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Terror Plot, NASA, DHS Patch Alert
It was a tough decision to part with my laptop, PDA and mobile but I decided to take my chances. It only really then dawned on me the extent to which I depend on these items when I was waiting for hours to clear security ... While I could have found a public pay phone, all my phone numbers are stored in my mobile & PDA and I actually remember very few of them. I could speak to people, after somehow getting their numbers, but they could not call me back. All the usual channels that are normally available to me to get information about a delay were unavailable to me - no web access or even SMS messages to friends with access. You just have to stand in a queue like a sheep.
[...]
As has been reported, items allowed were limited to wallets/travel documents and baby/health-specific products. However, many of us brought books and papers with us also. Interestingly, Duty Free shops were open airside - although I didn't see if any electronics shops were. The focus this morning was really on what can be brought from landside to airside and they didn't seem to have thought about what you buy airside so much (although I would speculate that electronic items bought airside do not pose such a threat in that terrorists would use pre-modified devices to detonate explosives). The search at security was a remove shoes, belts etc. job - rather like being in the US :)
"First, congratulations to the Security Services for foiling this plot," writes reader ettlz, before raising a few relevant questions:
Did they need to detain someone for 90 days without trial to prevent this disaster? Would ID cards have helped?
And how long before I can travel with my notebook onto an aeroplane again, as we all know a cargo hold is no place for a lithium ion battery?
Null537 asks
Is anyone else more angry about the hassle this causes, than anything else? Terrorists spread terror, so they've hit their mark. By being foiled the plot does an amazing amount of damage on its own, spreading FUD.
I don't feel any safer by having my liquids/toenail clippers/pocket vibe/ipod/laptop taken away from me, when there are plenty of other ways to kill/be killed that airlines have no control over. I am more angry at terrorists for making American privacy close(er) to extinction than anything else. With a "war" on "terror" there are going to be casualties, my water consumption/music listening/laptop using/game playing/phone usage habits shouldn't be at the top of the list.
Why does the scapegoat have to be the common citizen?
Reader v1 left one of hundreds of comments on the missing original recordings of the first moon walk, which NASA would like to recover and safely archive before their inevitable deterioration past the point of rescue.
It would not surprise me if these tapes have been in some very rich person's "personal museum" for the last several years, the result of a quiet and large payoff to someone that had access to the archives. Things like this don't just "disappear," they "grow legs."
Ninwa questions the significance of the claim made in the linked article that "The only known equipment on which the original analogue tapes can be decoded is at a Goddard centre set to close in October, raising fears that even if they are found before they deteriorate, copying them may be impossible.":
Is the article honestly trying to suggest that NASA couldn't reverse engineer a format and design a player for it if the original player was lost? I personally find that a little hard to believe. It just sounds like a convenience excuse to create a "give-up searching" date. In my opinion these tapes are very important to our country's history. It's almost shameful to me to think they could have lost them so easily.
According to reader Detritus, "The format isn't a big mystery, it's IRIG 106 if anyone cares" -- but that's not the problem, he says:
The problem is that as part of the continuing budget crunch at NASA, made worse by the need to scrounge money from the existing budget for new tasks like a Shuttle replacement and going to Mars, many activities and facilities are being cut or eliminated. The lab that can handle these old tapes, the Data Evaluation Lab at Goddard, has lost its funding. That means that it will be closed at the end of this fiscal year. The equipment goes into storage or is surplused. The people have to find other jobs or be laid off or retire.
Building a recorder from scratch would be insanely expensive. These recorders cost anywhere from $50-100K when they were new and being manufactured in quantity.
It's easy to say that "they" should keep and maintain the hardware, catalog and store the tapes in climate controlled warehouses, and do all the other things needed to preserve the data for future generations. That doesn't pay the bills. Just storing a tape can cost a dollar or more a year. That doesn't sound too bad until you realize that a single spacecraft can easily generate tens of thousands of tapes. Another problem is that at $100-200 for a new reel of tape, there has always been a large incentive to recycle and reuse tapes for current missions.
Reader Aufero has no trouble believing that if NASA did have to reverse engineer the format, it would run into more than a bit of bureaucratic barbed wire:
If NASA did it, it would require five years, fifteen administrators, and fifty million dollars. The quarterly funding reviews alone (much less the reviews of the reviews) would take up more time than the project, and the funding would be proxmired halfway through to pay for a bridge to an island owned by a friend of some congressman. If they ever find the tapes they should hand them over to the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum, which would probably have them transferred to more durable media in six months at a cost of $30,000.
The problem of preservation sure isn't one confined to NASA, though: reader drDugan writes with an insightful comment on long-term storage of historically important but voluminous data:
I was recently at a meeting in Bethesda at the NIH and heard Don Lindberg, the director of the national library of medicine talk about long term information storage.
After going through all the normal stuff about media degrading and backups, etc -- he made a really interesting point: The only way to really ensure REALLY LONG storage - like tens of thousands of years is to keep having people accessing information. The point he made is that all the storage technology will continue to evolve, and it's only the information we stop accessing that will fall into danger of getting lost.
I thought it was a good point.
Why on earth do we not have access to the original data from the Moon landings? If we did, lots of people would have a copy around. Silly secretive state.
On the announcement that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had issued a strongly worded recommendation that Windows users update their computers with the latest security patches from Microsoft, tholomyes writes that the suggestion is a good one:
This update is as important as it gets. There are vulnerabilities in every major MS program which allow remote code execution, which means that as soon as the exploit is discovered, it can take advantage of holes all over your system.
Affected programs and services:
- MS Server Services (TCP 139 and 445)
- DNS servers
- Internet Explorer
- Outlook Express
- Microsoft Management Console
- HTML Help
- Visual Basic
- Microsoft Office
- Windows kernel
I'm not too surprised that they're trying to push awareness of this patch. It was the lack of patching several weeks beforehand that allowed Code Red to do as much damage as it did.
Many comments suggested that the Department of Homeland Security's motives for issuing its urgent suggestion to patch systems were less than admirable, if not not downright conspiratorial; in response to by ExE122's suggestion that "monitoring 10 million computers to find out what porn sites people like to visit isn't [a government priority]," Shaper_pmp offered a level-headed reason not to discount such suspicions:
How about monitoring 10 million phone calls?
And with a handy backdoor installed monitoring computers would be even easier to automate.
I'm not saying they have, merely that your pooh-poohing of the whole idea is a bit baseless when they've already been caught doing essentially the same thing in a different medium.
[...] The only way this makes sense to me is if you're saying conspiracy theories shouldn't attract tinfoil hat accusations any more... because everyone knows they're watching you, lying to you and breaking the law all the damn time?
Reader twofidyKidd outlines the tension that makes it hard to decide between tempting conspiracies and comforting trust:
The real problem is that our cynicism makes viewing realistic possibilities hard to imagine, and our tools [of] logical deduction sort of seem to fail. Occam's razor can't be used in a situation like this because time has proved over and again that the interests of people at the government level aren't always in the interest of people at the constituency level. This is one of those times that we (the Slashdot conflux) would like to imagine that someone (like Lawrence Lessig or Brad Templeton) has finally said something to an official that he finally understood and as a result has taken this action, but since we often have a hard time getting our own management to listen to the good ideas we put forth, we're hesitant to believe such a thing has happened. In fact, given the recent history of our government, we're much more inclined to consider a sinister purpose. The DHS press release has many of the "hidden agenda" trappings, like specifically indicating which patch to apply, as well as the call of immediacy. ...
Just to put things in perspective; right now, Britons are unloading all liquids and gels into trash cans prior to boarding U.S.-bound planes, while we're wondering if the U.S. government is acting in our best interest by adamantly suggesting we patch our Windows computers.
Many thanks to the readers (especially those quoted above) whose comments went into each of these conversations.
Waffles rock.
So, from the title, I gather ...
NASA was involved in a terror plot but the Department of Homeland security patched it up to look like Al Qaeda did it.
I knew, I knew it along. The terrorists are in cahoots with Bowser, the Koopa Caliph! Think about all the abuse the lizard goes through every time bored airplane passengers bust out their gameboys and play a little Mario. With gameboys now being forced to sit in stowed luggage, Koopa will be free to terrorize the mushroom kingdom.
Remember, if Koopa can kidnap the princess with impunity, the terrorists have already won!
Monstar L
Is the backslash a new feature or has there just not been enough news recently?
I guess everyone needs the chance to chime in a second time.
Still, you gotta figure that in a position like that, a potential bomber would have to be really sure that the flight would leave on time.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
This is a major change in how we travel, but we all will get used to it with time. I would rather have to have to buy new toothpaste because the airline won't get my bags to me for another day than risk having a loved one killed crossing the pond.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
Backslash hits again, just when we thought it was safe to read Slashdot...
George Bush and the US government violated the terrorist's privacy by listening in on their communications. Time magazine says so.
Where's the ACLU on this?
Null357 asked "With a "war" on "terror" there are going to be casualties, my water consumption/music listening/laptop using/game playing/phone usage habits shouldn't be at the top of the list."
Sorry, but your not at the top of the list. Your a casualty of the other side's attempt to make you a real casualty.
What would you have the government do? The media has already handcuffed them with the help of paticular interest groups from doing what is truly effective, profiling. So whats left? Simple, inconvienence EVERYONE. After all its "only fair". Hence my mother gets harrased trying to board flights with her dog. One day some of ya'll are going to grow up and realize that "the man" isn't out to get you. He is out to get the bad guy and the real problem is that the most effective ways are denied to him because of political correctness.
The truth is that there is a group of people out there who only want to kill. You are no more an individual target of their aspirations as you are no more the direct target of restrictions of what you are allowed to take on a plane with you. These people don't care. The fact that they are willing to die to kill others means that we going to suffer some extraordinary restrictions just to make sure they don't get the chance. You want to blame someone, blame them. I know, its far easier to blame our government and Bush (in fact its popular among some segments) but the truth is that they didn't create this enemy. Its been around a long time. Time and technology have given them a means to hit people other than in their home areas.
This will continue until this group is either rendered harmless or their attempts so futile they go back to doing what they did before.
honestly, what would you expect of your government with regards to this situation? There is no reasonable defense that will work against an unreasonable enemy. The sooner that is acknowleged the sooner many will realize just what a major problem it truly is.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Pretty much anything can be made into an explosive strong enough to bring down an airplane — a rather easy target, once you are inside it.
I suspect, we'll be flying naked without any "carry-on" luggage whatsoever — cloth-curtains separating the male and female sections of the planes...
It will be bizarre, but we'll get used to it as we did to having to present ID, having to part with scissors and box cutters, etc.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Why does the scapegoat have to be the
When the terrorists first attacked, we were told to keep living our lives and not let the attacks change our lives. The attacks didn't - our Government has.
As far as I'm concerned, the terrorists have occomplished one of their goals: we are all living in fear. The terrorists just threaten us and we end up having to have more of our civil liberties taken away.
Congratualations, Bin Laden! You are a fucking genius! You've won. The US is now a cowering giant.
Watch out world, the trouble with cowering giants, they can turn into the worst bullies! I heard a woman on talk radio this morning who thinks that terrorists should be put into old military bases - in effect, she was suggesting we creat concentration camps for Muslims.
There's another Holocost coming! But this time its:
Multi state
Against the Muslims
and no one will stop it!
Au Contraire! When you step off a plane at your destination, be sure to pick up your free-refill selection of lighters, pens, pencils, toothpaste, keychains, etc. Every airport will now have giant barrels of them.
"The terrorists are in cahoots with Bowser, the Koopa Caliph!"
This must explain Bowser's constant anger and bad attitude. He's a lizard, and in Islam, lizards are unclean creatures. There goes Bowser's self-esteem. On the plus side, the disdain for reptiles has so far prevented Islamic militants from employing kaiju in their arsenal of terror.
Where were you when the voynix came?
"I suspect, we'll be flying naked"
I'm OK with that as long as they let me know any time Halle Barry shows up for security and boarding.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Is it just me or is Timothy trying to test how many pictures a /. post can hold? 7, that's got to be some sort of record, right?
This was an attack on the UK - we're not the 51st state yet
I didn't comment yesterday on this, and thought about it last night.
Every time there's an environmental regulation (clean air, clean water) or some social program which impacts business, there's an instant outcry from the right side of the aisle that there needs to be an economic impact study to determine if these new regulations are really financially viable. So, where is the cry now? We're looking at billions upon billions of lost productivity, likely slowing of the economy, more people losing jobs and healthcare (and other) benefits beacuse of the increased "downtime" due to these draconian flight regulations.
There were what, 10 aircraft in all, tops? I want to see the cost of the aircraft and the insurance value of the couple thousand people balanced against the lost productivity. Yes, call me cynical.
Oh, and I'd just like to point out that they caught these folks without the ban in place, and only catching the extra one or two planes that might slip by just makes my economic argument that much more salient.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
If they had kept quiet about the missing tapes longer, they could have gone ahead and watched the auction, and see where the equipment got sold to, then followed that around. Chances might have been good they could have nailed the perps then, but now, much less of a chance.
Examples:
The list goes on and on. Kinda funny actually.
it ain't much good if you're dead. On the other hand, being alive ain't much good if you ain't free. So clearly a balance is needed.
Can see them making a nice bit of money carging us out the ass for in flight entertainment now that we can't bring on laptops, mp3 players, handheld games, etc.....
That airport delays everything whenever a cloud passes over the sun.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Terrorism is the new Communism(tm)
Since FUD is in the interest of Bush, Blair, Israel and the usual "bad guys."
And only an amateur intelligence analyst would not look long and hard at the known objective evidence and the credibility of the sources coupled with a list of benefactors -including backlash and provocateurs. And since almost all papers and stories I've seen seem to be victim to the same terror spin doctors (or -shudder- misinformation specialists.) All the above begs for the following questions:
Where is the evidence?
Do you trust the sources?
Why would the bad guys NOT do a dramatic diversionary action, or even feign one? While really going for something else?
Why does nobody with media clout ask the tough questions?
(Usually anything controversial and with political overtones about the US or Israel is moderated down on Slashdot. Maybe this will be the exception?)
Cheers!
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
we're not the 51st state yet
Are you sure? Better ask Blair to ask his boss in Washington about that...
Can you say Reichstag fire?
I pretend to know more than I really do by mooching off google and wikipedia.
Heathrow serves 67.7 million passengers per year. Let's assume that yesterday they were delayed by 2 hours -- that's 42 years of life taken away, in one day, at one airport, by our government.
This is the death of the airlines...and of my air travel...
I don't know if anyone else is concerned, but the government simply cannot protect us from every little threat...
The last time "liquid" explosives were used in a plane, ONE PERSON DIED...and there is simply no way that terrorists could bring on enough liquid explosive to kill everyone...or even bring down the plane killing everyone.
However, the new delays will cost the airlines some customers...they are already faultering...it will give the government the excuse it needs to take control of air travel and become the sole provider of air travel...hold on to your butts...
Why we accept this, why we don't do something about it is beyond me...
Fearmongering is the best way to maintain control...you will see, this is one step in a long line of changes (for the worse)...
I won't be traveling by air any more.
I will train, bus, car, or charter my next travel.
--E--
Can someone explain to me how a plot to bomb a plane traveling between the U.K. and Canada be a threat made against the U.S.? Has there been a war to take over Canada I missed?
Terror is your election enemy. Say goodbye to '06 and '08.
You know when election season is finally upon us, because they start changing the DHS color and issuing alerts.
I'm going on a trip to the UK soon and I'm not going to be able to take any carry-on luggage on the plane now! Six hours of thumbing through Skymall. For the past few years I've usually tried to avoid scheduling flights before elections, but a wedding forced my hand this time. Still, I figured, it's only primary season- the general campaigning isn't until after my return flight. Now I'm facing a long flight from the UK without my usual accoutrements!
Screw you, Lieberman! How can an incumbent lose a primary!
It's not as if terrorism is the big deal we make it out to be anyway. More Americans died in 2001 from asthma.
You've got it backwards - the cars are dangerous to pedestrians, themselves, and other cars. You need to stop everyone from DRIVING to make it safer.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
There are a lot more people, far more densely packed, in a typical airport secrity check area.
Why not just blow up one of those? The building and the equipment there is probably more valuable
than an aircraft, and a terrorist would not even have to do all that careful planning. You might not
be able to get through the checkpoint with so much as a plastic fork or a bottle of hair conditioner,
but you can certainly walk right up *to* the crowded checkpoint with anything you can carry.
Frankly I'm surprised it hasn't happened.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Is this what it has come to: http://laptopmag.com/Features/Tight-Airport-Securi ty.htm
I'm not trying to be racist here. You may feel my comments are but its all completely true.
As a white male from the UK who is about to fly in 2 weeks why should I have to be subjected to these stupuid checks as we all know who the real people who do this are.
Its not white european or american looking (as is racial looks) people its middle-eastern people.
- How many terrorist attacks have there been where a white / christian person was involed? 0 (Zero)
- Same question but middle-eastern people? 100%.
Stop wasting everyones time and baggage allowance, check the target market and let me keep my extra weight.
Sorry if your middle-eastern looking and don't want to be subjected to more secuirty then everyone else but its better then EVERYONE being subjected to these checkpoints
Terrorist only means two things:
1- Middle East
2- Some middle east relgion (muslim, islam)
Several terrorist plots were foiled under Clinton's watch (such as the attempted bombing of the Holland Tunnel) but of course he didn't dislocate his shoulder trying to pat himself on the back or hold any press conferences or anything as this administration no doubt would.
Yes, cheer as our country is scared into totalitarianism. That's just great. You're the type of idiot that would have followed the sheep into fascism in Nazi Germany after the staged bombing of the Reichstag. Grow a brain.
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
Here, the cure is the same as the malady it is supposed to be curing. Yeah, yeah, I know, sometimes you have to do things you don't like, but that's really not the issue. The issue is not whether X, Y or Z is necessary, the issue is whether X, Y or Z is substantially different from what they are remedies for.
If you wage a war to prevent a war, you still have a war. The war you attempted to prevent may now not take place, but since it has been substituted for something that is essentially identical, that isn't much of an achievement.
The biggest problem is when you don't, in fact, prevent whatever it is - or even causes it when it would probably never have occured on its own. Then everyone gets to suffer twice, quite needlessly. See World Wars I and II for details.
The current instability in Russia, and quite possibly the two Chechen wars as well, are likely a byproduct of Western countries depriving Gorbechev of the aid he needed to stabilize things after Glastnost. Ronald Reagan and George Bush I denied that aid on political grounds. True, we'll never know what would have happened if a concerted effort had been made at that time to bring Russia to a healthier economic condition. Things might have ended up worse. However, by waging a political war to prevent that "might be", conditions deteriorated to the point where actual wars were fought and actual people died.
If we look at the current instabilities, it is in populations that have been neglected, where poverty is high, life expectency is low, purpose and meaning are seldom to be found. It would seem obvious to me that smashing property and killing wildly is not going to improve things in such a climate, but this has been the typical response. As responses go, it is flat-out guaranteed to be counter-productive.
There's an interesting article in The Guardian (sorry, Teh Grauniad) newspaper where an anti-terror expert claims that 95% of terrorists are acting on secular or political grievances. (Notice the word "grievance". It's important.) The implication of the Palestinian situation, the Russian situation and the Middle East situation is obvious - if we created a tolerable society where we can, and avoided creating an intolerable one otherwise, 95% of the problem would go away on its own, leaving a paltry 5% for the super-paranoid police and intelligence organizations to fret over.
(I'm not sure I would trust them with much more than 1/20th of their current workload, anyway.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
What about their plan to produce deadly flammable methane gas on the plane?
And if they're not going to allow us to carry liquids on the plane, they really should make it up to us by letting us bring dope.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
In some way, this can be nothing than the protectionism of Microsoft. Rather than addressing why Microsoft has been allowed to be a monopoly and hold so much influence while giving so little back to the world vs. what they have taken from it (the funds you see Gates giving away are technically our money). The DHS should be pushing Microsoft to spend some of that monopoly gained profit to spend that on fixing the issues once and for all.
In the end, Microsoft is being supported by them. What the DHS will be doing next is telling everyone that they need to be upgrading to Windows Vista because it is more secure. This is what this alert by the DHS is all about. If they can tell us to do those upgrades/patches then there is no reason either they or Microsoft couldn't just say that you need Vista to help foil terror plots.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Banning common stuff that can be used as weapons is not a solution, it's a hotfix.
So, what will happen when terrorists develop explosive clothing? Will they make all of us fly naked?
Do more profiling, background searches and stop banning these things. Get the terrorists, nor their weapons.
Nonsense - you could just as much say that about the Pentagon. People usually want to kill strangers because they're really angry, or because they're at war and their leaders have whipped them into a killing frenzy ("Shock and Awe, Yee-hah!" isn't much different from "Jihad against the Great Satan!").
And it's not just religious fanatics who are willing to get killed in the process of killing their enemies.
The Bush Administration policies of attacking Iraq for no good reason, supporting Israel's apartheid in Gaza and the West Bank, and generally making arrogant inflammatory speeches, have been very effective in pissing off lots of people who don't have standing armies to join, and the Pentagon's overwhelming military effectiveness has demonstrated that conventional armies don't stand a chance against us in a conventional war. They've also demonstrated that they didn't do any decent planning for conquering a country once they've stomped the army, and that they're not very good at it, and that's inviting lots of meddlers to come to Iraq and fight the Great Satan, even though pre-war Iraq was the kind of secular corrupt military that the purity-minded fanatics hated almost as much as they hated the US and Israel.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Not looking like a Muslim is better for a terrorist.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
not even a word though it appears to be a name
TANSTAAFL GIGO Acronyms to live by!
The citizenry applying Occam's Razor is what the government calls Plausable Deniability.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Do you like dead children? Most liberals seem to.
As far as I'm concerned, the terrorists have occomplished one of their goals: we are all living in fear.
Speak for yourself, please; I haven't lived a single day in fear of terrorism, because anyone who is sane and rational realizes the chances of being affected by a terrorist attack are extremely remote. I took the train to Baltimore a few months ago for a wedding. I took the train not because of the 'ter-rsts'; I did it because of how invasive and annoying it is to travel by airplane these days. Let me tell you, travelling by train is about the easiest, least-invasive, most relaxing way to travel right now.
The terrorists just threaten us and we end up having to have more of our civil liberties taken away.
You speak as if some genie in a bottle waved a wand and "took away" our civil liberties. Bzzt, no. They were "taken away" by ELECTED OFFICIALS, and in most cases, "we" the public have had multiple oppertunities to vote them out of office. The US public no longer understands what it means to be "free" and has willfully kept in office those who cashed in freedom for an illusion of safety. It will eventually correct itself, but sadly, the public is unlikely to rebuke enough. Case and point, you can't really travel anywhere without a driver's license or some form of ID; train/plane/bus tickets all require 'em, practically...for "security reasons." Just 20 years ago, that was unthinkable- almost "communist" or "gestapo."
The fix is simple: write your congresscritter and tell them that you, as a US citizen and voter, believe the price of "liberty" is the risk someone will use that liberty against you, and you're willing to take that risk. Tell them that you'd rather be "at risk" and free, than living in a police state.
If they don't listen, vote for someone else, provided they're not a raving lunatic (ie an oppertunist). If you can't find a suitable candidate, RUN FOR OFFICE YOURSELF (apologies to Al Gore and An Inconvenient Truth. Hint: stick around for the credits.)
Please help metamoderate.
Cruelty -- A Luxury
In normal doses, fear, indespensable to action and thought, stimulates our senses and our mind; without it, no action at all. But when it is excessive, when it invades and overwhelms us, fear is transformed into a harmful principle, into cruelty. A man who trembles dreams of making others tremble, a man who lives in terror ends his days in ferocity. Hence the case of the roman emperors. Anticipating their own murders, they consoled themselves by massacres... The discovery of a first conspiracy awakened and released in them the monster. And it was into cruelty that they withdrew in order to forget fear.
But we, ordinary mortals who cannot permit ourselves the luxury of being cruel to others -- it is upon ourselves, upon our flesh and our minds that we must exercise and indeed exorcise our terrors. The tyrant in us trembles; he must act, discharge his rage, take revenge; and it is upon ourselves that he does so. So decides the modesty of our condition. Amid our terrors, more than one of us evokes a Nero who, lacking an empire, would have had only his own conscience to persecute.
- E. M. Cioran, The Temptation to Exsist, pg 182
Thought it was applicable.
The latest news is that not one of the "terrorists" arrested had a plane ticket for yesterday, or in fact any imminent travel plans, and that one has already been released without charge. [1]
Please note that this comes one day after the Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, assumed power in Prime Minister Tony Blairs' holiday absence, in spite of a lengthy public campaign to highlight that he was unfit to hold office. The Prime Ministers response so far has been to strip him of all responsibility, leaving him with only "ceremonial" duties. Such as co-ordinating national security while Tony's in Barbados. [2]
It was also, coincidentally (!), the day that MP Jim Sheridan quit his defence post in protest at the governments' stance on the situation in the Middle East, and the circumvention of proper procedure on the part of the US authorities while refuelling aircraft in Scotland carrying weapons to Jewish Palestine. [3]
It was also, coincidentally (!), the day that one-quarter of the elected representatives of the British public (including over 100 members of the incumbent government) are threatening to revolt if Tony Blair does not curtail his holiday and recall Parliament. [4]
What with all these coincidences, the cynical among you might not be surprised to learn that Tony was briefed about it six weeks ago. And chatted to George about it on Sunday. And decided to do something about it on Thursday.[5]
If any uncaptured members of this terror cell are still in any doubt as to who among them is being held, and which aspects of the plot need to fall back to Plan B, please check the official list (including dates of birth and postal codes). Presumably this disclosure is suddenly standard procedure, and the established process of witholding potentially useful information from terrorists has been deprecated.[6]
--
I love freedom. The only thing that makes me feel secure is Tor.
that the terrorists were not attempting to smuggle liquid explosives on the plane, but rather SNAKES! Snakes on the mother f'ing plane!
If all devise with a digital clock would indicate a bogus time for about 1 second every minute.
Obviously at random intervals.
Or have it cycle through all the times as fast as it can once an hour.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The parent post isn't informative. It's racist.
Not all Arabs are Muslim. Not all Muslims are Terrorists. Given these are indisputable, what's the point of racial profiling? You must be saying that non-Arabs are uncoercable. That seems to be a lie on its face.
Here's a bar napkin terrorist plot for you: Given that airports are racially profiled, capture a number of rich looking white ladies (haha, see, terrorists can profile too). Maybe you'll pick them up in your taxis, but deliver them to the wrong place. Determine through violence which white ladies are controlable via collateral (children, husbands, parents) behead the rest (now rich, white ladies are afraid to get in taxis, it's a win-win). Send the white ladies to blow up planes with the explosive du jour (they won't be stopped or searched after all -- they don't meet the profile!). If they turn on you or fail, take their collateral to a crowded public space and martyr yourself (another win!). If they succeed and you're bored, martyr yourself in the airline security queue when you get profiled. (Quadruple-win?)
What happens when a successful attack is found out to be perpetrated by an African Muslim? Do we then start persecuting Africans?!
That's a joke, son. Whitey is already persecuting Blacks.
What would work better would be just be profilling everyone. Perhaps with some sort of massive surveilance aparatus: Cameras in public, Cameras in private, wiretaps, e-mail taps, national IDs with frequent regional check points, high-way tracking of vehicles, positional tracking of cell phones, etc. Of course we'd need a massive propaganda machine to make all of this palatable (maybe a mass media manipulated by the same corporations that manipulate the State itself).
Welcome to the United State of Paranoia.
To paraphrase Yes Minister: "Americans must be allowed to panic. They need activity. It is their substitute for living." Go and smell the roses, people.
I'm posting this from my treo in an airplane. we've just landed so cell phones are OK. anyway, the only thing banned on flights is liquids of all kinds (minus the exceptions). Only flights to the UK have restrictions on electronics. So don't worry about being without your laptop or phone unless you're flying to the UK. I imagine that the UK restrictions will be lifted when the threat has passed.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
> Why does the scapegoat have to be the common citizen?
Because the common citizen is too damn dumb to vote for a different
regime.
--
I know I'm ACing,;too damn dumb to change.
Thanks /.ers seem to think that the WEST is so evil lets make this discussion simpler for you simple minded folk. Lets take America out of the discussion.
Now here back on planet Earth, I would like to have a rational discussion. And since so many of you
Lets take a look at our fellow techie friends in India and Pakistan. Both have Nuclear Arms, Both are friendly to the west (The Pakistani Government helps in the War against Terorrism a lot, the latest foiled plot as good proof) BUT, Both want this piece of land called Kashmir. HINDUS keep bombing Pakistani subways killing hundreds of civilians. YET I have never heard of any MUSLIMS bombing Indian subways.... oh wait... ive go that backwards.... oops....
Next time you "conspiracy theorists" ("Loose Change" types) think to yourself that Islamo-fascism is a scam perpetrated by REPUBLICANS (of course democrats could do no evil), ask yourself, Why do ISLAMIC fascists keep bombing Indian CIVILIANS on SUBWAYS, killing hundreds of women and children, yet Hindus never bomb Pakistani civilians.... guess they are a fun loving bunch...
And for all you Islamo fascist lovers out there who think that they are just a mis understood bunch, here is a trivia question....
What country has a mountain range named the "HINDU SLAUGHTER" mountains?, which is still named that to this day...
Dont believe me? head over to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
From the link "the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue."
"The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Muslim Berber traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hind Kush, which means "Slayer of Hindus," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from Hind (India) die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow." TO THIS DAY you can check any map of Afghanistan and the good ole Hindu Slaughter mountains appear... Glad im not hindu, oh wait, Islamo Fascists want to kill all infidels... dam
OH and just so i dont get any WESTERN Islamo fascist supporters (lord only knows why they exist in such large numbers here in the US and in Europe) questioning my take on Kashmir here is the wikipedia article on the slaughter of Indian civilians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Kashmir
And for the lazy here is a brief list of the attacks:
Terrorist acts in Kasmir
Attack on Jammu & Kashmir State Assembly - A car bomb exploded near the Jammu and Kashmir State Assembly on October 1, 2001, killing 27 people on an attack that was blamed on Kashmiri separatists. It was one of the most prominent attacks against India apart from on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. No Kashmiri government official was killed or injured during the incident. [20]
Wandhama Massacre - In January 1998, 24 Kashmiri Pandits living in the city Wandhama were killed by Kashmiri Militants. According to the testimony of one of the survivors, the militants dressed themselves as officers of the Indian Army, entered their houses and then started firing blindly. The incident was significant because it coincided with former US president Bill Clinton's visit to India and New Delhi used the massacre to present a case against the alleged Pakistan-supported terrorism in Kashmir. [21]
Sangrampora Killings - On March 22, 1997, 7 Kashmiri Pandits were killed in Sangrampora village in the Budgam district. [22]
On October 1, 2001, a bombing at the Legislative Assembly in Srinagar killed 38. [23]
Qasim Nagar Attack - On July 13 2003, armed militants believed to be a part of the Lashkar-e-Toiba threw hand grenades at the Qasim Nagar market in Srinagar and then fired on civilians standing near
Thanks /.ers seem to think that the WEST is so evil lets make this discussion simpler for you simple minded folk. Lets take America out of the discussion.
Now here back on planet Earth, I would like to have a rational discussion. And since so many of you
Lets take a look at our fellow techie friends in India and Pakistan. Both have Nuclear Arms, Both are friendly to the west (The Pakistani Government helps in the War against Terorrism a lot, the latest foiled plot as good proof) BUT, Both want this piece of land called Kashmir. HINDUS keep bombing Pakistani subways killing hundreds of civilians. YET I have never heard of any MUSLIMS bombing Indian subways.... oh wait... ive go that backwards.... oops....
Next time you "conspiracy theorists" ("Loose Change" types) think to yourself that Islamo-fascism is a scam perpetrated by REPUBLICANS (of course democrats could do no evil), ask yourself, Why do ISLAMIC fascists keep bombing Indian CIVILIANS on SUBWAYS, killing hundreds of women and children, yet Hindus never bomb Pakistani civilians.... guess they are a fun loving bunch...
And for all you Islamo fascist lovers out there who think that they are just a mis understood bunch, here is a trivia question....
What country has a mountain range named the "HINDU SLAUGHTER" mountains?, which is still named that to this day...
Dont believe me? head over to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
From the link "the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue."
"The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Muslim Berber traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hind Kush, which means "Slayer of Hindus," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from Hind (India) die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow." TO THIS DAY you can check any map of Afghanistan and the good ole Hindu Slaughter mountains appear... Glad im not hindu, oh wait, Islamo Fascists want to kill all infidels... dam
OH and just so i dont get any WESTERN Islamo fascist supporters (lord only knows why they exist in such large numbers here in the US and in Europe) questioning my take on Kashmir here is the wikipedia article on the slaughter of Indian civilians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Kashmir
And for the lazy here is a brief list of the attacks:
Terrorist acts in Kasmir
Attack on Jammu & Kashmir State Assembly - A car bomb exploded near the Jammu and Kashmir State Assembly on October 1, 2001, killing 27 people on an attack that was blamed on Kashmiri separatists. It was one of the most prominent attacks against India apart from on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. No Kashmiri government official was killed or injured during the incident. [20]
Wandhama Massacre - In January 1998, 24 Kashmiri Pandits living in the city Wandhama were killed by Kashmiri Militants. According to the testimony of one of the survivors, the militants dressed themselves as officers of the Indian Army, entered their houses and then started firing blindly. The incident was significant because it coincided with former US president Bill Clinton's visit to India and New Delhi used the massacre to present a case against the alleged Pakistan-supported terrorism in Kashmir. [21]
Sangrampora Killings - On March 22, 1997, 7 Kashmiri Pandits were killed in Sangrampora village in the Budgam district. [22]
On October 1, 2001, a bombing at the Legislative Assembly in Srinagar killed 38. [23]
Qasim Nagar Attack - On July 13 2003, armed militants believed to be a part of the Lashkar-e-Toiba threw hand grenades at the Qasim Nagar market in Srinagar and then fired on civilians standing near
Thanks /.ers seem to think that the WEST is so evil lets make this discussion simpler for you simple minded folk. Lets take America out of the discussion.
I love the "more people die from X, so who cares if innocent civilians are slaughtered mid air" I mean hell they probably have Asthma
Now here back on planet Earth, I would like to have a rational discussion. And since so many of you
Lets take a look at our fellow techie friends in India and Pakistan. Both have Nuclear Arms, Both are friendly to the west (The Pakistani Government helps in the War against Terorrism a lot, the latest foiled plot as good proof) BUT, Both want this piece of land called Kashmir. HINDUS keep bombing Pakistani subways killing hundreds of civilians. YET I have never heard of any MUSLIMS bombing Indian subways.... oh wait... ive go that backwards.... oops....
Next time you "conspiracy theorists" ("Loose Change" types) think to yourself that Islamo-fascism is a scam perpetrated by REPUBLICANS (of course democrats could do no evil), ask yourself, Why do ISLAMIC fascists keep bombing Indian CIVILIANS on SUBWAYS, killing hundreds of women and children, yet Hindus never bomb Pakistani civilians.... guess they are a fun loving bunch...
And for all you Islamo fascist lovers out there who think that they are just a mis understood bunch, here is a trivia question....
What country has a mountain range named the "HINDU SLAUGHTER" mountains?, which is still named that to this day...
Dont believe me? head over to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
From the link "the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue."
"The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Muslim Berber traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hind Kush, which means "Slayer of Hindus," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from Hind (India) die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow." TO THIS DAY you can check any map of Afghanistan and the good ole Hindu Slaughter mountains appear... Glad im not hindu, oh wait, Islamo Fascists want to kill all infidels... dam
OH and just so i dont get any WESTERN Islamo fascist supporters (lord only knows why they exist in such large numbers here in the US and in Europe) questioning my take on Kashmir here is the wikipedia article on the slaughter of Indian civilians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Kashmir
And for the lazy here is a brief list of the attacks:
Terrorist acts in Kasmir
Attack on Jammu & Kashmir State Assembly - A car bomb exploded near the Jammu and Kashmir State Assembly on October 1, 2001, killing 27 people on an attack that was blamed on Kashmiri separatists. It was one of the most prominent attacks against India apart from on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. No Kashmiri government official was killed or injured during the incident. [20]
Wandhama Massacre - In January 1998, 24 Kashmiri Pandits living in the city Wandhama were killed by Kashmiri Militants. According to the testimony of one of the survivors, the militants dressed themselves as officers of the Indian Army, entered their houses and then started firing blindly. The incident was significant because it coincided with former US president Bill Clinton's visit to India and New Delhi used the massacre to present a case against the alleged Pakistan-supported terrorism in Kashmir. [21]
Sangrampora Killings - On March 22, 1997, 7 Kashmiri Pandits were killed in Sangrampora village in the Budgam district. [22]
On October 1, 2001, a bombing at the Legislative Assembly in Srinagar killed 38. [23]
Qasim Nagar Attack - On July 13 2003, armed militants believ
Thanks /.ers seem to think that the WEST is so evil lets make this discussion simpler for you simple minded folk. Lets take America out of the discussion.
Now here back on planet Earth, I would like to have a rational discussion. And since so many of you
Lets take a look at our fellow techie friends in India and Pakistan. Both have Nuclear Arms, Both are friendly to the west (The Pakistani Government helps in the War against Terorrism a lot, the latest foiled plot as good proof) BUT, Both want this piece of land called Kashmir [wikipedia.org]. HINDUS keep bombing Pakistani subways killing hundreds of civilians. YET I have never heard of any MUSLIMS bombing Indian subways.... oh wait... ive go that backwards.... oops....
Next time you "conspiracy theorists" ("Loose Change" types) think to yourself that Islamo-fascism is a scam perpetrated by REPUBLICANS (of course democrats could do no evil), ask yourself, Why do ISLAMIC fascists keep bombing Indian CIVILIANS on SUBWAYS, killing hundreds of women and children, yet Hindus never bomb Pakistani civilians.... guess they are a fun loving bunch...
And for all you Islamo fascist lovers out there who think that they are just a mis understood bunch, here is a trivia question....
What country has a mountain range named the "HINDU SLAUGHTER" mountains?, which is still named that to this day...
Dont believe me? head over to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush [wikipedia.org]
From the link "the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue."
"The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Muslim Berber traveller, Ibn Battta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hind Kush, which means "Slayer of Hindus," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from Hind (India) die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow." TO THIS DAY you can check any map of Afghanistan and the good ole Hindu Slaughter mountains appear... Glad im not hindu, oh wait, Islamo Fascists want to kill all infidels... dam
OH and just so i dont get any WESTERN Islamo fascist supporters (lord only knows why they exist in such large numbers here in the US and in Europe) questioning my take on Kashmir here is the wikipedia article on the slaughter of Indian civilians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Kashmi r [wikipedia.org]
And for the lazy here is a brief list of the attacks:
Terrorist acts in Kasmir
Attack on Jammu & Kashmir State Assembly - A car bomb exploded near the Jammu and Kashmir State Assembly on October 1, 2001, killing 27 people on an attack that was blamed on Kashmiri separatists. It was one of the most prominent attacks against India apart from on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. No Kashmiri government official was killed or injured during the incident. [20]
Wandhama Massacre - In January 1998, 24 Kashmiri Pandits living in the city Wandhama were killed by Kashmiri Militants. According to the testimony of one of the survivors, the militants dressed themselves as officers of the Indian Army, entered their houses and then started firing blindly. The incident was significant because it coincided with former US president Bill Clinton's visit to India and New Delhi used the massacre to present a case against the alleged Pakistan-supported terrorism in Kashmir. [21]
Sangrampora Killings - On March 22, 1997, 7 Kashmiri Pandits were killed in Sangrampora village in the Budgam district. [22]
On October 1, 2001, a bombing at the Legislative Assembly in Srinagar killed 38. [23]
Qasim Nagar Attack - On July 13 2003, armed militants believed to be a part of the Lashkar-e-Toiba threw hand grenades at the Qasim Nagar market in Srinagar and then fired on civilians standing nearby killing twenty-seven and injuring many
You could this "massive propaganda machine" the Ministry of Truth.
Sigh.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
Where is the evidence?
An investigation that likely involved hundreds, perhaps as many as a thousand people, with no leaks claiming otherwise, a martyrdom video made by one of the participants, explosives, etc.
Do you trust the sources?
Sure. You obviously don't, but as one who has at least some exposure to work in government, I have come to the realization that the government is indeed made of human beings. This bust, after all, was carried out by bureaucrats, not politicians.
Why would the bad guys NOT do a dramatic diversionary action, or even feign one? While really going for something else?
An interesting point, but one must consider their limited size and operating capacity. Very limited central control and the "cell" system further complicates the matter. Too many people would be aware of the main plot and the feint - it's safer, cheaper, quicker, and easier to plan just one operation.
Why does nobody with media clout ask the tough questions?
Watch a White House press briefing. You'll hear all kind of nonsense questions like the above batted around, but generally ignored because they are just that - nonsense.
(Usually anything controversial and with political overtones about the US or Israel is moderated down on Slashdot. Maybe this will be the exception?)
That seems to depend on which side you take. Generally, the further to the left you are, the more points you're modded up, although there are certainly exceptions to this rule. Oh, and you get bonus points for demanding that the time for revolution has come or arguing that preventing citizens from bringing toothpaste on a plane has somehow allowed the terrorists to win. Extra bonus if you can somehow tie Big Brother or DRM into those... hmmm.... DRM toothpaste...
I'd think that the NASA Moontapes are important to HUMAN history, not just American "We're the center of the universe" histrry only ;}
Gekido's Lair
Oh, I see...they are just more of "them brown people" so it doesn't matter it they are singled out and persecuted, does it?
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Has no one heard of the targetted hacks being conducted from China? Maybe a simple Google search would help.
Building 7 - Hmmmm No Plane Hit it but it crumbled in a perfect symmatry.
You're explanation is...
Apart from your "on my sleeve" obvious ideological stance, you have one VERY BIG flaw in the above argument:
Where is the evidence?
Your answer is very lacking. The only thing you mention that would fall in this category: The video. Has to be analyzed first by objective techs and actually tied to the individual and the plot. US rules of evidence are very complex and sometimes demanding. (Yes, I have a JD -YIHAJD? too close for comfort...lol)
Do you trust the sources?
I suppose nothing. I check everything. This is just a routine sanity check, should not be ideologically driven or presumed if you want good intel. (Side bar: Arm chair fun. If you work in the government you are dumbing down to hide your real nature or you no little about intel collection and analysis.)
---
No matter, hopefully soon we will see the courts handle all of this and we will see. (My non technical gut feeling: Bet ya a hundy that this whole thing was way overblown, and will be remembered that way by history in 50 years or less)
Now using your own tendencious language: A "fascist state" court (of any type of nation or culture) system would just ship the suspects off to a detention facility and keep the evidence classified.
---
Fun stuff:
As somewhat of a practiced linguist analyst myself: "ChePibe:" You must be from Argentina or are trying to pretend to be somehow related? Correct?
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Sadly, I have no time to respond to the above points at the moment, but I lived in Argentina for two years (and picked up one serious porteño accent) and got so used to being called that I figured, "hey, why not use it for a handle online?" Thus I became Che Pibe. In any case, it was better than some of the more colorful porteño options... I spent a lot of time in the villas... What's your relation to Argentina?
I love the "more people die from X, so who cares if innocent civilians are slaughtered mid air" I mean hell they probably have Asthma /.ers seem to think that the WEST is so evil lets make this discussion simpler for you simple minded folk.
Now here back on planet Earth, I would like to have a rational discussion. And since so many of you
[500 remaining unread lines deleted, mostly racist crap about Muslims, it looks like]
You know, if you work this hard on a rant, you shouldn't repel your readers in the first paragraph with a straw man attack and a counterargument supported only by an ad-hominem ("Now here back on planet Earth", etc.) Since nobody on Slashdot has ever said "the west is so evil", I had to assume you're some crazy person spouting nonsense and I stopped reading your post after this. I hope you didn't spend too long on it.
Do you like living without any logic whatsoever? Most conservative ACs seem to.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Bet ya a hundy that this whole thing was way overblown, and will be remembered that way by history in 50 years or less
Ahh, but in the next couple of months it may get a lot of neo-conservatives re-elected.
Can you point out some of my Racist comments at least please?
Calling someone a Racist is a pretty lofty charge...
Bush has done nothing to make us safer, and has actually made us LESS safe. The Brits and Pakistan foiled this plot, not Bush. So his record on terror remains deplorable. Sure, you can say nothing has happened since 9-11. But that could have been said the day before 9-11. It's a meaningless claim. The proof is in the glaring failure to prevent or respond to 9-11, in the Dubai Ports deal, and in the poor emergency response after Katrina--we ain't ready for a terrorist attack. Whose fault is that?
I also think it's cute how you are so thoroughly brainwashed that you use the vocabulary of the right wing. It's like you're a pet parrot or something, capable of spewing certain terms, but incabable of reasoning. You use terms like "Islamo-fascist." Clearly a person who is easily programmed.
You act like Pakistan is just great, but their government is run by a despot who took over in a military coup, and there are plenty of radicals throughout the country. Another shift in the balance of power could turn that ally into a nuclear radical Islamist power.
Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source. The etymology of Hindu Kush is actually a mystery. It's not even known from which language the term is derived. There's quite a bit of evidence that Kush meant something like "peak" long ago (the definition to which you refer is modern Persian). There are several similar geological structures in the area having Kush in their names. It probably just means "Mountains of India."
However, all of this is a digression. What's your point? Your post is a complete nonsequitur. I was pointing out that it's stupid to celebrate the fact that we are at risk. It's stupid to accept that this threat should involve handing over freedoms to the government without question and debate. And you respond talking about Pakistan. Let me tell you this--If our safety hinges upon Pakistan providing us intelligence, we are in a dire state. We simply cannot count on such intelligence being provided all the time and forever.
Then you start addressing conspiracy theorists. This is what forensicists call a "Straw Man."
But hey, since you mentioned it, maybe I should point something out about India and terrorism. Remember that mass murder terrorist attack that just happened in India? What did India do differently in response to that devastating attack than we did in response to 9-11? They are investigating the crime and attempting to bring the perpetrators to justice. WE, OTOH, went after a country which supplied NONE of the conspirators or financing for 9-11, in Iraq.
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
America is moving towards facism, a police state...very rapidly indeed, and that is a very worrying...very scary thought...more than even terrorism. I fear also that there are many people who need to grow a brain...too many... Intelligence is a commodity that appears to be in short supply...
Building 7,
e ories#7_World_Trade_Center
Where no one had died....
This points to the government orchestrating 9/11 how?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_th
Opponents to the controlled demolition theory recognize testimony provided by firefighters and EMT personnel about the severity of the damage to 7 WTC. Firefighters used transits to determine whether there was any movement in the structure and were surprised to discover that it was, in fact, moving. [77] A collapse zone was set up at that time, and 7 WTC collapsed about an hour and a half later at 5:20 p.m..
New York Fire Department personnel on the scene described the damage inflicted to the south face of WTC 7. Several statements were given by firefighters and other first responders emphasizing the critical condition of Building Seven. [78] The FEMA report provides a timeline of the collapse and photographs of the major events leading up to it. Mechanical penthouses are shown to have collapsed in succession during a 30-second window before the building itself collapsed. The east mechanical penthouse is shown to collapse first. Photographs also show a visible "kink" in the east side of the roofline as the building fell.
Sorry I had not really read your post...
l er
I am actually not a republican, but you wouldnt be able to know that from my post, so I forgive you
>Yes, cheer as our country is scared into totalitarianism. That's just great. You're the type of idiot that would have followed the sheep into fascism in Nazi Germany after the staged bombing of the Reichstag. Grow a brain.
Callign me a sheep eh? No I am the type of Idiot that would have wanted to go fight the Nazi Regime, your the type of person, I'll leave out the name calling, that would have wanted to appease hitler and prevent us from joining WW2 sooner saving millions of Jews...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement_of_Hit
We are fighting against forces that want to exterminate the Jews, just as the Middle East has wanted for a long time now.
Also your blind Republican hatred, I hate them too btw, but equally I hate liberals as well, I am a libertarian btw, leads you to ignore some facts about Iraq prior to the Iraq war, I cannot blame you, the Western Liberal Media Agrees with you:
> WE, OTOH, went after a country which supplied NONE of the conspirators or financing for 9-11, in Iraq.
I agree, Iraq had little to do with 9/11, I do not agree however that Hussein should have not been toppled,:
From the 1990s, U.S. officials have constantly voiced concerns about ties between the government of Saddam Hussein and terrorist activities, notably in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Through the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), Saddam had offered $10,000 USD for families of "civilians killed during Israeli military operations" and, $25,000 USD for "families of suicide bombers."[30]
I actually agree with you on some statements, and I too hate this republican administration, equally as much as i hate liberals, I am not the one who is brainwashed into one party or another, I can critize them both equally:
> Several terrorist plots were foiled under Clinton's watch (such as the attempted bombing of the Holland Tunnel) but of course he didn't dislocate his shoulder trying to pat himself on the back or hold any press conferences or anything as this administration no doubt would.
Several have been foiled under Bush's watch too and several have been not foiled under both Presidents watch, 9/11, USS COLE, 1993 WTC bombing etc....
To be honest I am sure if you and I met and discussed all of this we would agree on a lot, except I hold Republicans and Democrats EQUALLY at fault for our current issues. I just feel as a libertarian perhaps conservatives may do a better job, this however can be debated and I agree it can be debated since the Iraq war has been poorly orchestrated.
>I also think it's cute how you are so thoroughly brainwashed that you use the vocabulary of the right wing. It's like you're a pet parrot or something, capable of spewing certain terms, but incabable of reasoning. You use terms like "Islamo-fascist." Clearly a person who is easily programmed.
I hold no blind love for either party, and that is what disturbs me about the current trend in the US, we are currently in the fight of our generation, I grew up in very blue state with very blue parents and I see what the polarization of American has led too, Extremely rapid conservatives and liberals all ignoring each other parties faults, All what I was trying to do with my India and Pakistan arguement was remove America from the debate so we can discuss a non partisan issue, hindu/muslim civilians being killed in India by Islamo Fascist terrorists. Why does me calling terrorists, Which I am sure we can both agree are bad people, fascists disturb people??
Also for disclosure I am of hindu descent..
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
Could you point me out to the translation of the Quran that you are quoting from? I've been wanting to read the Quran or some kind of annotated version for a while now, and if I can find the version you're referring to it'd be great.
We could all do with a bit of (correct) knowledge about other cultures.
Thanks.
All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!