I was even more convinced by your appeal to ethical subroutines in our heads. This method is very effective in arguing with us, but it would have no effect what so ever if you were arguing against something unconstituional being lobbied by Walt Disney Inc.;-)
Furthermore, I wonder how the world would have been like, if your idea were implemented (i.e. in an ideal world). There are hundreds of works inspired by the works of other artists and the inspiration being not clearly defined from stealing, the legal system has only one choice: to consider it as stealing. The other artist, by the way, may or may not be harmed by the offending artist.
Fortunately, or, unfortunately (I think both), we don't live in an ideal world.
Thank you for understanding, Thank you 2003-05-02 20:41:58 UTC (2003-05-02 16:41:58 EDT)
[Clarification: I am posting it at the danger of being attacked, but my puny brain cannot comprehend it as it is. Please help.]
If their code is secret, it means they could put whatever they want in there now and claim that it was there from the very beginning. Who knows when that particular piece of code was placed there. 20 years ago? Yesterday? Or just before they go to court to present the evidence?
I am not saying that they are lying, but how can one be sure. If there are ways to make sure that it is, please enlighten us.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-05-02 20:25:51 UTC (2003-05-02 16:25:51 EDT)
jvervloet provided a link to the Debian page that answers your question. The following is the relevant part. Just in case (I miss stuff a lot).
Not everybody likes the *BSD ports tree or the *BSD userland (this is a personal preference thing, rather than any sort of comment on quality). Linux distributions have been produced which provide *BSD style ports or a *BSD style userland for those who like the BSD user environment but also wish to use the Linux kernel - Debian GNU/NetBSD is the logical reverse of this, allowing people who like the GNU userland or a Linux-style packaging system to use the NetBSD kernel.
In other words, I suppose it means: some people like 'linux userland' but not the 'linux kernel'.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-29 15:50:03 UTC (2003-04-29 11:50:03-EDT)
The Debian guys are porting NetBSD (for x86 and alpha) and FreeBSD (for x86) for use with their existing Deiban system. Since both these are in their early stages the pages contain not much detailed information.
Any comments or enlightening information would be great.
A couple of more specific questions:
Is it a joint project by FreeBSD and Debian teams?
The Debian is basing their efforts on the already established ports of various applications on *BSD. eg. see the following from Debian's NetBSD based distribuition's information pages:
...Debian GNU/NetBSD does not exist in order to provide extra software......the *BSD ports trees are already comprehensive...
Does this mean that we could expect to see more such efforts?
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-28 21:01:19 UTC (2003-04-28 17:01:19 EDT)
...so I think that they are not violating the liscense.
It seems that way, but... (there is always this 'but')
I read through the LuxuriosityPhoto web-pages and could not find any reference to the original web-page (at http://www.gimp.org) or the original licence (GPL et.al.).
Even if he/she/it is not violating the letter and/or spirit of the licence, isn't it considered part of normal human behaviour to give a little, to the original maintainers
Yes he does mention its original author from the time of his college days, but the package he is using has been refined and improved greatly by the GIMP team. It would have been okey if he is selling the original version --I don't think so, The 1.1+ version are a 'quantum' leap over 1.0 releases, so just imagine using the original release.
I know that slashdotters are generally anti-RMS and anti-GPL, but GPL did contribute to the open-source movement --this is probably an under-statement.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-26 01:42:10 UTC (2003-04-25 21:42:10 EDT)
NASA could get back into the picture if they decided to help independents rather than try to run the whole damned show.
True. But only after someone gets the X-Prize, since involvement of NASA would probably disqualify them from the competition. This does not apply if you don't care about the XPrize. (Keep in mind that the XPrize is not just about the prize money, but super duper publicity and prestige.)
By the way, NASA might most probably help whoever wins the XPrize, at least to make sure that they could get their name in the action, and in any case would be mutually beneficial.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-26 01:09:04 UTC (2003-04-25 21:09:04 EDT)
If one doesn't want DRM...
on
Linus on DRM
·
· Score: 1
Pardon my ignorance, but if one is really concerned about DRM being intrusive, isn't it possible to not enable it say by not signing the binary kernel that one compiles, or if there are enough people, couldn't one form a 'fork' or something of the kernel that doesn't use DRM extensions.
There are others such as
VMS or Mac OS9 that have no connection to System V or Redmond...
I read the history of Microsoft NT somewhere and according to it, NT's base is practically a re-implementation of VMS in C (VMS was written in VAX assembly). Something about Microsoft 'buying' the original team that wrote VMS.
Please don't take this as a hard fact. It is just from my memory and human memory, due to the nature of its storage, is likely to get muddled up. If it is so, please pardon me.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-24 02:43:57 UTC (2003-04-23 22:43:57 EDT)
Yet when MS talks about "trusted" computing... But when it's Linux, oh man, don't say anything bad about it, despite the buffer overflows and everything.
The main gripes about Microsoft's 'trusted' computing were about:
Their attitude, especially since they do not give any choice but to trust them blindly
Denial of 'the buffer overflows and everything' that do exist. As someone pointed out earlier, number of security problems found and patches released does not necessarily indicate security or the lack of it.
And, of course, their definition of 'trusted' computing.
Disclaimer: I am not in the security business, and all these are based on stuff I heard on Slashdot etc.
Thank you GrimReality 2003-04-21 20:21:22 UTC (2003-04-21 16:21:22 EDT)
Use it like write back cache.. or write through. Your choice. Less chance of loss, eh?
But this does not seem to be behaving like a cache, rather according the description, the metadata and small files are stored only on the volatile RAM. In this case write-back/write-through may not be applicable.
Maybe, I misunderstood it, but the description said that the disk is for storing large files only!
Furthermore, doesn't hard-drives already have some form of cache. So this has to be a different system.
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-21 16:59:33 UTC (2003-04-21 12:59:33 EDT)
Pardon my ignorance, but what happens if the battery fails? Of course, this is highly unlikely, but just a scenario.
In a conventional disk the data would remain even if power is switched off, but a RAM would lose the data (or get corrupted or cannot be sure if the data is exactly the same).
Thank you. GrimReality 2003-04-21 15:51:18 UTC (2003-04-21 11:51:18 EDT)
I'm of the opinion that if the voice doesn't sound British, they're wasting everyone's time.
I am going to use my favourite excuse here --historical reasons.
There are some things that gets the 'cool' label and are stuck with it --for good or bad. Consider this as a form of stereotype.
This is probably the same reason why activity X is considered 'extra cool' if done by a person of Y descent.
Just to clarify any doubts, I am not against using British/Irish voices for English audio books. In fact, I think they are pretty cool, especially if it is a comedy; here I go again, stereotyping people, I should better remove the log from my eye before trying remove the speck from others'.:-)
Ideally, I suppose, books by authors from region X should be read by someone with an X-type accent; to sound authentic:-)
GrimReality 2003-04-21 15:14:58 UTC (2003-04-21 11:14:58 EDT)
When I think of audio books, I usually think of a human reader... not a computer - a human tends to be more accurate, esp. with languages like english
True. However, have you considered the cost of making audio recordings of books?
Another interesting note would be that audio books tend to use abridged versions for historical reasons --the size of audio-tape cartridges. This may or maynot be the case now, but even newer recordings seem to be done this way. With automated text-to-speech this problem could be overcome pretty easily, I suppose
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-04-21 15:04:47 UTC (2003-04-21 11:04:47 EDT)
I am not sure about how the closed-source software is checked for copyright infringement. Please enlighten us.
What if Microsoft Windows code has stuff stolen from other places. The closed source system that has so far protected it (if there are any stolen code at all) won't protect it anymore.
Of course they could simply delet those parts, but still just curious
Pardon my ignorance regarding closed-source source-code management. I do not mean to accuse Microsoft with stealing code. Just a scenario, since no one else sees the code, isn't it possible?
Thank you
GrimReality 2003-03-22 16:45:39 UTC (2003-03-22 11:45:39 EST)
But it was worth the switch to get apt-get. (if they would only update the packages)
Debian does update packages. (Slackware and Debian used to have the distinction of usually having packages ready first; the proliferation of rpm based systems seems to have changed that though.)
The catch is that both distributions, especially Debian, puts them in 'unstable' or 'beta' for pretty long. Debian even went as far as to give the name 'Sid' to their 'unstable' section (remember Sid, the toy-breaking, evil kid from ToyStory).
Disclaimer: I use Debian (RedHat was the first one I used and I did have a sojourn with Mandrake). I haven't used Slackware, but my new computer will have Slackware pre-installed (when it arrives).
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-03-21 02:32:29 UTC (2003-03-20 21:32:29 EST)
it is ok to con the PPV channel.
it is ok to con the music industry
it is ok to con Microsoft by copying all their software (for those of you who use it)
but when someone else (other article some time ago) violates the GPL by not opening their code, you rant and rave about 'theft'.
[Please read the whole post before jumping to conclusions.]
On the contrary no one who is true to GPL and similar licences (good examples are ESR and RMS) will ever condone warez. One should also note that:
GPL guys want people to use GPLed software not closed source, warez or not.
You should also take note that those who says it is okey to con PPV, music industry and Microsoft are probably not the same people who were crying 'theft' over GPL violation.
If you [Not about Interfacer, but those who supports warez] think you are harming Microsoft by pirating, stop right now. (In any case piracy is bad) Using pirated Microsoft software is not going to hurt Microsoft --infact, it is of great advantage to Microsoft, especially in the long run. (This does not apply to smaller software firms selling closed source software as they would probably go bankrupt overnight).
Most of the qualms about BSA raids is not about illegal software, but about legal users and how these bullying tactics affects them.
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-03-19 21:26:11 UTC (2003-03-19 16:26:11 EST)
Re:RMS is a terrorist
on
RMS Turns 50
·
· Score: 0
The following is a joke. Please don't take it seriously. Since he made such a big argument I suppose it is okey to make some jokes using some words from his post.
Here are a few variants of a clich by different people.
One man's terrorist is another man's tsirorret. I guess it is not a palindrome.
One man's editor is another man's operating system.
One man's constant is another man's variable.
-- A.J. Perlis
One man's terrorist is another man's something else. Well, I give up.
Thank you for reading this nonsense.
Grim Reality 2003-03-17 00:19:13 UTC (2003-03-16 19:19:13 EST)
P.S.:
The questions remain the same. The answers are eternally variable.
--Anonymous
Re:not gnu
on
RMS Turns 50
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Before saying something, I have to say that I am a Linus, RMS and Eric fan --believe it or not-- inspite of all the radically different viewpoints each of the three has. So don't think that I am supporting any one group.
Here are a few points that I would like to clarify:
As others would have already pointed out, the GNU people do not want credit for Linux.
One might also note that GNU is not a very marketing friendly name --well most FSF names aren't since they were made by, using Slashdot terms, 'nerds' for 'nerds'. So is Linus, but he happened to give a really cool name and a really cute mascot. Compare this to the gnu head of FSF.
In fact, it is the name 'Linux', although unintentionally, that has eclipsed GNU efforts, thanks mostly to commercial distributions.
In a loose sense, Linus Torvalds is also one of the 'GNU people'. Of course one can argue otherwise on technicality, especially, since Linus himself has used the term 'GNU people' in the sense that he did not belong to it.
Okey, I agree I am being a toady and humbug,
but hey, I am not as smart as you guys --show some pity on your inferior.
Thank you.
Grim Reality 2003-03-17 00:09:24 UTC (2003-03-16 19:09:24 EST)
I have been using Mozilla and its variants on GNU/Linux and Windows for some time.
The rendering is pretty good and of course supports standards. However, one thing that does not seem to have been changed (at least in Mozilla and Phoenix) is the startup-behaviour.
To make it clear, let me point to an example:
I open a PDF file with acroread. Then I open another file or start acroread (by clicking the configured button). In Windows the new file is opened in the same window and in GNU/Linux in a new window. The same goes with GMC etc.
Now, if I did the same with Mozilla, it would ask me to select a different profile instead of opening a new window using the currently running browser.
Starting with a new profile should be an option, say by providing a command-line argument.
Also, I am not talking about easy profile switching, for it seems to be in the next Mozilla release.
I was wondering if anyone has felt the same way.
Pardon me, for my knowldege is not perfect.
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-03-10 18:46:29 UTC (2003-03-10 13:46:29 EST)
I am using Debian Woody 3.0r0 with, I suppose, some security fixes (that apt downloads automatically) from 3.0r1.
I use a wierd on-board audio/video card (i810 DC100) that has works well only with 2.4. So, after installation of 2.2x kernel, I compiled and installed 2.4.x kernel using 'Doing it the Debian way' instructions provided with the source. Now X and sound works, although I don't have an NIC card or laptop so I can't say much about it.
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-03-10 03:56:15 UTC (2003-03-09 22:56:15 EST)
I am not sure if using farm byproducts to produce electricity is new, since I have heard of similar ones before (in documentaries).
There have been projects in the third world countries such as India, where many villages do not have electricity and are too far to get LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) supplied to them. They collect cow-dung or other manure in large tanks and then use the methane collected to fuel a generator or (more often for individul farms, use the methan directly for lighting lamps or stoves)
In the Netherlands (Holland) --or maybe it is another Scandinavian country, I saw this documentary more than 3 year ago-- they did something very similar except that it was with excess vegetable matter. And this powered a small town not just a farm (well, maybe this farm might be a really large one, in that case I disregard the comment).
Please pardon my ignorance, if I have said something stupid above.
Thank you.
GrimReality 2003-03-09 23:55:59 UTC (2003-03-09 18:55:59 EST)
Slashdot Mirror
I have to agree with you on a logical basis.
I was even more convinced by your appeal to ethical subroutines in our heads. This method is very effective in arguing with us, but it would have no effect what so ever if you were arguing against something unconstituional being lobbied by Walt Disney Inc. ;-)
Furthermore, I wonder how the world would have been like, if your idea were implemented (i.e. in an ideal world). There are hundreds of works inspired by the works of other artists and the inspiration being not clearly defined from stealing, the legal system has only one choice: to consider it as stealing. The other artist, by the way, may or may not be harmed by the offending artist.
Fortunately, or, unfortunately (I think both), we don't live in an ideal world.
Thank you for understanding,
Thank you
2003-05-02 20:41:58 UTC (2003-05-02 16:41:58 EDT)
[-10x10^128 Overrated]
[Clarification: I am posting it at the danger of being attacked, but my puny brain cannot comprehend it as it is. Please help.]
If their code is secret, it means they could put whatever they want in there now and claim that it was there from the very beginning. Who knows when that particular piece of code was placed there. 20 years ago? Yesterday? Or just before they go to court to present the evidence?
I am not saying that they are lying, but how can one be sure. If there are ways to make sure that it is, please enlighten us.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-05-02 20:25:51 UTC (2003-05-02 16:25:51 EDT)
jvervloet provided a link to the Debian page that answers your question. The following is the relevant part. Just in case (I miss stuff a lot).
In other words, I suppose it means: some people like 'linux userland' but not the 'linux kernel'.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-29 15:50:03 UTC (2003-04-29 11:50:03-EDT)
The Debian guys are porting NetBSD (for x86 and alpha) and FreeBSD (for x86) for use with their existing Deiban system. Since both these are in their early stages the pages contain not much detailed information.
Any comments or enlightening information would be great.
A couple of more specific questions:
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-28 21:01:19 UTC (2003-04-28 17:01:19 EDT)
It seems that way, but... (there is always this 'but')
I read through the LuxuriosityPhoto web-pages and could not find any reference to the original web-page (at http://www.gimp.org) or the original licence (GPL et.al.).
Even if he/she/it is not violating the letter and/or spirit of the licence, isn't it considered part of normal human behaviour to give a little, to the original maintainers
Yes he does mention its original author from the time of his college days, but the package he is using has been refined and improved greatly by the GIMP team. It would have been okey if he is selling the original version --I don't think so, The 1.1+ version are a 'quantum' leap over 1.0 releases, so just imagine using the original release.
I know that slashdotters are generally anti-RMS and anti-GPL, but GPL did contribute to the open-source movement --this is probably an under-statement.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-26 01:42:10 UTC (2003-04-25 21:42:10 EDT)
True. But only after someone gets the X-Prize, since involvement of NASA would probably disqualify them from the competition. This does not apply if you don't care about the XPrize. (Keep in mind that the XPrize is not just about the prize money, but super duper publicity and prestige.)
By the way, NASA might most probably help whoever wins the XPrize, at least to make sure that they could get their name in the action, and in any case would be mutually beneficial.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-26 01:09:04 UTC (2003-04-25 21:09:04 EDT)
Pardon my ignorance, but if one is really concerned about DRM being intrusive, isn't it possible to not enable it say by not signing the binary kernel that one compiles, or if there are enough people, couldn't one form a 'fork' or something of the kernel that doesn't use DRM extensions.
I beg you to pardon my ignorance.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-24 19:27:51UTC (2003-04-24 15:27:51-0400)
I read the history of Microsoft NT somewhere and according to it, NT's base is practically a re-implementation of VMS in C (VMS was written in VAX assembly). Something about Microsoft 'buying' the original team that wrote VMS.
Please don't take this as a hard fact. It is just from my memory and human memory, due to the nature of its storage, is likely to get muddled up. If it is so, please pardon me.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-24 02:43:57 UTC (2003-04-23 22:43:57 EDT)
The main gripes about Microsoft's 'trusted' computing were about:
Disclaimer: I am not in the security business, and all these are based on stuff I heard on Slashdot etc.
Thank you
GrimReality
2003-04-21 20:21:22 UTC (2003-04-21 16:21:22 EDT)
But this does not seem to be behaving like a cache, rather according the description, the metadata and small files are stored only on the volatile RAM. In this case write-back/write-through may not be applicable.
Maybe, I misunderstood it, but the description said that the disk is for storing large files only!
Furthermore, doesn't hard-drives already have some form of cache. So this has to be a different system.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-21 16:59:33 UTC (2003-04-21 12:59:33 EDT)
Pardon my ignorance, but what happens if the battery fails? Of course, this is highly unlikely, but just a scenario.
In a conventional disk the data would remain even if power is switched off, but a RAM would lose the data (or get corrupted or cannot be sure if the data is exactly the same).
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-21 15:51:18 UTC (2003-04-21 11:51:18 EDT)
I am going to use my favourite excuse here --historical reasons.
There are some things that gets the 'cool' label and are stuck with it --for good or bad. Consider this as a form of stereotype.
This is probably the same reason why activity X is considered 'extra cool' if done by a person of Y descent.
Just to clarify any doubts, I am not against using British/Irish voices for English audio books. In fact, I think they are pretty cool, especially if it is a comedy; here I go again, stereotyping people, I should better remove the log from my eye before trying remove the speck from others'. :-)
Ideally, I suppose, books by authors from region X should be read by someone with an X-type accent; to sound authentic :-)
GrimReality
2003-04-21 15:14:58 UTC (2003-04-21 11:14:58 EDT)
True. However, have you considered the cost of making audio recordings of books?
Another interesting note would be that audio books tend to use abridged versions for historical reasons --the size of audio-tape cartridges. This may or maynot be the case now, but even newer recordings seem to be done this way. With automated text-to-speech this problem could be overcome pretty easily, I suppose
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-21 15:04:47 UTC (2003-04-21 11:04:47 EDT)
Isn't this about the time the events in the StarTrek universe takes place?
GrimReality
2003-04-17 19:06:47 UTC (2003-04-17 15:06:47-0400)
Just some 'food for thought':
If Open-Source/Free Software is inferior to commericial software, have you considered the situation if Open-Source/Free Software didn't exist at all?
Would everyone be satisfied because GNU/Linux, *BSD etc. are not there to bother them with lack of support?
Would everyone be happy because you will only be able to talk to a sweet-talking paid employee, and not have to deal with 'screaming geeks'?
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-04-06 19:03:02 UTC (2003-04-06 15:03:02 EDT)
I am not sure about how the closed-source software is checked for copyright infringement. Please enlighten us.
What if Microsoft Windows code has stuff stolen from other places. The closed source system that has so far protected it (if there are any stolen code at all) won't protect it anymore.
Of course they could simply delet those parts, but still just curious
Pardon my ignorance regarding closed-source source-code management. I do not mean to accuse Microsoft with stealing code. Just a scenario, since no one else sees the code, isn't it possible?
Thank you
GrimReality
2003-03-22 16:45:39 UTC (2003-03-22 11:45:39 EST)
Dear Anonymous Coward,
No one is stopping you. Keep calling them hackers.
On the other hand you could show some respect to those who have contributed a lot to the open-source world, and use the proper word.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-22 14:41:45 UTC (2003-03-22 09:41:45 EST)
Debian does update packages. (Slackware and Debian used to have the distinction of usually having packages ready first; the proliferation of rpm based systems seems to have changed that though.)
The catch is that both distributions, especially Debian, puts them in 'unstable' or 'beta' for pretty long. Debian even went as far as to give the name 'Sid' to their 'unstable' section (remember Sid, the toy-breaking, evil kid from ToyStory).
Disclaimer: I use Debian (RedHat was the first one I used and I did have a sojourn with Mandrake). I haven't used Slackware, but my new computer will have Slackware pre-installed (when it arrives).
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-21 02:32:29 UTC (2003-03-20 21:32:29 EST)
I didn't know bugs were considered a delicay by worms. At least not enough to attract them.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-20 02:14:42 UTC (2003-03-19 21:14:42 EST)
Interfacer (560564) wrote:
[Please read the whole post before jumping to conclusions.]
On the contrary no one who is true to GPL and similar licences (good examples are ESR and RMS) will ever condone warez. One should also note that:
Most of the qualms about BSA raids is not about illegal software, but about legal users and how these bullying tactics affects them.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-19 21:26:11 UTC (2003-03-19 16:26:11 EST)
The following is a joke. Please don't take it seriously. Since he made such a big argument I suppose it is okey to make some jokes using some words from his post.
Here are a few variants of a clich by different people.
Thank you for reading this nonsense.
Grim Reality
2003-03-17 00:19:13 UTC (2003-03-16 19:19:13 EST)
P.S.:
Before saying something, I have to say that I am a Linus, RMS and Eric fan --believe it or not-- inspite of all the radically different viewpoints each of the three has. So don't think that I am supporting any one group.
Here are a few points that I would like to clarify:
Okey, I agree I am being a toady and humbug, but hey, I am not as smart as you guys --show some pity on your inferior.
Thank you.
Grim Reality
2003-03-17 00:09:24 UTC (2003-03-16 19:09:24 EST)
I have been using Mozilla and its variants on GNU/Linux and Windows for some time.
The rendering is pretty good and of course supports standards. However, one thing that does not seem to have been changed (at least in Mozilla and Phoenix) is the startup-behaviour.
To make it clear, let me point to an example:
I open a PDF file with acroread. Then I open another file or start acroread (by clicking the configured button). In Windows the new file is opened in the same window and in GNU/Linux in a new window. The same goes with GMC etc.
Now, if I did the same with Mozilla, it would ask me to select a different profile instead of opening a new window using the currently running browser.
Starting with a new profile should be an option, say by providing a command-line argument.
Also, I am not talking about easy profile switching, for it seems to be in the next Mozilla release.
I was wondering if anyone has felt the same way.
Pardon me, for my knowldege is not perfect.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-10 18:46:29 UTC (2003-03-10 13:46:29 EST)
I am using Debian Woody 3.0r0 with, I suppose, some security fixes (that apt downloads automatically) from 3.0r1.
I use a wierd on-board audio/video card (i810 DC100) that has works well only with 2.4. So, after installation of 2.2x kernel, I compiled and installed 2.4.x kernel using 'Doing it the Debian way' instructions provided with the source. Now X and sound works, although I don't have an NIC card or laptop so I can't say much about it.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-10 03:56:15 UTC (2003-03-09 22:56:15 EST)
I am not sure if using farm byproducts to produce electricity is new, since I have heard of similar ones before (in documentaries).
Please pardon my ignorance, if I have said something stupid above.
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-09 23:55:59 UTC (2003-03-09 18:55:59 EST)