets started in regions of the brain fed by still-shut-off plumbing. But with enough glutimate dumped it can spread to nearby areas that have adequate oxygen - because it's not adequate to keep ahead of the massive firing and cell exhaustion.

The first mechanism sets the normal time limit. But the second is the final catastrophe.

But diving sets up a condition much like suffocation upon resurfacing: Swimming underwater pressurizes the gas in the lungs, and the organism can remain active for some time before it starts to run out of oxygen. But then it takes time to get back to the surface - and the lowered pressure on the ascent causes oxygen levels in the blood and tissue to crash. Not good.

Evolution came up with a workaround: The "mamilian diving reflex", so called because it's characteristic of all mamals - happened a LONG time back.

When the reflex detects a deep dive (cold on the skin - especially on the back of the neck, I think), it modifies the valves' reaction to overall oxygen shortage: Instead of shutting off blood to "unimportant" (for respiration) parts of the brain, it causes ALL the valves to OPEN. Then if they stick they stick open. This risks speeding respiratory failure. But once (if) oxygen is restored, it allows it to reach ALL the brain. Get oxygen back before the cells start dying (after a half hour or so) and they all get the power they nead to clean up and get on with life.

So if you drown in COLD water you can be breathing-stopped for a half-hour or a bit more and still be restarted with no long-term brain damage.

This treatment seems to extend on that: Flooding with cold saline will activate the diving reflex, sticking the valves open. Then the rapid oxygen loss will shut down all energy-driven metabolism - both the repair and some of the damage-makers.

Meanwhile, the deep cooling of the tissue (to essentially refrigerator temperatures) will slow the other damaging chemical reactions, just as refrigeration slows meat spoilage. (It IS slowing meat spoilage! And 7C is about 45F, close to the 40F recommended for refrigerator settings.) This is probably the main factor in getting past the half-hour limit on cold-drowning.

Separate storage of the blood allows the replacement fluid to be optimized to cool the rest of the body at a more rapid rate than could be accom

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Re:well... by soft_guy · 2005-06-27 09:57 · Score: 1

You aren't supposed to give blood if you sleep with prostitutes.

--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Re:well... by Mastoid · 2005-06-27 09:58 · Score: 3, Funny

Presumably someone turned you into a newt?

--
I had an argument...with the person here at the university that teaches OS design. I wonder when I'll learn --Linus
Re:well... by legallyillegal · 2005-06-27 09:59 · Score: 0

gimme a few bucks and i'll volunteer :P and by the way, it's wwe...

--
?giS
Re:well... by Trifthen · 2005-06-27 09:59 · Score: 1

Well, I had open-heart surgery in 1984 when I was seven years old. They installed a Dacron patch, corrected a valve, and repaired other minor defects. Stopping the heart isn't the hard part, getting it started again is. Fortunately I was one of the rare cases where the heart starts by itself when blood is reintroduced.

While this advancement obviously has interesting medical implications, I'm not so sure this is one of them.

--
Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
Re:well... by mabhatter654 · 2005-06-27 10:03 · Score: 1

sounds like an advanced version of what the russians have been using on kids.. The "hypothermia" effect when a small kid falls in freezing water but is shocked so quickly they can be revived without damage. The russians extended the technique on children to major surgeries that require lots of time like organ transplants. It was benifical because it reduced complecations during operation from excessive bleeding, and also used fewer expensive tools and drugs.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:04 · Score: 0

Their research has been peer-reviewed and published...
Re:well... by Dan+D. · 2005-06-27 10:08 · Score: 1

makes me wonder, if they aren't metabolizing, do they age? And if they don't age, wouldn't this be a really great way to shut someone 'off" while they await travel to another solar system? I suppose reviving them at the other end wouldn't be obvious :) I wonder how long someone can be in this state and still be revived. I suppose I should just hope to understand the journal article (if I can find it)...

--
People who quote themselves bug the crap out of me -- Me.
Re:well... by JacksonAces · 2005-06-27 10:13 · Score: 1

Who's going to volunteer? This research is going on at University of Pittsburgh, where I go to school, and some classes already require us to volunteer for experiments....I fear for my safety... ~jack
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-27 10:15 · Score: 3, Funny

Presumably someone turned you into a newt?

It was an effective tactic, as newts do not suffer from any of the maladies that had brought me to that particular pass. This bought them time to stablize me and develop an effective treatment strategy.

Actually, I was bit disappointed, as I had hoped to be transformed into a zombie newt and go out in search of amphibian BRAAAAAAAINS!

(I admit it, I haven't had time to read the whole thread. Has anyone pointed out yet that zombies are, by definition, animate, and thus a dog in suspended animation cannot be a zombie?)

KFG
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:18 · Score: 0

ok, this so should have been modded up for being funny....
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:28 · Score: 0

I'm sure they'd end up with a few extra screws.
Re:well... by vivin · 2005-06-27 10:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

Yep. And the reason that they don't get brain damaged is because their neurons aren't dying. And their neurons aren't dying because they're not metabolizing, and thus needing oxygen. The brain is in hibernation, just like the rest of the body.

So is there a temperature limit for metabolizing?

Cell death is of two kinds - apoptosis or necrosis. Apoptosis is programmed cell death (when the lysosomes break), whereas necrosis is due to cell damage - and in this case, lack of oxygen. Cells that die due to necrosis show a lower level of ATP - so it makes sense that the cell was trying to metabolize the remaining oxygen and ran out.

From here, you can see that the increase in Ca2+ ions leads to chain of events that eventually leads to necrosis. Ca2+ ions over a certain threshold inhibits the energy and respiratory processes. I guess the question is, what is stopping the neuron from trying to metabolize?

What I'm assuming is that it takes longer for the blood in the body to cool down, during which time the neurons can continue metabolizing. But when the temperature is suddenly lowered to 7C, metabolysis stops? But we couldn't just quickly lower the temperature of the body to 7C because it would take > 5 min for the blood to cool.

--
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net

I like
Re:well... by Tekoneiric · 2005-06-27 10:36 · Score: 1

I'm wondering if brain damage is less because of the lack of oxygen and more because of the build up of CO2 and various toxins that are normally carried away by the blood.

--
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
Re:well... by Norfair · 2005-06-27 10:37 · Score: 1

At first, i read that as 'who is going to hell for this procedure?'.
Re:well... by Master+of+Transhuman · 2005-06-27 10:37 · Score: 1

Resurrection of dead dogs has been done before, although I believe it was done differently.

IIRC cryonic experiments have shown brain damage is not significant for some time after clinical death although it is best minimized by supercooling the body as quickly as possible. Full cryonic suspension of a human body takes up to a week or more.

Brain damage is reduced by lowering body temperature, triggering Mammalian Dive Reflex which conserves body temperature to the heart and brain.

I believe there have been several cases of people drowning in extremely cold water circumstances who were retrieved within a half hour to an hour and were clinically dead for an hour or more before being resuscitated and not receiving significant brain damage.

This is a known effect that is now taken into account by rescue teams and hospitals. Drowning victims are not to be declared dead until they have been returned to full body temperature without resuscitation.

--
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Re:well... by Heliologue · 2005-06-27 10:41 · Score: 2, Funny

Give him a sedagive!
Re:well... by shawb · 2005-06-27 10:43 · Score: 1

Yes, the cold does prevent brain damage. The low temperature of the liquid slows down chemical reactions, so metabolism is essentially halted, resulting in no need for oxygen for the brain. There have been cases of people being submerged in freezing cold water for far over half an hour with no measurable brain damage. Hypothermia actually saved their mental facilities.

"Clinically dead" simply means that the heart is no longer moving, as opposed to "medically dead" in which the heart can be in fibrulation, where the chambers are not pumping in the proper pattern, so blood is not pushed through (hence "defibrulation" is the electrical shock to the heart that puts it back in the proper pattern, bringing you out of fibrulation.) Clinically dead is more severe than medically dead, but people could be kept around on life support systems even without a heart. I think we just don't do it.

Other details: salt water is used to prevent individual cells from being damaged due to two seperate processes: 1) lowers the freezing temperature of the solution, preventing ice crystals from forming which would lacerate individual cells. 2) Prevents the water from being osmotically drawn in and rupturing cells from the inside (osmosis being the process by which water enters the cell in such a way as to balance out the concentrations of ions on the inside and outside. This then puts pressure on the cell wall, much like a balloon being filled with water. Too much water, and *POP*

And another question asked frequently in the thread: how do they determine whether brain damage occured? Simple... the dog is euthanized (re-euthanized???) and then a necropsy is done, several laboratory techniques can then easilly show whether there was brain damage due to oxygen starvation. I believe in people the only way to authoritavely determine if a patient suffered from alzheimer's is to do a post-mortem examination. Anything else is just an educated guess based on symptoms, but there are other disorders which can mimic alzheimer's. Although new methods may have come about that I do not know of to test for alzheimer's in-vivo.

Yeah, the article was a little light on details, but that's what you'd expect from a news article that calls these "zombie dogs."

--
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Re:well... by Oxen · 2005-06-27 10:47 · Score: 1

actually, it was Scientific American, and it was written by Mark Roth, the lead investigator in the hydrogen sulfide experiment.

Article Summary

--
First you animate. Then you SUSPEND!!!
Re:well... by LurkerXXX · 2005-06-27 10:47 · Score: 3, Informative

Research/Teaching hospitals is where this would first be tried. And this isn't really the type of thing you could easily plan for to get prior consent.
What will most likely happen is a team will learn the procedure, then wait till their ER gets the right candidate for it. "Mrs Smith, your husband was shot multiple times with a shotgun during a robbery and his insides are shredded. It would take hours to repair and he *WILL* bleed out in the meantime. We simply can't pump enough blood in him to keep him alive. We do however have an experimental protocol we could try. We would replace his blood with ice-cold saline and put him into something like a hibernation state while we try to repair the damage, then replace his blood and restart his heart. Do you want us to try?"
Re:well... by toddles666 · 2005-06-27 10:49 · Score: 1

Mark Wahlberg is Satan? That explains a lot...
Re:well... by wildsurf · 2005-06-27 10:50 · Score: 1

The Navy might even be able to use it to bring sailors up from crippled subs. If you can get people into hibernation fast enough, and equalize the pressure inside and out of the body, you wouldn't even need to worry about dragging people straight up from the bottom. There would be no breathing to worry about, and if you had enought time, you could counteract any potential risk of the bends.

"The bends" are caused by nitrogen bubbles everywhere in the body, not just the bloodstream. Different body tissues absorb and release nitrogen at different rates; particularly slow are ligaments, joints and connective tissue, which can take many hours or even days to reach equilibrium. (Blood reaches equilibrium in a matter of minutes.) So blood replacement may prevent bubbles in the bloodstream, but would do nothing to prevent bubbles in even more dangerous places such as the spinal cord, where they can also cause paralysis or death.

--
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
Re:well... by Scudsucker · 2005-06-27 10:53 · Score: 1

No problem, now that the Iron Curtain has fallen they can just set up their hospitals next to the local Dominos.
Re:well... by Total_Wimp · 2005-06-27 10:57 · Score: 1

If your spouse/child/parent was almost certainly going to die, would you sign the papers for the highly experimental procedure that might save their life?

I would too.

3rd party consent shouldn't be a problem with this.
Re:well... by andreMA · 2005-06-27 11:17 · Score: 1

Ideally, you should try to drown in water of exactly the same salinity as human blood
Cool! I'll try that and get right back to you.
Well, after the coma thing.
Re:well... by king-manic · 2005-06-27 11:21 · Score: 1

Sure, as long as that person gets shot, and they accidentally bring him to this research facility instead of a hospital...

at the Umbrella Ashford medical center we offer the best medical treatment available to the poor and needy. Offfering emergency care to those who could not otherwise afford it. With the support of the federal and state governments we offer the latest advances in medical science to bring hope to the underprivliged.

All we ask is that the patients sign a all encompassing waiver and provide feedback on some of our cutting edge genetic and surgical treatments.

Umbrella is dedicated to providing care and support to all.

--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Re:well... by Epistax · 2005-06-27 11:26 · Score: 1

How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur?

I believe the problem with freezing a person is that their blood crystalizes if not frozen fast enough, which still circulates. This rips your system to shreds. Can someone back me up at least partially on this?
Re:well... by Raivein · 2005-06-27 11:50 · Score: 1

The article has been already published by scientific periodicals- see SCIENCE Vol. 308, issue 5721, pq. 518 for the full article on mice hibernation, and SCIENTIFIC AMERICA June 2005 for a useful overview of the entire subject.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/308/572 1/518 (requires account)

Simply, when oxygen levels are really low, cells shut down. When there is not enough O2 to live, but just enough for the body cells to detect, cells start producing lactic acid, free radicals, and other nasty stuff that eventually kills off your cells, usually 36 hours after you yourself have died. (Rigor mortis is when the muscles tense up because of lactic acid, like cramps after a hard run. When the cells die, they muscles relax.) If you just got the cells to shut down, the human is clinically 'dead' as in they are not breathing, but the cells are, if belonging to a dead person, not dying.

Basically, while you are 'dead', your individual cells are still alive, but they lack the oxygen they need for their metabolisms (because your not breathing). The cells keep trying to use oxygen-dependent methods of living because there still is a residue of oxygen in your blood, but not enough to sustain them. It's like running. When your heart can't supply enough oxygen to your legs, the muscles use another way of making energy that doesn't use oxygen, but produced lactic acid (the burning sensation in overworked muscles). The buildup of lactic acid eventually helps to kill the cells later as waste products build up.

But if you told all the cells to shut down everything, the cells would not be sucking desperately for oxygen, harming themselves, but simply doing nothing. You can do that by blocking oxygen receptors in the body. CO2 kills because it 1.) can't be used the way O2 is used, and 2.) takes up slots in hemoglobin that normally is taken up by O2, pushing out the good O2.

If that explanation was as bad as I thought, tell me to do it again and I will.

--
Love ya all> Out.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:54 · Score: 0

This sounds similar to what happens when you fall through ice. Up here in New England, we hear stories from time to time about people surviving quite a long time (hours) of clinical death after falling through ice. From Dr. Koop himself:

"It may be possible to revive a drowning victim even after a prolonged period of submersion, especially if the person was in very cold water." (http://www.drkoop.com/ency/93/000046.html)

That's supposed to be due to the cold water preventing brain damage--I wonder if that was the observation that kicked off this line of research.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:56 · Score: 0

Pittsburgh, PA with a trailing h - not Pittsburg.
Re:well... by tonygent · 2005-06-27 12:17 · Score: 1

This whole thing strikes me more as kids playing the "telephone" game in kindergarten than a legitimate news story.

The peer reviewed article at wkhealth.com states the the dogs were in full cardiac arrest for 60 minutes, and that only 1/2 of the dogs survived to 72 hours under intensive care. It does not state whether the dogs survived after the 72 hours in IC. This is not that different from someone falling into an icy lake and being revived an hour later to varying degrees of success.

Now the posted article states that the dogs were dead for 3 hours (triple what was stated above), and makes no mention of the 50% of dogs that weren't able to be revived.

Finally, through some leap in logic, Timothy posts "The technology will be tested on humans within the next year." This is a far cry from even the posted article which merely states: "Plans to test the technique on humans should be realised within a year".

Doesn't anyone RTFA anymore?
Re:well... by Fulg · 2005-06-27 12:31 · Score: 1

Umbrella is dedicated to providing care and support to all.

Aah, first thing that popped into my mind when reading the headline were the zombie dogs in Resident Evil on PS1... I'm quite surprised this didn't come up sooner!

Damn that was a great game (and movie).

--
gcc: no input sig
Re:well... by RedBear · 2005-06-27 12:34 · Score: 1

Yes, it is the temperature of the liquid used to replace the blood that prevents tissue and brain damage.

There are several documented cases of people, mostly children, being successfully resuscitated without any apparent brain damage after being "dead" for between 15 minutes and over an hour. This is after falling through the ice on a lake or river and drowning in near freezing cold water. The extremely cold water puts your body into hypothermic shock, the metabolic processes all shut down and you don't get brain damage because your brain isn't doing anything so it doesn't starve for oxygen and die.

The article has the facts but I'd say it's a bit light on professionalism and heavy on sensationalism. Repeatedly referring to the dogs as eerie zombies is retarded, as is the photo that was included with the article of a dog snarling and baring his fangs, thus referencing every scary dog-back-from-the-dead movie ever made. All the scientists did was simulate exactly what happens to people who drown in near zero degree water. They ran some almost freezing cold saltwater through the veins, which induced hypothermic shock and eventually "death", but it's more like hybernation.

The cold prevented the body from deteriorating while the dog was dead, then they put the blood back in, warmed everything up and gave the animal plenty of oxygen to work with as it warmed up, and restarted the heart with an electric shock. Nothing magical. Are the millions of heart-attack victims who have ever been jump-started all "zombies" now just because they were clinically dead for a few minutes? Are they all out wandering the streets being scary and eating brains? Sheesh.

If you'd read the whole article you would have noticed that they were making references to repairing wounded soldiers or ER patients. Nothing happened to the dogs, but if you came in with a gunshot wound and were dying or you actually died, they could use this very procedure on you to "preserve" you while they worked on you, then resuscitate you after they were done with the repairs. If they perfected this technique they could probably keep people in suspension for days, weeks, or even months while they did complex surgeries. A few years from now a procedure like this could end up saving your life.
Re:well... by Sylver+Dragon · 2005-06-27 12:36 · Score: 2, Informative

Just guessing out of my arse here, but...
I would guess that the reason for using the saline solutioon is two fold. First, cooling a body down to 7C quickly is kind of tough. If you do it from the outside in, the middle bits are going to take a while to cool.; whereas, if you use the pre-built distribution system of the body (vascular system) you can get all places cool faster. Second, the saline solution will have a lower freezing temperature, which means that it can be colder without forming ice crystals, and damaging cells as a result. Along with that, I would wonder if it doesn't increse the salinity of the rest of the water in the body, and keep that water from freezing in the process.

--
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:40 · Score: 0

"Sorry, but how exactly is this scary?"

Did you not see the picture at the top of the article? the dog is obviously vicious and hungry for human flesh!
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:46 · Score: 0

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved."

Impossible. If they were clinically dead, you could not bring them back to life; if you brought them "back" to life, they weren't dead. Specifically:

"Irreversibility is often cited as a key feature of death. By definition, a dead organism cannot be brought back to life; if it is, that would indicate that it had never been dead."
Re:well... by proverbialcow · 2005-06-27 12:48 · Score: 2, Funny

A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

What luck! I just happen to be...

*collapses on floor*

--
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:49 · Score: 0

Lets put astronauts in hibernation. Now long distrnace space travel is no problem. Just like the movie 2001.

Though, I think I like the hydrogen sulfide gas method to the blood draining method.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:52 · Score: 0

Sure. 1.5 Gigawatts!
Re:well... by Digital+Pizza · 2005-06-27 12:53 · Score: 1

A)I was not a trauma patient.
Your post, given the context, made it sound (to me) as if you were. My mistake then.

B)All medicine, indeed all of life, is a question of probabilities and trying to stack them in your favor. We do not have, and thus cannot rely on, foreknowledge.

Duh. I'm well aware of this.

Get used to this idea.

No need to be snide.

No one can be sure, ever, that they'll actually benefit more from a trial procedure (or any other) than from a traditional approach

And that's why trauma patients shouldn't be used as guinea pigs if there's a known, effective treatment. The ethic "First, do no harm" is taken pretty seriously.

--
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Re:well... by Xyrus · 2005-06-27 13:08 · Score: 2, Funny

Obligatory Monty Python Tasteless Joke:

You'll be stone dead in a moment.

On a related note, I went into cardiac arrest when I was 2 as a result of a bee sting at a park. After 10 minutes of CPR, a nurse who had been at the scene where this happened pronounced me dead (much to the dismay of my mother).

A couple minutes later while everyone was giving condoloensces to my distraught mother, someone noticed I had gone missing. I was over on the swings as if nothing had happened.

Later, at the hospital, the doctors ran a bunch of tests and concluded I was fine.

There are some funny things that happen in life. For everything else there's ZoMbIe DoGs!

~X~

--
~X~
Re:well... by WhyCause · 2005-06-27 13:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

Along with that, I would wonder if it doesn't increse the salinity of the rest of the water in the body, and keep that water from freezing in the process.

No can do, Boss. If the saline is not isotonic (same amount of electrolytes per volume as the cells/blood), you have worse problems than brain damage.

If the saline is hypotonic (less electrolytes per volume than the cells), then osmosis will drive water into the cells, eventually bursting them. ALL of them.

If the saline is hypertonic (more electrolytes per volume than the cells), then osmosis will drive water out of the cells, causing them to shrivel up and die. ALL of them.

No win either way.
Re:well... by dcam · 2005-06-27 13:18 · Score: 4, Funny

So what... they kill them, bring them back to life, and kill them again? That explains the concept of being given multiple sentences of death ;)

It could also be very convenient. Suppose not all the grieving relatives were able to make it to the execution. You could stage it again, possibly even closer to their homes. Think of the possibilities.

OK, I'll go sit in the corner and take my sense of humour with me.

--
meh
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-27 13:30 · Score: 1

You'll be stone dead in a moment.

Could well be. I said I got better, not well. Don't worry about being an insenstive clod, black humor helps keep me alive.

KFG
Re:well... by WormholeFiend · 2005-06-27 13:47 · Score: 1

Artificial blood is still experimental and the manufacturers havent worked out all the kinks yet, which means the victims are being used as guinea pigs.
Re:well... by RobertKozak · 2005-06-27 13:53 · Score: 1

Just like the movie 2001.

Good idea because we all know how well that turned out.

--
Bet this .sig looks familiar.
Re:well... by BurntNickel · 2005-06-27 14:05 · Score: 1

Too bad there isn't a +1 Correct Spelling mod.

--
And the knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them...
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-27 14:26 · Score: 1

. . .if there's a known, effective treatment.

I did not posit such a case. I spoke of that area of the medical map wherein is inscribed "Here there be dragons."

"First, do no harm"

Get thee hence and read Asimov's robot stories. You may be "aware," but the evidence suggests you do not understand.

KFG
Re:well... by LokiSnake · 2005-06-27 15:12 · Score: 0

There was also a similar article in SciAm on suspended animation.

The interesting thing in the articles was that when oxygen supply drops, cells would still try to metabolize, up until a certain oxygen concentration, then cells will begin going into a dormant state, and preserve itself.

By draining the blood and replacing it with other substances would instantly cut the oxygen supply to the required level for cell dormancy, and allow the cells to be preserved.
Re:well... by Gudlyf · 2005-06-27 15:13 · Score: 1

As long as the person voluteering is fully aware of all of his options, then perhaps you are correct. However, as in your case, I'd hope the person would be made aware that there is still that possibility they would live even without becoming a guinea pig.

--
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Re:well... by PMuse · 2005-06-27 15:17 · Score: 1

Only if I'm really there; it might be that I'm just seeing things. -- Things like . . . dead people.

--
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 15:20 · Score: 0

This article is not news.

A similar technique has been in use for neurosurgery for at least the last 7-8 years. The only thing that these guys seem to have done that's worth crowing about is get the length of time the brain is on ice up from 1 hour to 3.
Re:well... by taybin · 2005-06-27 15:20 · Score: 1

Man, that must have been a sucky job. Each week, getting another crate of puppies to kill and then unsuccessfully attempt to revive.
Re:well... by wattersa · 2005-06-27 15:40 · Score: 1

This is the single most informative post I have ever read on Slashdot. Thank you.
Re:well... by jesterzog · 2005-06-27 15:53 · Score: 1

I'm wondering if the US (or other countries) would allow those on death row to volunteer for such trials. I wouldn't want to see them forced into it, but allowing them to volunteer for these sorts of things could provide valuable research.

It might depend on exactly how you define the purpose of death row. In particular whether it's supposed to be entirely to do with punishment, or if some of it is related to victim's right of seeing justice done in any way.

We don't have the death penalty where I am, and personally I'm skeptical of its usefulness. I do know, however, that victims in general would complain very loudly if criminals were given an option that might let them off their sentance somehow in ways that were beyond their control.
Re:well... by rpresser · 2005-06-27 15:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

The Scientific American article says that when total anoxia (oxygen concentration less than 0.001 percent) is combined with low temperatures, metabolysis stops. The authors of this article were working with worms:

We have also shown in our work with C. elegans that the embryo's shift into suspended animation under anoxic conditions is not merely a passive result of their running out of oxygen but rather seems to be a purposeful mechanism. We identified two genes functioning during anoxia, but not hypoxia, that appear essential to arresting the embryo's cell cycle. ... These results suggest that ischemic damage can be avoided not only by increasing the oxygen available to cells, as conventional wisdom would suggest, but also by decreasing available oxygen. This idea may fly in the face of current medical practice, yet it has strong implications for preserving human tissues: it is difficult to keep an individual organ destined for transplantation oxygenated or to supply enough oxygen to the damaged tissues of injury victims, but it might be possible to decrease their available oxygen.

At the end of the article they describe the same work with dogs that the current story is describing (at Pittsburgh).
Re:well... by AoT · 2005-06-27 16:14 · Score: 1

They were probably loose anyways.

--
A blog about stuff.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 16:16 · Score: 0

Ok, why don't you start carrying around a card letting paramedics know you don't want experimental medicine, even if it's your best or only chance?
Re:well... by Gleng · 2005-06-27 16:18 · Score: 1

On a related note, I would like to voice my suggestion that someone drains all the blood out of Scrappy Doo, and replaces it with hydrochloric acid.

--
"Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
Re:well... by HeedlessYouth · 2005-06-27 17:06 · Score: 2, Informative

So is there a temperature limit for metabolizing?

What there is is a strong effect of temperature on most biochemical processes, including those reponsible for metabolism. We humans aren't intimately familiar with this effect because we maintain a relatively constant body temperature under normal conditions. But if you've ever seen a lizard or snake on a cold day (when they have a low body temperature) they're much slower than on a hot day. What you're seeing is the effects of temperature on the molecular motors that run the muscles. And if you measured the metabolic rate of a reptile, you'd see the same termperature effect - slower metabolism (less ATP consumed per minute) at low temperatures than high ones. For most physiological processes, including metabolism, rates drop by 2- to 3-fold for every 10 degree C drop in temperature. For a 30 degree C drop, that gives up to a 3×3×3 = 27-fold decrease - enough to make 2 hours at 7 degrees the equivalent of about 4-1/2 minutes at 37 degrees C.

Now, there may be other, regulatory (i.e. active) factors at work as well during this sort of dramatic (for mammals) temperature change that decrease metabolism even further. But a lot of it can be explained by this generic temperature effect.
Re:well... by mi · 2005-06-27 17:20 · Score: 1

Althought dogs are forgiving animals, I think they might hold a grudge if you killed them, and then brought them back to life.
Which is why a "Tripe Ration" is as essential as the "Wand of Undead Turning". Just throw the ration at the recovered (and still upset) dog, and after it devours it, it will be friendly again.
Your luck will still be low, however, so throw some gems to unicorns.

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:well... by Wraithlyn · 2005-06-27 18:28 · Score: 1

"Land of the Dead was shot in Toronto"

Yup... that beautiful arching atrium on the ground floor of "Fiddler's Green" is BCE Place, I used to work there. You can see the Hockey Hall of Fame in one shot. Lots of scenes shot underneath the Gardiner as well.

--
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
Re:well... by TheWormThatFlies · 2005-06-27 19:01 · Score: 1

Well, if I am going to die unless they try the fake blood, I don't think I'm going to be upset with them for trying it, even if I experience unpleasant side-effects afterwards. Possibly being sick or dead is better than definitely being dead. And somebody needs to be a guinea pig in order for the technology to get better; it may as well be me.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 20:05 · Score: 0

Abby Titmus?
Re:well... by QsD · 2005-06-27 21:56 · Score: 1

mmm... they don't actually let the animals die. They just bring the organism to 10% of it's metabolism: so their blood is still pumping and they are still breathing. not as miracelous as the title says :)
Re:well... by aurilieus · 2005-06-27 22:51 · Score: 1

Those have to be very Spiritually enlightened ones ..Almost Dead and Back to life ;-p
Re:well... by SpinyManiac · 2005-06-27 23:20 · Score: 1

I hate to be pedantic, but this is Slashdot.
It's Baron Victor Frankenstein.

--
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 23:25 · Score: 0

This world is mad!!!
and scientists are sick!!!

you take a dog, you kill him, weak up him with an electroshock and you are a scientist.. good!!!
following this way .. we will make the earth a bigger hell than it is... good...No moral .. no way!

Why doesn't he takes his fucking grandmother and try to wake up her??? probably she is dead, and if she is not dead wi kill her first.. it is funny!!!
Re:well... by ShrikeDOA · 2005-06-27 23:35 · Score: 1

I hate to make you look dumb, but Frederick is Victor's grandson.

--

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
Re:well... by aug24 · 2005-06-27 23:36 · Score: 1

P.S. I got better.

I'm glad you said that. Zombie dogs are bad enough, but the idea of dead people still posting to /. really fucks me up.

J.
(Any second now someone will post "I'm dead, you insensitive clod!")

--
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Re:well... by lucabrasi999 · 2005-06-28 00:23 · Score: 1

I hate to be pedantic, but it should be "Froaderick Fronkensteen".

Igor: Dr. Frankenstein...
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: "Fronkensteen."
Igor: You're putting me on.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."
Igor: Do you also say "Froaderick"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No..."Frederick."
Igor: Well, why isn't it "Froaderick Fronkensteen"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: It isn't; it's "Frederick Fronensteen."
Igor: I see.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You must be Igor. [He pronounces it ee-gor]
Igor: No, it's pronounced "eye-gor."
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: But they told me it was "ee-gor."
Igor: Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 01:05 · Score: 0

"Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." I think this means gunshot wounds etc.
-------------

You would of course be referring to the DOGS with these gunshot wounds etc. ?
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 01:17 · Score: 0

A multi-millionaire with a terminal disease, who chooses this procedure (that has had at least one success, albeit with dogs) over other cryonics facilities that have yet to successfully reanimate anyone?
Re:well... by lundbergaj · 2005-06-28 01:45 · Score: 1

I'd bet you could get those death row prisoners to volunteer if they'd be killed, brought back, and then allowed to live. Of course, this could lead to sentencing of the sort "Death, plus 3 life sentences", or even, "Death for each of the 7 homicides, plus a life sentence for each, all to be served consecutively". It would probably get good TV ratings at least.
Re:well... by elrous0 · 2005-06-28 02:36 · Score: 1

Isn't it usually grad students who "volunteer" to help the research?
Good point. But shouldn't we run the tests on people who matter too?

-Eric

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 03:21 · Score: 0

Get thee hence and read Asimov's robot stories. You may be "aware," but the evidence suggests you do not understand.
I didn't know near death experiences made people into pompous arrogant pricks. The parent was making a point about how doctors and people in the medical world follow the idea of First, do no harm. If you think you need to know obscure information on science fiction books written fifty years ago to understand concepts of health care brought about three thousand years ago, then the only thing about which you need to be aware is the world outside your mom's basement.

I love slashbots like you who engage other posters with hostility when they've only tried to engage you in thoughtful and progressive conversation.

Prick.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 03:25 · Score: 0

Many people believed that African Americans could not fly fighters

Ah, Ignorance!
Re:well... by Sylver+Dragon · 2005-06-28 03:41 · Score: 1

Good point, I hadn't thought about that. So I guess I'll just go with my first guess.

--
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 03:49 · Score: 0

This is the reason I trust doctors. Over the years of human history, we've learned at very deep levels the exact processes at work in the human body. We understand what makes human life work, and this knowledge is one of our greatest achievements.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 04:01 · Score: 0

Sometimes I'd prefer a -1, Spelling Nazi. You people take honest spelling mistakes too damn seriously.
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 05:15 · Score: 0

we can rebuild him. We have the technology.
Re:well... by Sierpinski · 2005-06-28 07:12 · Score: 1

The are billions of people of Earth, and they gov'y knows where to find the ones who won't be noticed... i.e. prostitutes etc.

Hey, I notice prostitutes!

--
And they said zombies weren't real!
Re:well... by FreakyControl · 2005-06-28 08:03 · Score: 1

Not to be nit-picky, but lightning rods actually prevent lightning from striking. Metal spikes, which are what people commonly think of as lighning rods, attract lightning. This was actually the original design by Franklin. Tesla realized the design flaw and came up with the design used today that prevents lightning from striking.

See article.

But yeah...Frankenstein indeed. One wonders if they were inspired by such things. After all, science fiction does tend to become science fact.
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-28 08:47 · Score: 1

The stories in question were written specifically to explore the ramifications of the doing "no harm."

It turns out that the simple statement, as such simple statements often are, is far more complicated that appears on the surface.

In my specific case the doctors were, given the knowledge available to them at the time, presented with the choice of deliberate straving me, or allowing me to starve:

Which way "does no harm?"

In fact, they took a third course, they fed me a banana. . .and waited to see if it would kill me.

It did not, and so medical science was advanced, albeit at the risk of my life, in order to save it, and the lives of all of those who came after me, without inordinate risk.

KFG
Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 10:37 · Score: 0

they also stated on another site about this zombie creation, that they use 100% pure oxygen when they zap them back to life.
Re:well... by wattersa · 2005-06-28 13:08 · Score: 1

this info inspired me to write this
Re:well... by kfg · 2005-06-28 13:29 · Score: 1

. . .the idea of dead people still posting to /. really fucks me up.

You have something against Chicago voters, you insensitive clod? :)

KFG
Re:well... by aug24 · 2005-06-28 19:00 · Score: 1

Nice gag. Knew someone'ld come up with a good un. ;-)

J.

--
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Re:well... by juhaz · 2005-06-29 18:12 · Score: 1

Doctors are re-animating people after temporary purposely induced clinical death each day, it's called organ transplant surgery, and no, it's not particularly questionable by most people.

This is just logical extension that allows longer operations that would otherwise kill the patients.
Re:well... by juhaz · 2005-06-29 20:15 · Score: 1

Not to be nit-picky, but lightning rods actually prevent lightning from striking.

That's probably not true to any significant extent. Any kind of conductive lightning rod, no matter the shape, attracts it somewhat, simply by skipping bit of highly inconductive air and so offering path of least resistance.

See article.

Did you see it yourself? Because it doesn't imply any kind of repulsion (even though Teslas patent grant does), much less absolute prevention, and quite the opposite, links to few recent studies that say that the blunt tipped rods indeed do get hit more often than the sharp ones.

I effects other than resistance and carrying the current safely away when they eventually DO get hit are significant with either kind. Luckily enough, that's also the functionality the frankenstein depends on, not necessarily attracting, but just getting the power to machine eventually :)
Re:well... by Anarcho-Goth · 2005-07-08 16:06 · Score: 1

no, it was spelled the same, just pro-nounced differently.

Blücher!

--
I hate Liberals and Conservatives.
If you are a Liberal or a Conservative, then HAVE A NICE DAY!
Courage.

Brrraaaaiiiinnnnssss!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 07:59 · Score: 2, Funny

The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

.. and after the testing they will become slashdot editors.
[segue: See the new George A. Romero movie LAND OF THE DEAD! It rocks, baby!]

Awesome! by falzer · 2005-06-27 07:59 · Score: 0, Redundant

Awesome!

death and taxes by NegativeOneUserID · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 5, Funny

Ok, looks like taxes are the only sure bet left.

Re:death and taxes by ericspinder · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

No, It'll be death by taxes, I'll take a chunk of money to live forever.

--
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Re:death and taxes by arose · 2005-06-27 08:08 · Score: 1

I think you can avoid taxes for "a couple of hours".

--
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Re:death and taxes by The+Analog+Kid · 2005-06-27 08:13 · Score: 1

Looks like you won't be able to get a one up by having unpaid taxes on the government anymore by dying.
Re:death and taxes by lightknight · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 1

Yeah, right. Tell the government you're rich and are planning on skipping the country, see if they leave you alone for more than 10 minutes.

--
I am John Hurt.
Re:death and taxes by Rakshasa+Taisab · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 1

With this procedure, even taxes are avoidable!

--
- These characters were randomly selected.
Re:death and taxes by aiabx · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 3, Funny

Like Hotblack Desatio, you can now take a year off dead for tax reasons.
-aiabx

--
Just this guy, you know?
Re:death and taxes by mapmaker · 2005-06-27 08:41 · Score: 4, Funny

Ok, looks like taxes are the only sure bet left.
That's how you can tell these zombie scientists are liberals. Republican scientists would have tackled taxes first.
Re:death and taxes by OglinTatas · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 1

That was settled about 2000 years ago... the same long haired radical who raised Lazarus from the dead said "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's"

--
More music, fewer hits
Re:death and taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:06 · Score: 0

Well... resurection by time-travelling cryosurgeon *is* exactly as likely as "god did it".
Re:death and taxes by StandardDeviant · 2005-06-27 09:22 · Score: 1

I don't know, they all seemed to get real lathered up over the Florida vegetable crop a few months ago.

--

News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Re:death and taxes by Dan+D. · 2005-06-27 09:47 · Score: 1

Exactly, we continually increase the size of government taking tax money away to keep other people alive. If they can't be bothered to figure out how to resurrect themselves then I can't be bothered to pay my hard earned cash to have the government do it for them!

--
People who quote themselves bug the crap out of me -- Me.
Re:death and taxes by dynamo · 2005-06-27 10:00 · Score: 1

Yeah, they would have figured out how to tax the dead.
Re:death and taxes by macshit · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 1

Er, I think the IRS eventually gets what it wants much of the time, but the emphasis is on "eventually."

[my Mom is a former revenooer... those armed raids are preceded by a lot of paperwork! :-]

--
We live, as we dream -- alone....

It bothers me... (drudge) by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 1, Insightful

on some level it really bothers me that slashdot carries some of the same stories as the drudge report. On another level it bothers me that the drudge report has these stories FIRST.

(sigh)

Ralston-Purina has responded by rebug · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 5, Funny

New Gravy Brains(TM) brand dog food has the brain flavor your zombie dog craves.

--

there's more than one way to do me.

Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by bladesjester · 2005-06-27 08:13 · Score: 1

Somehow I think my journal entry should be pointed out again for this article =]

--
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by Knightfall · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 1

So what can you use to clean soda out of an LCD monitor? .... first time a joke has made me spew in a long time ... kudos to you.

--

Knightfall
Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by RobFrontier · 2005-06-27 10:22 · Score: 1

Since I work for the company I feel compelled to correct. It is no longer Ralston Purina. We are now Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, a division of Nestlé USA, a division of Nestlé S.A.. We merged with Nestlé 3 years ago.
Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by glenebob · 2005-06-27 11:40 · Score: 1

That's good, because I heard zomby dogs prefer iced tea...
Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by ai-rupe · 2005-06-27 15:20 · Score: 1

Mmm, Nestlé. This can only mean one thing.. chocolate covered BRAAAAAIINS!
Re:Ralston-Purina has responded by madprof · 2005-06-27 21:15 · Score: 1

That kill babies in the third world! ;-)

Zombies by TimeTraveler1884 · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 1, Redundant

I for one, welcome our new resident-evil canine-zombie overlords.

Re:Zombies by Slack3r78 · 2005-06-27 08:59 · Score: 1

Zombie dogs?

YES! IRL Quake is one step closer!!

Not On Me. by ntsucks · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 0

This seems too far fetched to be real. I would not want to be the first human trial.

--
Those who can do. Those who can't sue.

Re:Not On Me. by Suicyco · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

You would rather die?
Re:Not On Me. by fdrake76 · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 5, Funny

This seems too far fetched to be real.
From what I understand, the dogs can't fetch very far either.
Re:Not On Me. by 1967mustangman · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

well you would be dead so as long as they don't kill you to try it on you what could it hurt?

--
Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
Re:Not On Me. by metlin · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 1

Ironically, the quote at the bottom of the page says -

God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein

Hmm, perhaps not, after all.
Re:Not On Me. by JHromadka · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 1

This seems too far fetched to be real. I would not want to be the first human trial.
Right, because the consequence would be, um, that you stay dead.

--
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
Re:Not On Me. by SailorFrag · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 1

I think he's afraid of possible side effects.

"We don't go to Ravenholm anymore."
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 0

Not really ironic since Einstein was an atheist, and that quote refers to his view that nature(god) was not random.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one." Einstein
Re:Not On Me. by brajesh · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can't find anything on the web corroborating this story. Even the official site of Safar Center for Resuscitation Research, the institute metioned in TFA has nothing about this.

--
95% of all sigs are made up.
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 0

You would rather die?

You wouldn't?
Re:Not On Me. by northcat · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 1

Please RTFA before making such idiotic comments. Noone or nothing was brought back from the dead. What they did do was keep the dogs in "dead" state for 3 hours by replacing their blood with an ice cold salt solution and then put the blood back in and bring them back to life. In other words, they were able to "kill" living and healthy dogs (by replacing their blood with salt solution), keep them dead for three hours and then bring them back to "life" (put the blood back in). Of course grandparent doesn't want this to be done to him. He doesn't want to be "killed" and then brought back to life - he's afraid that something might go wrong, and rightfully so. They are not doing this on dead things - they are doing this on alive and healthy beings (not that I'm necessarily against it).
Re:Not On Me. by Dominic+Burns · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 1

"You would rather die?"

Who wouldn't?

It's the next big thing, dude!

Anybody that's anybody's doing it!
Re:Not On Me. by northcat · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 1

RTFA, will you? What they did was kill the dogs by replacing their blood with a salt solution and then bring them back to life by putting the blood back in and giving them an electric shock. And in human testing they are going to test on alive humans by killing them and bringing them back to life. No one is bringing dead people back to life. There is still a long long way to go before we can do that.
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:41 · Score: 0

Please _understand_ the FA before you spew such nonsensical idiocy.

The point of this would be to allow a doctor to repair someone who is dying _rapidly_.

Therefore, if you're dying of e.g. a gunshot wound, if your choices are:

Die.
Undergo this procedure.

Which would you choose? This was the point the poster to whom you made your idiotic reply was making.

We all know they're not talking about reviving Benjamin Franklin, you rocket surgeon.
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:45 · Score: 0

You left off the end of that quote.

"You may call me an agnostic"
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 0

I'm suicidal you insensitive clod!
Re:Not On Me. by metlin · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

I know, I merely was saying how that quote fit in this context - nothing more.

Wasn't looking to start a believer/non-believer flamewar, mate.
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 0

Actually, yes. Shocking, I know, but my life sucks enough as it is. It's only going to get worse when I start jumping people to eat their brains.
Re:Not On Me. by Suicyco · 2005-06-27 09:09 · Score: 1

Why dont you RTFA? The uses of this on humans is not to KILL them and then reanimate them for no reason. The use for this is to stop somebody from dying from things like a gunshot wound and stabbings, any sort of heavy blood loss. On humans this is really only applicable to KEEPING PEOPLE FROM DYING.

Jesus. Who is the idiot? Tell me once you've RTFA.
Re:Not On Me. by Johnny+Mnemonic · 2005-06-27 09:20 · Score: 1

You would rather die?
There are things worse than death. I would consider waking up after losing 100 IQ points to be one of them (due to not all of my neurons thawing out). For instance.

--

--
$tar -xvf .sig.tar
Re:Not On Me. by srleffler · 2005-06-27 09:35 · Score: 1

More specifically, Einstein was expressing his discomfort with the inherent, non-deterministic randomness that occurs in Quantum Mechanics. It is noteworthy that Einstein is now well established to have been wrong on this point. God, in fact, does play dice.
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:36 · Score: 0

doesn't frozen blood tend to have negative effects on the blood vessels? maybe they're replacing it with the saline to prevent that type of damage as they put the dogs into a hypothermia-induced hibernation state?

just an idea, not sure about it.
Re:Not On Me. by SpyPlane · 2005-06-27 09:42 · Score: 1

Really?

http://www.safar.pitt.edu/content/programs/safar/h s_sa4.html

They talk about the program right there. It took me 2-clicks to get there from your link. I agree they don't go into a lot of details, but they explicitly talk about reviving dogs.

--
"We need a fourth law of Robotics: Stop Fingering My Wife"
Re:Not On Me. by northcat · 2005-06-27 11:23 · Score: 1

I was talking about the lab tests, jackass, not the practical uses of this. Read this sentence and again and try to think what it implies to your post and my grandparent's post. Idiot.
Re:Not On Me. by northcat · 2005-06-27 11:26 · Score: 1

Read my reply to the other poster.
Re:Not On Me. by Suicyco · 2005-06-27 12:09 · Score: 1

Oh, gotcha. I'm supposed to know you were referring to lab tests, not the article. Then you slag me for not reading the article, which I did - and posted something relevant to the article. LOL. It must be great being you.
Re:Not On Me. by Shajenko42 · 2005-06-27 12:10 · Score: 1

"Einstein would be spinning in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." - Chairman Shengi Yang
Re:Not On Me. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 15:32 · Score: 0

it's fucking awesome being me. A-W-E-S-O-M-E.

and since you actually use "LOL" it must suck being you.

And after that... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:00 · Score: 0

When will they roll this tech out for plants? I want my zombie peanut butter!

Who are they going to test it on? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

Who would sign up for the first test? It seems like a neat idea, but I wouldn't want to go first.

zombies by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

I for one welcome our new zombie dog overlords.

Oh no! by zalas · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Oh man... I can see the flood of Resident Evil jokes now...

Re:Oh no! by TykeClone · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

First it's zombie dogs, then it's zombie people...

--
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:Oh no! by rlp · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 4, Funny

OK - sponsored by Umbrella Corp. and Union Aerospace Corp.

--
[Insert pithy quote here]
Re:Oh no! by Refrag · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1

No, you can't! If you could, you would have posted a few. :p

--
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Re:Oh no! by Adrilla · 2005-06-27 08:26 · Score: 2, Funny

Well the dog in the pic does look disturbingly close to the dogs in the original PS1 game. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go find out where the hell I can get my hands on some green herbs.

(warning: marijuana jokes bound to follow.)

--

"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Re:Oh no! by JuzzFunky · 2005-06-27 12:47 · Score: 1

I for one welcome our new Zombie Dog Overlords!

--
Unexpect the expected!
Re:Oh no! by aircheck · 2005-06-27 16:06 · Score: 1

Don't panic, people! The Bravo Team has been sent to stop these ungodly experiments. Although we haven't heard from them since their chopper crashed ...

brains... Brains... BRAINS!! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

George Romero would be proud.

Re:brains... Brains... BRAINS!! by lupinstel · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 0

Romero zombies, and all the previous movie zombies never wanted brains. The "Brains" zombies come from Return of the Living Dead which is a parody of Romero and 1970's/1980's zombie movies. One must have their facts straight to be prepared for the inevitable invasion of the zombie horde.

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.
Re:brains... Brains... BRAINS!! by raider_red · 2005-06-27 08:35 · Score: 1

I thought Romero's movie *was* the parody. I can never keep the order straight though.

--
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.

NOT zombies by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

The article is obviously biased against this research, they are not zombie dogs, they were simply revived after being suspended for a while. 'revived without brain damage' and 'zombie' are quite different.

huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

What's "zombie" about it?

I'm scared though.

Big Deal by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 5, Funny

I've heard stories of Keith Richards doing this sort of thing since the '70s.

Re:Big Deal by JordanH · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 5, Funny
- I've heard stories of Keith Richards doing this sort of thing since the '70s.
Oh, so that's what happened. Do you know when the plan to revive him?
Re:Big Deal by Frumious+Wombat · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 1

Nah. The revival process would throw his rhythm off.

--
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
Re:Big Deal by PornMaster · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh, I thought they just replaced his blood with gin, and left him at a normal temperature.

--
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Re:Big Deal by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:41 · Score: 0

Keith Richards cannot be killed by conventional weapons!

Casualties by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 0

We have _NO_ casualties in Iraq ...

but are they really zombie dogs? by talenos · 2005-06-27 08:01 · Score: 1

But do they want to eat your brains!? That is the real test of a zombie dog. Also if the only way to kill them is by a shot to the head.

Re:but are they really zombie dogs? by iamwahoo2 · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

Well, look at the dog in the picture and you be the judge.
Re:but are they really zombie dogs? by BoomerSooner · 2005-06-27 13:34 · Score: 1

No shit. What, they couldn't find any cocker spaniel pictures? Some crazy wolf looking dog with its teeth bared really makes me want to bring that one back from the dead.

I can see it now.... by BrainSurgeon · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 1

...This will be the next George A. Romero movie!

--
"It's not rocket science, Smithers! It's only brain surgery!" --Mr. Burns

No brain damage by pestilence669 · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 1

Hmm. How can they really tell? They're dogs, after all. Don't doctors tell us such indisputable facts like how MDMA (Ecstasy) creates holes in your brain?

I can't tell if this is a good thing or not. Why would you want to freeze someone indefinately? Demolition Man wasn't THAT great of a movie.

Re:No brain damage by ScentCone · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

You'd have to really know a dog well (and observe its sensory and motor skills, note its emotional stability, and have a sense of its habits) before subjecting it to this sort of process. And then you'd have to pursue the dog's regular activities afterwards and note the changes. Anyone who has lived with a bright, energetic dog can tell you instantly if the animal is "off" in some way. Just like you'd notice it in your child. Now, longer-term issues, who knows. Like, would some degenerative, trauma-induced thing (something Alzheimers-ish) kick in later? No way to know. But no matter how good your brain scans or other imaging techniques may be, these are complex animals, and long-time handler/owner could tell you if you'd dropped a couple of circuits along the way.

Why would you want to freeze someone indefinately? Let's go for a Sci-Fi answer since we're dealing with a near-Sci-Fi topic. Let's say that you've got the aging examples of some really prize breedings from a particular bloodline (I'm talking dogs here). And then, something ugly not unlike hoof-and-mouth, or bird flu starts turning in a species-specific pandemic. If I were a breeder that had been perfecting a bloodline for 50 years, I'd seriously consider taking a couple of those dogs and letting them have A Big Nap.

For a lot of breeders, they love the individual dogs, but their truly beloved "pet" is the bloodline out of which they spring. Generations (of human lives) go into creating something as unique as a specialized dog (or bull, or chicken), so ways to put them on ice for later revival once a viral or other threat has been understood (or a vaccine developed) could be very compelling.

I'd say all the same things about humans, but I'd be very Politically Incorrect at that point, so of course I won't.

--
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Re:No brain damage by Infinityis · 2005-06-27 08:49 · Score: 1

Geez, I knew DMCA had bad side effects but holes in the brain...what kinds music are they trying to protect?
Re:No brain damage by BewireNomali · 2005-06-27 08:55 · Score: 1

completely off topic, but in school I was a research associate on a study testing the effects of benzodiazepines on movement disorders like tourette's. All our subjects submitted to two MRIs, one before the study and one after.

We had a good number of ecstasy users in our grouping. ALL of them had brain lesions. Most were small black dots; some were a bit bigger. Correlation does not imply causation, and we assumed the brain lesions to be consistent amongst the other subjects, all of whom had tourette's. No dice.

--
un burrito me trampeó.
Re:No brain damage by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 0

It's a good point. Something that is rarely talked about is that a large number of extended hypothermia survivors have problems with severe depression. I used to know a guy that at one point was the longest survivor, was under water the longest, without brain damage. The problem was he had severe depression and several years after I lost touch with himn he committed suicide. Brain chemistry is a delicate thing. Just because the brain scan looks normal and the rat can still can run the maze doesn't mean he's 100%. It's worth it in life or death proceedures but without a solid history of successes in extreme cases it would be a bad idea to use it when there are other options.
Re:No brain damage by catbutt · 2005-06-27 09:55 · Score: 1

For your example, couldn't you just freeze some sperm and eggs and such and accomplish the same thing more easily?
Re:No brain damage by ScentCone · 2005-06-27 10:22 · Score: 1

For your example, couldn't you just freeze some sperm and eggs and such and accomplish the same thing more easily?

You sure could, and many breeders already do exactly that. More with the stud's sperm than the bitch's eggs, though. For the males, they call it being "collected," and that way a breeder can have his recipe available at a moment's notice when the prospective dam is shown to be ovulating. This avoids flying dogs all of the country, or just having bad luck with doing it The Old Fashioned Way (which, with dogs, is actually rather rough on everybody involved, and not even a drink in advance).

But the funny thing about breeding mammals (most critters, no doubt) is that even repeat breedings of the same two dogs can produce wildly different litters. The odds of particular dominant and recessive genes expressing themselves (in color, for example) are the same for any give puppy, but the actual output (of say, 4 to 10 puppies) can produce some surprising trends towards or away from the statistical expectations.

Believe me, breeders that have produced a real gem are seriously thinking about cloning. But right now, if you've got a great dog, you're better off repeating a breeding of that dog's parents than you are breeding that dog in hopes of having another just like it. It's a pretty fascinating world, and the people who are way into are both a little bit nuts, and amazingly patient at the same time. A lot of heartache goes hand in hand with the process, and hence you get people who shift their devotion to the breed and away from a particular animal. It's too hard, otherwise.

--
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Re:No brain damage by ElizaYikes · 2005-06-27 10:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yeah, there's even more heartache for all of the not-so-perfectly-bred animals who die in animal shelters because people buy animals from breeders. Personally, I don't think that breeding of cats and dogs should be allowed until there are no unwanted animals in shelters.
Re:No brain damage by ScentCone · 2005-06-27 11:19 · Score: 1

Yeah, there's even more heartache for all of the not-so-perfectly-bred animals who die in animal shelters because people buy animals from breeders. Personally, I don't think that breeding of cats and dogs should be allowed until there are no unwanted animals in shelters.

For this, I blame idiots. Idiot would-be owners that can't think beyond the immediate pleasure of picking up that puppy at the best price they can find, and (much worse) idiot factory-scale breeders who should know better than to produce dogs for cheap sale to prospective owners who clearly shouldn't have them.

The only way we get healthy, well-tempered dogs free of inbred congenital problems is through careful breeding. My breeder either finds a good home for every dog, or keeps and loves any that aren't placed. But people stand in line (for months) for those dogs because of their stellar talents, health, and brain power. Many of these owners also adopt sub-par rescue dogs from shelters.

Honest, ethical breeders are not part of the problem you describe.

--
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Re:No brain damage by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:15 · Score: 0

What do you expect? After something like that, you know you're never going to do anything nearly as cool again. Kinda puts a damper on things.

That's why I'm glad nothing good's happened to me.
Re:No brain damage by The+One+and+Only · 2005-06-27 13:39 · Score: 1

But doesn't all that selective breeding lead to decreased genetic variation and all of the problems that entails? I've always wondered about that.

--
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Re:No brain damage by ScentCone · 2005-06-27 14:29 · Score: 1

But doesn't all that selective breeding lead to decreased genetic variation and all of the problems that entails? I've always wondered about that.

Well, selective is the key word, here. Horrible genetic problems usually result from lazy (read: convenient) breeding. Meaning, people who don't care will breed dogs to other geographically (or genetically) nearby dogs. It's cheap, it's easy, and it results in ugly, stupid, poorly structured, short-lived, ill-tempered, disease-ridden dogs. Serious breeders "outcross" with great care to mix the elements of more far-flung populations. This, combined with some "line" breeding (where you reinforce some of your own line a generation or two down) makes for some good results if you choose carefully.

As silly as dog shows seem, they are opportunities to meet other breeders, look for dogs in your breed that are ideal examples (relative to the formal breed standard), and the shows filter out the poorly formed dogs.

For a popular breed (in my case, say German Shorthaired Pointers), there are enough quality breeders, and the occasional introduction of some DNA from similar dogs (say, English Pointers) to keep the breed genetically diverse and healthy. But it's only as good as the breed organization/club and the serious breeders who truly dedicate their lives to it.

Many breeds have been almost completely ruined by puppy mills producing litters to sell on the cheap. Their DNA pools are highly isolated, or too shallow. It's painful.

--
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.

June 27th by wzeallor · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 1

Is the new April 1st. We should throw a party!

Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 5, Informative

The Russians did the same thing in 1940.

Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 0

Yeah, and in their country, zombie dogs create U.S. scientists.
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by double-oh+three · 2005-06-27 08:31 · Score: 1

Is it just me or is every big scientific breakthrough we're making an 'already been done by the Russians' discovery?

--
"For years, I struggled with reality... but I'm happy to say I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 0

that's a WWII propaganda film you moron
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 5, Funny

If I remember the old joke right* :

Monday: U.S. scientists announce a new discovery.
Tuesday: Pravda reports that Soviet scientists discovered it 20 years ago.
Thursday: German engineers invent a device that puts the discovery to use.
Friday: Japan exports the device to the U.S.

If only I could remember what happened on Wednesday...

* Last heard this one back in the early 1980's, if that helps put the stereotypes in context.
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Rude+Turnip · 2005-06-27 09:03 · Score: 5, Funny

Right, but in 1940 they were still the Soviet Union. So, technically, dogs created zombie scientists.

--
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by kitzilla · 2005-06-27 09:11 · Score: 1

Yes, in Soviet Russia, zombie dogs YOU.

--
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:25 · Score: 0

...that happens to be true you retard. Did someone revive you?
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by hackstraw · 2005-06-27 09:31 · Score: 1

The Russians did the same thing in 1940.

Yeah, but these guys now own the copyright and they can renew and resell this to people for ever. Its not who does it first, its who owns it now.
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:33 · Score: 0

Okay, so I take it that you can provide some links to credible information about this supposed technique?
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by gad_zuki! · 2005-06-27 09:54 · Score: 1

That is largely considered a propaganda piece. Its fake. Hell, look at the production quality, the decapitated dog's head looks like something out of a 50's B-movie. Ed Wood made more believable film.
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:54 · Score: 3, Funny

If only I could remember what happened on Wednesday...

Profit?

*ducks*

Magazine Article.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:02 · Score: 0

This was in this month's New Scientist, I believe.

Re:Magazine Article.. by TheKidWho · 2005-06-27 09:25 · Score: 1

And in last months scientific American

backwards by cliffyqs · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 1

Wow! they actually did it before there was a massive public outcry about whether it was ethical or humane or whatever. One step for someone...

--
I have nothing witty to fill this space with yet.

Cool, zombie dogs! by DMNT · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 1

Now we have dogs running wild howling "Brains, Braaaaaaains" to the moon. Haven't the scientists' done their homework and watched B class movies when they were in college? Zombies always turn up against their masters.

Anyway, now I have to abstain from sex before they've destroyed all the zombies. Thanks a lot, guys!

Some zombie survival tips

--
?SYNTAX ERROR

Re:Cool, zombie dogs! by EvilTwinSkippy · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 1

Anyway, now I have to abstain from sex before they've destroyed all the zombies.
Methinks you've been on Usenet a bit too long...

--
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Re:Cool, zombie dogs! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 0

Anyway, now I have to abstain from sex before they've destroyed all the zombies. Thanks a lot, guys!

Yay! Slashdotters are saved from the zombie dogs!

quick get the slashdot name by truckaxle · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 2, Funny

may I be the first to welcome our zombie dog overloads seriously I need to get the slash name zombiedog

Brains!? by Zediker · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 5, Funny

BRA.... errr... BONES!!!

--
I love to slaughter the english language.

Re:Brains!? by mrscorpio · 2005-06-27 09:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Brayne Strips!

Dogs don't know it's not brains!
Re:Brains!? by AgentPhunk · 2005-06-27 13:56 · Score: 2, Funny

Rumor has it that the first human trials were already secretely performed on vegetarian hippies living in San Francisco.
Upon resurrection they just moaned:

GRRRRRAAAAIIINNNSSSS.

gitmo-job or outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 0

blood was drained and replaced by a cold, saline liquid. A couple of hours, their blood was replaced, and an electric shock brought them back to life with no brain damage. The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

will it be a gitmo-job or are the nasty bits involved in the human testing to be exported to countries like egypt?

Dear Mister Romero... by GPLDAN · 2005-06-27 08:03 · Score: 3, Funny

From the Desk of Paramount Studios:

George, baby, love that flick in the theaters now. Yeah, brilliant baby, that whole cpaitalist pig dog thing, and the gore, man you are the best...

George, baby, I was wondering if we could take lunch next week with you and Stephen. Yeah, we got this new story based on real life, we think it's right up your alley...

Re:It bothers me... (drudge) by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 0

http://science.slashdot.org/submit.pl

Submit your own fucking stories, or quit biatching.

--
Slashdot has recently added a 20 minute posting block between comments labled "anonymous". So much for trying to have a conversation without logging in.

The surgery is for the pre-hibernation damage by bensyverson · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

I think what they mean is that once the subject is revived, they can repair whatever damaged parts caused them to hibernate the subject in the first place. That was my read on it, given the emphasis on battlefield injuries and casualties. However, the text is not very clear, and probably written in haste.

-ben

Re:The surgery is for the pre-hibernation damage by jonored · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

Actually, before the subject is revived - while they're in this state, everything is much easier to handle, no blood gushing out at you, etc. if you make an error, and you've got quite a bit longer to fix the trouble before you have to revive them.

Odd, though, the way this reminds me of the immortality tricks of heinlein's "methluselah's children"...

How much? by doc_pez · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 0, Troll

How many people working at the DMV do they have to liquify to make an ounce of this stuff?

--
Fat chicks need love, too. But they gotta pay. - Quagmire

Been done... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 0

They were basically copying 2 of the greatest movies EVER; Pet Cemetary. Oh and don't forget Pet Cemetary 2. They are both right up there with Total Recall.

Re:Been done... by stratjakt · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1

Sematary

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

Resident Evil? by j_cavera · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 1

Any noticable change in the dog's personalities? Or perhaps appetites? Any develop a taste for BRAAAINS? Dammit these are things you don't just mess without some precautions!

--
#include "humorous_pop_culture_reference.h"

I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:04 · Score: 3, Funny

I Volunteer, Bring me back when being 26, working at helpdesk and living with your parents dosent make me a looser.

Re:I Volunteer by feyhunde · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

Sorry, heat decay will set in first.

--
I'd say more, but my guild is raiding.
Re:I Volunteer by the+grace+of+R'hllor · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

God damn you, you just described me perfectly. Of course, I'm only staying home 'cause I'm still in college.
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:36 · Score: 0

I am 26 with a decent job and moved out of my parents 1.5 years ago. Now they're divorced and my dad is staying with me in my studio apartment.
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:52 · Score: 0

Of course, I'm only staying home 'cause I'm still in college.

Aren't we all?
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:57 · Score: 0

a looser what? a looser dosent?
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:06 · Score: 0

Yes My grammer sucks, thank you.

I'll add it to my list things that make me feel bad about myself.
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:40 · Score: 0

So you want it to be permanent death then?
Re:I Volunteer by soft_guy · 2005-06-27 10:05 · Score: 1

Loser.

--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Re:I Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:18 · Score: 0

you've just described 1/3 of slashdot..

I Volunteer, Bring me back when being [mid 20's], [insert entry level job/not working] and living with your [insert relative] dosent make me a looser.

Attn: Postal Workers... by sl8763 · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 5, Funny

The Good: Zombie dogs are much slower than the normal kind.

The Bad: Normal dogs will not attempt to eat your juicy, delicious brain.

Re:Attn: Postal Workers... by Phleg · 2005-06-27 08:41 · Score: 1

Zombie dogs are much slower than the normal kind.

You've never played a survival horror game, have you?
.

--
No comment.
Re:Attn: Postal Workers... by orfanotna · 2005-06-27 10:42 · Score: 1

My regular dog attempts to eat my juicy delicious brain on a regular basis.

Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

I really didn't need that bloody Cujo-esque picture to go with that article, especially when it's late at night and I'm five minutes off of going to bed.

I can't wait by nizo · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 5, Funny

The picture that comes with the article sure makes this whole process look really appealing. It reminds me of the picture that the local news station shows when there is any asteroid in the news (a huge moon-sized rock hitting the earth). Aren't stock pictures great?

--
I Am My Own Worst Enemy

Re:I can't wait by chuck · 2005-06-27 08:55 · Score: 1

And you have to admit, it's impressive they even have a stock picture of a zombie dog!

--
My Freakin Blog
Re:I can't wait by mfh · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

Aren't stock pictures great?
I think they tend to create more news than they really should. It's problematic and yet commonplace at the same time to have strange stock pictures put a spin on a relatively benign story. Just because a zombie dog gets a second chance at life -- does the stock picture have to really be of a dog that looks like it's being provoked by an iron pipe? Only in stories about zombie dogs, I suppose...

--
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Re:I can't wait by Chris+Burke · 2005-06-27 09:39 · Score: 1

That isn't a stock picture, and itt's actually giving you extra information that was edited out of the print. The article originally said: "Tests show they are perfectly normal, with no brain damage, though they do tend to wake up extremely pissed off".

--

The enemies of Democracy are
Re:I can't wait by craXORjack · 2005-06-27 10:48 · Score: 2, Funny

The picture that comes with the article sure makes this whole process look really appealing.
Yes but the real picture was just too disturbing.

--
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.

April First Right? by Ken+Broadfoot · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 2, Funny

I have just gone through a time warp and it is April Fools Day, right?

What year is it?

--
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!

Re:April First Right? by daniil · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 1

Simon says it's 2032. If you want to find out what's been going on ever since you left, you can always peruse some newsreels in the Schwartzenegger Library.

--
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
Re:April First Right? by Council · 2005-06-27 10:29 · Score: 1

I have just gone through a time warp and it is April Fools Day, right?

What year is it?

It's 2005. None of that stuff has happened yet -- President Stewart (Jon or Martha), Taiwan's conquoring of China, Linus Torvald's anti-trust convictions, the Open Open Source movement (requiring personal bigoraphies to be included in code as comments), nuclear winter, volcanic summer, the deaths of all former members of the Jackson Five by inexplicable meteor impacts, Japan's adoption of live-action Katamari Damacy as the national sport, the draining of the Medeterranian to hold the overflowing third-world European population, Al Gore's attempted comeback, the subsequent re-flooding of the Medeterranian by a couple of teenage pranksters, the magnetic field reversal, the Moon 2, Al Gore's second attempted comeback, Al Gore's therapy session on Oprah, Jerry Falwell's therapy session on Queer Eye, George Lucas's release of the final original episodes 13, 14, and 15, and the death of the last "in Soviet Russia" joke in captivity.

You've got a lot to look forward to.

--
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
Re:April First Right? by Neop2Lemus · 2005-06-27 13:42 · Score: 1

YOU'VE ALL BEEN HAD!
I call shenanigans!

If it appears in a journal, then I'll believe it. Also, why are they doing it with dogs and not mice or insects or anything far, far less complex (like a single cell)?

Didn't RTFA, as I don't get my science news from /.

Grabs broom and clenches it hard 'I'll sweep you shenanigans out of MY house!

http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2005/06/boffins-c reate-zombie-dogs.html

--
Needle Nardle Noo

What do vegetarian zombies say? by geekoid · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 4, Funny

GRAAIIINNNNSSSS...Grains...

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:What do vegetarian zombies say? by pizen · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

from bash.org:

* veganzombie has joined #uc
Graaaaaaaiiiiinnssss.....
* veganzombie has quit IRC (Quit: Graaaaaaaiiiiinnssss.....)
Re:What do vegetarian zombies say? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 0

Awsome http://www.reallifecomics.com/ [reallife.com] joke xD
Re:What do vegetarian zombies say? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:22 · Score: 0

Actually, that baby comes from Crazy Kimchi: http://kungfool.transpect.net/webpages/archive_CK/ 200306_2.html#01 I suggest you read through their entire archive, it's great.

Darwin sighs in disgust by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:05 · Score: 1, Funny

This is a great idea in concept, terrible idea in practice. While I laud the thought of using this on soldiers, it will most likely actually be used on those that have no business being alive ... e.g. people that are attempting to earn Darwin awards. We already have an overpopulation problem; how bad will it get when even the dead don't stay dead?

Re:Darwin sighs in disgust by Ced_Ex · 2005-06-27 08:52 · Score: 1

You think using this on soldiers is going to be a good thing? Haven't you seen Universal Soldier? They'll reanimate a crazy guy who still thinks he's in 'Nam.

Guess what will happen then? He'll torture you and cut off your ears for a necklace!

PS: Dolph has a PhD in engineering or something, that's one smrt zombie soldier!

--
Live forever, or die trying.

Imagine a BeoWolf cluster of zombie dogs by CrazyJim1 · 2005-06-27 08:06 · Score: 0, Redundant

You can launch a whole new style of DOS attacks.

--
God spoke to me.

Photo by kevin_conaway · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 1

Judging by the photo in that article, I'd say it worked real well. Yup, no after effects at all...

This Explains It by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 0

This explains why Dick Cheney is still "alive." I mean, all the guy can do is snarl... you just know he has to be a zombie.

I feel it grows near...... by KingBahamut · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 1

Land of the Dead will become reality.

--
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "

misleading title by Escherial · 2005-06-27 08:08 · Score: 1

From what I can glean from the article, this isn't really a breakthrough in reviving dead creatures more than it is another attempt at hibernation. It seems a little misleading to title the post "U.S. Scientists Create Zombie Dogs" when the treatment requires that they perform a process on the dogs (clinically killing them, I suppose), then restore them to a state that's equivalent (not sure, the article was vague about this) to before they were suspended. Regardless, this doesn't seem very useful, especially considering the exotic application they suggested in the article. Seriously, are you really going to be able to perform a full blood transfusion on an already wounded person in the middle of a battlefield?

Re:misleading title by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 0

No, I think this is exactly what it is. You are dying, a medic plunges a big hypo into your carotid artery and a drain somewhere else and your blood is swapped out in situ with some 'life' preserving fluid. Technically your dead. The fluid probably contains a sedative and painkiller in the initial part, and the only thing that keeps the heart moving while the transfusion occurs is electrical stimulation. You wake up six weeks later, back home, patched up as far as possible and alive. This could be a massive lifesaver.
Particularly in RTAs where the patient is often trapped and bleeding to death.

Crazy by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:08 · Score: 0

The possible uses of this procedure to save people are pretty nifty. The saline solution apparently is for the interim while repairs to organs or whatever are done. Once they are ready to revive they put the blood back in and shock it back to life.

Obligatory by Jace+Harker · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1, Funny

Just to get it over with:

I, for one, welcome our new canine zombie masters...

No brain damage, but by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 0

they now thirst for human brains! Actually, this is old news. This was reported at UC Berkeley several years ago.

Writeup wrong... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1, Informative

The article says: "paving the way for trials on humans within years."

It doesn't say anything about human trials within the next year.

_Please_ move along, nothing to see here by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 0

"News for Nerds. Stuff that matters."

Zombie dogz from H*E*L*L part 3.

Geez.

It's a dog by Exstatica · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 2, Funny

How do we know if the dog didn't suffer brain damage? Did this new super dog talk and say wow i got away with no brain damamamaamamamamage.

Re:It's a dog by t_allardyce · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Im guessing it can walk, sit on command, know what walkies means and sniff other dogs butts...

--
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Re:It's a dog by Hal_Porter · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 1

Geez, I work with people that can't manage all that.

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;

that would be wierd by geekoid · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 1

you die, and then much to your own surprise you wake up again.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Not new news by pthisis · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

The Safar Center was doing these experiments successfully in 1996.

I have no idea if they've recently done yet another incrementally longer period of exsanguination, as the article doesn't mention the time or a journal article name or anything.

--
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Re:Not new news by Hal_Porter · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 1

Soon my Master will walk the Earth again.

Igor! Bring Rover to me!

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;

Are you kidding? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:09 · Score: 0

You seem surprised. Have you ever read medical studies? Or research into vision, muscles, nerves, hearing, etc.?

Animals are subjected to some really horrible experiments and then killed to see what happened to their bodies.

This isn't unusual -- it's pretty common.

There's no requirement for companies to report this type of activity. The "vet" treating the animals works for the company, so they do what they can, but they can't really be working in the best interests of the animal (which is what their code of ethics requires).

Animal rights activists stage protests, write letters, even commit acts of arsen. But they can't possibly cover every case. If they were effective this wouldn't be the normal mode of research.

Re:Are you kidding? by m0rph3us0 · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 1

As soon as animal rights activists stop taking all the modern medicine that is based off animal research and found their own line of "pure" science using only human research, I'll start listening to them.

not really that much of an advancment by TRRosen · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 2, Interesting

It seems to me this is just an artificial way of creating a cold water drowning. People are often revived after long periods without oxygen in near freezing water. Leading to the rescue mantra "your not dead until your warm and dead".

Volunteers by Hoi+Polloi · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 5, Funny

I think this explains a lot about Dick Cheney.

--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning

Re:Volunteers by Catbeller · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 1

He did indeed secretly check into a hospital under an assumed name last week. Refreezing?
Re:Volunteers by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:55 · Score: 0

More like the 'recharge' your car's AC needs every so often.....
Re:Volunteers by pixelated77 · 2005-06-27 09:34 · Score: 1

Wrong Dick, I think we all know that this would explain a LOT more about Dick Clark.

I think the Russians did this long ago by deanoaz · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 1

I saw an old black and white film from decades ago (probably on archive.org) that showed some russian scientists doing the same thing.

"Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do."
- Donald Knuth

--
If 'the people' in Amendment 2 are 'the state' then Amendments 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 benefit the state, not you.

Re:I think the Russians did this long ago by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 0

As posted above:

http://www.archive.org/details/Experime1940

Sweet Zombie Jesus! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 0

Does Professor Farnsworth work for this outfit?

Zombie writers post to Slashdot! by bubbaD · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 1

Now we know where all the dupes come from!

huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 0

I must have slept the last 10 months. It' April again, hm?

Has to do with the oxygen level by DanielMarkham · 2005-06-27 08:10 · Score: 5, Informative

This is a follow-on to an article in Scientific American this month. Interestingly enough, the article concluded that cells stay viable just fine in very high or very low oxygen environments. It's the transition stage that causes all the damage.
Hence the reason for injecting saline -- it takes the oxygen-carrying blood out of the tisses almost immediately, which is what you want to do. The SA article authors said this seems a little extreme to use in humans, and I agree. They've had some success with mice using Hydrogen Sulfide, I think, mixed in with air. Also, surgery for animals that are "dead" brings in a whole new line of specialties that we haven't developed yet. This is going to be a fascinating area to watch, imo.

Re:Has to do with the oxygen level by d-rock · 2005-06-27 10:37 · Score: 1

The SA article mentions this as background for the work with H2S. The Sulfur can replace Oxygen due to its similar valences, etc, so they're able to reach the anoxic state instead of the hypoxic state without damaging tissue in the process. For more info you probably want to visit:

The Safar Center for Resuscitation Research

Mark Roth's (principal researcher on this article) website

Wikipedia page on Hydrogen Sulfide

On a side note, that was a great SA issue in general, they also had a really cool article on creating antimatter.

Derek

--
Don't Panic...
Re:Has to do with the oxygen level by Headw1nd · 2005-06-27 11:18 · Score: 1

I seem to recall some cryostasis experiments being carried out on dogs some time back where they were using a flourocarbon blood substitute with similar objectives: chill them down to zero, hold them without oxygen, then revive them later. I wonder why dogs seem like the best candidates for this stuff?

Blimey by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 0

Noticing the link, this story is coming out of Australia... Isn't the title supposed to read "Dingo Dogs" instead?

Fake, but hilarious! by MikeSty · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 0, Troll

Hahahahaha! Great article!

Take a look at some of the other articles in "The Other Side" section...
http://www.news.com.au/otherside/?from=ninews_left nav

Robot lobsters? Haha! The only one that I believe is in full truth is the one about the cabbage leaves in baseball hats. I was watching a ballgame the other day and they were talking about this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15696312-1376 2,00.html

Re:Fake, but hilarious! by SirWhoopass · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 4, Informative

True, the news.com.au site isn't exactly a good news site.
Some better links are here, here, and here.

Watch out for your keyboards ... by tomhudson · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

blood was drained and replaced by a cold, saline liquid.

Adds a whole new take to "you can have my keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead hands".

Could this be a way to LEGALLY scam an insurance company?

Submit to procedure ...
Have next of kin collect insurance money, since you're dead ...
Get revived (hopefully before aforementioned next of kin spend all the money)

Or just put $100 in the bank and wait a couple thousand years while compound interest does its magic.

Re:Watch out for your keyboards ... by kisrael · 2005-06-27 08:21 · Score: 1

Heh, like Hotblack Desiato in Restaurant at the End of the Universe who was spending a year legally dead, "for tax reasons".

The "$100 for a couple thousand years" is a profoundly optimistic viewpoint...come to think about it, that wouldn't even pay for your icebox maintenence.

--
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Re:Watch out for your keyboards ... by clem · 2005-06-27 09:08 · Score: 1

Just stash some money away into various investments and the compounding interest should be reward enough after two millenia. That's provided the future inhabitants you awake to use 21st century money as opposed to calloric credits or animal pelts.

--
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.

Can't help it.. here it comes! by Ligur · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

Your dog wants brains!

--
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

The funniest headline EVER! by erroneus · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 1

I was looking for the "foot" icon but didn't see it. Hahaha... that's hilarious!

i for one... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:11 · Score: 0

i for one, welcome our new zombie canine friends

Re:I for one... by Mixel · 2005-06-27 08:57 · Score: 1

Bah, you beat me to it :/ Undead Canine sounds better than Zombie Canine tho.. the temptation of posting again... uughhhh... what if you get in ahead of me *gasp*.. again! Must... not..
Re:I for one... by javaxman · 2005-06-29 12:12 · Score: 1

I *never* go for the "I for one" post, but Zombie Dogs of all things!
It was so natural... I tip my hat to you, though, I wouldn't have thought to translate it to Undead Canine.

Zombie Dogs is pretty good, though. I expect to see a band of that name any day now.

Turn turn turn by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:12 · Score: 0

Clerics, better polish those holy symbols!

Stupid reporter alert by IntergalacticWalrus · 2005-06-27 08:12 · Score: 1

They've basically managed to put the dogs into complete "cryogenic" sleep, and bring them back to full health hours later. Pretty cool in scientific terms, but not really anything like zombies, as the retarded guy who wrote the article seems to want us to believe.

Boffins? by TripleE78 · 2005-06-27 08:12 · Score: 1

Since I had no idea what a "boffin" was, I figured I'd help out my other fellow Americans.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=boffin

Apparently it's Brit slang for research (usually military) scientists. From the Brit and Aussie readers, is this a fairly accepted term?

Seriously, this article is light on details, and I'm even more skeptical when the headline is using slang terms. Hopefully someone can enlighten me.

Oh yeah, and since it's /., the obligatory jokes and knee jerk reactions.

OMFG! Zombie dogs!
I wonder if the Umbrella Corporation is involved!
Oh no, here come the Resident Evil jokes.
I, for one, welcome our grit covered zombie Natalie Portman overlords.
In Korea, only old dogs get zombified.
In Soviet Russia, dogs zombify you.
Robotic zombie dogs! In Japan!

~EEE~

Re:Boffins? by m50d · 2005-06-27 08:21 · Score: 1

Yes, very much an accepted term. Means brainy but with connotations of lacking common sense and/or being a bit nerdy wrt socialising.

--
I am trolling
Re:Boffins? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:30 · Score: 0

Some more obligatory Slashdot Jokes...

10) All your zombie dogs are belong to us.
9) Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these puppies! [*groan*]
8) Zombie dogs are bad, m'kay?
7) After reading this, the SCO thing starts to make more sense.
6) Looks like they already tried this on Duke Nukem Forever. But they left out the second part.
5) Guess who's gonna win the Ignobel Prize for Medicine this year.
4) One word: backup.
3) Just wait for this story to dupe. Oh the irony...
2) Porthos boldly went [sic] where no beagle had gone before.

And the number one obligatory Slashdot joke...

1) Man, just look how far some modders will go for cooling.

And what happens to your soul? by Tenebrious1 · 2005-06-27 08:12 · Score: 0, Troll

If you're clinically dead, the soul aready departed right? Especially if it takes a few hours or days to get your body revived, then your soul's been hanging with the big man upstairs and probably won't want to return, which means the body will be revived without a soul and turn into a brain-eating zombie...

Seriously, just wondering what the Church's reaction to this is going to be.

--
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.

Re:And what happens to your soul? by EvilTwinSkippy · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 1

Seriously, just wondering what the Church's reaction to this is going to be.
See also:

The Resurrection

Lazurus

--
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Re:And what happens to your soul? by mad.frog · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 1

To be blunt in my reply:

who gives a shit?

I mean, I presume we're talking about the same "church" that considers single-cell fetii, and half-her-brain-missing Terri Schiavo to also have souls.

As soon as the Church provides scientific evidence (not even proof mind you... just plausible *evidence*) of a "soul", then maybe I'll be interested in what they have to say.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by dj961 · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 1

The church says dogs dont have souls,personally I'd like to see this done to a human over a longer period, say a week, just to see what happens.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by khellendros1984 · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 1

And what happens to your soul when you sleep? My God's no idiot...dunno about yours...he'll keep your soul with your body if he knows you're coming back to life anyhow.

--
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by jonored · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

...Probably that, given that your body is actually rather thoroughly intact and the only real issue is that you're essentially "shut down" for a bit... nope, you're not dead, you are just difficult to distinguish from dead. Thye vast majority of your cells are still there, in perfectly functional state, just... not doing much functioning right now.

Works fine if you just define "dead" as "dead beyond all current or conceivable possibility of resucitation before the end of time" for theological purposes.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 0

I find it amazing that people can still be stupid enough to believe that there's more to consciousness than the brain. If that were true, chemicals wouldn't affect the mind, and specific stimulation/damage to the brain wouldn't affect memory and perception. We know to larger and larger degrees where various types of perception and cognition happen. It's all a physical process in the brain. When you die, it stops. Period.

Personally, I find the notion of oblivion when I die far more comforting than any of the offerings of religion, except for the Hindu/Buddhist idea of transcendence. Heaven, Valhalla, etc. all sound pretty boring. It'd be much more fun to ascend to higher planes of reality and continue to expand my awareness.

The only argument I can think of that there might be more to consciousness than a chunk of marvelously complex grey goop is the fact that the physical substance which composes my brain is not the same that was there a few years ago, yet I have a consistent subjective experience of self awareness.

Of course, I would say that, even if my awareness were entirely contained in the physical substance of my brain, as memory and self-awareness are processes there.

Self is probably an illusion. Simply an artifact of our metacognition. Much like I believe our religious mythology is an artifact of our sociology and psychology.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:52 · Score: 0

If you're clinically dead, the soul aready departed right?

Bad assumption. There is no link between clinical death and the state of your soul.

Sometimes you had to be "dead" a certain amount of time (days) before you would be declared dead.

This has been recognized by some major religions for quite some time, so I don't think "the Church" will have much of a problem with it.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:02 · Score: 0

But.. but.. GOD SAYS!!! (See also: Argument From Authority)
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:07 · Score: 0

maybe its like those riverworld books and the soul just gets sucked back to the body, no matter if it wants to go or not
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Flying+Purple+Wombat · 2005-06-27 09:16 · Score: 1

In other words, you would only be MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. (from The Princess Bride )

--
If God had meant for man to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by hak+hak · 2005-06-27 09:35 · Score: 1

The idea of a soul (in the dualistic sense, i.e. able to survive apart from the body) is not a Christian invention. In both the Old and the New Testament a person is regarded as a single entity; the idea of an `immortal soul' was a Hellenistic idea that `crept into' the church during the first centuries of its existence. The Roman Catholic Church does (IIRC) teach the existence of a soul, but I'm not sure if that's intended in this `strong' sense.
As a Christian (but not Roman Catholic) I do not think there is either sufficient evidence or any need for the immortal soul. That also means that talk about ``going to Heaven (or Hell) after you die'' strikes me as a somewhat simplistic implementation of belief in an `afterlife'. Then again, that isn't the hope expressed in the Bible either; as the Nicene creed says it, "We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come." That's not a proposition that is testable or falsifiable right now (I don't believe in scientism, however); it is the expectation that God will continue to `keep his promises', so to say, in the future as he has done up to now.

Back to the zombie dogs: it's an interesting biological experiment, but if and when it's tried on humans I won't be surprised at all if they recall absolutely nothing of their time between death and resuscitation.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by afroborg · 2005-06-27 10:49 · Score: 1

Back to the zombie dogs: it's an interesting biological experiment, but if and when it's tried on humans I won't be surprised at all if they recall absolutely nothing of their time between death and resuscitation.

Seems reasonable. Someone earlier was talking about neurons metabolising being part of the reason this works without brain damage. Seems logical to me that if the brain is not working it ain't storing anything to memory... Kinda like hitting the pause button for a few hours...

--
my sig could kick your sig's arse...
Re:And what happens to your soul? by hyperstation · 2005-06-27 13:29 · Score: 2

Seriously, just wondering what the Church's reaction to this is going to be.

i'll see your troll, and raise you some flamebait:

fuck the Church. what good has it contributed to our race lately? i propose that we reject religion and any debate when it comes to the advancement of our knowlege and science.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by jonored · 2005-06-27 14:09 · Score: 1

LOL! masterful application :) ...But essentially, yes. At least, that's how a sane religious person would handle it.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Greyfox · 2005-06-27 15:57 · Score: 1

Yeah but the problem with that is a simple division of the amount of time you are aware by the amount of time the universe will be around results in a number which can readily be rounded down to 0. That would indicate to me that if you believe that the soul is an illusion you would logically also have to believe that awareness is an illusion. This holds up even if you substitute "Human history" or "Life as we know it" for the amount of time you live.
Oh wait it seems you WOULD agree with that. So what I want to know... is who or what is experiencing the illusion?

By the way, I'm pretty sure that consistent subjective experience is also an illusion. It is my hypothesis that the brain normally weaves random samples of environmental stimulii into what would seem to us to be a smooth and consistent awareness of what we consider to be reality. If something were to interfere with that mechanism, reality would seem to come in fits and starts.

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 19:10 · Score: 0

"reality would seem to come in fits and starts"

Yea, I've had mornings like that.
Coffee helps.
Black with sugar.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Kris+Thalamus · 2005-06-27 22:54 · Score: 1

That would indicate to me that if you believe that the soul is an illusion you would logically also have to believe that awareness is an illusion.

Why would a brain need a soul to have awareness?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 01:44 · Score: 0

I find it amazing people can be stupid enough to make broad statements about the source of consciousness with any authority, especially in insisting that matter is the source of consciousness. Quantum physics has shown that matter is itself an illusion of light that requires the consciousness of the observer to have any meaningful existence at all. I suppose you'd just have us throw all that out because it's too hard to think about... yeah, let's go shopping until we die in oblivion like our perfect physical interpretation of reality allows us to! Have fun, Mr. Grey Goop. Too bad you'll never know the vistas that can open up for you when you realize that the physical world does not define you - you define it.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Greyfox · 2005-06-28 01:45 · Score: 1

It's not that the brain needs a soul to have awareness. It's just that the amount of time that a brain is aware relative to the amount of time that the universe exists is close enough to zero that you can round down to zero. In fact, if you think the universe in some form or other is going to be around forever then you're dividing by infinity and get exactly 0. The brain may be aware but it is so utterly insignificant in relation to the cosmos that it may as well not be, for all intents and purposes.

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Kris+Thalamus · 2005-06-28 04:14 · Score: 1

The brain may be aware but it is so utterly insignificant in relation to the cosmos that it may as well not be, for all intents and purposes.

Please tell me why you are dividing your age by the age of the universe. Are you trying to say that an object's significance is directly proportional to it's age?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by The+Lynxpro · 2005-06-28 10:58 · Score: 1

"If you're clinically dead, the soul aready departed right? Especially if it takes a few hours or days to get your body revived, then your soul's been hanging with the big man upstairs and probably won't want to return, which means the body will be revived without a soul and turn into a brain-eating zombie..."

I can't see why the *Church* (generic term for all Christian denominations) couldn't simply explain that the soul is essentially tethered to the body. When the body *dies,* the soul goes onto the next stage. If it is revived, the soul returns.

Religion seems to have survived artificial insemination 20 + years ago. Then again, there's always the possibility that religion will exhault those that choose to die and not artifically continue their human existence...declaring those that do part of the godless rich.

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Greyfox · 2005-06-28 11:58 · Score: 1

No, I'm saying that pretty much everything is insignificant in the face of infinity. Even if the universe and time are finite, the amount of time that even humanity as a whole will likely be around is so much smaller than it that we can for all intents and purposes be said not to exist. In other words, if you try to comprehend reality as a whole it will be enormously huge and there will be a pin point on a pin point with a sign that says "You are here." That's a hell of a long way to go for a Douglas Adams reference but just because he said it first doesn't make it any less true.

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Kris+Thalamus · 2005-06-28 14:53 · Score: 1

Even if the universe and time are finite, the amount of time that even humanity as a whole will likely be around is so much smaller than it that we can for all intents and purposes be said not to exist.

I still don't see the connection between age and level of significance that you seem to be making. Many strains of bacteria have been around for longer than the human race. You can even find trees that are older than any individual human. According to your logic, does it follow that they are more significant than us?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Greyfox · 2005-06-28 15:12 · Score: 1

No. None of them are significant. If there is no eternal part of what you are then you exist for literally no time at all, because any finite number divided by infinity is zero. The universe will exist forever. You will not. Zero. Simple math.
I'm not saying this because I'm religious. I'm not. I've just come to the conclusion that since I don't believe there's any part of me that will continue to exist after I die, that I must not actually exist at all. I just did the math. Just divided the amount of time I existed by the amount of time I didn't. Came up with zero. Thought I might be wrong, subtracted the amount of time I existed from the amount of time I didn't. It didn't change the final number. Pretty straight forward, I thought. Having a bit of trouble reconciling the fact that I never actually existed with the fact that I thought I did, but I'm sure that little problem will be corrected shortly. In no time at all, in fact...

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 17:53 · Score: 0

Your assertion is invalid. The duration of the universe's existence is quite finite, according to most current cosmological models.

Metaphysically, as any good Indian philosopher could tell you, ignoring an elephant who appears to be heading towards you is a bad idea, even if he is an illusion as all things are.

While the threshold of existence we experience may be simply foam of an individual wave on the shore of an infinite quantum ocean, it is, nonetheless, real for our purposes. No amount of rounding of numbers or navel-examination will make you cease to exist.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Kris+Thalamus · 2005-06-28 18:42 · Score: 1

Significance is simply a value judgment that our thalami and amygdalae use to sort sensory data. If you find that your life experiences are insignificant, my advice is to find something that stimulates your serotonin an dopamine receptors with a more rewarding schedule.
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Greyfox · 2005-07-01 18:24 · Score: 1

It's true! My existence is an illusion and in 30 to 40 years (A meer blink of the eye in the lifespan of the universe) no assertion that I ever existed will be provable by me.
For whatever reason this temporary anomaly plagues me for the moment, but the way I see it I really shouldn't be bothered to do anything that I don't find enjoyable. After all, the universe could correct this erroneous state of affairs at any moment! Of course, I seem to have a rather twisted sense of fun as you can no doubt tell from my past and current postings...

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:And what happens to your soul? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-02 02:14 · Score: 0

> No. None of them are significant. If there is no eternal part of what you are then you exist for literally no time at all, because any finite number divided by infinity is zero. The universe will exist forever. You will not. Zero. Simple math.

A finite (non-zero) number divided by infinity is NOT zero. The limit of n/i is 0 for i->infinity, but that's not the same as n/infinity=0.

And that, my friend, is simple math...
Re:And what happens to your soul? by mink · 2005-07-05 10:26 · Score: 1

"Quantum physics has shown that matter is itself an illusion of light that requires the consciousness of the observer to have any meaningful existence at all."

How exactly does light fit into this. Blind people (as an example) don't have problems with falling through chairs or having cars pass through them when they wander into the street.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

Tissue Damage.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:13 · Score: 0

The tissue damage is referring to its application as battlefield medicine, not that the process itself causes tissue damage. Pump a wounded soldier full of super-cooled fluid when he goes down on the battlefield, take him back to the surgical tent, fix him up, and then revive him.

Read. Understand. ..then critique.

Great.... by the+eric+conspiracy · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 1

Like we need more Zombie movies on the Sci-Fi channel.

Re:Great.... by DamienNightbane · 2005-06-27 12:21 · Score: 1

Except this is going to be less Sci-Fi Channel and more CNN.

I call BS by squoozer · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 1

Especially about testing on humans.

Although I suppose there are a fair number of "disapeared" people to test on so you never know.

--
I used to have a better sig but it broke.

Not just ER Patients... by cnelzie · 2005-06-27 08:14 · Score: 5, Interesting

...they could use this for the next set of Skull Sharing Conjoined Twins in an operation to split them apart.

--
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?

Re:Not just ER Patients... by dr_dank · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 1

Sounds like they took the "lets put our heads together and think of something" idea way too seriously.

--
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Re:Not just ER Patients... by Iriel · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 1

If I remember correctly, the term would be Craniopagus conjoined twins.

--
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
Re:Not just ER Patients... by cnelzie · 2005-06-27 10:15 · Score: 1

Thanks for the term. I will do my best to remember it for future use. (Although I don't know when that will next be.)

--
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Re:Not just ER Patients... by phosphorous · 2005-06-27 11:49 · Score: 0

The major problem with these types of conjoined siblings is not necessarily blood loss, but the sharing of the major blood vessels inside the cranium. Simply severing the vessels down the middle is not a safe route because you have to be sure that each of the conjoined brains is receiving enough blood flow.

The patients are put through a major battery of tests to map out the shared veins and arteries, sometimes to the point of creating physical 3d models for the surgeons to study. However, in the months that it takes to put all of the tests together, new vessels can (and do) form and the surgeons basically discover them as they are cutting through them.

Then, the issue becomes more about how to map out and repair these new vessels in real time. Perhaps this new therapy could be applied beforehand, so in the event that new blood vessels are accidally severed they can be repaired with minimal blood loss.

While you were sleeping by alvinrod · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 1

A lot of people have talked about strange "after-life" experiences when they've been "clinically dead" for short periods of time. A lot of this has been explained away in some form or another, but what will happen when a person is "dead" for 3 hours?

It really brings a lot of questions about spirituality and God into the mix. Kind of reminds me of the movie Flatliners.

Re:While you were sleeping by taskforce · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 1

I would say it answers questions rather than raises them actually, which is a first. If you're dead and you come back and you didn't see no heaven, there there wheren't no heaven.
If you're dead, you go to hell/heaven then science plucks you from Satan's Jaws(TM)/God's Loving Caress(TM) then there most certainly is an afterlife.

--
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)

Start lining them up 2 by 2... by Vonotar82 · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 1

Does anyone else see the real potential for an interstellar ark ship now?

--
"I drank WHAT?!"--Socrates

Mortality.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 0

Just how scared of death people are. We, out of sheer desperation, will go to any lengths to try to overcome the finality of our own demise.

Face it, we'll all be fodder (in one sort or another) before not too long. Enjoy what you have now and make the most of the life you have. ;-)

As an aside, I can't imagine the dog(s) feel too good after being 'awoken'. It might even be considered 'cruelty'. Just a thought.

The only side-effect... by mr.+mulder · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 0, Redundant

you crave brains.

replaced the blood with cold saline liquid, huh? by L202 · 2005-06-27 08:15 · Score: 1

"The technology will be tested on humans within the next year."

They obviously haven't met my ex-girlfriend.

Don't inject the reagent into amputated parts by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 0

it's cheesy in a B movie way.

I call "bullshit" on this article. by Catbeller · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

An "unnamed US battlefield doctor" is quoted?
No medical journal publication?
No details?
Unknown "research" center?
READY TO TEST ON HUMANS IN A YEAR? BULLSHIT. Never would happen. Not in a year, not from one dinky study.
And cold blood would damage the tissues. And I can't imagine how the dog's mind would survive intact, but that's just me.

Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by pete.com · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1, Informative

And cold blood would damage the tissues. And I can't imagine how the dog's mind would survive intact, but that's just me.

I seem to recall two cases of children falling into sub-freezing lakes and remaining there for 30-60 minutes. Being revived and having no brain damage. It is the extreme cold that protects the brain from damage as I understand it.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 5, Informative

Here's the peer-reviewed journal article: Nozari et al. - Suspended Animation Can Allow Survival without Brain Damage after Traumatic Exsanguination Cardiac Arrest of 60 Minutes in Dogs (institution subscription may be required...)
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by blamanj · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 1

It's not an unknown research center. They specifically named the Safar Center in the article, which you ought to be able to find by yourself.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by eck011219 · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I have opinions about my neighbor's dog that make this whole process very appealing. Although the fact that he barks at EVERY DAMNED BIRD AND SQUIRREL LIKE IT'S THE FIRST ONE HE'S EVER SEEN makes me wonder how much mind is really in jeopardy.

--
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Sentry21 · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 3, Funny

And I can't imagine how the dog's mind would survive intact, but that's just me.

Dude, have you never played Resident Evil? Never seen Dawn of the Dead? The mind isn't supposed to survive. DUH! Otherwise most zombies would go back to work instead of feasting on delicious brains.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by ArcSecond · 2005-06-27 08:47 · Score: 1, Redundant

I agree. How the hell are you going to "Test it on humans"? Wouldn't you have to kill someone in order to bring them back to life? Last time I checked, that was not just unethical, but also quite illegal.

And I don't know how they can say there was "no brain damage" in these dogs. How do they know? Based on MRIs? Behaviour? Wishful thinking?

--
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 0

How many journal publications and published research centres were involved before these famous tests on humans. I certainly don't call bullshit on the human testing part.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by rabel · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 1

Well, here's a complete story about all this called "Monster Island" that explains it all for you. Fun "brain candy" for reading (heh, heh) and it tells how to make a smart zombie by preserving the brain through the death process.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by fafalone · 2005-06-27 09:08 · Score: 1

Perhaps you ought to do a little research on your own into the projects being done at the Safar Center. They've been using techniques such as this on dogs for quite a while now, so its quite likely theyve collected enough evidence of efficacy to move on to human trials of the technique. The journal articles are there for all their research projects in this area, in Nature, Anesthesiology, and others. Mod parent -1 Troll.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by grassy_knoll · 2005-06-27 09:17 · Score: 1

I agree. How the hell are you going to "Test it on humans"? Wouldn't you have to kill someone in order to bring them back to life? Last time I checked, that was not just unethical, but also quite illegal.

Finally, a good use for outsourcing!
[badum-ching]

--
A Human Right
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:24 · Score: 0

Just like they wern't allowed to stop peoples hearts for open-heart surgery.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Mercury2k · 2005-06-27 09:45 · Score: 1

To be fair, there is a lot about this universe that we dont understand yet. Perhaps they have stumbled upon something that was right in front of us the whole time so to speak. And I am sure they understand the affects of temperature change on livings cells etc. At least way more than you and I know from biology class.

In closing, we are getting close to figuring out how the process in our brain that gives us "life" works, and this might be something to help us start testing memory saving devices. Think about it, if you can put a brain in a perfectly preserved state of suspended animation, god knows what time we would have to work on the body of the victim.

Actually, come to think of it, that might be a bad thing as humans would start being stacked into shelfs awaiting life saving measures. :)
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by necrognome · 2005-06-27 09:48 · Score: 1

Problem solved! We have a farm of test-ready zombies^H^H^H^H^H^H^Henemy combatants in Cuba!

--

Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by BoomTechnology · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 1

The instititute does actually exist. I think this is legitimate. http://www.safar.pitt.edu/

--
Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb...
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by InfiniteWisdom · 2005-06-27 10:22 · Score: 1

Wouldn't you have to kill someone in order to bring them back to life? Last time I checked, that was not just unethical, but also quite illegal.

I don't know if you've heard, but people do die from accidents and such every now and then. About one person every 11 minutes from road accidents in the US alone, in fact. A lot of these people also have donated their bodies to medical and scientific research. Testing it on these people would not just be ethical but also quite legal.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by xMilkmanDanx · 2005-06-27 10:33 · Score: 1

Cold doesn't damage tissue, the formation of ice crystals damages the tissue. Which is avoidable with some form of disolved material to lower the freezing point and/or inhibit the formation of crystals. This is how certain animals survive hibernating and being frozen.

Though I do agree on one point, moving to human trials so quickly does seem unlikely.

--
I am not in anyway affiliated with Max Cannon
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by sim82 · 2005-06-27 10:40 · Score: 0

Could not read the linked article but here is the abstract. Can not be complete bullshit.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:10 · Score: 0

READY TO TEST ON HUMANS IN A YEAR? BULLSHIT

Apparently you weren't there when President Bush relaxed regulations on the medical research community, to help his buddies in the Pharmecolgical industry.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by SamSim · 2005-06-27 11:57 · Score: 1

I can't imagine how the dog's mind would survive intact, but that's just me.

Your earlier points are valid, but this is an extremely poor argument against something being possible. Creationists try this one all the time.

--
qntm.org
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:51 · Score: 0

I suggest you check one of the responders to your comment. Looks like you were wrong again, dick. I call bullshit on your existence. Oh, and... YOU FUCKING FAIL IT.
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by Arkaein · 2005-06-27 13:45 · Score: 1

READY TO TEST ON HUMANS IN A YEAR? BULLSHIT. Never would happen. Not in a year, not from one dinky study.
You and just about everyone else, needs to RTFA, or at least just the first paragraph:

US scientists have succeeded in reviving the dogs after three hours of clinical death, paving the way for trials on humans within years.
There is a wee bit of difference between a year and years. Sheesh.

--
The ultimate plays for Madden 2006
Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. by dburr · 2005-06-27 14:05 · Score: 1

You obviously haven't been to the office where I work...

--
Yomigaeru Aiyan Geek!!!

Multiple death sentences ... by tomhudson · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Hey, now if someone's sentenced to multiple death sentences, you can kill him, revive him, and kill him all over again.

Talk about extreme punishment ...

I can just see death penalty advocates jumping all over this - "See, we'll just keep everyone we execute on ice for a couple of decades, so that if we've made a mistake we can fix it, sort of."

And now we can torture terrorists to death - and beyond. Look out, Buzz Lightyear!

Re:Multiple death sentences ... by wowbagger · 2005-06-27 08:31 · Score: 1

Well, I have a new subject for them right here in the Sedgwick County Jail....

--
www.eFax.com are spammers
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by TheDukePatio · 2005-06-27 08:45 · Score: 0

...and when they wake up the first thing they ask:
"How's that damn 3 seashell thing work?"

...but seriously folks...could anyone see the whole Demolition Man cryo-prison thing coming to life? It would seriously reduce the space needed to house criminals. No longer would the vast wastelands of arctic tundra go to waste. No need to feed, heat, provide health care or vast amounts of security for problem prisoners. The most serious and violent offenders only need apply.

--
To Alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by KMitchell · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 1

Hey, now if someone's sentenced to multiple death sentences, you can kill him, revive him, and kill him all over again.

One of the best series I've ever read goes into some of the implications of multiple death sentences:

http://mostlyfiction.com/scifi/simmons.htm

...though the "practical" implications aren't really explored until Endymion
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by dustman · 2005-06-27 09:07 · Score: 1

...but seriously folks...could anyone see the whole Demolition Man cryo-prison thing coming to life?

No. The point of prison is to rehabilitate the criminal. How is someone going to rehabilitate if they jsut take a Rip van Winkle nap after getting caught?
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by hackstraw · 2005-06-27 09:33 · Score: 1

Hey, now if someone's sentenced to multiple death sentences, you can kill him, revive him, and kill him all over again.

Talk about extreme punishment ...

Its not too bad if you have enough resources for n+1 revives, where n is the number of death sentences.
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by cheesybagel · 2005-06-27 10:56 · Score: 1

What if someone gets a life sentence in jail? I doubt rehabilitation is expected in that case.
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by TheDukePatio · 2005-06-27 11:34 · Score: 0

Hence the reason I said "Only the most serious/violent need apply". You're not going to do this for someone on a 3-5 stretch for fraud. This is something for those with *very* extended sentences.
Freezing someone for life seems contradictory since once their frozen they technically aren't living and at that point it's more like freezing them for eternity which then amounts to a death sentence. Maybe they can be thawed in X years once we've come up with a better rehab program. Lifers aren't expected to be rehabilitated since they won't be re-entering society.

That being said, there are those in for life or on Death Row that have actually done some good for society and they have been rehabed as best possible. Whether it be providing scholarships, training and rehabbing pets, it is possible.

I'm willing to give people a second chance or to allow them to do some good to make some ammends, that doesn't mean letting them out if their offense was so insane that it warrented their long prison stay in the first place.

Some people can't be rehabbed and will never feel sorry for their crimes or their crime was so heinous that merely locking them in a cell for the rest of their life doesn't seem to do justice. While I'm a supporter of the death penalty, I agree with its detractors in that it's not the deterrent that people think it is. Those who will end up being considered for it most likely live their lives in constant fear of death (talking about the drug runners and gang bangers). Serial killers, child molesters, etc are just on a power trip and should be perfect fodder for these types of experiments.

--
To Alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by Neop2Lemus · 2005-06-27 15:39 · Score: 1

congrats on the great post tom :-)

--
Needle Nardle Noo
Re:Multiple death sentences ... by tomhudson · 2005-06-27 15:52 · Score: 1

Thanks. It reminds me of a case where a man awaiting execution on death row refused to take his anti-psychotic meds, because they couldn't execute him if he were not sane. So they try to get a court order to force him to take his meds. The courts refuse. But - the courts come back and say "Refusing to take your meds because if you do you'll be sane enough to execute - thats sounds like pretty sane behaviour to us - you can fricasee him now, boys."
Look at that a +2 Troll 'Tis to laugh Ho ho ho Burma Shave

And it's not even Tuesday yet :-)

But don't call it godless necromancy! by PCM2 · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Nothing these scientists have done defies the laws of nature. Got that? No laws were broken! The scientists have merely "time shifted" the animals, which is perfectly permissible under Fair Use.

--
Breakfast served all day!

Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by mooingyak · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 5, Funny

Repairing broken animals has never been an issue, it's just when you try to make copies without written authorization from the copyright holder that people get all upset.

--
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Myself · 2005-06-27 08:53 · Score: 1

That's actually an extremely good point. If life is sacred, could one say $deity holds the copyright on our DNA? It's obviously on a pretty liberal license, but...

If so, wouldn't that sort of mandate that genetically modified organisms be released under the same license, forbidding DNA patents?
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by WolfWithoutAClause · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 3, Funny

Yes, that's exactly why I put all my releases under the GPL! ;-)

--
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:03 · Score: 0

Are you really sure about that?
Dogs are probably protected under the DMCA with the copyright holder being god...

Did they receive a written permission from god to breach copyrights??

Let's sue them!
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Just+Some+Guy · 2005-06-27 09:27 · Score: 1

it's just when you try to make copies without written authorization from the copyright holder that people get all upset.
...and don't get me started on the issue of remixes.

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:47 · Score: 0

Is she over 18?
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:28 · Score: 0

You are right, this little time-shift is OK with the Creator, and it is also fine with me as far as the techique is used on the animals. On the other hand if you try to use it with people, I am not sure if you do not infringe some of my 10 patent claims (especially the one about stopping the life process). But don't worry, I can licence the technique to you - just for a little sign before you start to pump the blood out ....

Yours Belzee.
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 13:23 · Score: 0

General Pet License?
Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! by SteffenM · 2005-06-27 13:48 · Score: 0

...and don't get me started on the issue of remixes.

Chimera zombies?

White Light etc... by sickboy85 · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 1

I wonder how long until they're selling Near Death Experience to fools searching for meaning...

Interesting movie link by lupinstel · 2005-06-27 08:16 · Score: 0

Here is a link to the Prelinger Archives which shows "the successful experiments in the resuscitation of life to dead animals (dogs), as conducted by Dr. S.S. Bryukhonenko at the Institute of Experimental Physiology and Therapy, Voronezh, U.S.S.R." It is probably fake, but it is old (circa 1940's), wierd and applicable to the the topic. movie link http://www.archive.org/details/Experime1940

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.

Or by geekoid · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

they could just pay them a whole lot of money.
A lot of people would take the risk if it meant being a multi-millionaire.

Even more of there spuse gets them money wether or not the person survives.

I mean, live in squalar, knowing you can't give the best to your kids, ort die but knowing your kids will be able to bebetter taken care of?

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:26 · Score: 3, Funny

Even more of there spuse gets them money wether or not the person survives.

I'll bet that reads much better in the original Klingon.
Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 0

Hmmm.. Google Mpas turned up no hits for Squalar. It sugguested I look for Squalor, but then failed to locate it. Perhaps this is an alias for the lost continent of Atlantis?
Re:Or by TomTheHand · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

I... don't think anyone's going to pay test subjects millions of dollars.
Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Here's a deal: kill yourself and I promise to give your kids a better education than you ever could.
Re:Or by elrous0 · 2005-06-28 02:31 · Score: 1

Here's a deal: kill yourself and I promise to give your kids a better education than you ever could.
I'll top that offer. I'll educate his kids and his wife.

-Eric

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.

boffin by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · 2005-06-27 08:17 · Score: 1

Boffins create zombie dogs

the boffins would be happy to keep people in this state for just a few hours,

In case anyone was flummoxed by the word boffin: http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-bof1 .htm explains all.

--
We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432

Hmmm..... by 8127972 · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 1

They couldn't be using the release of "Land Of The Dead" to gain some extra attention?

--
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.

Don't even bet on Taxes by ackthpt · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 1

Ok, looks like taxes are the only sure bet left.

I hear George Bush is going for total elimination of all taxes and then further doubling the federal government's spending. It's some new theory called Implosion Economics I think...

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Re:Don't even bet on Taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:26 · Score: 0

You should keep complaining about GWB....
If you want to continue winning elections that is....

I'd rather live in "flyover country" than in the "coast pimples".
Re:Don't even bet on Taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:08 · Score: 0

We should all thank GWB for protecting us from the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001. Oh, wait a second, his administration ignored the 40+ warnings during the preceding summer. Way to go, Bush! You deserve an award for gross negligence. Dereliction of Duty. Not just during Vietnam. But now for your own personal Vietnam II. Thank you for the quagmire, Sir Bush. You are a(n upper) class (fascist) act. Please, keep cutting the taxes for the top 1% and do nothing to stop THE HIGHEST OIL PRICES in history. Peak oil. It's not just a breakfast cereal. Sucks to be you if you don't have $250,000 saved in your (non-S&L) bank account. Even if you live in "fly-over" country.

From TFA: by dr_dank · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 1

But even a this should be enough to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss.

If they have the equipment on hand in a battlefield or emergency scene to pump out the blood and pump in this cold solution (not to mention the cooling equipment necessary), why wouldn't they have the proper equipment to attempt to save the patient?

--
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?

breath weapon by yourfnmom · 2005-06-27 08:18 · Score: 2, Funny

I wonder if they can equip these zombie dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot zombie bees at you.

Disease by coopaq · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 0

What affects would this have on disease?

Would you be able to cure a common cold by this or cure something as extreme as cancer?

This could be a way to freeze some diseases out of your system.

IANADr. so it would be interesting to here from those who know.

Here's the scene... by FunWithHeadlines · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 3, Funny

"Still, this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit... sounds like 50s sci-fi. What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?

"Woof!"

"Fluffy's alive! It's ALIVE! IT'S ALIIIIIVVEEE!!"

Re:Here's the scene... by CaymanIslandCarpedie · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Here is a video of what it looks like happening to a goldfish.

OK, not quite the same but similar and I find it somehow entertaining ;-)

--
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
Re:Here's the scene... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 2, Funny

I for one welcome our Zombie dog Overlords! Hey, that could be the name of a heavy metal band.
Re:Here's the scene... by lemuroid · 2005-06-27 09:32 · Score: 1

Hard to watch the goldfish struggle to "breath" Harder to listen to that music
Re:Here's the scene... by PerspexAvenger · 2005-06-27 09:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

Er.
Okay, that vid's quite, quite fucked up.
Granted a goldfish doesn't exactly have many braincells to bang together, but that's really rather disturbing.
Re:Here's the scene... by msim · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 1

Not to be all "me too" but i have to agree that it is quite disturbing.

And did they have to refer to the dogs as "zombie dogs" in the article? i suddenly had visions of this a few years down the track. Say a discrimination lawsuit, "He's just discriminating against me because i'm undead!!!"

--

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
Re:Here's the scene... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

I found that pretty sick to watch as well.

And in fact, there is no educational value in it at all as far as I can see. The goldfish is given an electric shock and its body reacts to it vigorously, but the video is cut off right after that initial reaction to the shock.

For all I know, the fish is dead and remains that way.
Re:Here's the scene... by Basehart · 2005-06-27 10:42 · Score: 1

As much as I'd like to see what happens in the video, I get weirded out by the bad stuff happening to living things.

So, what happens?
Re:Here's the scene... by HybridJeff · 2005-06-27 10:53 · Score: 3, Informative

Some guy slowly takes all the water out of a fish bowl and you see the fish has progressivly less and less room.
He then empties a can of mountain due into the fish boql and the fish floats at the top apparently dead.

A few minutes later he repaces the mountain due with water again and the fish is remains floating upside down.

A 9V battery is then dipped into the water and it seems to shock the fish back to life.
Re:Here's the scene... by sazim · 2005-06-27 10:57 · Score: 1

Goldfish swimming in a small bowl of water. Water is slowly removed using a pipette until only a few mL remain. After flopping around a bit, the fish lies still. A can of Mountain dew is poured into the bowl. Fish floats to the surface, but does not respond, ie still appears dead. Mountain dew is slowly removed using a pipette (I guess for effect). Fish lies still at bottom of bowl. Fresh water is added. Fish floats motionless in the water. The terminals of a 9v battery are touched to the surface of the water. Fish jerks to "life" and swims around a bit. Video ends almost immediately after.

The whole thing is done to really crappy "music".

--
"Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." - Roald Dahl
Re:Here's the scene... by illerd · 2005-06-27 11:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

It "seems" to shock the fish back to life, except the movie fades out just seconds after that. If you put electricity through a dead body, it will move. The fish jerks a little, but it doesn't swim around like it does at the beginning of the video. There's no fucking way that fish withstood all that co2. And if it did, its little fish balls would be shrunk out of existence from all the yellow5...or is it the yellow6?

The movie is fish snuff.
Re:Here's the scene... by Hannes+Eriksson · 2005-06-27 11:44 · Score: 1

Zombie dog Overlords? That reminds me of the Zappa tune named Zomby Woof. Not heavy metal, but creepy enough to fit a story on undead pets.

--
Geek rants since like... 2000 or something.
Re:Here's the scene... by SacredNaCl · 2005-06-27 11:49 · Score: 4, Funny

Thanks to some changes in bankruptcy laws & tax laws, it might be worth it to spend a year dead for tax purposes.

--
Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
Re:Here's the scene... by deglr6328 · 2005-06-27 12:16 · Score: 1

Hmm well you better not watch any of their other stuff. Its peta friendly dontcha know....

--
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
Re:Here's the scene... by ClubStew · 2005-06-27 12:22 · Score: 1

I would just stick my dog in that creepy cemetery on the hill behind our house, despite the Native American legends.

...then my already creepy son.

...then my wife. Hot.
Re:Here's the scene... by Basehart · 2005-06-27 13:39 · Score: 1

Ugh - glad I didn't watch it.

Thanks for the descriptions people.
Re:Here's the scene... by stevenm86 · 2005-06-27 14:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

Okay, the fate of the goldfish may be unclear. Is it really revived, or did the electric shock simply cause its muscles to twitch uncontrollably?
But this.. this is just seriously fucked up. And these are the same people who did all that ipod battery stuff. Go figure.
Re:Here's the scene... by hjo3 · 2005-06-27 14:27 · Score: 1

Disgusting. I'm hardly a PETA sympathizer, but that's just cruel and stupid. Harming animals is often necessary for science, food, and safety. Those are all acceptable reasons in my mind. But for entertainment? That's wrong. I don't understand how someone could hurt an animal purely for their own amusement and still claim to have a conscience. (Hunting and fishing for food is different-- in these cases, the goal is to end the animal's life as quickly as possible, not to torture it for fun.)
Re:Here's the scene... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 14:31 · Score: 0

Y o u
a r e
f u c k e d
u p . . .

(And if my comment makes you smile, you are fucked up AND a troll...)
Re:Here's the scene... by Mr2cents · 2005-06-27 14:45 · Score: 1

And in case you never heard of mountain dew (as I did), here are the ingredients after searching around a bit:

Contents: Carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup and/or sugar, concentrated orange juice and other natural flavors, citric acid, sodium benzoate (preserves freshness), caffeine, sodium citrate, gum arabic, erythorbic acid (preserves freshness), calcium disodium EDTA (to protect flavor), brominated vegetable oil and yellow 5

That's not good for goldfish. Luckily it's not alcoholic.

I think the fish wiggles too long for it to be from the battery only, maybe the fish was still barely alive and the shock agitated him.

I'll categorize it as animal sadism.

--
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Re:Here's the scene... by Scud · 2005-06-27 16:00 · Score: 1

For all I know, the fish is dead and remains that way.

For all I know, it's sleeping with the fishes.

But yeah, that was really weird. And not weird in a good way...

--
I dream in binary.
Re:Here's the scene... by azbrdhntr · 2005-06-27 16:17 · Score: 0

.... death for tax evasion sounds like h2g2....:P

--
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
Re:Here's the scene... by g0dsp33d · 2005-06-27 16:33 · Score: 1

Or collect your death insurance a few times.

--
lol: You see no door there!
Re:Here's the scene... by Wolfrider · 2005-06-27 17:25 · Score: 1

Yah... I'm really at a loss for words; reanimating Man's Best Friend into a zombie is just... Evil.

--
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
Re:Here's the scene... by Tyrion+Moath · 2005-06-27 19:16 · Score: 1

The whole deal with yellow 5 is just a fallacy, as seen here.
Re:Here's the scene... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 23:42 · Score: 0

Is "mountain due" like a generic form of Mountain Dew? Dew is a liquid, due is a debt, and I'm not sure I'd want to drink a "mountain of debt"...
Re:Here's the scene... by bill_mcgonigle · 2005-06-28 07:40 · Score: 1

For all I know, the fish is dead and remains that way.

Yeah, and from the lack of further video we have to assume the fish didn't resuscitate - it just looks like the lamp battery caused the muscles to twitch.

If it were a resurrection video it would be interesting. But it's just a torture-the-fish video. Wow, glad that got posted here. (pour Mountain Dew in your eyes if you think the pH is OK for that)

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:Here's the scene... by syukton · 2005-06-28 08:06 · Score: 1

They use a turkey baster or eyedropper of some kind to slowly remove the water from the goldfish's bowl, then when it's totally empty, they pour in a can of (presumably) cold mountain dew. The fish floats to the top, still (dead?). Then they remove the mountain dew with the baster/dropper again, and replace with presumably warm water. The fish floats to the top, still (dead?). Then they poke it with a 9V battery and it springs back to life.

It is really worth watching.

--
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Re:Here's the scene... by Basehart · 2005-06-28 09:55 · Score: 1

"Then they poke it with a 9V battery and it springs back to life."

Ah, so they actually put the battery contacts on the fish itself. I was under the impression from previous posts that they just put the battery contacts onto the surface of the water.
Re:Here's the scene... by oktober42 · 2005-06-30 06:36 · Score: 1

I have dibs on the movie name "Hellhounds". I think Hollywood's ready for this one!

Move over, Flatliners by spaceman375 · 2005-06-27 08:19 · Score: 1

This is really going to be a leap forward in the study of near death experiences. If they get this med-tech working safely enough it will probably spawn a few religions. I'd be willing to try a half-hour or so if they can get over 99% success at reanimation.

--
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth

I for one... by javaxman · 2005-06-27 08:20 · Score: 1

welcome our new zombie dog overlords. Sorry, someone had to do it...

What do you mean how does it work? by SoundGuyNoise · 2005-06-27 08:20 · Score: 1

Didn't you ever see "Flatliners"? With Kiefer Sutherland and the cold blanket and such. When he coined "Today is a good day to die" a good decade before Worf?

It's simple:
1) Corpse-icle
2) GRAVITAS!!!!
3) Profit!

--
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling

In the immortal words of Doc.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:20 · Score: 3, Funny

1 point 21 Gigawatts!@!

Re:In the immortal words of Doc.. by spungebob · 2005-06-27 17:12 · Score: 1

Don't you mean 1 point 21 Jiggawatts...???

--
It takes an idiot to do cool things - that's why it's cool!
Re:In the immortal words of Doc.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 15:59 · Score: 0

No, they are Gigawatts. The pronounciation changed due people continually mispronouncing things like gigabyte and gigahertz. You wouldn't think that gigantic was pronounced gih-gantic, now would you?
Re:In the immortal words of Doc.. by spungebob · 2005-06-28 19:22 · Score: 1

I see.

So if a giga-byte is a billion bytes and a giga-watt is a billion watts, then wtf is a giga-ntic...?

--
It takes an idiot to do cool things - that's why it's cool!

Similar to hypothermia? by rice0067 · 2005-06-27 08:20 · Score: 1

Aside from the fact that this article had few if any facts, it seems to me that this is similar to the use of hypothermia to preserve tissue just more proactive this time.
It reminds me of the EMS adage "Their not dead until they are warm and dead".
Often, one must wait to warm a person who as drown in order to successfully revive them.
I seem to remember that if you decrease a human's core temp to 60 F you can stop the circulation for hours at a time without brain damage.
I just wonder if they put the blood back after they take it out :)

What about the soul of humans by ChaosCube · 2005-06-27 08:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

Now, for all of you who do not believe in a soul, just pretend. When the body of a human goes through this process, when does the soul leave the body? What if it's already gone by the time the body is reanimated? Does it get yanked back from the nether regions, or does it stay - creating a soul-less human? I'm not trying to start a religious flamewar. I'm just asking a question. Is the soul tied to the flesh, and to what degree? Would this procedure have an effect on the soul?

--
BDR Gear
Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!

Re:What about the soul of humans by orion41us · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 1

I like to think of the soul as a smell.... It's there when your body is alive, it is not when it's dead...
Re:What about the soul of humans by Cro+Magnon · 2005-06-27 08:51 · Score: 1

Of course, I don't KNOW what happens to the soul, but my guess is that you'll wind up with a soul-less human. He will then join the other lawyers, CEOs, and telemarketers.

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:What about the soul of humans by ChaosCube · 2005-06-28 00:36 · Score: 1

That's probably less of a guess than you realize.

--
BDR Gear
Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!

It must be said... by MadMorf · 2005-06-27 08:21 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcome our new Zombie Dog masters!

Down boy, down!...Stop eating the neighborhood kids' brains!

--
Goofy, Geeky Gifts and More!

Did we learn nothing? by GweeDo · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

Have we learned nothing from Resident Evil? This has to be the WORST idea ever!

--
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck

Not anecdotal by Mr.+Underbridge · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

Still light on facts, but I do recall anecdotal stories about people who have drowned in freezing temperatures being revived successfully long after the "normal" length of time, with little to no brain damage, having been preserved by the extremely cold temperature to which they've fallen.

That's relatively common, actually. The metabolic processes that lead to brain damage are significantly slowed during hypothermia. The brain thus uses oxygen much more slowly.

So the idea is reasonable, though I'll echo everyone else and wait for something other than a press release.

Changing the song by Reality+Master+101 · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1, Funny

(Parody of this parody, of course.)

I'm looking over
My dead dog Rover
Who I hit with a power mower
One leg is missing, but never fear
I've put him in cryo, next to the beer
No need explaining, life is remaining
I've put saline through his veins!
I'm looking over
My frozen dog rover
A little current will make him roll over.

--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.

Re:Changing the song by Reality+Master+101 · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 1

Eh, the last line is a little weak. I'll take suggestions. :)

--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.

A possible deal-breaker.... by SoundGuyNoise · 2005-06-27 08:22 · Score: 1

What about the risk of ice crystals forming within the circulatory system?

Won't that prove just as fatal as a blood clot?

--
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling

Re:A possible deal-breaker.... by rwise2112 · 2005-06-27 09:54 · Score: 1

Well it's a 7C, which is above freezing, and a salene soultion would no doubt have a lower freezing point still.

--

"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"

Biotech is Moving Fast by Ted+Holmes · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 0, Offtopic

We wear the same body and brains as Cro-Magnon humans did. The same people who rubbed sticks together for fire, driven by hunger to the hunt, who worked with tools of bone and stone and bedded down in huts of skin and branches. But this 40,000 year old piece of soft clay is about to become it's own sculptor. Here are a few examples I've been following:

Sheep with human brains and other organs.
or
Google Search
- The glow from the firefly has been inserted into tobacco plants making them glow in the dark.
or Google Search
- A human embryo cloned using a cell from a man's leg and a cow's ovum lived and developed for twelve days until it was terminated.
or Google Search
- Goats bred with a spider gene produce milk which is processed to make "BioSteel".. The US military has set up their own goat farm to make bulletproof vests, aerospace and medical supplies.
or Google Search
- Extended Life Spans
or Google Search

This is not just a turning point in history. It's also the fulcrum upon which technology balances our very evolution. ted

--

Thoughts on the Emergence of Computing Intelligence

Oh, it can swim. by 93,000 · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 1

And it has wheels, so in case you die in the desert it can drive to the nearest cemetary.

(Ob. Simpsons quote)

--
Sweet informative mod.

Worked in Curse of Monkey Island! by XanC · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 1

Stan the insurance man had to pay out because Guybrush presented his own death certificate.

Little Jonny by skarps · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 0

Teacher: Ok little jonny it's time to give your report.

Little Jonny: The other day we brought my pet fido to the vet. The vet drained all his blood and stuck a needle with cold liquid up his ass.

Teacher: Jonny, we don't say "ass" we say "rectum"

Little Jonny: Rectum? Hell, it killed 'em.

The Island of Dr Moreau by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 0

Enough said.

7C is enough for infections by free2 · 2005-06-27 08:23 · Score: 3, Informative

7C is enough for many pathogenic microorganisms
so if you do this long enough, watch the infections

During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

brains... with fava beans by bubbaD · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 1

Yeah and when livers are so much tastier! Oops, I mean, they probably would be... you know, if... never mind.

Re:brains... with fava beans by Umbrella+Corp.+Emplo · 2005-07-06 05:53 · Score: 1

Well a cow's liver tastes better than it's brains. So why not humans?

Las Plagas by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 0

You know what this sounds like... Resident Evil 4. The Las Plagas (a virus) was injected into humans/animals and they were convereted into zombies...
I think I better by myself a shotgun and a magnum and maybe even a rocket launcher!!!

Oh good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:24 · Score: 0

GWB can use this in Iraq and where ever the next war is.

Well, it's no 4-assed monkey, by jpellino · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 1

but it's a start.

--
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."

man, this is scary by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 0

will they be able to bring back psycho's mom? You know, Norman's mom? just think of the possiblities and consequences. will Nixon come back? if the amendment goes thru, will they be able to keep bu$h alive forever and in office? i am way too freaked out to speculate right now, how about you?

Fry by ndansmith · 2005-06-27 08:25 · Score: 1

If you volunteer for this experiment, you may wake up next to a foul-mouth bending robot in the year 3000. That is an acceptable risk.

Russians did it first by BunnyClaws · 2005-06-27 08:26 · Score: 0

I remember seeing a documentary about 10 years ago. Russian doctors were doing this to remove brain tumors in humans.

--
"Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."

Great Scott! by Frink+Noises · 2005-06-27 08:26 · Score: 1

Perhaps you need 1.21 gigawatts!

Ontological argument by otter42 · 2005-06-27 08:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've been involved in cryobiology since I did my Masters in it. back in 2001 Pretty cool stuff. Heh. (Thanks, I'll be here all night!)

Anyways...

I'm really fascinated by the metaphysical meanings of all this. Imagine that we froze a dog and brought it back to life (Hey, we just DID that, didn't we? Or pretty close, at least). Dog comes back, everything is hunky-dorey, he wags his tails, just like he used to, eats the same food as before, and still doesn't know not to pee on the carpet.

Understand that at LN2 temp, -197C, the only appreciable reaction is due to cosmic rays. We're talking EONS here. If it's that cold, it's dead. Dead, dead, dead. Not living anymore. This sets the stage for my philosophical question.

Imagine that we freeze a human. Human's just as dead as the dog. We reanimate him/her/it, and then... two possibilities. 1) Same thing as with the dog, human comes back, harty and hale. 2) Body comes back, but the brain refuses.

Isn't this a proof for the (non) existence of the soul? If the human comes back to life, that means the soul never left. Now, unless you're going to start some twisted, "Yeah, but god KNEW this one was coming back to life so he didn't take his soul... Hey, look 4800 year-old dinosaurs!" argument, you pretty much have to admit that the soul doesn't exist, or at least doesn't go away when you die. Because, let's admit it, frozen at -197C is just as dead as being blown to smythereens or having your heart stopped by the last (ultimate?) Big Mac you ate.

If the human DOESN'T come back, that pretty much proves that there is something special inside only humans that we lose the moment when we die, i.e. the soul.

So I'm really excited to see the first half of the data is in. Dogs live after death. They have no souls, at least not in the way we imagine them. Now, if only I'd work a little harder instead of reading /., I might help us get the second half of the equation.

--
www.eissq.com/BandP.html Ball and Plate System. Amuse your friends. Crush your enemies.

Re:Ontological argument by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:02 · Score: 0

Well, if there is a soul or "spirit", if you will, seems it could also be possible that it (soul or spirit) leaves but when revived the same or possibly even a different soul or spirit inhabits the body?

I suspect, and I could be wrong, admittedly, that the soul or spirit is what "drives the life" so to speak. If "the" soul or spirit does not come back or a new one doesn't, then IMHO, that body is going to be dead as the thing driving its life took off.

All of this is just speculation, of course.
Re:Ontological argument by 0111+1110 · 2005-06-27 10:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

Isn't this a proof for the (non) existence of the soul?

There is already no evidence for the religious concept of the 'soul'. If you are trying to convince a believer, don't bother. They do not believe based on evidence. The belief in magical, invisible, undetectable, but all-powerful entities is not based on science or anything resembling scientific, logical thinking. It is based on fairy tales usually 'learned' at an age before most humans are able to think critically. If you really want to convince a believer you will need to use a powerful emotional argument, not an evidence-based logical one. Their belief system is such that blind faith, especially in the face of contradictory evidence is considered a great virtue.

--
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Re:Ontological argument by smash · 2005-06-27 11:31 · Score: 1

This is exactly why the church is so against stuff like this.
Don't get me wrong, I think religion had its place back when people couldn't read or write and needed a story with morals to keep them on the straight and narrow.

But thats all religion is. A *story* with *morals* that was easy to pass from generation to generation as a guide on how to live.

Its largely obsolete now.

smash.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Ontological argument by mark-t · 2005-06-27 17:53 · Score: 1

If the human DOESN'T come back, that pretty much proves that there is something special inside only humans that we lose the moment when we die, i.e. the soul.
If humans don't come back, it proves nothing of the sort. There are too many variables to come to that conclusion.
Further, if human beings can come back from the dead (not merely _near_ death, but actually dead), it doesn't disprove the existence of a soul at all. Many religious people believe that when one dies, the soul doesn't permanently leave the body... it merely "sleeps", awaiting judgement on the final day.

--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:Ontological argument by ThaReetLad · 2005-06-27 21:41 · Score: 1

Whether or not it is obsolete now is rather a question of whether it is true or not, and that has very much not been solved definitively one way or the other. Face it, atheism is as much a position of faith as theism, in that both assert something about the existence of God without proof.

IF a religion (say, Christianity, for sake of argument) is true then there is a heaven and a hell and we're all going to one or the other, depending on whether you believe or not. If, on the other hand, there is no god, no heaven, and no hell, then we all just cease to exist and you've not really lost anything.

OK so I've just outlined Pascal's wager.

There is also less metaphysical argument on obsolete. Look around at the world you live in and the people you know. Do they seem happy? Do they seem joyful? Is society free from crime and violence and anger and hatred? Are people only living in happy stable families with children growing up with both parents? Is no one being murdered or raped, robbed or abused, oppressed or discarded? Are you truly happy?

Looking around at where I live and my co-workers, I'd argue that religion has never been more relevant, or more necessary. People are in the grip of a mania to fill the void in their lives with something. Money, sex, power, academic respect, shopping. People are in therapy trying to learn to love themselves and be totally self reliant. Huge numbers of people today in the west are on anti-depressants and are stressed out by the pressures of consumerism, or by the demands of unreasonable bosses. People are becoming isolated and lonely, and more and more in denial of their own misery.

Religion is not obsolete. It's vital.

--
You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
Re:Ontological argument by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 03:04 · Score: 0

Aww, cute! The bigot thinks he's people.

They do not believe based on evidence.

Yes? Tell me... where's your supporting evidence to this claim? Do you have a statistically significant sampling of the spiritual community whose beliefs you have scientifically examined? Have you examined the breadth of the topic in order to make an educated conjecture as to the actual nature of the underlying assumptions? Do you understand the principles they are using to reach there assumptions with the same rigorous veracity? Or are you doing exactly what you complain they are doing?

What you're essentially saying is "I assume I know enough to debunk the assumptions I assume they have based on what I think they mean by what they're saying. Further, I will presume to be able to identify a cause of their assumed assumptions without a thorough study of the underlying facts, and find no reason not to use those conclusions as the basis for my worldview and, specifically, as justification for my predjudices against them."

The fact that you include the idea of science in your argument does not mean that you follow the precepts of that idea, and that weakens your argument. And for the record, yes, I am doing the same--that's beside the point. All of us, you, me, scientists, spiritualists, are human: fallible, corruptible, distractable, confusable creatures. Between any discovery--scientific, spiritual, political, economic, mathematical, etc--and the way the public comes to understand it, there are thousands of chances for a message to be lost or mistranslated, especially when money or pride enters the picture. Presuming you have a clear vision of things is the first step to "being no better"... or worse.

Of course, I too may be wrong. I invite you to prove it.
Re:Ontological argument by Alsee · 2005-06-28 05:08 · Score: 1

If you really want to convince a believer you will need to use a powerful emotional argument, not an evidence-based logical one.

I've tried that. No matter how loud I scream "YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON!" it doesn't seem to work.

-

--
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Re:Ontological argument by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 05:42 · Score: 0

Because we can't talk to dogs about what they were experiencing (if anything) while their neurons weren't firing in their hibernation state, this doesn't prove or disprove anything. If a consciousness can still be aware without its associated brain being alive, then we've got something.
Re:Ontological argument by EinsteinEP · 2005-06-28 08:13 · Score: 1

That's great! I'll have to try that one. God(tm) knows logic and reason doesn't work.
Re:Ontological argument by EinsteinEP · 2005-06-28 08:18 · Score: 1

>Where's your supporting evidence to this claim? Burden of proof is on the other shoulders, Coward. If someone says they poop gold, I'm going to have to see a "statistically significant" demonstration before I believe it. Most "spirtualists" and deists and other voodoo-types have it the other way around.
Re:Ontological argument by Valdrax · 2005-06-28 09:22 · Score: 1

Isn't this a proof for the (non) existence of the soul?

There is already no evidence for the religious concept of the 'soul'.

You seem to have confused "a lack of proof" and "a proof of the lack."

--
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Re:Ontological argument by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 11:13 · Score: 0

(Reply from previous poster. More "Anonymous Lazy Bum" than "Anonymous Coward" anyway.)

Your response demonstrates exactly the viewpoint I'm countering. I'm not saying that people aren't wrong--what I'm saying is that you're predjudiced against them. Yes, there are a lot of complete nuts out there, but do you have evidence that it's a statistical majority? Are you really so sure you know what it is they believe? There are just as many nuts who use false science, psychology, statistics, mathematics, anything and everything.

Examine everything you know about "spiritualists, deists, and voodoo-types." Tell me where you got that information and how you know that it is accurate, trace every part of your argument back to an unquestionable source. Is the number of people that claim to shit gold sufficiently significant in relation to the population as a whole to justify your offhanded smartassery? Are you certain you haven't ignored some subset of the population which backs up their claims a statistically significant portion of the time, whether by limiting their claims or actually producing results, or both? Can you reliably disprove a significant portion of the claims made by people which the core of the community itself would choose as representative of their beliefs, and do so for each major applicable community? Hell, have you even tried to research the topic with an open mind?

If you can do all of that and avoid making any logical fallacies* at all, and still reach the unequivicable conclusion that the entire subject's bullshit, I'll build a bridge of toothpicks from here to Abu Dhabi.

We don't live strictly by the rules of scienfitic induction. You and me, like the people you're making fun of, are prone to accept a lot of complete bullshit without proof, and we don't realize how much of our daily lives is impacted by that. It's part of popular culture and our society in general, at least here in America.** We don't think things through if they're part of our daily lives, and the world is worse for it.

So like I said, prove me wrong.

*:Just a site found through google for a list of fallacies. ( http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm )

**:This is a personal predjudice of mine and should not be confused for a debatable point.
Re:Ontological argument by smash · 2005-07-09 10:44 · Score: 1

Of course I could be happier - thats what makes me get up and go to work in the morning to improve my situation.
Then again, none of those who go to church that I know of are "truly" happy either.

Murder, rape, etc has nothign to do with religion. I've seen just as many religious murderers/rapists/etc as not.

Religion isn't vital. Its just what you've been conditioned to believe.

smash.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Ontological argument by ThaReetLad · 2005-07-10 03:42 · Score: 1

I've not been conditioned to believe. I chose to believe just a little over 1a year ago because I was (and am) convinced of the historical accuracy of the Bible.

I didn't mean religion as in religious people, I meant the christian explaination of why there is murder/rape etc in the world at all. Secularism has not solved the issue of crime, and indeed has no answer beyond saying "punish the wrongdoers", and certainly has nothing to say about who we are or why we are here, except to say that everything is meaningless.

My argument about happiness was that without religion people try to define who they are by their job, their position at work, the house they own, or the car they drive. They think that if only I had this much money, or that woman as my girlfriend, THEN I would be happy. If they are luck or apply themselves they may get what they want, only to find it doesn't satisfy their desires. Christian teaching is that this constant searching for satisfaction in this world is futile, because we have been created to have an intimate relationship with the God who made us, and that only that can give us a true sense of contentment, peace and rest. At this time when people are living every busier lives, frantically search for personal meaning and happiness in work, sex, shopping etc, the message of rest and being content with what you have is one I think people need.

Christians are not people who have miraculously been changed into good people, they are simply people who have become aware of how bad they are and accept that if getting into heaven is something you have to earn, then not one human in all history would be good enough.

--
You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine

LOUD VOICES by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 0

and then...

Khhhaaaaaaaaannnnnn!

Mmmmm.... by feloneous+cat · 2005-06-27 08:27 · Score: 1

Cold, saline liquid....

(Make mine cold, saline, Margarita!)

--
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV

ObNethack by cswiii · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 5, Funny

What do you want to #rub? (w) - saline liquid What do you want to rub the vial of saline liquid with? (Q) - wand of cold The vial glows briefly. What do you want to wield? (w) - saline liquid (cold) You break the vial over the little dog's head. --more-- The little dog yelps! --more-- The little dog falls asleep. The zombie dog awakens! The zombie dog bites! --more-- The zombie dog bites!

Re:ObNethack by ThrobbingGristle · 2005-06-27 10:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

Slashdot needs more nethack jokes. Apple fanboys need education after all!
Re:ObNethack by ar1550 · 2005-06-27 12:55 · Score: 1

Sure, you laugh now, but when this is implemented in the next release and the Random Number God sees fit to have your zombie dog fulfill this scenario you'll see if Score:5, Funny was worth it.

--
I once shot a man in Reno 'cause they cancelled Firefly.
Re:ObNethack by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 13:24 · Score: 0

Pfft.

Everyone knows you use a wand of undead turning for that. I bring my pets back to life all the time with 'em!

Oh, and dogs are a tad passe; I polymorph them into black dragons (once I have disintegration resistance or reflection, of course).
Re:ObNethack by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 15:45 · Score: 0

You're having trouble getting it all down. Stop?

I volunteer for the test. by Morky · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 1

Not.

First human test subject... by Dragon218 · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 1

Probably is going to be Kiefer Sutherland.

--

"It's the little touches that make a future solid enough to be destroyed" --William S. Bourroughs

I swear by RingDev · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 0

After reading the drivle that escapes some /.ers' I actually feel dumber.

Literacy is a basic skill. Get it. Use it.

The sky is not falling.

They are not after you.

Take off the damn tin foil hat.

-Rick

--
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs

Re:I swear by greenegg77 · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 1

It's spelled "drivel", the apostrophe goes between the "r" and the "s", and you missed a comma.
Literacy is a basic skill. Get it. Use it.

And my tinfoil hat has multiple uses - it keeps my brains in, keeps the aliens/government/Microsoft out, and, most importantly, it protects me from brain-eating zombie dogs!

--
--- This .sig for sale - $500 OBO.
Re:I swear by RingDev · 2005-06-27 11:08 · Score: 0

Literacy is a basic skill. Grammer Nazism is an annoyance. -Rick

--
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs

Wow, good uses by Dejohn · 2005-06-27 08:28 · Score: 1

There are definitely uses for this! Sometimes my dog just won't be quiet. It would be great to cyrogenically freeze him up for a while and bring him back later!

Needed for upcoming military adventures. by CyricZ · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 1

Medical techniques such as this will be required for the upcoming American invasions of places like Iran and Syria. Unlike Iraq, Iran and Syria do have trained troops and standing militaries. Any incursions into their territory will lead to all out warfare of the worst kind. The casualities will be immense. If the America government wishes to keep the American public onside, then they will need to be able to minimize the casualties they suffer. Techology such as this may help, if it is possible to do it on the battle field.

--
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.

Re:Needed for upcoming military adventures. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 0

The armies of either Iran or Syria will be crushed within the first hours of a US invasion. Syria has no air force (destroyed by Israel). Iran's army was decimated by Iraq in the 1980s. The fact that Iran has been allowed to continue for as long as it has has always been a mystery to me. They should have been invaded and wiped out during the hostage crisis. Notice how quickly the hostages were released once that idiot peanut farmer was out of office.
Re:Needed for upcoming military adventures. by CyricZ · 2005-06-27 09:16 · Score: 0, Offtopic

The hostages were only released because the Reaganite Republicans were willing to give weapons to international terrorists. You are correct, Carter was unable to free them. But that was only because he was unwilling to cooperate and subsidize terrorists like the Republicans were willing to do.

--
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.

home experiment by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 0

I once put a roach in the freezer and it appeared dead. Later it came back to life with absolutely no brain damage.

Human trials will begin in the fall.

how long until the right wing neocons can this? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:29 · Score: 0

..or at least attempt to.

Re:how long until the right wing neocons can this? by OrangeTide · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 1

Frankenstein: science BAD!! ARRRRR

--
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Re:how long until the right wing neocons can this? by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · 2005-06-27 09:49 · Score: 1

I was thinking Ronald Reagan would be making a run in '08, actually.

--
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Re:how long until the right wing neocons can this? by oncebitten · 2005-06-27 10:00 · Score: 1

actually, i can envision terri schiavo's parents getting wind of this and crying on the news "see, we could've saved terri". and the neo-cons spinning it like crazy.

ugh.

I. From the Dark by fishbowl · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

Of Herbert West, who was my friend in college and in other life, I can speak only with extreme terror. This terror is not due altogether to the sinister manner of his recent disappearance, but was engendered by the whole nature of his lifework, and first gained its acute form more than seventeen years ago, when we were in the third year of our course at the Miskatonic University medical school in Arhkam. While he was with me, the wonder and diabolism of his experiments fascinated me utterly, and I was his closest companion. Now that he is gone, and the spell is broken, the actual fear is greater. Memories and possibilities are ever more hideous than realities.

--
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.

too big of a coincidence by mweier · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

the fact that this RSS feed was the first thing I read after finishing watching Vanilla Sky for the first time (about 5 min ago) seems a freaky coincidence. No, I'm not making this up.

"You know, life is full of surprises. But the greatest surprise of all is that this doesn't have to end.... ever... ... Take the example of Benny the Dog... Benny's a dog who was frozen for 3 months... and thawed out to live a normal life."
-Raymond Tooley, Vanilla Sky

Had the post here mentioned a dog in 3 months of cryogenic stasis (and named Benny?), I think I may have run screaming from the building (assuming I'm not in some sort of Lucid post-death dream).

--
digital artist, 3D animator, web designer, and otherwise technological creative type....

Welcome by LifeMatesCanada.Com · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 1

"I for one, welcome our new zombie overlords!"

--
Single? Canadian? We can help. Visit http://www.l

Re:$12 paypal to first reply to this post. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 0

billgates@microsoft.com

Resident Evil by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:30 · Score: 0

What no Resident Evil jokes modded up where I can see them? Is this Slashdot?

In other news... by Scott+Swezey · 2005-06-27 08:31 · Score: 1

Umbrella corperation has sealed off racoon city...

--
Scott Swezey

Think of the people! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:32 · Score: 0

Supposing for a moment this technology is what it appears, I just can't wait to see it banned.

Imagine the hysteria, dead people resurrected. The cult religions that may follow (some religions STILL object to blood transfusions!). Think of my poor mom, who keeps trying to tell me there must be a soul because somehow dead people get lighter due to the weight of their "soul" evaporating.

Will the first people who try this, and it works on, be branded as zombies and forbidden to enter various religious establishments?

Oh the fun!

Re:Think of the people! by lucabrasi999 · 2005-06-27 08:41 · Score: 1

Will the first people who try this, and it works on, be branded as zombies and forbidden to enter various religious establishments?
Well, I think Tom Cruise could still get them into Scientology....
Re:Think of the people! by Bingo+Foo · 2005-06-27 09:33 · Score: 1

Not if they spent all their money on the procedure already.

--
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Re:Think of the people! by EllisDees · 2005-06-27 09:41 · Score: 1

>Well, I think Tom Cruise could still get them into Scientology....

Where do you think they found him?

--
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Re:Think of the people! by spun · 2005-06-27 10:12 · Score: 1

(OT) Is it just me or has Tom Cruise gone completely off the deep end recently? Not that he was ever the brightest or most stable bulb on the christmas tree, but I think Scientology has irrevocably damaged his brain.

--
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Re:Think of the people! by shawb · 2005-06-27 11:00 · Score: 1

Are you prevented from entering most religions if you "become a zombie" because your heart is restarted with defibrulator paddles? Clinically dead just means the heart is no longer beating. Much different from brain dead.

--
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Re:Think of the people! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:38 · Score: 1, Funny

Tom Cruise just recently became a 7th level Scientologist. This means, of course, that he can now cast 4th level spells, and that's what we're seeing.

This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

On Sunday morning I was playing tennis with an older man I met in an online league. He was turning around to pick up a ball and he suffered a major heart attack and collapsed. His heart stopped for about 10 minutes on the tennis court while a girl from the court next to us performed CPR. He's in a coma in an ICU right now. The doctors said that stabilizing his heart is a primary concern right now, but that in the coming days discerning any damage done to his brain due to oxygen loss will become a primary concern.

One of the things the doctor told us was that they were going to actually induce hypothermia in him while he is in the ICU. Recent studies have provided evidence that doing so may limit the brain damage caused by the loss of oxygen to the brain. Of course, in his case, it was extremely important (and fortunate) that CPR was started soon after his heart stopped, thus limiting the loss of oxygen to his brain.

Hopefully studies like this will lead to more treatments which help people recover from heart failure.

Re:This hits home... by Brundylop · 2005-06-27 10:03 · Score: 1

I have mixed feelings on this subject. One side tells me to be "human" and that further research on this type of science may start saving lives, but the other side intervenes. In High School, I had a crazy Biology teacher who kept stressing overpopulation of humans. As one can assume, sooner or later there will be no more room for more humans on earth. Even if we do end up mowing down all of nature (unless we bomb ourselves to death or something) sooner or later there won't be enough food, shelter, etc for everybody. (something about a carrying capacity or something).

Which brings about the question: Are there too many humans on Earth? If yes, why try saving more? Death is a part of life, and it is unavoidable (and hopefully it will always be inevitable.) If the population is still booming this much with people dying left and right, how will delaying death help?

I know, I know, people are going to rebuke, "Well, you hypocrite bastard, if your family members could be saved by it, you'd jump on the opportunity." There's always that issue of "It'll happen, but I'll be long dead before anything like that happens."

Yeah, but do we want to live in a world without death?
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:08 · Score: 0

It's only in third world countries that the population is out of control. In all first world countries, population is below the replacement level. If we would ban immigration, first world countries could become paradise on earth with plenty of land for all citizens.
Re:This hits home... by Master+of+Transhuman · 2005-06-27 10:41 · Score: 0, Troll

You're incredibly ignorant of the possibilities, not to mention the basic concepts of the entire issue.

So I have to say I hope I don't live in a world where YOU won't die.

There aren't too many people in the world - just too many morons.

We Transhumans will fix that in due time.

Have a nice day.

--
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Re:This hits home... by ars · 2005-06-27 11:10 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Which brings about the question: Are there too many humans on Earth? If yes, why try saving more?
Nope, there is plenty of room on earth. There is plenty of food, and everything else.
The only reason some people are starving is oppressive governments. And some distribution issues, but those can be solved, what's harder is stopping governments like Zimbabwe's which would not permit the World Food Programme to distibute food to starving poor.

--
-Ariel
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:15 · Score: 0

Have you ever looked at the sattelite images of the Earth on Google? There are vast quantities of unused land. Humanity probably doesn't even touch 10% of the stuff.

You've been looking at too much "there is not enough food to feed everybody" propaganda.

The US alone is estimated to have enough unused food to feed a lot of africa. The problem is getting it there, with all the warlords etc. (And if the US intervenes, everyone will start ranting on about unjust wars.)
Re:This hits home... by timbo234 · 2005-06-27 11:17 · Score: 1

RTFA this is not an immortality treatment - they reckon it can be used to help save people who have suffered severe blood loss. By your logic that we should just let people die because of population concerns we should strip all our hospitals of life-support machines too.

Anyway the population thing its not quite as bad as people used to fear say back in the 70's and so on. The world population growth rate is actually reducing significantly and the population growth curve is levelling off because of declinig fertility rates.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/09/10707322 12097.html?from=storyrhs
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3444

Given that the largest war in history (World War 2) only killed 50-100 million ppl I don't see how holding back medical treatments is going to have any significant affect on population growth or decline. Its been proven time and time again that the only way to control population is through sensible family planning.

--
Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
Re:This hits home... by NormalVisual · 2005-06-27 13:53 · Score: 1

As one can assume, sooner or later there will be no more room for more humans on earth.

Two words: Vegan choriomeningitis. Fixes things right up every time.

--
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Re:This hits home... by h0llywood · 2005-06-27 14:04 · Score: 1

I disagree. There are way to many humans on Earth. I am fairly certain that we have reached or exceeded carrying capacity to maintain life while preserving ecological diversity and a minimal standard of living. As for the World Food program, it is wonderfully intentioned however giving food to the starving in places where there populations cannot subsist ultimately leads to even bigger problems down the road. Evolution folks... the laws also apply to people. Check out Jared Diamond's new book Collapse I think that you might find it interesting. Although he advocates a different position than my own.
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 14:39 · Score: 0

Disagree all you want. Doesn't mean you're not full of shit.
Re:This hits home... by flycrg · 2005-06-27 14:47 · Score: 1

The Malthusian argument, populations increase exponentially yet resources generally increase only linerally
Re:This hits home... by Chowderbags · 2005-06-27 16:29 · Score: 1

Over the past 50 years, the amount of farmland in cultivation in developped countries has consistently decreased. Overall yield, though, has consistantly increased. Better fertalizers, pesticides, and more and more geneticly modified foods will continue to increase production. Malthus was wrong on both the exponential population increase and the geometric food production increase. Why anyone still buys into it long after it's been disproven, I can't fathom.
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 17:06 · Score: 0

Its been proven time and time again that the only way to control population is through sensible family planning.

Disagree. The Black Death caused a significant population reduction in Europe. Same goes for the wars of the Mongol Empire, the 1918 pandemic, and other horrific events throughout history. None of these really come under the head of "family planning."

Kill enough people, and the population will decrease.
Re:This hits home... by ars · 2005-06-27 17:28 · Score: 1

The anon who replied to you put it rather less delicately, but you are quite wrong.

The only reason they are starving in the first place is their government (which taxes them to death, and won't let them own, or even farm land, breaks up families so you have no continuity or training, etc). So it's hardly fair to apply evolutionary ideas to them.

You write that you are "fairly certain that we have reached or exceeded carrying capacity to maintain life while preserving ecological diversity and a minimal standard of living." However that is utter noncence, if you want to pull such statements from thin air you better back them up.

Just as a tiny example: how much food gets thrown away every day in the US? Additionally people eat far more then they really need to. So you can easily manage more people just using current stocks.

Not to mention that their is plenty of room for new growth. Are you aware that the US pays farmers not to grow certain crops because there is a surplus?

You are really underinformed regarding the planet. You might not know this, but it's quite big - regardless of how it might look, humans only occupy something like 1% of it. Although the impact is larger then 1%, my point is that there is plenty of space.

And let not even get started on declining birth rates which is a far greater threat then overpopulation ever could be.

--
-Ariel
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 20:24 · Score: 0

Girl, performing CPR: I think we got here in time.. He can be saved.
Boy, watching: huh huh, you're kissing him.. hu huh huh
Girl: No I'm not, this is CPR!
Boy: I think he's dead.. huh huh you're kissing a corpse.. huh huh
Girl: Ewww! (stops CPR)
Re:This hits home... by daikokatana · 2005-06-27 21:26 · Score: 1

"Yeah, but do we want to live in a world without death?"
Sure - why not? Consider the following: a world without death and without birth. This would keep the population level at the current level.

Since you'd be immortal by choice, the population would even be reduced (think suicide).

Personally, I'd very much like to be immortal, or have a longer livespan than most people nowadays.

--
http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
Re:This hits home... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 21:47 · Score: 0

It's a lot easier and ethically pleasant to decrease birth rates than to increase death rates. There is a strong correlation between low infant mortality rates and low birth rates (if you're pretty sure all your kids will survive, you won't have as many). Infant mortality can be decreased by providing adequate food and medical care to people in areas where high birth rates are a problem. If continued, this will in the long run lead to a substantial decrease in population growth. Of course, it only takes a few years of war/famine and high mortality to make people switch back to having lots of kids and then you have to start over again.
Re:This hits home... by Hoarke42 · 2005-06-28 01:43 · Score: 1

Are you aware that the US pays farmers not to grow certain crops because there is a surplus?

Aren't the payments an incentive to use a crop rotation technique of letting land sit idle a year to replenish nutrients? The payments are to prevent overfarming by reducing temporary benefits of farming the land non-stop.
Re:This hits home... by tabrnaker · 2005-06-28 03:57 · Score: 1

YOu forgot the overall increase in disease and fatness due to the horrible toxic quality of these 'high yield technologies'.
Only good if you want to keep spreading the disease culture.
Re:This hits home... by holt · 2005-06-28 05:44 · Score: 1

I don't think so. I'm fairly certain our farm gets paid a certain amount every year by the government to let a certain percentage of our land go unused. Of course, we manage it so that the percentage that we don't use corresponds with land that's barely usable in the first place, but that's just good business sense.
Re:This hits home... by h0llywood · 2005-06-28 07:38 · Score: 1

If you look to the original commentary... Standard of living, quality of life and sustainability are the important issues. Carrying capacity in a particular environment is a delicate issue, the only certainty is that if it is exceeded the results will be catastrophic not just for the third world but the whole world. Both in the case of human quality of life, and also biodiversity. I honestly don't want the only animals my daughter will have the chance to see sitting in a cage. I have not pulled my statements from thin air however carrying capacity is an issue of such complexity that it can be used as a tool for the wrong purposes, in particular those of the radical right. Similar to the arguments made against global warming... we all know there is no problem with global warming... because the "facts" are not known. As for declining birth rates this is only true of the west and not the third world. Regarding farm subsidies, I live in the heartland, my parents have a cornfield in their back yard. I understand the huge corporate give aways... and oil dependant agribusiness in the US. It is only a matter of time before the system collapses... it is ultimately unsustainable. Every day we squander so many resources...
Re:This hits home... by timbo234 · 2005-06-28 11:01 · Score: 1

I was talking about human actions to decrease population as the GGP was saying that new medical treatments like this should be witheld for over-population reasons.

--
Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.

brains.... brains.... by Thud457 · 2005-06-27 08:34 · Score: 5, Funny

Sweet zombie Jesus, how can you tell if a dog has brain-damage anyhow? They already eat their own shit if you don't stop them.

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:brains.... brains.... by ZiakII · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 1

Sweet zombie Jesus, how can you tell if a dog has brain-damage anyhow? They already eat their own shit if you don't stop them.

I'm guessing you don't have a dog do you, you can easily tell if your dog is sick, not feeling well or if something is not right with him, and so do babys.. and we can tell if there brain dead or not.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Johnboi+Waltune · 2005-06-27 08:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

Funniest. Comment. EVAR.

I suppose the serious answer to your question is that they can formulate controlled tests to observe and record the dog's behavior and response to stimuli, both before and after the experiment, and note any discrepancies. (i.e. when presented with a piece of his own shit, the dog chowed down on it before the experiment, but did not do so afterwards.)

With all the experimentation that's already done on dogs, I don't doubt there's already a standard battery of tests to gauge their neurological function.

--
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:16 · Score: 0

On the way home from work today you might want to stop at the gas station and pick up a SENSE OF HUMOR. They're usually next to the salted peanuts and the "beef" jerky.

Besides, there's a reason "dog" alliterates with "duh".
Re:brains.... brains.... by P3NIS_CLEAVER · 2005-06-27 09:32 · Score: 3, Funny

People doo this too. You haven't been on teh internet very long have you?

--
Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

http://financialpetition.org/
Re:brains.... brains.... by robertjw · 2005-06-27 09:36 · Score: 1

They probably test to see if they are MORE brain-damaged. I think my dogs are brain damaged to start with. Of course they might just be dumb...

--
Find coupons in Greeley
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:42 · Score: 0

" On the way home from work today you might want to stop at the gas station and pick up a SENSE OF HUMOR."

Now we know where you managed to find your humor.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Afrosheen · 2005-06-27 09:49 · Score: 3, Funny

They originally tested the methods on cats, but the cats were determined to be equally brain damaged before and after the testing. They would respond only marginally to any kind of stimulus and would not come when called.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Proney · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 1

You could tell them something sarcastic and see if they get it...

--
require "something.clever";
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:13 · Score: 0

Yeah, Slashdot isn't the place for your greasy gas station humor.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:13 · Score: 0

Guess you'ver never had a dog who ate his own shit so STFU. We had a dog that ate his own shit and no one ever shoved his nose in anything. He had 2 acres of land to himself and he ate his own shit anyway. He was also was famous for making "shit beds" in his dog house. That fucking dog.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Black.Shuck · 2005-06-27 10:24 · Score: 1

Sweet zombie Jesus

I think that's the whole point...
Re:brains.... brains.... by dumpster_d · 2005-06-27 11:00 · Score: 1

They already eat their own shit if you don't stop them.

I think you just spawned a whole new movie genre.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:00 · Score: 1, Interesting

Don't be stupid.

Dogs will "eat their own shit," if you feed them food they can't digest... so their crap is still "food."
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:14 · Score: 0

Sweet zombie Jesus, how can you tell if a dog has brain-damage anyhow? They already eat their own shit if you don't stop them.

That's because dogs are very environmentally conscious animals, to them that's recycling. :-P
Re:brains.... brains.... by X0563511 · 2005-06-27 11:30 · Score: 1

You must not have met the right dogs. I have never had a stupid dog, most have been extremely intelligent in their own way. They definatly developed a personality.

--
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re:brains.... brains.... by GreyPoopon · 2005-06-27 13:30 · Score: 1

They would respond only marginally to any kind of stimulus and would not come when called.
More importantly, they switched to dogs to avoid the "revenge factor" that is involved with experimenting on cats.

--
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Re:brains.... brains.... by meloman · 2005-06-27 15:01 · Score: 2, Funny

If cats don't come when called, I'll say it's a sign of intelligence. They just don't give a sh*t about you! :)

--
http://www.vivahate.org/
Stay home, be bored. It's crap, I KNOW!
Re:brains.... brains.... by coopex · 2005-06-27 15:29 · Score: 1

Oh that's gonna be *real* useful.

--
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Afrosheen · 2005-06-27 15:39 · Score: 1

Yeah, yeah, we all saw Steven King's awful adaptation for the screen, Pet Sematery (sp). Undead cats would probably cause lots of havoc, what with all the screeching and clawing.
Re:brains.... brains.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 18:20 · Score: 0

Why do you put "eat their own shit" in quotes? It's not like that's a controversial description of picking up their feces with their mouth, chewing and swallowing it...
Re:brains.... brains.... by leifbk · 2005-06-27 20:51 · Score: 1

They would respond only marginally to any kind of stimulus and would not come when called.

Sounds like a job for the Confuse-A-Cat, Ltd.

--
I used to be a sceptic. These days, I'm not so certain.
Re:brains.... brains.... by robertjw · 2005-06-28 02:44 · Score: 1

Umm... didn't say I never met a smart dog. I said mine aren't - but actually that's not true either.

My basset, who is a puppy almost a year old, can figure out how to pull the pet door open. OTOH, she runs around and barks at the lawn mower when I'm cutting the grass.

--
Find coupons in Greeley

What a brave, new world ... by eck011219 · 2005-06-27 08:35 · Score: 1

How long before I can do this to my neighbor's dog without getting out of bed? Eight hours of uninterrupted sleep, here I come!

--
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Amazing advance if this proves true by Solr_Flare · 2005-06-27 08:35 · Score: 1

Frankly, this would be the single biggest advancement in medical science since the discovery of antibiotics, and would likely eclipse all others if this proves to be true.

It is very easy to make light of this because there is no way not to be incredibly skeptical of this entire experiment. It most definitely sounds like a "cold fusion" moment for medical science(ie detailed claims that no one can reproduce).

However, this is not a light matter. This is one technology that, god willing works, would save millions of lives and open up new avenues for all of mankind.

How many times has someone died enroute(or on) the operating table only to have someone exclaim "if only I had a few minutes more".

How many times have you heard about blood supplies being dangerously low in some areas/countries.

How many lives could be saved if they could cheat time and death for a short while until a cure is discovered.

And, of course, how many worlds could we explore with technology like this?

That is just the begining of what a hybernation technology like this could bring to mankind. So, while I agree completely that I am above and beyond doubtful that this is real, and am certainly not going to get my hopes up for this in any fashion until it has been confirmed, replicated, and reproduced in multiple situations by hundreds of non-partisan scientists and doctors, this is still, regardless, not a light matter.

This is an announcement that should be scrutinized with all seriousness, analyzed in every detail, then either the highest praise mankind can grant bestowed on this discovery, or the harshest of responses given depending on the truth(or levels of truth) in these claims.

--
You are who you are, let no one tell you different. But, never close your mind to a new point of view.

Briny Barnacle Bill by Doc+Ruby · 2005-06-27 08:36 · Score: 1

No wonder 400-year old pirates walk around calling each other "you salty dog".

--

--
make install -not war

In soviet russia by petteri_666 · 2005-06-27 08:36 · Score: 1

In soviet russia they have been doing this for years. There is even an old video in Internet Archive (it seems to be down at the moment), where they kill some dog and bring it back to life.

Re:In soviet russia by fishbowl · 2005-06-27 09:40 · Score: 1

Zombie dogs revive YOU!

Sorry. Had to do it.

--
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Re:In soviet russia by de+Selby · 2005-06-27 10:51 · Score: 1

We did the same things in the US in the 70s as those Russians did. From what I remember, the blood was not removed. I assume there are even more differences than that between the old methods and the new.

Welcome by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:37 · Score: 0

I, for one, welcome our new zombie overlords.

MOD PARENT UP by CoderBob · 2005-06-27 08:37 · Score: 1

So people can see that this is talked about elsewhere...

Alvaro Garza, Fargo ND, 1987 by 93,000 · 2005-06-27 08:37 · Score: 4, Informative

Underwater for 45 minutes and made a full recovery. Water was obviously very cold.

--
Sweet informative mod.

Re:Alvaro Garza, Fargo ND, 1987 by brer_rabbit · 2005-06-27 10:54 · Score: 3, Funny

by full recovery, you mean this person was able to socially interact with other people from North Dakota? You sure he wasn't dead?
Re:Alvaro Garza, Fargo ND, 1987 by 93,000 · 2005-06-28 01:22 · Score: 1

As comedian Tim Bedore says of the midwest: "Where the introverts stare at their shoes, and the extroverts stare at your shoes."

But make no mistake, I'm damn charming.

--
Sweet informative mod.

I'll bet that... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:37 · Score: 0

Many boffins died to bring us this information.

OT: Technically by einhverfr · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

Necromancy originally meant something like "divining by use of the dead" such as summoning the spirit of an ancestor to ask about an important matter. Necro (Death) + Mancy (Divination). I guess though seances would qualify under this definition.

Reanimating the dead was placed into this category much later, though beliefs about this practice....

As a completely off-topic side-note, William Butler Yeates (the Nobel Prize-winning poet) was kicked out of the Theosophical society for experiments in necromancy. He was trying to summon the spirits of dead flowers.

--

LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP

Doesn't count by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 0

For obvious reasons.

Unfortunately.... by borawjm · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 1

Many boffins died to bring us this information.

/ someone had to say it

High Quality News Source by BuckaBooBob · 2005-06-27 08:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

Just look at a list of other stories they are currently covering

12-year-old girl gets divorce
Goats recruited to fight bushfires
Scientists create robot lobster
The most dangerous day of the week
Cookie trail leads to suspects
Soldiers steal tank to buy vodka
Bonking, brawls and booze
Man gets $2600 for plaster Jesus
New shop to turn away the rich
Sticky stunt's disastrous end

Drop the story and move on :)

--
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt

Re:High Quality News Source by ziggy_zero · 2005-06-27 10:39 · Score: 1

Uhhh, and if you look at the heading above that list, you'll see those are all from "The Other Side", their equivalent of Yahoo's Oddly Enough, or any other news site's "weird news" section. Just because it's strange (to the general public) doesn't mean it's not true - check out the other postings with links to the Scientific American article and I believe some other peer-reviewed articles on the same subject from more reputable sources. This was just a case of using a shitty link.

Sidenote, what the fuck are boffins?

--
I belong to the ______ generation.
Re:High Quality News Source by Captain+Nitpick · 2005-06-27 11:16 · Score: 1

Drop the story and move on :)

The real reason to drop the story and move on is that Scientific American covered it better last month.

--
But then again, I could be wrong.
Re:High Quality News Source by lgbarker · 2005-06-27 11:47 · Score: 1

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boffins
In the slang of the United Kingdom, boffins are scientists, engineers, and other people who are stereotypically seen as engaged in technical or scientific research. The word conjures up images of older men in thick spectacles and white lab coats working with complicated chemical apparatus.
Re:High Quality News Source by Bruce+Perens · 2005-06-27 13:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Goats really do fight brush fires. They eat the brush. The park district brings them around here twice a year.

--
Bruce Perens.
Re:High Quality News Source by saskboy · 2005-06-27 14:45 · Score: 1

"Man gets $2600 for plaster Jesus"

Oh I was wondering what Shower Jesus sold for. Thanks :-)

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:High Quality News Source by nukeindia.com · 2005-06-27 14:48 · Score: 1

I can readily identify reading at least five titles from this list in the past few months on either yahoo news or google news service. You can google the titles to verify.

This list makes the source more trustworthy, not less.
Re:High Quality News Source by euxneks · 2005-06-27 18:39 · Score: 1

That was under the category: "The Other Side"

If you click on breaking news, it seems fairly respectable enough.. I'll wait til I see this on CBC though.

--
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Re:High Quality News Source by BuckaBooBob · 2005-06-28 02:38 · Score: 1

I didn't say They were untrue... Just looking at the nice list of stroies they are also covering it would apear little to no actual reseach was done on the part of the writer, not to mention interesting content was near 0.. Post it from a diffrent source.. Just looking at the headlines they have makes ya wanna skip any articles they are covering anyway...

Post from a source that has some intergity..

--
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt

The Ramones by stretch0611 · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

The article is currently slashdotted...

However, now I can't get the Ramones song out of my mind from the Stephen King Movie Pet Cemetary.

... I don't want to be buried, in a pet cemetary, I don't want to live my life again...
Full Lyrics here.

--
Looking for a job?
Want your resume written professionally?
DON'T USE TUNAREZ!!!

Actual article abstract by Vile+Slime · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 4, Informative

See here:

http://www.aemj.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/12/1341

--
---- Go ahead, mod me down, I'll just post it again and you lose your mod points.

Re:Actual article abstract by Lemuridae · 2005-06-27 10:08 · Score: 1

Finally a link to something with content.

It looks like the real point of this exercise is to keep people alive that have totally bled out at the scene. Currently you can't revive these cases which makes sense since you don't have any fluid volume at all so the heart, arteries, and veins are essentially deflated. You probably end up having clotting factors being triggered and the entire system gums up with no chance for revival.

The combination of the mechanics of adding fluid volume together with the application of cold to slow down metabolism buys you the extra time required to get blood products back into the system and circulating.

And in other news.... by zappepcs · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

In related news, Microsoft (Redmond, Wa.) announced that its Life 1.0 technology will be an integral part of the long awaited Longhorn Operating System software.

While the unnamed spokesperson could not explain if the Life 1.0 technology would work with Intel hardware, they did explain that its the intent of Microsoft to ensure that users can safely use the Internet for longer and longer periods of time, despite any life threatening illnesses the user might have.

Further announcements are expected regarding how Life 1.0 will be woven in to the accessability functions for Longhorn.

--
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People

Come on now... by Jack+Johnson · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

An Australian news site quoting "battlefied doctors" with regards to research supposedly performed at pitt.edu? Half a glance would have told anyone who can read that this story is BS.

Zombie Bitch From Hell by ClosedGL · 2005-06-27 08:40 · Score: 1

Soon there will be no escape from your mother in law!

Re:Zombie Bitch From Hell by Yaotzin · 2005-06-27 09:43 · Score: 1

If you destroy the body she'll have no body to return to.
*evil chuckle*

--
Error: No error occurred

Off Topic??? by Ted+Holmes · 2005-06-27 08:42 · Score: 1

Zombie dogs are a result of Biotech. My original response (Biotech is Moving Fast) places some context around it using several other examples in which we are beginning to defy evolution and mortality.

How is that off topic?

Ted

--

Thoughts on the Emergence of Computing Intelligence

Jean-Claude van Dam - UAC - Haliburton - #57-3872 by Thud457 · 2005-06-27 08:42 · Score: 1

What's this metal box on the back of my neck, and why does it keep beeping?

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Philosophical implications. by ZeroExistenZ · 2005-06-27 08:43 · Score: 1

So if you can die, and wake up after a decent period of "being dead", does that mean that there is no soul? Cause many believe after death, your soul "parts from the body".

So if the body "is dead", and the "soul" does not part in a decent amount of time to sustain the dogma on this experiment. Then.. wouldn't cremation being utterly cruel?

I'll chuckle when the religions fanatics chew on that.

--
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1

Re:Philosophical implications. by Verminator · 2005-06-27 08:47 · Score: 1

You are assuming it's the same "soul" "waking up."
Perhaps not.

--
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
Re:Philosophical implications. by jthayden · 2005-06-27 08:58 · Score: 1

I'll chuckle when the religions fanatics chew on that.
I think they probably already have. Considering that people have been revived after being legally dead after drowning in cold water. I know that they've succeded for up to at least 45 minutes without brain damage. I'm sure they have some excuse for this. Heck considering people's near death experiences and seeing white lights, they probably think this is proof.
Re:Philosophical implications. by dethlejd · 2005-06-27 09:02 · Score: 1

Perhaps the soul knows that it's going to be able to come back and then just camps out for tickets.

- J
Re:Philosophical implications. by Capt_Troy · 2005-06-27 09:28 · Score: 1

Hopefully not at the wrong body though.

You know somebody would say it... by j00bar · 2005-06-27 08:43 · Score: 2, Funny

"And I, for one, welcome our new zombie dog overlords." -j00

--
When all you have is a hammer, everybody looks like a Messiah.

HIV? by SilkBD · 2005-06-27 08:43 · Score: 1

Now, I'm certainly NOT a doctor or in anyway related to the medical field... but...

If you completely drain someone's infected HIV blood... flush their system out with this frigid saline solution... and then refill them with clean blood....

would this not be a cure for AIDS?

--
00101010

Re:HIV? by jthayden · 2005-06-27 08:53 · Score: 1

I'm also not a doctor, but considering the virus can be transmitted by other bodily fluids and not just blood, I'm guessing no.
Re:HIV? by srock2588 · 2005-06-27 09:39 · Score: 1

I also have no medical background, but keeping the body cold for a long time may be helpful. I do not believe HIV virus can survive under cold temperatures. But, it may just remain dormant like the rest of the body meaning it will be 'revived' with the rest of the body.

--
Ehh...this is the life we chose.
Re:HIV? by TheWormThatFlies · 2005-06-27 23:40 · Score: 1

If you completely drain someone's infected HIV blood... flush their system out with this frigid saline solution... and then refill them with clean blood.... would this not be a cure for AIDS?

Um, no. HIV is a virus. It enters the cells of an infected person, and hijacks the replicating processes of a cell's nucleus in order to replicate itself. It is merely transmitted through the blood and other bodily fluids. Flushing out the transmission medium once wouldn't be very helpful.
Re:HIV? by SilkBD · 2005-06-28 09:18 · Score: 1

Right, the HIV Virus infects "CD4+ helper T-cell" which are located in the blood.

--
00101010
Re:HIV? by The+Lynxpro · 2005-06-28 11:29 · Score: 1

"If you completely drain someone's infected HIV blood... flush their system out with this frigid saline solution... and then refill them with clean blood....
would this not be a cure for AIDS?"

Whatever happened to the folks that were part of the blood boiling experiment in South Africa?

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Re:HIV? by TheWormThatFlies · 2005-06-28 20:40 · Score: 1

Right, the HIV Virus infects "CD4+ helper T-cell" which are located in the blood.

No, T-cells are lymphocytes, and thus found mostly in the lymphatic system, although they also enter the blood. HIV is found in all bodily fluids.
Re:HIV? by juhaz · 2005-06-28 20:58 · Score: 1

Even if the free floating virions would be somehow suspectible to cold, the viral RNA/DNA that is already within infected host cells would instantly start producing new virus particles when that cell recovers.

MOD PARENT UP -- Link to Journal Article by edibleplastic · 2005-06-27 08:43 · Score: 1

The parent's got a great link to an actual journal article detailing the specifics of the procedure.

Re:$12 paypal to first reply to this post. by prestonmichaelh · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Okay, I'll bite. notserpmh@yahoo.com

Hello! Human fly here! by Baron+von+Blapp · 2005-06-27 08:44 · Score: 1

"I, for one, welcome our new canine zombie overlords."

Also reminds me of another quote when I think about the humans that would volunteer for this...

"I take lungs now, gills come next week."

--
"It's too bad she won't live, but then again who does?" - Gaff

purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:45 · Score: 0

For what purpose? Would i really want fido to come back after his trip to the "farm"?

All fun and games until they get hungry for brains. (Return of the Living Dead)

Another use... by 8086ed · 2005-06-27 08:46 · Score: 1

Another use might be to remove blood parasites without harming tissues (other than the blood itself, which could be worked with outside of the body). Maybe, MAYBE, it could be used to help rid a body of viruses like AIDS.

Re:Another use... by shawb · 2005-06-27 11:06 · Score: 1

Major problem with this is that viruses (or at least retro-viruses, such as aids) don't just hide in the blood, they encode themselves in the DNA of the host. I think we'd need a trick a little better than blood filtering for this.

--
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman

A tad sensational by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:46 · Score: 0

It's a little sensational to claim they brought them back to life as the dogs hadn't "died", it's more like they succesfully put dogs into stasis rather then bringing them back to life after they had died. It's not like they'll be able to bring back lil johny's dog who was hit by a car.

Terry by ta+ma+de · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 1

I knew there was a reason we should have kept Terry Schiavo alive. Damn.

I was ready to call this a joke... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 1, Interesting

This is definitely a sensationalized story, but I also found this link buried on the US national institute of health website that contains an abstract of (at least a very similar) experiment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd= Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12771628&dopt=Abstrac t

Sig by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:48 · Score: 0

That's a deliberate error in your sig, then? Some sort of attempt at irony, yes? Is that why they call you Slasdot's comic genius? Oh wait, that isn't you...never mind...

unethical by Vellmont · 2005-06-27 08:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

And I think that meets most any test for being medically unethical. I'm sure there's people willing to do it for a ton of money, but that doesn't make it right.

The FDA has to approve any medical studies conducted in the US. There's absolutely no way they'd approve a study of perfectly healthy people that are subjected to a test where there's a large unknown factor of whether they'd die, suffer permanent brain damage, etc. Replacing someones blood with saline, then taking them to "clinical death" for three hours is something that would only be tried if the patient was going to die anyway given current treatment and this procedure might save their life.

--
AccountKiller

Legal implications by I+don't+want+to+spen · 2005-06-27 08:49 · Score: 1

Since this refers to the US, are there problems with doctors in effect ordering a patient's death - even if they expect to be able to revive them? Also, would a person's will come into effect when they die - is there a duration of death required for this to happen? Just a thought!

--
Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth

Re:This world is truly in a downard spiral by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 0

No you're going to hell anyways since you don't go to church weekly like the brainwashed masses. Geeze get a life freak. Fuggin hippies.

Holy *&^#! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 0

One side effect of the whole procedure: The dog comes back mad as hell! (as seen by the picture)

Horror Movies and Science by sameerdesai · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 1

If you have noted lately that directors are now making movies and try to give some scientific proofs (read Godzilla, etc.). This can become a new premise for Romero to produce another horror flik (read Land of the Dead part 2).

Might need more than that. by einhverfr · 2005-06-27 08:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

The problem with the bends is that small nitrogen bubbles form in the blood. This is not an issue of breathing per se but rather general issues with presurized gasses and water.

I personally think that this idea might have merit, but it might require more than just blood replacement to work for deep sea rescues. For example, the lungs are still full of air, right? What effect does the pressure have on this? Do you still ge tthe bends unless you remove all the air from the lungs? How difficult is this do to well enough?

Or maybe another way might be to cover the face with a rubber mask, place the body in normal-pressure water, and then encapsulate this in another iron pod. Such a pod might be fairly easily be built small (just needs to be big enough to fit your largest crew member).

--

LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP

Re:Might need more than that. by BiggerIsBetter · 2005-06-27 11:28 · Score: 1

I imagine your chest could destructively compress? It's possible to breath oxygen rich liquids, so this might work around that problem. http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2002/shorrock /3-%20%20Liquid_breathing.htm

--
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.

The news section is all fake. by Fizzleboink · 2005-06-27 08:51 · Score: 1

Scientists Create Robot Lobster http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15742019-1376 2,00.html Come on... editors.

Certainly not anecdotal by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:51 · Score: 0

You're not up on your history, are you? I suggest you read up on the works of the famed historians Lee and Kirby. Then you would know the story of the drowning/freezing of Captain America and his revival by the Avengers many years late.

That right there takes it out of the realm of anecdotal and into the realm of factual.

Re:replaced the blood with cold saline liquid, huh by yourfnmom · 2005-06-27 08:53 · Score: 1

HA! Thanks for that.

So I assume by Alive by SwItCH_LiVEs · 2005-06-27 08:54 · Score: 0

That they mean the organs are functional, and functioning?

I picture the dog being kept alive on machines, not hopping and barking out the fun of puppy heaven.

Obligatory by Mixel · 2005-06-27 08:55 · Score: 0, Redundant

I, for one, welcome our new Zombie Canine Overlords.

Re:It bothers me... (drudge) by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:55 · Score: 0

If it (meaning Matt Drudge) really bothers you, why do you read THEDRUDGEREPORT then? (I mean, you obviously read both concurrently if you know that Drudge has the story first).

There is no god by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 0

If, by this method, you can successfully put a human being in a state of death and then revive them to the same physical and mental state as they were initially then this will finally prove that there is no afterlife and there is no god.

Jesus wouldn't have to confirm he wasn't a script.

Re:There is no god by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:07 · Score: 0

Ok bright spark. How about you try create a working human in the first place from scratch using raw materials. Or how about a brain, and eyeball, or something? Can't? Heh! Man cannot create life from non-life. They have tried, but failed so often. Can't even make an amoeba. LOL. Now where's your theory?
Re:There is no god by Widowwolf · 2005-06-27 09:50 · Score: 1

Ahh but man creates new things every day, white blood cells..and who said we were creating anything...the big bang takes care of that Where are all the dinosaurs in the bible..dont tell me ..Gods practical joke?..Just remember there is no DOG..only Zombie Spot

--
~~"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~~Dennis Miller
Re:There is no god by pontifier · 2005-06-27 13:22 · Score: 1

we can make viruses.

--
-John Fenley

Fun.. by proteonic · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

Okay, so asuming that you're one of the human volunteers (which is really creepy, but bear with me), I think it would be a hell of a lot of fun to wake up from this procedure and scare the crap out of everyone by pretending to be a zombie.

**patient opens eyes**

Doc: Hello, sir. How do you feel.

... pause...

** patient grabs doctor's head while gnashing teeth and shrieking**

Doesn't work out too well... by The+Great+Wazzoo · 2005-06-27 08:56 · Score: 1

...with humans. Evidence here.

Sorry It had to be said... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 08:57 · Score: 0

I for one welcome our undead cryogenically hibernated and revived zombie dog overlords

Awesome technology by mnmn · 2005-06-27 08:57 · Score: 1

This has been the best slashdot news in days.

Cryogenic sleeping is very interesting. For one, reaching Mars seems far more possible this way, heck even being lurched into the intergalactical space like the Pioneer spacecraft is doable.

Secondly, people can now pour their worth into high-yield savings accounts and freeze themselves for a few decades. Heck a better idea is to buy lots of empty land close to a city and freeze yourself for a decade. When you get up, the land will be in the middle of a downtown.

They say time is precious, partly because our lives are limited in time. This doesnt break the limit of time we live in, but breaks the limit of time we can exist in. Its half-way to being immortal and a dog is pretty darn close physiologically to humans.

--
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky

Re:Awesome technology by Gondola · 2005-06-27 09:12 · Score: 1

Well, assuming that this technology is perfected, and no risk, you still end up with the issues of everyone you knew is (older|dead), and you are out of touch with technology and current events.

I don't think this kind of medical procedure would ever be without risk.

But yeah, sounds great. I'd love to put my 5-figure savings in the bank and take a 60-year nap and be a millionaire when I wake up.
Re:Awesome technology by seven+of+five · 2005-06-27 16:01 · Score: 1

But yeah, sounds great. I'd love to put my 5-figure savings in the bank and take a 60-year nap and be a millionaire when I wake up.

And then find out a loaf of bread is $5,000.

Monkeys before humans.. by Gondola · 2005-06-27 08:58 · Score: 1

Since monkeys are much more intelligent and similar to humans, wouldn't it make sense to move to monkey testing before humans?

"AMY GOOD GIRL."

"AMY LIKE BRAINS!"

Cellular Perforation by MeMatt · 2005-06-27 08:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ice crystals perforating cells was an issue in the past... has this been address? (No, I didn't RTFO yet, I thought someone would mention it).

Re:Cellular Perforation by iggymanz · 2005-06-27 09:11 · Score: 1

the article mentioned the body temperature of the dogs dropped to 7 degrees C, above freezing
Re:Cellular Perforation by Hartree · 2005-06-28 17:58 · Score: 1

As someone else mentioned, this was above freezing.

That said, there is work on vitrifying (freezing so fast crystals can't form) tissue and then using that for long term storage of grafts or perhaps even whole organs.

Small things can be frozen very quickly. The larger the item, the harder it is to do.

We'll have to wait a bit before putting Han Solo in carbon freeze.

Canine Cognitive Tests? by DCheesi · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

How do they know that the dogs have no brain damage? Do they have some sort of doggy IQ test to judge their before and after performance? With humans there are many sophisticated tests for various cognitive functions, but for dogs..? "Well, zombie-Fido scored 100 on the stick-fetching test, so he's obviously in perfect condition..."?

Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by the_2nd_coming · 2005-06-27 09:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

Brain damage is measured in dead areas of the brain, not by cognitive tests. you are mixing up the terms.

Brain damage = damage to the brain

Cognitively Impaired = IQ 70 (or 75 if you are going by the education definition)

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by OneFix+at+Work · 2005-06-27 09:53 · Score: 1

This is just a guess...and I am not a doctor, but I would figure they would teach the dog to do something...walk a course, press a button when a bell rings, etc and if the dog could still do the "trick(s)" or recognise a person, animal, or place..."my" bed, cat, owner, etc (this can be attached to a chemical response in the brain as well)...then it would be ok...I think what they are saying is that the dogs "higher brian functions" are operating...meaning it's not a vegatable and it seems to have no noticable memory loss or loss of motor skills.
Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by 0111+1110 · 2005-06-27 10:06 · Score: 1

Brain damage is measured in dead areas of the brain, not by cognitive tests.

No. You are wrong. 'Dead' areas of the brain? Where do you guys come up with stuff like this? For humans at least there are standardized tests used by neuro-physiologists to estimate cognitive impairment from brain injury. I suffered such impairment about 5 years ago and took the tests. There are huge correlations between brain damage and what is commonly referred to as IQ or intelligence. Memory is affected the most. Followed by things like attention span and organizational ability. My IQ dropped by like 50 points after my bicycle accident. My MRIs and CAT scans were normal. There was no physical, visible, evidence of brain injury, but it was there nonetheless.

--
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by the_2nd_coming · 2005-06-27 10:11 · Score: 1

if it dropped 50 points than in all likelihood you have no clue what you are talking about.

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:12 · Score: 0

no seriously you guys I really used to be smarter by like 50 points and stuff..
Re:Canine Cognitive Tests? by 0111+1110 · 2005-06-27 10:33 · Score: 1

Why don't you just admit that you were talking out of your arse? I know what I am talking about because I have experienced it. Arguing over exactly how many points my IQ dropped isn't going to change that. Why don't you cite some references, smart guy. I had to reply because you are just spreading misinformation due to obvious ignorance. Or maybe you are a young kid who heard it somewhere. If brain injury causes 'dead' areas of the brain that show up in testing, then at least give a few more details about how you know that. As well as to how you know that brain injury doesn't cause any congitive impairment.

Here's a link. MTBI or mild traumatic brain injury is a common result of automobile accidents and bicycle accidents. It results in relatively obvious cognitive impairments as I described.

--
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

Re:Idea: Experiment on mortally wounded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:01 · Score: 0

Maybe experimentation should be done on Anonymous fucking Cowards. Them showing up missing would certainly solve a lot of problems.

Classic or New Zombies??? by jzarling · 2005-06-27 09:02 · Score: 1

I hope these "zombies" are the classic Romero lumbering type, because I have read Max Brooks' Zombie Survival Guide, so I can deal with classic zombies.

But if they are the "New, Improved. Reimagined" fast running Zombie, we're screwed.

--
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.

this reminds me of simpsons by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:02 · Score: 0

"The results are stunning. I think in 10 years we will be able to prevent death in a certain segment of those using this technology," said one US battlefield doctor.

this reminds me of the simpsons:

"Smithers: [To frozen Burns] Oh, Mr. Burns, we'll thaw you out the second they discover the cure for seventeen stab wounds in the back. How're we doing, boys?
Frink: Well, we're up to fifteen!

Cure AIDs? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:03 · Score: 0

As crazy as it sounds, I've always said the way to cure AIDs is to drain the body of blood completely and replace it with new untainted blood.

Of course the problem was how do you keep someone alive with no blood? Maybe they have solved that now?

Re:Cure AIDs? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:32 · Score: 0

Studied the biological processes involved in a viral infection, have you? Your research for your Ph.D. in Biochemistry lead you to that insightful conclusion? "Drain the blood and replace it with fresh blood?" That theory stands up to investigation, does it? I guess your research findings were suppressed by the government spooks.
Re:Cure AIDs? by nocturnus · 2005-06-27 10:01 · Score: 1

Ever think that instead of being an ass you could maybe educate the original poster as to why his idea wouldn't work? Oh, that's right, you're too busy trying to convince yourself you have a big....brain.
Re:Cure AIDs? by pontifier · 2005-06-27 13:13 · Score: 1

watch the DVD of 28 days later. there was an alternate ending that you should watch.

--
-John Fenley

Zombie is such a deragotory term... by Thud457 · 2005-06-27 09:03 · Score: 1

we prefer to be called corpsicsicles instead.

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:assuming? by thunderbee · 2005-06-27 09:04 · Score: 1

What if you never woke from your dream? How would you tell the dream-world from the real-world?

--
In my opinion, Scientology is a cult you should avoid.

doctors could operate on "inoperable" cancers by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:05 · Score: 0

This would be cool because they could for example crack open someone's chest and eradicate the lung cancer in a person's lungs for instance. Or other types of cancer. I would imagine there would be plenty of uses for this technique.

Who the F proofreads this shit?!?!?! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:07 · Score: 0

Nice abuse of English! Damn, /., catch a clew.

Buy something fun. by Eunuch · 2005-06-27 09:09 · Score: 1

Just not a /. subscription!

--
Transcend Humanity. Please.

Deep Space Travel Solution by Demodian · 2005-06-27 09:10 · Score: 1

Maybe this could help address the problems for deep space travel. Send the dead astronauts to space, reanimate close to a hospitable planet for investigation/colonization. And if the equipment fails, then no worries. They are already dead.

This Is Nothing New... by SavoWood · 2005-06-27 09:10 · Score: 3, Funny

Inigo Montoya: He's dead. He can't talk.
Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

--
Plant a tree in a developing country.

I knew it! by EnsilZah · 2005-06-27 09:12 · Score: 1

I knew there was a reason for all those zombie movies lately!
Someone is trying to prepare us for the outbreak to come.

And remember, aim for the head and let your friends know when you are bitten to save everyone alot of trouble farther along the way.

Finally... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:13 · Score: 0

... a cure to that dog barking at 4am.

"Let's Go Have A Cold One..." by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:13 · Score: 0

An old mortician's joke!-))

Space dogs, overpopulation, politics + retirement by vile8 · 2005-06-27 09:15 · Score: 1

So it seems that the obvious applications for this would come in a couple of old discussions. First space exploration. When it takes 100+years to reach a destination it would be nice to arrive somewhat in shape. Second what if I just don't like the current administration? Put me to sleep for a few millenia and wake me up later!

In all honesty though has anyone ever thought of hibernation as a solution to overpopulation? Presumably the reason we are all so busy propogating the species is the sense that we don't just want our races DNA to help the race thrive, we want OUR DNA to do it... leaving a legacy. This is an interesting way to really leave a legacy.... yourself, with no children needed. Freeze ya, bag ya and store ya on the moon. Though the possibility of being revived several generations later and being younger than your great great great.... is interesting too. Also does you life insurance still pay out at 99+1.5? Or better still can you get government benefits while sleeping. Stick 100 bucks in a 100 stocks and go hibernate for 50 years to see how close you are to retiring!

Welcome to 1940... by Azadre · 2005-06-27 09:18 · Score: 0, Redundant

The Soviets did this in the 40s. http://movies02.archive.org/2/movies/Experime1940/

That's disgusting!. by Thud457 · 2005-06-27 09:20 · Score: 1

Zombie dogs? That's worse than those nasty tofu dogs my girlfriend brought home!

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

suspended animation by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:21 · Score: 0

isnt this just suspended animation like we see in all of the movies. next thing we'll all be suspended and locked into a spaceship for 300 years while we float to some distant planet to unload us all. this is a very real merging of the sci-fi world and the real world.

Resident Evil? by spitefulcrow · 2005-06-27 09:21 · Score: 1

Did it really take /. 3 pages of comments to get in the references to Resident Evil? I, for one, can't wait until Milla Jovovich gets to defeat our new zombie dog overlords!

--
Sorry, my karma just ran over your dogma.

No harmful effects by HangingChad · 2005-06-27 09:22 · Score: 1

Tests show they are perfectly normal, with no brain damage.

Right up to the time they leap on you and tear your face off. And that second set of jaws comes out of the first, like Alien.

--
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage

Spammers sic zombie dogs on 'Net by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:22 · Score: 0

Next week's headlines:

Spammers sic army of zombie dogs on 'net.

zombie.woofwoof.net

- Wait by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:24 · Score: 0

So.... if there is no brain damage they still possess their memory?
Why didn't they figure this out a year ago!?!?
I miss my puppy :(

Turns out... by greenguy · 2005-06-27 09:25 · Score: 1

...your friend is only mostly dead. And mostly dead is partly alive.

--
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?

Re:Turns out... by slippyd · 2005-06-27 10:05 · Score: 1

Oh, come on, how could a Princess Bride reference only get a score of 1 and no replies?!?!
Re:Turns out... by Skippy_kangaroo · 2005-06-27 10:42 · Score: 1

Well, as soon as you replied it made your post (partially) redundant. Isn't circular logic fun?

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by rjelks · 2005-06-27 09:26 · Score: 1

"this isn't cryogenic "freezing people", "

It seems like this research could very well lead to freezing people. The biggest hurdle faced by scientists working on "suspended animation" is the tissue damage (and finding research volunteers). Blood cells crystallize when frozen, which causes them to burst - not an optimal result if the subject is to be revived. Scientists have been working on techniques to use cryro-protectants - sort of like antifreeze - that will prevent cells from this damage. I believe the idea is inspired by some species of fish and frogs will become almost entirely frozen during a winter and revive unharmed. Applications for the technology could include extended human space travel and all of the other sci-fi-sounding reasons for freezing people. (I forget the author at the moment, but The First Immortal deals with this subject and is a very entertaining read). If these scientists have developed a technique to prevent cell damage like it sounds, this could be a big breakthrough in the field. I may have to reconsider getting my head frozen now.

--

Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials

Headline on Fark reads: by Esion+Modnar · 2005-06-27 09:27 · Score: 1

"Dead dogs reanimated. Your dog wants brains."

--

They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...

The first thought I had.. by WeenaMercatur · 2005-06-27 09:29 · Score: 1

... When I read the title was "Milk booooooones"

wtf by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:29 · Score: 0

who the fuck uses terms like "boffins"?

Legal Questions by celephaix · 2005-06-27 09:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

Aren't there legal issues to be worked out here? If you induce a person into clinical death, couldn't that be considered a crime under many defintions?

Re:Legal Questions by OneFix · 2005-06-27 11:11 · Score: 1

I figure the "test" would be done on someone who was pronounced dead, or better yet, an organ donor...You donate your body to science...ok...we're just using your whole body...what are you gonna do? Sue em for bringing you back to life? :) Maybe even simply begin testing it in a less litigous country...

More information can be found... by mrighi · 2005-06-27 09:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

at the University of Pittsburgh' Safar Center for Resuscitation Research web site.

They provide a little more information on their suspended animation page.

Love the technology... Stupid reporting... by GReaToaK_2000 · 2005-06-27 09:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

Overly dramatic title AND REALLY overly done image of dog showing fangs.

What I would like to know is if they they took a few dogs...
one dog knows "tricks". ( knows how to shake, rollover, sit, laydown )
one that doesn't.

freeze them, reannimate them...

Then verify that the "smart" one still knows the tricks and the "dumb" one doesn't.

In addition they should test for personality changes. Most dog owners know the ways their dogs "personality"...

My two cents.

Personally, I have NO intentions of being frozen, it gets cold enough up here during winter. :D

Re:Love the technology... Stupid reporting... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:45 · Score: 0

YES. PERSONALITY.
my puppy....

Re:$12 paypal to first reply to this post. by senocular · 2005-06-27 09:38 · Score: 1

Okay, I'll bite.

Like a zombie dog?

Re-re-animating the dead cat in the basement by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:38 · Score: 0

Don't expect it to tango; it has a broken back.

I have my CPR certification card by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:41 · Score: 0

And just the usual CPR on an adult won't do much good on its own if the heart has stopped. Its better than nothing, but not by much.

By contrast, children respond very well to CPR.

Re:I have my CPR certification card by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:46 · Score: 0

Well, it doesn't start the heart again (actually, the heart has not stopped, then the guy would be dead). But it keeps up the bloodflow and adds oxygen to it until someone with a defibrillator comes along. That is, it really helps.

Commuzombies!!! by jpardey · 2005-06-27 09:41 · Score: 1

We thought the cold war was over.
We were wrong.
When the communes get full, hippies walk the earth. And eat people!

Disclamer: I have nothing against hippies or communism (not that a state that calls itself communist is necessarily good...).

--
I have freaks! I did something right...

Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:44 · Score: 0

Dogs only eat shit when you dont feed them.

Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by sanosuke76 · 2005-06-27 10:37 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, puppies will frequently practice coprophaghy as well. In rabbits, it's common due to them waiting for the bacteria in their gut to render digestable what they couldn't assimilate the first time around. Captive rabbits provided with a generous supply of food, will rarely ingest pellets.

That having been said, baby iguanas eat the feces of adult iguanas in order to acquire the symbiotic bacteria which enable them to digest their food.

As uncommon as it is to find coprophagic bacteria in carnivores and omnivores, it's very common among herbivores.

Ok, that's been my essay on animals which eat their own crap. Dogs - yeah, I don't know why they do that. Dogs will frequently ingest CAT crap with giddy abandon. I don't have any idea if that's a nutritional thing or what.

That having been said, I'd rather deal with a crap-eating dog which will take orders, than an aloof cat which just stares at me blankly. I've already got an iguana, which will basically just do whatever it wants to anyway - and it's a lot cooler to look at than a cat.

--
My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by lcsjk · 2005-06-27 11:35 · Score: 1

I think the reason they do it is the same reason they like to roll around on dead frogs and road kill till their too smelly to get within arm's reach. If you can figure that one out, you might have the answer to them eating their own do-do.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:16 · Score: 0

Seriously... both of my dogs (a Chow and a Chihuahua) very very rarely eat their own crap but I've seen them -- especially the Chihuahua -- randomly roll around in other dog's crap after they identify it as not being their own.

does anyone know why?
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by bani · 2005-06-27 12:54 · Score: 1

I'd rather deal with a crap-eating dog which will take orders, than an aloof cat which just stares at me blankly.

Yeah, I'm sure it's even better when said crap-eating dog gives you nice big sloppy kisses. :-P
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:56 · Score: 0

They like the smell?
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by sanosuke76 · 2005-06-27 13:00 · Score: 1

This is why you do your best to discourage dogs from gratuitous licking behaviour in the first place.

That having been said, most dogs I've owned don't eat crap. Which is considerably better than cats, which seem to be continually preoccupied with licking their own butts. :)

--
My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Loadmaster · 2005-06-27 14:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

My dog (beagle) would do this. I just chalked it up to her trying to mask her scent. Same with eating feces.

This site, I don't know how authoratative it is, seems to affirm this assumption. http://www.manuelsweb.com/poop_rolling.htm
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by spazzmo · 2005-06-27 16:09 · Score: 2, Informative

Dogs eat other organisms shit because their astounding guts (acidic as hell with a very fast flow) are able to extract some nutrition from it WITHOUT getting sick . Which is why they don't tend to eat their own shit: Once it has been through a dog once there is nothing more they can get out of it. Notice i'm not completely ruling it out - dogs ARE disgusting - it's just their personality that let's us ignore that.

--
The cheese stands alone...
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by symbolic · 2005-06-27 18:05 · Score: 1

I think I read somewhere that dogs are attracted to cat doodie because of its protein content. In fact, I think it was on a web site I came across purely by happenstance...I think the title was "The Scoop on Poop", or something similar.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 18:55 · Score: 1, Informative

"Captive rabbits provided with a generous supply of food, will rarely ingest pellets."

umm... no. they *need* to eat poop.It's for the B vitamins. they have 2 kind of poop - cecal and fecal. (basically first time through and second time)

Cows have multiple stomachs and shuffle stuff from stomach to chew to stomach. For bunnies, it's the same process, but done externally.

Grass is a pretty low "profit margin" method of survivial - OTOH it has an extremely low risk of being injured by your prey. Unfortunately, with the low calorie density it takes a huge gut to digest. The cow and bunny are effectively increasing the length of their guts by running the food through twice.

http://www.friendsofrabbits.org/health/mystery_of_ rabbit_poop.htm

Human guts are somewhat shorter because fruit and veggies are more nutritious than grass, a cat's is drastically shorter because of the need to excrete meat waste products quickly, and the much higher caloric value of meat vs plant foods.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by Albinoman · 2005-06-27 20:01 · Score: 1

I remember also reading somewhere that rabbits will also eachothers' poop because the nutitional needs vary among rabbit species. I believe iron was one nutrients mentioned. I guess one rabbit's shit is another rabbit's food.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by mrsteele · 2005-06-27 20:13 · Score: 2, Informative

Rabbits do not ingest their pellets, although it may still be considered coprophagy. They pass soft clumps of partially digested material called cecotropes, usually at night, which they ingest directly from the anus. These are easily distinguishable from regular pellets. Captive rabbits ingest these on a regular basis, although it may be less frequent than wild rabbits.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by hypnoticstoat · 2005-06-28 00:00 · Score: 1

its to get rid of the taste of the dog food. That stuff they feed dogs smells and looks disgusting so I'm pretty sure it'd taste like crap in the first place.
Re:Try feeding your damn dog asshole by FingerDemon · 2005-06-28 05:38 · Score: 1

I had always supposed that this helped them mask their scent when hunting prey that might otherwise smell them coming.

I don't know if that is correct, but it least it makes some sense.

--

"Contrarily the lookaside buffer might not be the panacea... "

no sedimentation == no damage by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:45 · Score: 1, Interesting

certainly in human brins, most of the damage when blood flow stops is from the proces of sedimentation, whereby blood cells clump together in the tiny blood vesels, clogging them up and making recovery impossible. CPR keps blood flowing through the brain, thus preventing sedimentation.

Draining blood and replacing it with saline also could prevent sedimentation, but I don't think it would be easy to get right.

Re:no sedimentation == no damage by The_Spud · 2005-06-27 11:04 · Score: 1

The neurons die from lack of oxygen. CPR puts oxygen in the body( 2 breaths ) and circulates it( 15 compressions ). By sedimentation I assume you mean clotting. This is caused by the vessel walls failing to produce anti-coagulants due to the bodies metabolism shutting down.

Draining the blood wouldn't help much as your neurons would still die due to lack of oxygen.

Saline Solution? I think Worcestershire Sauce. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:46 · Score: 0

And if you don't know how to spell something, just look it up in Google!

can I revive my gf's dead dog? by v3xt0r · 2005-06-27 09:46 · Score: 0

and then kill it again?

hey, this could be fun! lol j\k

--
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.

What's that I hear? by btnheazy03 · 2005-06-27 09:46 · Score: 0

The trampling sound of bible-toting zealots, that's what

--
Pictochat Art!!!

At Last! by tetsuji · 2005-06-27 09:46 · Score: 1

I'll be able to spend a year dead for tax reasons!

--
nuke the moon

Maybe... by diesel66 · 2005-06-27 09:47 · Score: 1

He's spending a year dead for tax reasons.

(tip of the hat to DNA)

--

eleven plus two / twelve plus one

Suicide patients? by Piranhaa · 2005-06-27 09:49 · Score: 1

Hmm. Well now that this can replace blood, slitting the wrists is no longer a way out. Now people must move to more drastic measures: Shooting themselves in the head, or the heart :/ What kind of society are we living in???

who cares. by hosecoat · 2005-06-27 09:49 · Score: 0

we already have zombie humans

The dogs were not dead by Wolfier · 2005-06-27 09:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

I bet they're going to redefine "clinically dead" after finding out what is still going on undetected after their "deaths".

In Soviet Russia. . . by ntr0py · 2005-06-27 09:52 · Score: 1

. . . they did this 65 years ago.

they do this everyday by pin_gween · 2005-06-27 09:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not zombie dogs, but the electrical shock bit...

The paddles you see shocking heart attack victims back to life.

They even have Automatic External Defibrillators (AED) in most major airports, many public schools, even malls have them. The AED shocks the heart back into sync and are easy to use -- the instructions are on the box

--
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life

Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum

I don't believe this article... by popo · 2005-06-27 09:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

This sounds very, very questionable. I call BS.

First off: What was the name of the doctor?
You mean to tell me this scientific breakthrough is being reported to the press, and the name of the scientist wasn't reported?

Secondly: Brought back to life with an electric shock?
What is this Young Frankenstein? You have to be kidding me.

Thirdly: Its being reported where?
Can we get some additional sources please? It did happen in the U.S. afterall. ... and the last words are "... said one battlefield doctor."

Huh? You're a journalist reporting on a major scientific breakthrough and THAT'S YOUR ONE QUOTE!? Not even a name!? You've got to be kidding me.

Either this is absolute hogwash, or this journalist has the reporting skills of a nine year old.

Either way... I'll wait for better coverage before I get excited.

--
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )

Human testing in 1 year; two words: by Lost+Penguin · 2005-06-27 09:54 · Score: 1

Guantanamo and "volunteer"

--
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.

South Park by elgatozorbas · 2005-06-27 09:54 · Score: 1

Pfft old news. The same can be done using plain old Worcestershire sauce as embalming fluid.

Oh... My... God... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 09:55 · Score: 0

All those childhood Pet Cemetary nightmares are rushing back...

The article is not loading for me, but by WhiteWolf666 · 2005-06-27 09:57 · Score: 1

I'm guessing these are the same hibernation experiments that Science reported on earlier this year:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/308 /5721/518?rbfvrToken=62e863f05a35e285b63621e07f2b5 bf569fec959
In the print article the researches indicated they had performed similar tests on dogs and other animals. In many cases they replaced the animals blood, and then resupplied them with blood after a period of time.

--
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell

How long can they stay in storage, anyways? by relaxrelax · 2005-06-27 09:59 · Score: 1

I'm seeing immense utility with frozen trained animals.

Say you need trained rats to sniff out mines on the battlefield. You don't have to keep them fed when not in use and retrain more when they die of old age; you just unfreeze them when you need them!

Countless possibilities. Not to mention really long space travel things. But the article fails to mention... ...How long can you make the frozen state last anyways?

--
Microsoft is pure dog-ma. FreeBSD is pure cat-ma.

Re:How long can they stay in storage, anyways? by Creepy+Crawler · 2005-06-27 12:21 · Score: 2, Informative

---How long can you make the frozen state last anyways?

That, sir, is the "Million Dollar Question". Normally, cells take 'hits' from different causes. Those causes can be cancerous cells, allergens, clots, rogue bacteria, viruses, radiation... all sorts. Your body continually heals from this stuff until you gradually am not able to heal any more. Hence aging and sickness the older you get.

In a cryogenic bath, you can assume that celluar damage wont occur as the cancer cells, bad bacteria and the viruses cant do stuff (you know, frozen and all) and you cant get injured as you cant move. My big consideration is that of radiation. We get roughly 70 rads of radiation per year, no matter where we're at on the Earth. Now, when we're up and functioning, our body can handle those 70 rads/year hits with no problem... but how does it heal when we're in cryostasis?

If our cryo-statsis bodies cant heal radiation damage, will we just have a brain-damage time limit (eg: shelf life)? Kinda scary if they cant figure out a way to fully shield us (of if they can..).

I know lead is a nice high density element that absorbs a good quantity of radiation, but would a osmium shielding work better? It is, after all, the denseist(sp?) element on the periodic table. Has there been any experiemnts with radiation and materials that than lower risk? That, to me, would be best for cryo-sciences now.
--
- Mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thurs, Nov 31, @13:37
Re:How long can they stay in storage, anyways? by pontifier · 2005-06-27 13:03 · Score: 1

Dang... never thought of radiation danger... I'm gonna ask alcor about that. Wouldn't wanna wake up in the future just to die again with a bad case of radiation sickness.

--
-John Fenley
Re:How long can they stay in storage, anyways? by frizzbit · 2005-06-27 19:31 · Score: 1

There are other reasons why you might not be able to maintain a body in this state indefinitely.
According to the article the body is at a temperature of 7 degrees Centigrade. Some (many?) microorganisms can still operate at that temperature.
IANAB (I am not a biologist) but I think there is still potential for damage to happen to a body in this state. You might confidently be able to predict what normal body cells will do in this state but there will always be foreign organisms in your body that may cause problems. I think they would be difficult to screen out, because it takes just one.

Atten-hut! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:00 · Score: 0

Volunteers? Volunteers? Bah! We don't need no stinking volunteers!

That's why we have all those great 'volunteers' in the United States military! Remember kids, it's a 'volunteer' force!

Perfect lab rats! And if you don't believe me, do you remember 'Gulf War syndrome'?

I recall hearing stories from gulf-war vets that told me there were 'bio-chemical counter-agents'/medications that were distributed with little papers saying 'The FDA has not yet approved this drug'.

creepy... by stuuf · 2005-06-27 10:01 · Score: 1

This could be a huge breakthrough for all kinds of medical treatment; I hope they can perfect this in the next few years and make it safe and reliably enough to routinely perform on humans. Still, it's a little creepy. Cryogenics and other hibernation techniques have been in science fiction for decades -- everywhere from 2001 to Futurama -- but I had no idea researchers had gotten this close in real life.

--

Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it

boring movie by hosecoat · 2005-06-27 10:02 · Score: 0

i think this would make a boring movie.

script:
[he is dead]
[wait 3 hrs]
[he is alive, doesn't eat anybody's brain and acts otherwise normally]

Re:Soviet Russia by mcheu · 2005-06-27 10:04 · Score: 1

"Profit" doesn't really fit too well in "Soviet Russia"

Am I the only one... by tolkienfan · 2005-06-27 10:06 · Score: 1

...who pictured packs of "dog" bots infiltrating and taking down the spam zombie nets?

Big help for space travel? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:07 · Score: 0

If it works, I guess this would be a big help in space travels, cause it sounds like we will just "freeze" the crew down with this new procedure during travel. Just like in all the movies...

About the green blood... by slippyd · 2005-06-27 10:11 · Score: 2, Funny

Now, if you wanted to keep someone in hibernation for more than a few hours, I'm guessing you'd have to have replacement blood to use when you want to bring them back out. Artificial blood would be the way to go. And of course, the way the artificial blood would have to be manufactured would result in a peculularity in which the artificial blood would have a green tint after the body has oxygenated it.

Re:About the green blood... by Professr3 · 2005-06-27 15:00 · Score: 1, Interesting

Blood cells can be based around copper instead of iron - It works just fine for oxygen transfer. So, green blood is a scientific possibility.
Re:About the green blood... by The+Lynxpro · 2005-06-28 11:34 · Score: 1

"Blood cells can be based around copper instead of iron - It works just fine for oxygen transfer. So, green blood is a scientific possibility."

Sigh....another Mr. Spock reference on Slashdot.

Star Trek is dead! Long live Doctor Who! :)

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Re:About the green blood... by joskay · 2005-06-28 14:32 · Score: 1

Hi
Good point but from the curent species that do have copper based, it might more likely be blue...
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=octopus
Thank you

Elvis by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:11 · Score: 0

Maybe they'll bring Elvis back to life.......
Too bad the impersonator would be out of a job...

SWEET by EvilStein · 2005-06-27 10:11 · Score: 1

Dude, this is like "Flatliners" and "Resident Evil" all rolled into one.

That, and not one but TWO zombie movies coming out this summer, and we're all set.

Mmm... zombies!

awesome! no way! by Narcocide · 2005-06-27 10:12 · Score: 1

I'm totally gonna try this at home now!

W finally going to the 'nam! by ackthpt · 2005-06-27 10:14 · Score: 1

We should all thank GWB for protecting us from the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001. Oh, wait a second, his administration ignored the 40+ warnings during the preceding summer. Way to go, Bush! You deserve an award for gross negligence. Dereliction of Duty. Not just during Vietnam. But now for your own personal Vietnam II. Thank you for the quagmire, Sir Bush. You are a(n upper) class (fascist) act. Please, keep cutting the taxes for the top 1% and do nothing to stop THE HIGHEST OIL PRICES in history. Peak oil. It's not just a breakfast cereal. Sucks to be you if you don't have $250,000 saved in your (non-S&L) bank account. Even if you live in "fly-over" country.

George is finally going to Vietnam! No kidding, as the guest of the leader and all that.

About freaking time, after all that Texas Air National Guard training...

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

I should try this on my wife ... by FrenchSilk · 2005-06-27 10:15 · Score: 1

... when we are making love. Anything that might bring her back to life is worth a try.

Nothing better to do by PMuse · 2005-06-27 10:15 · Score: 1

Well, it's like this: after the U.S. government effectively banned stem cell research, we were bored. So, . . .

--
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)

Scientific American article on this subject by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:17 · Score: 0

Scientific American ran a recent article on this written for the lay person but it goes into the cell chemistry in some details. Basically you STOP metabolism and the tissue is preserved. Damage occures in "low oxigen" cases such as hertfailure but not in "zero oxigen" cases such as replacing blood with saltwater.
Go to Google and enter the search terms "scientific american" "suspended animation". Yes you need to enter the four quote marks too.

Demoltion Man? by Mo+B.+Dick · 2005-06-27 10:17 · Score: 0

This reminds me of the movie Demolition Man!

Working against a dead line... by NetSettler · 2005-06-27 10:18 · Score: 1

I think the first human trials will be

This is going to make a mess out of laws for what you can call a person...

Hamlet: What man dost thou dig it [the grave] for?
Gravedigger: For no man, sir.
Hamlet: What woman, then?
Gravedigger: For none, neither.
Hamlet: Who is to be buried in't?
Gravedigger: One that was a woman, sir, but rest her soul, she's dead.

I wonder if ordinary rules for clinical trials on humans apply to dead people under present law.

And just imagine how the right-to-life movement will deal with dead people needing to be treated as "potential life". As they are so quick to point out with a fetus, technology keeps changing and so you cna't just go by what present-day technology can do, you apparently have to worry about the limit case. I wonder what the limit case is on this end...

--

Kent M Pitman
Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

Re:Working against a dead line... by coopex · 2005-06-27 15:29 · Score: 1

Philip K Dick already covered these sorts of issues in his short story "The post-Persons".

--
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Re:Alvaro Garza isn't at al l like this ... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:21 · Score: 0

Underwater is not ice cold fluid put into your veins.

Timothy by Craig_P92669 · 2005-06-27 10:25 · Score: 0

April Fool's was months ago dude.

--
http://xs4.xs.to/pics/04481/p556222.gif

No stem cells by Matt+Clare · 2005-06-27 10:28 · Score: 1

This is the type of thing scientists do when they can't get their hands on stem cells. Imagine what they'd do if lab rats were banned?

--
.\.\att Clare

Re:No stem cells by Creepy+Crawler · 2005-06-27 12:12 · Score: 1

Good reason TO ban stem cells.

Make 'em think about getting around a "moral ban" and you end up with cool stuff like this.

---Imagine what they'd do if lab rats were banned?

No more homeless problem? muhahahahahahha
--
- Mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thurs, Nov 31, @13:37

In Related News by Kayne_McGladrey · 2005-06-27 10:28 · Score: 1

In related news, Paul W.S. Anderson (Resident Evil) and George Romero (* of the Dead) plan a new reality television show. Like Survivor, contestants who are voted out will act as an increasing number of judges. "It'll take a lot of brains to survive on this show," says Romero of his new show.

It bites! by dacarr · 2005-06-27 10:28 · Score: 1

Wow, talk about a dog bite that you'll never recover from. At least, nothing that current medical science can help you with.

Now we just need an analog to the rabies vaccine.

--
This sig no verb.

Required by Toloran · 2005-06-27 10:30 · Score: 1

I for one welcome our zombie canine overlords.

--
Speaking is NOT communication

i didn't read all tfc by golgafrincham · 2005-06-27 10:31 · Score: 1

but that's a fake. sure.

mod me redundant, i have some glue.

--
beer as in "free beer"

Re: If they mess up by bussdriver · 2005-06-27 10:34 · Score: 1

If they mess up we will have a near brain dead person to have congress fight over.
Maybe this time it will look a little less stupid?

--
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news

tax reasons by towaz · 2005-06-27 10:39 · Score: 1

So Soon I can actually stay dead a year due to tax reasons?

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

Definition of Zombie by logpoacher · 2005-06-27 10:42 · Score: 1

Has anyone pointed out yet that zombies are, by definition, animate, and thus a dog in suspended animation cannot be a zombie?

I assumed that they were referring to the reawakened dogs as the zombies, implying that they were sort of dead during their little sleep.

However, there's still a problem because according to a dictionary, a zombie is:

A supernatural power or spell that according to voodoo belief can enter into and reanimate a corpse.
A corpse revived in this way.

and from the experiment description, there is no voodoo or supernatural agent involved!

Escaped on a technicality!

Re:Definition of Zombie by kfg · 2005-06-27 11:09 · Score: 2, Funny

Anyone who does not understand the difference between mostly dead (you can work with it), dead (even Miracle Max can't do a thing about it) and undead (a zombie is animate, but still dead) should not be writting headlines for medical stories.

It only gets the hopes of us zombie hunters up that we'll be off the dole soon. If you think the employment situation is bad in IT right now, you should try being a fearless zombie (or vampire) hunter (we don't do ghosts. They're just dead. Any idiot with a proton gun and a ghost trap can deal with them. Dealing with the undead is done hand to hand, or hand to paw, or hand to. . .wait, let me come in again)

KFG
Re:Definition of Zombie by logpoacher · 2005-06-27 12:15 · Score: 1

Absolutely!
The thing that got me running for the dictionary was the question of whether a zombie is strictly dead, or whether "resurrected" could be counted. As it turned out, the dictionary just got bogged down in the means, rather than the state, which I found disappointing.

If resurrection is allowed, then it puts a whole new slant on the Easter story! "Eating the brains of the living", hmmm ....
Re:Definition of Zombie by orkysoft · 2005-06-27 16:29 · Score: 1

Holy Zombie Jesus!

--

I suffer from attention surplus disorder.

In other news... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:43 · Score: 0

...the European Union continues to affirm their method of turning electronic circuitry into zombies is centuries ahead of any such developments for the soon-to-be-outdated flesh and blood.

Oh...I need this! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:44 · Score: 0

Can they revive my penis using this method?

No. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 10:52 · Score: 0

Does not raise dead. Hi-ber-na-tes

Good for space travel by internetjunkiegeorge · 2005-06-27 10:52 · Score: 1

Think they could turn this into a type of cryogenics? That would allow a team of doctors on a spaceship to go a very long distance considering they can just freeze one another and then unfreeze and bring back to life. Hey, it's your shift. See you in 50 years.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this... by Chmcginn · 2005-06-27 10:56 · Score: 1

TFA claims that there's no damage to the dogs, but we can't know how their total lifespan is effected yet.

But it seems to me like you're implying that before something gets tested on humans, they're going to dope up mice,dogs, & chimps with it... and then wait the average mice, dog, and chimp lifespan to see if their "total lifespan" is "effected"? For mice, sure, (18 months ain't too long), dogs, maybe (maybe not... 10 years a step is long), and chimps, well... no.

Plus... okay, you started reading TFA, but... where the hell did you pull the egomaniac celebrities bit from? They pretty specifically state that this would be for a few hours, only... and they don't even "freeze" them.

I mean, seriously.

--
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?

Re:Maybe I'm reading too much into this... by percepto · 2005-06-27 11:09 · Score: 1

Plus... okay, you started reading TFA, but... where the hell did you pull the egomaniac celebrities bit from? They pretty specifically state that this would be for a few hours, only... and they don't even "freeze" them.
I mean, seriously.

OK, the frozen celebrity thing isn't in there. But, as a Bostononian, I can't help but think of poor Ted Williams whenever an article like this comes up.

--
The term "outside the box" is squarely within the box at this point.

a big fat NO to zombies .. by MR|DUCK · 2005-06-27 10:56 · Score: 1

www.petitiononline.com/zombie66/

MOD PARENT DOWN by brian0918 · 2005-06-27 10:57 · Score: 1

Given the replies he's gotten, this person is obviously a regular "bullshit-caller".

Experiments in the Revival of Organisms (1940) by Nine99 · 2005-06-27 11:03 · Score: 1

From archive.org: Experiments in the Revival of Organisms 1940 Producer: Techfilm Studio, Moscow Sponsor: Soviet Film Agency This disturbing film records the successful experiments in the resuscitation of life to dead animals (dogs), as conducted by Dr. S.S. Bryukhonenko at the Institute of Experimental Physiology and Therapy, Voronezh, U.S.S.R. Director: D.I. Yashin. Camera: E.V. Kashina. Narrator: Professor Walter B. Cannon. Introduced by Professor J.B.S. Haldane. Descriptors: Animals: Dogs; Medicine: Veterinary: Experiments; Life extension Run time: 19:31 Color/B&W: B&W Silent/Sound: Sd Download: DivX 4.11 http://ftp.archive.org/movies/divx/19635.avi (67.8 MB) MPEG-2 http://ftp.archive.org/movies/mpeg2/19635.mpg (541.2 MB) Streaming: DSL/Cable http://barbra-public.alexa.com:8080/ramgen/net/mov ie1/0/pub/movies/realbb/19635.rm Dialup http://barbra-public.alexa.com:8080/ramgen/net/mov ie1/0/pub/movies/reallb/19635.rm

Is it just me or... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:04 · Score: 0

...April 1st happened early again ?
I blame global warming and that dick Bush for not ratifying the Kyoto Treaty.

I know! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:05 · Score: 0

The dog was on fire!

Doh!

This is related, but not the actual abstract by sserendipity · 2005-06-27 11:08 · Score: 2, Informative

This is not the pack of dogsicles referred to in the australian article.

This abstract discusses using cold saline solution to induce mild hypothermia in the brain after a cardiac arrest, and during a 20 minute period without a pulse in order to preserve brain function. It's has a lot more to do with trauma surgery and a lot less to do with suspended animation, though technically one could argue that the differences are as much quantative as qualative.

Die and find out if the afterlife exists? by Ugodown · 2005-06-27 11:08 · Score: 1

I can see it now, dying and going to hell. Being there for three hours, and just when you punishment is about to start *pop*. You flash back into the mortal world. Heh, suckers.

--
--- to swing on the spiral...

Am I the only one by CiXeL · 2005-06-27 11:19 · Score: 1

Who would kill to see a Princess Bride reunion?

--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel

Re:Am I the only one by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:31 · Score: 0

Am I the only one who would kill to see a Princess Bride reunion?

Well, I guess that's one way to get them all together again...
Re:Am I the only one by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:38 · Score: 0

no one.

shameless karma whoring by Ubernurd · 2005-06-27 11:20 · Score: 1

I suppose we'll have to wait for a real scientific journal to publish this before we find out much more.

and heeeeeere's the journal!

--
Stack overflow: pid 352258, proc httpd, addr 0x11f7ffff0, pc 0x12000195c Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Zombie Dogs by E++99 · 2005-06-27 11:21 · Score: 1

These guys are idiots. Havn't they seen Pet Semetary?

Re:This world is truly in a downard spiral by smash · 2005-06-27 11:27 · Score: 1

OK, so you don't believe in life saving medicine.

Fine, don't expect any medical treatment for severe injuries or disease.

Don't expect CPR.

Because after all... medical treatment is messing with life and death.

smash.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

oh no. we are farked ... by torpor · 2005-06-27 11:35 · Score: 1

we now have zombies, whats next .. space aliens? invading ones?

screw that, i don't want to know. i also don't want to know how this technology gets militarized, and then 'accidentally used on a massive population'.

actually, maybe i do want to know about invading space aliens, but only if they'll let me use their weapons to clean up the zombies first, before we re-populate us humans as the humble servents overlord-space-alien masters ..

who i, for one, welcome.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

In future news by john_is_war · 2005-06-27 11:41 · Score: 1

Umbrella corp has yet to comment on the events in Racoon city.

--
Live life to the fullest. It's not that life is short, but that you are dead for so long.

Someone might have a bit of trouble... by theurge14 · 2005-06-27 11:42 · Score: 1

...digging Andre's body out of the rubble. /stop that rhyming and I mean it!

Re:Someone might have a bit of trouble... by SavoWood · 2005-06-27 11:53 · Score: 1

Anybody want a peanut?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Please make it stop!

--
Plant a tree in a developing country.

Not sure what to think by Blitzenn · 2005-06-27 11:43 · Score: 1

Wow, I am not sure whether to be deep disturbed or fantastically excited. Perhaps I feel both. I feel that we have souls and I am not sure what would happen to that during the time of death. It will be interesting to hear what that first person who comes back tells us of that time. Perhaps that is what disturbs me the most. We could really know what actually comes after death now too. Yes, I am deeply disturbed and fantastically excited, both.

Re:Not sure what to think by JustNiz · 2005-06-27 12:08 · Score: 1

It seems this dispells the myth of the existence of a soul that is not a function of the brain. And therefore, religious constructs such as heaven, hell and any kind of existence after death.
Re:Not sure what to think by Blitzenn · 2005-06-27 12:28 · Score: 1

"It seems this dispells the myth of the existence of a soul that is not a function of the brain. And therefore, religious constructs such as heaven, hell and any kind of existence after death."

Perhaps it is that arguement that I find deeply disturbing. It would certainly cause us to have to readdress the whole religon thing wouldn't it?
Re:Not sure what to think by megrims · 2005-06-27 14:29 · Score: 1

I don't see how, actually.
Religious 'constructs' such as heaven, hell and other ideas of existance after death generally aren't supposed to begin until after the end of the world.
Re:Not sure what to think by edraven · 2005-07-05 10:12 · Score: 1

Not at all. Religion and science address completely unrelated spheres. Religion is about the unknowable. It's child's play to create a religious explanation for this event that's consistent with the idea of a soul.

My greatest personal experience is with Roman Catholicism, so I'll speak to that. Guess what? Dogs don't have souls. There is no conflict to address. That was easy, wasn't it?

A sufficient explanation for those religions that allow for the possibility of animal souls is left as an exercise for the reader. Here's a hint, though: it's not possible to verify in any way or to any degree whatever theory you happen to come up with. This is why religious explanations are impossible to challenge with scientific methods.

I checked it out, kind of by Blitzenn · 2005-06-27 11:49 · Score: 2, Informative

Just do a google search on "Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research" and you will see this is not something out of the blue for the man who founded the center or the center itself. I was a bit surprised myself at what I read. From all of the background, we probably should have guessed that it was the next step.

MOD UP by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:51 · Score: 0

Interesting stuff, thanks!

Wolf 3D by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 11:52 · Score: 0

So THIS is how the Nazis made those zombie dogs in Wolfenstein 3D!

One word... by hiryuu · 2005-06-27 12:00 · Score: 1

What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?

FRANKENDOG!

--
Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.

The Star Wars Joke... by digital-madman · 2005-06-27 12:03 · Score: 1

Okay...I need to do this... "Many Boffin's died to bring us this information!" okay...got that out of my system...

--
A bullet sounds the same in every language. So stick a fucking sock in it...

Thanks alot by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:19 · Score: 0

OK, the kids just had me put green light bulbs in all the fixtures upstairs. They are running around making spooky noises and yelling "Ghost !!" Then I read this. Thanks alot Slashdot --- I'm sure I'll sleep fine.

inflammatory cascade, autolysis & cryonics by Cryofan · 2005-06-27 12:20 · Score: 1

the 10-minute brain damage happens when the patient is REVIVED, NOT when they are ischemic (without oxygen). The reoxygenation of the blood causes a cascade inflammatory reaction that causes the brain damage. Note that this particular brain damage is not structural in nature, but instead is functional. IOW, the memories are still there, but the cell functions no longer work.

There is another type of brain damage that IS structural--autolysis, where the cells eat themselves when they are starved for oxygen. But that takes many hours without oxygen for serious damage to occur.

Now, both the cascade inflammatory reaction AND autolysis processes can be greatly slowed by lowering the body temperature. That is why people can sometimes be revived from drowning in cold lakes after being underwater for an hour or more.

And....AND...this set of ideas I explained above is why cryonics MIGHT work.

--
eat shiat and bark at the moon

Re:inflammatory cascade, autolysis & cryonics by klic · 2005-06-27 13:53 · Score: 1

Indeed, the cryonics folks have been working on this stuff for years. I've seen dogs that have been washed out and chilled and revived, then nursed back to health. The really gruesome part is that after the dogs are healthy again, the law requires that they be euthanized. Apparently this is to prevent "suffering".
The logic behind cooling is the Arrhenius Equation. Typically, chemical reactions slow by a factor of 2 for every 10C drop in temperature. A problem is that this is a crude approximation, and depends on the activation energy of the reaction, so the rate is different for all the different reactions.

Since a cell contains thousands of chemical cascades, some reactions start going more slowly than the reactions that feed them, and intermediate products start stacking up or running out. Different organs do different processes at different rates, so whole body is more difficult than chilling one organ (which they have been doing for years, to move transplant organs). Different organs need different perfusions and cooling rates for optimum survival, and some organs survive cooling better than others. At the other end of the process, you end up with a few organs damaged. Hence, the nursing back to health - it is probably similar to the damage caused by a major infection.

However, the number of organ-targeted chemical adjustments to make is probably small enough that we can probably learn what they all are, step by experimental step, and come up with a process that will preserve a soldier for a couple of hours, which should get them from the field to a hospital. A nasty process, and the soldier will be in bed for weeks or months, but it sure beats a dirt nap.

--
Keith Lofstrom server-sky.com

First order of business by AutopsyReport · 2005-06-27 12:37 · Score: 0

Bring back Alf, please.

--

For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

can the heart survive in other cirumstances? by riiiichanchan · 2005-06-27 12:43 · Score: 1

I dont know, such a small article for such a big breakthrough One question I have is how is it that they "killed" (effectively) these dogs, was it by the very process of draining there blood and filling it with "ice cold saltsolution" or did they have another method, would other methods of death yield the same results? Also what does this say about the durability of the heart. Does this mean that the heart can be restarted as long as everything is perfectly preserved, and you don't touch or disturb anything and preserve the organs with this liquid? Or does this mean that the heart has nothing to do with the liquid per se, and that it can be restarted after 3 hours as long as the rest of the organs are fixed (or preserved). I guess what I am wondering is, what does this say about the heart muscle. Does this mean tha the heart can be revived (with regularity) in not just this circumstance but in others?? or does this strictly have to do with this situation in this experiment.

Re:Idea: Experiment on mortally wounded by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:44 · Score: 0

Oooh. I bet that made you feel better.

I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:45 · Score: 0

This just isn't possible without damage to brain cells, I (med student/intern) think that myself and my fellow med students would have seen proof of this possibility by now.

they already have by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 12:50 · Score: 0

it's called the estate tax.

More Republicans by javamann · 2005-06-27 12:54 · Score: 1

Great, just what we need is another group that is sure to vote republican.

Re:More Republicans by Dobeln · 2005-06-28 06:45 · Score: 1

Nah, when the dead vote, they vote Democrat! :)

Soylent GRRRreen by zippthorne · 2005-06-27 13:00 · Score: 1

Tastes just like people! Your dog won't know the difference!

--
Can you be Even More Awesome?!

Why didn't I have the foresight... by ChaoticCoyote · 2005-06-27 13:03 · Score: 1

...to marry Milla Jovovich?

OUCH!

Ahem. My current significant other informs me that she can take down zombies just fine. I'll take her word for it.

--
All about me

Re:assuming? by mweier · 2005-06-27 13:25 · Score: 1

Sounds a lot like the film Waking Life.

--
digital artist, 3D animator, web designer, and otherwise technological creative type....

I for one... by tundog · 2005-06-27 13:32 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcome our new zombie-dog wielding overlords.

--
All your base are belong to us!

yay! recycle the soldiers from Iraq! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 13:39 · Score: 0

no need to go headhunt highschoolers!

Rock band name? by Easy2RememberNick · 2005-06-27 13:42 · Score: 1

Am I the only one thinking this would be a great rock band name! ...or at least a great nickname.

Also, I don't think I would like to raise my dog from the dead. I wouldn't want a religion started after him.

Immortality and Space Travel by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 13:47 · Score: 0

This would be great for sleeper space ships, that is until we finally discover the FTL drives that every other space race is using, and snickering at us for not having found it yet...

And, combine this technology with the South Korea scientists spanking the USA with all their stem cell advances, it might help with multiple organ transplants - transplants of your own cloned organs, not someone elses...

Mod Up by node159 · 2005-06-27 13:53 · Score: 1

Mod this up, very informative. At last somone who seems to know what they are talking about.

Hey this is slashdot, your kind is not allowed =D

--
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?

Zombie? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 13:58 · Score: 0

Nothing in that story meets the "zombie" definition.

Re:Zombie? by ^_^x · 2005-06-27 14:25 · Score: 1

...except the whole dying and being brought back to life part...
Re:Zombie? by edraven · 2005-07-05 10:00 · Score: 1

It's a somewhat technical point, but zombies of legend are not brought back to life. They're animated corpses. Still actually dead. They rot and stuff.

SCIAM Article by einstein314emc2 · 2005-06-27 14:01 · Score: 0

There was an article in the June 2005 about suspended animation. Link, just intro The method of injecting a saline solution was discussed, and the article even mentions experiments with dogs. Basically, the saline solution removes all oxygen, which puts the cells into hibernation. At an intermediate level of oxygen cells will die because they aren't completely in hibernation, and thus try to use oxygen they can't get. However, above or below a certain point they are viable and will hibernate(low) or metabolize normally(normal).

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by jonored · 2005-06-27 14:03 · Score: 1

...it's more that all cells take damage when frozen - in order to pull the freezer trick, you'd need to get your antifreeze - to keep crystal size down - into every cell in your body, not just the blood.

You'd also need to arrange for the heart and respiratory systems to thaw first, the way that the freezables do. Increased levels in those areas...

I suppose you could consider this something in that vicinity, but... farther away than some of the other options. Having no blood doesn't help with the freezing issues.

mod parent down by juggledean · 2005-06-27 14:05 · Score: 1

It looks real. The blurb says

This disturbing film records the successful experiments in the resuscitation of life to dead animals (dogs), as conducted by Dr. S.S. Bryukhonenko at the Institute of Experimental Physiology and Therapy, Voronezh, U.S.S.R. Director: D.I. Yashin. Camera: E.V. Kashina. Narrator: Professor Walter B. Cannon. Introduced by Professor J.B.S. Haldane.

Cannon and Haldane are super-respectable physiologists. Bryukhonenko S shows up in PubMed.

And yet it didn't catch on and get developed. In those days there wasn't a medical specialty called emergency medicine to run with it. We shall see...

profit! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 14:16 · Score: 0

save some cash
freeze yourself for 100 years compounding
profit!

Dog and Human Relations by Lord_of_the_nerf · 2005-06-27 14:23 · Score: 1

I can see the poor trusting puppy dog panting in anticipation and the scientist with a needle and what looks like a bike pump. Does anyone else think that society is going to end the day dogs discover that humans are made out of meat? =)

Poor dogs by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 14:25 · Score: 0

I sure hope they tested such a risky process on politicians first.

Already being done by The+Breeze · 2005-06-27 14:28 · Score: 1

Barrow's Neurological Institution in Phoenix occasionally uses what they call the "standstill" operation where they chill a person down to 60 degrees and replace some of their blood with some other solution so that they can read deeper areas of the brain - it's an extremely difficult operation, pioneered by Dr Robert Spetzler, and to the best of my knowledge Barrow's is the only place in the world that has had success with the operation - the patients tend to die everywhere else it's been tried. A more complete description can be found in the mid-90's book "The Healing Blase" that talks about many trends in brain surgery.

Less procreation by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 14:40 · Score: 0

Don't kill people or allowe them to die, just give them less incentive to reproduce. The middle class reproduces at much lower rates than the lower.

Not Exactly by davidescott · 2005-06-27 14:51 · Score: 2, Informative

It wasn't that they withheld treatment, but that they provided false treatment.

The Tuskegee men were poor black and southern and like most poor black southerners considered worthless to society. As a result they had not been retrieving treatment, nor were they ever likely to get treatment (at least from their state government). The Doctors involved in the study saw this as an opportunity to study the progress of syphilus without treatment [not that such a study was really needed, but it fit in nicely with the controlled study idea begining to gain favor].

However the men involved were rightly distrustful of the government and the Doctors had to provide incentives for them to come to the hospital to be studied. So they started providing "medical care" but of course there was no budget for real medical care so they provided limited medical care, and of course did not provide the antibiotics that would have cured the syphillus. It was the provision of inadequate medical care disguised as appropriate care which was so clearly unethical.

And yes they are different from the Airmen, who I don't know anything about.

Re:Not Exactly by Synbiosis · 2005-06-28 14:19 · Score: 1

You're wrong.

They did withold information. If you read the Wikipedia Article, you'll immediately notice one statement that contradicts most of waht you stated.

"Individuals enrolled in the Tuskegee Syphilis Study did not give informed consent and were not informed of their diagnosis; instead they were told they had "bad blood" and could receive free treatment."

Also, treatement for Syphilis was very affordable by the time the study began to wind down- it lasted until 1972. Antibiotics were quite widespread and relatively cheap at that point in time.

AED usage by Firethorn · 2005-06-27 14:53 · Score: 1

Not to mention that the AED's actually have a voice synthizer that tells you what to do. Available in multiple languages with some versions.

--
I don't read AC A human right

The technology by ScrewMaster · 2005-06-27 15:06 · Score: 1

... will be tested on humans within the next year."The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

Not on me it won't. I'm all for progress but they can just find someone else to be the official guinea pig, thank you very much.

Still ... 2001: A Space Odyssey just became a bit less science fiction. They need to work on the whole AI thing, though.

--
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.

tested on humans? I don't think so.... by TrdrJoe · 2005-06-27 15:09 · Score: 1

The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

This sounds like a wild claim, especially in the next year if it has only been shown to work once on dogs. Any technique with such a high risk of fatality can only be tested on people who are going to die anyway, and even then only if it might help them (eg testing a new artificial heart). This technique cannot help anybody in a little 10 minute experiment, so who would volunteer?

Old Hat by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 15:37 · Score: 0

Actually, we do that to humans several times a year here in Minnesota. Then they tend to move to Florida.

Clinically dead vs. DEAD dead by wing03 · 2005-06-27 15:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

At the risk of offending the anti-afterlife believers and continuing the threads on heaven, hell, souls and the afterlife in general...

I'd agree with the poster about someone going through this procedure and not having any memory of it since there's no brain activity to store anything.

But let's say there is some sort of energy that isn't measureable by the tools we have now that you could call a "soul" (tm). Maybe it's bound to the body until cellular decay occurs.

Besides, what ever happened with those studies where researchers put notes up on ceilings of operating rooms to see if there were any NDE's that actually found themselves floating up to the ceiling to see what was written on these notes?

Re:Clinically dead vs. DEAD dead by bill_mcgonigle · 2005-06-28 07:31 · Score: 1

But let's say there is some sort of energy that isn't measureable by the tools we have now that you could call a "soul" (tm). Maybe it's bound to the body until cellular decay occurs.

Who says the soul can travel in only one direction? Like when Kenny was killed playing his PSP and he went to Heaven to lead the armies of Heaven against the armies of Hell - when the Doctors 'resuscitated' him into a persistent vegetative state, his soul went back to into his body.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

I don't blame you but... by Khyber · 2005-06-27 16:02 · Score: 1

First off: What was the name of the doctor?

Good Question to ask.

Secondly: Brought back to life with an electric shock? What is this Young Frankenstein? You have to be kidding me.

Ever hear of a defibrillator? I'd guess you could possibly in theory use the same device to electrically boot your brain up with a carefully regulated shock.

Thirdly: Its being reported where?That's the best question yet.

--
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.

Re:I don't blame you but... by juhaz · 2005-06-28 23:19 · Score: 1

Ever hear of a defibrillator? I'd guess you could possibly in theory use the same device to electrically boot your brain up with a carefully regulated shock.

They're not even shocking them to start brains, they're using the defibrillator for exactly same purpose defibrillator usually is - for booting the heart. It won't start beating on it's own after it's been stopped and 30 degrees below it's normal operating temperature for three hours.
Re:I don't blame you but... by Khyber · 2005-06-29 00:22 · Score: 1

But will the brain's electrical activity resume after they get the heart jump-started? That I've never understood. How do you restore the activity of the brain once you've pretty much shut it down?

--
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:I don't blame you but... by juhaz · 2005-06-29 15:54 · Score: 1

Can't say I know, and the real article isn't available without paying either. But couldn't the same be said about every other cell in the body?

I guess they start working when the oxygen and nutrients start flowing, presumably first trough heart/lung machine to replace the saline solution with real blood and when things have warmed enough, they start the heart.

*cough* *splutter* by dburr · 2005-06-27 16:11 · Score: 1

Darn sody pop! How can anybody breathe this stuff?! *BURP* Excuse me. Oh great; now I'm gonna be gassy for a month!!!

--
Yomigaeru Aiyan Geek!!!

Re:*cough* *splutter* by mink · 2005-07-05 07:55 · Score: 1

Nice Earthworm Jim referance, sadly no modpoints today.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

Meat spoilage / time limit? by seven+of+five · 2005-06-27 16:20 · Score: 1

What's the practical time limit for this technique if it's at 7 deg C? A few days? Meat doesn't keep forever in a refrigerator.

Re:Meat spoilage / time limit? by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2005-06-28 04:13 · Score: 1

What's the practical time limit for this technique if it's at 7 deg C? A few days? Meat doesn't keep forever in a refrigerator.

Got me. (They just invented it, after all.) Let's see how it works out. Real data will be forthcoming from the labs - and hospitals - soon enough.

But cooler means longer - and frozen means cooler. There are already techniques to get past the ice-crystal barrier near freezing, and some success with the shrink-and-crack-the-brain barrier when going for liquid nitrogen temperatures.

What makes this a breakthrough is that it shows you can shut down a brain and body and then get them restarted without detectable permanent damage - and gives you one way to do it. That's a BIG hurdle cleared.

It's an enabler for developing practical techniques for going beyond 7C in the search for days and years of suspension.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 17:06 · Score: 0

...do they send spam?

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by rjelks · 2005-06-27 17:21 · Score: 1

...but it sounds like these dogs recovered without damage. Whatever they replaced the blood seems to have protected all the cells. The article wasn't very in depth, but it sounded like the dogs were frozen for hours - if I remember correctly. Doesn't that indicate that all of the cells were protected from crystalization?

--

Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by toomanyhandles · 2005-06-27 17:25 · Score: 1

cryro-protectants - sort of like antifreeze - that will prevent cells from this damage. I believe the idea is inspired by some species of fish and frogs will become almost entirely frozen during a winter and revive unharmed. Applications for the technology could include extended human space travel and all of the other sci-fi-sounding reasons for freezing people. (I fo

North American Wood Frog, for one.

freezes solid each winter.
See: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3209/05.ht ml
for a 4 min video of the process.
the frog uses a sugar as a cryoprotectant, but still freezes solid.
(the sugar is biologically useful but not enough to depress the freezing point enough to keep him liquid, he is rock-hard).
My favorite are the carnivorous caterpillars that eat insects trapped on ice fields- they have low levels of ethylene glycol in their hemolymph.

Rana sylvatica... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 17:47 · Score: 0

...also known as the North American Wood Frog (Rana sylvatica) can be frozen for an entire winter season before thawing and reanimating, and still doesn't come out of hibernation with a taste for brains.

So.. by suttree.com · 2005-06-27 18:02 · Score: 1

no stem cell research is allowed in the USA as it 'jibes' with the religious 'beliefs' of the people on power.

But, zombie dogs are ok? Sheesh...

Oblig... by d474 · 2005-06-27 18:30 · Score: 1

World's.

Worst.

Ice Cream.

Headache.

Ever.

--
Authority questions you. Return the favor.

If you see a zombies' face, by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 19:22 · Score: 0

pump it full of lead.
Put those monsters in their place
and make them truely dead.

Obligatory fark joke: by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 20:33 · Score: 0

Your dog wants brains.

Excellent post by ishmaelflood · 2005-06-27 20:47 · Score: 1

I don't know if it's true (this being the Internet and all), but that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

where next? by tamagen · 2005-06-27 21:22 · Score: 1

I like the editor's comment over at http://freeinternetpress.com/modules.php?name=News &file=article&sid=3901 :

This seems a bit disturbing.

"Sorry Bob, you died in a car accident last week, but you're fine now. Did you have a nice vacation in heaven?"

"I wasn't in heaven"

Seems like old news by mvb_I · 2005-06-27 21:32 · Score: 1

There is a [0]more detailed report on this from 2003. So, what is new?

[0]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi ?c md=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12771628&dopt=Abst ract

Zombie army by thrill12 · 2005-06-27 21:36 · Score: 1

I guess this:
But even this should be enough to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss.

...hints to a possible use for the army. Wouldn't it be easy to simply revive your soldiers in the field using this technique ? The only problem I foresee is when they get home:

"Hi honey, great your back from Iraq"
"Garghhh gargghh garghhh must garghhh have garghhhh blooooooooooood"

--
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd

Re:This world is truly in a downard spiral by ThaReetLad · 2005-06-27 21:54 · Score: 1

What exactly do you believe ABOUT God? What kind of being/entity is he/she/it.

If you believe in God, I assume you're talking about some all omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient entity that created you/me and the universe for some purpose. Presumably if we truly have free will, God gave us that for a reason too, rather than just force us to do what He wants.

The question is, what was that purpose, what's our role here, and what does this God want us to do? Have we been told anything about what He's like, or what His purposes are?

What effect does it have on your life day to day?

--
You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine

Dead dog + T-Virus = No more special effects... by romiir · 2005-06-27 22:59 · Score: 1

"a technique in which subject's veins are drained of blood and filled with an ice-cold salt solution" I think what they have here is the T-Virus from resident evil... They pump em full of it and give the dogs a nice shock.. and walaa! Zombie Doggies, like you see in the picture, all teeth bareing! Eek!

Well at least in the next movie they wont need special effects..

Could be worse... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-27 23:33 · Score: 0

Could have been Abi Titmus.

But how are they going to cure this? by XStylus · 2005-06-28 00:12 · Score: 1

This sounds similar to cryogenics. There's still one problem I don't recall seeing a decent solution to.

How are they going to cure freezer burn? ^_^

Scatologists = poo-poo headed killjoys by Vexar · 2005-06-28 00:38 · Score: 1

Leave it to a scatologist to ruin the potty humor completely. You know, there are precious few amusing verses in the Bible, but the simple fact that you disassembled:

"Like a dog to its vomit, so a fool returns to his folly..."

Tells me that all Scatologists are anal-retentive. Tell me something more: when the prophet Ezekiel refused to cook his food over burning human feces, naked in the public square (as God suggested), and instead cooked it over burning cow feces, was there some biological benefit? Also, which stinks more, burning cow feces or burning human feces?

And before some illiterate Christian mods me down for heresy: Proverbs 26:11 and Ezekiel 4:12

On a more serious note, the Bible talks about people rising from the dead, en masse. That would be rather zombie-like. I mean, take it literally and it has a bit more punch, agreed, but this might be what was meant. Oh well, maybe some well-informed eschatologist will speak up!

Taxing the frozen by Dext · 2005-06-28 01:21 · Score: 1

Hitchikers guide to the galaxy anyone?

They may not be able to tax the dead but im sure they could find a way to tax the "dead for a few years". Say, if you Invest a bunch of money in the markets, freeze yourself for a few years and then come back to collect your money. You would still have an income even though your frozen and therefore still have to pay taxes.

Re:Taxing the frozen by Mycroft_VIII · 2005-07-06 21:04 · Score: 1

Just classify it as an inheritance (well technically someone died and you got the money, even if the someone was you) and just to fair treat everything owned as inheritance.
Be kinda interesting to see the courts handle that if the irs was to declare it such without specific legislation.

Mcyroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by jonored · 2005-06-28 02:03 · Score: 1

7 C is a good solid bit - 7 celsius degrees - above the freezing point of water - nothing crystalized because they didn't freeze them, just slowed them down to the point we couldn't tell if their tissue was alive or dead, and they weren't moving. The dogs were in a state where their bodies showed no activity for hours, but they certainly weren't frozen solid - again, lightly refrigerated for preservation, not deep-frozen.

3 syllables... by GreenSwirl · 2005-06-28 02:39 · Score: 1

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Seda-give??? Seda-give???!!!

Actually, this sounds more like Re-Animator.

Sadly by xant · 2005-06-28 03:19 · Score: 1

The government's short-sighted experiment resulted in a large number of people who couldn't spell syphilis, and the science was set back decades when nobody could look up the research in scientific journals any more.

--
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.

Re:Sadly by evilpenguin · 2005-06-28 04:18 · Score: 1

Heh! Fortunately, I have not been intimately acquainted with syphilis, so I will readily admit that I don't know how to spell the word. Thank God, sir, for people like you!

Re: this isn't 'freezing people' by rjelks · 2005-06-28 04:39 · Score: 1

My bad...I didn't RTFA as good as I should have. I think the title and the scary "zombie dog" picture distracted me. You're absolutaly right about the dogs not really being frozen. It is interesting that they can keep them brain dead for hours and revive them. I suppose there are numerous examples of people dropping below ice and being revived after 30-45 minutes. It does lend credibility to the idea that "freezing" would preserve life for extended periods of time, but there is a big difference between 7 degrees C and freezing. I guess I'll postpone plans for freezing my head for a bit longer. :)

--

Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials

Re:This world is truly in a downard spiral by h0ts4uc3 · 2005-06-28 06:23 · Score: 0

"life saving medicine"

Thats not medicine, thats something out of Mary Shellys Frankenstein.

CPR, Meds, and overall treatment of a non lethal illness or injury was not the discussion here, it was reviving to life what was already dead.
I suppose a difibrulator (sp) would in a sense be the same thing but this method is just a bit too....disturbing. I know its a matter of opinion but there's something just not right about it.

An aloof cat is now staring at you blankly by Medievalist · 2005-06-28 06:35 · Score: 1

I'd rather deal with a crap-eating dog which will take orders, than an aloof cat which just stares at me blankly.

If you want something that takes orders, might I suggest a robot or a human slave. Dogs are too stupid to do your housework, and haven't the dexterity to open your beers.

Re:An aloof cat is now staring at you blankly by sanosuke76 · 2005-06-28 07:31 · Score: 1

Ah, but I don't drink beer. And as for housework, you've clearly never seen what happens when food falls on the kitchen floor in front in front of a dog. :)

I'm pretty un-demanding though. "C'mere", "Stay", "Take care of those crumbs on the floor" and "Chew off that person's face, please" make up most of the orders I really want out of an animal. Beyond that, I'm happy as long as the dog makes a good footwarmer in the winter.

Side note, I DID once have a dog smart enough to tell a few screwdrivers and tools apart, and fetch the appropriate one when verbally ordered to do so. No, there wasn't any Francis the Talking Mule stuff going on; this was tested with my back turned. That having been said, Cocoa was an exceptionally bright dog and this was well past the mid-point of her life. She was half-Shepherd and half-retriever (we were never sure which type of retriever).

--
My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/

The Reason the Dogs Eat Cat Crap by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 08:16 · Score: 0

All dogs are male.
All cats are female.
Dogs get off of taboo breaking.
Female cat poop tastes good to male dogs.
Ummm...
Burma Shave!

So.. by iMJ · 2005-06-28 08:20 · Score: 1

All dogs DONT goto heaven.. If this is true it kind of eliminates the use for a god. I dont want to get all religiony but.. "scientifically" or not you would be killing a person.. and then bringing them back to life right? So.. yeah i think you get my point.

Let me be the first to say... by gg3po · 2005-06-28 09:33 · Score: 1

And, of course, how many worlds could we explore with technology like this?

...KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

--
---

Re:$12 paypal to first reply to this post. by prestonmichaelh · 2005-06-28 10:04 · Score: 1

yes, I am now a zombie...

...with $12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, thanks for the donation.

cairogenics by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-28 10:25 · Score: 0

I saw this on PBS Nova. Its only a matter of time before we challenge a space mission 100,s of lightyears away on a genesis project. God is with us.

I know by xant · 2005-06-28 12:01 · Score: 1

It's a sacrifice I gladly bear.

--
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.

a script by wattersa · 2005-06-28 12:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

Interior, large hospital emergency room

We hear beeping sounds of monitoring devices; voices from the nearby nurse's station. The lighting is yellowish flourescent in the hallway for a sad, depressing atmosphere. It's a public hospital, so no one thought to have an interior designer make happy colors. The interior of the room is bright with white flouresent light.

POV: facing LAUREN, just inside doorway. She's just been crying and is still wearing her street clothes.

POV: LAUREN, looking into room.

ANDY has just been wheeled into the room with a major gun shot wound to the chest. The wound is covered by a washcloth and shows some blood, but not a lot. He's behind a curtain setup so only his lower body is clearly visible.

A NURSE (Asian female, early 30's) is facing away from us and is adjusting a piece of equipment.

A DOCTOR (White female, 40's) is facing away from us and illuminated behind the curtain. She's dictating into a tape recorder between probing ANDY's injuries: "Bleeding from perforation of the left thoracic cavity 8cm from center of sternum." Pause. "Fracture of the fourth thoracic rib." Pause. "Wound track and cavity visible. Left lung perforated approx. 4 cm from inner side." Long pause. "Laceration of the circumflex coronary artery. Fragment not found." Pauses tape. (To NURSE) "Get me the chest x-ray please." Starts tape and continues indistinctly.

Fade to black.

Fade back in. More people are in the room. An X-RAY TECHNICIAN (Black male, 30's) is wheeling out the x-ray machine. It's digital, so the results appear on a CRT monitor in the room. The DOCTOR and SURGEON (white male, 50 and graying) discuss the x-ray and gesture to parts of it. They are ignoring LAUREN, who is still standing in the doorway. Finally, DOCTOR comes over to LAUREN and removes her bloody gloves.

DOCTOR: Are you Mrs. Watters?

LAUREN: Yes.

DOCTOR: I'm going to explain what happened and what your options are.

LAUREN: (Bravely) ok.

Blood begins to drip onto the floor, which LAUREN doesn't notice but we do (center of frame between DOCTOR and LAUREN). NURSE puts absorbent towels onto the small pool that's forming.

DOCTOR: Your husband was shot in his chest area fairly close to his heart. The bleeding is serious and we're trying to stop it. The biggest problem is that the heart was injured and we can't repair it completely without stopping it.

NURSE comes up to both of them and stands there.

LAUREN: What does that mean?

DOCTOR: (ignoring her question) You have three options. The first option is for us to try open heart surgery. That is risky and means we have to stop the heart and use a heart-lung machine. The second option is for us to do what's called a "saline evacuation," which means we essentially put the body on ice for a couple of hours while we try to repair the heart. That's the most risky by far. The last option is for us to end treatment now.

LAUREN: ...which one do you recommend?

DOCTOR: I'm afraid I can't tell you that.

LAUREN: (Confused) Why not? I have no idea which one I should do.

DOCTOR: Liability reasons. (To NURSE) Come get me when she chooses.

DOCTOR leaves the room, giving the impression of indifference to ANDY's condition and LAUREN's confusion.

NURSE: Ok Mrs. Watters, you need to decide what to do now.

LAUREN: (Confused) Well what did she mean by "put him on ice?"

NURSE: It's where we take out all his blood and replace it with icewater.

LAUREN: (Dumbfounded). Doesn't that mean he would die?

NURSE: Not exactly. It's a technique they did a few years ago to save wounded army people. The heart stops but everything stays preserved and then you can restart the heart after surgery.

LAUREN: Surgery?

NURSE: To repair whatever damage there is. Your husband has a cut in his heart and they can't do anything about it as long as the heart's beating

Re:a script by Tzarius · 2005-06-29 21:45 · Score: 1

Damn. That's pretty well written, do you write scripts often?
Re:a script by wattersa · 2005-06-30 08:32 · Score: 1

> Damn. That's pretty well written, do you write scripts often?

Thanks, it's my first. I watch a lot of movies though :)
Re:a script by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2005-06-30 09:52 · Score: 1

Very well done.

(My eyes leaked a bit of saline solution by the end.)

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Re:a script by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-04 06:59 · Score: 0

...and then, as the credits scroll over the halcyon scene, ANDY turns and attempts to eat LAUREN's brain....

Weight loss by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-29 07:58 · Score: 0

Think about this...everyone knows how hard it is to lose weight. If someone were to be kept in this state for a prolonged period of time, and only fed essential nutrients to survive, there would not be any temptation. The pounds would drop off! Just a side thought...medical reasons far out-weigh anything else. Well, what about someone who is fatally overweight?..food for thought.

really? by fbartho · 2005-06-30 02:31 · Score: 1

Could you release your sperm or a kid under GPL as a derivative work?

--
Gravity Sucks

Busting the Bubble by Umbrella+Corp.+Emplo · 2005-07-02 07:22 · Score: 1

Sorry to ruin your Resident Evil related fun, but the so called "zombies" of Resident Evil are not. Zombies are renaimated dead. The Resident Evil Zombies (REZ from now on) have be infected with the T Virus. The T Virus is a parasite. It uses creatures as a host feeding off of them from the inside out. The parasite may mutate the host. The parasite may also bust out of the host at a time. The REZ are given zombie like characteristics because of the parasites effects on the host. Parasites don't know how to work a human! So of course they walk funny. The REZ feed off of humans to feed the parasite inside. The mutations can be explained by putting it simply, the parasites obviously controll the brain. So they must controll the involentary functions of the the brain. They might not be so involentary now though. So the parasite just released hormones or something of the sort to alter the host to better suit it's needs. So to conclude, this article is interesting, provacative (I cannot wait to show my friend who is deeply Catholic), and a tiny bit disturbing. They have made honest to God zombies. No T Virus involved, real zombies. REZ, no. Zombie, yes. Umbrella, no. Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research, yes.

Dead Puppies Aren't Much Fun by Anarcho-Goth · 2005-07-08 14:29 · Score: 1

Chorus:
Dead puppies aren't much fun
When you call them they don't come
Dead puppies aren't much fun

My puppy died last fall
That's him lying in the hall
Dead puppies aren't much fun

You can't make them beg for food
You can try - it's no good
Dead puppies aren't much fun
They won't roll over, they won't play ball
They'll play dead, that's all
Dead puppies aren't much fun

When you pick them up they sag
When you walk them it's a drag
Dead puppies aren't much fun
Mummy isn't feeling well
I think she doesn't like the smell
Dead puppies aren't much fun
Not much fun

--
I hate Liberals and Conservatives.
If you are a Liberal or a Conservative, then HAVE A NICE DAY!
Courage.

You think mass murder is bad by Anarcho-Goth · 2005-07-08 16:09 · Score: 1

What if they refused to let certain people die.

Kept them around as perpetual slaves forever.

There is such a thing as a fate worse than death.

--
I hate Liberals and Conservatives.
If you are a Liberal or a Conservative, then HAVE A NICE DAY!
Courage.

Slashdot Mirror

U.S. Scientists Create Zombie Dogs

1,010 comments